[02:38] <gooslap> Hi, is anyone online?
[07:19] <Sysi> ssds work and should keep working for years even without any tweaking, it's world of choices you have problems with :)
[07:54] <xnox> bug 1059083 not sure if this is lightdm problem or xubuntu specific.
[07:54] <xnox> are you using lightdm?!
[07:54]  * xnox is out of touch
[07:54] <ochosi> yup, we are
[07:54] <xnox> lightdm it is.
[07:55] <ochosi> suprising that this doesn't work, shouldn't it simply do the same thing in ubuntu and xubuntu?
[07:55] <astraljava> I suppose we had some settings for that, maybe something broke.
[07:56] <Sysi> I think that worked for me..
[07:56] <xnox> considering that my lightdm login is "funny" with massive spinning circles, I would not be surprised if it was lightdm regression.... or change of api..... or something like that.
[07:57] <ochosi> xnox: does this affect ubuntu as well?
[07:57] <Sysi> I used amd64
[07:57] <xnox> ochosi: no clue. Haven't tested yet. Just going through my bug mail.
[12:03] <knome> g'day
[12:04] <elfy> hi knome 
[12:04] <knome> hello elfy
[12:04]  * elfy needs to get his around this qa thing - got somewhere simple for him to start?
[12:05] <knome> astraljava is quite a simple person...
[12:05] <elfy> :)
[12:05] <knome> what is it what you are specifically wondering about?
[12:05] <elfy> that'll be 2 of us then 
[12:05] <elfy> what it is I'm supposed to be doing :D
[12:06] <knome> heh, ok so:
[12:06] <knome> first of all, make sure you announce mailing lists when we have milestone releases coming up
[12:07] <elfy> yep
[12:07] <knome> the second one is to attend the weekly QA meeting
[12:07] <knome> i got to say i have no idea what time that is...
[12:07] <knome> but astraljava will tell you
[12:07] <elfy> ok - I can find out - I talk to balloons anyway 
[12:08] <knome> looks like it's wednesdays 14UTC
[12:08] <knome> and if there's something specific to report, report it back to us
[12:08] <elfy> right - not too onerous then :)
[12:09] <knome> no, not really
[12:09] <knome> then there's this one thing
[12:09] <knome> that we still need to get fixed
[12:09] <knome> the weekly reports to the release team
[12:10] <knome> i'm ok to do that, but that implies that people should really update the team reports
[12:10] <elfy> ok
[12:10] <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001846.html
[12:10] <knome> that's our last weekly mail, sent in august :P
[12:11] <knome> but those are the things that we need to report
[12:11] <knome> if you have ideas how we can make this reporting more effective..
[12:12] <elfy> I'll have a think knome - so at present - people tell you and then you report to release team?
[12:13]  * smartboyhw finds that the "not-sending-the-release-mail" isn
[12:13] <knome> elfy, well, no...
[12:13] <smartboyhw> that serious for Xubuntu, Ubuntu Studio's problem is bigger:P
[12:13] <knome> elfy, people doesn't tell me, and when we've sent the mail, the person who sent it finds out what has been done himself
[12:13] <knome> elfy, astraljava has been sending those mails mostly
[12:13] <elfy> ok
[12:14] <knome> elfy, our last "team report", which would be *really useful* for this, is from 2011
[12:14] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/
[12:14] <smartboyhw> knome: Wow that is long
[12:15]  * smartboyhw thinks the last "team report" for Studio is about 4 years ago:P
[12:15] <elfy> knome: ok - I'll have a think about that then
[12:16] <knome> elfy, i was thinking if something @IRC would work...
[12:17] <elfy> yep probably - so the kind of thing that needs reporting is stuff that gets mentioned in meetings and from bugs etc
[12:18] <elfy> I'll talk to astraljava 
[12:18] <smartboyhw> elfy, this might be useful
[12:18] <smartboyhw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda/TeamTemplate
[12:18] <elfy> ty
[12:19] <knome> yep, that's the template
[12:19] <knome> elfy, anyway, don't geel *obliged* to do it if you don't want to :)
[12:20] <smartboyhw> elfy, you are luckier than me that knome got the testcases rewritten before you become QA contact, I have to do the tiring job:P
[12:20] <elfy> oh - I'm happy to do it knome - I'd not have said I would if I didn't want to :)
[12:20] <knome> elfy, ok, thanks :)
[12:21] <elfy> welcome :)
[12:22] <smartboyhw> :)
[12:22] <elfy> knome: got my new machine - didn't need to worry about uefi etc - just moved the drives, turned it on and carried on as normal
[12:22] <knome> hihi, good
[12:22] <knome> laptop/desktop?
[12:23]  * smartboyhw thinks UEFI is a bunch of **** developed by Microsoft who clearly does not know what is F/OSS
[12:23] <elfy> desktop - hate laptops - always end up with cramp from the touchpad things lol
[12:23] <elfy> was a barebones thing - no drives no OS
[12:23]  * smartboyhw is using a laptop to do EVERYTHING including testing:P
[12:23] <knome> they have their pros and cons
[12:24] <elfy> yep 
[13:22] <astraljava> What does elfy need to talk to me about?
[13:22] <smartboyhw> astraljava, how to be a QA contact person:P
[13:23] <knome> astraljava, qa meetings, probably sending mails to release team
[13:23] <astraljava> knome: Aren't you sending those emails?
[13:24]  * smartboyhw now sends mails to release team after getting scott's permission:P
[13:25] <astraljava> But that's over on Studio's side.
[13:25] <knome> astraljava, well, i should be sending, but seriously talking, we should get stuff in order before anybody can send those reliably
[13:25] <knome> astraljava, i'm talking about team reporting
[13:26] <astraljava> Hmm... yet another email template, then?
[13:26] <knome> no, not anything like that
[13:26] <knome> internal reporting
[13:26] <knome> the one who sends the mail to release team should know what people have been up to
[13:27] <knome> and shouldn't really do the detective work
[13:28] <astraljava> Err... well, have fun trying to keep all that in mind.
[13:28] <astraljava> They expect to have a list of bugs being worked on, for instance. Can you keep those numbers all in your head?
[13:28] <knome> well exactly.
[13:28] <knome> no, i can't
[13:28] <astraljava> There you go then. :)
[13:29] <astraljava> That's why my inbox exploded, cause I wanted to keep all bug mail during the week, until report was sent.
[13:29] <knome> there should be a better way to track those bugs and items
[13:30] <astraljava> Also, [release]-changes ML was damn easy to pick the changed packages from, too.
[13:30] <knome> hmm?
[13:30] <astraljava> If you come up with any, by all means.
[13:30] <knome> i'm thinking the reporting could be tied to the work items tracking
[13:30] <knome> because we need to do that anyway, and i can see how we benefit from that
[13:31] <knome> if a work item is INPROGRESS, the team works on it, aight?
[13:31] <astraljava> Not all bugs directly relate to a work item on blueprints.
[13:31] <knome> that's true, but they should all be linked to the blueprints
[13:32] <knome> and if their status isn't fix committed/fix released, they are still worked on, unless they are new/triaged or so, when they're still... new
[13:32] <astraljava> I'm not at all sure you'd want to include all bugs to blueprints.
[13:32] <astraljava> I know I wouldn't.
[13:32] <astraljava> But you're... strange.
[13:32] <knome> why wouldn't you link all bugs you are workig on that contribute towards a blueprint?
[13:32] <knome> +n
[13:33] <astraljava> Well I suppose then you'd have an obligatory "Improve QA" blueprint for every release.
[13:34] <knome> not a problem: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-bugs
[13:34] <astraljava> Ok. Somebody has to update that blueprint throughout the release, then, to make sure that every new bug gets added.
[13:34] <astraljava> Volunteers?
[13:34] <astraljava> Oh, I know.
[13:34] <astraljava> ELFY!
[13:34] <knome> i mean, creating and maintaining one more blueprint isn't too bad, if that means we'll get the team reports done
[13:34] <knome> :P
[13:34] <knome> no, i don't mean *any new bug in xubuntu*
[13:35] <knome> because we don't need to track bugs we aren't working on
[13:35] <astraljava> Those are the bugs I meant when I said I wouldn't want all bugs into blueprints.
[13:35] <knome> if somebody starts looking at a bug, or is working on it, link it then
[13:35] <astraljava> Oh.
[13:35] <astraljava> Fine.
[13:35] <knome> oh. yeah, i don't want them in blueprints too
[13:35] <knome> s/too/either/
[13:36] <astraljava> Ok. You know how Lionel will feel about this change in the process, right? :)
[13:36] <knome> since we only need to report those we are working on, it's not too hard to track them under blueprints
[13:36] <knome> yes, i know, but i've been managing the blueprints anyway
[13:36] <knome> and i don't think it's a huge burden
[13:37] <knome> if you have time to look at the bug, or work with it, maybe you will have time to link it, or tell somebody to do that
[13:37] <astraljava> When you're battling 140+ bugs a release...
[13:37] <knome> we haven't been reporting those bugs to the release team before
[13:37] <knome> and i'm not sure what the policy should be on what is reported
[13:37] <astraljava> I did, for a brief period of time, anyway. :)
[13:38] <knome> yeah, thanks for that
[13:38] <knome> but the list per mail wasn't >10
[13:38] <knome> maybe i/we should talk with skaet
[13:38] <astraljava> But I think I was pretty much alone in that. Don't think many teams shared that hobby with me.
[13:38] <smartboyhw> Hey elgy astraljava is here
[13:39] <knome> "why do we have to report these, since you can simply look at our work items tracker"
[13:39] <smartboyhw> *oops hey elfy
[13:39] <knome> if a bug isn't worth mentioning in a blueprint, why would it be worth mentioning in the mail to release team?
[13:39] <knome> i mean, i can't see these *not* walking hand in hand
[13:39] <astraljava> Oh it would totally eliminate the need to do that, if they _were_ actually tracked somewhere.
[13:40] <astraljava> Currently _this was_ the tracking process.
[13:40] <astraljava> ...or _is_, rather.
[13:40] <astraljava> But then we're not really categorizing our bugs, either.
[13:41] <astraljava> I'm pretty sure the release team is actually interested about release blocker bugs anyway.
[13:41] <knome> +only
[13:41]  * smartboyhw is sucking in all those contents:P
[13:41] <astraljava> But since our work flow was lacking in this department (too?), it was clearer for me to report them all.
[13:41] <knome> but, don't you agree that these two procedures are just duplicating each other?
[13:42] <astraljava> Yea, I just said so a few lines above. :)
[13:42] <knome> yep, so that one is sorted out
[13:42] <astraljava> ACK
[13:42] <knome> meh, "what was done engineering wise"
[13:42] <smartboyhw> :P
[13:42] <knome> i think that's the worst question ever
[13:42] <smartboyhw> knome: +1
[13:42] <knome> what does that "engineering" mean really?
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Dunno. Maybe some new features?
[13:43]  * smartboyhw suggests going to #ubuntu-release to ask that question:P
[13:43] <smartboyhw> Oops;P
[13:45] <astraljava> knome: That was easy, pick up the new uploaded packages from -changes.
[13:45] <astraljava> No one ever complained about that method.
[13:45] <astraljava> It's actually stuff that matters, too. Versioning of packages in the archives.
[13:46] <astraljava> Not so much of Xubuntu's packages, of course, as not many (anyone?) depend on them.
[13:46] <astraljava> But still, from the release-team-POV, it's useful information.
[13:47] <astraljava> And for us, it's usually a no-brainer. Just pick the ones where uploader is either Lionel or Micah. :)
[13:47] <smartboyhw> lol
[13:47] <astraljava> Of course Micah uploads other packages when acting as a PP.
[13:48] <astraljava> But you get the idea.
[13:52] <knome> yeah.
[13:53] <knome> so, there's the "what did you do?" and "what bugs did you work on?" which are sorted
[13:53] <knome> now, what's about to land blah is trivial too, once you have those done
[13:53] <knome> and the dependencies/blocking/concerns too
[13:53] <astraljava> Yep, most often that was a "N/A" for us.
[13:53]  * elfy wonders if this conversation is about what I was being told earlier
[13:54] <knome> elfy, yeah, we're talking about the mails to the release team
[13:54] <elfy> if it is - I missed the beginning :p
[13:54] <smartboyhw> elfy: Yes:P
[13:54] <knome> elfy, i'll paste you
[13:54] <elfy> thanks knome 
[13:55] <knome> elfy, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1253911/
[13:58] <elfy> ta
[13:59] <knome> np
[17:19] <philballew> Anyone wanna run a xubuntu session in open week in a little less then a month?
[21:04] <ailo_> I'm having a bit of problem with editing the menu. Added a submenu, more or less like here http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu#create_sub-menus. And looking at other edits, I can't see what's different with mine. The problem I'm having..
[21:05] <ailo_> The submenu is named after its parent, instead of <Name>Myname</Name>
[21:06] <ailo_> To clarify, the submenu is displaying its parents name in the actual menu, while in the file, I'm using a custom name with <Name>Myname</Name>
[21:06] <ailo_> If I use <Layout>.., and inside it <Menuname>, using the custom menu name, I still see the parents name displayed 
[21:20] <ailo_> Well, I've realized the <Directory> needs to exist somewhere