[00:28] wow, maybe that ultraparanoid guy in here the other day was actually right [00:32] which one? [00:33] is £580 too much to spend on scalextric? [00:33] errr, wrong chan [00:34] yes, it is too much [00:34] ;p [00:35] penguin42: i forgot his name but he claimed that the government kept installing some monitoring software on his PC using fake adobe updates, and that's why he switched to linux... but then ubuntu offered him a (legit) flash update [00:35] ah [00:35] at least legit in the sense it was correctyly signed by canonical [00:35] hehe, that was amusing [00:36] ali1234: Adobe did say that they believed it was only Windows & Mac versions that were signed (and I'm not sure what products) - but hey [00:36] well [00:36] that means *adobe* only signed windows and mac software with it. the people who stole it could have used it to sign anything [00:37] i forgot te name of the tracking software he claimed to have... let me check logs... [00:38] still don't think it is a reason to not update stuff from the official ubuntu sources [00:38] absolutely not [00:38] and by not doing so his machine was less secure [00:38] which i pointed out :) [00:38] ali1234: No, what Adobe reported was that the breakin managed to sign stuff on the machine, and that the key was held in a hardware cryptography module that hadn't been compromised, so the key itself wasn't released [00:38] penguin42: ah i see [00:38] fair enough then [00:40] finspy [02:06] can i enable "focus follows mouse" for just some specific windows? [02:06] specifically "all blender windows" [02:07] (with compiz) [06:13] hey everyone [07:34] TGIF people ! [07:38] +1 [07:46] anyone know how to turn off touchpad scrolling in Lubuntu [07:51] did it with synclient \o/ [07:52] I was going to suggest gpointing-device-settings [07:53] morning all, I just see on news Hamilton is moving to Mercedes.. oh what a fool [07:53] hehe, just needed to turn off vert scroll, it does not work well at all on this elonex webbook :P === TheOpenSourcerer is now known as theopensourcerer [07:57] lol, you bought one of those pieces of crap? [07:57] morning theopensourcerer [07:58] \o/ popey [07:58] theopensourcerer, popey :) [07:58] hullu hullu [07:58] It's FFFFRRRRIIIIDDDDAAAAYYYY :-D [07:59] And end of the month - Invoicing day :-D :-D :-D [07:59] Payday :-D [07:59] Expenses day :-D [07:59] indeed (to all of the above!) [07:59] :) [07:59] and in my case "boy wonder going away to see the inlaws for the weekend" day! tomorrow i shall SLEEP [07:59] * AlanBell hunts for receipts and tickets and such [08:00] lol [08:00] AlanBell: i want to go film more stuff! i had so much fun yesterday [08:01] * theopensourcerer keeps his expenses record up-to-date on OpenERP so has only a few more items to add from yesterday [08:01] What were you filming christel? === iahmad is now known as iahmad|lunch [08:02] kewl - http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/a-new-google-app-gives-you-local-information-before-you-ask-for-it/ [08:02] Is there any way to make it so that you don't need to type your password to connect to a wifi network? [08:02] a couple of scenes for our next movie! we were filming tom price :) [08:02] the guy who played PC Andy in torchwood [08:02] he was great [08:02] theopensourcerer: fun :) [08:03] christel: Were you up at the Bourne Woods then? [08:03] i was knackered afterwards mind, but it was so much fun [08:03] we filmed out in lasham at black hangar studios [08:03] "knackered" such a British word... Anyone would think you were a native ;-) [08:03] hehe [08:04] "It’s always running in the background, so it knows where you are..." [08:11] This sounds great - $99 16 core, 13Ghz 26 gigaflops - want it. arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/99-raspberry-pi-sized-supercomputer-touted-in-kickstarter-project/ [08:14] Happy Friday, folks! :-D [08:15] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone [08:15] 1m45s [08:15] Ubuntu desktop :) [08:15] herrro [08:22] I'm at dentist later for checkup, ett-ho [08:22] popey: That looks really cool. I think Libertus Solutions should support that project. Will discuss with AlanBell shortly. [08:25] morning morning morning === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:35] Ok, you can relax, I have returned! [08:38] oh good! ;) [08:38] * mattt relaxes [08:38] Now that's a wink to be concerned about [08:41] Hey Miss czajkowski - What's the higlights in the CC changes? [08:42] CC changes [08:42] ? [08:42] CC? [08:42] do you mean the Code of Coduct ? [08:42] That would be coc [08:42] CoC [08:43] CC, to me, is Credit Card or Creative Commons [08:43] or community council [08:43] Or Carbon Copy [08:43] czajkowski: Yeah, that one :) [08:43] The blog post I saw called it CC...... so I just went with the herd [08:44] daubers: anyways to answer your question, we took the feedback we had received at UDS last in our session and put that in so removed some wording and replaced some of the word ubuntu in there to make reusable also [08:44] Laney: have you see the call for more feedback based on the UDS session [08:44] the what? [08:44] no [08:44] czajkowski: Ah ok, so mainly rewording of the same statements? [08:45] daubers: plus FA-like fines for racial abuse [08:45] it's at the bottom [08:45] daubers: I think this one merges the original code of conduct with the separate leadership code of conduct so the diff is quite large [08:45] Laney: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback [08:45] AlanBell: well no we had done that merge months ago and that was already out there [08:46] so was he talking about the chance since before last uds to now ? [08:46] oh, fridge [08:46] or in general [08:46] oh OK, in that case a diff should work [08:46] czajkowski: can you edit that? [08:46] the fridge calendar [08:46] no [08:46] I see a license has been added to the bottom too [08:46] who can? [08:46] it is in fact evil [08:46] dholbach [08:46] ta [08:46] Laney: whats wrong ? [08:47] we moved some dmb meetings [08:47] a brief scan show nothing I object to, so I shall carry on as if nothing had happened :) [08:47] Laney: ahh go to #ubuntu-news [08:47] and see their wiki [08:47] Laney: tells you how to do stuff [08:48] can I just abuse dholbach directly :-) [08:50] daubers: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sabdfl/ubuntu-codeofconduct/v2-draft/revision/27?remember=25 [08:50] I think [08:52] Laney: bet sponsor him then poke him [08:52] that way he'll favour being abused :p [08:52] I donated to his marathon thing; he's my bitch now :> [08:53] czajkowski: you are now known as "cz" on #ubuntu-devel thanks to Laney [08:55] what happened to #ubuntu-uk meetings? [08:56] * czajkowski smacks Laney [08:56] I didn't start it! [08:56] Laney: xnox is telling tales on you [08:57] mattt: I think work got in the way for everybody [08:57] mattt: I know that's what happened to me [08:57] czajkowski: at 12 minutes past the irclogs will update and you can check for your self ;-) [08:57] czajkowski: maybe it's a hint you should hangout on #ubuntu-devel ...... [08:58] bigcalm: yeah, it's been a busy year for a lot of people :-/ === iahmad|lunch is now known as iahmad [08:58] nothing stopping someone running meetings :) [08:58] popey: true, let us know when the next one is then [08:58] Haha [08:59] point [08:59] missed [08:59] entirely [08:59] popey: I don't think it was ;) [08:59] yeah, we should start up meetings again [08:59] * mattt looks at popey [08:59] I think they were too frequent and after a couple of just me talking to myself I kind of didn't get round to scheduling the next one [09:00] When I was able to attend, I found myself to be quite vocal :S [09:00] mattt: organise one if you'd like :) [09:00] then people can turn up [09:00] when would be good for people? [09:00] I'm surprised we didn't have one at oggcamp [09:00] czajkowski: popey's got it under control [09:01] bah [09:02] :P [09:02] AlanBell: personally, after 8 is best [09:02] day of week is irrelevant [09:03] I would say during office hours, but I don't think my boss would agree [09:03] bigcalm: yeah, too many distractions at work [09:04] mattt: feel free to edit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda [09:04] lets have a discussion just after Quantal gets released [09:04] AlanBell: sure, i'll need to look at previous meetings to see what the threads were [09:05] it'd also be nice to figure out what people want from meetings [09:07] hmm, trying to repartition my laptop, it has an extended partition inside of which is an "unknown" 3.6GB partition, any ideas what that might be? [09:08] A recovery drive? [09:08] it's a Ubuntu install [09:08] I out of ideas then :) [09:08] guess I'll just take the crazy approach and delete it [09:09] why not mount it and have a look? [09:09] I can't, gparted can't even see what it is [09:09] does Ubuntu usually need any partitions besides the ext4 to boot? === AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 19/10/2012 20:00 [09:10] I'm guessing not, since my PC only has the EXT4 [09:10] it's probably swap that went wrong, that's my guess [09:11] Seems a bit large to be a swap, and in an extended partition? It would be quite wrong indeed [09:12] * Azelphur shrugs [09:12] my data is all in ext4 anyway, so it can go [09:13] * AlanBell enjoys waiting for remotely rebooted servers to respond to ping [09:14] too large to be swap? [09:14] Swap: 8267772k total [09:14] :) [09:14] 3.6GB isn't large for swap? [09:14] not really [09:14] Not too large, just seems a bit large for swap [09:14] * Azelphur shrugs [09:18] popey: you just living on kickstarter these days finding all sorts of odd stuff :) [09:23] heh [09:24] i enjoy kickstarter, yes [09:24] and indiegogo [09:24] http://www.indiegogo.com/nexphone?a=1051579 not looking good [09:26] Too many android phones already out there maybe [09:26] i think the ubuntu wiki needs a tickle [09:32] good morning everyone. [09:32] * czajkowski slaps Laney Laura TM [09:32] really [09:33] Morning brobostigon [09:34] morning bigcalm [09:34] har de har [09:34] Laney: lets see what happens when you ask for stuff in my channel mister :p [09:34] cheeky fecker [09:35] * Laney screams HUMANITY TO OTHERS and runs away [09:35] very special lad [09:37] AlanBell: changed the date, hope that's ok [09:38] that will clash with everyone being in a pub in London :) [09:40] AlanBell: bleh ... think people will attend on a friday? [09:40] AlanBell: how about the wednesday? [09:40] sure [09:40] AlanBell: what is happening on the thurs? [09:40] mattt: release party ? [09:41] still trying to sort that out exactly, I think it will be going to a nominated pub [09:42] nothing more organised than that really, it doesn't work for us with release parties [09:42] czajkowski: i have no idea, hence asking :) [09:42] had i known, i wouldn't have asked! [09:42] AlanBell: ok, thanks [09:42] might try to do something more like the other teams do later in the year, more of an installfest type thing [09:43] we just can't do it on release day because the Canonical team just want to go to the pub [09:43] 4K! [09:44] AlanBell: well you're not tied to going to a pub either, just the uk loco has in the past just merged it into one event [09:44] it used to be a sprint week for release but not as many come for the week now [09:44] seemingly finding a pub with nice ales is a way to get them to come as well :) [09:45] nah [09:45] Laney: 5K walks usually not 4K that's -1K and cheating [09:45] thats more likely to get nerds coming [09:45] wouldn't want that [09:48] AlanBell: perhaps the following week after launch is best then [09:49] the problem we had historically is we would like canonical people to come along, but they generally just want to go to a bar/pub and drink & eat and not give talks or do computer stuff [09:49] exactly [09:49] and setting up an event in competition to a pub night really isn't going to end well [09:50] exactly [09:50] we could do something a week later [09:50] yes [09:50] I think that would be a good idea [09:50] btw i was referring to meeting, not pub/in-person meetup [09:50] oh, right [09:51] i don't know enough about your ubuntu ways to dictate when in person things happen :) [09:51] i know you guys have a tight way of doing things around here [09:51] not that tight [09:51] !12.10 [09:51] Ubuntu 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) will be the 17th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1 [09:51] anyone can organise stuff [09:52] AlanBell: true, but it needs to be done right [09:52] otherwise it's just a waste of time [09:52] hmm. [09:52] * popey will be in denmark the week after release [09:53] popey: great, we can use your house then [09:53] hmm thought it was the 18th [09:53] release wiki and relase party say 18th [09:53] 17th release? [09:54] ah nm getting date and release number mixed up [09:54] * mattt stares at czajkowski [09:54] :P [09:54] please don't [09:54] most odd [09:54] ok, i'm bumping this meeting date forward, we can move it around later if it's not convenient [09:55] sorry for all the change spam you guys are receiving [09:55] 1) 4.10, 2) 5.04, 3) 5.10, 4) 6.06, 5) 6.10, 6) 7.04, 7) 7.10, 8) 8.04, 9) 8.10, 10) 9.04, 11) 9.10, 12) 10.04, 13) 10.10, 14) 11.04, 15) 11.10, 16) 12.04, 17) 12.10 *\o/* [09:56] pompoms! [09:58] so i've got a question. "Nominations to the boards and councils are at the discretion of the Community Council, however the Community Council will seek the input of the community before confirming appointments." - how exactly will the council do that? and again, who exactly are they talking about when they say "community" there? [09:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing [09:59] they are talking about members of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers [09:59] AlanBell: yes, that's what i suspected [09:59] and what they mean is that they will hold a vote, but reserve the right to ignore the results [09:59] and who decides who gets to be an ubuntu member? [09:59] the membership boards [10:00] !membership [10:00] Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community. For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership [10:00] ultimately it all comes back to the council [10:00] so the council (ultimately) chooses who gets to vote and still reserves the right to ignore the results :) [10:00] sure [10:01] i just wish that everyone would stop using "community" interchangable to mean "ubuntu members" and "everyone who uses ubuntu" [10:02] that's really all i want. too much? [10:02] yup [10:02] look at the link I gave [10:02] it doesn't mean ubuntu members [10:03] Laney: the link you gave does not mention anything about the council "consulting the community" [10:03] * AlanBell thinks all those groups are proper subsets of ubuntumembers [10:03] and indeed it only uses the word community in the sense of "Community Council" [10:04] it tells you who will be polled [10:04] how about you read it instead of using the find feature of your browser [10:05] Laney: um, how about you actually answer my question instead of being obtuse. hint: the answer isn't on that page [10:05] i've read it several times [10:05] nah i've got a better option [10:05] te page does not define the "community" (lower case C) nor does it define how the Community Council (upper case C) will consult it [10:06] so please, stop telling me to read a page that doesn't answer any of my questions [10:06] further more, every group of people who would be polled is a subset of ubuntu members [10:07] I can't read "further more" without thinking it's part of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue [10:08] not that "who will be polled" has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with the question i asked [10:12] ali1234: so the point of ubuntumembers is to define a pollable voting group really [10:13] all i hear is what it doesn't mean [10:14] an open vote to the reddit/slashdot community probably isn't a particularly useful way of getting the opinion of people who are interested in the success of the project [10:14] well quite [10:14] i never said it was [10:15] the ubuntu community isn't everyone who uses ubuntu [10:15] you're doing it again [10:15] it is everyone who considers themseves a stakeholder in the project [10:15] the ubuntu community is like scotch mist [10:15] only because I typed it on two lines :) [10:18] to me it feels a lot like the definition is intentionally vague so that it can constantly be modified to include/exclude undesirables [10:19] ali1234: are you an undesirable? :o [10:19] yes [10:19] i think its kept vauge so we don't exclude people [10:20] popey: partly [10:20] i.e. if we explicitly said "the community is people who are active in their loco, forum members, developers etc" then that might discount someone who does great advocacy but doesn't fall into those buckets [10:20] and new groups come up all the time [10:20] e.g. AskUbuntu [10:22] yes [10:23] so when we "consult the community" we're frequently asking anyone/everyone, not just Ubuntu Members [10:24] it also means that someone who contributes constantly can be excluded for unstated reasons if they disagree with the leadership [10:24] i've never seen that happen [10:24] and they can't say "well, i do all the things on the CoC" [10:24] i've seen people excluded for stated reasons [10:24] but actually we don't do a very good job of kicking people out [10:25] we've had destructive people hang around and cause pain and trouble for people for a long time [10:25] kicking them out? [10:25] and had to go to some lengths to exclude [10:25] kicking them out of what though? [10:25] out of ubuntu members or higher level positions? [10:25] or just out of the community? [10:25] higher [10:25] developer [10:25] i'm talking about the "community" here [10:25] developer is a subset of community [10:26] developers aren't part of the community. [10:26] :) [10:26] is ubuntu members a subset? [10:26] I'd say Ubuntu Members are a subset of Community [10:26] naturally. [10:26] it's a crazy Venn! [10:26] * christel tickles Daviey [10:26] so, how do you kick people out of the community who are not even ubuntu members? [10:26] * Daviey giggles like a little baby. [10:27] oh my! [10:27] draw a circle around them in the venn diagram [10:27] it's not about explicitly kicking people out... the problem is disenfranchising them - ie acting like they don't exist when it is convenient [10:27] sure [10:27] examples? [10:27] like when you ask the community to test the beta CD, then community means everyone and their gran [10:28] but when the council is going to consult the community on appointments, then community means ubuntu members [10:28] i don't have a problem with either of these things [10:28] are you sure [10:28] it sounds like you do [10:28] i just wish you'd stop using community to mean different things at different times [10:28] heh [10:28] why does it bother you so much [10:28] i can understand taht [10:28] *shurgs* often words have multiple meanings [10:28] its not clear [10:29] "we ask the community" [10:29] "Wait, which bit" [10:29] "you know, the community" [10:29] :) [10:29] Who's on 3rd? [10:30] its hard to define, dunno, maybe we need "active community" and "wider community" or some other more specific terms? [10:30] popey: don't forget the inactive community, the ones that have ubuntu membership that just automatically renew [10:30] they're also part of a subset of a community [10:30] People will still shorten terms to just 'community' [10:31] indeed, hence "or some other more specific terms" :) [10:31] if you really mean "ubuntu member" then what is wrong with writing "ubuntu members" [10:31] because often we dont mean that [10:31] i.e. in your beta test example [10:31] but if in some particular instance you do mean that [10:31] I want the whole world to test it, not just members [10:31] you can't have one word to global replace community, because then you have the same problem [10:31] just be clear and specific [10:31] no, thats not what I said [10:31] I said have multiple terms [10:32] which are more clearly defined [10:32] if you mean "everyone in the world" then saying "community" is fine. it's almost always better to be overly specific than to be vague [10:33] perhaps [10:33] but then you get people who whine that they're being excluded [10:33] "You didn't explicitly mention one legged black lesbians!" [10:33] but they're not. [10:33] the problem is when you say "community" to mean "everyone" and then all those people who test the beta CD think they're going to get a vote in the elections because that says community too [10:34] fair point [10:34] it could also encourage them ali1234 [10:35] many want to get more involved and become ubuntu members [10:35] just from getting involved in testing [10:35] yeah but so could telling them you'll give them a million dollars [10:35] and then not giving it to them [10:35] *sigh* [10:35] I have work to be doing [10:36] dunno why you're grumpy czajkowski. ali1234 has a point [10:36] popey: not grunmp at all do wish you wouldnt say that just when I don't agree [10:36] it's a bit dismissive [10:37] jeez [10:37] funny i feel the same way :/ [10:37] anyway let's not get all negative [10:41] group hug [10:44] :) [10:45] Help, I'm looking at pens and inks again [10:48] bigcalm: Look at pron instead! It's cheaper! [10:48] daubers: I shall take your word for it ;) [10:48] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19744131 <- pron of the day! [10:48] At least I don't buy myself the expensive pens that I give to Hayley [10:49] I mean, just look at those sedimentary layers! [10:49] sedimentary conglomerates just sounds too rude really [10:49] czajkowski: i suspect a lot of people dont have the time to commit to being involved in a way which enables them to apply for membership though, even if they are passionate about the distro and all that jazz :) [11:00] which is cool, and valued, they just don't get invited to vote on certain things [11:03] sure, whilst also causing confusion to some as per ali1234s examples above -- so it might not be as simple as "getting more involved" :) [11:12] it's not just about the confusion. the immediate assumption that anyone who asks questions must have some kind of problem with the system isn't very nice either [11:13] and then the assumption is that they have a problem because they don't understand, so you scream at them to read the FAQ [11:14] but the FAQ uses all the same unclear language [11:14] bonjournai! [11:15] so this is a self-fulfilling prophecy [11:18] so, ali1234, thought about applying for membership? [11:19] * AlanBell notes that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing has not been updated to reflect the membership board reorganisation [11:23] * AlanBell fixes [11:32] AlanBell: i much prefer to be on the outside [11:33] it's not an accident that i haven't signed the CoC either [11:34] you know i had this exact same discussion in #maemo a couple of years ago, and got a similar reaction [11:34] i am glad to hear that you didnt accidentally not sign the coc! ;) [11:34] they have an automated system for their community council. anyone with more than x karma gets a vote [11:35] but the community council was always totally ignored by nokia, who loved to use "community" to mean diifferent things all the time [11:35] they almost never meant it in the sense of "everyone who bought an n900" and usually they were talking about commercial app developers (so about 3 people, lol) [11:35] i have contemplated the membership route a few times but i simply don't have enough spare time in my life to commit to making sufficient contributions to pass ! [11:36] I was going to once upon a time, but then I got involved in other things [11:40] i reckon i might have more spare time when the boy wonder goes to uni [11:40] and/or when i retire [11:42] (i can dream, right?) :) [11:57] I'm not sure I'll retire. Just die in a gutter one day will do me [12:09] does anyone know if I can be logged in as the same user twice, once in unity and once in gnome shell? [12:09] that is probably a bad idea SuperMatt [12:10] yeah? [12:10]