[00:00] <ali1234> if you only need a pin number and some person details you can just guess that
[00:01] <ali1234> no need for phishing, though no reason not to do that too
[00:01] <ali1234> trojan, yes
[00:01] <ali1234> and just keylog everything
[00:01] <ali1234> but if that were the only problem, why take it off line?
[00:02] <penguin42> ali1234: It's possible it turned out to be an overly easy way for people to get the cash after they'd got the details?
[00:02] <ali1234> yeah
[00:03] <ali1234> but how could they fix it?
[00:03] <ali1234> if they're just going to reduce the limit why take it offline?
[00:03] <ali1234> weren't they having problems for the past few days actually? or was that hsbc?
[00:03] <penguin42> ali1234: I think there was a beeb report about some banks having issues
[00:04] <ali1234> seems very suspicious to me
[00:23] <bootinfdsds> ...bored outta my brains .. anyone got any news ??
[00:32] <ali1234> someone proposed to put the teletext font i made into xbmc
[00:33] <ali1234> except i didn't make it, i just converted it from bitmap to ttf
[00:34] <ali1234> also i had an idea to adapt my teletext recovery software for old floppy disks
[00:34] <ali1234> but i don't know enough about how they are formatted
[00:35] <penguin42> ali1234: Teletext recovery software? And what format of flippies?
[00:35] <ali1234> teletext recovery from vhs
[00:35] <ali1234> it's possible :)
[00:35] <penguin42> hoho - OCR'd ?
[00:35] <ali1234> no
[00:36] <penguin42> oh from the header?
[00:36] <ali1234> recovering the information from the VBI
[00:36] <penguin42> yeh I guess later VHS machines probably have enough bandwidth to do it
[00:36] <ali1234> the VHS has lower horizontal resolution so common wisdom says nyquist
[00:36] <penguin42> I remember though our TV couldn't normally get the teletext while playing from vhs
[00:36] <ali1234> but there's a catch. nyquist is for analogue signals and VBI is digital
[00:36] <ali1234> a TV cannot do it
[00:37] <penguin42> Why?
[00:37] <ali1234> a VHS has about 3-4MHz bandwidth, and teletext is 6.something MHz
[00:38] <penguin42> ok, so how do you recover it from vhs?
[00:38] <ali1234> so the teletext signal is binary
[00:38] <ali1234> when you put binary through a low pass you get a gaussian blur
[00:38] <ali1234> so i take the signal from the VHS, and guess what the original was, blur it, and compare
[00:39] <ali1234> then refine until i get a "best match"
[00:39] <penguin42> how do you define 'best'?
[00:39] <ali1234> this works quite well but is extremely slow
[00:39] <ali1234> best is least mean squared difference
[00:40] <ali1234> so the first few bytes of teletext line are always the same so i know what those are
[00:40] <ali1234> they are 10101010101010101110010
[00:40] <penguin42> ah right, but there isn't any parity or anything in the rest of the line is there?
[00:41] <ali1234> so i try that + 1 and that + 0, gaussian blur both, compare to input signal, take the best, then repeat for the next byte
[00:41] <ali1234> yes there is parity too and i take that into account. i don't actualyl test single bits. i test every possible value of thenext byte, rejecting anything hat would be an invalid byte
[00:42] <ali1234> i scan over the whole line multiple times, three passes usually yields no further improvement
[00:42] <ali1234> this isn't perfect but teletext cycles so then i combine similar lines, taking the most frequent character in lines which are "similar"
[00:42] <penguin42> ali1234: Almost sounds like the PRML disk encoding type of work?
[00:42] <ali1234> where "similar" is defined by an extremely complex heuristic that needs to be hand tweaked for each recording
[00:42] <ali1234> not familiar with that
[00:43] <ali1234> it has similarities with stuff like barcode reading from blurred camera images
[00:43] <ali1234> cos teletext is like a barcode... black and white bars of varying thickness
[00:43] <penguin42> ali1234: So when you say floppy recovery you mean recovering floppies from a fuzzy scan?
[00:44] <ali1234> yeah. actually scan the signal as analogue, and then do the same thing. qwork out what binary data would look most like the actual read data after convolution
[00:44] <ali1234> so for like 20 year old floppies that are not readable in a normal drive
[00:44] <penguin42> ali1234: I suspect the type of degradation on floppy is somewhat different - it's probably more something that's bleed from neighbouring tracks?
[00:45] <penguin42> (or from the other side?)
[00:45] <ali1234> perhaps. there's no repetition either
[00:45] <ali1234> and i would have to heavily modify a floppy to read "slowly"
[00:45] <penguin42> and there is ecc
[00:45] <ali1234> i use a wintv to sample the VBI and it oversamples the VCR signal by about 5x
[00:46] <penguin42> ali1234: You could try using a ferrofluid and microscope to read it instead
[00:46] <ali1234> well, this is really an automated version of that :)
[00:46] <penguin42> I meant for floppies
[00:46] <ali1234> the idea is basicallyjust oversample and then develop heuristics
[00:47] <ali1234> i got some results: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/19961225/
[00:47] <bootinfdsds> http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/7128/mark-shuttleworth
[00:47] <ali1234> i made the font for that too
[00:47] <ali1234> that's from about 2 hours of VHS, which took a month to process
[00:48] <ali1234> nothing at all was visible with a normal TV
[00:48] <penguin42> impressive
[00:48] <ali1234> the result is basically perfect
[00:48] <ali1234> there's even more tricks though
[00:49] <ali1234> common page headers are fuzzy matched for example
[00:49] <penguin42> yeh or when the same page comes around multiple times you might try matching
[00:49] <ali1234> yeah it does do that
[00:49] <penguin42> neat
[00:49] <ali1234> it's all under vhs-teletext on github
[00:50] <penguin42> ali1234: Sounds like a job for a gpu to do multiple tries in parallel?
[00:50] <ali1234> yes very much so
[00:50] <ali1234> i tried but i couldn't get it to run faster
[00:51] <ali1234> but i've never really done opencl etc
[00:51] <penguin42> me neither
[00:51] <ali1234> it's all done with numpy and scipy which are pretty fast and optimized from what i gather
[00:51] <ali1234> maybe one day they'll just use opencl natively
[00:51] <penguin42> anything with py in the name seems unlikely to be fast
[00:52] <ali1234> well yes, but numpy/scipy is specifically designed to make array operations/convolutions etc really fast
[00:52] <penguin42> anyway, bed!
[00:52] <penguin42> nn
[05:13] <recaptchacapcha> asdf
[05:13] <recaptchacapcha> gdf
[05:13] <recaptchacapcha> adfg
[05:13] <recaptchacapcha> hdg
[05:13] <recaptchacapcha> df
[05:14] <recaptchacapcha> hgfd
[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:22] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:23] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:23] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[05:23] <recaptchacapcha> SDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[06:12] <MartijnVdS> !ops
[06:12] <MartijnVdS> oh he's gone already
[07:27] <christel> oh charming
[07:27] <christel> (good morning)
[07:52] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:06] <MooDoo> morning all :D
[08:09] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:13] <AlanBell> morning
[08:20] <MooDoo> morning AlanBell
[08:23] <christel> MooDoo! \o/
[08:25] <MooDoo> christel: <3 o/
[08:27] <christel> how are you? long time no taaalk
[08:34] <MooDoo> christel: yes i'm fine, lost my way a little with linux, but trying to get back into it slowely
[08:47] <popey> morning
[08:52] <christel> :)
[08:52] <christel> lo popey
[08:55] <MooDoo> morning alan
[09:01] <jacobw> morning
[09:04] <MooDoo> popey: i'm guessing you don't have to shave your hair off now then ;)
[09:04] <popey> :)
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> popey: today's sound track (you liked Akufen, right? :)): http://open.spotify.com/album/4qzJV2qpd93F2Y5SkCfo8K
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> This has some similarities
[09:16]  * jacobw watches the stephen fry interview
[09:17] <popey> listening, thanks MartijnVdS
[09:21] <jacobw> ha "it's amazing how dumb some people are"
[09:27] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:45] <jacobw> hey brobostigon
[09:45] <jacobw> how's it going?
[09:45] <brobostigon> jacobw: ji, not bad, waking up, and uyou?
[09:46] <jacobw> normal sunday here
[10:01]  * MartijnVdS did some Sunday javascripting
[10:01] <brobostigon> jacobw: ok :)
[10:14] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: ++
[10:15] <kingcrimson> How can I remove a package and all of its configuration?
[10:15] <kingcrimson> And then reinstall the package cleanly?
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> you'll have to remove the config in your home dir manually
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: "apt-get purge package_name_here"
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: that removes the package + all config
[10:16] <kingcrimson> Hm - I've tried that.  It's for kerberos (Don't ask I'm just messing about!)
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> kingcrimson: dpkg -S /etc/config_file_thats_broken
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> that shows the package the config file is in
[10:17] <kingcrimson> OK
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> you can then purge + reinstall that..
[10:17] <kingcrimson> Thanks I'll try that
[10:24] <brobostigon> !info ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[10:25] <brobostigon> !info ubuntu-gnome-desktop quantal
[10:27] <kingcrimson> Ah whoops my own fault - there is a seperate package for config...
[10:44] <kingcrimson> Why do users in ubuntu have the same group name as user name?  Wouldn't it make sense to put them in the users group?
[10:47] <jacobw> kingcrimson: the named group is the primary group only, a user can be any number of secondary groups
[10:47] <kingcrimson> But why have a group for every user?
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> so a user doesn't inadvertently create files readable for others
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> mostly
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> (that can be solved with umask, but one tiny mistake..)
[10:48] <jacobw> i've read that reason and another reason that makes even more sense that i've forgotten :(
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/09/using_user_private_groups.html
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-9-Manual/ref-guide/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/Deployment_Guide-en-US/s1-users-groups-private-groups.html
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> Those are wikipedia refs
[10:49] <kingcrimson> Which wiki article?
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_permissions#User_private_group
[10:50] <kingcrimson> Thanks
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> When each user has their own group, umask can be set to 0002, which makes all files group-writeable
[10:50] <kingcrimson> I'll have a read
[10:50] <kingcrimson> Right
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> so if you add two users to a third group (to collaborate on something, say), the files they make can be read _and written_ by both users
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> without fiddling with the umask or chmod all the time
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: ^ that seems to be the other reason?
[10:51] <jacobw> yeah, that's it
[10:51] <kingcrimson> Hmm that's a good reason
[10:52] <kingcrimson> Problem solved - I was just scratching my head and wondering why I shouldn't just change all users primary group to users
[10:52] <jacobw> you can grant access to all your files by adding another user to your group
[10:52] <kingcrimson> (I only a sysadmin at home so it doesn't really matter but worth thinking about)
[10:53] <jacobw> for one user only, or more than one user, but not all users at the same time unintentionally
[10:58] <jacobw> hmm, i've never tried dia before, it's actually quite good
[11:29] <brobostigon> nomnom, ham and goats cheese toasties.:)
[14:15]  * AlanBell updates http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[14:15] <AlanBell> now taking pre-orders for 12.10
[14:16] <penguin42> AlanBell: But what are you going to get the chicken?
[14:16] <AlanBell> probably Ubuntu Server again
[14:17] <penguin42> AlanBell: I guess they run a flock rather than a cluster or cloud?
[14:28] <AlanBell> Bug #1063043
[14:37] <penguin42> AlanBell: Marked it high
[14:37] <Azelphur> Anyone here in UK with a three "Ultimate Internet SIM 200" plan? does tethering work for you without the bolt-on? :P
[14:40] <SuperEngineer> watch out, watch out, there's a /me about ;)
[14:40] <AlanBell> thanks penguin42, I have just reproduced it
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: for other reasons, I was thinking of a reporting similar bug re 12.04 installer
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> it will not allow full control on a netbook due to sceen size vs dialogue size at the "something else" choice for partitioning
[14:46] <AlanBell> alt+click drag to move the top of the installer window off the top of the screen
[14:46] <AlanBell> possibly
[14:47] <SuperEngineer> try getting someone to do that while you're going through the install remotely
[14:48] <AlanBell> yeah, netbook screen resolution just isn't supported very well
[14:48] <SuperEngineer> however - user [dearest sis] is v. happy with her "new" 12.04 netbook [was running 10.04]
[14:49] <AlanBell> Bug 741869 is a total pita
[14:52] <AlanBell> dunno how people at Canonical cope with that one
[14:54] <SuperEngineer> especially when Unity [deliberately?] kills Gnome-Do  <super-space> in normal mode, let alone a VM
[14:54]  * SuperEngineer slaps own wrist
[15:02] <SuperEngineer> Has anyone heard anything up to date [beyond April'12 ] re Gwibber plug-in for G+ ?
[15:03] <SuperEngineer> Either I can no longer summon my google-foo or my lp-foo or there *is* no more news
[15:03] <AlanBell> I guess that is waiting for a G+ writeable API
[15:03] <SuperEngineer> cheers AlanBell
[15:35] <ali1234> that bug still isn't fixed?
[15:40] <Laney> http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/
[15:40] <Laney> seems stuck
[15:41] <Azelphur> how comes I have no idea who the person who is #2 is
[15:41] <Azelphur> sorry, #3
[15:42] <popey> i paused it
[15:42] <popey> pisg was eating the box alive
[15:42] <Azelphur> ah
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> aww
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> we talk too much :)
[15:42] <Azelphur> indeed
[15:45] <Azelphur> does anyone know if three currently employs any tethering detection methods? :p
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: come to .nl, net neutrality law forbids tethering detection ;)
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> well not detection.. but acting on it ;)
[15:50] <penguin42> wow !
[15:51] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I want to go to there :(
[15:51] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: But do you still get cheap 'unlimited' mobile contracts?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, but we didn't get those before either
[15:52] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: When providers got rid of those plans, and announced further bans on Skype/voip stuff, politicians suddenly acted :)
[15:52] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm, see I get a 20GBP/6 months payg phone payment for internet, that limits certain types of stuff to 500MB/month but says unlimited web
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> Someone complained to the "advertising authority" about the "Unlimited*" plans some are offering again now
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> because they're "Unlimited as long as you don't use a lot"
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> which is.. strange
[15:53] <penguin42> yeh they're a bit odd; this one is very badly defined but seems OK for my use; and at that cost I can't really argue
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> I have a 400MB plan, but I tend to use only 250-300
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> WOohoo, libvirt + kvm + a bunch of bridges = fun
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> I can now create a VM that can only see one VLAN
[16:03] <penguin42> yeh that's the idea
[16:04] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Probably be a good thing to do a write up of that setup
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> I had to poke around with ebtables to get the "default" vlan bridge to work (the "untagged" one)
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: hm. yeah
[16:17]  * MartijnVdS revives his blogger page
[16:20] <Laney> gah
[16:20] <Laney> if I have a USB stick in (to boot from), my computer ignores all keypresses at bios
[16:20] <penguin42> Laney: Sigh, I've seen a machine do that
[16:21] <penguin42> Laney: I had to go hunting for a PS/2 keyboard last week and realised the only one was my own Model M, all the old keyboards had been chucked
[16:21] <Laney> uncool
[16:22] <penguin42> yeh
[16:22] <Laney> could be worse than a model m though
[16:22]  * Laney will just burn a DVD
[16:22] <Laney> want to test if the installer will be able to assemble my mdraid volume
[16:22]  * Laney eyes xnox
[16:22] <penguin42> Laney: Well the problem was I'd already burnt a CD and a DVD and both had bad blocks on them annoyingly far into the install, so then went to thumd drive
[16:22] <penguin42> Laney: What hardware ?
[16:22] <Laney> it's a p877-v
[16:23] <penguin42> oh completely different
[16:29] <Laney> ffs, would you believe that i only have cd-rs and not dvds :(
[16:29] <penguin42> Laney: It always happens that way
[16:39] <Laney> yay got it to boot from usb
[16:41] <penguin42> Laney: When it takes 4 or 5 attempts to install a machine it's always very very frustrating
[16:43] <Laney> nah this is going to be sweet
[16:43] <Laney> straight in, bish bash bosh robert is your mother's brother
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> or your father's brother
[16:48] <Laney> actually robert is my father
[16:48] <Laney> and my father's sister's husband
[16:49] <MartijnVdS> your father married his sister?!
[16:49] <Laney> not the same pers
[16:49] <Laney> damn
[16:49] <Laney> faster than me
[16:52] <popey> \o/ pancakes
[16:52] <MartijnVdS> canpakes!
[16:53] <popey> Sam just said "We should have these every day!"
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> Good idea Sam!
[16:56]  * popey explains netherlands to the kids
[16:56] <popey> MartijnVdS, do you play minecraft? (Sam wants to know)
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> popey: I do not
[16:57] <penguin42> what exactly have you been telling them about the Netherlands?
[16:57] <popey> "Maybe he's like 'What _is_ minecraft!?'"
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: how could I not know what minecraft is, with you and my coworkers talking about it all the time :)
[16:59] <popey> :)
[16:59] <popey> "Coooool"
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://i.imgur.com/8bUjL.jpg
[17:40]  * Laney immediately removes everything apart from FF, home folder, workspace switcher from default launcher
[17:40] <Laney> ah, that new install smell
[17:43] <penguin42> popey: It's a shade of green isn't it?
[17:44] <popey> hmm?
[17:44] <penguin42> popey: Minecraft
[17:45] <popey> uhm
[17:45]  * MartijnVdS has home folder, chrome, terminal
[17:45] <penguin42> seem to get loads of 'minecraft themed' things that are just green and box shaped with a bit of brown splodgyness on
[18:21] <directhex> so who wants to port https://github.com/jlyonsmith/XnaBuildContent to linux?
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> .. you?
[18:22] <MartijnVdS> XNA sounds like an IBM network thing
[18:24] <directhex> token ring?
[18:26] <daftykins> 0o
[18:27] <daftykins> hey directhex - hope the sprog birth went well assuming it hath been and gone! :)
[18:27] <directhex> oh, yeah, ancient history
[18:27] <daftykins> i've been away a while :)
[18:28] <ali1234> directhex: what does that stuff actually do? what does "content building" mean?
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> it leverages synergetic community processes!
[18:29] <ali1234> what is "XNA content"
[18:29] <ali1234> is it like textures and meshes?
[18:29] <ali1234> looks like it
[18:29] <Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/2N0ruoYYAjAP1vyRSa9Y15
[18:30] <Laney> ssd ♥
[18:30] <directhex> ali1234, my understanding, and i could be wrong, is that XNA has a file format for game resources - i believe "xnb" - so content building would be the procedure for compiling an xnb from source formats
[18:30] <ali1234> yeah. it looks like mshtml all over again
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> or wmf
[18:30] <ali1234> no, not wmf
[18:30] <ali1234> well, maybe
[18:30] <ali1234> arguably, avi
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> emf then?
[18:31] <Laney> Windows Metafile
[18:31] <ali1234> oh yeah, i was thinking of wmv
[18:32] <ali1234> well, WMF is nothing like this. this is basically a proprietary zip file afaict
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> \o/ NIH
[18:33] <directhex> hm, i dunno, the description i'm reading makes it sound like the xnb file is a serialized .net object
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> There are 2 versions of ASF. 1.0, the used and unpublished format. And 2.0, which is the published and unused format.
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> Go wiki.multimedia.cx :)
[18:33] <directhex> which sounds more like WMF than i thought :p
[18:33] <ali1234> hmm
[18:33] <directhex> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb447756.aspx
[18:34] <ali1234> but any file can be "unserialized" into it's component parts
[18:34] <ali1234> eg a text file with a list of numbers... you could say that's a serialized array
[18:36] <directhex> well, sure, i think the point is you can treat the assets in an xnb as/with code directly
[18:36] <ali1234> a zip file is a serialized zip object... or at least if you implemented zip/unzip in an object oriented language, it would be
[18:37] <ali1234> "content document object model"
[18:37] <ali1234> ok, i don't want to read any more of this
[18:37] <ali1234> it's clearly insane
[18:38] <ali1234> it's one of those systems which has been designed to be so generic that it ends up doing absolutely nothing to reduce the amount of work you have to do, and it just ends up as another barrier to doing what you need to do.
[18:44]  * popey stabs windows
[18:44] <directhex> it's also used by a bunch of existing xna games. so either we port the content pipeline generation stuff, or those games need the content to be compiled on windows
[18:45] <ali1234> what are the barriers to porting it?
[18:45] <directhex> e.g. reasonably sure that xnb files wouldn't be considered acceptable in a source package
[18:45] <ali1234> i mean has anyone even checked to see if it just works?
[18:47] <directhex> there's an idea
[18:52] <directhex> huh, a cproj. didn't think xbuild did g++ stuff
[19:00] <popey> stupid windows anytime upgrade failed due to sp1 being half installed
[19:02]  * SuperEngineer celebrates his first Ubuntu1 referal upgrade ;)
[19:02] <popey> bah, sp1 fails to install when other disks are in the machine
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: pressured your parents into it eh?
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: Weird!
[19:03] <popey> following some online guide on ms.com
[19:03] <popey> seems known issue
[19:05] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nah! spent some time whilst on sanity in Dartmouth removing sister's 10.04 & pushing her onto to 12.04... she was grateful ;)
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: so grateful that she's noe thinkiong of having me move her Windows desktop to Ubuntu!
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> cool :)
[19:08] <SuperEngineer> that leaves just one target I set myself left to achieve...
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> and then?
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> back to alcohol?
[19:09] <SuperEngineer> I provide a lot of support around this area for pooter newbies
[19:09]  * popey tries to install SP1 again and goes to get a bloody mary to make it easier
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> popey: try a virgin screwdriver instead!
[19:09] <SuperEngineer> one was a gut older than dinosaurs who bought a laptop from Pc World [spit] with windows7 on it....
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: windows 7 -- must be recent then :)
[19:10] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: He has a lot of tomato juice to drink
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> I agreed to support him as long as agreed to get jealous of me running Ubuntu on a netbook faster than he was running & on his laptop...
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: so.. a virgin bloody mary? :)
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> ....he's jealous & getting tempted ;)
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: "virgin screwdriver" = vodka + orange juice - vodka :)
[19:12] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "virgin screwdriver" = vodka in the hands of a mechanical apprentice
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: let's not reinforce stereotypes
[19:13] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
[19:19] <popey> \o/ sp1 installing
[19:19] <ali1234> xp sp1?
[19:20] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: p.s re pressured your parents - hmmm only with a grave digging-up shovlk methinks.  How old do you think I am for Chrisake ;)
[19:20] <ali1234> also, there's a referals for U1?
[19:20] <popey> Win7 SP1
[19:20] <popey> and yes, there is
[19:21] <ali1234> so the people i refer have to get a paid account?
[19:22] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: nope - just refer them
[19:22] <ali1234> cool
[19:25] <daftykins> far better to install Windows from already SP1'd media
[19:25] <daftykins> you can get links to legit media from mydigitallife google results
[19:25] <popey> that option wasn't available to me
[19:25] <popey> woot, now the anytime upgrade works
[19:25] <ali1234> mydigitallife isn't legit??
[19:25] <ali1234> is it?
[19:26] <daftykins> ali1234: it links to the digitalriver mirrors
[19:26] <daftykins> i.e. MS' official ones
[19:26] <ali1234> ah
[19:26] <daftykins> you can get Office versions the same way - handy for sorting peoples PCs
[19:26] <ali1234> i just get the md5sums from a tech blog and then get the isos from torrents
[19:26] <popey> oh ffs, failed again
[19:26] <daftykins> what's failing?
[19:27] <popey> windows anytime upgrade
[19:27] <popey> home premium to professional
[19:27] <ali1234> why do you even need that?
[19:27] <daftykins> system got internet connectivity?
[19:27] <popey> it does
[19:27] <popey> corp network stuff
[19:28] <daftykins> i install from flash drive these days - deleting the ei.cfg file in \sources lets you pick the right flavour without even entering a key
[19:28] <popey> I dont fancy installing again
[19:28] <daftykins> just this past hour done a reinstall of a laptop here in fact
[19:28] <daftykins> yeah, more power to you for next time though
[19:28] <ali1234> if they have a corporate network, don't they have corporate support?
[19:28] <ali1234> (to do this for you)
[19:28] <popey> no
[19:30]  * popey stabs CTRL+W
[19:30] <ali1234> speaking or corporate stuff
[19:30] <ali1234> i have a problem with a radius server
[19:31] <ali1234> client has a NAS and a VPN firewall in front of it
[19:31] <ali1234> the NAS has all the users set up on it, and exports them on radius
[19:31] <ali1234> the VPN picks up the users from radius
[19:31] <popey> oh, 5 more updates and a reboot after sp1
[19:31] <popey> jeez, i thought they'd fixed this update/reboot cycle
[19:32] <daftykins> haha, nope 121+
[19:32] <ali1234> that works, but the NAS says this: "RADIUS server only supports PAP, EAP-TLS/PAP, and EAP-TTLS/PAP authentication schemes for system user accounts."
[19:32] <daftykins> (after SP1, and IE9)
[19:32] <directhex> popey, lollerskates no. windows update is pain
[19:32] <ali1234> and when we try to cnnect the VPN, it only works if you disable encryption
[19:32] <ali1234> also ubuntu can't connect at all, because it won't allow you to disable the unsupported login methods
[19:32] <ali1234> not that they use ubuntu
[19:33] <ali1234> but... does anyone know ... which login methods should work with this, with encryption enabled?
[19:33] <ali1234> there's about 10 different types ...
[19:33] <popey> right, no more updates showing
[19:34] <popey> only optional ones. bing desktop (no thanks), silverlight, (not needed), and some hardware updates..
[19:34] <popey> s/hardware/driver/
[19:34] <popey> lets see if anytime works now
[19:34] <popey> oh yay! activate again!?
[19:34]  * Darael mutters imprecations at irssi-plugin-xmpp
[19:34] <popey> only did this like an hour ago, typing lengthy codes into a phone then typing more lengthy codes into my pc
[19:35] <daftykins> yeah that process is ridiculous
[19:35] <daftykins> at least it's better than it used to be in early XP days, no having to talk to a rep and convince them you have it installed only on one PC to start
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: sorry it took so long to find it: https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/
[19:36] <popey> oh, i put the wrong key in, the one from the box, it wants the anytime key
[19:36] <ali1234> SuperEngineer: popey already answered ages ago, but thanks
[19:36] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: whoops!  too busy trying to find link ;)
[19:37] <ali1234> SuperEngineer: it's only 500MB a pop, i thought it was 500GB... which they probably wouldn't give away for free :)
[19:37] <popey> bah, looks like i need to phone them
[19:38] <daftykins> gotta love this one of a Windows install
[19:38] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EgOlD.png
[19:39] <ali1234> yep, it always says that first time, even on a windows 7 sp1 install
[19:39] <daftykins> yeah i'm not saying i'm new to it
[19:40] <popey> bah, i have to do the phone thing _again_ !?
[19:40] <popey> this is mental
[19:40] <daftykins> :)
[19:41] <daftykins> *enters laptop's COA sticker key and activates*
[19:41] <daftykins> it's far easier not to be legit with Windows
[19:41] <daftykins> but i've not been a poor kid for a long time so i like legal :)
[19:42] <popey> this is all a pukka install
[19:42] <Laney> rewarded for your custom
[19:42] <popey> boxed copy and an online purchased anytime upgrade
[19:42] <popey> yeah
[19:42] <daftykins> yeah i'm not claiming it isn't
[19:42] <daftykins> just find it amusing how staying legit is harder
[19:44] <popey> right, so activated again..
[19:45] <popey> "The upgrade key is not valid"
[19:45] <popey> magic
[19:48] <directhex> my favourite windows experience lately: if you do Users on a non-C:\ drive, it works. however, if you have a folder named Users.bak on the target drive, it merges it into the newly created Users.
[19:49] <daftykins> how useful
[19:49] <daftykins> or did you not want that? :)
[19:49] <SuperEngineer> popey: if you need help, I can recommend an sys that won't give you all this trouble.  It's called Ubuntu... apparently it's rather good!
[19:50]  * SuperEngineer runs for cover :)
[19:50] <popey> unhelpful
[19:50] <directhex> daftykins, of course i didn't farking want that, it rolled all the old desktop icons & things into the new user! disaster!
[19:50] <daftykins> :D
[19:53] <popey> well, that was a waste of time
[19:55] <daftykins> still not playing ball?
[19:57] <popey> nope, says my key is invalid
[19:57] <popey> nothing I can do at this point
[19:58] <popey> yay, now my live account doesn't work
[20:02] <daftykins> sorry for the stupid question, but are you using the anytime upgrade app/link or the change product key one?
[20:03] <popey> i am using the wizard thing
[20:06] <Laney> what's louis walsh done?
[20:06] <Laney> much outrage on facebook
[20:07] <popey> no idea
[20:09] <popey> aaargh
[20:09]  * popey gives up
[20:09] <daftykins> i wonder if you can feed an anytime upgrade key to an edition of the right version you're going *to*
[20:09] <daftykins> probably not, but i'd be curious nonetheless
[20:10] <Darael> daftykins: Nope.  Tried it before, when reinstalling, in an attempt to cut a step out.  Didn't work.
[20:11] <daftykins> ah :)
[20:11] <daftykins> well there y'go
[20:11] <daftykins> thanks for the heads up
[20:11] <Darael> No worries.
[20:11] <popey> wtf, I just rebooted and now it's running win 7 professional!
[20:11] <daftykins> ;)
[20:12] <daftykins> i nearly suggested a restart. after you did the first fiddle the relevant services would no doubt have needed a refresh
[20:12] <Darael> Microsoft was secretly started in a decades-long plot to massively confuse popey.  Clearly.
[20:12] <daftykins> :D
[20:21] <jacobw> s/popey/world/
[20:31] <Azelphur> I think I just officially got the worst apology ever in the history of anything
[20:31] <Azelphur> "I'm sorry I was rude to you yesterday, even though you was wrong and it was entirely your fault"
[20:40]  * jacobw copies to 'lines to use later' book
[20:40] <Azelphur> xD
[20:55] <daubers> \o/ Just managed to create a terrible backronym for some webstuff I'm working on
[20:55] <Darael> Oh?  Prey, tell.
[20:56] <daubers> It's now called the Project Management Suite
[20:57] <Darael> Beaten to it in the software world:  There's the PS3 Media Server.
[20:57] <daubers> Don't care :p
[20:57] <Darael> It's still well done.
[20:58] <Darael> Or horribly badly done, depending how one looks at it.\
[20:59] <daubers> Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
[21:00] <daubers> For some reason dispersible asprin + caffeine + sugar makes me laugh like a maniac
[21:00] <Darael> Hmmm.  Eight out of ten on the maniacal laugh.
[21:02] <daubers> I used to have many arguments about whether you should start Mwahahahaha or Muahahahaha
[21:02] <daubers> seemed a bit symantically silly really
[21:02] <Darael> Then there's the Bwahahahaha school...
[21:03] <daubers> Now Bwahahahahaha always seemed to hint at a bit of a lower class insane genius
[21:03] <daubers> Muahahahaha has an air of eccentricity
[21:03] <jacobw> bwa(ha)+, seriously??
[21:04] <jacobw> it's so mwa(ha)+
[21:04] <Darael> I've seen it.  Doesn't mean I agree with it.
[21:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[21:06] <AlanBell> o/
[21:06] <daubers> 22:00 in the Big Ubuntu-UK house and all sanity has been lost
[21:06] <AlanBell> how was skynet?
[21:07] <AlanBell> is judgement day inevitable?
[21:07] <daubers> Why the hell didn't I realise that super+tab is better than alt+tab these days
[21:10] <popey> it is?
[21:10] <Darael> Because it's not been very-loudly-and-widely talked about and it's not particularly discoverable save by accident?
[21:11] <daubers> When i'm trying to target a specific app it's better (rather than previous window)
[21:15] <ali1234> and because most people don't use either of them anyway
[21:27] <AlanBell> I guess you are supposed to click on the launcher icon, or touch it on a touchscreen
[21:34] <SuperEngineer> ..well you could do that i suppose... but what's wrong with just pointing at it from the other side of the room & have it open... works for me
[21:34]  * bigcalm slithers back from phpnw12
[21:34] <Darael> SuperEngineer: Most people can't point with sufficient accuracy?
[21:35] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[21:37] <ali1234> users won't remember keyboard shortcuts, read instructions written on the screen, and half of them can't even click on a button smaller than 100x100
[21:37]  * SuperEngineer remembers bathroom window is still open - points at window, window closes ;)
[21:37] <Darael> Bah, users, who'd have 'em.
[21:37] <ali1234> if you can do any of those things you're probably the local computer expert
[21:38] <Darael> Don't forget "use a search engine effectively for things other than finding sites one already knows the name of".
[21:39] <Darael> A bit wordy.  But something the modal user doesn't seem to be able to do, certainly.
[21:43] <AlanBell> yeah, still hurts to see people type bbc.co.uk into google
[21:44] <SuperEngineer> I asked someone why they did exactly that... they're reply: 2because it works"... hmmmm
[21:45] <SuperEngineer> *because
[21:45] <plums> connect
[21:48] <Darael> That's probably the real reason for Chrom{e,ium}'s "omnibox".
[21:49] <Darael> Because people don't consistently use either the search box or the address bar as intended, even when they get the difference.
[21:50]  * SuperEngineer was up and about at 4 a.m. - time for bed now... see yous all later folkies
[21:50]  * SuperEngineer points at bed... bed floats to SuperEngineer 
[21:50] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[21:51] <brobostigon> family guy, star wars special, bbc3, :), stewie as vader, lol. :)
[21:59] <brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
[22:10] <daftykins> i tried to tell students of their craziness searching for domains too, horrifying really :S
[22:14] <Darael> In a lot of academic settings the web is already URL-filtered.  Create a block page that picks up anything that looks like a Google search string with q=<some regex to match a domain> and tells them "that is not what a search engine is for"?  Cruel, but amusing and good for them.
[22:15] <daftykins> ;)
[22:16] <daftykins> makes me wonder where things'll get to, once almost everything is simplified
[22:31]  * BigRedS believes that transferring tedious work to the computer is a good thing
[22:32] <daftykins> not sure that googling domains counts there though :D
[22:33] <Darael> Googling domains /increases/ number of clicks needed.
[22:34] <BigRedS> Well, yes, but I very much like the idea of one bar which I type into and it gives me what I asked for
[22:34] <BigRedS> whether that's a domain or a search string
[22:35] <daftykins> yeah, that part does help
[22:36] <Darael> Hence the chrom{e,ium} omnibox.  Or, indeed, the functionality that Firefox has had for ages that does much the same thing.
[22:36] <daftykins> me and Darael are more speaking of those that open a browser, probably type 'google' into the address bar, click google US/UK then type say, bbc, then hit that result ;)
[22:36] <Darael> And, considering they've rarely changed the default search provider, they're probably going through Bing to get to Google.
[22:36] <daftykins> ja!
[22:38] <Darael> So it's addressbar*click*->"google"->*click* on "go"->*click* link to Google->*click* search box->type domain->*click* "Google Search"->*click* link to site.
[22:38] <Darael> In the worst case.
[22:39] <Darael> Which is six clicks and two rounds of typing for something that could be one or no clicks and one lot of typing.
[22:40] <Darael> It would appear I've picked up the habit of using <enter> as punctuation.  Oh, dear.
[22:48] <daftykins> >:)
[22:48] <daftykins> i won't hold it against you... yet