=== JanC_ is now known as JanC [15:57] I think fedora is taking the chance that none of us will talk about fedora. ;) [15:58] So - mhall119, here? [15:58] me4oslav he's out raising money for charity. [15:58] snwh - Ahh, today is the day for that? [15:59] No, Oct. 4. but they have to get the money first. [16:00] snwh - I see, anyway, you saw this, right? https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/PmtcGT1cCrD [16:05] m4oslav I have [16:05] me4oslav* [16:06] snwh - so, we can start doing the basic questionary? [16:06] me4oslav yes [16:07] snwh-phone snwh - So, target audience - what kind of people will use this app? For what OS it will be built? To which HIG it has to stick? [16:08] Every kind of people me4oslav. And i assume given Michael hall came up with the idea we ought to develop for Ubuntu [16:09] It is note taking. I personally dont use note apps though haha [16:10] agreed [16:11] snwh-phone snwh So we need an application that will be designed for Ubuntu and should be target at mass audience of users? [16:13] we shouldn't limit our audience. but target the average user; ease of use ought to be a priority [16:13] ubuntu is the safe ground given the user base percentage [16:13] it can be ported down the road. [16:14] snwh - So, we need Menubar => appmenu => hud. Unity integration. Sticking to Ubuntu's HIG (e.g. sticking to the thing that doesn't exist) :) [16:14] at the _very least_ [16:16] me4oslav we ought to build a stable app. then integrate it [16:16] snwh - Yup. Now we need Michael here :) To give us access to his balsamiq sketches :) [16:16] not sacrificing stability for integration [16:16] very [16:17] I ought to use a different nickname for my snwh-phone to make it look like some agrees with me all the time. [16:18] snwh :D Now we gotta have a look at some other note taking apps [16:18] me4oslav at least we have his g+ post [16:18] Tomboy, Gnote.. [16:18] lets not use Mono haha [16:18] snwh - Have you seen "The Board" [16:18] don't like it [16:19] Why :) [16:20] snwh - No Mono, there isn't a Mono GTK 3 binding [16:20] me4oslav -don't like cork [16:20] :P [16:20] the apps need to be GTK 3 [16:20] me4oslav what if we made an app that would occupy a workspace and act much like a "widget board" [16:21] me4oslav - i know i was just taking a jab at mono [16:21] to emulate Mac OS for a moment. [16:22] :D snwh - I like the idea of Interactive app. Some people might kill us for being slightly inconsistent, but damn it - Lightread did won the app-showdown [16:22] did win* [16:23] we might be being too ambitious, haha [16:23] swnh - Have you seen Postman app? [16:23] for iphone? [16:24] snwh - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/postman-photo-uploader-adds-google-picasa-support [16:24] so... garish... ugh [16:25] snwh - I meant the behaviour - drag and drop and etc... [16:25] yes that [16:25] obviously it looks out of place with the current graphics they used [16:25] here's a picture, link, shorcut document... [16:25] drag to our app and it's posted [16:26] on this "board" [16:26] what if Ubuntu had that built in... [16:27] we ought to propose this for 13.04 :P [16:27] snwh - So we need some "desk space" to were to stick the notes [16:28] snwh - some idea how to come up with pretty and usable d'n'd UX [16:28] yes. another icon like the workspace unity one that you can drag stuff too like a pin board [16:28] "Unity Pin Board" haha [16:29] snwh - categorization for the "Desk space" (by date, by type ....) and a pretty design for the desk space texture [16:29] and it could open a fullscreen app that mimics the Dash [16:30] (I love brainstorming) [16:30] snwh - we need Fullscreen UX? :) Lets leave that aside for now [16:31] me4oslav - it could be part of unity [16:31] snwh - regarding the integration with services, what else do we need except Ubuntu one? And yes - Unity lens is needed [16:31] me4oslav -what if it was just a lens? [16:32] a notes lens [16:32] snwh - people will take our ribcages out. Lens won't quite cut it, not powerful enough [16:33] let me mock up my idea [16:33] snwh - OK [16:35] me4oslav - ill do that later [16:36] snwh - OK :) I will just think of d'n'd UX [16:36] dnd? [16:36] drag and drop [16:36] yea [16:37] given the unity trash has drag and drop. if somehow we could emulate that -but not send to trash but send it to this app [16:38] Write a note > drag it to the launcher icon - it's posted on our app UI [16:39] * me4oslav is just thinking ... randomly, but still :D [16:39] "Oh I'm in chrome, i like this website" drag the url > the app creates a favourite link. [16:40] me4oslav drag and drop text of any sort [16:40] and it could parse urls from plain text [16:40] and make either a note or a link [16:41] for later [16:41] snwh - use cases aside ... I am just thinking about the UI of the d'n'd Obviously we need URL d'n'd et all [16:42] * snwh is over brainstorming [16:42] me4oslav - i'll come back to earth [16:43] mhall119 mentioned wanted stacking or rolling of notes [16:44] snwh - define "stacking and rolling notes" [16:45] me4oslav, as you would have a stack of notes that are similar in subject or etc. [16:45] in his mockups he had a "note roll" [16:45] and the notes within it [16:45] snwh - categorization? I mentioned that at the beginning :) [16:45] me4oslav it's not categorization per se [16:47] snwh - then? [16:47] me4oslav if it were categorized it would be user defined. [16:48] no pre-existing categories except maybe time [16:50] snwh - aha, I figured it out. Now back to d'n'd [16:53] me4oslav - drag-n-drop should be straight forward enough [16:53] snwh - you're such a captain obvious :D [16:54] me4oslav -what are you envisioning? [16:55] * snwh is such a Captain Obvious [16:55] snwh - "a la Postaman", but tons prettier (the one in there is *ugly*) [16:56] me4oslav - yes. no skeuomorphism [16:57] snwh - HA! :P [16:58] snwh - so d'n'd - we have to use the mouse acceleration, so our d'n'd bar has to be at the bottom (I think) [16:59] "bar" [16:59] me4oslav Postman is making me cringe [17:00] stamps [17:00] snwh - that's why I said ours needs to be _better_ [17:01] me4oslav - i think if it were along the lines of The Board [17:04] snwh - I am thinking of "bar" at the bottom of the "desk space" with monochrome transparent icons of the services provided there [17:04] when the users starts dragging the icons become 100% opaque and when you go with the note over one of them it enlarges [17:05] snwh - just a very early idea, might suck for all I know :D [17:06] me4oslav - why not just have autoupload to services [17:06] or Sync with Ubuntu One [17:07] snwh - what other service do we need, but UbuntuOne? [17:07] none haha [17:07] mine would work with at least 5, with just one it sucks [17:07] but notes are temporary things [17:08] just having them upload to all sorts of services seems pointless. [17:08] syncronizing across ubuntu machines on the other hand is something else. [17:10] me4oslav - how i think of a note system is something you want to remind you for a little while or to keep for a bit but throw out eventually. So turnover of content would be high [17:11] uploading to picasa, gdocs, flickr, etc. wouldnt ideal since youd just flood it with stuff [17:12] anything seriously worth uploading theyd use a different app for. [17:12] snwh - so we need _only_ Ubuntu One syncing? [17:12] or dropbox perhaps [17:13] we could focus on U1 [17:13] dropbox has Notes syncing? [17:13] file syncing [17:13] a folder of txt files called notes or something [17:14] that's terrible Dropbox hack. Don't like it [17:14] U1 [17:14] thats what my phone does for photos: A folder called Camera Uploads [17:15] and for U1 if i wanted [17:17] so, I will just scrap the off-going OTB UX [17:17] we just need ingoing [17:18] you create a note in our app > it creates a text file in a folder that syncronizes with ubuntu one > on another machine with u1 and our app the txt file is synced and our app read the folder when its ran and it appears within the app interface [17:18] wehn opened [17:18] we'd have a daemon that checks periodically for changes [17:19] what if the the suer doesn't want auto-sync? [17:19] then they disable it [17:19] it'd be an opt-in feature of course [17:19] Which would break our hall interactive UX [17:20] the interactivity would be the adding of content to the app === kamil_ is now known as kamilnadeem [17:20] :-) [17:20] via dnd [17:20] Hi Everyone [17:20] hi, kamil [17:21] hello [17:21] Where has the discussion reached? [17:21] snwh: Hi [17:21] a crossroads [17:21] I joke :P [17:21] anyway, snwh - the ingoing D'n'd is pretty straightforward [17:22] me4oslav - yes [17:22] the stacking, categorization are up to be. You can take care of the background deisgn and the notes sheets [17:22] design [17:23] I saw *hall post about it earlier(Anonymity of the person must be kept me4oslav for those who don't know yet right? [17:23] what's bugging me is the the Ubuntu syncing. I am not willing to leave that not-interactive - snwh [17:23] kamilnadeem - Ehh? [17:24] Nothing [17:24] me4oslav well it could be: a note stack that is synced [17:25] others wouldnt be [17:25] snwh - and the user will know this how? [17:26] have the top most note have a U1 logo [17:26] and when its synced - its Orange, when not its grey-ed out? [17:26] Makes sense [17:27] sure [17:27] kamilnadeem - I will post the logs on Google+ :) [17:27] (and twitter) [17:27] so, snwh - so here is what we will do - A) Find a dev (we can't code it to save your lives) [17:28] thered be the user defined stacks and the U1 stack would appear if the user chooses to enable u1 syncing [17:28] good, I will be off then. [17:28] if we keep the "desk" metaphor [17:28] you start mockuping stuff, I will start sketching tomorrow [17:28] yup - if we keep the "interactivness" [17:28] veness* [17:29] i can picture it [17:29] ugh I wish i hadnt lost my tablet pen [17:29] snwh - yes, just come up with *pretty* background and notes design [17:29] we don't want "a la Postman" and "a la Board" uglyness [17:29] :) [17:30] we could have a pinboard metaphor [17:30] we _ need_ that :) ^^ [17:30] but note look like one [17:30] we should call it Pinboard [17:30] haha [17:30] or Agnetha xD [17:30] what does mpt say about silly names :P [17:30] but srsly, I'm not naming stuff, I would come with something atrociously bizarre [17:31] probably named after some god [17:31] you come up with a sane name [17:31] Pinboard is sane [17:31] and it sort of says what it does [17:31] good enough for me :) [17:31] i like one word things [17:32] simplicity [17:32] easy package name to sudo apt-get [17:32] like "Files" ... /trolllface [17:32] hahah [17:32] still nautilus in packagename [17:32] haha [17:32] shall i create the launchpad project? [17:33] damn, even Athena is better name than Files and that means a thing or two :D [17:33] but it doesnt really say what the app does [17:33] I think the dev should create one [17:33] "Do you use Athena?" "What?" [17:34] The "pinboard team" can be assigned as a driver [17:34] snwh - TBF I wanted to name it Drawer, Ikey said that it mean "underwear", than he said "Apollo", than "athena" [17:34] and all on that can access [17:34] anyway - Pinboard it is [17:35] :) [17:35] i can start all the launchpad stuff. [17:35] ok, start drawing stuff :) I will take care of the dialogs sketches tmrw (that's one me, don't wanna abuse ya) [17:36] I will. I'll create the team and the project and you can join on Lp [17:37] kk :) I just hope our mysterious dev agrees with us ... oh well, he will have no chance - MWUBUHAHA [17:38] haha [17:38] well if people like the idea hopefully theyll contribute [17:39] I will make sure the mockups end on OMG! [17:39] :) [17:39] end up* [17:40] you just make sure they are extremely pretty :) I will start sketching tmrw :) [17:41] me4oslav - go join: https://launchpad.net/~pinboard-drivers [17:42] -drivers? That's the team, right? [17:42] yes [17:42] PHEW [17:42] me4oslav - summarize our app [17:43] the tilde indicates a team or user :P [17:43] can I use "sexy" :D [17:43] in more than 1 word [17:43] what is our project purpose [17:44] Yeah ... I know. Just let me clean it from British stuff xP [17:48] Pinboard is user-friendly note organizing application build. Built with interactiveness in mind it provides the user with easy to use workflow to organize your notes. [17:48] something like this [17:49] snwh ^^ [17:49] build? [17:50] ... grammar ... blah :D [17:50] A simple easy-to-use application for quickly placing daily photos, video, audio, text, and more. Think of it as a combination note-taking space and organizer. [17:50] is what i put in [17:50] and i see i left out a comma [17:51] "Think" is too intimidating [17:51] consider might be better [17:51] and are we doing photos and stuff? The poor dev will die before he codes our design :D [17:53] well a text file is no more difficult to organize as a jpg or whatever :P [17:53] unless syncing [17:53] imagine how much API the dev will have to support [17:54] just u1 [17:54] or... [17:54] no picasa and stuff? That would be kinda dick-ish [17:54] they have shotwell for that [17:55] my point is - if we're extending we should extend it properly :) [17:55] _I believe_ [17:55] thats not extension its just adding support for more than just text [17:56] heres a photo on the pinboard its synced to the other pinboard, but its not opened with pinboard [17:56] its still eog, shotwell, vlc, etc [17:56] but pinboard can open notes [17:57] so, just U1 at the beggining and if we add more services I will add off-going d'n'd UX and the dev will add the API stuff? [17:58] i wouldnt add more services. [17:58] or we could scrap the photos videos etc. [17:58] its a place to pin things you like [17:58] and pin notes [17:59] imagine what the users would think (on OMG) - omg guys, you just love Canonical only ... no other services, but Ubuntu One ... [17:59] you cant unsync from picasa [17:59] oh damn Picasa API ... ;s [18:00] i dont see us as a photo managment app [18:00] i think of it as a software pinboard haha [18:00] reciepts, notes, family photo, video links, webpages... [18:00] well, if the users don't get irky I don't care for anything, but UbuntuOne [18:01] we could do dropbox [18:01] no.. [18:01] lets stick to Ubuntu for v1 [18:01] i take that back [18:01] yes [18:02] in my head i see: app window: with a toolbar (like usc) and an interface with notes and photos and such [18:03] the user can drag and move around, stack [18:03] toolbar? what will be in it (we haven't though of that, we only did "desk space") [18:03] we could have no tool bar [18:04] toolbar would be good ... if we had no intearactivitiness [18:04] but we do [18:05] yea scrap the toolbar [18:07] kk, start ur mockup magic [18:07] will do [18:08] but first: need to get a shower [18:08] and a coffee === capisce_ is now known as capisce [18:11] okey-dokey [18:13] me4oslav: snwh: I appreciate all your brainstorming, but reading the backlog I'm concerned about the scope of your designs [18:14] it seems you're planning a lot more than I was [18:15] mhall119 - yeah, we went *wild* the hard part will be the d'n'd the rest should be easy [18:15] my physical metaphor is a roll of paper, like the thermal paper used in receipt printers, where I have one "roll" for something like my daily conversations with jono, and every day I pull up that "roll" and add more notes to it [18:15] I'm not interested in pinning, photos, or dnd [18:16] just a scrollable text note with timestamps that I can easily go to [18:16] You shouldn't have said that we have all the design freedom on G+ ... we just went giddy on power [18:16] everything else sounds great, and probably somebody would want it, but it's not what I need [18:17] you have the design power, but you still have to meet the client's needs, right? ;) [18:18] the developer skills :) The clients would hardly dislike what we have in mind, just worried it its code-able easy enough :) [18:23] hi guys: according to http://askubuntu.com/questions/162788/when-will-the-applications-submitted-to-the-ubuntu-app-showdown-be-available-for all apps of the ubuntu app showdown should be in the market. Mine isn't although it's bugfree; and got updates. I asked in "my apps" a month ago about any status and still no answer! [18:24] whom do I have to write / shout at; so that the app will get into software center? [18:25] it's now nearly 3months in review :/ [18:25] markus__ I think you should talk to mhall119 [18:26] another person who will ignore my app. Sry, but I'm quite disappointed; a friend and me did put 100hours of time and energy into the project, which we developed just for Ubuntu. [18:27] me4oslav mhall119 - yea we may have gotten a bit carried away with the idea. [18:27] snwh ... "A bit" ... huh ... a lot :D But _if_ its get real, it would be *rad* [18:28] me4oslav we can put it on the back burner and make the note app that mhall119 has in mind [18:28] snwh - or do both :P [18:28] :) [18:29] me4oslav I prefer concentrating at one thing time [18:29] I say we finish off Michael's first, then we do ours :) [18:29] agreed [18:30] mhall119, would the stack of notes be a better metaphor than a roll of notes? because i just picture a roll of (bank)notes with rubber band [18:32] actually the more i think about the reciept thing. i get what your saying [18:34] me4oslav - his app idea might be simple enough for me to code. haha [18:35] but ill leave it up to someone better. [18:35] snwh - :D That's the spirit ... screw code :P [18:35] me4oslav but i like code.. [18:36] NO! xD [18:36] me4oslav I can still like it. i wont do it. [18:37] Hi. Is there a "getting started" guide somewhere for GUI C++ apps? [18:37] I do have experience with C++ on Windows, but would like to port some stuff to Ubuntu. [18:39] The app I'm porting also makes use of cryptography by the way; AES to be specific. Should I be concerned about Endianess issues when porting or anything? [18:44] Anyone here? [19:11] Hi [19:11] Connection went down earlier [19:12] I have a library I would like to port to Linux and would like to know if there's a "getting started guide" for C++ development on Linux [19:12] I'm already familiar with standard library functions and stuff, but would like to do GUI development [19:24] IDWMaster: sorry, I don't know any C++ [19:24] you can probably find some general C++ on Linux tutorials [19:24] I can point you at C++ examples for integrating with the Unity desktop, but I don't know any "getting started" kinds [19:26] Samples for integrating with the XServer would be useful [19:26] I don't want to make users run only Unity though [19:26] What about users with KDE? [19:27] I know on Windows you would use CreateWindow and such to create windows [19:27] On Linux it seems like it's more specific to the individual desktop manageres [19:27] *managers [19:28] IDWMaster: generally you don't interface directly with X, you use a toolkit like Qt or Gtk instead, which does that for you [19:29] OK [19:29] So I should check out the docs for Gtk or similar library? [19:29] yeah [19:29] OK [19:30] Aside from UI most of the stuff is porting nicely by the way [19:30] Gtk is more oriented towards C, Qt is written in C++, but you can interchange them [19:30] I've been able to just copy-paste a lot of code [19:30] I'm used to C-oriented APIs [19:30] I'm sure anything is better than Win32 [19:30] cool, yeah if you write standards-compliant code it'll be mostly portable [19:30] Only thing that wasn't portable was the UI, cryptography, and some macros [19:30] Visual Studio has non-standards-compliant macro support [19:30] well it doesn't use hungarian notation, so that's a +1 in my opinion [19:31] Hungarian notation? [19:31] the letter in front of variables/classes identifying the type [19:31] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation [19:32] Ah [19:32] I've written compilers/languages that used that before, but I didn't know it was called that until now [19:33] Easier on the compiler that way [19:33] Although now they've become so advanced it's not necessary anymore [19:33] I doubt the compiler takes that into consideration [19:33] it was more for the developer's benefit [19:34] Ah [19:34] I see [19:34] I was thinking of [19:34] long long somelong = Lliteral [19:34] long long somelong = Lliteral; [19:35] Prefixing the L before a literal to identify its type to the compiler [19:36] I've written compilers where you would place a L, I, B, C, LL, D, or F before a literal value [19:36] I've seen if after, where 1.0l means "a long integer of value 1.0" [19:36] of 1.0f for a floating point [19:37] Yeah. I've seen that too [19:37] Putting it before makes it easier to write an actual parser though [19:37] Because you know what the value is supposed to be by first reading the prefix before it, so then you know which appropriate value parser to use [19:38] Is Endianness on Linux different than on Windows? [19:40] Need to go now [19:40] I'll be on here later! [19:40] I thought endianness was arch specific [19:40] ok [19:40] Some OSs can switch though [19:41] ah, I don't know the answer to that one, sorry [19:41] A lot of CPUs have a "endianness mode switch" [20:01] mhall119 snwh - I will watch DrWho now and then we can talk about the simpler note reading app :) [20:02] me4oslav: just don't talk about DrWho, it doesn't air here for another 5 hours [20:02] snwh: your donation put us over 1500 pounds! Thanks so much! [20:03] mhall119 ha, I wont :P I will have to download it, through, UK proxies screw up even by 50 mbps net speed ... [20:07] mhall119 - my pleasure :) [20:13] me4oslav mhall119 - may or may not be around later for that discussion [20:30] hello, anyone around? [21:59] does anyone know what the standard timeout for unity search is?