[06:36] tried to discuss with Kheo in PM [06:37] he just wants to argue that asking every five seconds, then saying help me in the intervening seconds is A-OK [07:04] * [die-uh-ree-uh] (~jen@118-27-66-68.dynamic.cm-pool.d-pcomm.com): Jen <--- nick seems familiar [07:07] I almost want to ask them to change nick [07:07] not sure it is worth the effort [07:07] hah [07:08] wonder if they know mypaint is to be used with wacom tablets [07:08]

yes I am, I unplugged it [07:08] D'oh! [07:09] not familiar with tablets at all [07:10] yeah, not having it plugged in, might be a hindrance [08:58] !ot > Zaeyx [09:13] !appeals > Zaeyx [09:14] does that work if he's not in a channel with a bot? [09:14] nope [09:15] heh OK [09:15] he'll be here any minute [09:15] Please handle as you see fit [09:15] okie dokie [09:16] too busy rambling at me in PM to read the !appeals I pasted for him [09:17] sounds like a cousin/brother/flatmate of Kheo [09:20] I haven't seen Star Trek TOS Trouble with Tribbles episode in a long time [09:29] Zaeyx, hi [09:30] How is it going! Quick issue... [09:30] sure [09:31] Got booted from #ubuntu for "being off topic" and to be fair I'm super new to IRC so getting an understanding of common practices is my current task. But I wasn't off topic... [09:31] let me check the logs, just a moment [09:31] When I explained how I was on topic the admin just told me he "didn't need a lesson from (me)you in GNOME" [09:32] Zaeyx: #ubuntu is very problem solving oriented channel [09:32] Take your time, this is all rather fascinating. [09:33] it's not even for general chatter about Ubuntu and its features [09:33] Absolutely, I was helping a guy with a question on guis [09:33] or lack of them [09:33] I'm not sure how talking about Gnome 3 was helping a guy [09:33] I was trying to explain it to him, perhaps I'm too long winded for IRC as I said I'm really new (2 hours) [09:34] generally it also helps in #ubuntu if you address the person you're explaining stuff to [09:34] But he had a question on shells specific all windows.x shell mod "light step" [09:34] Zaeyx: are you aware that if you type the first few letters of a persons nickname and press the tab key, it usually autocompletes the nickname? [09:35] He wanted to reproduce that in ubuntu [09:35] I am on a tablet... eeekkk [09:35] which tablet? [09:35] Lol why would that matter? [09:36] because if you're on Android I can suggest some options that might help you with nickcomplete on IRC [09:36] I type like a barbarian on it though [09:36] Yeah it's droid [09:38] depending on what client you are using, Swiftkey keyboard has a tabulator that you can use for nickcomplete [09:38] you see, IRC has some conventions that make it easier to follow the conversation [09:38] if you don't address the person you are talking to, it's difficult to judge if you're ontopic or offtopic [09:38] I'm mostly interested in if I actually violated the code of conduct for the channel. And let me be clear, I'm not trying to get the admin in Trouble or anything... just I thought I was helping and his lack of understanding on an issue led to this. >.> [09:39] and #ubuntu being a big channel it is, it's very strict on oftopic [09:39] offtopic, even [09:39] Gotcha... [09:39] in fact, #ubuntu is the biggest channel in freenode [09:40] I mean, let's face it... this is the internet... if I want back in... I can get in... [09:40] yes, and you probably would be kicked and banned again [09:40] But I don't wanna be causing trouble... and I don't get what I did wrong. [09:40] so please don't do that. [09:41] Lol, what conventions do you have to stop me though... everything can be spoofed. [09:41] Point is I'm a good guy... I want to help [09:41] don't bother [09:41] I thought I was helping... [09:41] And banned... >.> [09:42] I have to go AFK, try to behave and be nice to each other [09:42] you were on a many line explanation of GNOME and editorializing on UNITY [09:42] which *is* offtopic [09:43] Unity is also a shell... the current Ubuntu one... [09:43] not the point here [09:43] I had to reference it while explaining my preference I gnome as the solution to his problem [09:43] That's logical... [09:43] In* [09:43] not at that length, no [09:43] and when asked to stop, you should stop [09:43] So that's the question was I saying too much? [09:44] you were being offtopic [09:44] I saw him saying off topic.. and being new to IRC assumed it was about reading my things wrong... [09:44] I wasn't off topic... >.> [09:44] sure you were. it's not up for debate [09:44] Perhaps I elaborated more than was desired... [09:45] it's a very strict support only channel [09:45] I would love to understand this logic behind me being off topic... [09:45] I understand that. [09:45] not a let me explain the history and features of gnome3 channel [09:45] I was "supporting" [09:46] OK see, I feel like I didn't do that [09:46] not in a helpful manner [09:46] well we did [09:46] I was trying to explain what it was briefly [09:46] and since we moderate the channels, that's not up for debate [09:46] So he would understand what to do [09:47] See this attitude of "not up for debate" [09:47] Zaeyx: as Myrtti explained, #ubuntu has to be extremely strict in what is on and off topic. we only allow technical support questions in #ubuntu, and we try to keep any discussion or opinions in #ubuntu-offtopic instead [09:47] It really is [09:47] I understand... [09:47] I want to follow the code of conduct [09:47] As I said I'm home of the good guys [09:48] One* stupid auto incorrect [09:48] But I feel, though longw [09:48] Long winded, I was on topic. [09:48] ok [09:49] you wish to debate this [09:49] Zaeyx: you were offering an opinion, rather than a technical solution to the users question [09:49] But long windedness in the code [09:49] I didn't realize that wasn't allowed... >.> [09:49] if you said "you can get that feature by 1) ..." then that would be on topic [09:50] It was logical to include my opinion considering I was leading him away from unity towards gnome [09:50] He needed a reason [09:50] I tried to quickly offer it [09:50] yes, but that wasn't the question they asked [09:50] I feel I've been very clear on this issue [09:50] What was then? [09:51] "2012-10-06T08:51:54 you were able to right click , and have a menu come up , with folders you had designated as the parent folders, if you hovered the mouse over one, its contents would show, and you could hover the mouse over the next folder, you would do this until yo got down to your file" [09:51] Correct, go Google it sir! [09:51] they wanted to know if that could be done in Ubuntu, and how [09:52] Lightstep is a shell in windows9.x [09:52] Other people thought he meant terminal by shell [09:52] I explained what we were really talking about [09:53] And was about to tell him t go learn bash scripting [09:53] When ... ban [09:53] >.> [09:53] some thought they meant a shell, others were asking for clarification [09:53] I clarified and got banned [09:54] no, you started talking bout how "Gnome 3 is as sexay as it gets ;)" [09:54] So sorry if I don't remember exactly what was said I don't have the record in front of me [09:54] !1984 [09:54] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [09:54] Exactly, there is no better shell [09:54] No lightstep [09:54] which is opinion [09:55] Zaeyx: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/06/%23ubuntu.html#t08:52 [09:55] I proceeded to work on explaining how GNOME could perform those functions [09:55] #ubuntu is publicly logged [09:55] Lol kthanx [09:55] See, new to Irc... [09:55] Always the trouble makers [09:57] then brady asked you if they could run the Gnome shell "concurrently with ubuntu", and you seemed to just ignore that question and carry on offering up opinions to the channel [09:58] Exactly [09:58] Was of the long winded answer? [09:58] It* [09:58] once asked to stop, you then stared posting the gnome.org website, for some reason [09:58] There is nothing in the code of conduct about long winded answers? [09:59] I felt all the information offered up was relevant... [09:59] the code of conduct is only part of the rules in #ubuntu [09:59] !guidelines [09:59] I was trying to teach... [09:59] The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines [09:59] Do they include long windedness? [09:59] Is it so hard to believe I posted a link to gnome when I was explaining gnome? [10:00] XDDDD [10:00] look at the "Language and Subject" and "When helping: be helpful" parts [10:00] OK, I will one moment. [10:00] you posted it, which is ok, then put "jk" and posted it _again_ [10:01] Cause I spelled it wrong on my stupid tablet [10:01] It is two different links [10:01] no one asked for the link though [10:01] According to the guidelines I should be posting links [10:02] And explaining things [10:02] That is what the be helpful part talks about [10:02] who asked for the Gnome3 link? [10:02] If you go read it [10:02] If you go to the guidelines [10:03] I was following the be helpful rule by posting links to information instead of saying rtfm [10:03] Or "Google it" [10:03] to whom? [10:03] Brady [10:03] I was explaining gnome to him [10:03] XD [10:03] they didn't ask for the link, or to have gnome explained to them [10:03] He did actually [10:03] they wanted to enable a specific feature [10:04] His question was on finding an environment similar to light step in ubuntu [10:04] "still dont know if they can run concurrently.." was the last thing they said before you posted the link [10:04] I provided an answer [10:04] where? [10:04] I was getting to that as fast as I could type [10:04] Are you guys trolling me? [10:05] Cause I can't imagine you are all really like this? XDDDD [10:05] you were posting several lines, seemingly to no one in particular, and not answering any specific question [10:05] Your answer was not helpful, it was your personal opinion and it was off topic for #ubuntu, you say you want to be helpful and that you are one of the good guys but you continue to argue that you are right when 4 of us have told you that you are not. [10:05] So I was long winded [10:05] That isn't wrong [10:06] As mods do I have to tell you guys to go read the guidelines [10:06] Goodness [10:06] in #ubuntu, keep thinks as concise as possible [10:06] OK I felt I was [10:06] Again [10:06] If it was being judged as too long [10:06] By another party [10:06] So their opinion [10:07] Cause I am new [10:07] I.m probably a bad judge of that [10:07] They should have told me that [10:07] Instead of claiming I was off topic [10:07] Because they didn't understand the question [10:08] And I pmed the mod [10:08] Don't know of you guys can see that? [10:08] He was very abrupt and rude [10:09] Not trying to get him in trouble [10:09] Just saying [10:09] but the way you were answering the question isn't really appropriate for #ubuntu, that channel is often extremely busy and people find it hard to follow [10:09] They have seen the PM and I was not the one cursing at you. [10:09] Good sweet [10:09] that's why we ask that you try and keep your answers/question as concise as possible, and on as few lines as possible [10:09] There is no guidelines in pm man... [10:10] So someone could have maybe done their job and explained that? [10:10] Anyway I don't believe you are new to irc but assuming you are and only have 2 days experience...The 4 ops who have spoken to you have 40+ years combined experience. [10:10] You were off topic. end of story. [10:10] Instead of misunderstanding what was going on [10:10] Lol [10:10] take 2 days out of #ubuntu and come back then. [10:11] #ubuntu is not the place to explain that, as that would itself be off topic [10:11] You don't believe I'm new to IRC? [10:11] Seriously... [10:11] Are you guys all like this? [10:11] This is logged too right? [10:11] Cause you all put on a bad face for ubuntu [10:12] I am new [10:12] To [10:12] see you in two day Zaeyx [10:12] IRC [10:12] come back and we can discuss then [10:12] I will be back tonight [10:12] ;) [10:12] and we are trying to explain the rules to you, but you don't want to listen [10:12] not a good idea [10:12] If I want [10:12] that reflects poorly on you, not us [10:12] I just want you to knoe [10:12] ok [10:12] Know that this isn't one sided [10:12] That's all [10:13] Honestly I could care less about all this... but it is bugging me [10:13] so come back in 48 hrs to discuss [10:13] Lol [10:13] Nah [10:13] See [10:13] When one side [10:13] Tries to hold power over another [10:14] otherwise the ban will stand [10:14] Bad things happen [10:14] it really helps with the legibility if you don't hit enter all the time [10:14] you can do as you will, but please note that evading bans is a violation of freenode network policy, which you agreed to by using the network [10:14] Omg [10:14] not just #ubuntu [10:14] if you don't agree with our rules, there are other channel on freenode [10:14] and if you don't agree with freenode rules, there are other IRC networks [10:14] This is the internet dude [10:14] you're not forced to use #ubuntu here [10:15] You're grabbing at the wind [10:15] And I think you know that [10:15] Again, just not one sided... ;) [10:16] You deciding I'm wrong is an opinion not fact [10:16] And if you go read the darn rules [10:16] you're not willing to discuss what happened, think it's "one sided" if you want, but we attempted to actually talk to you and you decided that we're crushing your rights or something [10:16] Maybe you see what I'm seeing maybe you don't [10:17] Oh o this has nothing to do with rights [10:17] Psssssshhhhh [10:17] I didn't decide anything, I was talking to you [10:17] It's your channel [10:17] you decided everyone was wrong, and you were right [10:17] that's an unhelpful stance [10:17] So we're even? [10:17] even in what sense? [10:18] I have said many times... in this convoy alone... I'm new here maybe I was wrong... But I know I was on topic [10:18] Convo* [10:18] And someone even WS all like "You're not new here" [10:18] That's horrible [10:18] XDDDDD [10:18] So nprofessional [10:19] Unprofessional* [10:19] everyone who manages #ubuntu is a volunteer [10:19] Thanks for doing that dudes [10:19] Still [10:19] You're representing a company [10:19] no, we don't [10:20] Don't what? [10:20] represent a company [10:20] Sure seems to me that you do... [10:20] everyone who manages #ubuntu is a volunteer [10:21] we represent ourselves, and the Ubuntu community [10:21] So... who holds your leash? [10:21] no, actually we don't. #ubuntu operators represent a minor part of the volunteer community that resides in the freenode #ubuntu channel that have volunteered their effort to make the biggest channel of freenode somewhat usable [10:21] the IRC Council, and the Community Council [10:21] OK cool, I was wrong [10:22] the councils are also volunteer based entities [10:22] I'm cool with admitting I was wrong if I believe it is true [10:22] Can you guys do the same? [10:23] we have no issue with that, but if you believe we do you have already been told who to contact [10:23] I mean heck... if you can't do that.. at least take the constructive criticism of "this has been handled poorly." [10:23] I got you [10:24] sure, criticism is always approved. [10:24] I'd love to see it... cause as it stands I'm banned for doing something I didn't do [10:24] this is a circular argument now [10:24] And maybe I was "long winded" that was explained anywhere [10:24] I wasn't off topic [10:24] Any fool can see that imo [10:24] I have explained that already, you reject our argument, so there's little point continuing [10:25] then we have a differing view on what is on and what is offtopic [10:25] So that should be explained [10:25] I am new here [10:25] You think it's cool to treat new members like this... [10:25] looking at the backlog it's been explained a few times already [10:26] And I refuted every way it was explained but if you can't be convinced... [10:26] You're all just doing the same thing in arguement you accuse me of [10:26] I have explained that already, you reject our argument, so there's little point continuing [10:26] so, let me recap the situation [10:26] Being close mined [10:27] Go for it [10:27] you were explaining stuff to a person, but didn't address it so it was difficult to judge if you were just having a monologue about it [10:27] you were told to stop, but you didn't [10:27] Noon mistake [10:27] Noob [10:27] Thought a not was reading my stuff wrong [10:27] Bot [10:28] you were told to stop but you didn't, and you were quieted [10:28] I was addressed once [10:28] Atleast that I saw [10:28] so far we agree on what has happened? [10:29] I was not violating what I was asked to stop [10:29] As and such had nothing to stop [10:29] and that is where the opinions differ [10:29] fine. [10:29] Obviously [10:29] But if you read the rules [10:29] You will find [10:29] That I am right [10:29] could you please stop hitting enter all the time [10:29] it really makes it hard to read [10:30] At least the rules you provided to me... yes I can try lol... I type like William shatner [10:31] I gotta give you guys points for sticking this one out though! [10:32] the guidelines discuss the subject on a general level, as we have a lot of channels that have different subjects and topics. However, the fact is, that #ubuntu is strictly support only, and usually discussing the merits of different WM's and Ubuntu features is discouraged, as the channel is so big and hard to follow for the noobs that come for support issues [10:33] Right! No I totally get you... like I said I thought I was possibly being too long winded [10:34] I'm a noob here... just with a whole load of technical knowledge [10:34] Thought I could help out a bit, wanted to try... [10:35] I still argue that the admin didn't understand what I was talking about. [10:35] Wrong or right that was the impression I got [10:35] the time for discussion is past [10:35] come back in 48 hrs [10:36] Cause as soon as I explained how I as on topic [10:36] He shifted to different accusations [10:36] perhaps 48 hrs is too soon [10:36] XDDDDDDD [10:36] so shall we say 72? [10:36] It's like a challenge... goodness guys... ask nicely and I'll leave [10:37] please exit [10:37] But all this is just gonna get you pwned [10:37] Sure [10:37] Zaeyx: we have tried to explain it to you, you don't want to accept it, I don't think we're going to get anywhere right now. you may see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for appealing, or come back in a couple of days [10:37] Thanks for chatting [10:37] ;) [10:37] bye [10:37] I like Simpson the most [10:37] sorry, I had to go extinguish a fire [10:37] How do I leave [10:37] OK just kick me [10:38] XDDDD [10:38] /exit [10:38] Part [10:38] no way he'll ban evade [13:32] Guest79351: In that case, install Windows p5. [13:32] [13:34] @mark #ubuntu kenj (~smuxi@host-92-29-81-88.as13285.net) posting links to porn and telling users to install windows 95 [13:34] The operation succeeded. [14:19] In ubottu, allu3 said: !omgubuntu is a ubuntu related blog. [14:22] no it isn't [15:47] ah this guy [15:50] his quirky typing style, and he wants it declared a bug [15:50] heh [16:56] :| [16:56] why does i got directeded here [17:37] In #ubuntu, ardchoille said: ubottu: threefinger is three finger tap middle click is disabled by default in 12.04+ since it conflicts with some of the gestures, but: synclient TapButton3=2; will reenable it [17:39] In ubottu, ardchoille said: touchpad is For a comprehensive Synaptics Touchpad guide, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad See also !threefinger [18:29] !ucp [18:29] Ubuntu Certified Professional is a training course for systems administrators who need to deploy Ubuntu in an office environment. More: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/training/course-descriptions/certified-professional [18:29] Does anybody know if that page has changed? its giving a 404 error [18:35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Certified_Professional for some info. :P [18:36] I looked at that, 2 out of the 3 links at the bottom are dead links [18:36] Its as though the certified professional part of the ubuntu.com website has vanished [18:37] I can't find any reference to it thats current [18:37] Yeah, Canonical blog post links to that page too. [18:40] http://www.jpl.com.br%2Fubuntu%2Fubuntu.certified.professional.study.guide.pdf [18:42] DJones: they're dead links because the Canonical website folks are required to change website paths every release and a half. They're also not allowed to put in redirects from the old content to the new content. [18:43] That would explain it [18:43] DJones: I don't have any non-empirical evidence of this, but that's the only explanation that doesn't involve complete incompetence. [18:44] Heh [18:44] I was beginning to wonder whether the ubuntu certified professional training had been quietly dropped [18:46] DJones: I can't find any reference to it on LPI's site [18:47] That's probably the authority as to whether it exists === Fuchs_ is now known as Fuchs === kloeri_ is now known as kloeri === _Dave2_ is now known as Dave2 === tips48 is now known as Amaranth