ali1234wow, maybe that ultraparanoid guy in here the other day was actually right00:28
penguin42which one?00:32
hamitronis £580 too much to spend on scalextric?00:33
hamitronerrr, wrong chan00:33
ali1234yes, it is too much00:34
ali1234penguin42: i forgot his name but he claimed that the government kept installing some monitoring software on his PC using fake adobe updates, and that's why he switched to linux... but then ubuntu offered him a (legit) flash update00:35
ali1234at least legit in the sense it was correctyly signed by canonical00:35
hamitronhehe, that was amusing00:35
penguin42ali1234: Adobe did say that they believed it was only Windows & Mac versions that were signed (and I'm not sure what products) - but hey00:36
ali1234that means *adobe* only signed windows and mac software with it. the people who stole it could have used it to sign anything00:36
ali1234i forgot te name of the tracking software he claimed to have... let me check logs...00:37
hamitronstill don't think it is a reason to not update stuff from the official ubuntu sources00:38
ali1234absolutely not00:38
ali1234and by not doing so his machine was less secure00:38
ali1234which i pointed out :)00:38
penguin42ali1234: No, what Adobe reported was that the breakin managed to sign stuff on the machine, and that the key was held in a hardware cryptography module that hadn't been compromised, so the key itself wasn't released00:38
ali1234penguin42: ah i see00:38
ali1234fair enough then00:38
ali1234can i enable "focus follows mouse" for just some specific windows?02:06
ali1234specifically "all blender windows"02:06
ali1234(with compiz)02:07
knightwisehey everyone06:13
knightwiseTGIF people !07:34
Azelphuranyone know how to turn off touchpad scrolling in Lubuntu07:46
Azelphurdid it with synclient \o/07:51
popeyI was going to suggest gpointing-device-settings07:52
pinky-morning all, I just see on news Hamilton is moving to Mercedes.. oh what a fool07:53
Azelphurhehe, just needed to turn off vert scroll, it does not work well at all on this elonex webbook :P07:53
=== TheOpenSourcerer is now known as theopensourcerer
popeylol, you bought one of those pieces of crap?07:57
popeymorning theopensourcerer07:57
theopensourcerer\o/ popey07:58
christeltheopensourcerer, popey :)07:58
christelhullu hullu07:58
theopensourcererIt's FFFFRRRRIIIIDDDDAAAAYYYY :-D07:58
theopensourcererAnd end of the month - Invoicing day :-D :-D :-D07:59
theopensourcererPayday :-D07:59
theopensourcererExpenses day :-D07:59
christelindeed (to all of the above!)07:59
christeland in my case "boy wonder going away to see the inlaws for the weekend" day! tomorrow i shall SLEEP07:59
* AlanBell hunts for receipts and tickets and such07:59
christelAlanBell: i want to go film more stuff! i had so much fun yesterday08:00
* theopensourcerer keeps his expenses record up-to-date on OpenERP so has only a few more items to add from yesterday08:01
theopensourcererWhat were you filming christel?08:01
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad|lunch
theopensourcererkewl - http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/a-new-google-app-gives-you-local-information-before-you-ask-for-it/08:02
AzelphurIs there any way to make it so that you don't need to type your password to connect to a wifi network?08:02
christela couple of scenes for our next movie! we were filming tom price :)08:02
christelthe guy who played PC Andy in torchwood08:02
christelhe was great08:02
Azelphurtheopensourcerer: fun :)08:02
theopensourcererchristel: Were you up at the Bourne Woods then?08:03
christeli was knackered afterwards mind, but it was so much fun08:03
christelwe filmed out in lasham at black hangar studios08:03
theopensourcerer"knackered" such a British word... Anyone would think you were a native ;-)08:03
theopensourcerer"It’s always running in the background, so it knows where you are..."08:04
theopensourcererThis sounds great - $99 16 core, 13Ghz 26 gigaflops - want it. arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/99-raspberry-pi-sized-supercomputer-touted-in-kickstarter-project/08:11
JamesTaitHappy Friday, folks! :-D08:14
popeyUbuntu desktop :)08:15
pinky-I'm at dentist later for checkup, ett-ho08:22
theopensourcererpopey: That looks really cool. I think Libertus Solutions should support that project. Will discuss with AlanBell shortly.08:22
matttmorning morning morning08:25
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
bigcalmOk, you can relax, I have returned!08:35
christeloh good! ;)08:38
* mattt relaxes08:38
bigcalmNow that's a wink to be concerned about08:38
daubersHey Miss czajkowski - What's the higlights in the CC changes?08:41
popeyCC changes08:42
czajkowskido you mean the Code of Coduct ?08:42
bigcalmThat would be coc08:42
bigcalmCC, to me, is Credit Card or Creative Commons08:43
czajkowskior community council08:43
bigcalmOr Carbon Copy08:43
daubersczajkowski: Yeah, that one :)08:43
daubersThe blog post I saw called it CC...... so I just went with the herd08:43
czajkowskidaubers: anyways to answer your question, we took the feedback we had received at UDS last in our session and put that in so removed some wording and replaced some of the word ubuntu in there to make reusable also08:44
czajkowskiLaney: have you see the call for more feedback based on the UDS session08:44
Laneythe what?08:44
daubersczajkowski: Ah ok, so mainly rewording of the same statements?08:44
matttdaubers: plus FA-like fines for racial abuse08:45
matttit's at the bottom08:45
AlanBelldaubers: I think this one merges the original code of conduct with the separate leadership code of conduct so the diff is quite large08:45
czajkowskiLaney: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback08:45
czajkowskiAlanBell: well no we had done that merge months ago and that was already out there08:45
czajkowskiso was he talking about the chance since before last uds to now ?08:46
Laneyoh, fridge08:46
czajkowskior in general08:46
AlanBelloh OK, in that case a diff should work08:46
Laneyczajkowski: can you edit that?08:46
Laneythe fridge calendar08:46
daubersI see a license has been added to the bottom too08:46
Laneywho can?08:46
czajkowskiit is in fact evil08:46
czajkowskiLaney: whats wrong ?08:46
Laneywe moved some dmb meetings08:47
daubersa brief scan show nothing I object to, so I shall carry on as if nothing had happened :)08:47
czajkowskiLaney: ahh go to #ubuntu-news08:47
czajkowskiand see their wiki08:47
czajkowskiLaney: tells you how to do stuff08:47
Laneycan I just abuse dholbach directly :-)08:48
AlanBelldaubers: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/revision/27?remember=2508:50
AlanBellI think08:50
czajkowskiLaney: bet sponsor him then poke him08:52
czajkowskithat way he'll favour being abused :p08:52
LaneyI donated to his marathon thing; he's my bitch now :>08:52
xnoxczajkowski: you are now known as "cz<tab>" on #ubuntu-devel thanks to Laney08:53
matttwhat happened to #ubuntu-uk meetings?08:55
* czajkowski smacks Laney 08:56
LaneyI didn't start it!08:56
czajkowskiLaney: xnox is telling tales on you08:56
bigcalmmattt: I think work got in the way for everybody08:57
bigcalmmattt: I know that's what happened to me08:57
xnoxczajkowski: at 12 minutes past the irclogs will update and you can check for your self ;-)08:57
xnoxczajkowski: maybe it's a hint you should hangout on #ubuntu-devel ......08:57
matttbigcalm: yeah, it's been a busy year for a lot of people :-/08:58
=== iahmad|lunch is now known as iahmad
popeynothing stopping someone running meetings :)08:58
matttpopey: true, let us know when the next one is then08:58
bigcalmpopey: I don't think it was ;)08:59
AlanBellyeah, we should start up meetings again08:59
* mattt looks at popey08:59
AlanBellI think they were too frequent and after a couple of just me talking to myself I kind of didn't get round to scheduling the next one08:59
bigcalmWhen I was able to attend, I found myself to be quite vocal :S09:00
czajkowskimattt: organise one if you'd like :)09:00
czajkowskithen people can turn up09:00
AlanBellwhen would be good for people?09:00
bigcalmI'm surprised we didn't have one at oggcamp09:00
matttczajkowski: popey's got it under control09:00
matttAlanBell: personally, after 8 is best09:02
matttday of week is irrelevant09:02
bigcalmI would say during office hours, but I don't think my boss would agree09:03
matttbigcalm: yeah, too many distractions at work09:03
AlanBellmattt: feel free to edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda09:04
AlanBelllets have a discussion just after Quantal gets released09:04
matttAlanBell: sure, i'll need to look at previous meetings to see what the threads were09:04
matttit'd also be nice to figure out what people want from meetings09:05
Azelphurhmm, trying to repartition my laptop, it has an extended partition inside of which is an "unknown" 3.6GB partition, any ideas what that might be?09:07
bigcalmA recovery drive?09:08
Azelphurit's a Ubuntu install09:08
bigcalmI out of ideas then :)09:08
Azelphurguess I'll just take the crazy approach and delete it09:08
popeywhy not mount it and have a look?09:09
AzelphurI can't, gparted can't even see what it is09:09
Azelphurdoes Ubuntu usually need any partitions besides the ext4 to boot?09:09
=== AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 19/10/2012 20:00
AzelphurI'm guessing not, since my PC only has the EXT409:10
Azelphurit's probably swap that went wrong, that's my guess09:10
bigcalmSeems a bit large to be a swap, and in an extended partition? It would be quite wrong indeed09:11
* Azelphur shrugs09:12
Azelphurmy data is all in ext4 anyway, so it can go09:12
* AlanBell enjoys waiting for remotely rebooted servers to respond to ping09:13
popeytoo large to be swap?09:14
popeySwap:  8267772k total09:14
Azelphur3.6GB isn't large for swap?09:14
AlanBellnot really09:14
bigcalmNot too large, just seems a bit large for swap09:14
* Azelphur shrugs09:14
czajkowskipopey: you just living on kickstarter these days finding all sorts of odd stuff :)09:18
popeyi enjoy kickstarter, yes09:24
popeyand indiegogo09:24
popeyhttp://www.indiegogo.com/nexphone?a=1051579 not looking good09:24
bigcalmToo many android phones already out there maybe09:26
mattti think the ubuntu wiki needs a tickle09:26
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:32
* czajkowski slaps Laney Laura TM09:32
bigcalmMorning brobostigon09:33
brobostigonmorning bigcalm09:34
Laneyhar de har09:34
czajkowskiLaney: lets see what happens when you ask for stuff in my channel mister :p09:34
czajkowskicheeky fecker09:34
* Laney screams HUMANITY TO OTHERS and runs away09:35
czajkowskivery special lad09:35
matttAlanBell: changed the date, hope that's ok09:37
AlanBellthat will clash with everyone being in a pub in London :)09:38
matttAlanBell: bleh ... think people will attend on a friday?09:40
matttAlanBell: how about the wednesday?09:40
matttAlanBell: what is happening on the thurs?09:40
czajkowskimattt: release party ?09:40
AlanBellstill trying to sort that out exactly, I think it will be going to a nominated pub09:41
AlanBellnothing more organised than that really, it doesn't work for us with release parties09:42
matttczajkowski: i have no idea, hence asking :)09:42
mattthad i known, i wouldn't have asked!09:42
matttAlanBell: ok, thanks09:42
AlanBellmight try to do something more like the other teams do later in the year, more of an installfest type thing09:42
AlanBellwe just can't do it on release day because the Canonical team just want to go to the pub09:43
czajkowskiAlanBell: well you're not tied to going to a pub either, just the uk loco has in the past just merged it into one event09:44
czajkowskiit used to be a sprint week for release but not as many come for the week now09:44
czajkowskiseemingly finding a pub with nice ales is a way to get them to come as well :)09:44
czajkowskiLaney: 5K walks usually not 4K that's -1K and cheating09:45
popeythats more likely to get nerds coming09:45
matttwouldn't want that09:45
matttAlanBell: perhaps the following week after launch is best then09:48
popeythe problem we had historically is we would like canonical people to come along, but they generally just want to go to a bar/pub and drink & eat and not give talks or do computer stuff09:49
AlanBelland setting up an event in competition to a pub night really isn't going to end well09:49
AlanBellwe could do something a week later09:50
popeyI think that would be a good idea09:50
matttbtw i was referring to meeting, not pub/in-person meetup09:50
AlanBelloh, right09:50
mattti don't know enough about your ubuntu ways to dictate when in person things happen :)09:51
mattti know you guys have a tight way of doing things around here09:51
AlanBellnot that tight09:51
lubotu3Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+109:51
AlanBellanyone can organise stuff09:51
matttAlanBell: true, but it needs to be done right09:52
matttotherwise it's just a waste of time09:52
* popey will be in denmark the week after release09:52
matttpopey: great, we can use your house then09:53
czajkowskihmm thought it was the 18th09:53
czajkowskirelease wiki and relase party say 18th09:53
mattt17th release?09:53
czajkowskiah nm getting date and release number mixed up09:54
* mattt stares at czajkowski 09:54
czajkowskiplease don't09:54
czajkowskimost odd09:54
matttok, i'm bumping this meeting date forward, we can move it around later if it's not convenient09:54
matttsorry for all the change spam you guys are receiving09:55
popey1) 4.10, 2) 5.04, 3) 5.10, 4) 6.06, 5) 6.10, 6) 7.04, 7) 7.10,  8) 8.04, 9) 8.10, 10) 9.04, 11) 9.10, 12) 10.04, 13) 10.10, 14) 11.04, 15) 11.10, 16) 12.04, 17) 12.10  *\o/*09:55
ali1234so i've got a question. "Nominations to the boards and councils are at the discretion of the Community Council, however the Community Council will seek the input of the community before confirming appointments." - how exactly will the council do that? and again, who exactly are they talking about when they say "community" there?09:58
AlanBellthey are talking about members of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers09:59
ali1234AlanBell: yes, that's what i suspected09:59
AlanBelland what they mean is that they will hold a vote, but reserve the right to ignore the results09:59
ali1234and who decides who gets to be an ubuntu member?09:59
AlanBellthe membership boards09:59
lubotu3Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership10:00
ali1234ultimately it all comes back to the council10:00
ali1234so the council (ultimately) chooses who gets to vote and still reserves the right to ignore the results :)10:00
ali1234i just wish that everyone would stop using "community" interchangable to mean "ubuntu members" and "everyone who uses ubuntu"10:01
ali1234that's really all i want. too much?10:02
Laneylook at the link I gave10:02
Laneyit doesn't mean ubuntu members10:02
ali1234Laney: the link you gave does not mention anything about the council "consulting the community"10:03
* AlanBell thinks all those groups are proper subsets of ubuntumembers10:03
ali1234and indeed it only uses the word community in the sense of "Community Council"10:03
Laneyit tells you who will be polled10:04
Laneyhow about you read it instead of using the find feature of your browser10:04
ali1234Laney: um, how about you actually answer my question instead of being obtuse. hint: the answer isn't on that page10:05
ali1234i've read it several times10:05
Laneynah i've got a better option10:05
ali1234te page does not define the "community" (lower case C) nor does it define how the Community Council (upper case C) will consult it10:05
ali1234so please, stop telling me to read a page that doesn't answer any of my questions10:06
ali1234further more, every group of people who would be polled is a subset of ubuntu members10:06
bigcalmI can't read "further more" without thinking it's part of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue10:07
ali1234not that "who will be polled" has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the question i asked10:08
AlanBellali1234: so the point of ubuntumembers is to define a pollable voting group really10:12
ali1234all i hear is what it doesn't mean10:13
AlanBellan open vote to the reddit/slashdot community probably isn't a particularly useful way of getting the opinion of people who are interested in the success of the project10:14
ali1234well quite10:14
ali1234i never said it was10:14
AlanBellthe ubuntu community isn't everyone who uses ubuntu10:15
ali1234you're doing it again10:15
AlanBellit is everyone who considers themseves a stakeholder in the project10:15
ali1234the ubuntu community is like scotch mist10:15
AlanBellonly because I typed it on two lines :)10:15
ali1234to me it feels a lot like the definition is intentionally vague so that it can constantly be modified to include/exclude undesirables10:18
christelali1234: are you an undesirable? :o10:19
popeyi think its kept vauge so we don't exclude people10:19
ali1234popey: partly10:20
popeyi.e. if we explicitly said "the community is people who are active in their loco, forum members, developers etc" then that might discount someone who does great advocacy but doesn't fall into those buckets10:20
popeyand new groups come up all the time10:20
popeye.g. AskUbuntu10:20
popeyso when we "consult the community" we're frequently asking anyone/everyone, not just Ubuntu Members10:23
ali1234it also means that someone who contributes constantly can be excluded for unstated reasons if they disagree with the leadership10:24
popeyi've never seen that happen10:24
ali1234and they can't say "well, i do all the things on the CoC"10:24
popeyi've seen people excluded for stated reasons10:24
popeybut actually we don't do a very good job of kicking people out10:24
popeywe've had destructive people hang around and cause pain and trouble for people for a long time10:25
ali1234kicking them out?10:25
popeyand had to go to some lengths to exclude10:25
ali1234kicking them out of what though?10:25
ali1234out of ubuntu members or higher level positions?10:25
ali1234or just out of the community?10:25
ali1234i'm talking about the "community" here10:25
popeydeveloper is a subset of community10:25
Davieydevelopers aren't part of the community.10:26
ali1234is ubuntu members a subset?10:26
popeyI'd say Ubuntu Members are a subset of Community10:26
Davieyit's a crazy Venn!10:26
* christel tickles Daviey 10:26
ali1234so, how do you kick people out of the community who are not even ubuntu members?10:26
* Daviey giggles like a little baby.10:26
christeloh my!10:27
Davieydraw a circle around them in the venn diagram10:27
ali1234it's not about explicitly kicking people out... the problem is disenfranchising them - ie acting like they don't exist when it is convenient10:27
ali1234like when you ask the community to test the beta CD, then community means everyone and their gran10:27
ali1234but when the council is going to consult the community on appointments, then community means ubuntu members10:28
ali1234i don't have a problem with either of these things10:28
czajkowskiare you sure10:28
czajkowskiit sounds like you do10:28
ali1234i just wish you'd stop using community to mean different things at different times10:28
czajkowskiwhy does it bother you so much10:28
popeyi can understand taht10:28
czajkowski*shurgs* often words have multiple meanings10:28
popeyits not clear10:28
popey"we ask the community"10:29
popey"Wait, which bit"10:29
popey"you know, the community"10:29
bigcalmWho's on 3rd?10:29
popeyits hard to define, dunno, maybe we need "active community" and "wider community" or some other more specific terms?10:30
czajkowskipopey: don't forget the inactive community, the ones that have ubuntu membership that just automatically renew10:30
czajkowskithey're also part of a subset of a community10:30
bigcalmPeople will still shorten terms to just 'community'10:30
popeyindeed, hence "or some other more specific terms" :)10:31
ali1234if you really mean "ubuntu member" then what is wrong with writing "ubuntu members"10:31
popeybecause often we dont mean that10:31
popeyi.e. in your beta test example10:31
ali1234but if in some particular instance you do mean that10:31
popeyI want the whole world to test it, not just members10:31
ali1234you can't have one word to global replace community, because then you have the same problem10:31
ali1234just be clear and specific10:31
popeyno, thats not what I said10:31
popeyI said have multiple terms10:31
popeywhich are more clearly defined10:32
ali1234if you mean "everyone in the world" then saying "community" is fine. it's almost always better to be overly specific than to be vague10:32
popeybut then you get people who whine that they're being excluded10:33
popey"You didn't explicitly mention one legged black lesbians!"10:33
ali1234but they're not.10:33
ali1234the problem is when you say "community" to mean "everyone" and then all those people who test the beta CD think they're going to get a vote in the elections because that says community too10:33
popeyfair point10:34
czajkowskiit could also encourage them ali123410:34
czajkowskimany want to get more involved and become ubuntu members10:35
czajkowskijust from getting involved in testing10:35
ali1234yeah but so could telling them you'll give them a million dollars10:35
ali1234and then not giving it to them10:35
czajkowskiI have work to be doing10:35
popeydunno why you're grumpy czajkowski. ali1234 has a point10:36
czajkowskipopey: not grunmp at all do wish you wouldnt say that just when I don't agree10:36
czajkowskiit's a bit dismissive10:36
ali1234funny i feel the same way :/10:37
ali1234anyway let's not get all negative10:37
AlanBellgroup hug10:41
bigcalmHelp, I'm looking at pens and inks again10:45
daubersbigcalm: Look at pron instead! It's cheaper!10:48
bigcalmdaubers: I shall take your word for it ;)10:48
daubershttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19744131 <- pron of the day!10:48
bigcalmAt least I don't buy myself the expensive pens that I give to Hayley10:48
daubersI mean, just look at those sedimentary layers!10:49
dauberssedimentary conglomerates just sounds too rude really10:49
christelczajkowski: i suspect a lot of people dont have the time to commit to being involved in a way which enables them to apply for membership though, even if they are passionate about the distro and all that jazz :)10:49
AlanBellwhich is cool, and valued, they just don't get invited to vote on certain things11:00
christelsure, whilst also causing confusion to some as per ali1234s examples above -- so it might not be as simple as "getting more involved" :)11:03
ali1234it's not just about the confusion. the immediate assumption that anyone who asks questions must have some kind of problem with the system isn't very nice either11:12
ali1234and then the assumption is that they have a problem because they don't understand, so you scream at them to read the FAQ11:13
ali1234but the FAQ uses all the same unclear language11:14
ali1234so this is a self-fulfilling prophecy11:15
AlanBellso, ali1234, thought about applying for membership?11:18
* AlanBell notes that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing has not been updated to reflect the membership board reorganisation11:19
* AlanBell fixes11:23
ali1234AlanBell: i much prefer to be on the outside11:32
ali1234it's not an accident that i haven't signed the CoC either11:33
ali1234you know i had this exact same discussion in #maemo a couple of years ago, and got a similar reaction11:34
christeli am glad to hear that you didnt accidentally not sign the coc! ;)11:34
ali1234they have an automated system for their community council. anyone with more than x karma gets a vote11:34
ali1234but the community council was always totally ignored by nokia, who loved to use "community" to mean diifferent things all the time11:35
ali1234they almost never meant it in the sense of "everyone who bought an n900" and usually they were talking about commercial app developers (so about 3 people, lol)11:35
christeli have contemplated the membership route a few times but i simply don't have enough spare time in my life to commit to making sufficient contributions to pass !11:35
mgdmI was going to once upon a time, but then I got involved in other things11:36
christeli reckon i might have more spare time when the boy wonder goes to uni11:40
christeland/or when i retire11:40
christel(i can dream, right?) :)11:42
bigcalmI'm not sure I'll retire. Just die in a gutter one day will do me11:57
SuperMattdoes anyone know if I can be logged in as the same user twice, once in unity and once in gnome shell?12:09
AlanBellthat is probably a bad idea SuperMatt12:09
AlanBellI wouldn't think logging in twice to Unity with the same home directory would be a good idea either12:13
bigcalmI have a GIT problem. I've been working for so long on a branch, that I need it to fully replace the master without merging stuff. Is that possible?12:22
ali1234bigcalm: "master" is just a branch like any other. you can delete it, and rename your current branch master12:41
ali1234that might screw over anyone who is tracking master though12:41
ali1234otoh that might not matter12:41
bigcalmEveryone else has been working off of the branch12:41
ali1234there's no real reason to rename it12:42
ali1234just carry on using that branch12:42
* daubers fires up abcde12:42
ali1234but if you want to rename it and you can get everyone to cooperate if anything goes wrong, then just do it12:42
ali1234git branch -d master; git checkout -b master12:43
bigcalmMy boss wants our work moved to master12:46
ali1234which master though?12:47
ali1234sounds like what he actually wants is a "blessed" repository12:47
ali1234this is probably what you should do... make a new repo with a new "master" and then push the newest code to it, and call it the blessed repo12:48
bigcalmYeah, seems the neatest way12:48
bigcalmIrritatingly, it'll mean me moving a lot of stuff around in gitlab12:49
ali1234it shouldn't do12:49
ali1234you shouldn't have to move anything at all12:49
ali1234make a new repository then git push mybranch remote/master12:51
ali1234presto, mybranch is now in a branch called master on the remote12:51
ali1234it's still in a branch called mybranch in your loca repo, but nobody needs to ever see that12:51
bigcalmExactly what I needed12:56
ali1234yeah that's for if you have people tracking your repo12:57
ali1234and you want them to get the changes automatically12:57
bigcalmI do12:58
ali1234and that's why you got this problem in the first place12:58
ali1234you shouldn't let people clone your work repo. then you can make whatever branches you want12:58
ali1234and people won't be able to work on them12:58
ali1234insisting that "all work goes into master" under a model like this is the same as saying "do not use branches"12:59
ali1234instead you should be pushing changes from your local branch onto the blessed/master. then nobody can see the name of your local branches13:00
bigcalmIt's all in house. Some devs are active, some aren't. I wanted a method that would just sort it out for everybody. I will have to tell everybody to switch back to the master now13:01
ali1234again, which master?13:01
ali1234if everyone has a branch called master, which one is really the real master?13:01
bigcalmThe one on the remote server13:01
ali1234a branch really is nothing more than a LOCAL bookmark somewhere into the commits13:02
bigcalmWe've moved from SVN to GIT and it's quite possible that we haven't yet worked out how to do things properly :)13:02
ali1234well the big difference is everyone has a full repo13:03
ali1234everyone can make their own branches and there's no requirement for anyone else to pay attention13:03
ali1234everyone can have a completely different master on their machine13:03
ali1234master is a pretty terrible name for it really. it should be called default13:04
ali1234or something even more generic13:04
bigcalmWaited 1.5 hours for a meeting that never happened. LUNCH!13:04
popeybug 105245213:36
lubotu3Error: Launchpad bug 1052452 could not be found13:36
popeystupid bot13:36
pinky-2:45 coffee break, 3 sugars please.13:47
pinky-I read a review for the BSC in Southampton Street, London WC2 and it said, "Great place to learn IT and networking, but crappy printers."13:51
czajkowskipinky-: would be nice if the bot didnt show private bugs alright :/13:52
pinky-maybe crappy printers to stop peeps stealing them?13:53
AlanBellwould be nice if launchpad returned a 403 so the bot could say that the bug is restricted13:53
popeyanyone fancy dogfooding a compiz pre-release for 12.10 before monday?13:55
pinky-yeah 403 is better then 40413:55
czajkowskiAlanBell: there is a whoe thread on this on -dev13:59
SuperMattpopey: dogfooding?14:01
AlanBellpopey: go on then, I will taste the doggy treats14:03
ali1234popey: what do i have to do?14:05
ali1234update to 12.10 presumably14:06
ali1234will it work... on nvidia?14:06
SuperMattI'm happy to test compiz too, considering I'm running dual monitor and super+w has been running slow for me for ages14:07
AlanBellooh, you can read window titles now when zoomed out14:08
ali1234zoomed out?14:08
AlanBellyeah, if you click the launcher icon a few times it wooshes out all the windows for that application type so they are all miles away in the distance, you can now hover over them to reveal what they are14:10
mungojerrygood to see unity is getting updates on 12.04 too14:10
popeysorry, on phone.. brb14:12
popeyOk, so for this hobby you will need 1) a machine running Ubuntu 12.10 and Unity. 2) the ppa:sil2100/prerelease  ppa. 3) Weak lemon drink.14:19
popeydrink your weak lemon drink now!14:19
pinky-and squint with one eye14:19
popeyali1234, SuperMatt AlanBell ^^14:20
SuperMattpopey: on it like a tramp on hot chips14:20
AlanBelloh you didn't tell me it was aquarius stuff when I signed up to this plan!14:21
aquariusahem. not me14:21
aquariussil2100 is someone else :)14:21
AlanBellI will install it then :)14:21
* aquarius is sil on launchpad. No extra numbers for me :)14:21
AlanBellthe original!14:21
gordi prefer later models14:22
gordhas extra ports and higher definition14:22
SuperMattpopey: will I need to restart or can compiz --replace do the trick?14:22
popeyi would logout/in14:23
SuperMattfigured as much14:23
popeyif you find any bugs, ping me14:23
* SuperMatt waits patiently for a copy operation to complete14:23
SuperMattwill do, pikachu14:23
SuperMattwhat's changed exactly?14:26
popeybug fixes mostly14:26
popeybut we want to make sure there's no regressions14:27
popeySuperMatt, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001985.html the "compiz" section there14:31
ali1234popey: is it going to work on nvidia? (not nouveau which doesn't work at all)14:33
popeyshould do14:33
ali1234is testing it with unity a requirement?14:38
SuperMattwell now14:38
ali1234i'm sure i can find lots of bugs with gnome classic (assuming it still exists)14:38
SuperMattit's working fine for me, don't see anything different to how it was. I can only assume it's fixed bugs I haven't come across :P14:38
ali1234you never had the white windows bug?14:39
ali1234(not fixed btw, pushed back to 0.9.9)14:39
SuperMattbut it's still *ludicrously* slow when I have lots of windows and press super+w14:39
SuperMattI've never seen white windows, no14:39
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
mungojerrysaw a viewsonic 22 inch touchscreen running android today, £34914:39
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
bigcalm22" would be good for the bedroom15:05
bigcalmWhich now sound terrible15:06
mungojerrywas a bit sluggish but nice price15:15
mungojerryrunning 4.0, so prob bit better with 4.115:15
SuperMattpopey: I was wrong about my sluggishness not going, it has infact gone completely!15:16
SuperMattmy compiz didn't actually update :P15:16
SuperMattso I forced it and it's working great now15:17
popeywin. thanks, thats good to hear15:17
SuperMattI take it this is going to land before 12.10's release date?15:17
popeyyes, early next week15:20
popeyand unity too next week15:20
SuperMattooh, what's coming?15:20
popeybug fixes :)15:20
popeyi really appreciate the testing15:21
SuperMattno probs15:22
SuperMattthat little bug was driving me up the wall15:22
pinky-new The Hobbit poster.. freaky http://i.imgur.com/jy0dw.jpg15:28
SuperMattproblem with that hobbit poster... I see no hobbit15:28
pinky-yeah I guess, no BIG hairy feet15:30
bigcalmDave2: have you been posing for posters again?15:36
bigcalmI blame christel for that comment15:37
pinky-hehe the idlers in this channel did come to mind and that's what made me post:)15:37
bigcalmNever mind :)15:39
bigcalmWhat hell? A gritter truck just went of the road15:40
daubersbigcalm: Thats not for ice, giant slugs have invaded. Gritter trucks are out best defence!15:41
popeythat poster doesn't conform to the "there are only 13 types of movie poster" rule. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/64047251.html15:41
bigcalmdaubers: heh15:41
pinky-beards are back in fashion, we can all go outside now. I'm getting better every day.15:47
Dave2bigcalm, :(15:47
pinky-walk for miles and never see a smile15:48
* pinky- wanders off and idles15:49
bigcalmDave2: I said I wasn't at fault for the comment ;)15:50
bigcalmchristel is a bad influence15:50
christelbut i've never spoken with pinky- so i dont get how it is my fault :(15:51
bigcalmEh? I was talking about me referring to Dave2 as a hobbit15:51
christeli see, now i am even more lost -- i missed you referring to him as a hobbit!15:52
bigcalmchristel: it was indirect15:53
bigcalm<pinky-> new The Hobbit poster.. freaky http://i.imgur.com/jy0dw.jpg15:53
bigcalm<bigcalm> Dave2: have you been posing for posters again?15:53
pinky-it's based upon the fact that everybody is too serious in here and now we have drama:/ sorry15:53
bigcalmMore confusion I think :)15:54
christelbigcalm: you cant make indirect comments, they are way too subtle for my simple mind ;)15:56
christelpinky-: the internet is for srs drama! ;)15:56
dauberschristel: Are you saying that the internet is HBO?15:57
christelwhy yes! :P15:57
pinky-I'm just gonna keep my trap shut15:59
pinky-and try to stay on-topic at all times16:02
* christel nods16:02
pinky-yes I know it's best16:03
christelyes, fewer people get hurt that way i guess16:03
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
* christel nods16:03
pinky-srs drama is srs business16:03
gebbionewhat software can i use to monitor my adsl connectivity?16:06
bigcalmShort, sweet and to the point16:07
bigcalmgebbione: but you're on a cable connection16:08
gebbionejust remove adsl from my sentence16:09
bigcalmI was nit picking16:09
bigcalmBack to work I go16:09
popeygebbione, what do you want to monitor?16:11
bigcalmGrrrrrrrrrr. I missed the reduced price phpstorm because I was waiting on my boss to get back to me. Grumble, double grumble16:11
gebbionejust create a project on github and get it freee16:11
bigcalmI use it for work, I don't believe in ripping people off if I can avoid it16:12
pinky-swings and roundabouts http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US6368227 and http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US66394816:43
bigcalmI guess the swing as we know it had to be invented at some point16:45
bigcalmThe roundabout is less surprising16:45
christelbigcalm enjoys a spot of swinging.16:45
pinky-yeah there's a lot of roundabout patents and I was looking for a better one for future ref16:45
* bigcalm tickles christel16:46
MartijnVdSMEEP MEEP?16:47
christelWHY HELLO THAR van der S!16:48
MartijnVdSHI Dahlskjaer!16:48
bigcalmHi MartijnVdS16:49
christelhow art thou my fine dutchman? :)16:49
bigcalmWah, almost 6pm again. That's not fair!16:49
MartijnVdSchristel: hungry!16:50
MartijnVdSbut food is in the oven, so only ~15 more minutes!16:53
christelnom! what are you having?16:54
MartijnVdSchristel: I'll post a pic when it's done :)16:55
christelawesome! i love food porn :D16:56
pinky-it's all been done before16:56
MartijnVdSwhoa.. is it dec-21 yet?16:56
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
bigcalmMartijnVdS: what happens on 21st December?16:59
pinky-end of Mayan calander17:00
bigcalmOh, that thing17:00
pinky-10:30pm 21st Dec.17:01
DaraelNo, it isn't.  Not only does the Long Count not actually end for a few hundred years yet, there were references in their prophecies to dates beyond the end of the long count.17:01
bigcalmI think the end of the world will happen in 203817:04
Daraelbigcalm: I like to think we'll be using 64-bit time by then.17:04
christelbigcalm: too early! i'll still be alive and kicking17:04
bigcalmWe'll be 59. Scary thought17:05
pinky-59 again17:06
bigcalmNo, it'll be the 1st time I will be 5917:06
pinky-I wish I was 21 again.. I'd do it all different17:07
MartijnVdSI'll be 57 when 32-bit time_t runs out17:07
MartijnVdSIt's just like the Y2K problem: lots of moneys to be made :)17:07
pinky-I wonder if SuperEngineer can send me back?17:07
Daraelbigcalm: I suppose one could argue that /a/ world will end.17:07
MartijnVdSDarael: "In a world.."17:07
bigcalmHayley be home. Woop!17:08
* bigcalm skips off to spend time with his lovely lady17:08
DaraelMartijnVdS: Well, I was going for the similarity between end-of-an-era and end-of-the-world.  But yes.17:08
christelpinky-: i'm sure i'd do it all the same myself!17:09
pinky-christel, wouldn't you not try to do it all better?17:10
christeli think i'd try to learn how to need less sleep to fit in doing more stuff in the same amount of time perhaps17:11
MartijnVdSchristel: one of those funky sleep cycles?17:13
MartijnVdSchristel: 15 minutes every 2 hours or something17:14
christelooh that'd work17:14
MartijnVdSpolyphasic sleep it's called17:14
MartijnVdSbut apparently it's annoying that other people seem to never be awake17:14
ali1234when i wake up i'm grumpy for 4 hours17:15
MartijnVdSchristel: or http://xkcd.com/320/17:15
ali1234so that would probably be a bad idea for me17:15
MartijnVdSali1234: only 4 hours?! :P17:15
ali1234until lunch time basically17:15
ali1234the only way to avoid this is a full english17:15
pinky-well get one quick as there is going to be a bacon shortage soon17:17
popeyyou need http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ostrich-pillow/ostrich-pillow !17:19
pinky-lol I saw that last week on startup17:19
pinky-and thought "yes!"17:19
MartijnVdSchristel: see G+ :)17:20
* popey backed it :)17:20
christelooh looks tasy17:21
MartijnVdSit is :)17:22
ali1234that better not be what i think it is17:46
pinky-ostrich-pillow: Where have you been all my life? You are my new best friend!17:47
* penguin42 has this odd vision of a monday morning meeting where everyone turns up with one17:49
brobostigonhttp://www.favientertainment.com/v/vspfiles/SmartStick_custom/index.html interesting idea.18:21
ali1234the price is right but as always i want to see a BSP at the very least before i'd buy it :)18:22
matttevening all18:22
matttthought i was going to fall asleep on the commute home18:22
matttand since i drive, not a great thing18:22
brobostigonali1234: bsp ?18:22
ali1234board support package18:23
ali1234basically a firmware development kit18:23
brobostigonali1234: it is android 4.1, why not just get the most recent android sdk ?18:23
ali1234because AOSP doesn't include drivers18:24
ali1234except open source ones18:24
ali1234which probably isn't enough18:24
brobostigonok, fair point.18:24
ali1234BSP is usually just a kernel and some binary modules18:24
ali1234it's what you need to port android, or something else, to a board18:24
daftykinsinteresting idea, you could almost see someone basing that on a raspberry pi and making some moneys18:26
ali1234that device (or a similar one by omeone else) has been in development as long as the pi18:26
ali1234the one that can do video over USB18:27
daftykinshave you seen that the highest end Samsung TVs now have upgrade modules with new chips so you can boost their lifespan a bit?18:29
pinky-I thought this was very interesting http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/28/insert-coin-the-parallella-project/18:30
pinky-whoops just realised I had my page scrolled up and reading old text18:31
=== NimChimpsky is now known as RadiumCat
popeyevening all19:17
brobostigonevening popey19:18
mattthowzit popey19:20
AlanBellanyone know if you have to actually do anything to say you are an equal opportunities employer?19:45
zleaphgmm,  well on school forms in torbay they have equal opportunity monitoring forms19:47
zleapwhich I don't trust with a barge pole, if you don't know may age,  race,  sexual orientation you can't use that information against me19:48
AlanBellyeah, read that earlier, didn't quite answer the question, but I think you can just say you are one if you want to be one19:54
AlanBellnot like investors in people where there is a specific assessment19:54
zleapnot sure how some of this applies to schools19:55
zleapas in if you suffer abuse from the students, and the staff fail to deal with it effectivley  can people sue the school (or at least the headteacher) for damages19:55
AlanBella lot of job adverts have "Foocorp is an equal opportunities employer" at the bottom of the page19:55
AlanBellI think it is almost entirely meaningless19:55
zleapit is19:56
zleaphence so few men work in schools19:56
zleapin fact one or two schools round here have hardly any men working in the school19:56
popeyi dont think "hence" is the word you want there19:56
zleapi still think they discriminate19:57
AlanBellyeah, slightly more complicated situation19:57
AlanBellno, don't think they do really19:57
popeythe reason there is less male teachers is basically pay19:57
AlanBellit is really hard to fix any huge bias once you have a huge bias19:57
popeyyou're either underpaid or you're a manager19:57
AlanBellbut that isn't my point at all19:58
popeyusually teachers are not the breadwinner in the house19:58
AlanBelljust wanted to know if I can use those words without jumping through hoops19:58
DavieyI am not convinced it's simply that.  I don't think teaching tends to interest as many men.19:58
* AlanBell isn't running a school fortunately19:58
zleapwhat about working in schools generally19:59
popeythere's that as well19:59
penguin42AlanBell: Agreed; how many female computer programmers do you know as a % of those you know?19:59
zleapgiven the evidence that men can make a real difference ( esp to kids where there is no father at home)  you would think schools would want to employ men if they appy for jobs19:59
AlanBellpenguin42: quite a high percentage personally :) but that isn't representative20:00
popeyzleap, you're making out like they dont want to20:00
zleapthere isn't a stigma attached to women working as programmers20:00
penguin42AlanBell: Really? Unusual, I think it's probably well under 10% here20:00
AlanBellyeah, but like I say, the set of "people AlanBell knows who know about computers" is a bit distorted20:02
AlanBellanyhow, I think I can just say we are an equal opportunities employer20:02
zleapmost of the people i know who I feel are in anyway compenant are either here or on user grouos20:02
AlanBellanyone called Alan is welcome to apply20:03
zleapin computers that is20:03
zleapthe onky other alan i know is Alan donahue20:04
* christel applies20:04
christel(what am i applying for?)20:04
AlanBella name change to "Alan"20:06
christeli dunno if alan would suit me20:06
christelwhat with being all short and stuff20:06
christelit strikes me as the sort of name a tall person would have20:07
AlanBellyou are tall!20:07
christelshort :(20:07
christelyou only think i'm tall because i always bring Daviey20:07
christelerr Dave2(20:07
christelwhich i do to appear taller20:07
* christel nods20:07
zleapDaviey, long time no chat20:08
Davieyzleap: hey o/20:08
zleapand hi tombrough20:09
DavieyAlanBell: Hey.. Regarding the banner and tablecloth.. You asked me to take it to the office ages ago!20:10
Daviey(so i did)20:10
Davieyand you didn't collect it20:10
AlanBellawesome \o/20:10
* AlanBell will collect it soon20:11
DavieyCezz has it ready.. popey might be able to bring it to you faster, maybe?20:11
AlanBellno tearing hurry, and I want someone to invite me to the new office anyhow20:11
DavieyAlanBell: there was an open invite last night...20:12
popeyyou not been in?20:12
DavieyAlanBell: why'da not come last night?20:13
matttDaviey: did you give a talk at the first openstack meetup?20:13
Davieymattt: i did20:13
AlanBelldon't use openstack20:13
matttAlanBell: why4?20:13
Davieyhaters gotta hate.20:13
matttDaviey: there last night?20:14
Davieymattt: yes20:14
matttDaviey: was good, think having everything in the 1 room is better tho20:14
AlanBellwe have 4 servers running KVM with a bunch of VMs on each20:14
Davieymattt: Entirely agree.. some feedback suggested it, so w gave it a try20:14
AlanBelldon't really know what openstack would give us, apart from requiring 5 machines20:15
matttAlanBell: an API, for starters?  :)20:15
DavieyAlanBell: This time next year, your requirements will be 10000's of physical machines20:15
AlanBellfor what?20:15
DavieyAlanBell: think growth!20:15
matttyeah, you can't world dominate if you have to manually spin up instances :P20:15
AlanBellreally, creating a VM on KVM and installing Ubuntu on it doesn't take long20:16
matttnot the point20:17
AlanBellit is maybe 10 minutes out of a 2 week project20:17
matttAlanBell: but yeah, if you're not thinking of growing much, then considering openstack may be overkill20:18
AlanBellwe are thinking of growing, sure20:18
AlanBellbut we are a services business, not a hosting business20:18
AlanBellwe provide hosting for our consultancy clients20:18
matttwhy not do what heroku etc. do?20:18
matttand just use rackspace/ec2 etc.20:19
AlanBellwe could do, but that is a massively expensive way of getting stuff that is always on20:19
matttthink you said you use hetzner?20:20
matttthey are very cheap20:20
AlanBellEC2 makes sense if you are bursting and your baseload number of machines is quite a lots less than your peak load20:20
AlanBellyeah, they are cheap, and fast and high bandwidth and we rent the hardware so they maintain that20:21
matttyeah, i have a small machine with them, it's been rock solid20:21
penguin42AlanBell: Have you tried doing things like livemigrating between them when you need to service one?20:21
matttlive migrate?  :)20:21
AlanBelldid try that once, didn't work20:22
AlanBellyou need everything on the same subnet and addresses assigned by dhcp for that to work really20:22
penguin42AlanBell: Yeh, I think things like openstack and the like are the type of setups that are supposed to be able to manage stuff like that20:23
penguin42mattt: Move a running vm between hosts without down time20:23
AlanBellyeah, which would mean we have to have all our boxes on the same subnet to run openstack across them20:23
mattti know xenserver has some feature to live migrate w/out shared storage20:24
matttnot fully sure how it works tho20:24
penguin42AlanBell: I've not tried it, but I think what people do is tend to have a separate subnet/vlan for managementy stuff20:24
penguin42mattt: Yeh it does, it copies blocks over as it goes20:24
AlanBellso does KVM, it does work, but makes assumptions about networking20:24
matttdo you get a private IP on hetzner?20:25
mattti don't recall my box having one20:25
AlanBellno, public IPs20:25
matttcould you use some sort of dummy internal network?20:25
mattt(openvpn or whatever)20:25
AlanBelland we get additional blocks of 8 or 16 assigned to the host, and use bridged networking to pass those into the guests20:25
Davieykvm can do shared or non-shared storage migration20:27
AlanBellit is a bit hairy but it works20:27
Daviey(openstack supports both models)20:27
matttbtw, i created #openstack-uk earlier today20:27
matttif any of you lot want to lurk20:27
AlanBellthe other thing is I have no idea how we would go from our current setup to openstack20:28
AlanBelldon't really want to buy 5 new servers and migrate stuff across to it and get rid of the other ones20:28
matttAlanBell: not entirely sure either20:28
matttit'd be possible20:28
matttwith some hacking20:29
AlanBelllast time I looked at the openstack architecture it needed a minimum of 6 hosts to get off the ground with just one of them hosting machines20:29
AlanBellI *think* they have sanitised that a bit now20:29
penguin42AlanBell: Shove the other 5 in a Vm :-)20:29
matttpenguin42: that will work fine20:29
matttwill be running a lot of stuff tho :P20:30
penguin42(nested kvm is quite fun incidentally - just pretty much works on Ubuntu)20:30
AlanBellyeah, I should probably look at the documentation again, it failed the laugh test last time I read it though20:30
matttpenguin42: yeah, i've not really played w/ openstack on my own in a while ... going to set it up on some public cloud servers using qemu or lxc20:31
matttczajkowski: hello20:31
AlanBellhttp://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/compute-system-requirements.html#d6e209 ok, so just one wasted 12GB ram computer20:31
matttthat's recommended20:32
penguin42proxmox is the otherone I've heard people like20:32
matttyou can probably bung it into a 1 GB instance :P20:32
matttAlanBell: let me get this dummy install going on as minimal a setup as possible20:33
penguin42yeh that's unfortunate not to say whether it needs a 12GB RAM machine for 5 hosts or 5020:33
matttAlanBell: i'll be happy to give you a login to test once it's done20:33
AlanBellcool, thanks mattt20:33
mattti've got keystone and glance up and running, need to finish off the nova component20:34
AlanBellI am OK with one wasted computer, that is back to Eucalyptus requirements20:34
AlanBellwhich put me off at the time when we wanted one host20:34
DavieyOpenstack can work from one machine.20:35
matttDaviey: i'd say like 2 GB should be able to run everything right?20:35
mattti mean, you're not going to be competing with amazon20:35
DavieyInfact, i regularly deploy all of openstack, within an openstack cloud, for development20:35
matttbut it should work20:35
AlanBellDaviey: OK, that is really interesting20:35
Daviey(Since Precise, nested kvm has made it more interesting)20:36
zleapDaviey, are you free to attnend any lug meets ?20:36
Davieyzleap: I don't live in Devon anymore :(20:36
Davieynested kvm, is kvm within kvm.20:37
penguin42Daviey: Just one turtle higher in the stack20:37
mattttools to import existing VMs into nova would be nice20:38
matttdo they exist?20:38
zleapDaviey, ok20:39
Davieymattt: that could be done.. but i'd hope that most workloads could be easily migrated.20:39
jpdsDaviey: I think penguin42 means that you need to go deeper.20:40
jpdsmattt: re: 2GB> Depends on what kind of images you want to run.20:42
matttjpds: i'm talking 2 GB dedicated to an instance running nova-compute, sched, network, etc.20:42
penguin42jpds: There's likely to be a real computer at the bottom of the stack somehwere20:42
mattt2 GB is going to be tight w/ mysql and rabbitmq, but it'd work20:42
DavieyIt will run just fine!  Just don't expact more than a handful of instances20:45
jpdsmattt: I meant images == instances.20:45
jpdsmattt: If you want to run Ubuntu, good luck with more than a few on 2GB.20:45
jpdsmattt: On the other hand, a handful of https://launchpad.net/cirros images would work fine.20:46
matttjpds: nice, not heard of cirros20:47
matttwhat's under the hood?20:47
Davieyerr, cirros only exists as a minimal development image.. Not for production usage20:47
Davieyheck, it has root with a public known password.20:48
Daviey(It is made by someone on my team)20:48
jpdsDaviey: For testing, it's good.20:48
matttbut what's it based on?20:48
jpdsmattt: Ubuntu.20:48
matttstill handy20:49
AlanBellwhat is the openstack host upgrade story?21:02
AlanBellis that scary?21:02
matttAlanBell: not sure myself21:04
matttAlanBell: i think it may have been a bit rough at first21:05
matttbut i'm sure things have stabilized a lot21:05
AlanBellnon-scary upgrades is *very* important feature21:06
AlanBelllive migration might help with that21:06
AlanBellif you can shuffle all the machines off a host, upgrade it, shuffle them back that would be cool21:06
matttyou're talking about your host machines?21:06
matttor upgrading your nova-* services (and underlying tables etc.)21:07
AlanBellor do you need to run all the hosts at the same level?21:07
matttwell, i'd run as little on my host machines as possible21:07
matttand only reboot for critical security issues21:07
mattteven then, you can save instances to disk, reboot, start them back up again21:07
matttand disruption to clients should be relatively minimal21:08
matttheh, reminds me of my hetzner box21:08
AlanBellyeah, we are running 10.04 on most of our hosts, and nothing runs on the host. I need to do a 12.04 upgrade but that is a bit scary21:08
matttthey emailed to say they had to move my server to another datacentre21:09
mattta few weeks go by, and i remember my box should have been moved21:09
mattti check my instance which i irc from etc ... uptime > 300 days21:09
matttso figured they cancelled the maintenance21:09
mattthopped onto my dom0 a few days later, realized it HAD been shut down21:09
matttbut my instances were saved when they powered down the host and restored when it booted back up, so it looked like my instances never went down :)21:10
AlanBellnot sure I would just suspend the VMs and do a 12.04 upgrade21:10
AlanBellthough maybe I could21:10
AlanBellleave them running, do the upgrade, suspend, reboot, turn on again?21:10
matttyeah, that is kinda scary :)21:11
AlanBellmaybe I will try that on my laptop or something21:11
matttwas just about to say that21:11
mattti'd test it first21:11
matttbefore you corrupt instances or something21:12
mattti guess the worst thing that'd happen is you can't resume from the memory dump?21:12
matttat which point, you just boot them up normally21:12
AlanBellyeah, so they all take a hard shutdown (no big deal)21:12
matttlet me know how it goes :)21:13
AlanBellthe worst that could happen is that something in the upgrade messes up the networking configuration and I have to spend some time putting it back together21:13
AlanBellor really bad would be the host gets stuck at a grub prompt somehow :)21:14
matttyeah, if you test it on a dummy box at home hopefully you can catch the glaring issues that will result from the upgrade21:14
AlanBellif openstack made stuff like that entirely routine that would be good21:16
matttAlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuServer#From_10.04_to_12.0421:17
matttactually, skip down to 'Known Issues'21:18
AlanBellyeah, read that and it works in general21:18
matttAlanBell: as far as i understand it, openstack doesn't address any of these issues21:18
AlanBell10.04 to 12.04 works fine and I have upgraded a number of the guests that way21:18
AlanBellit is just a little more tense to do it to the host21:19
matttnah, it talks about kvm configurations not working after the upgrade21:19
mattt"If you are running a KVM host with libvirt and are upgrading from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS to 12.04 LTS you may find that some existing virtual machines are no longer recognized (virsh list --all). A change to each guest's XML file may be needed, related to how console and serial devices are now configured. (931350)"21:19
AlanBellooh, yeah, that would be a bit of a worry!21:20
matttthe way you handle host upgrades will differ depending on what OS you run, whether you're using xen/kvm, etc.21:20
matttso i'm not sure openstack will solve these problems, but hopefully some best practices will emerge21:20
AlanBellthanks for pointing that one out, simple fix but that would be a real worry to see!21:21
matttyeah, that would give you a fright :)21:23
lubotu3another contentless ping... sigh...21:43
lubotu3pong is an old atari game. It's fun!22:00
dogmatic69google has far to much money and/or spare time22:54
pinky-ostrich-pillow: I will love you longtime!23:04
pinky-good night all23:05
brobostigonnos da everyone, sleep well.23:12
sql-enginehello from sql-engine I am a bot23:15
sql-enginehello from sql-engine I am a bot23:16
sql-enginehello from sql-engine I am a bot23:17
penguin42AlanBell: Do you know anything about driving the accessibility interfaces on KDE apps? I've just found Konsole has an interface for adding a selection via it and wonderd what can drive it23:17
sql-enginehello from sql-engine I am a bot23:18
sql-enginegoodbye from sql-engine bot23:18
penguin42whoever runs that bot, can you please try it in a private channel23:18

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