/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/04/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|afk
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=== ubuntu-marathon is now known as smartboyhw
=== mmrazik|afk is now known as mmrazik
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Riddellpleia2: community council?17:00
czajkowskiRiddell: jst coming17:00
DarkwingHey czajkowski, Riddell17:00
JontheEchidnao/17:00
czajkowskidholbach: Gwaihir ping meeting time17:00
czajkowskiDarkwing: hey ducky!17:00
* Darkwing meekly waves17:01
dholbach:-)17:01
czajkowski#startmeeting17:02
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Oct  4 17:02:21 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:02
czajkowskialoha and welcome to the CC meeting17:02
* pleia2 waves17:02
czajkowskijust waiting on some CC folks to join and we shall continue shortly17:02
czajkowski#topic Kubuntu Council Catch up17:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kubuntu Council Catch up
czajkowskiso who's here from the CC ?17:03
beunoo/17:03
dholbachI am, sort of17:03
pleia2:)17:03
dholbachstill busy with the Ubuntu 24h crazyness marathon17:04
czajkowskiok then17:04
czajkowskiso Kubuntu council, thanks for coming along, how are things going with you guys these days ?17:04
Riddellwell mixed17:04
Riddellyou'll know that canonical dropped us as a supported flavour earlier this year17:04
* pleia2 nods17:05
Riddellthe announcement for that was handled really badly by canonical17:05
pleia2yeah, it was very confusing for a lot of people17:05
Riddellthe only communication to the kubuntu community was an e-mail which would be great for any politician, managed to say nothing about what was happening17:06
JontheEchidna(I suppose those of us here from KC should also wave)17:06
Riddelland they changed the message about support for 12.04 which I had to read about in someone blog comments17:06
pleia2:\17:06
Riddellso that was pretty disappointing treatment of the community17:06
beunoright17:07
DarkwingI'm still recieving some wonderful comments based on that.17:07
czajkowskinods was this brought up in the last meeting I think ?17:07
beunoRiddell, and you feel that hasn't been "fixed">17:07
czajkowskithis is the 2nd time we've meet wtih kubuntu council.17:07
beunos/>/?17:07
JontheEchidnaI'm not sure what could be done to "fix" it. It may be "water under the bridge" at this point.17:07
JontheEchidnait's hard to re-do a press announcement ;-)17:08
beunoindeed17:08
beunoso what do things look like moving forward?17:08
Riddellnow we have a company who wants to sponsor us by providing a the support service canonical dropped17:08
Riddelland I get e-mails from people asking for just this17:08
Riddellbut they've been in discussions with canonical since april and it still hasn't happened17:09
Riddellso that feels really frustrating17:09
DarkwingFrom the community standpoint, people are asking if Canonical is stalling because they still "own" kubuntu17:09
JontheEchidnawhen you say "it still hasn't happened", you are referring to discussions between the company wanting to provide support, and canonical?17:09
DarkwingThat's the reaction I have recieved.17:09
beunoyeah, of course17:09
beunonothing moving forward, no communication17:10
Riddellif canonical don't want to support kubuntu I get that (they have to make money) but now they're stopping the community from being able to do useful things17:10
beunodoesn't benefit anyone17:10
JontheEchidnae.g. canonical saying, "yes, you can provide support for kubuntu"?17:10
RiddellJontheEchidna: right, it's their agreement is moving forward but at a snails pace17:10
czajkowskiRiddell: who have you been dealing with in Canonical?17:10
RiddellI'm told there's only 1 issue left to go17:10
czajkowskiI think we the CC can chase up on this if needed.17:10
beunoRiddell, JontheEchidna, Darkwing, we'll chase this up17:10
beunoright17:10
beuno:)17:10
Riddellczajkowski: amanda and steve george17:10
beunok, we'll get on the case and let you guys know17:11
beunothis seems the worst of all situations17:11
DarkwingThis conversation started at last UDS. IMO, this is killing our community of support.17:11
Riddellactually it started before then, UDS was when we finally got a meeting17:12
beunoof course, uncertainty is terrible for businesses17:12
DarkwingNot to mention the trust of the community of Ubuntu/Canonical (They are being lumped into one at this point17:12
Darkwing)17:12
czajkowskiDarkwing: I can understand that, it might have been an idea to have pinged the CC in the mean time if there was a delay17:13
DarkwingOf course, I've been out of the daily loop the last 3 months.17:13
czajkowskiwe dont have any control over the Canonical communications but could have chased up on things before now17:13
pleia2yeah, always feel free to come to us :)17:13
pleia2I'm glad we have these catchup meetings though, good to catch stuff like this17:13
Riddellthere's no deliberate attempt to restrict kubuntu there, but we're so low down on the priority list it just doesn't get done17:14
Riddellanother issue is getting sysadmin to update the website17:14
pleia2yeah, I saw that ticket from August the other day17:14
Darkwing:)17:14
pleia2have you followed up with them on IRC?17:14
RiddellI don't know who to ping any more17:14
dholbachthe people in #canonical-sysadmin should be able to help17:15
pleia2in #canonical-sysadmin they always have a "vanguard" in the topic17:15
dholbachon freenode17:15
czajkowskiRiddell: like all RTs #canonical-sysadmin in freenode17:15
RiddellI'd rather just move off canonical's web servers but I know that'll end up in another months long issue of getting it approved17:15
pleia2they'll be the active one at the time (best to ask during weekdays)17:15
RiddellI guess I'll try that17:16
czajkowskiRiddell: do you have an RT number ?17:16
Riddellhttps://rt.ubuntu.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=2029617:16
czajkowskithere is a vanguard on there all days at least and even some weekends17:16
beunoRiddell, how about filing an RT to move the domain off of canonical?  it will at least be a food place to document and discuss17:16
Riddellbeuno: one thing at a time!  I don't want to distract them!17:17
beunoheh17:17
pleia2:)17:17
beunosmart man17:17
czajkowskidoes ayone else from the council have any other comments17:17
czajkowskiI've just pinged somone in the IS channel to follow up on the RT17:18
pleia2the quetzal+kubuntu logo from that beta post is so great17:18
Riddellfor the coming UDS I don't know what track to put specs into or who will accept the specs for UDS17:18
Riddellczajkowski: you mean someone other than me moaning :)17:18
czajkowskiRiddell: no I just mean someone elses view as well17:19
czajkowskiif they want17:19
czajkowskiit's an open meeting17:19
DarkwingJust from my observations in the Kubuntu community17:19
DarkwingThis is still teh biggest issue17:19
* pleia2 nods17:19
DarkwingBecause our hands are completly tied.17:19
beunoyeah, I'm really sorry to hear we're still in this situation17:19
DarkwingCanonical severed the buisness situation and then we are not allowed to fix it yet.17:20
sabdflhi folks17:20
DarkwingHey Mark17:20
czajkowski18:19 < deej> czajkowski: I'll give the score a bump on it17:21
czajkowski18:19 < deej> It's not a big deal but it's not a five minute thing either17:21
czajkowski18:19 < czajkowski> deej: can you give me an ETA rougly please :)17:21
shadeslayerhi :)17:21
czajkowski18:20 < deej> czajkowski: Is it urgent enough that it should take precedence over release stuff?17:21
czajkowski18:20 < czajkowski> not over release stuff no17:21
czajkowski18:20 < czajkowski> but is high as it's reported a few months ago17:21
czajkowski18:20 < deej> Okay, so I'll score it so it should happen pretty much immediately post-release17:21
czajkowskiso the RT ticket will be looked into17:21
czajkowskiand again if there are other RTs that need to be followed up on please jsut ask17:21
DarkwingSo, August RT is not going to be looked at for another month?17:21
pleia2release is in 2 weeks :)17:21
Riddellthat means we'll have out of date content on the website for the release17:21
DarkwingRiddell: +117:22
beunoas for UDS17:22
czajkowskiwell we;re in a better place than we were 10 mins ago17:22
Riddellyep, thanks17:23
beunoRiddell, wouldn't you follow the same process as x/lubuntu?17:23
Riddellbeuno: I don't know what that is17:23
beunodholbach, you look like a persona who does know!17:23
beunoor maybe jono is around?17:24
jonohey17:24
dholbachbeuno, we're in a hangout on air17:24
beuno\o/17:24
dholbachbeuno, which xubuntu/lubuntu process were you referring to?17:24
beuno17:18 < Riddell> for the coming UDS I don't know what track to put specs into or who will accept the specs for UDS17:25
jonowhat can I help with?17:25
beunodholbach, ^17:25
Darkwingjcastro... just ask Jorge :D17:25
jonoRiddell, just put them on the logical tracks (E.g. Desktop for KDE related topics, Foundations for lower level bits, Community for governance)17:25
jonoand ask the track leads to ensure they get scheduled17:25
dholbachbeuno, ah sorry - I must have missed that bit - if you choose Desktop, it might help to have a chat with Jason Warner before and if you choose 'other' I think it was Kate in the past17:25
jonothere will be no Other track this time17:26
jonowe removed it17:26
dholbachah ok17:26
jonowe might need to update the website17:26
dholbachI'll make a note17:27
RiddellI think I'm out of moans :)17:28
Riddelloh I forsee issues if ubuntu gets rid of alpha and beta milestones but that's a technical issue rather than community17:29
pleia2yeah17:29
xnoxRiddell: release management was under "other" track last time... wasn't it?!17:30
Riddellxnox: yes, dunno what track that'll be this time17:30
xnoxRiddell: plus there will be feedback from R session where I think that will come up =)17:30
Riddellczajkowski: any other questions?17:33
czajkowskiRiddell: can you please let the CC know the exact outstanding issue that you are wating to hear back on, either here or via email please so we can follow up on this17:33
dholbachhow is the actual work on Kubuntu coming on? do you have new contributors helping out?17:34
Riddellwe seem to have a good number of contributors, not sure we're doing as good at recruitment as we have done17:35
dholbachI saw a couple of folks who might be ready for upload rights :)17:35
dholbachI'll reach out to them again - maybe they'll need encouragement from others as well :)17:36
Riddellyeah that would be good17:36
dholbachI'll let you know how it goes :)17:36
Riddellczajkowski: ok I'll send an e-mail17:37
czajkowskiRiddell: thank you17:38
dholbachapart from recruitment - do you think the kubuntu community is working out fine generally? just in terms of getting things done?17:39
Riddelldholbach: for distro development yes I think so17:40
dholbachok great17:41
dholbachthat's good to know17:41
* JontheEchidna agrees17:42
* shadeslayer agree as well :)17:42
shadeslayerwhile we could always do with more people, we're managing well17:42
czajkowskiany other comments folks ?17:43
beunonone from me17:44
dholbachno, I think I'm all set as well17:44
JontheEchidnaall set here17:44
pleia2thanks for joining us :)17:45
Riddellthanks for inviting us17:45
czajkowskithanks folks for coming along17:45
czajkowski#endmeeting17:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Oct  4 17:45:29 2012 UTC.17:45
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-17.02.moin.txt17:45
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-17.02.html17:45
pleia2no CoC review?17:45
czajkowskioh wwoops17:46
czajkowskisorry no there were no mails sent at all17:46
* IdleOne reviewed it. Looks good.17:46
pleia2we only got one applicable comment on the fridge post, "make it easier to sign" :) http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2012/09/27/code-of-conduct-v2-request-for-feedback/17:46
dholbachthanks a lot everyone17:46
pleia2does anyone else have any feedback on the latest revision of the CoC?17:47
IdleOnemake it easily translatable17:47
pleia2*the text of*17:47
pleia2;)17:47
czajkowskiwell the make it easier to sign there is a bug on it but we were witing till version 2 to come out to follow up on that17:47
pleia2(the technical problems like translations and making it easier to sign won't really be addressed until the LP folks work down their queue of more pressing bugs)17:48
IdleOnenope, the wording is good.17:48
pleia2shall we have a session at UDS that is CC + CoC?17:48
pleia2then maybe do formal CoC release after UDS17:49
czajkowskiI have to head17:49
pleia2hm?17:49
IdleOnehead out*17:50
IdleOneI think :/17:50
pleia2darn, I was hoping she was volunteering to lead that session :)17:50
IdleOnelol17:50
pleia2I think everyone left, oops17:50
IdleOnebtw thank for that email this morning :)17:51
pleia2anyone able to chair next time?17:51
pleia2I guess I can do the wiki stuff, since I won't be able to get to the next meeting17:51
pleia2the plan is to meet with the tech board next time, so if someone who will be at the meeting can contact them it'd be great17:51
sabdflpleia2, when are you off?17:52
Gwaihirpleia2, can do that, setting a reminder for tomorrow17:52
pleia2sabdfl: I fly out on the 10th :)17:52
sabdflgreat part of the world17:53
pleia2yeah, I'm excited17:53
* pleia2 will take many pictures!17:53
cielakalright, I guess we're ready to go18:00
cielakanyone here for Ubuntu Accomplishments meeting?18:01
mfischhola everyone18:01
cielakhey mfisch18:01
cielakokay, I guess it's just us two here18:01
cielakmfisch: do you think we should go on with this meeting, or postpone it for when more will be able to attend?18:02
mfischok18:02
mfischcielak: I'd love to discuss some prelim goals for 0.418:02
cielakalright, so do I18:02
cielak#startmeeting18:02
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Oct  4 18:02:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is cielak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:02
cielakso since we've released 0.3 about a week ago we hadn't done much18:03
mfischnope18:03
cielakthere was some interesting feedback from users though18:03
cielakMartin Owens has published a cool blog post where he expresses his concerns about default accoms collection18:04
cielakand I guess we should indeed open up for a wider discussion concerning how can we improve the structure of these default accom collections18:05
cielakmaybe that's a thing for UDS actually18:05
mfischI'd love to see that in a mock-up18:05
mfischactually maybe it would be more useful just to layout what stuff we want to cover at UDS here?18:05
cielakmfisch: you coming to UDS?18:06
mfischyes18:06
cielakawesome18:06
mfischI will be busy and possibly leading some sessions, but I should be able to sneak out when I can18:06
cielakwe'll make sure you can help with accomplishment discussions18:06
cielakone of things that currently bother me is whether we aim for 0.4 or 1.0 now, as Jono refers to it18:07
mfischwhat are your thoughts?18:07
cielakif we release 1.0 we'll guarantee that we will support that version from then on18:08
cielakso that milestone would express a level of maturity of the whole system18:08
cielakif we go for another 0. release, then we're open for wider changes18:08
mfischmost of the changes I'd like to see are in the viewer, but I haven't thought about them enough to figure if they'd need major API changes18:09
cielakas far as I know they won't need much18:09
mfischat UDS, i'd like to see if we can get anyone interested in being a core developer on the viewer18:10
cielakwhat we totally need to do is to finally implement the 'showcase' design18:10
cielak+118:10
mfischsince neither of us is skilled/interested18:10
cielakI guess both me and Jono are actually interested18:10
cielakwhat we're lacking is a high level of expertise in GTK18:10
cielakwhich stops us from making things as we wish them to be18:11
mfischI'm happy to help, but learning GTK is not anywhere near the top of my priority list18:11
cielakand to be honest, last 2 release cycles we didn't pay as much attention to the viewer as we did to the daemon18:11
mfischfor sure18:11
mfischfor example in unit tests or pep818:11
cielakso since the daemon is pretty much stable now, we will be able to concentrate on improving the viewer18:12
cielakexactly18:12
cielakviewer will also need a major code reorganisation18:12
cielakwe'll also need to work on the design18:12
mfischyes18:12
cielakactually, one of the ideas that came to my mind recently18:13
mfischwith some many accomps, it is very cluttered18:13
cielakwas to increase the use of webkit in the daemon, thus reducing the GTK influence to dialog windows and toolbar18:13
cielakI guess we might implement beutiful showcase using javascript18:13
mfischyes18:14
mfischsome of that may depend on who can help18:14
cielakthat would release us from all these spacing bugs, GtkIconView limitations, and it would improve performance heavily18:14
cielaktrue18:14
mfischperhaps one of our sessions should be brainstorming viewer ideas18:14
cielakso basically we may want to look either for GTK experts, or someone experienced with javascript etc18:14
cielakyeah, I do believe there is a bunch of people who have cool ideas but never have notified us about them18:15
mfischso jono wont be at UDS18:16
mfischI know mhall119 is leading a session18:16
cielakif we go for heavier use of webkit, we're gonna need some CSS magic too, but that technology is more commonly known18:16
cielakwhat about?18:17
mfischthe online stuff and server infrastructure I think18:17
cielakthat's cool18:18
mfischcielak: do we have any blueprints?18:19
cielaknone that I know of18:19
mfischSo it sounds like we need to discuss later this week or next setting up some Blueprints18:20
mfischI can help but can't be the main driver as I have other ones to make18:20
cielaksure18:20
cielakand since jono can't attend, I may end up leading some18:20
mfischok18:20
mfischsounds like one for sure is viewer focused: fixes, technologies, and features18:21
cielakand design18:21
cielakanother one will need to focus on reorganising default accomplishments collections18:21
mfischyes18:22
cielakI'll sum up all concerns known to me in a wiki page, to gather these thoughts in one place18:22
mfischplease do18:23
mfisch and post the link for us18:23
cielakI will18:23
mfischLets wrap this up18:24
mfischwe'll need to get a few more folks next time18:24
cielakyup, and depending on who we'll find we'll decide on viewer's future interface18:24
mfischyes18:25
mfischwell I mean our focus for now should just be UDS planning18:25
mfischand encouraging people to attend that remote or in person18:25
cielakright18:25
cielakplanning also includes deciding on blueprints18:26
cielakyet I guess that unless we remind of something significant we won't need any more18:26
cielakone for server/gallery, one for viewer, one for accoms18:27
cielakthat's fairly enough18:27
mfischjono may know some more18:27
mfischcan you send a summary of this out to the list?18:27
mfischand ask for participation?18:27
cielakI'll do so18:27
mfischthanks18:27
mfischI actually have to go to the dentist now :(18:27
cielakno problem :)18:28
mfischthanks cielak18:28
cielakI think we're set18:28
mfischbye everyone18:28
cielakthanks mfisch, bye!18:28
cielak#endmeeting18:29
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Oct  4 18:29:17 2012 UTC.18:29
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-18.02.moin.txt18:29
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-04-18.02.html18:29
xnoxmicahg: Laney: was there MOTU meeting? or am I confused.com?19:42
=== Ursinha_ is now known as Ursinha
Laneyxnox: no, and you are not21:21
Laneywe just didn't bother to have it21:21
Laneylike naughty boys and girls21:21
xnoxLaney: cosmic rays I take it =)21:22
Laneythose pesky rays21:23
uros1Hi all, whats happened with meeting tonight?22:07
uros1anybody?22:09
toddyuros1: you mean the Ubuntu Membership Board Meeting?22:15
uros1yes22:15
toddyI don't know. who is in the board?22:15
uros1cjohnston,22:15
uros1hggdh22:16
uros1PabloRubianes22:16
uros1greg-g22:17
uros1beuno22:17
uros1but look22:18
uros1he next 22:00 UTC meeting will be at Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 22:00:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.22:18
uros1its now, right?22:18
toddyyes, i think so. I have the german time but I think I have UTC+2 and I have 00:19 :)22:19
uros1yes, i have Belgrade time, same timezone22:20
uros1PabloRubianes: what happened with meeting tonight?22:20
PabloRubianesI don't know22:21
PabloRubianesI miss my bus22:21
PabloRubianes:S22:21
uros1cool22:21
PabloRubianessorry I am late22:21
uros1you are first to come22:21
PabloRubianesnone from the board is arround?22:21
PabloRubianesO.O22:22
uros1wellcome22:22
PabloRubianesthanks22:22
uros1we have small party22:22
* greg-g waves22:24
=== wet-chan is now known as wet
PabloRubianesuros1, I am trying to get the rest of the board ;-)22:24
uros1ok ok22:25
uros1:)22:25
hggdhuros1: sorry, I am sick, and was fluttering around22:25
uros1cool22:25
uros1fly?22:25
hggdhno, just dozing on and off22:26
uros1get well, we need you22:26
greg-gsorry about not making quorum, everyone!22:31
hggdhall: unfortunately we need 4 members to vote, and we can only gather 3.22:33
hggdhas such we have no option but to postpone this meeting22:33
hggdhuros1, bojce: I am sorry22:34
uros1ok22:34
PabloRubianeshggdh, +122:34
greg-gsorry again, all22:34
bojceok22:34
uros1next meeting will be?22:34
PabloRubianeson the 18th22:34
uros1ok22:35
bojceok22:35

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