[00:00] <pinky-> Darael: does my version still reply? Can you please test?
[00:00] <penguin42> ddtge: Ah, pick either, I'm used to imagemagick
[00:00] <Darael> pinky-: Nothing.
[00:00] <pinky-> Darael: thanks
[00:00] <Darael> pinky-: No trouble.
[00:01] <ddtge> i'm doing that now :)
[00:06] <ddtge> penguin42, now i have it! i but i can't see anything in the --help  about slideshow / effects / animation
[00:08] <penguin42> ddtge: I suspect it hasn't got the animation/effects you are after - it will show a sequence with a delay
[00:19] <ddtge> penguin42, how i can open folder with photos and show them like a slideshow
[00:21] <ddtge> now i see only an option to open one image
[07:14] <popey> morning
[07:16] <daubers> o/
[08:07] <Myrtti> quiet, innit
[08:46] <czajkowski> yarp
[09:14] <webpigeon> jabber \o/
[09:23] <brobostigon> good morning everyone
[09:36] <dwatkins> morning brobostigon et al
[09:37] <dwatkins> NGRhodes_: connection problems?
[09:38] <brobostigon> morning dwatkins
[09:41] <webpigeon> RadiumCat: you are both connected and disconnected at the same time?
[09:42] <dwatkins> Perhaps RadiumCat belongs to Schroedinger.
[09:43] <webpigeon> dwatkins: it would appear so
[09:50] <Darael> Well, Radium /is/ unstable, I suppose this behaviour is in keeping with the name.
[10:48]  * popey lusts after http://www.ebuyer.com/392604-ocz-512gb-vertex-4-ssd-vtx4-25sat3-512g-m
[10:48] <pinky-> yeah nice
[10:49] <pinky-> popey, you need 2 for RAID-0
[10:49] <pinky-> ;)
[10:49] <popey> heh, not in my laptop
[10:49] <popey> its hard enough crowbaring one in!
[10:49] <pinky-> hehe @ crowbar
[10:50] <popey> 9mm drive in a 7.5mm slot
[10:52] <MartijnVdS> Sounds more like "angle grinder" than "crowbar"
[10:59] <popey> a good hearty shove was all that was needed
[10:59] <pinky-> popey: was the last hdd a bottleneck?
[11:00] <popey> I bought it with a 320GB hard disk and immediately switched it to SSD, so never really benchmarked it
[11:00] <popey> but I wouldn't go back to spinning rust now
[11:01] <directhex> the wife is constrained by her 120G SSD
[11:01] <directhex> so i bought her a 240G yesterday. she doesn't know yet
[11:02] <popey> yeah, my laptop is 240G which is about right
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> I have 120G in my laptop
[11:02] <popey> sometimes I want to reboot into otherOS though which would be nice to have on here too
[11:02] <MartijnVdS> I only miss my music.. but spotify fills that hole
[11:02] <popey> /dev/sda1            213G  187G   16G  93% /
[11:02] <popey> getting tight now and then
[11:03] <popey> VMs don't help
[11:03] <popey> 44G	VirtualBox VMs/
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> VMs take up a lot, agreed
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> Btrfs, or ext?
[11:03] <directhex> windows ssd for boot drive is all well & good, except it puts the windows version of /home on the boot drive, and that bloats FAST
[11:03] <popey> ext4
[11:03] <Darael> Did they fix btrfs fsync() taking an age, yet?
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> Darael: yes
[11:03] <popey> if i get a bigger ssd I'll go btrfs i think
[11:04] <pinky-> Since I discovered the benefits of RAID 0 I have installed 2 x's hdd's in every pc I have ever built since
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> My laptop has SSD + btrfs
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> I love it :)
[11:04] <popey> :)
[11:04] <Darael> I mean, I know we had a workaround with libeatmydata, but it was potentially flaky.  So it's good to know that dpkg can be usable on btrfs now without it.
[11:04] <popey> what kernel do you run on it MartijnVdS ?
[11:04] <MartijnVdS> popey: quantal-default
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> popey: (amd64)
[11:05] <popey> ok
[11:05] <popey> nice
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> -u
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> or not?
[11:05] <MartijnVdS> with u!
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> I hope "r" will have an easier name ;)
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> Rampaging Rhino or something
[11:08] <Darael> I don't want an Rhino Rampaging all over my computer!  Those things are /heavy/.
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> roaring rhesus?
[11:08] <Darael> Can't we have a Ribald Raven instead?  No, we can't have a Raven; there would be too many "nevermore" jokes.
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> Darael: roving rabbit
[11:10] <Darael> MartijnVdS: It might run away, or freeze in headlights!
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> beta-freeze? :)
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> me decides it's a nice afternoon for Kings of Convenience
[11:18] <pinky-> I only discovered Goyte for the first time last week cos of this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY and this week bought his last 4 albums
[11:18] <pinky-> well his only 4 albums
[11:18] <MartijnVdS> pinky-: only last week? Do you not own a radio? :)
[11:19] <pinky-> MartijnVdS: I hit my head in the 90's
[11:19] <awilkins> Is it just me, or are the API docs for Firefox extensions really hard to find? (ie - not found them yet).
[11:19] <pinky-> MartijnVdS: radio.. I mainly listen to Radio 4 in the kitchen and that's about it
[11:20] <awilkins> I just want to know what events I can hook so I can patch User Agent Switcher to switch agent automatically
[11:20] <awilkins> So my wife can use Pymazon to download music automatically without having to manually flip her user agent every time
[11:21] <awilkins> Stupid Amazon "Linux isn't supported, but if you pretend to be Windows you still get the AMZ files, cos we are dumbasses"
[11:21] <awilkins> Why couldn't they just kick a couple of K the way of the Pymazon guy and support it officially
[11:26] <pinky-> Gotye*
[11:26] <pinky-> typo yet again!
[11:28] <pinky-> I'm completely useless
[11:29] <MartijnVdS> Resistance is useless!
[11:30] <penguin42> and futile
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-btrfs/msg19182.html
[11:32] <MartijnVdS> popey: teh shineys!
[11:41] <pinky-> all my neighbors love me as I never blast LOUD music.. infact they rarely even see me at all!
[11:47]  * pinky- goes back into the shadows
[11:50] <penguin42> pinky-: Except for when you have to dig another pit of course
[11:50] <pinky-> penguin42: well that's what they say about peeps who don't have a Facebook account..
[11:51]  * penguin42 gulps
[11:51] <pinky-> :o
[11:51] <penguin42> .me thought he was the only one
[12:05] <popey> nice MartijnVdS
[12:36] <popey> Wish we had an Ubuntu community mumble server
[12:36] <popey> I'd probably lurk on it
[12:42] <pinky-> Sunday, the day of rest.
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> REST?
[12:44] <pinky-> Sunday, day of leisure.
[12:45] <penguin42> sunday, day of realising you'll have to get up 4 hours earlier tomorrow
[12:46]  * pinky- ponders about glass half full or half empty theory
[12:51] <RaycisCharles> Sounds like you believe in Intelligent Emptiness.
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> pinky-: http://whatif.xkcd.com/6/
[12:55] <pinky-> and the moral of the story is, If the optimist says the glass is half full, and the pessimist says the glass is half empty, the physicist ducks.
[12:55] <pinky-> lmao
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> pinky-: read his other "what-if"s, they're all this good :)
[12:56] <pinky-> MartijnVdS: that is a good page so bookmarked:)
[13:03] <AlanBell> popey: so what would be involved in an Ubuntu community mumble server?
[13:03] <popey> a place where people can hang out and chat
[13:03] <popey> and have meetings
[13:03] <popey> would need some moderation
[13:03] <AlanBell> ok
[13:04] <popey> there's other mumble servers that I hang out on sometimes both at the weekend/evening and during the working day
[13:04] <AlanBell> well I can fling one up (well I have one at mumble.libertus.co.uk)
[13:04] <popey> useful for those of us working from home
[13:06] <popey> i know the kernel team hang out on the canonical mumble server all day
[13:06] <popey> and chat during the working day about work and non-work like you would in an office
[13:06] <AlanBell> last time I mentioned this canonical didn't want to host a community mumble server
[13:07] <popey> I would imagine quite a moderation overhead
[13:07] <popey> much like irc
[13:08] <popey> i dunno if the canonical one is patched to only allow members of ~canonical to access it
[13:08] <AlanBell> true, but that can be shared out, there is a permissions structure built into mumble
[13:08] <popey> cool
[13:09] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4SiCY622A8 my current annoyance
[13:09] <popey> which reminds me, need to go to the office sometime soon
[13:11] <ddtge> hi
[13:12] <ddtge> someone know how to setup an IR usb stick?
[13:13] <ddtge> it's recognize in dmseg as "rc-dib0700-rc5"
[13:14] <AlanBell> popey: I need a password to connect to the canonical server
[13:16] <popey> yeah
[13:18] <AlanBell> popey: I don't get the alt-grave popup
[13:18] <popey> as a guest?
[13:18] <popey> what spec pc?
[13:18] <AlanBell> core i3 laptop
[13:18] <popey> i get it on two i7 machines
[13:19] <AlanBell> it feels about the same as the delay on alt-tab
[13:19] <AlanBell> if you alt-tab fairly quick you don't get the popup
[13:19] <popey> yeah
[13:19] <popey> i still get it on 12.04
[13:19] <popey> alt-tab as fast as I can, I still see it :(
[13:20] <popey> dunno what I'm doing different
[13:20]  * popey gets back to testing compiz prerelease
[13:20] <AlanBell> didn't you dial down the time for alt-tab popup somewhere
[13:21] <AlanBell> there is an alt-tab delay setting somewhere but I can't find it now
[13:21] <penguin42> anyone had any experience with the zoostorm PCs - good or bad, thinking of one for my dad
[13:21] <AlanBell> penguin42: good
[13:21] <webpigeon> penguin42: i'm on one now
[13:21] <penguin42> http://www.ebuyer.com/389624-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1067 seems ludicrously cheap for quad core
[13:22] <AlanBell> well they don't have a windows boat anchor attached to the price tag
[13:22] <penguin42> true
[13:22] <webpigeon> that and the motherboard has almost no expandability
[13:22] <AlanBell> cheaper than buying the parts to make it
[13:23] <penguin42> AlanBell: Yeh
[13:23] <webpigeon> indeed
[13:23] <penguin42> claims to have 1 PCI-e, PCI, and PCI-e
[13:24] <webpigeon> mm
[13:26] <popey> not me AlanBell
[13:27] <popey> AlanBell, can you test something, go to an empty desktop, open a medium sized nautilus window and drag it _slowly_ to the edges
[13:27] <popey> it should 'stick' a bit at all four edges
[13:27] <popey> for me it only sticks top/right/bottom, but never sticks where the launcher is on the left
[13:28] <AlanBell> sticks for me in a guest session
[13:28] <AlanBell> all 4 edges
[13:29] <AlanBell> but I haven't installed the sil2100 ppa
[13:29] <popey> oh hang on
[13:29] <popey> it sticks at the launcher, I'm an idiot
[13:29] <popey> i was testing at the edge of the screen
[13:29] <popey> \o/ not a bug
[13:31] <AlanBell> yeah, at the edge of the launcher
[13:32]  * AlanBell observes a broken show mouse and broken enhanced zoom /o\
[13:32] <AlanBell> wonder if that is just me
[13:32] <AlanBell> lets get this ppa of the new hotness installed
[13:34] <popey> thanks
[13:34] <AlanBell> hmm, weak lemon drink
[13:35] <AlanBell> will tomato juice with worcester sauce do?
[13:41] <penguin42> Why: http://www.ebuyer.com/131752-startech-1-port-16550-isa-serial-card-isa1s550
[13:41] <penguin42> which century are we in?
[13:42] <AlanBell> penguin42: lots of things like receipt printers have serial ports
[13:42] <penguin42> AlanBell: But it's *ISA*
[13:42] <AlanBell> oic
[13:43]  * penguin42 was looking for a PCI(e) 232 card
[13:43] <popey> i only ever drink tomato juice on BA flights
[13:43] <popey> stupid really, I love the stuff
[13:43] <AlanBell> thats where I got into it
[13:43] <AlanBell> but I never had it at home
[13:43] <mgdm> I used to only ever drink G&T on planes
[13:43] <mgdm> that has now changed
[13:44] <AlanBell> but sainsburys were doing 3 for 2 on juices and I only wanted two, so grabbed a tomato one for kicks, it is great
[13:45] <AlanBell> really the shopping lens should have started with an Occado link rather than Amazon
[13:46] <AlanBell> although, that said, it does find a wide array of tomato juice options from amazon
[13:47] <popey> hah
[13:48] <popey> so it does!
[13:48] <popey> ooo they deliver via amazon prime
[13:49] <popey> 66p/l
[13:49]  * popey checks sainsbugs
[13:49] <popey> £1/L
[13:50] <popey> 62p/L for 'basics'
[13:50] <popey> so is it worth 4p/L extra?
[13:51] <AlanBell> probably, I expect basics is a bit more watery
[13:52] <popey> we'll see, arrives on tuesday
[13:53] <AlanBell> you will of course also need a clear plastic stiring stick
[13:53] <AlanBell> to recreate that 30,000ft experience
[13:54] <mgdm> heh
[13:55] <AlanBell> the show mouse plugin isn't working for me :(
[13:55]  * penguin42 hands AlanBell xeyes
[13:56] <AlanBell> yeah, that works, but I want glittery sprinkles
[13:57] <popey> AlanBell, could you please file bugs and lemme know the numbers?
[13:57] <popey> and if you roll back your compiz just check to see if they were already broken?
[13:57] <AlanBell> ok
[13:57] <popey> thank you!
[13:58] <AlanBell> running compiz Installed: 1:0.9.8.4-0ubuntu1~test2
[13:58] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[13:59] <popey> hello
[13:59] <popey> bah, i want some tomato juice now!
[13:59] <pr0ph3t> how bad is it to upgrade distro through aptitude rather thank doing a fresh install?
[13:59] <mgdm> popey: so go and get some of the cheap stuff, and you can then do a proper compariso
[14:00] <pr0ph3t> or a bloody mary popey
[14:00] <penguin42> pr0ph3t: It's best to use do-release-upgrade or update-maanager
[14:00] <penguin42> pr0ph3t: With those it normally works, especially if you wait until late beta or the release
[14:00] <AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/f8eTpGbiLMk
[14:00] <penguin42> pr0ph3t: They tend to fix up a few things that a simple dist-upgrade doesn't
[14:01] <pr0ph3t> thanks penguin42
[14:01] <popey> AlanBell, i have a clear plastic stirring device!
[14:02]  * popey goes to the co-op
[14:02] <popey> brb
[14:02] <penguin42> can see this is turning into a survey of different tomato juices
[14:03] <AlanBell> hope popey has the worcester sauce
[14:06]  * AlanBell files a long standing annoying bug where the laptop flips to mirrored screens after logging in.
[14:09] <AlanBell> Bug #1059073
[14:09] <penguin42> the shortly after is a bit weird
[14:11] <penguin42> that is odd
[14:12] <penguin42> AlanBell: By that point would you say it's finished starting all the apps and everything else in your startup?
[14:15] <AlanBell> penguin42: yes
[14:15] <penguin42> weird
[14:16] <AlanBell> just waiting for a video to upload
[14:16] <penguin42> AlanBell: OK, then given you've got that 30 second gap, I think what I'd try and do would be immediately after it's started capture a copy of /var/log/Xorg.0.log and the output of xrandr and dmesg and then capture it again after it's changed and see if there is anything added
[14:16] <AlanBell> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117898636/XorgLog.txt there it is
[14:17] <penguin42> is that captured after the change?
[14:17] <AlanBell> yeah, I think the stuff starting at 59 seconds is it
[14:18] <penguin42> yeh, never seen that - some power management magic
[14:23] <penguin42> AlanBell: During that 30 seconds or so are you keeping it active - e.g. wiggling mouse or anything?
[14:23] <AlanBell> yeah, I am starting to do stuff
[14:23] <AlanBell> like open windows, type things
[14:24] <penguin42> weird, so it's not got any good reason to think about power saving
[14:32] <AlanBell> popey: how do I nuke all my compiz settings?
[14:37] <penguin42> AlanBell: Have you had a play with powertop?
[14:38] <penguin42> AlanBell: (Don't - it's a question not a suggestion)
[14:39] <AlanBell> have used powertop a while back
[14:39] <penguin42> AlanBell: just wondered if some over enthusiastic power saving thing is enabled
[14:41] <AlanBell> dunno, don't think so
[14:45] <AlanBell> yay, found the compiz settings, removed ~.config/compiz-1/
[14:48] <AlanBell> ok, so enhanced zoom works fine, show mouse still doesn't
[14:50] <AlanBell> bug 1059104
[14:57]  * AlanBell adds a video to bug 1059073
[14:57] <popey> longest shopping trip _ever_
[14:57] <popey> AlanBell, you should test as guest
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> that should be some kind of bug-filing mantra
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> "Test as guest!"
[14:58] <popey> had to go to 5 shops to eventually find one that sold tomato juice
[14:58] <AlanBell> true, but I did want my own profile reset anyway
[14:59] <penguin42> is that the standard quantal backdrop? and is that green thing a quantal?)
[14:59] <AlanBell> having done so I can now have the launcher on one screen only \o/ (it was stuck on both)
[14:59] <penguin42> or is it a quatzal
[14:59] <AlanBell> it is a quetzal
[14:59] <AlanBell> and it is a standard wallpaper but not the default
[14:59] <penguin42> well, ain't it cute
[14:59] <AlanBell> default is the bruise still
[15:00] <AlanBell> or baby sick depending on your outlook
[15:00]  * MartijnVdS is still on this background: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/set-72157629167894627
[15:01] <Laney> edubuntu's wallpapers are nice
[15:02] <AlanBell> they are
[15:03] <AlanBell> dunno why we include a rather nice wallpaper featuring the animal but don't set it as default
[15:03] <AlanBell> pangolin one was fine too
[15:03] <popey> turns out the price of tomato juice in waitrose is the same as amazon
[15:03] <popey> \o/
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> popey: but free shipping!
[15:05] <AlanBell> can we set up RAID with the desktop CD now?
[15:07] <popey> yes i think so
[15:07] <popey> AlanBell, try this...
[15:08] <popey> backup ~/.config/monitors.xml  and remove it, logout, log back in, see what your displays do
[15:08] <popey> then set up your displays how you like them, logout / login, see if it works properly
[15:08] <popey> then diff the backup of monitors.xml and the new one, see what broke
[15:09] <AlanBell> think I have already tried removing that
[15:09] <penguin42> popey: the pm message in his logs looks interesting though?
[15:10] <popey> not seen it...
[15:10] <popey> [    59.053] (II) PM Event received: Capability Changed
[15:10] <popey> that?
[15:10] <penguin42> popey: nod
[15:10] <penguin42> popey: that seems to correspond to about the time it goes screwy
[15:11] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/126455/ubuntu-12-04-dual-monitor-reset-bug
[15:11] <popey> so you are not alone AlanBell
[15:12] <AlanBell> ok, removed monitors.xml
[15:13] <AlanBell> set them up right, rebooted, logged back in, was about to type here how fixed it was, then it flipped again
[15:13]  * penguin42 wonders if you can monitor PM events with something like dbus-monitor?
[15:20] <zleap-netbook> hi
[15:21] <popey> AlanBell, bug 1059104 is stock quantal, not with the ppa?
[15:22] <AlanBell> popey: both
[15:23] <AlanBell> and I did test that as guest
[15:24] <popey> ok, ta
[15:28]  * AlanBell installs 10.04
[15:28] <zleap> 10.04
[15:28] <penguin42> AlanBell: Is that a newish Sammy laptop ?
[15:28] <zleap> isn't that the previous LTS release
[15:29] <penguin42> zleap: Yeh, Lucid
[15:29] <AlanBell> penguin42: it is a 3 year old samsung R530
[15:29] <AlanBell> yeah, installing 10.04 LTS server with KVM
[15:29] <zleap> ah
[15:29] <penguin42> AlanBell: Ah ok, it's just there is a rather nasty bricking bug with some of the new ones if you boot them using EFI
[15:29] <zleap> not good
[15:30] <AlanBell> going to put a VM on it, then suspend it, then upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 and unsuspend the VM and let it carry on
[15:30] <penguin42> AlanBell: Are you taking bets on that working?
[15:30] <AlanBell> well if I was gambling I would do it on the live server with 10 or so customer VMs on it
[15:31] <penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, I'd be surprised if it works, but please, carry on
[15:34] <AlanBell> yeah, my first thought was lolno
[15:34] <AlanBell> but then I couldn't really think of any reason why no
[15:35] <penguin42> AlanBell: The alternative you might try is a live migration from a 10.04 box to a 12.04 box
[15:37] <penguin42> AlanBell: I'm not sure either way works, but if they do I'd make sure I try with a config as close as possible to the VMs you use for the customers
[15:37] <AlanBell> haven't got the hardware for that
[15:37] <AlanBell> not on the right subnet anyway, which a live migration requires
[15:48] <AlanBell> it is odd with startup disk creator that copying the data takes a few seconds and installing the bootloader takes a few minutes
[15:53] <penguin42> AlanBell: I suspect that copying the data hasn't actually finished, it's still in buffers somewhere, and the installing the bootloader is waiting for it to empty out?
[15:53] <AlanBell> yeah, that sounds plausible
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> sync()
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> + slow USB drives
[16:02] <penguin42> syncing data, come back next week
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> my laptop does that on reboot
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> Lots of disk activity for a minute.. then it shuts down/reboots
[16:06] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: yeh my desktop takes annoyingly long to shutdown and I haven't figured out why - I wonder if there is something like bootcamp for shutdown
[16:07] <penguin42> (I did find ctrl-alt-shift-pagedown though which is a KDE shortcut for shutdown which is just great!)
[17:02] <popey> AlanBell, I do wonder how much bandwidth an always on mumble would eat though
[17:38] <AlanBell> popey: I have 10,000 GB/month before being throttled down to 10Mbit/s
[17:39] <AlanBell> or pay a few quid and stay at full speed
[17:39] <penguin42> AlanBell: Heck, who is that with?
[17:39] <AlanBell> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex5
[17:39] <penguin42> popey: I doubt that much for audio, is it smart enough to compress?
[17:39] <penguin42> ah yeh heard of them
[17:39] <penguin42> popey: especially for silence?
[17:50] <AlanBell> just for a laugh lets see what speedtest.net makes of my server (running a desktop in a VM on the server)
[17:54] <AlanBell> http://speedtest.net/result/2212372426.png
[17:55] <popey> nice
[18:05] <stgraber> AlanBell: sadly I don't have a desktop VM on my hetzner server so I can't post a result 10 times faster than yours ;) yay for gigabit
[18:06] <AlanBell> :) I dunno if I have one on gigabit or if the VM is not getting the full speed of the host or something
[18:07] <stgraber> which reminds me, I need to be careful today, I'm at 9.8TB already, don't want to go over the 10TB mark this month :)
[18:07] <AlanBell> don't you have the edubuntu cloud thing on your servers?
[18:07] <stgraber> yeah, weblive is at hetzner but I'm blocking internet access from those as we had quite a bit of abuse in the past
[18:14] <czajkowski> evening folks
[18:20] <AlanBell> well KVM without hardware accelleration is a bit slow isn't it
[18:21] <tombrough> lol - bit? that's like say the ocean has a few buckets of water.....
[18:25] <AlanBell> tombrough: yeah, I wasn't in a hurry as such, but it is not doing anything much apart from 100%cpu
[18:25] <tombrough> we have Xen for our linux/oracle  (under Oracle's VM Cluster Managemenr rollout) at work (as well as VMWARE) and its amazing how many servers we can get running, our biggest problem has been running out of physical memory as oracle needs it, but processors hardly break a sweat.
[18:25] <tombrough> of course the VMWARE guys are in networks and are pro microsoft technology, but they start shuffling and coughing when you mention that VMWARE is really linux under the hood.
[18:25] <AlanBell> it is
[18:26] <tombrough> yeah VM support in the cores makes a huge difference.
[18:28] <AlanBell> we get a heap of vms running  on our servers, but I wanted to test an upgrade
[18:28] <AlanBell> doesn't seem to want to run on an atom processor or in a VM on my laptop
[18:29] <AlanBell> kvm in a virtualbox vm
[18:37] <penguin42> AlanBell: kvm inside kvm works ok
[18:39] <AlanBell> running kvm-ok inside a kvm vm tells me it isn't supported
[18:40] <penguin42> AlanBell: On which host?
[18:41] <penguin42> AlanBell: The outer kvm needs to be relatively new (12.04 works OK)
[18:41] <AlanBell> oh bother
[18:41]  * AlanBell is in a maze of twisty passages
[18:43] <AlanBell> this might be something that I should be using EC2 for
[18:43] <AlanBell> kvm in EC2 works OK I assume?
[18:43]  * penguin42 hasn't tried
[18:44] <penguin42> AlanBell: Is this because you haven't got a spare box to try 12.04 on to see if you can migrate?
[18:44] <AlanBell> yeah, I want to start with 10.04 running kvm
[18:44] <AlanBell> then upgrade the host to 12.04
[18:44] <AlanBell> and see what happens to a paused VM
[18:44] <Azelphur> does anyone know how to find out when an area is scheduled for BT infinity upgrade?
[18:44] <penguin42> AlanBell: Can I ask you a nasty question? What happens if one of your customer facing hosts blows up? You have a spare right?
[18:45] <penguin42> Azelphur: Try samknows
[18:45] <AlanBell> penguin42: we can buy a spare really quick, and if the hardware blows up hetzner has to replace it (and we have backups etc)
[18:45] <penguin42> AlanBell: Oh ok, they're all hetzner things
[18:46] <penguin42> sorry, hadn't realised they were all like that
[18:46] <Azelphur> penguin42: it just says "FFTC is available in my area" but when I go to BT to order, it's not.
[18:46] <AlanBell> yeah, we have 4 hetzner boxes and one elsewhere
[18:46] <Azelphur> my exchange is enabled, but my house isn't XD
[18:46] <penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh I have the same problem
[18:46] <AlanBell> Azelphur: wander the streets and look at the posters on the green boxes
[18:47] <penguin42> Azelphur: In my case I don't think it's going to happen because there isn't the space on the street for the box
[18:47] <Azelphur> AlanBell: fun
[18:47] <AlanBell> penguin42: the cabinet will already be there somewhere
[18:48] <AlanBell> they just have to run fibre to the cabinet, and install a thingie to make it all work in the cabinet and another thingie in your house that has an ethernet port on it
[18:48] <penguin42> AlanBell: I don't believe the cabinet on our road has been replaced by a fibre capable cab because I don't think there is the room for the larger cab
[18:49] <AlanBell> oh, didn't know they were larger
[18:50] <penguin42> AlanBell: Very noticeably - there are some changes to planning laws they're doing for them, but they're noticably larger; watch out for the ones with the vents on and the 'danger 230v' sticker
[18:50] <penguin42> AlanBell: The older ones are just passive junction boxes
[18:51] <AlanBell> oh ok
[18:52] <penguin42> AlanBell: New one http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2672/050ea.jpg
[18:52] <AlanBell> yeah, thats what we have round here
[18:53] <penguin42> AlanBell: Old http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tddZEe934uk/TmzABGhFi6I/AAAAAAAAAR0/GDr2jim3hi8/s1600/Wilmslow+Rd+BT+exchange+street+cabinet.JPG
[23:40] <pinky-> Slackware 14.0 now available
[23:40] <Darael> Shiny.
[23:42] <pinky-> I only mentioned because peeps were chatting about it yesterday
[23:43] <pinky-> Slackware that is
[23:43] <Darael> Indeed.