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mptsnwh, when you're back, I have some news about the Dash settings10:20
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snwhmpt, good news I hope :)13:04
mptsnwh, do you remember yesterday how I asked you if you'd talked with didrocks?13:23
snwhmpt, I do13:23
mptsnwh, and do you remember how I said I wasn't involved in Unity directly?13:24
mptsnwh, well, we had a bit of a mix-up13:24
mptsnwh, pattoin here is a designer at Canonical who has been working on a quick fix for 12.10 for didrocks to implement.13:25
mptYesterday and today.13:25
mptShe didn't know about your work, and I didn't know about hers. :-]13:26
snwhokay :)13:26
mptI showed her your work this morning, and we're interested in developing it further for 13.0413:26
snwhThat's awesome.13:27
mptMeanwhile, here's the design work pattoin has done for 12.10: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1wcFF2Kl156c_9qmD2fCsYzO4700vuJ4T3EJ1nN9wdU4/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g2e54c4f8_2_1013:27
snwhVery nice13:28
snwhPrivacy I would imagine is a more logical place to put it over the Appearance; it's not strictly an appearance setting or behaviour13:29
snwhalso, mpt, I did a couple things with messaging icons: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-ambiance.png & https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/messaging-menu-radiance.png13:31
pattoinsnwh: Hi13:31
pattoinsnwh: I am Patricia, or pattoin in here13:31
snwhpattoin, Hi, I'm Sam13:32
pattoinmpt: has told me about you and the situation13:32
pattoinsnwh: thank you with your design help, it is great to meet you so we could discusse and work together13:33
snwhpattoin, thanks & likewise :)13:33
snwhI thought it was something within my abilities that I could try and contribute to the project.13:34
pattoinsnwh: yes, I have to design it quicly just yesterday and the reason why I include appeareance is because I did a quick user research and test and  some more people will change it in 'appereance'13:36
snwhusers are interesting folks13:36
pattointhey were thinking about hiding ui13:36
pattoinbut the more people understand what it really means, then they will go for privacy13:38
snwhI guess less familiar users will go for the former, whereas everyone else who somewhat understands it will pick privacy13:39
pattoinsnwh: indeed13:40
pattoinanyway we can continue designing it, with your ideas for the next cycle and we have also some discussion to give a more relevant access to 'search results settings'13:42
pattoinand also that the functionality of disable online content sources can be done in the dash UI itself13:43
pattoinwhat do you think?13:43
snwhI look forward to it :)13:43
pattoina lot of people when I did the small user test they thought they can just swith it off from the dash itself next to the title13:44
snwhhow would that be implemented?13:46
snwhSince we already drag and drop to trash, perhaps a similar action as well.13:49
snwhdrag and drop lenses from the dash13:50
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snwhmpt, what if the messaging menu used the status icon and the envelope appeared as an overlay? like this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png15:22
mptsnwh, it's quite difficult to tell that that envelope is an envelope15:23
mptthe dot and the envelope are really fighting for space, in a way that they aren't if the roles are reversed15:24
snwhbut with the dot the envelope will only appear with a new message15:25
mptRemember, too, that a lot of the time -- possibly most of the time, once bug 1056457 is fixed -- there will be no dot15:25
mptbecause by default you'll have no chat accounts, therefore no chat status15:26
snwhthen it could just be the old envelope15:26
snwhwhich could also be the offline/quit icon?15:26
mptAn envelope that shrinks and moves whenever you go online?15:26
snwhno envelope15:27
snwhjust the blue one15:27
snwhas a "popup"15:27
snwhoverlay* on new message15:27
snwhand only an envelope with no chat app or offline.15:27
mptYou have new messages, therefore a blue envelope. You open the menu and change from Offline to Available. The blue envelope shuffles and shrinks to make way for the Available icon.15:28
mptIs that what you meant?15:28
snwhthis: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon2.png15:29
snwhthen https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon1.png for a new message15:29
snwhand https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/alternate-message-icon3.png for offline/no chat app15:30
snwhthe only time a double icon would occur would be a chat status + a new message15:31
snwhis what i was thinking15:31
mptWhat would it look like if you were offline but had new messages?15:32
snwhblue envelope15:32
mptSo, the blue envelope would be shuffling and shrinking in the scenario I described15:32
mptThat seems weird to me, since it wouldn't be the fact that you have new messages that was changing.15:33
snwhi dont understand what you mean by "shuffling and shrinking"15:34
mptChanging from its full size, into an emblem perched at the top right of the green dot.15:34
snwhwhat if a new "new message" emblem were created?15:35
mptThat could solve the problem of the envelope being hard to recognize at small sizes.15:35
mptI don't know what the rest of the icon would look like if you had no chat accounts.15:36
snwhcould keep the white envelope15:37
snwhand use the new emblem15:37
snwhso it'll be all the chat icons, plus an envelope for no chat and a new message emblem across all15:37
snwha number badge probably would be too small15:39
mptsnwh, perhaps the easiest way to visualize the change you're thinking of would be to sketch a replacement for the grid of icons at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#Title>.15:39
mptThat way you could see all the possibilities at once, and the possible transitions involved.15:40
snwhany thoughts on the alternate chat icons?15:41
mptThey improve on the current ones in that they're the same visual weight. The drawback is that they're harder to distinguish, especially for people with color impairments.15:42
snwhthats why there are symbols on the icons15:45
snwhi mean i put symbols on them.15:45
snwhi even colour tweaked the screenshots to see if an impairment would make the symbols indistinguishable15:47
snwhmpt is the width of the indicator fixed?16:23
mptsnwh, no, different menus have different widths (e.g. the battery icons are wider), but it's probably best if all the title icons for the same menu are the same width.16:24
mptThat might involve adding/removing a little spacing16:24
snwhcan it fluxuate?16:25
mptIt can, but as I said, it's probably best if it doesn't16:25
mptotherwise things would wobble16:26
mpt(specially, menus to the left of that one)16:26
snwhunless it was always furthest left16:26
snwhbut yea i agree16:26
snwhi was trialing a two icon thing. and it just shrunk to fit in the indicator16:27
snwhan icon with chat status icon + new mail icon @16x34px and just the chat icon at 16x1616:28
snwhunless the mail icon was always present. and the indicator had two icons, is that possible?16:29
snwhchanging icons*16:30
snwhmpt, may i suggest this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot1.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot2.png16:41
mptsnwh, promising16:42
mptI like that it dramatically reduces the amount of blue16:42
mpt(our blue is pretty fluorescent)16:42
snwhit really is16:42
snwhi had the mail icon there first, but thought to make it simpler16:43
mptOn the other hand, it still has the wobble, though maybe that's a feature rather than a bug16:43
mpta slight animation to draw your attention16:43
snwhchanges from 22px wide to 2316:43
snwhif i remove a px from the right edge it wouldnt wobble16:44
snwhbut like you said: it adds slight animation16:44
snwhmpt, critique? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-ambiance.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7027392/screenshot-radiance.png17:29
snwh..or sabdfl? :)17:46
sabdflsnwh, don't like it not being an envelope20:56
sabdflwe didn't have online state20:56
sabdflso just because we CAN add it for non-colour blind people20:56
sabdfldoesn't mean we have to make the iconography cryptic20:56
sabdflplease let's keep the basic envelope20:57
sabdflat most, open the envelope when it's in the "action" state20:57
sabdfland use the colour20:57
sabdfl"normal" (i.e. connected) should be plain mono white-ish20:57
sabdfli.e. do not show a colour when in the normal active state20:57
sabdfland just darken it slightly when NOT connected20:58
sabdfldon't be garish20:58
sabdfli want my indicators plain when all is normal20:58
sabdflno colour by default20:58
snwhsabdfl, no problem just an idea.21:05
snwhsabdfl, what is the plan for the icons?22:08

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