[00:40] <TheDrums> Anything other than the fact of added time, is there a reason squashfs isn't being used with the -comp xz option?  I just tried it and it helped quite a bit on space.
[00:43] <nandof> evening to all, I'm ready to start with some testing. How I can help?
[00:49] <silverarrow> hi
[00:49] <silverarrow> what have you installed?
[00:50] <silverarrow> or burned really
[00:51] <nandof> hi silverarrow, I have installed, right now, xubuntu 12.04 and lubuntu 12.10 in virtualbox
[00:51] <silverarrow> I see
[00:51] <silverarrow> are you trying to do release upgrade on xubuntu+
[00:52] <silverarrow> in terminal I mean
[00:52] <silverarrow> could you launch alsamixer -a basic?
[00:52] <silverarrow> in 12.10
[00:53] <nandof> nop silverarrow, but I can try if you needed ;)
[00:53] <nandof> give me 1 second
[00:55] <silverarrow> I have great trouble  with it in lubuntu ppc
[00:56] <silverarrow> it does not appear
[00:56] <silverarrow> and i have no sound
[00:57] <silverarrow> i have to reboot brb
[01:04] <nandof> silverarrow Im updating lubuntu :/ gimme more time XD
[01:08] <phillw> wxl: / silverarrow... We are still here. Our VM's simply cannot help.
[01:08] <phillw> #t
[01:14] <silverarrow> back
[01:14] <silverarrow> nandorf, did you get around to do it?
[01:15] <nandof> yes silverarrow, sorry, gimme more time. I'm updating lubuntu
[01:15] <silverarrow> yeah, it takes time
[01:17] <nandof> this is my first testing event, so.... I'm newbie and I hope to be helpful
[01:19] <silverarrow> there are some clever guys here
[01:20] <silverarrow> I`m mostly here because I have an iBook G4
[01:20] <nandof> :o
[01:20] <silverarrow> and I was stubbornly sticking to lubuntu, and not wanting to go back to tiger or leopard on this thing
[01:21] <silverarrow> powerpc testers were needed
[01:21] <silverarrow> it is rather difficult when you have to look for solutions
[01:22] <silverarrow> some people seem to be dead tired of the whole testing thing
[01:22] <silverarrow> on the ubuntu forum  I mean
[01:22] <silverarrow> here people are eager to make things work
[01:23] <silverarrow> we miss people with ppc experience I think
[01:23] <silverarrow> luckily there are very good people on the job
[01:23] <nandof> yeah, I think so
[01:25] <nandof> the upgrading is almost done
[01:25] <silverarrow> everything that goes wrong in ppc easily gets blamed on the ppc part, but I have a strong feeling it often is more general issues popping up on different hardware
[01:26] <nandof> you mean about the firmware?
[01:27] <silverarrow> is there a difference?
[01:27] <silverarrow> yes
[01:28] <silverarrow> one more reboot
[01:28] <silverarrow> sorry
[01:28] <nandof> no problem :)
[01:36] <silverarrow> back again
[01:36] <silverarrow> updates all the time on the beta
[01:45] <silverarrow> nandof: did you have a restart?
[01:45] <nandof> nop, my lubuntu is in a VM's
[01:45] <nandof> installing updates... ... ...
[01:46] <silverarrow> oh of course
[01:47] <nandof> it takes too long to upgrade. /Me now desperate
[01:54] <silverarrow> it`s all right
[01:54] <silverarrow> first update?
[01:54] <silverarrow> it can take ages, or slow network?
[01:54] <nandof> slow network :( silverarrow
[01:55] <silverarrow> mine is all right now, but can vary a lot
[02:15] <Noskcaj> and ouur PPC testing problem are solved http://sourceforge.net/projects/mac-on-linux/
[02:16] <silverarrow> what does that mean?
[02:17] <Noskcaj> useing that or pearPC we dont need to get old macs or do heaps of commoand line stuff in qemu
[02:18] <silverarrow> not sure how that  would work
[02:18] <silverarrow> running osx in virtual mode?
[02:20] <Noskcaj> running PPC
[02:20] <silverarrow> it`s been around since 2007, and hardly any progress ?
[02:20] <silverarrow> well, anything that helps
[02:20] <Noskcaj> also how do you install an application from tar.bz2
[02:21] <silverarrow> oh, that again
[02:21] <silverarrow> no idea
[02:22] <silverarrow> archivemanager and package manager is the usual
[02:23] <silverarrow> is anyone booted in lubuntu?
[02:23] <silverarrow> or ubuntu
[03:18] <Noskcaj> why is there no lvm + encription xubuntu testcase?
[04:05] <sagaci> balloons: the latest entire disk testcase page is unresponsive for me http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/24874/testcases/1300/results
[04:05] <balloons> sagaci, as in the tracker is unresponsive?
[04:05] <sagaci> yeah, I guess os
[04:08] <balloons> :-(
[04:08] <balloons> give it a moment and try again
[04:21] <sagaci> yep, back up
[04:59] <balloons> sagaci, excellent
[04:59] <balloons> sometimes it gets a bit funy
[04:59] <balloons> maybe during a maintenance period?
[04:59] <balloons> not sure
[07:59] <elfy> balloons: so as you are awake - you look at yesterday's arm daily - main question I have - did it actually boot ?
[07:59] <elfy> :)
[08:00] <balloons> :)
[08:00] <balloons> elfy, I'm not sure I remember!
[08:00] <balloons> but yes, unity 6.8 is landed
[08:00] <balloons> and when i awake I'll test it and arm again
[08:00] <balloons> regressions are the key to look for
[08:00] <elfy> LOL
[08:01] <balloons> I have to sleep first
[08:01] <balloons> then aawake
[08:01] <elfy> ok - I'll wait for the daily to change and update it - been a bit away with the fairies the last week or so I'm afraid
[08:01] <elfy> yea - you'll sleep the sleep of the righteous :D
[08:03] <elfy> might be here - but I appear to have a major regression - it used to boot ok - now it doesn't lol
[08:43] <balloons> ouch
[08:43] <balloons> so no workie?
[08:52] <elfy> nope
[08:52] <elfy> not seen anyone say the same - so I'm assuming it's something here :)
[08:58] <balloons> elfy, can you mail the list and see?
[08:58] <balloons> let others know -- I'm not even seeing straight now I don't think
[08:58] <balloons> heh
[08:58] <balloons> :-)
[08:58] <balloons> but ask them to look at a build between now and monday
[08:58] <balloons> and we'll sort it out
[08:58] <elfy> well - there'll be a new daily shortly - I'll carry on fiddling about and if still nothing later I'll mail the list
[08:59] <balloons> waiting a day isn't bad, upgraded is also goo
[08:59] <balloons> *good
[08:59]  * balloons wnts to make sure it has unity 6.8
[08:59] <elfy> and yea know how you feel I did 17/18 hour days for 3 months ...
[09:05] <elfy> got it :)
[10:15] <phillw>  elfy is there an KVM for ARM?
[10:16] <elfy> no idea phillw
[10:18] <phillw> elfy: hmm, it's still a WIP
[11:02] <elfy> phillw: do you find the tracker to be reaaaly slow?
[11:04] <phillw> elfy: at this time of day, it is most likely faster than me :) Do you have a link and I can test from 'piglet' and 'the beast'
[11:04] <elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/24969/testcases/1303/results
[11:05] <phillw> that's slow!
[11:05] <elfy> thought so
[11:06] <knome> hmm
[11:06] <knome> worked fine for me
[11:06] <elfy> using mtr I'm getting 74% packet loss from eth0.lutin.canonical.com
[11:07] <phillw> elfy: but, with the number of bugs it is looking up, I'm amazed it didn't just go .... I can't be bothered... this is totally broken :)
[11:07] <elfy> phillw: :) I'd agree - cept I've had trouble with it all morning
[11:08] <phillw> let me try a case with fewer bugs :)
[11:08] <elfy> when I typed the using mtr - I at the same time passed a testcase - it's still waiting for it
[11:08] <elfy> arm is installing faster ...
[11:08] <elfy> :D
[11:09] <phillw> elfy: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/24898/testcases/1439/results launches immediatly
[11:11] <phillw> It is the fact the tracker is waiting on getting the bugs from LP that I think is slowing down http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/24969/testcases/1303/results
[11:11] <phillw> That's a lot of bugs!
[11:22] <elfy> mmm - that's a pita
[11:23] <elfy> shame the tracker can't tell the difference between flavours
[11:28] <knome> elfy, file a bug :)
[11:28] <knome> elfy, otoh, i think it shouldn't in most cases..
[11:29] <phillw> elfy: they have only recently (this cycle) the ability to carry bugs over.... I the past, all bug reports were wiped each day. The new system may be a PITA, but it is one heck better than what we had in the past.
[11:30] <knome> well, there's also that for the installation tests, we are using shared tests
[11:31] <phillw> there has been a lot of work done on QA/Testing area... <joda>  perfect it is not, complaints you will make, fixes we will make </end Joda>
[11:32] <elfy> knome: if I filed a bug it'd get added to the longlist and make it worse :D
[11:33] <knome> elfy, no, file a bug against the tracker :P
[11:33] <phillw> elfy: that does encourage people to fix them? ... :P
[11:33] <elfy> it's definitely only been like this recently ish
[11:33] <elfy> knome: I knew what you meant :) just had piskie's head on for a moment
[11:33] <knome> ;)
[11:35] <elfy> managed to get quite a few done today - 2 arm's 2 xubuntu so far
[11:37] <phillw> elfy: have you had a play with http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/projects/kvm-arm/ ?
[11:37] <elfy> nope - I know without looking - only really started looking at arm in the last few weeks properly
[11:39] <phillw> I think it is the atypical give us some encouragement - the edu's in US of A do turn out decent stuff. There is no harm in engaging them :)
[11:40] <phillw> kanliot So, the search teams found you! please /j ##phillw
[13:15] <phillw> wxl: Can you please make bug 1043518 coherent?
[13:16] <phillw> wxl: do you have a fix?
[13:23] <roadmr> micahg: hello! about the checkbox 0.14.8 candidate, I can certainly request FFe for the bug you mentioned, just wanted to ask if the bug itself (driver version when using prop drivers fails) is not enough
[13:23] <roadmr> micahg: also, for changes, is it OK if I just add a commit to the branch to fix them and resubmit, or should I prepare a "clean" branch and send new merge request?
[13:28] <micahg> roadmr: you can add to the current merge proposal
[13:28] <micahg> roadmr: you could add a distro task to the current bug and request the FFe there if you like, or create a new one and point to the old one
[13:29] <roadmr> micahg: a distro task sounds cleaner to me, I think I'll do that
[13:29] <roadmr> micahg: thanks so much :)
[13:29] <micahg> roadmr: sure, just keep in mind final freeze is Tuesday at 21:00 UTC
[13:31] <roadmr> micahg: oops :) well I'll ask around, maybe we can just remove that feature if it's not critical
[14:08] <silverarrow> the alsamixer problems I am having seems to be an old one
[16:06] <silverarrow> are there any news on the alsamixer trouble ?
[16:06] <silverarrow> it seems to be affecting regulari386 too
[16:09] <phillw> silverarrow: bug number, please :)
[16:13] <kanliot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/+bug/1060452
[16:14] <kanliot> working on my 12.10 amd64
[16:56] <komputes> psivaa: hey, are you having an issue booting into the Desktop CD?
[16:58] <psivaa> komputes, yea that's not consistent though at times the reboot did not detect the usb as the install media
[17:00] <komputes> psivaa: I had the same thing, I think. It booted until syslinux then a black screen, after a hard reboot it did not see the usb media (I have to un/re-plug it again)
[17:03] <psivaa> komputes, hmm i did not see the black screen though, it just booted without detecting the usb
[17:03] <psivaa> komputes, it is not everytime though
[17:08] <komputes> psivaa: is this on bare metal or vm?
[17:08] <psivaa> komputes, baremetals two of them amd64 and amd64+mac
[17:09] <komputes> psivaa: whats the hardware?
[17:10] <wxl> phew all night cleaning spree last night
[17:10] <wxl> phillw: you mentioned bug 1043518?
[17:10] <wxl> are you looking for the executive summary?
[17:11] <psivaa> komputes, one of them is a mac mini and the other is dell inspiron
[17:12] <phillw> wxl: some of this stuff has been passed upstream by Colin. You should have the emails?
[17:13] <komputes> psivaa: I have both and can test it to see if I can confirm this. If you have exact models it would also help.
[17:13] <wxl> phillw: executive summary— the bug was reported on an amd64 system and it seems all the other confirmations were on similar systems. only two folks i know with the problem are johnathan and i and we have the same card. the fix worked for the other folks. for us, i made a new bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1061790 more work needs to be done here but it's mostly good.
[17:13] <wxl> phillw: that good enough?
[17:14] <wxl> phillw: also re: emails i'm working on that :)
[17:15] <psivaa> komputes, the dell is N4010 i could give you the lsmod if you'd like
[17:17] <phillw> a request has been made by colin upstream about this unholly mess.
[17:18] <wxl> phillw: largely it's a non issue but adam is right: we need a pointer to ppcfaq in yaboot. and it ineeds to be more obvious (put stars around it or something)
[17:18] <wxl> or a big "read me" in ascii art :)
[17:19]  * wxl usually sets up his yaboot and/or motd with ascii art XD
[17:19] <phillw> wxl: keep adam in the loop, he is still the guy who has best contact with colin. A grumpy old timer he may be, but no one can call in to doubt his dedication :)
[17:20] <wxl> phillw: i'll tell you one thing. now that i know who adam is (rsavage on forums) i know why you were so disappointed by his loss. he is a major help with a lot of knwoledge. a lot. and you're right, he responds well to people that need a little direction to help themselves.
[17:20] <phillw> wxl: Colin REALLY does not want to use boot parameters.
[17:21] <wxl> he's also snarky as all get out, but i'm cool with that, becuase, whether you get it or not: http://is.gd/gJ5bRQ
[17:21] <kanliot> something mucked with audio on my 12.10
[17:21] <psivaa> komputes, mac mini is probably 2.3 ( not sure how to find out though)
[17:21] <wxl> phillw: oh, and boot parameters are not necessary. as long as colin is cool with xorg.conf.
[17:21] <wxl> kanliot: no?! what? on what system?
[17:22] <phillw> wxl: He has kept ppc alive. I need say no more. you now realise that.
[17:22] <wxl> kanliot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/+bug/1060452
[17:22] <kanliot> lol wxl
[17:22] <kanliot> just something installed pulseaudio
[17:22] <wxl> oh
[17:22] <kanliot> no idea what, haven't installed anything for a week
[17:22] <wxl> well who cares then that's your own darn fault :)
[17:23] <kanliot> is it?
[17:23] <wxl> kanliot: just being silly, but it does point to the notion about being carefully what your software installs along with it.
[17:23] <kanliot> what if it just happened after i updated?
[17:24] <wxl> that's strange
[17:24] <wxl> possible
[17:24] <phillw> kanliot: shouldn't you be off doing better thing?... like editing the getlubuntu area? :D
[17:24] <kanliot> i did that already
[17:24] <kanliot> besides i'm testing
[17:24] <wxl> look in /var/log/dpkg.log
[17:24] <kanliot> ah
[17:24] <kanliot> see that's smart
[17:24] <wxl> e.g. grep pulseaudio /var/log/dpkg.log
[17:24]  * wxl beams?
[17:25] <phillw> wxl: if he has done his tasks, he's all yours! I'm off to install an instance for TOR
[17:25] <kanliot> yeah it was installed today, just like i though
[17:25] <kanliot> t
[17:26] <wxl> ok so now i need to remember how to look up dependencies and what not
[17:26] <kanliot> lol me 2
[17:26] <phillw> https://www.torproject.org/index.html.en Now, who suggested me to that project.....
[17:26] <wxl> i'm gonna ask elsewhere
[17:26] <wxl> i know bioterror or holstein or Unit193 knows this
[17:27] <kanliot> well it was gstreamer0.10
[17:28] <wxl> how do you know?
[17:28] <kanliot> /var/log/dpkg.log
[17:30] <wxl> i have four packages that begin with gstreamer0.10
[17:30] <wxl> and no pulseaudio
[17:32] <wxl> do you mean gstreamer0.10-alsa?
[17:32] <kanliot> ok, maybe i don't know what i know
[17:32] <wxl> or you mean gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio? cuz you shouldn't have that
[17:33] <kanliot> i'm take a break
[17:33] <kanliot> thanks for the help sincerely
[17:34] <wxl> we'll figure it out
[17:34] <kanliot> can you check out gpicview on 12.10?
[17:35] <wxl> messed up display with medium-large images?
[17:36] <wxl> kanliot: apt-cache rdepends pulseaudio will give reverse dependencies but it will give you all possible ones, rather than only the ones you have installed
[17:37] <wxl> you could write a script to iterate through dpkg --get-selections and grep the list for them, but i think that function is built into aptitude, too
[17:37] <wxl> me hates aptitude
[17:37] <wxl> ↑ oh, you get the point.
[17:39]  * wxl should build that script and spell out the official untimely end for aptitude ;)
[17:41] <komputes> psivaa: sudo dmidecode -s system-product-name
[17:41] <komputes> psivaa: that should give you the model
[17:42] <komputes> psivaa: is this with the daily or the beta2 image?
[17:49] <kanliot> wxl i'm using reverse-depends
[17:52] <wxl> kanliot: not rdepends but apt-cache rdepends right? they're different
[17:53] <kanliot> reverse-depends is a python script you can install
[17:55] <wxl> not sure that's the same
[18:15] <wxl> phillw: ping
[18:16] <phillw> wxl: pong
[18:16] <psivaa> komputes, its MacMini5,1 and with today's daily image (20121005)
[18:16] <komputes> psivaa: and whats the Inspiron Model?
[18:17] <wxl> phillw: do you know if adam ever lurks on irc?
[18:17] <psivaa> komputes, that it Inspiron N4010
[18:19] <wxl> cuz now i REALLY need to pick his brain. this sound bug, at least on my end is getting REALLY interesting. i'm wondering if it's an OS bug at all.
[18:19] <phillw> wxl: he hates IRC with the same passion you do on forum areas.... A marrige forxed in fell :
[18:19] <phillw> )7
[18:19] <wxl> if it weren't for arild's case, i'd discount it entirely and say my sound is screwed.
[18:19] <wxl> hahahahhah i figured as such. oh well. ;)
[18:19] <phillw> *hell*
[18:20] <wxl> why linux rules: was going to convert my openoffice co-worker to libre office. only available downloads are torrents. wha?! apt, where are you when i need you?
[18:20] <wxl> (this is on windows btw)
[18:22] <phillw> wxl: becuase of his disabillity, he really prefers not to use IRC, he's not the only 'old-timer' who prefers forum / email.
[18:22] <wxl> phillw: didn't realize he had a disability
[18:22] <phillw> wxl: both of them are old timers.
[18:22] <wxl> otherly abled people often don't appear to have them ;)
[18:23] <phillw> if t=you
[18:23] <wxl> t?
[18:23] <wxl> undeclared variable
[18:25] <phillw> wxl: if you want a dedicated download for libre, I can grab it onto http://phillw.net/isos/ will take but a few minutes once you give me the link :)
[18:26] <wxl> don't worry about it, i just think it's stupid
[18:27] <wxl> biggest problems with os x/windows are lack of package management
[18:27] <phillw> wxl: you also may hate TOR, but they're getting an area on my server
[18:27] <wxl> app store is kind of getting there but still
[18:27] <wxl> tor, i.e. onion?
[18:28] <phillw> wxl: oniion
[18:28] <wxl> oh i don't hate tor. it's not 100% fun but i don't hate it. what you running on that server btw?
[18:28] <wxl> debian?
[18:30] <phillw> onion is ZNC, the new VM is for TOR
[18:31] <phillw> Tor have asked for a ubuntu-server install.
[18:31] <wxl> ah cool
[18:32] <wxl> the server i connect to runs debian which is fine (esp. considering it's free and a friend/customer runs it so i can ask him to install packages and he is happy to oblige) but sure wish it was canonical something sometimes
[18:32] <phillw> we had a chat and I mentioned I had A 12.04 ISO kicking about, they said that would do nicely.
[18:33] <phillw> my server runs CentOS, but the VM's under KVM don't actually give a **** :)
[18:34] <phillw> **** == the slightest problem...
[18:35] <wxl> kvm don't work on my main machine
[18:35] <phillw> wxl: how come?
[18:35] <wxl> i put 12.10 on the crappy dell desktop i got for free (yes, i am very adept at getting free machines and i'm working hard at figuring out what i need to barter for this 15" powerbook with the radeon chip)
[18:35] <wxl> we'll see if it works
[18:36] <wxl> but the main machine (free laptop) has a cpu that doesn't appear to support kvm
[18:36] <phillw> ahh, yes, there is the cpu issue.
[18:36] <wxl> yep, insurmountable really, esp. on a laptop
[18:36] <phillw> thankfully, piglet passed
[18:37] <wxl> also: centos?! you a card-carrying redhatter?
[18:37] <phillw> so, does oracle vBox work for you?
[18:37] <wxl> yep. qemu, too.
[18:37] <phillw> well, f
[18:38] <phillw> don't worry too much about KVM.
[18:38] <wxl> well i really *WANT* to use it
[18:38] <wxl> i'm all for the native solution
[18:38] <wxl> e.g apt rules. everything else sucks. ;)
[18:41] <phillw> wxl: I'm also a card carrying 100% result for Red Hat Certified Admin person. To me, CentOS is a tool, I can happiliy run lubuntu in it.
[18:44] <phillw> wxl: my other hard drive is lubuntu & happily runs CentOS... they share the same /home partition.... is there really that big a differene?? I say not and just keep quiet :)
[18:50] <wxl> phillw: well if there's any one thing going for red hat it's the certifications and the fact that there about the only globally-recognized linux cert out there.
[18:51] <wxl> i mean within the linux community, there are others that would fly but for joe blow company that happens to use linux? nope.
[18:51] <wxl> honestly i haven't used rh or any variant thereof in years
[18:53] <phillw> I'm a firm believer that the penguin is agnostic .... Let's concentrate on bug 1
[18:54] <phillw> bbs, just got to finish off the server for Tor
[18:55] <wxl> XD
[18:57] <phillw> hah, kill -9 on my own login doesn't help :)
[19:01] <wxl> :)
[19:01] <wxl> ouch colin declined it
[19:05] <phillw> he was never going to put a fudge in. it is for the upstream teams to sort the mess out.#
[19:05] <wxl> :)
[19:05] <wxl> i'm gonna confirm that later. i didnt' realize there were such good bugs
[19:06] <wxl> are you familiar with mixxx? open source dj software? qt interface?
[19:06] <wxl> whether or not you are, you get the general idea. waveforms, knobs, all sorts of gui crap going on, right?
[19:06] <wxl> with that in mind, grok this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mixxx/+bug/664369
[19:07] <phillw> that is why I SCREAMED at you guys to herd the bugs together.... Only then does PPC have a case for regression.
[19:07] <wxl> it's fun AND serious
[19:07] <phillw> wxl: welcome to the club :)
[19:08] <wxl> phillw: i am working feverishly on ppc and browbeating testers as much as possible to submit their findings in bug reports. it's a never ending battle even people who know better. *ahem* silverarrow *cough cough*
[19:08] <kanliot> its not screaming unless its all caps
[19:10] <phillw> wxl: that is why I needed a PPC person to take over. Between you and Adam, I am confident that it will happen
[19:10] <wxl> phillw: yep, we're both geeky enough. i just need more hardware to test on.
[19:10] <phillw> Colin has rightly said to 'upstream'.... get it bloody sorted.
[19:10] <wxl> must find a way to coerce my coworker out of this radeon 15"
[19:11] <wxl> she did say i could replace the hard drive temporarily but that's a lot of work
[19:11] <wxl> i MIGHT see if i can get a usb hard drive going but that could add other potential negative byproducts
[19:12] <phillw> wxl: I must pop off for a while to finalise the tor VM area for them.
[19:12] <wxl> i also have a g3 but that thing is messed up
[19:12] <wxl> ta
[19:12] <phillw> ping me if urgent
[19:12] <wxl> k
[19:53] <komputes> psivaa: I am getting a "Boot Error" when trying the amd64+mac daily on a mac mini
[19:55] <silverarrow> wxl?
[19:55] <wxl> silverarrow: yes, dear?
[19:55] <psivaa> komputes, that's strange, i was able to boot without any issues
[19:55] <silverarrow> I don`t understand the problem completely, really
[19:55] <wxl> you forgot the last word
[19:55] <wxl> "multimedia"
[19:55] <silverarrow> how does open firmware enter into it?
[19:55] <wxl> lshw, for powerpc, returns the open firmware device tree
[19:56] <wxl> in other words, it's supposed to tell you everything that the firmware sees
[19:56] <silverarrow> hmm, bad firmware?
[19:56] <wxl> that firmware, as i hope you know, is "upstream" of the operating system
[19:56] <wxl> in other words, if the firmware can't see it, the operating system can't
[19:56] <silverarrow> or was the some tricky function in 12.04 that made it bypass firmware?
[19:56] <wxl> on the other hand, perhaps the problem is lshw is limited
[19:57] <wxl> i certainly don't understand how sound works in open firmware but i know enough about how to hack around in it and i couldn't find any good info except that the bus for sound should be a pci component which goes back to my original notion that lspci should pick up on it if the firmware does
[19:59] <silverarrow> omg
[19:59] <silverarrow> I never say that
[19:59] <silverarrow> not sure where it came from
[20:02] <wxl> ?
[20:02] <wxl> oh SAW that
[20:03] <silverarrow> I have never even entered open firmware
[20:03] <wxl> don't advise
[20:03] <wxl> it uses forth which has a nasty syntax
[20:04] <wxl> for example, to find out the device tree you do:
[20:04] <wxl> dev / ls
[20:04] <silverarrow> I see,
[20:04] <wxl> which is transliterated like "devices of root list"
[20:04] <wxl> doesn't sound right
[20:04] <silverarrow> does icedtea work ?
[20:04]  * wxl shrugs
[20:04] <wxl> not there yet
[20:05] <silverarrow> I installed extra and the browser plugin, but java test cursor keeps circling
[20:05] <silverarrow> it worked in 12.04
[20:05] <silverarrow> I have to stop saying that
[20:06] <silverarrow> java and adobe flash gets a lot of hate these days
[20:06] <silverarrow> I need it though
[20:06] <wxl> you're forced by them to need it
[20:06] <wxl> i could do without them
[20:06] <wxl> they're annoying
[20:06] <wxl> that's like saying you need windows to play good games
[20:06] <silverarrow> well, I need my web-based bank
[20:07] <wxl> no, they need to use an open interface
[20:07] <silverarrow> it is the login code and bank ID which is java run
[20:08] <wxl> my bank doesn't use that garbage
[20:08] <wxl> unnecessary
[20:08] <silverarrow> it is the most widely used too, so we just have to live with it for years still
[20:09] <silverarrow> alsamixer and sound turned out more tricky than I thought
[20:17] <silverarrow> my bank works fine
[20:17] <silverarrow> fast and easy
[20:17] <silverarrow> including java
[20:18] <wxl> in the past i've had few issues with icedtea
[20:18] <wxl> except for SERIOUS apps e.g. logmein
[20:18] <wxl> i usually just install sun java
[20:23] <wxl> phillw: thx for the reminder. i need to grab 12.04
[20:26] <phillw> wxl: most likely quicker to grab from http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu/ (it even knows zsync)
[20:26] <wxl> phillw: too late XD
[20:26] <wxl> i need to fix my script to account for md5sum -c
[20:27] <phillw> wxl: Well, IIRC, you and unit193 are haggling over the script?
[20:28] <wxl> if [[ -n "$(md5sum -c MD5SUMS 2>&1 | grep OK ]] → success
[20:28] <wxl> i need to get to that at some point
[20:28] <wxl> too busy
[20:28] <silverarrow> sun java is better than icedtea?
[20:28] <wxl> and besides look at that crappy syntax error-ridden shorthand yikes
[20:28] <phillw> you have ~ 2 months
[20:28] <wxl> silverarrow: it's what java is. but it's not open.
[20:29] <wxl> or at least not free
[20:29] <silverarrow> firefox crashes on BankID test, immediately, is it java or firefox crash?
[20:29] <wxl> try in another browser
[20:29] <silverarrow> midori crashes too
[20:30] <silverarrow> there is hardly any much better browser than firefox
[20:30] <silverarrow> just different or slightly better in some areas
[20:30] <wxl> xxxtermrules
[20:31] <silverarrow> phillw: did you manage to open alsamixer in vm?
[20:31] <wxl> also read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IcedTea for why icedtea over sun/oracle java
[20:32] <silverarrow> Iced tea, works with my bank, I am happy about that
[20:33] <wxl> i'd say in general icedtea > java in regards to freedom but not always in regards to function
[20:33] <wxl> depends on how RMS you want to be
[21:23] <kanliot> +z-+
[21:42] <silverarrow> wxl, what do we do with the sound issues ? it is horror
[21:43] <wxl> patience grasshopper
[21:43] <wxl> these things take time
[21:43] <wxl> besides you don't need sound to access your bank
[21:43] <wxl> so shush it XD
[21:43] <wxl> testing doesn't mean everything works perfect
[21:44] <silverarrow> true, and I have sound elsewhere, but I am reading up on this
[21:44] <wxl> it means you work hard to identify where it doesn't and provide information to those who can make a difference while exercising patience that they can't fix everything immediately
[21:44] <silverarrow> Yeah, I will give it a rest