[00:19] <fuhrer_> help me
[00:22] <monkeyjuice> dont know what you need fuhrer_
[01:12] <justin___> When installing a *.deb package, I navagate to the folder where it's located and do a sudo apt-get?
[01:23] <Dreadtower> Just run  it. It knows how to  unpack things
[01:23] <Dreadtower> So, the following will install package tomatoes
[01:23] <Dreadtower> [It doesn;t exist]
[01:24] <Dreadtower> sudo apt-get install tomatoes
[01:24] <Dreadtower> From anywhere
[01:28] <Dreadtower> Also try 'man apt-get' for the manual page
[01:55] <justin___> thanks
[05:09] <Schrodinger`Cat> hey
[05:09] <Schrodinger`Cat> with firefox 15.0.0.1 and kde, i cant open menus on firefox
[05:10] <Schrodinger`Cat> i have no problem with others gtk applications
[05:53] <foormea> hi. i see the zoom in/out keyboard shortcuts seem not to work anymore on yakuake 2.9.8. am i stupid and not finding the option to re-enable the ctrl-alt-+/- in the options or has it just disappeared?
[06:39] <brohan> Hi there
[07:14] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:14] <Solak> Hello.
[07:16] <lordievader> Hey Solak, how are you?
[07:19]  * Solak is enjoying the new computer with kubuntu :-)
[07:20] <Solak> it's different from an upgraded 12.04 though... I can't find how to 'restore' some old settings :/
[07:25] <Solak> i.e. in the previous config I had a folder with often used applications which was visible on the Desktop, but when I copy it and select 'folderview' nothing happens.
[07:32] <tmoenicke> mzanetti: ping
[08:36] <planet> what version am i usgin?
[08:36] <planet> i need to know that
[08:36] <susundbe1g> of what?
[08:37] <susundbe1g> version of what program i mean
[08:37] <planet> of kubuntu
[08:37] <susundbe1g> i usually just do 'cat /etc/issue' but i guess there is more sophisticated way also
[08:38] <planet> what is the uh
[08:39] <planet> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS \n \l
[08:39] <planet> the code name
[08:39] <susundbe1g> i think you can find out that with google
[08:39] <tsimpson> that's precise
[08:41] <planet> why the hell are all the windwos tiling automatically
[09:00] <avihay> Schrodinger`Cat: close firefox, open firefox, fixed
[11:53] <inetkiller> ?
[11:53] <inetkiller> somebody here/
[11:54] <Smurphy> .oO(only zombies ...)
[12:49] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:54] <chumma> start up disk creator not detecting cd. i am on ubuntu 11.10 i want to create a 12.04 live cd
[12:54] <chumma> it detects iso
[13:08] <skreech_> hi BluesKaj
[13:11] <BluesKaj> hey skreech_
[13:54] <phoenix_firebrd> hello everyone
[14:10] <em> In Konsole there is a setting for 'smooth fonts'. It is a checkbox. I am wondering, what is the use case where you would not want smooth fonts?
[14:13] <BluesKaj> em the best setting for readable fonts IME is the dpi setting in system settings>application appearance>fonts, force fonts dpi and enable antialiasing
[14:21] <lordievader> Good afternoon
[14:31] <Brustofski-Fan> ? installed ubuntu 12.10 unity... how do i do a purekde
[14:39] <BluesKaj> !purekde
[14:40] <Pici> they're gone.
[14:41] <BluesKaj> yup , but I was curious if the factoid was there
[15:24] <analex> Good Morning everyone....
[15:25] <analex> anyone here knows how to get Visuall C++ to work on Linux? and also Microsoft SQL Server?
[15:25] <lordievader> analex: Run Windows in a VM?
[15:26] <analex> VM? Like WINE?/
[15:26] <lordievader> analex: No a VM like Virtualbox.
[15:26] <lordievader> analex: Or it might work in Wine.
[15:30] <analex> gonna try that.. hope it works....
[15:30] <lordievader> analex: Did Wine work? Might be an easier solution.
[15:31] <analex> gonna try the wine now..... didn't try running windows in it.... was only trying to run software in it.
[15:31] <skreech_> lordievader: #winehq would probably know buti'd bet SQL Server is undocumented enough to not work
[15:32] <skreech_> actually #Mono might be a good place to start
[15:32] <lordievader> analex: I didn't mean running Windows in Wine... Just the programs..
[15:33] <analex> well, the visual C++ not working in it so far... installed like more than one versions.
[15:34] <lordievader> analex: Hmm, thought so. I guess you got to choose between running a VM or a dual-boot.
[15:34] <lordievader> analex: Unless there is a linux alternative for it all.
[15:35] <skreech_> monodevelop
[15:35] <skreech_> or Kdevelop of course
[15:35] <analex> wanted to avoid a dualboot
[15:35] <skreech_> analex: VM ?
[15:36] <analex> Virtual Machine
[15:37] <analex> MonoDevelop is for C# need to do C++. Have class work to do....
[15:38] <skreech_> analex: For Microsoft SQl
[15:38] <skreech_> ?
[15:39] <skreech_> Or just an SQL database?
[15:39] <skreech_> Cause Kdevelop and anynumber of SQL databases is pretty easy to come by
[15:39] <analex> Have SQL Database to do and also C++
[15:40] <skreech_> I think install kdevelop and dropping by in #kde-devel might be instructive
[16:18] <rapidsp> why ktorrent does not start torrent after his start?
[16:18] <rapidsp> im starting torrents manually
[16:18] <spook_> hello
[16:18] <rapidsp> hi
[16:19] <spook_> i'm new to kubuntu and now i'm facing some problems
[16:19] <rapidsp> i updated to 4.9.1 and clean kde home
[16:19] <spook_> problem is i can't upgrade
[16:20] <rapidsp> spook_: whats kind of upgrade?
[16:20] <spook_> apt-get update work fines
[16:20] <spook_> apt-get upgrade doesn't work
[16:20] <rapidsp> what it sayd?
[16:23] <BluesKaj> spook_, you've obviously upgraded to the latest , but you may need to enable canonical and independent repositories in your package manager , for other software
[16:26] <spook_> so, how can i enable those repositories
[16:26] <spook_> please see my errors, http://paste.pro/5159226
[16:27] <rapidsp> may be local server is not up to date
[16:27] <rapidsp> try use main server
[16:33] <BluesKaj> spook_, run , sudo dpkg --configure -a;sudo apt-get -f install
[16:36] <spook_> ok
[16:36] <spook_> i got these, http://paste.pro/5159228
[16:38] <brohan> anyone here?
[16:39] <brohan> I have some questions about video and upgrade issues
[16:41] <spook_> this one, http://paste.pro/5159230
[16:41] <BluesKaj> spook_, you need to install the kde backports repository
[16:41] <BluesKaj> !backports
[16:42] <spook_> ok, thanks, i'm trying
[16:42] <BluesKaj> then you have to run sudo dist-upgrade
[16:42] <BluesKaj> err sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:45] <BluesKaj> brohan , what is your question ?
[16:45] <bazhang> he's gone
[16:45] <BluesKaj> he's still on the server
[16:46] <bazhang> not on this channel though
[16:46] <BluesKaj> maybe the highlighter will work , if it's setup
[16:49] <brohan> hello
[16:49] <BluesKaj> ok brohan , what's the issue with your graohics?
[16:50] <brohan> First, I downloaded Kubuntu 12.10 beta 1 created an iso thumbdrive and booted from it
[16:50] <brohan> all went well
[16:50] <brohan> I installed from thumbdrive
[16:50] <brohan> all went well
[16:50] <brohan> I transfered my files from backup, all was well
[16:50] <brohan> I did the recommended upgrade
[16:51] <brohan> When I logged in, the login screen was fine however then no systray, no launcher, right click didn't work, nothing worked
[16:51] <BluesKaj> to the graphics card in additional drivers ?
[16:51] <brohan> A little more expl;anation
[16:51] <brohan> I had win 7 on the first partition
[16:52] <brohan> Just now I used gparted to erase that partition, so now the only O/S on my system is Kubuntu. I am reinstalling from the thumbdrive as we speak
[16:52] <BluesKaj> did you upgrade the graphics drivers in addtional drivers?
[16:52] <brohan> I must have
[16:52] <brohan> So with this new fresh install I will NOT upgrade anything until I know what not to upgrade
[16:53] <BluesKaj> which graphics card?
[16:53] <brohan> I should know but I don't
[16:54] <brohan> I want to say amd x1400
[16:54] <BluesKaj> lspci |grep VGA
[16:54] <brohan> I will do that once I get the install done which should be in a few minutes
[16:54] <BluesKaj> ok
[16:54] <brohan> I am doing this on my laptop, talking to you on an old desktop
[16:55] <brohan> Thank you for your help!
[16:55] <BluesKaj> brohan, are you installing 12.10 ?
[16:56] <brohan> yes
[16:56] <brohan> beta 1 as that was available wheni downloaded the iso
[16:56] <slevsk> всем привет :)
[16:57] <bazhang> !ru | slevsk
[16:57] <slevsk> ok
[16:57] <slevsk> thx
[16:58] <brohan> Right now it is 90% done and downloading packages
[16:58] <BluesKaj> then brohan by rights we should discuss this in #ubuntu+1
[16:58] <brohan> I can go there
[16:58] <BluesKaj> yes , I see you there :)
[17:06] <spook_> i've tried to install the backports,
[17:06] <spook_> i failed
[17:06] <spook_> :(
[17:07] <spook_> i've changed the software center server to MAin server
[17:08] <spook_> and now, this one came out, http://paste.pro/5159233
[17:08] <spook_> my bad
[17:19] <rapidsp> spanner: you're running another apt app
[17:19] <rapidsp> may be synaptic or its GUI settings
[17:20] <rapidsp> sorry... spook_ gone
[17:30] <GirlyGirl> I want to completely remove ubuntu-desktop packages on Kubuntu 12.10, any ideas?
[17:33] <BluesKaj> !purekde | GirlyGirl
[17:34] <BluesKaj> or did you already look there and reject the suggestions , GirlyGirl?
[17:34] <GirlyGirl> BluesKaj: Already rejected as that is for 12.04
[17:36] <BluesKaj> well, that's understandable since 12.10 is still in Beta
[17:36] <BluesKaj> reinstall kubuntu to / if you have one
[18:01] <Scunizi> For some reason Gimp will no longer load.  Trying from CLI I get the following warning.. How do I fix this? (gimp:23331): GLib-WARNING **: /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.30.0/./glib/goption.c:2168: ignoring no-arg, optional-arg or filename flags (8) on option of type 0
[18:56] <jacobw> i'm using 12.04, i've just installed the amarok mp3 plugins and using the qtapt helper thing, amarok is crashing while transistioning between songs
[18:57] <jacobw> is this a known issue?
[18:57]  * jacobw remembers rock stable 1.4 ..
[19:19] <Peace-> jacobw: mmm bad stuff
[19:40] <dmatt> if i want to install fglrx, what should I use in 12.10? jockey doesn't suggest anything and i Heard it is being deprecated
[19:41] <lordievader> dmatt: I'd say use the installer from amd.com
[19:42] <dmatt> lordievader: i can try that but this does not sound like official supported way
[19:44] <lordievader> dmatt: It probably isn't, no. However I'm not sure about the support of a beta version of Kubuntu either. Try the #ubuntu+1 channel, that is for beta versions, not this one.
[19:44] <dmatt> I already suffered a lot when i upgraded with fglrx enabled and it was not released for Quantal
[19:45] <dmatt> lordievader: I actually asked there before but no response
[19:46] <BluesKaj> dmatt, best to ask in #ubuntu+1
[19:46] <lordievader> dmatt: That could be but in here 12.10 is not (yet) supported. So I think the only thing you can do is wait.
[19:46] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Already said so ;)
[19:46] <BluesKaj> !12.10
[19:47] <dmatt> BluesKaj: i first tried there and only after no aswer was given I went to this channel
[19:48] <BluesKaj> but there are some issues with ati graphics on 12.10 , hence the reluctance to answer since there doesn't seem to be many answers
[19:49] <BluesKaj> dmatt,^
[19:49] <BluesKaj> sorry lordievader , didn't notice your post
[19:49] <dmatt> BluesKaj: it is test install and I want to test beta release and report bugs if found
[19:50] <BluesKaj> which card is it, dmatt?
[19:50] <dmatt> BluesKaj: ATI RV620 [Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series]
[19:50] <lordievader> BluesKaj, dmatt: Shouldn't this continue in #ubuntu+1 you are both in there, I believe.
[19:51] <dmatt> lordievader: OK
[19:52] <BluesKaj> lordievader, problem is with 12.04 and 12.10 , and the issue is basically the same with ati nowadays
[19:53] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Hmm, allright.
[20:08] <analex> finally getting oracle  virtualbox to work...
[20:11] <lordievader> analex: What kind of troubles did you have with it?
[20:27] <thechef> I have many problems with the Package Managent tools in KDE. Once I had Muon remove kubuntu-desktop and muon, QApt is marking dependencies as manually installed. How can I recover from such faults? How can I mark all packages as automatically installed, except those who are manually installed after a default install
[20:27] <ovidiu-florin> hello, where are the icons stored for the /usr/shared/applications/*.desktop files?
[20:28] <GH0> Could someone assist me in setting up logwatch? I had it working at one point, eventually it just stopped, so I removed the packages (logwatch and postfix) and purged the conf files and set it up again following the instructions from the Ubuntu site and editing the logwatch conf file to send it to my e-mail. But i am getting this: http://pastebin.com/dtUwKf3F
[20:28] <thechef> I can then probe apt-get autoremove and will see which functionality I still need and then mark them manually again
[20:31] <thechef> ovidiu-florin: some are here: /usr/share/pixmaps/
[20:31] <mocha> why
[20:34] <ovidiu-florin> thechef: and if the application is installed in home?
[20:34] <thechef> ovidiu-florin: then the .desktop file won't be in /usr/share/applications
[20:34] <thechef> ovidiu-florin: maybe it helps to open the desktop-file with kate
[20:35] <ovidiu-florin> I know that, I want to find the icon mentioned in /home/username/app/app.desktop
[20:36] <ovidiu-florin> sorry, I meant /home/username/.local/share/applications/app.desktop
[20:37] <thechef> ovidiu-florin: what does kate say?
[20:38] <ovidiu-florin> I-ve solved it, they were in ~/.local/share/icons/hicolor/........
[20:39] <ovidiu-florin> in my app.desktop file the filename of the icon was wrong, and I needed the actual filename
[20:47] <neotom> hello
[20:48] <neotom> i am wondering about how to add other widget platforms to plasma such as google gadgets
[20:56] <artao> L3top: you around?
[20:56] <artao> apparently not
[20:57] <artao> any xrandr gurus about? esp. in connection with NVidia graphics cards?
[20:57] <artao> plz
[21:06] <artao> GAHHH
[21:06] <artao> WTF!!!
[21:07] <artao> Linux (Kubuntu 12.04) is seeing both monitors as ONE big wide screen. not as two monitors. ... i KNOW i set it up as two seperate x-screens .. under the NVidia setting panel
[21:07] <artao> and then i restarted X
[21:07] <artao> i CAN NOT have one big wide screen .. my two monitors don't support the same refresh rates
[21:08] <artao> i MUST have two seperate displays
[21:08] <artao> ABSOLUTELY must
[21:08] <artao> this channel is amazingly dead for having so many people logged into it
[21:08] <artao> :\
[21:09] <dmatt> artao: dou you use nvidia driver or noveau?
[21:09] <artao> nvidia
[21:09] <artao> hold on. gotta reboot again
[21:10] <artao> just made an x-server change
[21:10] <artao> brb
[21:10] <dmatt> so you need to set it in nvidia, not in xrandr
[21:15] <artao> GAAHHHHHH ARRRRRHHHHHGGGGGGGG
[21:15]  * artao screams and punches babies
[21:15] <artao> GAHHH
[21:16] <artao> the fricken NVidia control panel keep fricken reverting to "TwinView" instead of "seperate x-screen for each monitor"
[21:16] <artao> GAHHHHHH
[21:16] <artao> WTF
[21:16] <FloodBotK1> artao: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[21:16] <artao> STFU FloodBotK1
[21:16] <artao> boy this is pissing me RIGHT off
[21:16] <GH0> artao, calm down, you aren't going to get any help yelling.
[21:16] <GH0> Or yeah... that
[21:17] <artao> um... did i just get kicked for some reason? what did i do?
[21:18] <IdleOne> artao: please calm down, don't swear and read the link ubottu sent you so you know what is expected and acceptable behaviour in this channel.
[21:18] <artao> why does linux have such a hard time with multiple monitors??
[21:18] <artao> when did I swear?
[21:18] <brohan> I need some serious install with backup restore help, anyone game?
[21:18] <artao> the 'P' word? seriously? that's considered "swearing" here? >.> fine whatever
[21:19] <GH0> "stfu FloodBotK1"
[21:19] <artao> and "calm down" ... ... right ... for something SO simple and irritating .. I've re-set the NVidiia control panel like 4 times now .. every time it comes back as a single screen x-session
[21:19] <GH0> Did you read what dmatt sent to you?
[21:20] <artao> i must've been mid-reboot .. i see no links from dmatt
[21:20] <artao> my previous video card, an ATI, worked FINE with multi-screen ... why is NVidia having such a hard time retaining my settings?
[21:20] <brohan> I tried 12.10 live CD, worked great, I then installed it over my 12.04. All was well, restored my backup, and rebooted, I could log in, but that was it, no tray, no mouse right click menu etc.
 so you need to set it in nvidia, not in xrandr
[21:21] <artao> yeah
[21:21] <artao> i have been
[21:21] <brohan> I did a format, an install of 12.10, and upgradated it, everything is fine. I want to restors my home dir that I backed up from 12.04. How do I do it so it doesn't mess up my desktop/graphics?
[21:22] <artao> however, xrandr doesn't seem to think my primary monitor is capable of 75hz .. whereas the NVidia display panel says it is .. yet when I set the NVidia panel to 75hz then chck xrandr on CLI.. it reports a refresh of 51hz
[21:22] <artao> no good at all ... i have NO IDEA what refresh I'm acutally running at ... altho the way the monitor sometimes makes my eyes glaze over leads me to believe it's ACTUALLY running at the xrandr stated 51hz and NOT 75hz like I set it in the NVidia control panel
[21:23] <dmatt> artao: check in monitor OSD menu, sometimes there is also freqvency stated
[21:23] <artao> the what? OSD menu? what's that and where?
[21:24] <dmatt> on monitor there are few buttons, one of them should be menu
[21:24] <artao> umm
[21:25] <dmatt> so go through options and look for info or something similar
[21:26] <artao> well, looks like the monitor is reporting 75hz
[21:26] <artao> sothat's good i guess
[21:26] <dmatt> so thats the right number
[21:26] <artao> so that's working ... next up is getting the system to see each monitor as a seperate x-display
[21:27] <dmatt> I believe this has to be done by nvidia configurtation tool
[21:27] <artao> i need to be able to apply different gamma and color correction to each monitor individually ... not possible with one x-screen
[21:27] <artao> i've set it to seperate x-screens like 4 times now ...every time i restart, it comes back up as one x-screen
[21:27] <dmatt> even though I am not sure, I had only AMD always
[21:27] <artao> i have in the past .. i went NVidia for teh CUDA for GPGPU stuff
[21:28] <dmatt> hm, my colleague too - and he never used it really
[21:29] <artao> i do. it's made a previously hour-long render take less than 10 minutes =D
[21:31] <dmatt> ok, so did you use sudo nvidia-settings?
[21:32] <artao> um. wow. didn't even occur to me.
[21:33] <artao> restarting again after doing that
[21:36] <rahiym> has anyone else tried installing Nvidia drivers and wound up with resolution smaller than 800 x 600?
[21:46] <brohan> I installed 12.10, and did an update, now I can't find the Muon software manager
[21:49] <brohan> what is the command line to install muon suite?
[21:50] <dmatt> brohan: ALT-F2 muon does not work?
[21:50] <brohan> NO
[21:50] <brohan> I just did a fresh install on 12.10
[21:50] <brohan> updated it
[21:50] <brohan> and now I go into the KDE menu, or alt-f2 and type muon
[21:50] <brohan> nada
[21:51] <brohan> Not the package manager, the software center of the update manager
[21:51] <dmatt> brohan: sudo apt-get update & sudo apt-get install muon
[21:52] <dmatt> ehm, not &, use &&
[21:52] <artao> hm
[21:52] <brohan> thank you dmatt
[21:52] <brohan> odd don't you think?
[21:52] <brohan> I used it to udate\
[21:52] <artao> okay. seems i needed to save the settings to my xorg.conf ... now it's seeing two seperate x-screens ... but I can't seem to put anything on the 2nd monitor ... i try to drag windows onto it, and they just stop at the edge of monitor 1
[21:52] <brohan> update
[21:53] <dmatt> artao: thats how to separate X screen should work
[21:53] <artao> this is really really really really irritating ... VERY glad to read that Ubuntu is finally going to address the ridiculosity of multi-monitors under linux ... too late for me tho. i need it to work nao!
[21:53] <artao> dmatt, I heartily disagree
[21:54] <artao> the behaviour i expect and desire is two seperate screens which i can use interchangably
[21:54] <dmatt> well, maybe this helps you http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1972628
[21:55] <artao> thx
[21:55] <artao> maybe it will. reading now. <sigh>
[21:56]  * artao shakes his head
[21:57] <brohan> dmatt, running that line only installed muon package manager, not the software manager or update
[21:59] <brohan> dmatt although in the package manager is shows that the update manager, looks like there is another one muon discover
[22:02] <TSK> To run apps on a second X screen you have to TELL the app to run on the second X instance.  'export DISPLAY=":0.1" && xbmc' for example is how I load up my XBMC on my second Xorg instance (on the bigscreen TV to my right).
[22:03] <TSK> If you want to be able to just drag apps between the two screens then you don't want a SEPERATE X screen.  You want twinview or xinerama.
[22:04] <artao> okay. what the heck is compiz and why would i want it and do i need it?
[22:04] <TSK> twinview or xinerama are both modes that are much more similar to the dual monitor handling you'd find on other operating systems.
[22:04] <artao> TSK, okay .. but with Twinview i can't adjust the color correction settings for each monitor individually ... at least not that i can find
[22:04] <TSK> compiz is the fancy 3D desktop effects that allow compositing and transitions and other neat stuff like that.
[22:05] <TSK> Compiz isn't strictly necessary, but it's nice for those who enjoy a little extra eye-candy to their desktop experience.
[22:05] <artao> i .. uh ... okay .. um ... i'm pretty sure i have fancy desktop effects running .. but on CLI if i do "compiz" it tells me compiz isn't installed XD
[22:06] <TSK> It's become default on most desktops because that seems to be what most folk expect from a "modern" desktop.
[22:06] <dmatt> brohan: sudo apt-get install muon-updater muon-installer update-manager-kde libmuonprivate1 muon-notifier libdebconf-kde0
[22:06] <TSK> artao: Well, compiz isn't the ONLY way to get fancy effects.  There's also KDE's kwin, and clutter, and a couple few others if I remember rightly.  :)
[22:06] <artao> so i switch back to Twinview ... how do I adjust the color settings of each monitor individually then
[22:09] <TSK> artao: According to what I read at http://askubuntu.com/questions/79117/whats-the-best-alternative-to-twinview-so-i-can-calibrate-both-my-monitors-inde apparently you want Xinerama rather than Twinview if you must calibrate seperate monitors differently from one another.
[22:09] <artao> orly?
[22:09] <artao> um .. kay
[22:09] <artao> BOY this is overly confusing XD
[22:10] <dmatt> artao: maybe you could set calibration directly on monitor (through the menu)
[22:11] <TSK> artao: No more "overly confusing" than any OTHER operating system would be were you not already familir with it.  ;)
[22:11] <artao> nope. not possible. monitor 2 is old and even at max brightness it's still too dark .. i need to up the gamma for it .. AND do a semi-proper color calibration
[22:11] <artao> TSK well .. win 7 just did it right without me doing anything for example :\
[22:12] <TSK> I used to find Windows "overly confusing" when I was first getting used to it.  These days, they're all pretty much the same to me.  Just tools for getting stuff done.  :)
[22:12] <artao> and i suppose Twinview is really the behaviour most people want and expect .. my need for seperate calibration configs is beyond the norm. i admit and accept that.
[22:12] <dmatt> brohan: or alternatively, just install kubuntu-desktop and ypou should get back everything missing from standard install
[22:13] <TSK> artao: Win 7 does admittedly simplify some tasks (such as dual monitor setup) to the point of being automatic or nearly so.  On the other hand there are SOME things that Win7 overly complicates, too.  All operating systems have their strengths and weaknesses.  :)
[22:14] <artao> true. but it's pretty common knowledge that linux + dual monitors ... needs work, shall we say
[22:14] <TSK> One example of a strength of Ubuntu, and Linux in general that I enjoy is TRUE plug-n-play.  I plug in hardware and 99% of the time it "just works".  No driver installation or anything.  :)
[22:14] <TSK> I do the same on Mac at work, too.
[22:14] <artao> LOL again, i have issues with that .. i can't hot-plug my Wacom tablet for instance
[22:14] <artao> not that i really need to
[22:15] <TSK> On Win7, that'd require a CD or DVD with drivers 90% of the time.  :)
[22:15] <TSK> And often a reboot, too.  :)
[22:15] <artao> nah. win 7 just looks it up online
[22:15] <artao> =]
[22:15] <artao> windows .. "you've pressed a key, I need to reboot" LOLOLZ
[22:15] <TSK> ROFL
[22:15] <dmatt> artao: i just setup my dual monitors in amdcccle once and it works
[22:15] <artao> amdcccle??? XD
[22:17] <dmatt> artao: that amd setup thing, name might be different, i am on test boot now
[22:18] <TSK> In my case, SEPERATE x screens are actually what I WANT for MY needs.  I only run certain apps on the other monitor and never have a need to move them back and forth, so I just set their icon or menu entry so it launches on the second screen ALWAYS.  :)
[22:19] <TSK> Xinerama or Twinview are the behavior MOST folk would be expecting tho.
[22:19] <artao> fair nuf. won't work for my needs. i need to drag windows back and forth regularly ... also drag-n-drop files between monitors
[22:19] <artao> reading that thread re: xinerama
[22:19] <TSK> Yar.  Xinerama for you.  Twinview for most folk.  :)
[22:19] <artao> i thought xinerama was a media player XD
[22:20] <TSK> Xine
[22:20] <TSK> Yer thinkin' of...  :)
[22:21] <TSK> And it's actually a pretty decent media player, too.  :)
[22:21] <artao> AH! of course
[22:21] <TSK> Simple, but plays a TON of formats, like VLC does.  :)
[22:22] <artao> okay. restarting X with xinerama
[22:22] <artao> brb
[22:23] <TSK> Hopefully that xinerama'll get 'em goin' with what they need...
[22:24] <TSK> WB, artao
[22:25] <TSK> Luck?  :)
[22:26] <artao> nope
[22:26] <artao> still can't adjust gamma/color seperately
[22:26] <artao> actually .. i make adjustments now and it only affects my primary monitor ... there ARE no options for the secondary XD
[22:27] <TSK> Strange
[22:27] <TSK> Lemme go look at my nvidia-settings and xrandr
[22:28] <artao> and it breaks compositing
[22:28] <TSK> Well, bugger, that's no fun.
[22:29] <artao> restarting again. back to regular Twinview
[22:29] <TSK> Alrighty
[22:31] <artao> crap. i'm still not getting the "desktop flip" effect now ... it WAS working before i tried xinerama XD

[22:32] <SIR_Taco_> http://www.progdan.cz/2012/09/display-management-in-kde/
[22:34] <artao> and now monitor 2 looks washed out
[22:34] <artao> yeah, i've read that they're "working on it" SIR_Taco_ =]
[22:34] <artao> i anxiously await it being fully fixed
[22:37] <dmatt> anybody using two panels? I want to put application launchers on second panel, but it is always added only to first one
[22:37] <artao> i use two panels
[22:37] <artao> left side is all launchers, bottom is taskbar and open windows
[22:38] <dmatt> (actually I solved it just as I finished the question :) - but how do you do it?
[22:38] <artao> i add launchers to my launcher panel just by "editing" it to do so. they always go to the panel i'm editing
[22:39] <dmatt> I have the same setup with launchers on left with autohide
[22:39] <artao> wait. no. ... how did i do that agaiN XD
[22:39] <artao> hmm
[22:39] <dmatt> what do tou mean by "editing"?
[22:40] <artao> unlock widgets, then the "Panel Tool Box" button
[22:41] <dmatt> I know two ways how to achieve it, the better one just occured to me when I put the question here
[22:41] <TSK> Yep.  I do the same.  The panel toolbox at the end of the panel.
[22:42] <dmatt> but i am still curious how you did it, may be it's even better
[22:42] <artao> how do YOU do it? ... i've tried simple drag-n-drop and that didn't work
[22:42] <dmatt> TSK: but how do you add application launcher?
[22:42] <TSK> I use one panel for launchers and such, and the other panel for informational type widgets.
[22:43] <artao> dmatt: add widget>application launcher
[22:43] <artao> requires hand-editing the launcher tho :\
[22:43] <artao> restarting again ... trying to get compositing back <sigh>
[22:43] <TSK> dmatt: Same as artao does it.  When you "unlock widgets" (from the right click menu) each toolbar gets a butten at the end of it.  You click that button to activate that bar's edit mode.
[22:45] <TSK> artao: I'm just reading some further pages about dual monitor separate color calibration. Since I've never really needed to do it, it's new to me.  :)
[22:45] <dmatt> ah I see, never found that particul;ar widget, namers are localised and I must have missed it
[22:45] <artao> grrr
[22:45] <dmatt> but I think I found better way
[22:46] <artao> okay. back down to single monitor, trying to get compositing back ... the desktop effects system config panel is tellimg me "Required X extensions (XComposite and XDamage) are not available"
[22:46] <artao> how do i get them back? XD
[22:46] <artao> D'OH
[22:46] <artao> TSK, calibration is kinda a PITA .. but very important for graphics work
[22:47] <artao> and i'm only doing it software .. i can't afford a hardware calibrator
[22:47] <TSK> artao: Maybe move your xorg.conf out of the way and try to create a fresh one with nvidia-settings ?
[22:47] <artao> hmm
[22:48] <dmatt> in KMenu(or is it Krunner) - simply that "K" icon when you right-click application, you can send it to panel... but you need to add K button to panel where you want to add launchers
[22:48] <dmatt> then remove "K" and done
[22:48] <TSK> artao: I have littlecms or tinycms or something like that installed, but I've never yet messed with it because the only graphics work I do is in GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender, but never yet had complaints about nor issues with my colors yet.
[22:49] <TSK> dmatt: krunner is the thing that pops up when you alt-f2 I believe.  So kmenu must be it.  :)
[22:49] <artao> my two monitors display colors quite differently ... one is a CRT and the other an LCD
[22:49] <artao> the CRT is too blue and washed out
[22:49] <artao> it's old ... but i can't afford a new monitor
[22:50] <brohan> then make a clrctd out of them combined
[22:51] <brohan> sorry, bad attempt a humor
[22:51] <TSK> artao: Ah.  Mine is a flat-panel HDTV
[22:51] <artao> AHA!! :: Section "Extensions" >> Option >> "Composite" "Disable"
[22:52] <TSK> dmatt: I don't actually need to add a kmenu to any panel except the one where I want to leave it at permanently.  :)
[22:52] <artao> in xorg.conf
[22:52] <TSK> artao: AhHA
[22:52] <TSK> That'd do it
[22:52] <artao> do i just comment that out (i.e. with # .. right?) or change it to "Enable" or what?
[22:52] <TSK> I'd just change it to "Enable"
[22:52] <TSK> Or perhaps "True"
[22:53] <artao> i don't know either
[22:53] <TSK> I'd try "Enable" first tho.
[22:53] <artao> also, hand-editing xorg.conf is rather frowned upon, no?
[22:53] <dmatt> TSK: I believe its faster to right click on applications and the remove kmenu from that panel than manually edit all launchers
[22:53] <TSK> artao: Depends on how comfortable you are with hand editing config files.  ;)
[22:54] <TSK> It's frowned upon to suggest it to folk who are utterly new to the concept tho, I'm fairly sure, as it scares a lotta folk silly.  ;)
[22:54] <TSK> dmatt: I don't manually edit all launchers.  Only the launcher I wanna add a widget to.
[22:55] <TSK> Only the PANEL I wanna add a widget to, that is.
[22:55] <artao> aaaaaaaaaaaaaand restartagain
[22:56] <TSK> artao: Hehehe...  The restarts are just to make sure Windows users feel at home here.  ;)
[22:57] <artao> yay. compositing back. changed it to "Enable" just so you know TSK =]
[22:57] <artao> is there no way to restart x server from CLI ??
[22:57] <TSK> Honestly tho, the ONLY time I reboot my machine or restart my xorg is for xorg.conf changes, or kernel upgrades.  :)
[22:57] <dmatt> TSK: I am not sure I understand you correctly - I added 10 applications launchers( or shortcuts) to second panel. I believe if I added each as a generic launcher widget, I would have to edit them all to point to different applications
[22:57] <TSK> artao: Aye, there is indeed.
[22:58] <TSK> artao: You restart your display manager (kdm on Kubuntu).  "service kdm restart"
[22:58] <TSK> (or "sudo service kdm restart" actually)
[22:58] <artao> orly?
[22:59] <TSK> Since kdm is a root run service.
[22:59] <TSK> ROFL!  He must have tested the theory.  ;)
[23:00] <artao> sure nuf ... pretty much the same as logging out and back in it seems
[23:00] <TSK> Welcome back, artao.  I guess you tested the sudo service kdm restart command, eh?  :)
[23:00] <artao> had to log in via CLI then do a startx to get kde back up
[23:01] <TSK> artao: startx?  Should be able to just "sudo service kdm start"
[23:01] <TSK> start if it's not running yet, restart if it's running, but you've changed config settings.
[23:02] <artao> ah. oops.
[23:02] <artao> seeing how many settings changes I've made recently, I'm gonna do a full reboot now
[23:02] <artao> =]
[23:02] <TSK> dmatt: So you mean individual launchers for individual apps then?  I usually just drag those directly out of my kmenu on to the desktop, or onto one of my panels.
[23:02] <TSK> artao: Should not be necessary.  :)
[23:03] <TSK> If all the changes were in xorg.conf, restarting xorg should be more'n enough.  :)
[23:03] <artao> perhaps. it's the windows user in me i guess. still gonna do it. :P
[23:03] <TSK> Heheheh
[23:04] <dmatt> TSK: so that's the right approach, just drag from menu
[23:05] <dmatt> TSK: because dragging from menu to menu dose not work correctly
[23:05] <TSK> dmatt: That's what I've always done.  The "right approach" I'd guess is the one that works best for YOU.  ;)
[23:05] <TSK> dmatt: Dragging from menu to menu I've never had a need to try, but dragging from the menu out to the desktop or to a panel or even into the quick launch widget?  Works for me.  :)
[23:06] <dmatt> TSK: i did it easy in past, but I forgot how and couldn't find easy way now
[23:06] <dmatt> TSK: I cannot drag to other panel, once it touches desktop, it just plainly refuses to go to other panel
[23:07] <artao> well. that's working now at least.
[23:07] <artao> leave well enuf alone.
[23:07] <TSK> artao: Don't feel bad about the urge to reboot.  I did a metric TONNE of Windows habits for months while getting comfortable with Linux.  I remember formatting and reinstalling a few dozen times before I really felt comfortable just fixing things the "right way".  ;)
[23:07] <artao> up the gamma so both screens are too brite, then use the monitor adjustments to bring it back down I guess ... ... and just tweak monitor 2's color temp settings (bad ) until it matches monitor 1
[23:08] <TSK> Funny thing is, now I fix WINDOWS machines for friends by booting up my Live Kubuntu or other Linux CD/DVD/USB and working in an environment I feel comfortable in.  :)
[23:09]  * TSK has been on Linux now for a decade and prefers his tweaked to perfection desktop to all other working environments.  :)
[23:11] <TSK> artao: I did find this page http://coderazzi.net/howto/kubuntu/gamma.html which may be of some help in your case perhaps?
[23:14] <artao> well. there we go..... don't think i'm gonna get much better than this without creating a monitor profile .. which i can't do right now
[23:15] <artao> close enuf for hand grenades i spose
[23:16] <artao> altho i'm getting nasty pincushioning on monitor 2 now
[23:16] <artao> hmm
[23:16] <TSK> artao: Every time I've come across an issue like this that requires extended research and experimenting I thank my lucky stars that I only ever have to fix this kinda thing ONCE and then add it to my git repository of custom config files so it STAYS fixed.  ;)
[23:17] <artao> ... until you rebuild, and by then have COMPLETELY forgotten how you did "it" in the first place LOL
[23:21] <TSK> artao: That's why I commit the custom config file to a source control repository on my netbook.  When/if I ever rebuild (which I have not yet had to do in ages now) I will simply dump all my custom configs back into /etc and be done with it.  :)
[23:22] <artao> i guess i'm just happy to finally have my dual-monitors back ... had to bufy a DVI>VGA converter ... kept neglecting to do so, for like 3 months now LOL
[23:22]  * artao smacks himself
[23:22] <TSK> I also make bookmarks and scrapbook (a super-useful Firefox extension) captures of webpages that are TOO useful.  :)
[23:22] <artao> me too
[23:24] <TSK> artao: Maybe useful information here -> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/dual-head-twin-view-separate-x-window-things-you-can-do-with-multi-displays-606592/ too
[23:24] <TSK> (I'm still researching this for ya.)  ;)
[23:24] <artao> kul thnx
[23:24] <artao> you can stop now tho =]
[23:25] <artao> i'm done with this for the day. bewfore i getz a headache -[
[23:25] <artao> =] rather
[23:25] <TSK> artao: Hehehe...  Just bookmark 'em for later.  Ye'll get bored and wanna dink around with it another day I assure you.  ;)
[23:26] <artao> indeed. apparently i need to peruse NVidia's forums as well
[23:27] <TSK> artao: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/NVidia/Twin_View and http://www.wsanders.net/index.php?entry=entry120415-115150 and http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/MultiMonitorDesktop and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaMultiMonitors may also be entertaining reading on a particularly bored day.  ;)
[23:28] <artao> whoa
[23:28] <artao> =S
[23:28] <TSK> artao: That ought to be enough links to lead you to a solution sooner or later.  ;)
[23:28] <TSK> artao: Now that you've got me wondering about it tho I'ma prolly play with it myself this coming weekend, too.  :)
[23:29] <artao> fair nuf
[23:29] <TSK> Right now I only use the second (bigger) screen for XBMC and gaming, but it'd be nice to use it sometimes for Blender 'n stuff like that, too.
[23:31] <artao> yeah. i like having blender on my primary screen and Krita (or GIMP , but only if absolutely neccessary these days) on the 2nd screen
[23:31] <artao> and/or file browsers and/or text or CLI on the 2nd screen
[23:32] <artao> display 1 is full screen apps, display 2 is all other windows
[23:32] <artao> =]
[23:32] <artao> or, having blender workspace on display 1, and render view on display 2
[23:32] <artao> thus they need to be as close in color as possible
[23:35] <TSK> artao: Oooo, nice idea
[23:35] <TSK> I think I'ma put my render display on the big screen where it'd look utterly sweet.  :)
[23:35] <artao> =]
[23:36] <artao> s'why blender made it so it can have multiple windows at once. split out any display frame to a new window.
[23:36] <artao> it's also nice to have full-screen animation display while editing curves etc
[23:36] <artao> or the full-screen video on one display while you do the video editing and/or compositing on the other screen
[23:36] <artao> so many uses
[23:37] <TSK> I'm so happy that the new Blender interface kept all that was GOOD about earlier versions of Blender and only improved things that NEEDED improved.  :)
[23:37] <artao> full-screen paint on primary monitor, UV editor on secondary
[23:37] <artao> well .. almost all that was good .... we've lost the horizontal button-bar
[23:38] <artao> also lost the in-display preview render for Blender Internal
[23:38] <TSK> Well, I guess I'm mainly happy they didn't break the mostly keyboard driven workflow.  :)
[23:38] <artao> ya
[23:38] <artao> plenty of changes tho from 2.4x
[23:38] <TSK> I can get stuff done SO fast in Blender with one hand of the mouse and one on the keyboard.  :)
[23:38] <artao> BUT .. full keyboard editing now, so it's moot
[23:39] <artao> yep. the way it's designed to be used =]
[23:39] <TSK> Yar.  Amazing to me that so many folk coming to Blender from other programs have such a problem with it.
[23:39] <artao> meh
[23:39] <artao> i understand it
[23:40] <TSK> I came to Blender from Lightwave and Imagine (on Commodore Amiga) and it really seemed pretty simple once I got used to it.
[23:40] <artao> it's geneally n00bs who've only ever used that one 3D application, and expect all others will work the same
[23:40] <artao> people who've used numerous 3D apps generally have an easier transition
[23:40] <TSK> The REAL problem for ME wasn't the interface.  It was getting over the fact that there was only about a BILLION different neat things I could do with Blender.  SOOOOoooo powerful.  :)
[23:41] <artao> i came to blender from Lightwave, MAX 2.5, POVRay, TrueSpace, Maya
[23:41] <TSK> Blender is a bit overwhelming at first until you learn to ignore what you don't need right now until you DO need it.  :)
[23:41] <artao> i used Calligari on Amiga way back in like '91 or so
[23:41] <artao> =]
[23:41] <TSK> POVRay...  Hehehe...  I remember when that was new and folk were raving about how utterly AMAZING it was.  ;)
[23:41] <TSK> Calligari was awesome, too actually
[23:41] <artao> it still is pretty amazing
[23:42] <artao> TrueSpace is the direct descendent of Calligari ... the company is called Calligari =]
[23:42] <TSK> What's REALLY amazing is the fact that the average home user has power available to them now that rivals that of full movie/television studios, and much of it entirely cost-free or dirt-cheap.  :)
[23:43] <TSK> Yay, Linux!  \o/
[23:43] <artao> *POVRay is still amazing that is ... very good caustics .. slow as all getout tho
[23:43] <TSK> Well...  Yay, open source, that is...  ;)
[23:43] <artao> indeed! Hear Hear!
[23:43]  * artao toasts to FOSS
[23:44] <TSK> Caustics (and any SERIOUS raytracing calculations) WILL tend to be slow really.
[23:44] <TSK> CUDA has helped a lot with some of that tho.
[23:44] <artao> i JUST learned this today >> What's a billion? Well, apparently that depends if your American or European. -- In America, 10^9 is a billion. In Europe, 10^12 is a billion. So what, then, do they call 10^9?? A milliard.
[23:44] <TSK> artao: Aye.  I was so shocked to discover that.  :)
[23:45] <artao> insanity
[23:45] <TSK> Had no idea, but I guess it shouldn't come as such a surprise.  Americans just GOTTA be different at ALL costs.  :)
[23:45] <artao> well, TBF the american way makes more sense
[23:46] <artao> :P
[23:46] <TSK> Heck, we still use the "imperial" measurements rather than the metric system (which makes FAR more sense).
[23:46] <artao> i mean .. million, milliard, billion, billiard .. etc .. C'MON!!!
[23:46] <artao> i try to use metric
[23:46] <TSK> Inches, feet, miles?
[23:46] <TSK> Hehehe
[23:46] <artao> operative word "try"
[23:47] <TSK> I have long since preferred metric ever since my early grade school science and math teachers taught it to us.  It's just so much more logical.
[23:47] <TSK> It's all tens.  Doesn't get much easier.  :)
[23:48] <artao> and it's based on physical reality. not some king's foot.
[23:49] <artao> arbitrary
[23:50] <artao> and how can the world agreee on ANYTHING if we can't even agree what to call our "big numbers" ... insanity
[23:50] <TSK> Yar.  Or the king's arms or fingers, or whatever.
[23:50] <artao> billion dollars .. big difference between 10^9 and 10^12 there
[23:50] <TSK> artao: Oh, aye.  Especially when our nation's DEBT it measured in those big numbers.
[23:51] <artao> exactly
[23:51] <artao> world population
[23:51] <TSK> Millions, billions, trillions... If we all figure the names of the numbers differently then how much money DO we really owe?  How many people really ARE on the planet?  Etc...  :)
[23:51] <artao> the number of stars in the sky
[23:51] <artao> don't ask me, i don't know =S
[23:51] <TSK> artao: That one's easy...  It's "billions and billions".
[23:51] <TSK> Ask Carl Sagan...  ;)
[23:52] <artao> lol
[23:52] <artao> well, i'm out for awhile
[23:52] <TSK> Have a good one.  :)
[23:52]  * TSK waves bye.  :)
[23:52] <artao> need to see if i can find anyone with some tasty green nuggetz
[23:52] <artao> =]
[23:52] <TSK> :P
[23:54] <artaOUT> and thanks again for your help TSK ! =D
[23:54] <artaOUT> l8r