[01:01] <darkxst> jbicha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1058845
[01:03] <darkxst> also log out (with autologin enabled ) is basically broken now
[01:03] <darkxst> getting a random result between, autologin, going to gdm and crashing
[01:03] <darkxst> and more often than not, logout from classic results in crashing
[01:04] <darkxst> I suppose it was working before due to one of the CK bugs
[01:05] <jbicha> I wonder who besides Debian & Ubuntu uses gdm on consolekit
[01:06] <darkxst> arch might by default
[01:07] <darkxst> although I think all other distros are planning to switch to systemd if they havent already
[01:07] <jbicha> arch is moving to systemd soonish, despite the complaining
[01:08] <jbicha> if we had a gnome theme for lightdm and if it wasn't for the annoyingly-close integration between gnome-shell & gdm this cycle, we'd be using lightdm
[01:08] <jbicha> it's better supported on Ubuntu
[01:11] <jbicha> I've had a few times where I couldn't even get sudo service gdm stop; sudo service gdm start to get the login screen back :(
[01:11] <darkxst> I havent had that, but I do get a race condition sometimes with, sudo service restart gdm
[01:12] <darkxst> the new gdm comes up before the old one closes down
[01:12] <jbicha> yeah, that's why I split the command in two
[02:10] <darkxst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/+bug/1058859
[04:33] <everaldo> jbicha, awake?
[04:34] <jbicha> everaldo: yes
[04:34] <everaldo> jbicha, we need to update ubuntu-gnome-meta, but I did not understand exactly how
[04:35] <jbicha> I'm already doing it, but this is how it works:
[04:35] <jbicha> you first have to update https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.quantal
[04:36] <jbicha> and then run ./update in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/ubuntu-gnome-meta
[04:37] <jbicha> if it's a brand new package like this time, you have to wait until the package gets published or else ./update won't add it
[04:37] <everaldo> right, thank you for explanation, I see you already did it but
[04:38] <everaldo> when I try to branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.quantal
[04:38] <everaldo> I got some problems
[04:38] <everaldo> let me try to reproduce so next time I can do it
[04:39] <everaldo> bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.quantal - works ok
[04:40] <everaldo> then I try bzr push lp:~ecanuto/ubuntu/quantal/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.quantal
[04:41] <everaldo> and looks like it works this time :)
[04:41] <everaldo> strange
[04:41] <everaldo> last time I got some errors
[04:42] <jbicha> LP was acting up this morning (like 16 hours ago) for me
[04:42] <everaldo> jbicha, ah, I know now
[04:42] <everaldo> when I make this branches I don't have "Propose for merging" option on lauchpad
[04:43] <jbicha> I think you want to push to lp:~ecanuto/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.quantal instead
[04:45] <everaldo> yes, thanks... now I have it :)
[04:45] <everaldo> I think I must learn a little more about this "namespaces"
[04:47] <jbicha> um, I don't know if it's really explained anywhere
[04:47] <jbicha> but the first part after the first / is the project name
[04:48] <jbicha> which is ubuntu if it's a ubuntu-package but it could be something different
[04:48] <jbicha> if a project hasn't been registered you can use +junk (like our iso-build-script branch)
[04:49] <jbicha> see, here's the project page: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-seeds
[04:49] <everaldo> oh, I see it
[04:49] <everaldo> and ~ubuntu-gnome-dev, is it a user?
[04:50] <jbicha> well in this case, it's a team, but same idea
[04:50] <everaldo> so, it the future I must create my branch and merge it or I can commit direct to ~ubuntu-gnome-dev?
[04:51] <jbicha> you have to do a merge proposal
[04:51] <everaldo> understand now
[04:53] <jbicha> that team is basically reserved for Ubuntu Developers, since it controls our seed and build script, but you're welcome to propose merges
[04:53] <everaldo> very cleaver this merges proposal
[04:53] <everaldo> look like github
[04:53] <everaldo> s/look/looks/
[04:54] <everaldo> about iso creation, I saw some place (don't found it now) that Ubuntu is now using live-builds
[04:55] <everaldo> but we have for ubuntu-gnome a script that build iso
[04:55] <everaldo> do you know how other teams build isos?
[04:56] <jbicha> the official flavors all use Ubuntu's build system, that system isn't fully public or documented but it's becoming more open
[04:56] <jbicha> but you don't have to do the entire live-build process to make an iso
[04:57] <jbicha> our script uses a regular Ubuntu iso to provide most of the pieces like wubi and the bootloader
[04:58] <everaldo> yes, I see it
[04:58] <everaldo> just curious about the way used by official flavors
[04:58] <jbicha> we create a minimal Ubuntu environment and add ubuntu-gnome-desktop and the installer pieces and then create the squashfs
[04:59] <jbicha> the squashfs is the compressed image for the live environment and it's copied to disk during install instead of installing the 1000 or more packages individually
[05:00] <everaldo> humm, that explain why installation is so fast
[05:00] <jbicha> there's some other ways of making Ubuntu flavor disks but this way seemed the best
[05:01]  * everaldo reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
[05:01] <jbicha> it took me the summer to figure it out, the script I got was from the Ubuntu GNOME Shell Remix
[05:02] <everaldo> normally here I take on iso as basis and then I customize with packages that I use
[05:02] <everaldo> so next time I install it comes with my packages
[05:02] <everaldo> but I use my "ubuntomize" script :-)
[05:02] <everaldo> jbicha, I don't know if you are right person but I see one problem on all flavors
[05:03] <everaldo> some years ago when ubuntu was in alpha and beta it comes with xterm and xdiagnose
[05:03] <jbicha> oh, that problem...
[05:03] <everaldo> and it is aways removed from final version
[05:03] <everaldo> but last two versions comes with this tools even on final version
[05:04] <everaldo> I know it is not a big deal but
[05:04] <jbicha> bug 129041
[05:06] <jbicha> those tools have been in Ubuntu for a long time, I think I was told that xterm and xdiagnose are needed for the failsafe mode when X won't start
[05:06] <everaldo> so the idea is to remove the icon?
[05:07] <everaldo> it looks ok
[05:07] <jbicha> that's what I woud like
[05:07] <everaldo> when "normal" users see the ugly icons they are just scared
[05:08] <everaldo> the same for imagemagic, mc and java packages
[05:08] <everaldo> I always had imagemagic instaled as dependency of gimp and inkscape
[05:08] <everaldo> but it never comes with the "ugly wizard icon"
[05:09] <everaldo> but last release start to comes with this ugly icon
[05:09] <everaldo> jbicha, what is better place to post this bug report?
[05:11] <jbicha> you need to get someone else's attention, I tried following up on that bug but the developers who added the icons back didn't seem to see the problem
[05:11] <jbicha> I added a design task so maybe the designers will make a decision
[05:12] <jbicha> it's too late for quantal
[05:13] <everaldo> :(
[05:13] <everaldo> so bad
[05:14] <jbicha> but...
[05:14] <jbicha> I think we can cheat for Ubuntu GNOME
[05:15] <everaldo> how?
[05:15] <jbicha> by adding those desktops to /usr/share/gnome/applications and settings nodisplay on them
[05:16] <jbicha> *setting nodisplay
[05:16] <everaldo> so, gnome use a different applications folder
[05:16] <everaldo> did not know that
[05:17] <jbicha> in fact, Xubuntu does just that, check out xubuntu-default-settings
[05:18] <everaldo> good to know
[05:19] <everaldo> jbicha, can I change ubuntu-gnome-default-settings to do the same?
[05:19] <everaldo> or is too late?
[05:20] <jbicha> no, it's not too late for us, it won't require new translations and there is no documentation that would be hurt by changing that
[05:21] <jbicha> sure, go ahead and fix it
[05:22] <everaldo> any problem if I do it also for mc and imagemagic or dont make sense as it is not included on default instalation?
[05:23] <jbicha> test it and see what happens when those apps are installed and when they aren't
[05:23] <everaldo> ok, I will do it right now
[05:23] <jbicha> I don't think we need to do that for mc though
[05:24] <jbicha> nothing depends on mc, and byobu is a similar terminal app with its out .desktop
[05:24] <jbicha> *its own .desktop
[05:25] <everaldo> yes, and not everybody uses mc, a end user will never install it
[05:25] <everaldo> also imagemagik is used by "ooo-thumbnailer"
[05:26] <everaldo> let me just remove xterm's
[05:26] <everaldo> and for others that I don't like I will create a "everaldo-settings" on my ppa :)
[05:27] <jbicha> hiding imagemagick might be useful too
[05:28] <everaldo> yes, but I see now  that most packages depend on imagemagic-common
[05:28] <everaldo> the exception is ooo-thumbnailer
[05:28] <everaldo> I will fill a bug report to change ooo-thumbnailer
[05:29] <everaldo> so the "imagemagic" without "common" will never be installed
[05:30] <jbicha> what do you mean? does anybody actually use imagemagick from a gui directly?
[05:30] <everaldo> yes
[05:30] <everaldo> the imagemagic package just install and desktop icon with a ugly gui tool to convert images
[05:31] <jbicha> the gui looks useless, let's hide it
[05:31] <everaldo> ok
[13:44] <smartboyhw> Hi jbicha
[14:03] <jbicha> smartboyhw: hi
[14:06] <jbicha> everaldo: I think Unity would use the gnome-menus blacklist too if it were enabled so I don't think we want to mess with that
[14:06] <jbicha> we just want to copy what xubuntu-default-settings does
[14:07] <jbicha> also your merge request includes a bunch of plymouth stuff, you probably want to start over from what is actually at ubuntu:ubuntu-gnome-default-settings
[16:12] <jbicha_> ricotz: hey, I was working on ibus today
[16:13] <jbicha_> what do you think about a gnome3 testing PPA, that way more than one person can push to it?
[17:21] <jbicha_> oh, that's cute, unity won't start with the new ibus
[17:24] <jbicha_> maybe I just need to rebuild nux
[17:43] <everaldo> jbicha_, hey
[17:44] <everaldo> jbicha_, the gnome-menus blacklist is not used anymore, the gnome-menus-blacklist utility is not calling on gnome-menus postinst
[17:47] <jbicha_> ok, rebuilding nux worked but maintaining nux in a ppa is going to be a headache
[17:48] <everaldo> jbicha_, about default-setting, how I can start again, remerge and then apply setting?
[17:48] <jbicha_> everaldo: right, and we shouldn't enable it without knowing why it's been disabled in Ubuntu
[17:48] <jbicha_> just bzr branch into a new directory
[17:50] <everaldo> ok, let me fix this first then I will explain the blacklist because I am prety confident that it is the right way for blacklist
[17:51] <jbicha_> but I'm pretty confident that will affect Unity as well
[17:51] <everaldo> jbicha_, ok, then is better I check it again
[17:51] <everaldo> jbicha_, do you know that I havent included xterm and uxterm in blacklist, it is already there since long time?
[17:52] <everaldo> they just stop to call gnome-menus-blacklist
[17:52] <everaldo> and I made the ubuntu-gnome-default settings call it
[17:52] <jbicha_> yes, xterm and uxterm have been installed in Debian & Ubuntu for a long time by default but they've been kept hidden until a recent Ubuntu change
[17:53] <jbicha_> we don't need to use gnome-menus-blacklist, the xubuntu approach will work too
[17:54] <everaldo> ok
[17:56] <everaldo> xubuntu aproach did not work for me but let me fix the merge then we can back to it
[17:57] <everaldo> oh, I see you comments on bug, hard discussion
[17:57] <everaldo> (xterm, uxterm)
[17:58] <jbicha_> the guy has been maintaining xterm for 16 years, he's got a lot invested in it and wants to see it used more
[17:58] <jbicha_> he also commented on the Debian bug
[18:00] <everaldo> understand him but everybody must move on
[18:01] <everaldo> about my first merge, I see that the "Plymouth theme added" is a already included but " Plymouth background color changed to #133773" not
[18:01] <everaldo> is it normal?
[18:01] <everaldo> approve one patch but not other?
[18:03] <jbicha_> I tweaked the changelog, did everything else get merged though?
[18:03] <everaldo> let me see
[18:05] <everaldo> ah, so you merge it in only one revision
[18:05] <everaldo> understand now :-)
[18:06] <everaldo> so now I can delete the branch or do I need to keep it?
[18:08] <jbicha_> I don't think there's a need to keep it
[18:12] <everaldo> ok, let me restart and test how it affect unity
[18:19] <everaldo> ok, /etc/gnome/menus.blacklist don't affect unity
[18:19] <everaldo> but when we run gnome-menus-blacklist it move some entries to "/usr/share/gnome/applications"
[18:19] <everaldo> and it also affects unity
[18:20] <everaldo> so, put files on /usr/share/gnome/applications or run gnome-menus-blacklist have same effect
[18:21] <everaldo> so, no different from xubuntu but using a different approach
[18:22] <jbicha_> everaldo: interesting
[18:22] <everaldo> the package gnome-menus still have gnome-menus-blacklist utility but now it is not calling in postinst probably to keep icons on unity on default installation
[18:22] <jbicha_> but at this point in the release cycle, I'd rather only touch one package than two
[18:22] <everaldo> so, my approach just run gnome-menus-blacklist
[18:22] <everaldo> jbicha_, we dont need to touch two
[18:22] <jbicha_> as the Release Team has to manually approve each upload
[18:22] <everaldo> just gnome-settings
[18:22] <jbicha_> oh?
[18:22] <everaldo> my merge in gnome-menus is just an improvment of blacklist
[18:23] <everaldo> xterm and uxterm is already there
[18:23] <everaldo> I just added java7
[18:23] <everaldo> look at my changes on gnome-menus
[18:24] <everaldo> 131. OpenJDK 7 and IcedTea added to menus.blacklist
[18:24] <everaldo> 132. Midnight Commander and X Diagnostics added to menus.blacklist
[18:24] <everaldo> 133. dconf editor added to menus.blacklist
[18:25] <everaldo> jbicha, look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ecanuto/ubuntu/quantal/gnome-menus/gnome-menus
[18:25] <everaldo> last three revisions
[18:25] <jbicha> please don't add new changelog entries for every change unless the package is released
[18:25] <jbicha> dconf-editor is too useful to hide
[18:26] <everaldo> ok, I will make a new propose without dconf and just one changelog entry
[18:26] <jbicha> you should talk to bryceh about whether xdiagnose should be hidden or not
[18:27] <everaldo> ok I will do it
[18:27] <jbicha> anyway, we're not going to change gnome-menus at this point, we're well after UI freeze
[18:28] <everaldo> just deleted this proposal for merging
[18:28] <jbicha> you may want to talk to the Debian GNOME maintainers if you think more stuff should be added to the blacklist
[18:29]  * everaldo noting all
[18:29] <everaldo> s/noting/recording/
[18:29] <everaldo> about gnome-default-settings way to blacklist, did you now agree or still want use xubuntu approach?
[18:30] <jbicha> I don't think mc needs hidden, there's a big difference between something installed by default or very common like Java and something that needs to be explicitly installed
[18:31] <everaldo> ok, I will just leave this gnome-menus changes and discuss it in Debian GNOME maintainers
[18:32] <jbicha> I don't want to hide all that KDE stuff, my wife plays some of the KDE games for instance
[18:32] <jbicha> while she uses Unity, she wouldn't be happy if her games were missing just because I encouraged her to try GNOME Shell
[18:33] <jbicha> the xubuntu approach allows us to be more selective about the 2 or 3 things we don't want to see by default
[18:33] <everaldo> ok let me do it
[18:34] <everaldo> jbicha, which application, only xterm and uxterm or also java stuff?
[18:36] <jbicha> I'd like to hide xterm, uxterm, and imagemagick; I don't really use java any more so I don't know how useful the java settings thing is
[18:39] <everaldo> ok
[19:59] <everaldo> jbicha, ok, just propose the merge, tested here and it works
[20:00] <everaldo> on xubuntu add NoDisplay=true is enought
[20:01] <everaldo> but for gnome we need also to add also Exec and Type to desktop file
[20:20] <darkxst> NoDisplay should be enought
[20:20] <darkxst> unless we accidently imported the debian path
[20:20] <darkxst> s/path/patch/
[20:30] <jbicha> everaldo: I don't have ooo-thumbnailer installed but I still have the imagemagick icon
[20:36] <everaldo> darkxst, NoDisplay isant work
[20:36] <everaldo> but I don't know why
[20:36] <everaldo> darkxst, what is this debian patch?
[20:37] <everaldo> jbicha, that is because you installed imagemagic, now most packages depends on imagemagic-common
[20:37] <everaldo> the imagemagic only add the icon
[20:40] <darkxst> everaldo, there was a debian patch that disables noDisplay
[20:41] <jbicha> everaldo: ah, it looks like I have it because of shutter, not inkscape
[20:42] <darkxst> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=658176
[20:42] <darkxst> jbicha, we should drop that patch
[20:52] <everaldo> jbicha, do you want it also removed?
[20:55] <everaldo> so bad, lots of programs depends on imagemagic
[20:55] <everaldo> I will hide it
[21:00] <jbicha> yeah, http://packages.debian.org/sid/i386/imagemagick/filelist
[21:01] <jbicha> darkxst: I don't the fix for that bug is causing problems
[21:03] <darkxst> jbicha, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=658176#c13
[21:03] <darkxst> see comment #13
[21:03] <darkxst> that is the patch we should drop
[21:06] <darkxst> debian don't even have that one anymore
[21:09] <jbicha> darkxst: we comment that patch out
[21:09] <darkxst> ah, ok
[21:10] <darkxst> I should have checked series ;)
[21:11] <jbicha> np, I commented out the disable-nm patch because it's likely to come back but the last I heard Debian might even be dropping that after Wheezy
[21:12] <everaldo> jbicha, I added imagemagik hide but it is not on merge proposal, do I need to wait or propose again?
[21:13] <jbicha> everaldo: just go ahead and push again, lp will update the merge proposal
[21:14] <everaldo> ok, thanks
[21:17] <darkxst> jbicha, that should be fine, as long as we have a dep against nm
[21:20] <jbicha> yeah, it's not a problem for Ubuntu but it is an issue for non-Linux architectures
[21:27] <everaldo> humm, just see that I added changelog entry, forget recomendation :(
[21:59] <everaldo> time for dinner, be back later