[00:00] <xnox> jbicha: Не очень =) так просто интересно. Спокойной ночи. Я спать =)
[00:00] <xnox> jbicha: see above ;-)
[00:01] <jbicha> nope, I don't understand that eitehr
[00:01] <xnox> good night =)
[00:01] <jbicha> good night!
[00:33] <mfisch> robert_ancell: bug is filed #1056527
[00:41] <robert_ancell> BUG
[00:41] <robert_ancell> bug 1056527
[00:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056527 in gnome-icon-theme "update gnome-icon-theme to 3.6.0" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056527
[01:09] <bkerensa> So disks (udisks) seems to be broken? not formatting drives
[01:12] <mfisch> robert_ancell: here's the other one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-icon-theme-symbolic/+bug/1056529
[01:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056529 in gnome-icon-theme-symbolic "update to 3.6.0 in quantal" [Wishlist,In progress]
[02:56] <cyphermox> bkerensa: I can c
[02:56] <cyphermox> argh
[02:57] <cyphermox> I can check again in a few hours, in case this system was out of date, but I just formatted a drive successfully
[02:57] <RAOF> robert_ancell: libsane is terrible. Could you please fix it and all its modules? kthxbye.
[02:58] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it sure is. Don't ever run it inside your process
[02:58] <RAOF> Don't ever run it inside a long-running process, either. It leaks fds.
[02:59] <cyphermox> bkerensa: according to apt-cache policy after updating the cache, it looks like my system is up to date
[03:00] <cyphermox> I did have issues foramtting thumb drives before though, and this isn't one
[03:05] <bkerensa> cyphermox: I was being n00b
[03:05] <bkerensa> I forgot to unmount
[03:05] <bkerensa> the new UI tricked me
[03:38] <RAOF> Last chance to ask for some SRU processing before I go off and do something else!
[03:53] <pitti> Good morning
[03:57] <RAOF> pitti: Good morning!
[04:15] <pitti> glib2.0 -proposed upload, take umpteen
[04:16]  * pitti radiates hate towards our arm builders
[04:17] <bkerensa> :D
[05:38] <didrocks> good morning
[05:38] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[05:39] <RAOF> Howdie
[05:42] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, hey RAOF :)
[05:45] <didrocks> pitti: RAOF: where would you set the option to disable the online search part from the dash?
[05:46] <didrocks> (in gnome-control-center)
[05:46] <RAOF> didrocks: I'd look in privacy.
[05:46] <RAOF> But, of course, living in .au mine is pre-disabled.
[05:46] <pitti> hm, good question
[05:46] <didrocks> pitti: pick one! :)
[05:46] <pitti> yeah, privacy sounds good
[05:46] <didrocks> so privacy seems logical for you as well
[05:46] <didrocks> as for me
[05:46] <didrocks> design wants that in "appearance"
[05:47] <pitti> if unity wouldn't be called "appearance", it would be a better place
[05:48] <didrocks> I'm afraid of a side-effect of putting it in appearance
[05:48] <didrocks> people will just think we "hide" the results
[05:48] <didrocks> but that the request is still done
[05:48] <pitti> well, I wouldn't look there in the first place -- "appearance" is theming and colors for me
[05:48] <didrocks> agreed
[05:48] <pitti> not behaviour and network search
[05:49] <pitti> I wuold actually prefer a checkbox in the dash itself
[05:49] <RAOF> I guess they're thinking that unity behaviour is already there, in the “behaviour” tab?
[05:49] <pitti> [ ] Include Amazon shopping results in the list
[05:49] <pitti> s/in the list//
[05:49] <didrocks> pitti: well, took 8 hours for them to come with a checkbox first :)
[05:50] <didrocks> RAOF: yeah, I guess so
[07:06] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[07:07]  * bryceh waves
[07:12] <bryceh> RAOF, nvidia experimental still stuck in New, so no SRUs today I guess :-/
[07:13] <RAOF> There's still time :)
[07:20] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[07:23] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[07:27] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: still coughing, a little bit of fiever, but not that bad
[07:29] <bryceh> didrocks, bronchitis?  I had that for a couple weeks myself.  Still got a bit of cough.
[07:30] <didrocks> bryceh: yeah, a bronchitis :/ been 2 weeks and half… it starts to be quite long :)
[07:30] <didrocks> bryceh: but the doctor gave me some medecine on Monday. So I'm hopeful for next week to be better ;)
[07:30] <bryceh> didrocks, yeah my dr put me on antibiotics, although I don't think it mattered by that point
[07:31] <didrocks> bryceh: I objected the same to my doctor, but he said that it's better to get it 100% killed than having some surviving, has they can become stronger then
[07:31] <didrocks> so antibiotics it is…
[07:31] <bryceh> yup
[07:33] <bryceh> didrocks, one less thing for you and I to catch at UDS ;-)
[07:35] <didrocks> bryceh: that's exactly what I was thinking about!
[07:36] <didrocks> this is the positive side :)
[07:39] <Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: poing?
[07:45] <robru> didrocks: ping
[07:46] <didrocks> hey robru
[07:46] <seb128> hey desktopers
[07:46] <seb128> hey robru, didrocks
[07:47] <robru> didrocks: I heard back from upstream regarding that rygel ftbfs you assigned me... they say it's fixed in the next release, 0.16 IIRC
[07:47] <robru> hey seb128
[07:48] <didrocks> hey seb128 :)
[07:48] <didrocks> robru: is it a bug fix release?
[07:48] <didrocks> robru: or can we backport the fix only?
[07:48] <robru> didrocks: those are excellent questions... ;-)
[07:49] <robru> didrocks: I didn't get a chance to review the changelog extensively
[07:49] <robru> I can look into it more tomorrow if you like. 2AM here right no w;-)
[07:50] <didrocks> robru: sure! have a good night :)
[07:50] <robru> ok ;-)
[07:50] <robru> g'night
[08:07] <mvo> seb128: do you think someone from your team could give me a quick code review for https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-release-upgrader/lp1052605/+merge/125693?
[08:08] <seb128> didrocks, ^ want to do that? ;-)
[08:09] <seb128> didrocks, unping
[08:09] <mvo> no real rush as we are frozen and all
[08:09] <seb128> I guess I can do it
[08:09] <mvo> but it would be nice
[08:09] <seb128> mvo, I will have a look
[08:09]  * mvo hugs seb128
[08:09]  * seb128 hugs mvo back
[08:10] <didrocks> (quite busy with the privacy-thingy change :))
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> woohoo, new laptop bag :)
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> after trashing the zip on my old one at the airport in warsaw :/
[08:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[08:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how was the mozilla thing in warsaw?
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it was pretty good :)
[08:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do they plan to take over the world? ;-)
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> hah :)
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> the firefox os stuff looks pretty interesting. i even have it running on my laptop now ;)
[08:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that chrome OS like?
[08:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not really. the UI is really only for phones
[08:29] <chrisccoulson> but it's possible to run it without putting it on a phone: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Boot_to_Gecko/Using_the_B2G_desktop_client
[08:30] <seb128> I guess it doesn't make for a great desktop OS then if that's not the target?
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, you wouldn't want to use it as a desktop OS
[08:30] <seb128> you will show me at UDS ;-)
[08:31] <seb128> did you try to hack your phone to put it on it? :p
[08:32] <chrisccoulson> heh, i've not tried putting it on a phone yet
[09:00] <didrocks> Laney: hey!
[09:00] <Laney> hey
[09:00] <didrocks> Laney: I'm sure you never heard of it, but there is a FFe on bug #1054746 ;)
[09:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054746 in unity-lens-shopping "[FFe] [UIFe] No easy way to disable (results from) this lens" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054746
[09:00] <Laney> oh, that's a very well written bug
[09:02] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[09:02] <Laney> :P
[09:02] <Laney> when do you want to upload it?
[09:02] <Laney> just as part of the next unity release?
[09:08] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, will be part of the next unity release I guess
[09:10] <Laney> didrocks: right, thanks, commenting in a second then
[09:11] <didrocks> thanks Laney :)
[09:12] <Laney> Sweetshark: yo, I tried to branch libreoffice to give you a proper git diff but I couldn't figure out how your git layout works there. People (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-unfonts-core/+bug/1034928/comments/50) keep complaining about this warning. Simple patch is: http://paste.debian.net/193128/
[09:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1034928 in libreoffice "Fontconfig warning: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not works as expected" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:25] <Laney> didrocks: done
[09:27] <didrocks> Laney: thanks, FYI, the software-center part is out of the scope right now
[09:27] <didrocks> by design
[09:27] <didrocks> (of course, after writing the code for it :/)
[09:27] <Laney> I don't even see a software-center part there :P
[09:27] <didrocks> Laney: in the app lens
[09:27] <didrocks> Laney: I removed it from the description
[09:27] <Laney> oh
[09:28]  * Laney is starting to wonder about "by design"
[09:30] <Laney> ARGH, also "Status changed to 'Confirmed' because the bug affects multiple users." is annoying
[09:33] <didrocks> Laney: you think we can make a launchpad group for this bot-hater :)
[09:34] <Laney> I would join ;)
[09:35] <hyperair> well technically it's not wrong
[09:35] <hyperair> if the bug affects multiple users it's considered confirmed
[09:36] <hyperair> and when it's acked by a developer, it becomes triaged
[09:37] <Laney> it shouldn't overrule a human
[09:38] <Laney> in this case it went New->Confirmed and I reverted it, then the bot reverted me
[11:37] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[11:54] <Sweetshark> seb128: ho
[11:55] <seb128> Sweetshark, doko is looking for you
[11:55] <seb128> Sweetshark, he pinged me to know if you were working today
[11:55] <didrocks> desrt: hey, how are you? I have more vala/bind (in other part of code) awesomeness to ask :)
[11:56] <Sweetshark> seb128: yes, I am fixing up the unity stuff for LO :/
[11:57] <seb128> Sweetshark, I guess pong back doko anyway
[11:57] <seb128> Sweetshark, what unity stuff?
[11:57] <didrocks> ?
[11:58] <Sweetshark> seb128: LO unity menu integration ...
[11:58] <didrocks> but, it was fixed from the last new I had
[11:58] <didrocks> hum larsu, is not around
[11:58] <seb128> Sweetshark, what is broken?
[12:02] <Sweetshark> seb128: we are almost there. it is rather stable, but if you start with the LibreOffice startcenter (with the buttons for writer, calc etc.) and then click on one of those buttons (e.g. writer) to get that app into the window, you get no menu in that app.
[12:02] <seb128> Sweetshark, works here
[12:06] <Sweetshark> seb128: with the version in main you still are subject to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1052200
[12:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1052200 in libreoffice "LibreOffice crashes with a SIGSEGV sometimes because GMenuModel exporter receives a NULL menu" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[12:07] <Sweetshark> seb128: antonio did some more work on the unitymenus branch, which led to some other troubles, most are being fixed by now.
[12:08] <seb128> Sweetshark, you are confident that it's going to be in an ok state for release at this point?
[12:09] <Sweetshark> seb128: yes, with the work I did yesterday I am. Still shit happens and Murphy never sleeps.
[12:09] <seb128> Sweetshark, right, thanks for the update!
[12:10] <Sweetshark> seb128: What I have now survives running subsequentcheck under unity (the version currently in main does not -- it crashes)
[12:22] <didrocks> davidcalle: hey!
[12:22] <davidcalle> didrocks, hey :)
[12:23] <didrocks> davidcalle: do you think you have the time today to review my merge proposal for your lenses?
[12:24] <davidcalle> didrocks, your mp is on the wrong branch :P The team has worked all this cycle on the scope branch in the unity-lens-videos project, they haven't noticed when I said the code had moved.
[12:24] <didrocks> davidcalle: argh? but the target branch is the main one, isn't it?
[12:24] <didrocks> davidcalle: what's the right branch then?
[12:25] <davidcalle> didrocks, lp:unity-lens-videos/remote-videos-scope-trunk
[12:25] <didrocks> davidcalle: why isn't that a lp: ?
[12:25] <didrocks> it should have its own project
[12:26] <davidcalle> didrocks, it has, and you have found it. But not people who have worked on it this cycle.
[12:26] <jibel> I lost ctrl+alt+t shortcut again with yesterdays updates, it's defined in system's settings but does nothing. is there a bug already filed ?
[12:27] <didrocks> jibel: in system settings, it's defined twice, right?
[12:27] <davidcalle> didrocks, and since there always was a branch waiting to be merged, I haven't moved the "trunk" this cycle.
[12:28] <didrocks> davidcalle: hum, there is just one line of diff, let me merge that
[12:28] <jibel> didrocks, right, it was, once in 'launchers' and once in 'Custom shortcuts'
[12:28] <davidcalle> didrocks, one line of diff...?
[12:29] <jibel> then I replaced the one from custom shortcut to have one working at least
[12:29] <jibel> but the default still doesn't work
[12:29] <didrocks> jibel: you need to not have them conflicting
[12:29] <didrocks> jibel: so just set one of the two
[12:30] <didrocks> jibel: and just one of the two is actually wired
[12:31] <didrocks> davidcalle: do you have the real name of the branch?
[12:31] <didrocks> davidcalle: I only have some ~person result when retargetting the merge proposal
[12:32] <didrocks> ~unity-lens-videos/unity-lens-videos/remote-videos
[12:32] <didrocks> here we go
[12:32] <davidcalle> didrocks, yes, that's the right one
[12:34] <jibel> didrocks, in 'Launchers' I have 2 shortcuts 'Launch terminal' and 'Launch Terminal' (note the capital T)
[12:34] <didrocks> davidcalle: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/unity-lens-videos/add-disabling-remote-search/+merge/126441
[12:34] <pitti> didrocks: pgraner just filed bug 1056821 about it, FYI
[12:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056821 in unity "Quantal: ctl-alt-t does not bring up terminal after updating" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056821
[12:35] <didrocks> jibel: one sec, both are translated for it
[12:35] <didrocks> pitti: it's fixed and a dup
[12:35] <didrocks> jibel: "Launch in a terminal" is the right one
[12:35] <didrocks> no capital T
[12:36] <didrocks> pitti: jibel: FYI, fixed upstream, but it will bind with "Launch in a Terminal" (so if you disable you, you will have to enable it again in the future)
[12:37] <jibel> didrocks, ok, I disabled both since I cannot remove any. then bound ctrl+alt+t to 'Launch terminal' and that fixed it
[12:40] <didrocks> jibel: yeah, be warned it will be broken again soon and you will have to reset it
[12:40] <didrocks> but at last, we'll have the right value
[12:41] <didrocks> jibel: I'm surprised you are telling it's broken in today's update! compiz has been available on Friday :)
[12:41] <jibel> didrocks, ok, but now I know what will break and how to fix it
[12:42] <didrocks> yep :)
[12:43] <jibel> didrocks, yesterday, but maybe the pacakge was uploaded before and I didn't install the update.
[12:43] <jibel> didrocks, I was not an emergency because I had another shortcut for terminals until pgraner got the bug ;)
[12:43] <didrocks> heh :)
[12:45] <jbicha> I'm not happy about bug 1054746
[12:45] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054746 in unity-lens-gdocs "[FFe] [UIFe] No easy way to disable (results from) this lens" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054746
[12:46] <jbicha> this is why we shouldn't have major features land so late, because they *will* need tweaking
[13:02]  * ogra_ curses firefox loudly
[13:03] <ogra_> i'm close to switch to chromium it really got unusable in precise
[13:03] <ogra_> damned
[13:04] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, do you have any idea why i cant reach the last tab in my tablist without jumping through several hoops all the time ?
[13:05] <ogra_> klicking the little arrow in the tab bar only gets me to the pre-last tab ... i can only reach the last one if i go to the pre-las in windowed mode ... when i then maximize the window i can reach the last one ... but it works only with that combo
[13:06] <ogra_> (same for the pulldown ... using it gets me the content of the last tab, but not the handle in the tab bar to close it)
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, not sure. have you tried disabling addons? ;)
[13:09] <ogra_> i dont think i have any but the default ones
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> it could be one of those ;)
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> (i don't have all of the default ones installed)
[13:12] <didrocks> jbicha: I'm making a screenshot of it
[13:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, (you don't test the code you ship to our user?! :p)
[13:13] <chrisccoulson> heh
[13:14] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, ARGH ... seems there was an ancient grab n' drag extension (thats what you get copying your home from a multitouch laptop :P)
[13:14] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, there we go ;)
[13:14] <ogra_> i removed it ans will check if the issue gets better
[13:15] <ogra_> oh, yeah
[13:15] <ogra_> the tab bar behaves totally different now even on window size changes
[13:15] <ogra_> (it actually scrolls to the tab handle for the tab in use, didnt do that before)
[13:15]  * ogra_ hugs chrisccoulson 
[13:16] <ogra_> thanks so much, that annoyed me since i switched to precise
[13:16] <ogra_> now if i could only get a proper alt+tab behavior out of unity :)
[13:19] <didrocks> jbicha: see the screenshot, it's an additional panel, you don't have to document it if you don't have team
[13:19] <didrocks> skaet: can you look at bug #1054746 please?
[13:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054746 in unity-lens-gdocs "[FFe] [UIFe] No easy way to disable (results from) this lens" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054746
[13:23] <didrocks> jbicha: you should have let me first post the screenshot :) I waited to have the definitive design answer
[13:27] <jbicha> "Dash plugins you install may disregard this setting." <- that's not very confidence building
[13:27] <seb128> jbicha, there is no way to make sure that all third party lens do respect that key
[13:27] <seb128> jbicha, it would be misleading to not warn users about that
[13:28] <jbicha> you could ensure that all dash plugins in the Ubuntu archives do; if people use third party repositories, that's not as much our problem
[13:28] <seb128> didrocks is fixing all the default lenses
[13:29] <seb128> so it's mostly warning users that respecting the settings is not something unity enforce for you
[13:29] <seb128> it's something you have to trust the lens writer for
[13:29] <jbicha> it looks like the other two available are -help and -radios
[13:29] <seb128> well that doesn't include appdev
[13:29] <seb128> extras.ubuntu.com I mean
[13:30] <jbicha> ok, well Ubuntu controls that channel too
[13:31] <Laney> erk, that does sound concerning
[13:31] <Laney> could we have a Learn more or something that explains which lenses will respect it?
[13:31] <jbicha> explain to people how to fix their lenses and give them a month to do it so that by release we don't need a string that sounds bad to those that are already upset over this problem
[13:31] <didrocks> Laney: it's better to keep honesty and don't mislead the users
[13:31] <didrocks> jbicha: well, would you have this option for the radio lens for instance?
[13:32] <didrocks> jbicha: the radio lens completely rely on a remote service
[13:32] <jbicha> didrocks: that system settings switch sounds universal to me
[13:32] <didrocks> if there was a local part, it would make sense to have the option
[13:32] <didrocks> jbicha: on the contrary, it's telling that it's only for the default lens
[13:32] <didrocks> which is what you don't like :)
[13:32] <jbicha> that's not what the UI says
[13:32] <didrocks> not telling it would sounds universal
[13:33] <Laney> didrocks: I'm saying keep it and explain which lenses will respect it, and possibly why some won't
[13:34] <didrocks> Laney: not me choosing the wording, the design team did, I'm asking them to come here
[13:34] <didrocks> but as they took one day to think about it, I think they are more advanced than us on this
[13:34] <jcastro_> Just tell them "Some lenses might not respect this key, we recommend lens authors follow _these guidelines_ to support this feature."
[13:34] <jcastro_> and then a link to how to integrate it into their lens
[13:35] <Laney> that's not the place for guidelines to developers
[13:35] <jcastro_> and then put it in quickly so all new lens will just use the feature ootb
[13:35] <jbicha> unless you're going to implement the setting per lens, I think it needs to be universal and every lens should respect it
[13:35] <seb128> it should
[13:35] <didrocks> jbicha: but how do you want it to be universal?
[13:36] <seb128> reality is that lens developers might not implement support for it
[13:36] <didrocks> indeed
[13:36] <Laney> you can't do that without restricting the API available to them
[13:36] <didrocks> and better to not lie to the user
[13:36] <jbicha> by telling developers that it's mandatory, and pushing lenses out of extras if they don't comply after a reasonable period of time
[13:36] <didrocks> Laney: exactly
[13:36] <seb128> and there is little we can do to ensure that whatever lens you will find in a ppa does it
[13:36] <Laney> I just want to convey that the lenses we ship as official will definitely respect this
[13:36] <davidcalle> There could be a notice about how this doesn't affect your Online Accounts integration. Gdocs, Gwibber and Photos in the Dash are not affected, you control that in OA.
[13:36] <jbicha> ppa's are totally different and Ubuntu has no control over ppa's
[13:36] <didrocks> Laney: well, I'm working on this, and it's done
[13:37] <jbicha> people are welcome to complain to the ppa maintainers as the ppa's are not part of Ubuntu
[13:37] <seb128> jbicha, well, the issue is to message that unity doesn't enforce that setting in an universal way
[13:37] <seb128> so there is a part of "lens might screw up and unity will not block them"
[13:37] <jbicha> davidcalle: +1, yeah that part is a bit confusing
[13:37] <Laney> it should be "these settings" btw
[13:38] <Laney> or this setting
[13:38] <Laney> probably the second one
[13:39] <jbicha> actually, a lot confusing; how do we explain that online results from gwibber are ok?
[13:39] <didrocks> also, I do see little value to have this for the gwibber lens
[13:39] <didrocks> should add "commercial"
[13:39] <didrocks> like:
[13:39] <jbicha> how does the gdocs scope work? isn't it pulling direct from the web?
[13:39] <didrocks> "Include results from commercial online content source"
[13:40] <Laney> "While the lenses which Ubuntu provides by default respect this setting, Ubuntu cannot guarantee that other lenses will."
[13:40] <jcastro_> yeah but then you're stuck figuring out what is commercial or not
[13:40] <jcastro_> just make it a toggle, online sources, or not online sources.
[13:40] <jcastro_> otherwise people will be like "how come wikipedia is ok but google isn't ok."
[13:41] <jbicha> jcastro_: and should the gwibber lens just be deactivated then?
[13:41] <davidcalle> "When searching the Dash" "Include commercial suggestions" "ON/OFF"
[13:41] <didrocks> so if you want gwibber results, you need the shopping lens on?
[13:41] <jcastro_> I would think so.
[13:42] <jcastro_> well, they're granular on top of that too right?
[13:42] <seb128> it's not an online,offline setting
[13:42] <didrocks> jcastro_: not on this iteration, look at the bug please
[13:42] <seb128> it's a stopgap pour quantal
[13:42] <didrocks> I would add "commercial"
[13:42] <seb128> we can't do the full granular thing for this cycle at this point
[13:42] <didrocks> but waiting on design…
[13:42] <seb128> or "don't query the canonical server for commercial suggestions"
[13:42] <seb128> that's really about stuff you can buy (u1, amazon)
[13:43] <seb128> not about blocking gwibber or fb photos
[13:43] <jcastro_> right, so I would do online/offline for now, then figure the granular stuff at UDS
[13:43] <jbicha> Turn off Amazon & Ubuntu One Music Store results?
[13:43] <Laney> doesn't it disable videosearch too?
[13:43] <didrocks> I don't think that people would see "Amazon" as "canonical server"
[13:43] <didrocks> Laney: it does
[13:43] <seb128> Laney, those go through the canonical server, u1 as well
[13:43] <Laney> yeah, but they're not all "commercial"
[13:43] <jcastro_> didrocks, sorry to barge in here like this, but I've been whining about lenses spamming the home lens since 11.04. No one cared until now, heh.
[13:44] <seb128> "don't let the dash agregate sponsored content for you" :p
[13:44] <seb128> jcastro_, still no one care about the spamming, the issue is sending queries on the wire to a server of ours basically
[13:44] <didrocks> jcastro_: yeah, and at the end I'm the one having to fix that in a hurry where my schedule wasn't for that, so I would appreciate to keep the level of general bikeshedding low and not add that to my bagel :)
[13:44] <jbicha> the "Keep Mark from taking your money" switch
[13:45] <jcastro_> seb128, yeah but they send to all sorts of stuff depending on what you have installed
[13:45] <seb128> jbicha, ;-)
[13:45] <seb128> I guess it's close from "don't show sponsored results"
[13:45] <Laney> It's why I think a Learn More would let us explain what we've done
[13:46] <jbicha> didrocks: except that if it's not done right, then it will need to get fixed again
[13:46] <seb128> those a sponsored
[13:46] <seb128> not commercial
[13:46] <Laney> too subtle to get across
[13:46] <seb128> "don't show sponsored results (u1 music store, amazon)"
[13:46] <jbicha> I don't think people are upset by the video lens (or the radio lens) for instance
[13:46] <seb128> the other option is to give up on the UI and keep it as a gsetting key
[13:47] <seb128> but it's a shame if the reason is just that we can't agree on some wording
[13:47] <Laney> where's design :P
[13:47] <jbicha> Laney: probably hiding ;)
[13:48] <didrocks> pattoin: hey!
[13:48] <pattoin> ohhh yes
[13:49] <Laney> "Not all dash plugins respect this setting. The shopping, video and photo plugins which Ubuntu supplies by default does."
[13:49] <pattoin> here I am
[13:49] <Laney> or so?
[13:49] <Laney> do
[13:49] <didrocks> ah good :)
[13:49] <didrocks> pattoin: so, regarding the discussion we had
[13:49] <pattoin> yes
[13:49] <didrocks> pattoin: seems that the wording is misleading about what "online" is
[13:50] <didrocks> pattoin: indeed, I think we don't want to cut the connexion of the gwibber lens for instance
[13:50] <didrocks> only for the online recommends
[13:50] <seb128> nor stop the photo lens to show your facebook photos
[13:50] <didrocks> indeed
[13:50] <didrocks> we discussed adding "sponsored, commercial"
[13:50] <didrocks> what do you think?
[13:50]  * didrocks has vim opened :)
[13:51] <seb128> people argued that all results are not "commercial" ones
[13:51] <Laney> I'm more concerned about the qualifier, fwiw
[13:51] <seb128> the video lens gets some videos from youtube, etc
[13:51] <seb128> which are not commercial services
[13:51] <didrocks> nor sponsored :/
[13:51] <jbicha> youtube is commercial-ish
[13:51] <pattoin> yes true
[13:52] <pattoin> what about 'something more explicit as 'payable content'
[13:53] <seb128> pattoin, well, would you qualify youtube videos as "payable"?
[13:53] <seb128> (since they are free)
[13:54] <jbicha> "payable" isn't a good word
[13:54] <pattoin> I know is not good but thinking about the concept of aontent I pay for
[13:54] <pattoin> and content I don't pay for
[13:55] <didrocks> and not all online activity :)
[13:55] <seb128> what's the main issue for users there? that the queries are made to a Canonical server ?
[13:55] <pattoin> so you still have your facebook photos and so on open
[13:55] <seb128> should be convey the idea of "don't get aggregated result through the Canonical services"?
[13:55] <jbicha> "Include sponsored online results"....and then we wouldn't have to touch the video or gwibber lenses (as currently set up) or even third-party lenses until they set up their own affiliate programs
[13:56] <jbicha> *unless they*
[13:57] <Laney> just make it disable the shopping lens for now? :)
[13:57] <seb128> well, the backend side is done
[13:57] <seb128> it basically just stop queries proxied through the canonical server
[13:57] <jbicha> would that wording need U1MS disabled too?
[13:58] <seb128> u1ms is disabled I think
[13:58] <seb128> didrocks, ^ is it?
[13:58] <didrocks> yes
[13:58] <seb128> jbicha, it basically disable stuff that go through our server
[13:58] <didrocks> in every default lenses
[13:58] <seb128> which is video lens results, u1ms, amazon
[13:59] <seb128> the u1 go through the server because it does select the sources according to your region and some other fancy stuff
[13:59] <jbicha> can it be smarter, to not disable the video results?
[13:59] <Laney> Don't retrieve results from Canonical servers
[13:59] <seb128> u1->video
[13:59] <didrocks> jbicha: well, you would still have request to Canonical servers
[13:59] <didrocks> jbicha: why not the shopping lens and this one?
[13:59] <seb128> jbicha, no, what people complain is that we send queries to Canonical
[14:00] <seb128> that option would basically stop any query to be sent this way
[14:00] <didrocks> jbicha: there is still "what I type here it stealing every single letters and my ip address"
[14:00] <jbicha> video was there in 12.04 and music was in 11.10 & I didn't hear much criticism
[14:00] <kenvandine> jbicha, the new icon for the gwibber lens is attached to bug 1056191
[14:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056191 in unity "[UIFe] Social Lens doesn't have authorised and meaningful icon" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056191
[14:01] <kenvandine> it's basically the same as the previous one (before the twitter one was used)
[14:01] <seb128> jbicha, go figure why people freak out now about queries made online and they didn't before...
[14:01] <pattoin> OK , CAN WE DISCUSSED THE OPTIONS ONE BY ONE? AND i CAN GET OTHER IDEAS MAYBE FROM THE COPYWRITER
[14:01] <pattoin> sorry I screem
[14:01]  * Laney runs
[14:01] <seb128> pattoin, sure, thanks for trying to bring back some sanity in that discussion ;-)
[14:01] <pattoin> :)
[14:02] <seb128> pattoin, so I think we agree that users are concerned more about what they type being sent to an online server than about commercial nature of results
[14:02] <seb128> pattoin, do you think it would make sense to try to message "sponsored result" or "Canonical aggregated" or something around those lines?
[14:03] <jbicha> kenvandine: yeah, that icon is fine, thanks
[14:08] <pattoin> so we have those options , please tell me what is the problem with those so I also understand more the issue
[14:08] <pattoin> Option 1: Include results from online stores
[14:09] <pattoin> Option 2:  Include results from online content sources
[14:10] <seb128> pattoin, problem with 2 is that the option only control if we do queries to Canonical's server for aggregated "sponsored" content (e.g linked to revenue streams)
[14:10] <pattoin> Option 3:  Include sponsored results
[14:10] <seb128> pattoin, we wouldn't stop e.g the photos to come directly from facebook
[14:10] <didrocks> (nor we want to stop them, it doesn't make sense)
[14:11] <seb128> pattoin, option1 issue, is that it's not only store, like youtube is part of the concerned stream (we proxy the videos queries through our servers)
[14:11] <pattoin> Option 4:  Include Canonical aggregated
[14:11] <seb128> pattoin, Option 3 and 4 would work for me
[14:11] <seb128> didrocks, Laney, jbicha: ^ wdyt?
[14:11] <Laney> I wouldn't consider youtube sponsored
[14:11] <Laney> 4. works
[14:12] <didrocks> same for me, 4. if fine
[14:12] <Laney> could we then do something about the subtext?
[14:13] <Laney> This will disable online results from the x y and z Dash plugin
[14:13] <Laney> s
[14:13] <pattoin> the problem I see with number 4 is that is hard to know for a new user what is 'Canonical aggregated'
[14:14] <Laney> ^
[14:14] <Laney> instead of "Dash plugins may disregard..."
[14:14] <seb128> pattoin, maybe  'Canonical aggregated (UbuntuOne music store, Amazon product, ...)'
[14:15] <jbicha> or even what Canonical is
[14:15] <pattoin> seb128: yes something like that
[14:15] <pattoin> or canonical partners
[14:15] <pattoin> or ubuntu partners ... I am just thinking aloud
[14:16] <seb128> even if the string is not perfect or clear to all users I don't think it's a big deal
[14:16] <pattoin> yes I don't think people rally knows what canonical is
[14:16] <didrocks> seb128: agreed, we should make it as best as possible without spending 2 hours on it
[14:16] <seb128> ubuntu partners, or commercial partners...
[14:18] <seb128> pattoin, I'm fine with any variant of articulated around option 4
[14:18] <pattoin> yes Option 5:  Include Ubuntu partners commercial suggestions   maybe?#
[14:18] <seb128> I think even if some users don't find the description really good, at least the option is there for those who really care to have a control over that setting
[14:18] <Laney> My closing suggestion: "Include content from Canonical partners" then on the next line "This will disable internet results from the shopping, video and blah Dash plugins"
[14:18] <Laney> fin
[14:19] <didrocks> Option 5 is fine with me :)
[14:20] <seb128> pattoin, I'm happy with option 5 or what Laney says ... I think design should have the final word on the exact variant so feel free to pick whatever sounds best for you guys
[14:20] <Laney> it's clearly an implementation to be finessed over time
[14:21] <Laney> thanks didrocks for working on it ;)
[14:21]  * Laney hugs didrocks 
[14:21]  * didrocks hugs Laney back
[14:23] <pattoin> OK I will updated the mock up with Option 5 or Laneys:  I wll just check it with the copywriter
[14:23] <skaet> didrocks, seb128, Laney - key in my mind at this point is not to churn the images (and docs and translations)  with tweaks.   Once design settles the wording,  I'd prefer to see it land earlier rather than later.   Next real window is Friday.  But we'd need a test plan created to make sure we're not causing more problems that this solves, and we do have room to finesse and communicate this over time.
[14:23] <Laney> well jbicha nacked it anyway
[14:24] <Laney> I don't know if that was for wording or screenshot reasons
[14:24] <didrocks> pattoin: don't bother about taking the time to update the mockup, I can take a screenshot once you have the final wording
[14:24] <jbicha> Laney: for text reasons, there aren't screenshots of that
[14:24] <didrocks> skaet: oh sure, it's post-beta2 anyway
[14:24] <didrocks> jbicha: there are
[14:24] <Laney> I think he's referring just to ubuntu-docs
[14:24] <didrocks> ah :)
[14:24] <didrocks> yeah
[14:24] <jbicha> didrocks: screenshots where?
[14:25] <didrocks> jbicha: no, I thought you were speaking about screenshot on the bug, not the doc :)
[14:28] <Laney> what should we do about that?
[14:29]  * jbicha has to log out for 10 min
[14:30] <didrocks> desrt: not around yet btw? :)
[14:30] <desrt> didrocks: i am
[14:30] <desrt> ah.  didn't see your ping.
[14:30] <didrocks> desrt: no worry ;)
[14:31] <didrocks> desrt: so, basically, all is fine with _bind() for get and accessing through the property the latest possible value in vala
[14:31] <didrocks> desrt: but when I set it, the gsettings key itself is not updated
[14:31] <desrt> didrocks: check your flags?
[14:32] <desrt> the default is a two-way sync with the initial value being the one out of the gsettings
[14:32] <desrt> of course, in order for the other way to work, you have to be properly emitting notifies on the property on the object in vala....
[14:32] <didrocks> desrt: yeah, I forced the default to ensure it should work
[14:32] <didrocks> desrt: stripped code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1228551/
[14:32] <desrt> this will happen automatically if you have { get; set; }
[14:32] <desrt> but not if you do manual accessors...
[14:32] <didrocks> so the notification shuld happen
[14:32] <didrocks> should*
[14:33] <desrt> try "remote-content-search"
[14:33] <desrt> as the property name to bind to
[14:33] <desrt> if it's watching for notify::remote_content_search instead of notify::remote-content-search then it may miss the notification because of a mismatch in the detail
[14:34] <desrt> that would be an interesting issue... possibly worthy of a bug report...
[14:34] <didrocks> desrt: ah interesting, but the marshmalling for setting gsettings -> property works :)
[14:34] <desrt> didrocks: with gobject property you have some equivalents in the names
[14:34] <didrocks> yeah, vala should just not find the property to assign it to first, or really support both :)
[14:34] <desrt> like - is the same as _
[14:34] <desrt> but i don't know if those same equivalences extend to signal detail quarks
[14:35] <desrt> and i suspect that they don't
[14:35] <didrocks> desrt: right, I know (and have just used that for listening to property change in the slave classes)
[14:35] <didrocks> desrt: I was thinking that listening to the property by the binding would do the translation for you :)
[14:35] <didrocks> interesting :)
[14:35] <desrt> well
[14:35] <desrt> we could make that tweak
[14:35] <desrt> or at least issue a warning about it
[14:37] <didrocks> desrt: working perfectly fine :)
[14:37] <desrt> nice
[14:37] <desrt> file a bug about that against gsettings please
[14:37] <didrocks> desrt: thanks a lot, want a bug report? this is in the bind() itself or vala?
[14:37] <desrt> we should issue a g_warning() in this case
[14:37] <didrocks> ok, doing in 5min :)
[14:38] <desrt> thanks
[14:38] <didrocks> thanks to you :)
[14:38] <didrocks> ok, just waiting on design for the wording now and everything is ready
[14:38] <Laney> apart from the UIF
[14:38] <didrocks> Laney: I meant code-wise :)
[14:38] <Laney> hah
[14:38] <Laney> only half the battle :P
[14:39] <didrocks> Laney: I think getting jbicha in the discussion helped already
[14:39] <Laney> ye
[14:39] <didrocks> launchpad, please stop timeouting
[14:40] <didrocks> ah finally :)
[14:48] <didrocks> desrt: bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684882 FYI
[14:48] <ubot2> Gnome bug 684882 in gsettings "Gsettings should spaw a warning when binding against a low_under_property" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[15:14] <pattoin1> didrocks: having the same idea only change a bit the order the final copy is :    'Include commercial suggestions from Ubuntu partners'
[15:14] <pattoin1> and I updated the mockup
[15:15] <didrocks> pattoin1: argh, I just changed it and posted the screenshot :)
[15:15] <didrocks> ok, changing :p
[15:16] <pattoin1> didrocks: :)
[15:18] <pattoin1> Thank you!.... it seems it is my spanish that changes the order of the english sentences
[15:18] <didrocks> pattoin1: heh, my French is not any better :)
[15:19] <didrocks> for english words order :)
[15:20] <Laney> do you think we could get rid of the "disregard" line if you don't want to change it to expand on exactly what the option means?
[15:20] <didrocks> pattoin1: ^
[15:20] <Laney> the only thing it does to me is to make me worry
[15:22] <pattoin1> Laney: you mean the whole line?
[15:22] <Laney> yeah
[15:22] <Laney> I think with that wording it isn't very good now that we say "Ubuntu partners"
[15:22] <pattoin1> Laney: I thought we need to warn the user that the setting won't apply on new lenses the user will install?
[15:23] <Laney> because really nothing that is an Ubuntu partner is going to disregard the setting
[15:23] <Laney> if you see what I mean
[15:23] <seb128> pattoin1, Laney has a point, it's not likely that extra lenses include 'commercial suggestions from Ubuntu partners'
[15:23] <seb128> pattoin1, they might go online but they will not be commercial nor Ubuntu partners
[15:23] <Laney> if just makes me think "oh, so I can't be sure that the toggle will do what I want"
[15:23] <Laney> which leaves me with an edgy feeling
[15:25] <pattoin1> OK, if you think that new lenses won't have content from other ubuntu partners, then I think is better not to incluide this line as well, it is confusing and make someone worry
[15:25] <didrocks> Laney: don't be like an eft ;)
[15:26] <didrocks> pattoin1: well, if they do have, I think they will be canonical-related, so will apply to this setting
[15:26] <didrocks> removing then
[15:26] <pattoin1> yes
[15:26] <pattoin1> OK
[15:26] <pattoin1> I am happy then
[15:26] <Laney> oh, edgy, those were the days
[15:26] <pattoin1> I will remove it
[15:27] <didrocks> doing then :)
[15:27] <Laney> \o/
[15:27] <Laney> epic discussion for one sentence
[15:27] <Laney> gotta love free software
[15:28] <Laney> :P
[15:29] <pattoin1> didrocks: OK, updated
[15:29] <didrocks> Laney: and you wanted to reuse an existing one, isn't it?
[15:29] <didrocks> pattoin1: already implemented, screenshoted and bug updated :)
[15:29] <Laney> an existing what?
[15:30] <Laney> string ...
[15:30] <Laney> well, if it were possible
[15:30] <Laney> at that point I didn't know what the UI was going to be :(
[15:31] <pattoin1> didrocks: screenshot?
[15:31] <seb128> Laney, didrocks, pattoin1: thanks for being constructive and keeping up with the discussion ;-)
[15:31] <didrocks> pattoin1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/activity-log-manager/+bug/1054746/+attachment/3345576/+files/privacy_dash.png
[15:31] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054746 in unity-lens-gdocs "[FFe] [UIFe] No easy way to disable online results in lenses" [High,In progress]
[15:31] <seb128> didrocks, next you need to hand some cookies to jbicha
[15:32] <didrocks> jbicha: did you follow the discussion around here? Now that we changed the wording and updated the bug report, are you fine with it (as the doc doesn't mention/screenshot it)
[15:32] <pattoin1> seb128: what is your name?
[15:32] <pattoin1> your real name :)
[15:32] <seb128> pattoin1, Sébastien Bacher
[15:33] <jbicha> didrocks: ubuntu-docs tells people that want to disable shopping results to uninstall unity-lens-shopping, which isn't the best GUI way to do this any more
[15:33] <didrocks> jbicha: still valid, but not as easy as the settings
[15:35] <desrt> didrocks: not seeing the bug yet?
[15:36] <desrt> huh.  i wonder why my bugmail is not coming.
[15:36] <didrocks> 16:48:22      didrocks | desrt: bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684882 FYI
[15:36] <ubot2> Gnome bug 684882 in gsettings "Gsettings should spaw a warning when binding against a low_underscored_property" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[15:36] <pattoin1> seb128: Thanks Sébastien
[15:36] <desrt> didrocks: ya.  i see it now.
[15:36] <seb128> pattoin1, you're welcome ;-)
[15:36] <desrt> was just not in my inbox for some reason
[15:37] <desrt> i think thunderbird was just having a slow morning because it's there now :)
[15:37] <jbicha> my protest is about Ubuntu freezes being ignored and oh, we'll just file a bug which has a 95% chance of getting approved
[15:37] <didrocks> desrt: ahah :)
[15:38] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, freeze situation is an issue :-(
[15:38] <Laney> yes, it certainly is
[15:38] <didrocks> but I think we all agree here and are not really the cause of it
[15:39] <jbicha> saying No is a way to get that message back to those who push these changes
[15:39] <didrocks> jbicha: I'll just have to spend more time to get it accepted as the community is really upset about the current situation
[15:39] <didrocks> it won't impact the other people
[15:40] <didrocks> And TBH I didn't plan to work on that and spending 2 days on it and had better to do like fixing bugs. Just doing it because it was the right thing to do :)
[15:40] <didrocks> so making it harder will just make my work harder :/
[15:40] <jbicha> once that message is made clear, the only ones affected are me and the translators so...
[15:40] <jbicha> how about I change my mind if 2 non-Canonical translators give their +1 to the extra work?
[15:40] <didrocks> dpm: can you get that? ^
[15:41] <Laney> how about we agree to bring a discussion about freezes up ;-)
[15:41] <dpm> didrocks, jbicha, otp, let me come back to you in a few minutes
[15:42] <Laney> real shame you won't be at UDS for that jbicha
[15:53] <Laney> jbicha: (moving it here), could you test the -session with lightdm and gdm?
[15:53] <Laney> I'm open to considering accepting it if it works out alright
[15:54] <jbicha> I tested with gdm, let me reboot and test with lightdm also
[15:54] <Laney> try launching a few different sessions
[15:57] <jbicha> ok, lightdm starts and log in works as expected, the a11y needs checking though
[15:57] <jbicha> turning on and off the screen keyboard worked
[15:57] <ogra_> hmm, is it normal that i have a littel green dot on the messaging indicator by default now (right after install before configuring anything on the system)
[15:57] <seb128> ogra_, "normal" as "kwown bug being worked"
[15:57] <ogra_> seems that tries to indicate "available" status ...
[15:58] <ogra_> ah, k
[15:58] <seb128> ogra_, bug #1046360
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1046360 in telepathy-indicator "should start on login only if accounts are configured" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1046360
[15:58] <jbicha> I could turn on orca on, but it doesn't seem to want to turn off, I don't know if orca was broken on the log in screen before
[16:02]  * ogra_ clicks "me too" :)
[16:04] <jbicha> Laney: yes, orca doesn't turn off in gnome-session 3.5.92 either, so everything seems to work with gdm or unity-greeter
[16:04] <Laney> cheers
[16:05] <Laney> skaet: ^ I'm minded to accept it, given that gdm is busted. What do you think?
[16:05] <Laney> it doesn't fix any bugs for Ubuntu or any main flavours that I know of.
[16:08] <ricotz> jbicha, hi :)
[16:08] <jbicha> ricotz: hi
[16:08] <ricotz> jbicha, the keybindings definition for g-c-c arent installed in gnome-shell-common
[16:10] <jbicha> ricotz: ok, let's fix that when we bump the minimum gnome-session required
[16:11] <jbicha> or, actually that's gdm that needs the newer gnome-session
[16:12] <ricotz> jbicha, http://paste.debian.net/plain/193250  think of it as reverse ;)
[16:14] <ricotz> jbicha, ah, if you arent working on g-s then, do you want a real debdiff?
[16:15] <jbicha> real debdiff's/mp's are better if you want to apply for upload privileges
[16:19] <ricotz> jbicha, no problem, give me a moment
[16:19] <skaet> Laney, *checking some things*
[16:30] <ricotz> jbicha, http://paste.debian.net/plain/193257
[16:31] <didrocks> jbicha: hey, so we have 2 +1 from non canonical translators
[16:32] <didrocks> can I send now the change to the translations team?
[16:35] <Laney> skaet: I'm off out now for a while. Feel free to accept it.
[16:36] <Laney> jbicha should then upload a gdm with the right versioned Depends
[16:36] <skaet> Laney,  ack.
[16:39] <didrocks> jbicha: thanks
[16:39] <jbicha> thanks everyone
[16:40] <didrocks> jbicha: do you need a screenshot or whatever I can give to you?
[16:41] <desrt> didrocks: hey.  can you test a patch for me?
[16:42] <didrocks> desrt: sure, it's about the gsettings thingy? :)
[16:42] <desrt> ya
[16:42] <jbicha> didrocks: yeah just so I can accurately describe what the UI says; if the last screenshot you posted is indeed final then that's fine
[16:42] <didrocks> desrt: maybe not tonight though, headache and about to leave, but will give you the result tomorrow
[16:43] <didrocks> jbicha: it's the final one, I didn't change meanwhile
[16:43] <jbicha> didrocks: stress headache?
[16:43] <didrocks> jbicha: ok, so leaving this one, if it's not in the doc, you don't need an english only one :)
[16:43] <desrt> okay
[16:43] <desrt> i'll put it on the bug
[16:43] <jbicha> right
[16:43] <didrocks> jbicha: probably that + bronchiotis for 2 weeks I guess :/
[16:43] <didrocks> desrt: thanks!
[17:01]  * didrocks waves good evening
[17:16] <desrt> jbicha: any word on why gnome3 ppa lacks g-s-d?
[17:17] <desrt> or rather, has a very very old one, only...
[17:19] <jbicha> desrt: ricotz has g-c-c & g-s-d 3.6 in his staging ppa, we probably want it in the gnome3 ppa for quantal but I haven't looked at the packaging yet to see what the tradeoffs would be
[17:20] <desrt> jbicha: g-s-d has a somewhat obnoxious libappindicator dependency
[17:20] <jbicha> for instance, his ppa uses the upstream appearance panel instead of the Ubuntu version
[17:20] <desrt> would be nice to beat that out
[17:20] <seb128> desrt, why so much hate? ;-)
[17:20] <desrt> it's easy though -- they had the kindness to make it a --disable- switch
[17:20] <seb128> desrt, start by beating gconf out :p
[17:20] <desrt> seb128: gconf is just gconf
[17:20] <desrt> g-s-d has a lot of things that depend on it
[17:20] <seb128> haters are going to hate :p
[17:20] <desrt> and libappindicator depends on a lot of things
[17:21] <seb128> no it doesn't?
[17:21] <jbicha> well we don't necessarily want to make the Unity experience worse if someone installs the gnome3 ppa
[17:21] <desrt> so the result is that i have a lot of stuff i don't wnat installed for an unused feature of a package that absolutely must be installed
[17:21] <desrt> jbicha: is that the plan?
[17:21] <desrt> what about for the gnomebuntu cd image?
[17:22] <jbicha> desrt: for quantal, it's also shipping GNOME Classic with the status indicators
[17:22]  * desrt wonders when gnome-panel will die...
[17:22] <ricotz> desrt, jbicha, i even don
[17:22] <ricotz> oops
[17:23] <ricotz> desrt, jbicha, i even don't want to put it in testing ppa to not break things for tester who use unity too
[17:26] <desrt> heh
[17:27]  * desrt is starting to suspect that there may be a conflict here
[17:27] <desrt> i don't think it's possible to satisfy the "more upstream than fedora" gnomebuntu criteria at the same time as the "don't break it with unity" criteria
[17:28] <jbicha> we can't be more upstream than fedora but we compensate for our weaknesses by including things like Epiphany
[17:29] <jbicha> desrt: if you've got extra time, it'd be cool if you started on the ubuntu-control-center split for 13.04
[17:29] <desrt> there's not a whole lot of work to do there
[17:30] <desrt> unless i miss something
[17:30] <jbicha> will u-c-c be co-installable with g-c-c?
[17:30] <desrt> oh.  i wasn't imagining so
[17:30] <desrt> if we want them to be parallel-installable then it is indeed a much bigger issue
[17:30] <desrt> i personally gave up on having unity and gnome on the same system long ago...
[17:30]  * desrt just uses a vm now
[17:31] <desrt> the gdm/lightdm thing is pretty much the last nail in the coexistence coffin
[17:32] <desrt> of course, we could try to fix that one as well....
[17:33] <desrt> but at some point i think we should stop wasting all of this effort
[17:35] <ricotz> jbicha, i hope you queued up the g-s upload in your todo list
[17:39] <jbicha> ricotz: yeah, I'm uploading in a sec
[17:40] <desrt> seb128: what's your take on the concept of parallel-installable g-c-c/u-c-c?
[17:41] <seb128> desrt, no strong opinion
[17:41] <desrt> i mean do you think it's worth the effort?
[17:41] <seb128> desrt, if somebody want to do a parallel installable for upstream g-c-c they can do it
[17:41] <seb128> desrt, no
[17:41] <desrt> ya.  i agree.
[17:42] <seb128> especially that part of our design changes went upstream so it should reduce our patching level
[17:42] <ricotz> jbicha, thanks
[17:42] <desrt> so are you just going to start uploading the modified one with the name u-c-c next cycle and relegate g-c-c to a debian universe import?
[17:42] <seb128> we can do that
[17:42] <desrt> that's always what i assumed would happen
[17:42] <desrt> with a conflicts:, of course
[17:43] <jbicha> would the seeds have a problem with ubuntu-gnome depending on g-c-c | u-c-c and ubuntu-desktop depending on u-c-c | g-c-c
[17:43] <jbicha> g-c-c has a fair amount of rdepends
[17:43] <seb128> desrt, right, that was my intent, having versionned names for icons etc would be a pain
[17:43] <desrt> could we have u-c-c provides: g-c-c?
[17:44] <desrt> then put u-c-c explicitly on the seed list
[17:44] <desrt> and with a conflicts: g-c-c that would be a good way to make sure we get the right package in the right seed, i think
[17:44] <seb128> the provides are not versioned though :-(
[17:44] <desrt> hm
[17:44] <desrt> we have versioned g-c-c depends/
[17:44] <seb128> jbicha, no, that | would be fine
[17:44] <desrt> seb128: 54 packages with g-c-c rdepend
[17:44] <desrt> lots of work to do :)
[17:45] <seb128> not worth it...
[17:45] <desrt> indeed
[17:45] <desrt> shame about the unversioned provides thing
[17:45] <seb128> I want to see if we can just fork some panels and play with OnlyShowIn
[17:45] <desrt> that may help
[17:46] <seb128> like the appareance one
[17:46] <seb128> because we should have almost no change to most panels
[17:46] <desrt> might make sense to maintain those forked panels in a separate package, even
[17:46] <seb128> like our sound fork went upstream in 3.6
[17:46] <desrt> since we'll presumably continue with the public-library approach
[17:47] <seb128> yes
[17:47] <seb128> which is one of the patches,but I don't think anyone care strongly about us adding that capability
[17:47] <desrt> i sort of like the sound of this approach
[17:47] <desrt> well
[17:47] <desrt> that patch would become the master patch
[17:47] <desrt> the only one we need, really
[17:47] <desrt> since it would facilitate any other changes we want to make without requiring other patches
[17:47] <jbicha> what about the killing the icons next to Personal, Hardware, System which weren't done right & so look bad in non-light-themes
[17:48] <desrt> an interesting extra functionality might be the ability for an external module to 'hide' internal ones
[17:48] <desrt> so we don't have to explicitly mark them onlyshowin: gnome
[17:48] <desrt> we just install the ubuntu one and it stomps out the upstream one
[17:52] <robru_> am I the only one experiencing the absolute worst round of system updates ever?
[17:53] <desrt> robru_: that was me on monday :)
[17:53] <robru_> gdm won't start, lightdm won't launch gnome-shell, lightdm will launch unity, but once unity's screen is locked, there's no way to unlock the screen.
[17:53] <desrt> robru_: don't make the mistake of trying a fresh reinstall from a daily either.  that's in bad shape at the moment as well.
[17:54] <robru_> oh, and emacs is hung. congrats guys
[17:54] <robru_> you broke emacs
[17:56] <jbicha> robru_: gdm is being worked on, bug 1056936
[17:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056936 in gdm "[FFE] GDM 3.6.0 won't start without gnome-session 3.6.0" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056936
[17:57] <robru> jbicha: is there a workaround to launch gnome-shell in the meantime?
[17:57] <cyphermox> Desrt I didn't have any issues installing this morning really
[17:57] <cyphermox> There are some gotchas but things work
[17:59] <desrt> perhaps it's fixed
[17:59] <desrt> the installer was getting stuck for me running os-prober
[17:59] <robru> jbicha: do you need anybody to help you test this? looks like we are the only ones 'affected' by that bug ;-)
[18:00]  * desrt makes a note of not rebooting... :)
[18:01]  * xnox makes a note to schedule an unannounced powercut in desrt's area
[18:01] <jbicha> robru: it hit people on the forums too, we just need to convince the Release Team that gnome-session is safe when we're running out of time before Beta 2
[18:01] <jbicha> or we could do a more-or-less-ugly revert
[18:02] <jbicha> or we could just wait 24 hours for the archive to open again and then the problem is magically fixed
[18:02] <robru> jbicha: sarcasm? I don't follow how waiting 24 hours magically fixes things. though I'm more than happy to take the day off ;-)
[18:03] <jbicha> nope, not sarcasm, gnome-session is waiting in the NEW queue since we're in hard freeze for the beta, which expires tomorrow
[18:03] <jbicha> *unapproved queue
[18:04] <jbicha> robru: if you need to get work done, just install the old gdm from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.5.92-0ubuntu1
[18:04] <jbicha> or /var/cache/apt/archive
[18:04] <robru> jbicha: ok thanks
[18:06] <desrt> xnox: laptop :)
[18:07] <robru> I'm also hitting an unrelated bug with unity. anybody else seeing this one? after my screen locks, when I come back to my computer, the screen is just black. I have a mouse and the mouse is responsive, but other than the mouse there is only solid black on the screen. the computer *seems* really unresponsive, however I rebooted, and then upon restoring my firefox session, I discovered that I'd done a google search for my password.
[18:07] <robru> means that the unlock dialog accepted my password, and then firefox accepted my password again, without any visual cues for me at all.
[18:08] <robru> so that's impressively terrible. also I was able to get back to lightdm by pressing tab and space to activate the 'switch user' button, but then when I tried to log back in as myself, it went back to the black screen thing.
[18:08] <robru> (the switch user button that I *couldn't* *see* because the screen was *only* *black*)
[18:09] <jbicha> robru: I've had similar black screen of death a few times this week, but most of the time screenlock has been working for me
[18:10] <robru> yeah, actually, sorry. I tried locking and unlocking screen manually, and that works. it's only when I go away for a bit, then come back, the screen is black.
[18:11] <robru> I don't mind "black screen of death", that's some understandable glitch. what I am incredibly bothered by is unwittingly doing google searches for my password. is that not incredibly terrifying to anybody else? how many times have I googled my password without even knowing?
[18:12] <jbicha> robru: just be glad you didn't have IRC focused!
[18:12] <robru> what's worse, google engineers knowing my password, or canonical ones? ;-)
[18:12] <desrt> canonical
[18:13] <desrt> google already knows everything about you :)
[18:13] <robru> hah
[18:13] <robru> I unfortunately developed the habit of 'typing password into black screen' some time ago when I was experiencing some bug with screen lock showing only black, but entering the password was successfully able to unlock the screen and recover my session.
[18:14] <robru> jbicha: to downgrade gdm, do I just need gdm and gnome-shell 3.5, or other packages too?
[18:15] <jbicha> I think gdm is sufficient
[18:17] <seb128> robru, jbicha. the blank screen issue is known, tjaalton is working on it
[18:17] <robru> ok
[18:17] <robru> thanks seb128
[18:17] <seb128> robru, you are on intel?
[18:17] <seb128> graphics
[18:18] <robru> seb128: yeah, system76 gazelle, so intel 4000 gfx
[18:18] <seb128> yeah, intel driver bug apparently there...
[18:22] <robru> does tjaalton need any assistance with testing?
[18:32] <ricotz> jbicha, i will just copy gnome-session to gnome3 ppa
[18:32] <jbicha> ricotz: thanks
[18:33] <ricotz> this will at least help the ppa users
[19:07] <tjaalton> robru: can you reproduce the hang with gnome-shell?
[19:08] <robru> tjaalton: I haven't seen it with gnome-shell yet, only with unity
[19:09] <robru> tjaalton: is there something specific you want me to try in order to attempt to reproduce it?
[19:12] <tjaalton> robru: nah, i'm trying to get a newer kernel working with the current upstream code and see how it works and let upstream know
[19:13] <robru> tjaalton: alright, no worries. let me know if you need anything tested, this is a serious one that needs to die ;-)
[19:14] <tjaalton> tell me about it..
[19:27] <sbte> pitti, is there anything you can say about this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emesene/+bug/1050358
[19:27] <ubot2> sbte: Error: <Bugtracker.plugin.Launchpad instance at 0x9212c2c> bug 1050358 not found
[22:36] <jbicha> robert_ancell: hey, did you see bug 1055783?
[22:36] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055783 in lightdm "LightDM doesn't take full ownership of /var/lib/lightdm which can prevent lightdm from starting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055783
[22:36] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yes, haven't investigated yet though
[22:37] <jbicha> ok, it should only affect people who go around uninstalling and reinstalling lightdm