[00:53] <brousch> Atwater Decadent Dark Chocolate Ale FTW
[00:54] <brousch> It smells like hot chocolate
[01:23] <snap-l> Had a Double Cream Porter at the Royal Oak Brewery.
[01:30] <brousch> I had a Dark Horse Too Cream Stout. It was gross
[02:27] <brousch> geekers https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/issue/140/pip-install-pygame-fails-on-ubuntu-1204
[02:39] <snap-l> brousch: I have never used pygame in virtualenv. I use the packages.
[10:23] <brousch> snap-l: barbaric
[11:09] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:09] <rick_h_> party
[12:45] <rick_h_> lmao http://goo.gl/RJrci
[12:45] <rick_h_> anyone have an S3? I want to test something out :P
[12:48] <brousch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/1055766
[12:51] <rick_h_> no one uses gnome terminal :P
[12:52] <rick_h_> man, can we please send this bug submitter to a conference I'm also at? grrrr people
[12:52] <brousch> So you can hug him and buy him a beer?
[12:53] <rick_h_> oh yea...definitely
[13:03] <dzho> I love that bug.
[13:03] <dzho> I should submit an "affects me too"
[13:03] <dzho> rick_h_: which conference?
[13:03] <dzho> anyone hitting olf later this week, for instance?
[13:04] <rick_h_> dzho: just talking smack
[13:04] <rick_h_> not making OLF this year but some people are
[13:04] <dzho> oh, darn.  I was hoping for the beer part of that, at least.
[13:04] <dzho> ;-)
[13:06] <snap-l> I'm attending OLF
[13:06] <dzho> cool.
[13:06] <dzho> I think I met you and rick_h_ last year.
[13:06] <dzho> this way, maybe I'll be able to learn which nick goes with whom.
[13:07] <brousch> snap-l has hair on his head. rick_h_ has hair on his face
[13:07] <rick_h_> yea, snap-l and I ran a Lococast booth last year
[13:08] <rick_h_> and had some michigan loco stuff
[13:08] <snap-l> dzho: Beware my natural tendencies to screw with people.
[13:08] <snap-l> brousch: not for long
[13:08] <snap-l> If i have hair on my face, it's because the stuff on top jumped ship
[13:09] <dzho> snap-l: this is IRC, isn't it?  I think that kind of caution is pretty much default setting.
[13:10] <snap-l> heh
[13:11] <dzho> but, still, confirmation is always nice, thanks!
[16:49] <rick_h_> blackberry fun http://www.androidcentral.com/can-t-believe-all-your-former-blackberry-users-left-behind
[16:50] <rick_h_> took a little break from work to do a nice music video for their devs, how sweet
[16:58] <greg-g> I kind of find that gnome-terminal bug funny :)
[16:59] <greg-g> even sabdfl had a sense of humor about it
[17:00] <brousch> ohmy http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/google_maps_on_ios6/
[17:05] <greg-g> rick_h_: btw, was that your first LP blog post?
[17:05] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I think so
[17:05] <rick_h_> what's cool is that it was my project I picked to do/start on back in Jan after I'd been there all of 2 months.
[17:05] <rick_h_> so kind of my baby
[17:05] <greg-g> awesome, well done sir
[17:06] <rick_h_> well hopefully there's some more snap for some of you guys
[17:06] <rick_h_> not going to change the world, but should be slightly noticable
[17:07] <snap-l> brousch: That's a non-story re: Google iOS maps
[17:07]  * greg-g doesn't do much LP stuff anymore
[17:07] <greg-g> my days of bug triaging are effectively over
[17:07] <snap-l> They didn't say they wouldn't, they said they have no plans
[17:07] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, most don't
[17:07] <snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, lst jam I spent the hours on askubuntu
[17:08] <brousch> snap-l: But I see so many Apple fanboys saying Google will rescue them from ios6 maps misery
[17:08] <snap-l> Nice: got a mail from Pandora re: backing the Internet Radio Fairness act
[17:08] <brousch> This is saying they have no plans to do so
[17:09] <snap-l> brousch: No, it's someone asking an exec a question that he likely wasn't ready for, or didn't want to tip his hand
[17:09] <greg-g> uh, he was ready for it, you know that for sure
[17:09] <snap-l> saying "We have no plans" is like a reflex action for CEOs
[17:09] <greg-g> he's been thinking about how to answer that question since iOS6 came out
[17:09] <snap-l> That's their "Uh"
[17:10] <greg-g> no, it is "you guys made the wrong choice going with apple"
[17:10] <rick_h_> I'm so sick of apple and their fans. Even my boss was going "how does google get open credit?" crap today
[17:10] <greg-g> who's your boss? :)
[17:10] <greg-g>  
[17:10] <brousch> open credit?
[17:11] <snap-l> Even so, Apple has been pretty clear about making competing apps being a big no-no in their app store
[17:11] <rick_h_> https://twitter.com/deryckh
[17:11] <rick_h_> well we debated what counts as 'open' a little bit
[17:11] <rick_h_> there's levels to it for sure
[17:12] <snap-l> yeah, I loved discussing open APIs as a replacement for OSS with some developers
[17:12] <rick_h_> and I won't say android is OSS since it's closed door dev'd and then opened
[17:12] <snap-l> it was like trying to debate the merits of chocolate over the merits of canned peas.
[17:13] <snap-l> In the end, nobody was convinced.
[17:13] <rick_h_> it's turned into religion and politics
[17:13] <rick_h_> I've never had a discussion and had someone walk away with their mind changed
[17:13] <snap-l> The biggest problem is arguing pragmatism with idealism.
[17:14] <rick_h_> even with languages you can discuss and walk away with new ideas/thoughts about languages/uses
[17:14] <snap-l> pragmatically, you can get things done quite efficiently with Apple hardware
[17:14] <snap-l> but from a FOSS idealistic perspective, you may as well be bathing in baby blood if you even think lustfully over an Apple product.
[17:16] <snap-l> Also, fuck the Football talk
[17:16] <rick_h_> lol
[17:17] <snap-l> Seriously, if the NFL suddenly up and vanished into thin air, I'd be hard pressed to notice
[17:18] <snap-l> And quite convinced I wouldn't care.
[17:18] <jrwren> OSS has always been about religeon and politics. stallman says atheism and communism respectively.
[17:19] <rick_h_> yea, but I don't think the phone wars is OSS or not
[17:19] <rick_h_> I think it's much more the old MS vs Apple, choice vs one true path
[17:19] <dzho> free licensing has almost always been about pragmatism to me
[17:19] <brousch> I posted this to my friend who spammed my twitter and FB feeds with football crap last night http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/127663
[17:19] <dzho> I *hate* licensing paperwork
[17:20] <snap-l> rick_h_: The phone wars are somewhat driven by licensing
[17:20]  * greg-g ignores the convo for a bit ;)
[17:20] <rick_h_> snap-l: 'somewhat'
[17:20] <brousch> dzho++
[17:20] <dzho> I just switched a bunch of macs from osx to windows in large part because windows will sell us licenses for a currently-supported version of their OS that runs on that hardware, that *Apple* hardware, and Apple won't.
[17:20] <snap-l> greg-g: Calling you out on purpose. ;)
[17:20] <rick_h_> snap-l: it's also that I can choose to have a 3.5", 4", 5" phone. Or run amazon or google on it. Or get one that's locked or an unlocked dev phone.
[17:21] <dzho> the other part is that we have to run some instrumentation software that runs only on one or the other.
[17:21] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that's the main thing about Android: the abundance of choice
[17:21] <jrwren> i liked this one on google being "open" http://daringfireball.net/2011/08/google_patently_absurd
[17:21] <dzho> otherwise, of course, I think I could make a good case at this point for Ubuntu
[17:21] <dzho> Android is sort of quasi-free
[17:21]  * greg-g plugs his ears "la la la la la la"
[17:21] <greg-g> :P
[17:21] <dzho> it has free stuff in it, but the whole bit of it isn't.
[17:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: right, which is why I don't think the debate is on that level
[17:22] <rick_h_> but if you put the two side by side and ask why one gets more 'open' credit than the other...there's a lot of other stuff to choose from that feed the feeling 'open'
[17:23] <snap-l> jrwren: Honestly, I don't blame any company for their patent actions. It's gotten to the point where purchasing patents are all about firepower.
[17:23] <rick_h_> choice itself makes it feel more open
[17:23] <dzho> speaking of choice on Android devices, I'd like to see this running with full hardware support: http://9fans.net/archive/2011/09/308
[17:23] <snap-l> though I have serious dislike for Apple's suit against Samsung
[17:23] <snap-l> because it's all of the look and feel bullshit that was trounced in the 1990s
[17:24] <dzho> "Never love a company, because a company can't love you back"
[17:24] <jrwren> dzho: that looks interesting. i want to see similar with mono :)
[17:24] <jrwren> what is teh UI like if there is no java/dalvik layer?
[17:24] <dzho> Inferno is basically Plan 9, I think.
[17:25] <snap-l> jrwren: Probably like a single screenbuffer
[17:25] <dzho> > Instead, emu draws directly to the Linux framebuffer (thanks,
[17:25] <dzho> Andrey, for the initial code!) and treats the touchscreen like a
[17:25] <dzho> one-button mouse.
[17:25] <snap-l> s/screen/frame/
[17:26] <jrwren> ah, i want more than that :)
[17:26] <jrwren> but that is academically cool
[17:26]  * dzho nods
[17:27] <dzho> yeah, that's about the level of it
[17:27] <dzho> proof-of-concept
[17:27] <snap-l> jrwren: it'll run DOSBox like a bat out of hell
[17:27] <snap-l> then you can get that pocket DOS machine you've dreamed of for YEARS.
[17:27] <jrwren> something tells me xterm makes a shitty phone
[17:27] <dzho> I love osso-xterm under Maemo on my n900
[17:28] <snap-l> jrwren: ssh in an Android app tells me XTerms without keyboards are a shitty idea
[17:28] <dzho> it's a crap phone, but a wonderful miniature Debian box.
[17:28]  * snap-l had the 770.
[17:28] <dzho> with Hacker Keyboard on a 7" tablet, ssh is almost useable
[17:28] <snap-l> It was way ahead of it's time
[17:28] <snap-l> and by way ahead, I mean it was pretty shit.
[17:29] <dzho> haha
[17:29] <dzho> I bet it had rounded corners, even then.
[17:29] <snap-l> Yeah, funny enough, had Apple put a DPad on the iPhone, Nokia could have made a case.
[17:29] <snap-l> (for design infringement)
[17:29] <dzho> mmm.
[17:30] <dzho> I'd say gameboys et al constitute prior art there
[17:30] <greg-g> to change the subject, this bug just went across my email: " Gwibber don't work in 12.04 (I see only grey screen)
[17:30] <snap-l> Thankfully that bridge never got crossed.
[17:30] <greg-g> bug 1030904
[17:30] <snap-l> I'm not using Gwibber nearly as much ever since they started loading the whole damn timeline into memory
[17:31] <snap-l> It scrolls for shit, and is pretty much unusable on my desktop machine
[17:31] <snap-l> rick_h_: Question: Which programming languages should I know to get an internship or job at a top-notch company like Google, Facebook,
[17:31] <snap-l> +Apple, etc.?
[17:32] <snap-l> (from Quora digest)
[17:32] <snap-l> proving there is such a thing as a stupid question
[17:44] <rick_h_> snap-l: lol
[17:46] <rick_h_> <3 alex https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/250650329899753472
[17:46] <brousch> So why don't you marry him? You can be humorless together for ever
[17:47] <rick_h_> ok, seriously? I mean f*@$#@ seriously? http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/25/for-microsoft-googles-robohornet-browser-benchmark-isnt-real-world-enough-launches-its-own-version/
[17:48] <rick_h_> so rather than say...submit a patch to the 'alpha' tool you just add "Pro" to the end and do your own thing. DIE IE DIE
[17:57] <snap-l> Control the message
[17:57] <snap-l> That's the Microsoft way
[17:57] <rick_h_> I mean it's on github, in alpha, and pull requests welcome. So they add "Pro" to the end...of course!
[17:58] <rick_h_> and it completes in 6s in chrome while the non-pro thing runs tests for minutes
[17:58] <snap-l> It's like the guy that took a hex editor and started marketing SY-DOS (instead of MS-DOS)
[17:59] <snap-l> rick_h_: So clearly it's a more optimized benchmark. ;)
[17:59] <snap-l> most people only use the web for short bursts anyway.
[17:59] <snap-l> (roll with that as you see fit)
[17:59]  * rick_h_ just jumps out the window. The internet stupid is too high today
[18:00] <snap-l> Oh c'mon. It's a great day for the Internet
[18:00] <snap-l> NFL Sub Refs, Twitter replacing followers with Klout?, Robohornet Pro, What should I do with my life so I can work for Facebook / Google / Apple?
[18:01] <rick_h_> don't forget that grep fails to search amazon
[18:01] <snap-l> Not just amazon, but the whole universe.
[18:05] <brousch> I just made a West MI Dutchman cry
[18:05] <brousch> He showed me his shiny iPhone5 and I showed him my bigger, faster, cheaper Android
[18:05] <jrwren> so what is the story about ads?
[18:07] <jrwren> oh, the ads lens.
[18:08] <jrwren> maybe a duckduckgo lens there too so that search is search, local or web.
[18:08] <rick_h_> jrwren: so see https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/250650329899753472
[18:08] <rick_h_> for the lovely community response to the lense hitting amazon by default
[18:08] <rick_h_> snap-l: going to email this to my wife http://blog.appfog.com/could-portland-be-the-best-city-in-the-country-for-developers-right-now/ :P
[18:10] <jcastro_> jrwren, there's going to be a toggle to turn it on and off
[18:10] <jcastro_> and it's not ads really
[18:10] <jcastro_> it's just amazon results in your dash
[18:10] <jcastro_> so if you search for "megadeth" it shows you CDs, DVDs and whatnot
[18:20] <snap-l> rick_h_: You just put in new floors. ;)
[18:21] <rick_h_> snap-l: *sigh* true
[18:21] <snap-l> "Okay, so I’m biased. I’m a native Portlander and I love living here. I’m Portland’s staunchest defender and was so way before Portland was considered cool."
[18:21] <snap-l> Oh come on
[18:22] <snap-l> "But what makes it even better is that it acts as the de facto hub of the Portland tech scene. Whenever I go there, it feels like a scene from Cheers."
[18:23] <snap-l> Not exactly the kind of aspirational thing I'd expect from a bar.
[18:23] <snap-l> The weather. This is a source of almost endless complaint, but if you ask AppFog founder and CEO Lucas Carlson, having 8-9 months a year of crummy weather offers a hidden productivity boost: “The great thing about Portland is that it’s rainy 9 months out of the year. I’m more productive here than I am anywhere else.” As a native, I couldn’t agree more.
[18:24] <rick_h_> lol, that's the part I was waiting for you to hit
[18:24] <snap-l> OK, the church of elvis might sell me.
[18:24] <rick_h_> "it's not a bug, it's a feature"
[18:24] <snap-l> 24 hours
[18:26] <jcastro_> the beer in portland
[18:26] <jcastro_> period.
[18:27] <snap-l> Well, that sinks it then. Their beer has periods
[18:28] <snap-l> or do they have period beer, as in I'd like a Renaissance Porter?
[18:28] <snap-l> and it's served by a jolly looking chap with a bad English accent?
[18:37] <jrwren> no way is their beer as good as MI beer :)
[18:39] <snap-l> beer smackdown in t-minus...
[18:46] <rick_h_> ok, so this is about the coolest thing ever http://paste.mitechie.com/show/ueNU9dCI8MZEmDpc2OFM/
[18:48] <brousch> Is it a patch to make grep search Amazon?
[18:48] <rick_h_> lol, almost :P
[18:48] <brousch> hah, that is cool
[18:48] <brousch> Other than the MSU part
[18:49] <rick_h_> my wife went to med school at MSU so I have to forgive it for existing
[18:50] <brousch> I thought that was only for vets
[18:50] <snap-l> rick_h_: That's awesome.
[18:51] <rick_h_> brousch: no, they've got a pretty high up there vet program, but they also have a medical school
[18:53] <rick_h_> ok, today is trying to get some awesome to it https://twitter.com/nchan/status/250662314607538176 wow
[18:54] <rick_h_> I want to go drive wherever that it at and see it in person
[19:00] <brousch> Germany
[19:00] <brousch> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=126969
[19:00] <brousch> Why did a German create an american aircraft carrier? I have not a clue
[19:02] <rick_h_> because they learned that carriers + planes > u-boats?
[19:03] <brousch> There's a Legoland in Chicago that's supposed to be good
[19:40] <brousch> $2 off discount code for LEGO Kidsfest in Novi Oct 12-14 (GRK12)
[20:21] <greg-g> snap-l: can I troll you for just a second?
[20:21] <greg-g> ;)
[20:21] <greg-g> http://identi.ca/conversation/96184387
[20:22] <greg-g> (not sure if you follow @mlinksva or not)
[20:23] <snap-l> Yeah, and Michał Andrzej Woźniak tried trolling me too
[20:23] <greg-g> :)
[20:24] <greg-g> sorry, just wanted to point you toward it. Though, retrospectively, I realize it is unneeded and potentially only blood pressure rising.
[20:25] <snap-l> No worries
[20:26] <snap-l> They're in love with the medium, not the message
[20:26] <snap-l> And that's fine.
[20:29] <greg-g> That's unfair.
[20:30] <snap-l> my "Communication without an audience is meaningless." quote was probably too broad. Should have been "communication without recipients is meaningless", but whatever. Point is, no matter how awesomely a tree falls, if nobody hears it, it doesn't matter.
[20:30] <snap-l> (in the context of social media)
[20:30] <greg-g> good thing identi.ca isn't empty, then ;)
[20:30] <greg-g> and, since I'm not going for ad-clicks.... ;)
[20:30] <snap-l> Well, it's also why people have left identi.ca: they didn't like the audience
[20:31] <greg-g> sure, it has some specific communities in it, tightly bound
[20:31] <snap-l> It has a pretty high crank ratio
[20:31] <snap-l> (of which I include myself in that category)
[20:31] <greg-g> bah, I never see it
[20:32] <greg-g> (other than you, of course ;) )
[20:32] <greg-g> I've determined that groups make sense in the huge internal corporate network use case, but not on identi.ca
[20:32] <snap-l> Groups were poorly though out tags
[20:32] <greg-g> (and even that use case is up for debate, just because I haven't tested it)
[20:33] <greg-g> CC's 'internal' status.net is quite small (we're quite small)
[20:33] <snap-l> It's nice to be able to subscribe to a particular group (tag)
[20:33] <snap-l> but the usage became synonymous with tags
[20:34] <snap-l> !ubuntu !debian !metal !alpacafuckers
[20:35] <greg-g> yeah
[20:35]  * greg-g will brb
[20:44]  * ColonelPanic001 notes greg-g's tweet about foreign cars
[20:44] <ColonelPanic001> Ohio-made Civic here.
[20:44] <ColonelPanic001> last car was a Cavalier, many of which (though not mine) were made in Mexico
[20:46] <greg-g> ColonelPanic001: haha, glad someone was paying attention
[20:47] <greg-g> his private response: "I know, I almost defined that, but was lazy. And I agree. But this parking lot was mostly Fords. So, American-owned brands. " my reply "I give no fuck about who owns the trademark. I care about real jobs. Apparently, Ford drivers are just like Apple users (zing!). "
[20:47] <ColonelPanic001> haha
[20:47] <ColonelPanic001> I sort of wish my Chevy had been made in Mexico, just so it'd be a better example. heh
[20:47] <greg-g> :)
[20:47] <ColonelPanic001> but alas. Stupid american factories, making my cars
[20:47] <greg-g> yeah, my Ford Ranger was made in St. Paul ;)
[20:48] <ColonelPanic001> is the Expedition they make out by Toronto area?
[20:48] <ColonelPanic001> I know they've got a Ford plant or two out there, can't remember for what
[20:48] <greg-g> before The Great Deer Collision of 2007
[20:49] <ColonelPanic001> hm. maybe it's GM? Now I can't remember. I know they make cars out there, damnit
[23:42] <brousch> I got into the cheaper-than-S3 Dreamhost storage beta