[00:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i should update more often. I've got 1.1GB of updates to download
[00:16] <sarnold> :)
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> it's a good job that only takes a little over 2 minutes for me to download :)
[00:36] <chrisccoulson> does compiz not draw a shadow for argb windows?
[00:42] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: I believe it does some trickery to determine where the opaque regions are?
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, hmmm, i'm not convinced that works :/
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> we've just landed RGBA support in firefox (so we can do native-styled tooltips, amongst other things)
[00:54] <RAOF> I may be simply claiming that it does something that it is technically possible for it to do, rather than what it actually does :)
[00:54] <chrisccoulson> but to simplify things, we turn on RGBA for all popup windows, which includes menus
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> and now popup menus have no shadow :(
[00:55] <RAOF> That would look rather odd, I think.
[00:55] <chrisccoulson> we do that mainly because we have no idea what content is in the window when we create it
[00:56] <chrisccoulson> i'll have to think of a way to nod do rgba for menus :/
[00:56] <chrisccoulson> **not
[00:58] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: You could ask smspillaz about it; it's technically possible for compiz to shadow your windows appropriately.
[00:58] <RAOF> Maybe it'd just like a particular WM atom set?
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> maybe :)
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> i'll hang around to see if he responds
[00:59] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[01:07] <chrisccoulson> brb, i'm going to switch to mutter temporarily ;)
[02:58] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: http://memegenerator.net/instance/27851261
[04:22] <micahg> RAOF: why is /etc/X11/core in /etc, seems like a /var type file?
[04:23]  * micahg keeps getting etckeeper warnings about it being >20MB
[04:23] <RAOF>  !!!
[04:23] <RAOF> Why is /etc/X11/core there *at all*?
[04:24] <micahg> -rw------- 1 root root 44052480 Sep 20 18:51 /etc/X11/core
[04:27]  * micahg has no idea
[04:29] <RAOF> So, X has obviously dumped core when /etc/X11 was the working directory. However, I thought apport caught such things?
[04:53] <didrocks> good morning
[04:53] <RAOF> Howdie
[04:53] <RAOF> What's cookin', didrocks?
[04:54] <didrocks> RAOF: hey! hopefully every is cooked and nothing more to do :)
[04:54] <didrocks> how are you? :)
[04:54] <didrocks> starting to get real nights? ;)
[04:59] <RAOF> Eh. Still twice a night feeding.
[05:00] <RAOF> Although, obviously, that's not *me* doing the feeding :)
[05:00] <didrocks> ah, so yeah, not quite there yet :)
[05:00] <didrocks> heh ;)
[05:00] <RAOF> It'll be a while before Zoë sleeps through the night; less than half of 1yr olds do.
[05:00] <RAOF> (Or maybe it was 40% of 1yr olds *don't* sleep through the night; I forget)
[05:01] <RAOF> Either way, I'm not holding my breath for uninterrupted night's sleep :)
[05:01] <didrocks> RAOF: I have two couple of lucky friends apparently as after 2 months, they did their night :)
[05:01] <didrocks> heh, yeah ;)
[05:18] <TheMuso> I dare say RAOF is looking forward to UDS, where he can get a few full nights of sleep.
[05:19] <RAOF> Eh, it's not bad.
[05:19] <RAOF> The trick is to go to bed at 9pm or so :)
[05:20] <TheMuso> Ok good to hear.
[05:40] <pitti> Bonjour
[05:54] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
[06:20] <jibel> good morning
[06:20] <pitti> bonjour jibel
[06:20] <didrocks> salut jibel
[06:20] <jibel> guten Morgen pitti
[06:20] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:40] <jbicha> hey, we have an issue with yesterday's unity update
[07:41] <dpm> didrocks, good morning! Up for an ubuntumarathon chat in 20'? ;-)
[07:41] <didrocks> dpm: sure, I should maybe leave my night clothes and take a $random t-shirt :)
[07:41] <didrocks> jbicha: oh?
[07:42] <dpm> didrocks, it's ok, just put a shirt on, people won't see your underwear :)
[07:42] <jbicha> because of the fix for bug 1055019, deja-dup, empathy, nautilus, shotwell depend on libunity9 which depends on unity-common which depends on compiz-gnome
[07:42] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1055019 in libunity "libunity9 should depend on unity-common" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055019
[07:43] <didrocks> dpm: heh :)
[07:44] <didrocks> jbicha: can you check with the PS integration team? They should be on #ubuntu-unity
[07:52] <seb128> hey desktopers
[07:52] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:55] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:56] <seb128> lut didrocks pitti, comment vous allez ?
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: je suis très bien, merci! et toi?
[07:56] <didrocks> seb128: ça va bien!
[07:57] <pitti> seb128: (noter l'accent!)
[07:57] <seb128> pitti, je vais bien merci !
[07:58] <didrocks> pitti: you do torture yourself with your keyboard, right? :)
[07:58] <pitti> argh, "je vais"; I should know this by now
[07:58] <pitti> didrocks: compose+e+`, not so bad
[07:58] <didrocks> :)
[07:59] <pitti> I finally put this "scroll lock" key to some good usage
[08:02] <Sweetsha1k> pitti: push-to-talk?
[08:02] <pitti> Sweetsha1k: that's my right control key
[08:04] <Sweetsha1k> seb128, all: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-quantaltest-20120601/+packages <- please test
[08:10] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i'm good thanks. how are you?
[08:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Good morning, Sebastien!
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yesterday you triaged bug #1035219, and I have proposed a solution - I think it's of higher importance than "low". ;-)
[08:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in gnome-control-center "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[08:20] <GunnarHj> seb128: Would appreciate if you could take a look, and let me know if I'm thinking right. In that case I do think it should be merged and uploaded in quantal.
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> sigh @ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798157 :(
[08:21] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 798157 in Widget: Gtk "awesome bar dropdown background color is missing and looks wrong" [Normal,New: ]
[08:24] <seb128> GunnarHj, let me have a look, I put "low" because we don't use that UI in our default desktop
[08:25] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll be here for at least half an hour.
[08:25] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yeah, it's a pretty annoying bug, open the Language Settings widget and if I don't pay attention, the next time I log in, my computer is in Chinese :(
[08:29] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yep, such weird things may well happen. Not if you stick to Unity, but if you install and use other desktops.
[08:29] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, i'm still waiting for amd64 PPA builds :(
[08:29] <seb128> GunnarHj, what is that merge request doing? hiding the region capplet under GNOME sessions as well?
[08:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, to start or to finish?
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128, to start. i'm still waiting for the builds in https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/mozilla-test/+packages so i can copy the rest of the packages across
[08:30] <chrisccoulson> i'll have the final release build available before the final beta at this rate ;)
[08:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ping pitti if you want the score bumped
[08:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yes. Because even if $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP happens to be "GNOME", since you use the Ubuntu version of g-c-c, your OS is Ubuntu, you have the Ubuntu version of accountsservice etc.
[08:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, well, the idea was that GNOME remix would use the upstream region capplet
[08:35] <seb128> rather than language-selector
[08:35] <seb128> so check with jbicha if he really wants to hide those in GNOME
[08:36] <jbicha> language-selector has an awful UI & hopefully we're getting rid of it next cycle
[08:37] <GunnarHj> seb128: But that does simply not work yet. We are not talking about the upstream GNOME distribution, of course, since they don't use the Ubuntu patches.
[08:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, but the GNOME remix aim at having an upstream GNOME experience on Ubuntu
[08:38] <seb128> they favorite upstream UIs over Ubuntu ones
[08:38] <jbicha> also, Ubuntu GNOME Remix doesn't include language-selector-gnome at the moment
[08:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, ^ see
[08:40] <jbicha> GunnarHj: is accountsservice fixable for quantal?
[08:41] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: It's not just a UI design matter. Hope to get the opportunity to talk to you guys IRL about it in Copenhagen.
[08:41] <jbicha> because if we're forced to choose a broken GNOME UI or a broken Ubuntu UI, I'd rather keep the GNOME one
[08:42] <seb128> jbicha, how is the Ubuntu one broken?
[08:42] <GunnarHj> It's not.
[08:43] <jbicha> language-selector-gnome's "drag languages to arrange them" interface scores low on usability
[08:44] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: I don't know much about GNOME remix. Is there a suitable link to a place where I can read about it?
[08:44] <jbicha> I have difficulty using it and I know how it's supposed to work; also it's not really keyboard accessible
[08:45] <jbicha> GunnarHj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10Beta
[08:45] <seb128> GunnarHj, I think at this point we should let jbicha decide what to do for the GNOME remix, if they prefer the upstream UI good enough...
[08:45] <jbicha> there's been a few media reports about it too, it's a mostly pure GNOME edition shipping GNOME Shell by default
[08:46] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Thanks.
[08:47] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Btw, what did you mean by "is accountsservice fixable for quantal"?
[08:51] <GunnarHj> seb128: But I can't believe that jbicha prefers a broken solution, that makes it almost possible to get languages and locales right. I think you try to simplify this issue far too much.
[08:52] <jbicha> GunnarHj: what I mean is can you fix the gnome language chooser widget without just disabling it?
[08:52] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, I need to run out of an hour or so, but I'm happy to take that patch if jbicha acks it
[08:52] <seb128> bbiab
[08:58] <Laney> mhr3: hey. I'm looking at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/118428998/unity-lens-music_6.8.0-0ubuntu1_6.8.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz — I assume r111 is the denied UIFe for Banshee previews? I'll go check now but it would be nice if you could expand such commit messages in future as your ChangeLog doesn't include revision numbers
[08:59] <Laney> such commit messages> reverts
[09:00] <mhr3> Laney, right yea, sorry, i forget those get exported to changelogs
[09:00] <Laney> np, just a heads up
[09:01] <GunnarHj> jbicha: I think it's far too late for quantal. It would require that some Ubuntu patches in accountsservice and a couple of other packages were in effect unapplied, it would preclude the use of lightdm, etc.
[09:08] <GunnarHj> jbicha: There is a plan to start using the g-c-c region UI also in Ubuntu, but nobody seems to have really tried to dig into it deeply enough. Again, I'd be more than happy to talk more about it in both Copenhagen and online. But for now, if I haven't missed anything important, I'm quite sure that the best we can do as regards the GNOME remix for quantal is to use language-selector for setting languages/locales.
[09:08] <jbicha> GunnarHj: except for picking the wrong language when you first open the dialog, the GNOME UI works, right?
[09:19] <GunnarHj> jbicha: I can't really tell to which extent it works, or rather happens to work. (And it depends on what you mean by works, of course.) But please note that things like language installation and input method system also need to be addressed. Again, far too late.
[09:20] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Almost a year ago I put together this document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageSettings
[09:22] <GunnarHj> jbicha: yelp ghelp:language-selector is also good to read in this context.
[09:24] <jbicha> GunnarHj: do you have a bug requesting that GNOME support setting fallback languages in System Settings?
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: srsly, flash used HAL until recently? ugh
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti, flash still uses HAL if you want to watch any DRM protected content
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> although, we now have a way to trick it in to not requiring HAL ;)
[09:56] <pitti> *tsk*
[09:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: python-dbusmock to fake it? :-)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti, heh, nothing quite that complicated :)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i've written a shim that wraps around the flash plugin to provide the minimal feature-set it requires
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> which is basically reading block device serial numbers
[09:58] <pitti> go Adobe
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> heh
[10:27] <Sweetshark> seb128: did you find time to update the LibreOffice ppa package? Is your crasher still there?
[10:32] <RoyK> hm... I just upgraded a server install to Quantal and installed ubuntu-desktop on it, and lightdm doesnt't start automatically
[10:49] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, I updated, no segfault so far \o/
[10:50] <Sweetshark> seb128: no segfaults here either, afernandez reported one segfault in sc_unoapi on his machine, but that might be a general race condition in sc, not something we introduced.
[10:50] <Laney> hmm
[10:51] <Laney> something's wrong with launcher revealing
[10:51] <Laney> does it work for others?
[10:51] <Laney> I can't get it to reveal with the mouse at all
[10:55] <Sweetshark> seb128: well, not general. only in the libreoffice-gtk package as we always complete those tests in headless mode. So it was likely there before for gtk users, hopefully meaning that the race is so rare in real life conditions, that it barely matters. (Note that we do multithreaded stuff like mad in these tests, much more that real life usage would ever happen -- opening and closing something like 10 windows per second).
[10:57] <seb128> Laney, nvidia?
[10:57] <Laney> yeah
[10:58] <Laney> I only just switched to nvidia though
[10:58] <seb128> bug 1057000
[10:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1057000 in unity "[Ubuntu 12.04.1/12.10] nVidia drivers 304.51 prevent autohidden Unity launcher from revealing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057000
[10:58] <Laney> so it could have been since then
[10:58] <Laney> i.e. not related to the new unityu
[10:58] <Laney> ah, thanks
[10:58] <seb128> annoying though
[10:58] <Laney> didn't suspect the drivers
[10:59] <seb128> RAOF, bryceh, mlankhorst, tseliot: ^ how did that went in? shouldn't stuff like "unity keeps working" should be on the test list before landing drivers?
[10:59]  * seb128 unhappy
[11:00] <Laney> well, it sounds like it it /was/ known in advance, from the bug log
[11:01] <Laney> oh, maybe not
[11:03] <tseliot> seb128: I'll bring this up with Nvidia
[11:03] <mlankhorst> seb128: alberto milone uploaded it though..
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, mlankhorst: that's not normal that such regression hit the archive so late in the cycle ...
[11:04] <mlankhorst> not our fault
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, thanks, do you have any ETA or rollback plan?
[11:04] <tseliot> seb128: autohiding is not set by default, is it?
[11:04] <seb128> tseliot, no it's not, still it's a supported important option, we can't roll out quantal with it broken
[11:04] <tseliot> seb128: I know
[11:05] <mlankhorst> but i'd say rollback to 304.43 by updating version to beyond..
[11:05] <seb128> mlankhorst, "not our fault"... there was no urgent need to update those drivers, or not worth breaking unity
[11:05] <seb128> mlankhorst, somebody should have raised the issue,asked the release team about the tradeoff before uploading
[11:36] <didrocks> tseliot: you have been pinged by omer though about that before uploading IIRC
[11:36] <didrocks> mlankhorst: this is what is not normal ^
[11:36] <tseliot> didrocks: when?
[11:37]  * didrocks digs into logs
[11:37] <tseliot> didrocks: it could be that my memory is failing me
[11:39] <didrocks> tseliot: I'm pretty sure it was about a week ago
[11:40] <didrocks> anyway, I think the error is shared. Not testing this before uploading the nvidia driver and PS not raising it "strong enough" I think
[11:41] <tseliot> didrocks: are there any established tests a driver should pass?
[11:41] <didrocks> tseliot: I think autopilot can help
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: as it's triggering some integration multiworspace and reveal tests
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: popey is running them a lot
[11:42] <didrocks> tseliot: maybe running it on your machine before uploading a driver would be a good practice
[11:43] <didrocks> popey should have all the details :) (be warned, running those tests are quite long)
[11:44] <om26er> FWIW edge resistance + launcher reveal both are affected
[11:44] <tseliot> didrocks: that wouldn't be a problem. Do they require user interaction?
[11:44] <didrocks> tseliot: no, but you can't do anything on your machine when it's running
[11:44] <didrocks> as it's moving your cursor and triggering keyboard events
[11:45] <popey> didrocks, tseliot on the phone, will come back to this in a moment
[11:45] <didrocks> popey: no hurry on that one :)
[11:45] <tseliot> didrocks: fair enough, I have a testing box for that
[11:45] <didrocks> sounds good then :)
[11:50] <om26er> there was a similar issue last cycle (bug 938287) which was fixed in Xorg according to Jason.
[11:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 938287 in nova "FLAGS.rpc_response_timeout default is too long" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938287
[11:50] <om26er> bug 938227
[11:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 938227 in unity "Launcher doesn't reveal when set to autohide" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938227
[12:01] <popey> tseliot, running autopilot is taking about 2 hours on my core i7/8GB/SSD machine. It is often generating false positives, so needs some hand-holding
[12:01] <popey> tseliot, it has some hard-wired delays built in at 10s so if often spends time doing nothing (which is frustrating) so i wound that delay down to 5s to get the tests done quicker
[12:03] <tseliot> popey: ok, is this the wiki page I should look at to see how to use it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/QA/Autopilot
[12:04] <popey> that looks a little outdated :(
[12:04] <popey> tseliot, I'll mail you what I do on my machine
[12:04] <popey> and get the wiki updated
[12:04] <tseliot> popey: thanks!
[12:09] <popey> sent
[12:40] <mlankhorst> tseliot: was it known that unity was broken before upload?
[12:45] <seb128> mlankhorst, the bug has been reported on 2012-09-26 which as a week before upload
[12:45] <seb128> which is*
[12:46] <mlankhorst> hm then it shouldn't have been uploaded to quantal at least, it would have been less a problem on precise where you could rollback. :/
[12:46] <seb128> it shouldn't have been uploaded at all yes, we don't upload packages with known regressions
[12:49] <mlankhorst> indeed
[12:54] <mlankhorst> but I mean, did alberto know?
[12:57] <seb128> mlankhorst, dunno
[13:02] <GunnarHj> seb128: FYI, after you left, Jeremy and I kept talking about the GNOME Remix aspect of bug 1035219, but I think we'll talk some more later on. (jbicha seems to not be here right now.)
[13:02] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in gnome-control-center "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[13:03] <seb128> GunnarHj, ok
[13:07] <tseliot> mlankhorst: I didn't know or remember that (same result anyway)
[13:23] <mlankhorst> still it was interesting to find out how it slipped through completely :)
[13:35] <seb128> mlankhorst, more interesting: to find out what we will do so next time it doesn't slip through ;-)
[13:36]  * cyphermox curses at Gobi modems
[13:36] <ogra_> cages !
[13:37] <cyphermox> anyone here has a Gobi in their laptop, and uses it regularly, preferably on precise? :)
[13:38] <seb128> cyphermox, I've a gobby but I didn't use since we have etherpad ;-)
[13:38] <ogra_> lol
[13:38] <seb128> no gobi though ;-)
[13:42] <mlankhorst> seb128: I already explained how it happened and why it would have still had a chance of slipping through :p
[13:43] <seb128> mlankhorst, well, bottom line is that we shouldn't break twice on the same thing, so whoever upload -nvidia should test that unity edge resistance and launcher reveal works
[13:43] <seb128> the unity guys have manual test plans they run before their uploads
[13:43] <seb128> that should be true for us as well, at least on sensitive components
[13:44] <seb128> especially that late in the cycle
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> anyone using fglrx in here?
[13:54] <pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, is that finally working again?
[13:54] <pitti> it's been broken for many weeks now
[13:54] <chrisccoulson> pitti, i've no idea. i wanted someone to try a firefox nightly and tell me if they see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798157 or https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781332
[13:54] <ubot2> Mozilla bug 798157 in Widget: Gtk "awesome bar dropdown background color is missing and looks wrong" [Normal,New: ]
[13:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: actually it seems we did get a new version recently
[13:59] <pitti> and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Quantal/view/AutoPkg%20Test/job/quantal-adt-ubuntu-drivers-common/ actually turned green again (latest is red again, looking)
[13:59] <cyphermox> seb128: yeah, I really mean the horrendous excuse for a mobile modem, rather than the fish or the software ;)
[14:03] <Sweetshark> seb128: I gave libreoffice-core a conflicts/provides/replaces combo against lo-menubar. Looking good to you? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1261960/
[14:04] <seb128> Sweetshark, looks fine yes
[14:05] <Sweetshark> seb128: eh, OTOH that is tricky.
[14:06] <seb128> why?
[14:07] <jibel> pitti, it's because drivers are built against kernel 3.5.0-17 and the images are running 3.5.0-16
[14:07] <Sweetshark> seb128: that functionality is provided by libreoffice-gtk really. Prolly should move that there. In theory, somebody could run libreoffice without libreoffice-gtk and then add lo-menubar for a very ugly libreoffice with unity integration ...
[14:07] <jibel> we'd need to reboot the testbed when there's a kernel update
[14:08] <Laney> Why the Provides?
[14:08] <seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, those should be on the binary which actually provides the feature
[14:08] <Laney> nothing depends on lo-menubar
[14:09] <seb128> Laney, C,R,P is the best way to tell dpkg to replace something by something else
[14:09] <seb128> it's like "yeah, that one is a replacement for this old one"
[14:10] <seb128> I don't know the specifics of how dpkg works, but I've been told long ago that C,R,P was a magic trio for such cases
[14:10] <Laney> well it's needed if you still want apt-get install lo-menubar to do the right thing
[14:10] <Laney> maybe that's desirable
[14:10] <seb128> it doesn't hurt for sure to add the provides
[14:11] <Sweetshark> seb128: the debian policy tells so.
[14:11] <micahg> can we please remove lo-menubar from quantal if lo itself is providing this functionality?
[14:11] <seb128> +1
[14:11] <Sweetshark> micahg, seb128: sure. once the package is actually in.
[14:12] <seb128> Sweetshark, well, appmenu integration is already in quantal so we can ask for lo-menubar to be deleted from the archive
[14:12] <Sweetshark> seb128: true.
[14:14] <micahg> seb128: on release upgrade, C/P/R might not be enough, I wonder if we need a transitional package
[14:14] <seb128> why wouldn't it be enough?
[14:14] <seb128> nothing depends,recommends lo-menubar
[14:14] <micahg> update-manager doesn't like to remove thinks
[14:14] <micahg> *things
[14:15]  * micahg is unsure if the release upgrader is similarly averse
[14:15] <seb128> mvo, ^ can we tell update-manager that lo-menubar is fine to remove because it's outdated and dropped from the archive?
[14:15] <mvo> seb128: its currently not designed to remove stuff, the latest designs have removal there now, but I'm not sure that this is already implemented
[14:15] <micahg> otherwise, either lo or lo-menubar should ship an empty transitional package
[14:16] <seb128> those empty transitional packages are so stupid
[14:16] <micahg> well, if the GUI tools worked liked the CLI ones we wouldn't need them :)
[14:16] <seb128> we should really solve that issue :-(
[14:17] <seb128> mvo, well, what happens if you upgrade from precise to quantal with lo-menubar installed (which has no rdepends or r-recommends)?
[14:17] <seb128> mvo, knowing that quantal libreoffice-gtk will C,R,P lo-menubar
[14:17] <mvo> seb128: on the release upgrade? then it will be automatically removed, especially if its no longer needed
[14:17] <Laney> surely this is a rather common situation
[14:18] <seb128> mvo, you just said the upgrade was not designed to remove stuff?
[14:18] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I would think so
[14:18] <mvo> seb128: sorry, I assumed you meant the update-manager, not the ubuntu-release-upgrader
[14:18] <seb128> but micahg says we might need a dummy transitional package
[14:18] <seb128> mvo, ^ that's the question mostly
[14:18] <seb128> do we need a dummy transitional binary for a "trivial case" like that (e.g nothing never depended or recommended lo-menubar)
[14:19] <mvo> seb128: we might if a lot of stuff depends on the package, then apt is not always smart enough to figure out that its ok to remove the package. the algorithm is conversative and shys away from removing stuff with lots of reverse dependencies
[14:20] <mvo> seb128: is there a bugreport? sorry, I would have to look at the acual pkg and dependencies to say anything creditable :)
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, well as said, it's lo-menubar, which was in universe, nothing ever depended or recommended on it
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, it's a "leaf" binary
[14:25] <seb128> mvo, it's deprecated by libreoffice itself
[14:27] <mvo> seb128: oh, in this case we are fine, the release upgrader is pretty careless^Wok with removing packages in general and if its a leaf binary it should not be a problem at all
[14:27] <mvo> seb128: its really just for the stable->stable updates that its picky
[14:28] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[14:28] <seb128> mvo, danke
[14:28] <micahg> it's still probably better to convert the lo-menubar package to transitional for quantal (to make sure it gets removed even in update-manager) and then remove for R
[14:29] <mvo> micahg: I don't mind, I don't know enough about lo-menubar to make a call on this, either way is fine with me, just saying that the release upgrader should cope with it (one way or the other)
[14:30] <micahg> I mean even for people that are already on quantal...
[14:30] <micahg> mvo: right, since the release upgrader can cope, it can be removed in R as opposed to U :)
[14:31] <seb128> I wouldn't bother adding a transitional package
[14:31] <seb128> but I just hate those :p
[14:31] <seb128> if somebody else want to do it I will not block you
[14:32] <mvo> micahg: aha, now I get the picture, yeah Q->Q for that it will help
[14:32] <mvo> woah, we have a compost caluclator now (not a composited one) - amazing
[14:32]  * mvo looks at the screenshots
[14:33] <seb128> lol
[14:33] <micahg> Sweetshark: so, the global menu only works for the GTK libreoffice and not the Qt one?
[14:37] <Sweetshark> micahg: It works with the gtk vcl-plugin. If you run libreoffice with the gtk-plugin in kde it works there too.
[14:38] <Sweetshark> micahg: it does not work with the kde vcl-plugin.
[14:38] <micahg> Sweetshark: ah, ok, lo-menubar was pulling in libreoffice-gtk anyways, so it's not an issue
[14:38] <pitti> re
[14:39] <pitti> yummy, c'etait l'heure pour la glace!
[14:39]  * micahg goes and uploads the transitional package
[14:39] <pitti> jibel: kenrel version> was that what I discussed with psivaa?
[14:41] <seb128> pitti, il fait trop froid pour manger des glaces
[14:41] <pitti> seb128: non, il fait chaud (il est de 20 degrés Celsius)
[14:41] <pitti> et le ciel est blue
[14:41] <pitti> bleue
[14:41] <seb128> pas ici :-(
[14:41] <seb128> 18°C, gros nuages, pluie et vent
[14:42]  * pitti forgot again what "hug" means -- c'est ne pas "je tu embrasse", oui?
[14:43] <micahg> seb128: should I bother pushing the lo-menubar transitional stuff to the desktop branch or just mark it abandoned?
[14:43] <seb128> micahg, you can delete the desktop vcs for it
[14:44] <seb128> pitti, je t'embrasse sort of work but it's usually used for kiss rather than hug
[14:45] <jibel> pitti, no, it is not related to psivaa's issue
[14:45] <seb128> pitti, we would likely use "donner une accolade"
[14:45] <didrocks> +1 on "donner une accolade"
[14:45] <didrocks> but you wouldn't hear it that much on the street :)
[14:46] <seb128> "dans mes bras!" works too ;-)
[14:46] <didrocks> "faire un câlin" would be another translation I guess, but it can have some (sweet) connotation if you are with a girl (but it's not a slang way to tell it)
[14:47] <pitti> 1001 ways of embarassing yourself
[14:47] <seb128> hehe
[14:47] <didrocks> indeed :)
[14:47] <didrocks> maybe that's why we didn't really hug in France :)
[14:48] <pitti> merely because of the lack of a simple word!
[14:48]  * pitti goes to https://launchpad.net/français/+filebug
[14:48] <didrocks> heh :)
[14:48] <jibel> I think it's "Donner l'accolade" and not "Donner *une* accolade"
[14:48] <pitti> "the" hug is better than "a" hug?
[14:48] <didrocks> jibel: proof we don't use it! :)
[14:49] <didrocks> wiktionary agrees with jibel
[14:49] <didrocks> pitti: seems it's not countable in French :)
[14:49]  * pitti hugs.translate('français') seb128, didrocks, et jibel
[14:49]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[14:49]  * didrocks hugs pitti back
[14:50]  * jibel hugs pitti too 
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: well, I know you guys can't count beyond 16 *duck*, but counting one hug??
[14:50] <didrocks> pitti: please take care with ç to not have UTF8 error :)
[14:50] <pitti> didrocks: mais bien, c'est python trois
[14:50] <didrocks> on est sauvé \o/
[14:51] <seb128> pitti, come on, we can count until 10 any normal day and we can double than when we don't have to wear shoes :p
[14:51]  * mlankhorst can nearly count to 2^10!
[14:51] <pitti> . o O { Dieu merci, c'est vendredi }
[14:51] <seb128> hehe
[14:52] <didrocks> et le vendredi c'est ravioli :)
[14:52] <mlankhorst> lol
[14:52] <seb128> didrocks, j'en ai mangé à midi !
[14:52] <seb128> (sans dec ;-)
[14:52] <mdeslaur> haha
[14:52] <pitti> didrocks: yummy
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: ahah!
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: merci d'appuyer mon propos :)
[14:52] <mlankhorst> cute, google now has a calculator app when you use math in it
[14:53] <pitti> didrocks: tu vas faire nouriture de italienne tout les vendredis?
[14:53] <didrocks> pitti: non, c'est juste une référence à une vieille pub :-)
[14:54] <pitti> didrocks: "pub" est comme en anglais?
[14:54] <micahg> seb128: package uploaded, removal bug filed and targetted to R
[14:54] <didrocks> pitti: non, c'est "ads"
[14:55] <didrocks> pub == publicité :)
[14:56] <pitti> ah, merci
[14:59] <micahg> Sweetshark: please add a note in your commit for the C/P/R on lo-menubar that it needs to stay until after the 14.04 LTS (otherwise we'll be wondering 1.5 yrs from now why people are having a bad menu experience :))
[15:01] <jibel> pitti, didrocks was referring to a famous French movie 1:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmgHFI4k3Oo  , if you're studying French you'll have to watch this movie ;)
[15:02] <Sweetshark> micahg: done
[15:03] <Laney> why does it have to stay?
[15:03] <Laney> without it you'll just get upgraded to the empty lo-menubar won't you?
[15:05] <pitti> jibel: Je ne compris pas un mot, mais je souviens pour plus tard
[15:05] <micahg> Laney: Bug #1062350
[15:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062350 in lo-menubar "Please remove lo-menubar from R" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062350
[15:05] <micahg> Sweetshark: thanks
[15:06] <bryceh> seb128, I had heard rumors of serious problems with 304.51 (and assumed others knew more than me), and figured we'd skip that version.  So as soon as I saw it go in, I raised the issue with jason.
[15:06] <bryceh> tseliot, I was thinking maybe a way we could avoid this in the future would be if, during development, new versions spend time in nvidia-current-updates before going into nvidia-current.
[15:07] <bryceh> we have both packages at our disposal, may as well put them to some use, right?  :-)
[15:07] <tseliot> bryceh: having a well establish procedure would, IMO, solve the problem. I.e. a test suite the driver should pass before being uploaded
[15:07] <tseliot> *established
[15:08] <bryceh> tseliot, I half a half drafted proposal I'll send  out.  I'm kicking myself for not suggesting it earlier.
[15:09] <tseliot> bryceh: maybe it's something we can discuss a UDS too?
[15:09] <bryceh> tseliot, not a bad idea, you think like a whole session on nvidia packaging strategery?
[15:10] <tseliot> bryceh: a session on what tests all graphics drivers should pass before being uploaded
[15:10] <tseliot> not just nvidia
[15:13] <bryceh> tseliot, gotcha.  hey speaking of other drivers, I see we got fglrx 9.000, does that work well or are there any known issues with it so far?
[15:13] <tseliot> bryceh: it seems to work well but we have no other choice anyway ;)
[15:16] <bryceh> tseliot, well of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines  of if it's safe putting into precise-updates and so on.  Guess we can watch the bug tracker on it for a while and find out.
[15:17] <tseliot> bryceh: yes, let's wait a little bit longer
[15:55] <mhr3> seb128, do you know which pkg contains the http plugin for gvfs?
[15:56] <mhr3> looks like gvfs-backends
[15:56] <mhr3> thx :)
[15:58] <didrocks> yw mhr3 :)
[15:58] <didrocks> do not hesitate next time you have any question (and can answer yourself :p)
[15:58] <didrocks> always appreciated ;)
[15:59] <josepht> bug #1040691 is a regression from P to Q
[15:59] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1040691 in compiz "lowered window retains focus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040691
[16:03] <seb128> mhr3, what didrocks said ;-)
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> g'ah, i hate hate hate hate stupid bug auto-confirm
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> can we please disable that? or at least make it possible to see who keeps hitting "this bug also affects me" on some of the most poorly and vaguely described bugs?
[16:09] <josepht> chrisccoulson: my bug?
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> josepht, bug 1057769
[16:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1057769 in firefox "Firefox key up / down / page up / page down don't work in web page" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1057769
[16:11] <chrisccoulson> there's no useful information there at all. no browser version. no addons. no URL of a site with the problem
[16:12] <chrisccoulson> yet it's followed by an auto-confirm
[16:12] <cyphermox> seb128: on bug 1027638; someone brings up an interesting workaround for nm-applet not showing some of the menu entries on login
[16:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1027638 in network-manager-applet "nm-applet doesn't show connection/devices on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027638
[16:12] <cyphermox> it would be to use X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay; I'm tempted to push it with a delay of 15 seconds or so
[16:12] <josepht> chrisccoulson: indeed
[16:12] <cyphermox> seb128: what do you think?
[16:18] <seb128> cyphermox, does it eventually pick those entries when that bug happens ?
[16:18] <seb128> cyphermox, or is it screwed for the session ?
[16:18] <mhr3> seb128, didrocks, only if you'll be doing the same ;)
[16:18] <didrocks> mhr3: we didn't commit to that :-)
[16:19] <didrocks> mhr3: good week-end dude ;)
[16:19] <mhr3> same :)
[16:19] <cyphermox> seb128: it can take the entries if you have wireless or something else that will change the state, but for wired unless people do some action manually with the menu or on the command line, it's screwed
[16:20] <cyphermox> it's very much a timing thing. this wouldn't necessarily be a *fix* but seems like the best option so far
[16:20] <cyphermox> the actual delay to give it is another issue entirely though :/
[16:21] <seb128> cyphermox, what's the real issue, an indicator one?
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, bon w.e
[16:21] <cyphermox> yes
[16:21] <seb128> cyphermox, is the indicator bug filed?
[16:21] <cyphermox> I don't see what you mean?
[16:22] <cyphermox> it's unclear why it happens, but I understand how given how nm-applet works
[16:22] <seb128> well, if that's a bug in the indicator side, is that a bug in libindicator, unity ... is that been looked at?
[16:22] <cyphermox> not afaik
[16:22] <seb128> well, I would assume that nm-applet updates its menu
[16:22] <cyphermox> yes
[16:22] <seb128> and that unity should refresh the ui when the menu changes
[16:22] <cyphermox> but it updates based on what signals NM throws at it
[16:22] <seb128> so there is still a real bug to track down there
[16:23] <cyphermox> if you just don't get the signals, you can't do much
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: je pars pas encore, mais bon week-end à toi aussi :) (mhr3 partait, c'est pour ça)
[16:23] <seb128> mhr3, bon w.e
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, ah ok, ;-)
[16:23] <cyphermox> seb128: now that I think of it though, maybe I have a better fix for it
[16:23] <seb128> cyphermox, well, anyway the workaround seems fine but I would still like to see the real issue being investigated
[16:24] <Sweetshark> seb128: I put libreoffice_3.6.2~rc2-0ubuntu1 on chinstrap. Its still building locally, I will ping you when its done. I hope you can sponsor it then.
[16:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, I can
[16:24] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[16:24] <cyphermox> seb128: any ideas on how to debug this? the fact that it's while logging in poses some issues (and also because I was never able to reproduce it)
[16:26] <seb128> cyphermox, I don't understand what's the situation where it happen ... I guess it might be a race between unity and the indicator loadings
[16:28] <cyphermox> I think I also just might be an idiot
[16:28] <cyphermox> I'm seeing something very wrong in the code now
[16:34] <cyphermox> nah, it's not wrong
[16:46] <cyphermox> brb, lunch
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, does anyone actually like objective-C ?
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> every time i look at mac-specific parts of firefox, i vomit a little in my mouth
[16:57] <ogra_> its authors ?
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, heh ;)
[17:01] <micahg> chrisccoulson: thanks for the objective c memory jog ;)
[17:02] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: I see what they did they mis-spelt objectionable-C
[17:33] <tseliot> seb128: so, a reverted nvidia-current is in (still needs approval). we might want to keep current-updates at 304.51 so as to help Nvidia test the issue
[17:33] <tseliot> seb128: and current-updates is gonna be updated to a newer release anyway
[17:47] <seb128> tseliot, works for me
[17:48] <seb128> tseliot, thanks for handling that!
[17:59] <Sweetshark> seb128: package is looking good IMHO, please review and sponsor.
[18:00] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[18:00] <desrt> Sweetshark: did they get the hud stuff working?
[18:01] <Sweetshark> seb128: commits are here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ubuntu-quantal-3.6, if that helps. last release was at the Adam Conrad commit.
[18:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[18:02] <Sweetshark> desrt: Even if, I wouldnt push that in with ~zero regression testing now unless its a oneliner. Will be SRUed, if possible.
[18:02] <bryceh> tseliot, excellent thanks
[18:04] <desrt> Sweetshark: :(
[18:04] <desrt> non-working HUD in libreoffice is going to hurt a bit...
[18:05] <desrt> it's gonna be near-oneliner in any case
[18:05] <desrt> maybe like a two-functioner :)
[18:06] <seb128> desrt, SRU will have to do
[18:06] <desrt> seb128: that has a nice ring to it
[18:12] <Sweetshark> desrt: yes, I want that in too. But I have been burned to often by hasting such stuff in with the turnaround times of this tanker.
[18:12] <desrt> fair enough
[18:13] <Sweetshark> desrt: see also https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-reboot-libreoffice-packaging
[18:13] <Sweetshark> anyway, /me gone for the weekend.
[18:14] <desrt> Sweetshark: cheerio
[18:58] <kenvandine> yay... i see appointments in indicator-datetime
[18:58] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^
[18:59] <kenvandine> glad you handled that :)
[18:59] <seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
[18:59] <seb128> kenvandine, well, I mostly bugged charles and larsu until it was fixed ;-)
[18:59] <seb128> but I'm glad we fixed it before release as well
[19:01] <larsu> my part was helping seb128 bug charles :)
[19:01] <larsu> now I only wish I'd see google calendar entries in there ...
[19:01] <kenvandine> i do :)
[19:02] <larsu> well, without setting them up in evolution I mean
[19:02] <kenvandine> yeah
[19:02] <kenvandine> would be cool if adding your google account in UOA would do that
[19:03] <larsu> definitely. Well, there's alway next cycle ;)
[19:03] <seb128> didrocks said he would put a spec on for next cycle and do that
[19:04] <kenvandine> woot
[19:07] <larsu> seb128, \o/
[19:23] <micahg> jbicha: are you handling the gdm/gnome-shell stuff in the sponsors queue?
[19:26] <jbicha> micahg: yes, I'll go ahead and mark them in progress then
[19:26] <micahg> jbicha: thanks
[19:26] <micahg> jbicha: should I unsubscribe sponsors?
[19:26] <jbicha> I can do that too
[19:27] <micahg> ok
[19:47] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Welcome back! Did you see my follow-up email on the conversation we had earlier today?
[19:49] <jbicha> yes, thanks, I was traveling earlier today
[19:49] <jbicha> I'm in Boston so I'll see what the GNOME guys think about it
[19:54] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Good. I'm going to install GNOME Remix beta, and play around with it. Better to _really_ know what you are talking about. ;-)