[07:36] <popey> Morning all!
[07:37] <christel> morning popey
[07:51] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:22] <mungojerry> does anyone know about the processor in the iphone5?
[08:22] <mungojerry> i heard apple may have designed their own chip
[08:22] <daubers> mungojerry: It's a weird apple designed thing a bit like arm
[08:22] <daubers> think it has an arm core, then lots of apple added stuff
[08:23] <mungojerry> so are ARM gaining financially from it?
[08:23] <daubers> probably
[08:23] <mungojerry> i have ARM shares, and the price seems to swing wildly on apple news (e.g.lots of ipads sold...whahey)
[08:23] <daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A6 <- suggests it's an armv7 based thing
[08:24] <mungojerry> i know they signed a special licence with apple
[08:24]  * daubers is quite interested in the Cortex-A15 stuff when it finally hits the market
[08:26] <mungojerry> i noticed news about the arm support in 3.7 has been unified across SoC
[08:26] <mungojerry> linux kernel 3.7
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[08:48] <mungojerry> time to replace your hp microservers: http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/
[09:07] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:10] <SuperMatt> morning!
[09:23] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:23] <SuperMatt> morning
[09:24] <SuperMatt> today I learn python
[09:24] <SuperMatt> maybe
[09:24] <brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
[09:24] <SuperMatt> ning
[09:24] <SuperMatt> I have an app in mind for the next showdown so I'm getting started now
[09:37] <SuperMatt> writing code that sites within my ubuntu one folder is awesome, means I can take it to any PC with me and continue working on it :D
[09:38] <gord> why not just use a revision control system?
[09:41] <SuperMatt> I can, I'll probably stick it on launchpad, but for now while I'm dong exercises, it doesn't matter so much
[09:48] <popey> Tomato juice o'clock!
[09:49] <daubers> popey: Turned red yet?
[09:52] <mungojerry> has u1 got version control yet?
[09:53] <jacobw> is the tomato juice for a particular project? like jono's charity show?
[09:54] <popey> daubers, no
[09:54] <popey> mungojerry, no
[09:54] <popey> jacobw, no
[09:55] <AlanBell> popey is not from del monte
[09:55] <popey> :)
[09:56] <bigcalm> Or TSB
[09:56] <Daviey> popey: you are not a tomato juice drinker, are you?
[09:57] <popey> Daviey, No. I am not, "not a tomato juice drinker"
[09:58] <jacobw> tomato or openwrt? that is the question
[09:58] <popey> ebuyer spam o'clock
[09:58] <popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/341347-kingston-60gb-v-200-ssd-svp200s3-60g
[09:59] <popey> their spam says 30 quid
[09:59] <popey> must have sold out
[10:00] <mungojerry> SSD is now 0.50 per GB
[10:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:03] <mungojerry> popey, what's the diff? http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/ocz-ssd2-1vtxpl60g-vertex-plus-internal-2-5-sata-ii-ssd-60gb-11342072-pdt.html?srcid=867&cmpid=comp~Google~Computing+Accessories~11342072&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istItemId=ptmpqpai&istBid=t
[10:07] <popey> mungojerry, longer url?
[10:09] <popey> i expect the performance is better on the kingston one but can't find the specs of the ocz
[10:22] <Oli> mungojerry: the kingston uses a newer controller. The vertex plus is ancient.
[10:22] <Oli> (by SSD standards)
[10:23] <mungojerry> Oli, thanks
[10:23] <mungojerry> performance or something else too?
[10:24] <AlanBell> popey: they fixed the price now
[10:25] <Oli> Short answer: Who knows exactly.
[10:25] <Oli> mungojerry: I'm fairly certain benchmarks exist out there for both though. They have both been popular products in their time.
[10:27] <Oli> Cor blimey they're cheap though! I'd only been looking at the model numbers and only just noticed they're asking for £30 for each. Argl. Pains in my wallet. Somebody call a bank manager!
[10:28] <Oli> Four of those in RAID0 would blow your face off...
[10:30] <mungojerry> 4x the risk of failure
[10:30] <mungojerry> i think you would have a failure within 1 yr
[10:33] <popey> I've yet to have a single SSD fail
[10:33] <mungojerry> :-\
[10:34] <gord> i think you are more likely to want to upgrade your SSD to a larger capacity before they will fail
[10:34] <popey> yeah
[10:34] <mungojerry> except when used in servers
[10:34] <mungojerry> we experience high failure rates due to death from writes
[10:34] <directhex> vertex plus is first-gen sandforce iirc
[10:34] <mungojerry> hard drives tend to die of age, rather than i/o
[10:35] <gord> maybe you don't want an SSD then
[10:35] <mungojerry> we need them for performance
[10:35] <directhex> for servers, buy intel 710 series. you won't wear out the write cycles any time soon
[10:35] <gord> cache cache and cache some more
[10:35] <directhex> i.e. the write cycle allocation on a consumer-grade drive is around the 60TB mark, depending on factors. intel 710 is around 1.5PB depending on size
[10:36] <directhex> yes they cost more, but over a period of 3 years, replacing consumer-level SSDs which are worn out (and not warrantied as a result) will cost a lot more
[10:36] <Oli> And most controllers can work around failing sectors. OCZ stuff has a 5-10% buffer (you get less usable space but it'll keep working)
[10:37] <directhex> all controllers have some number of reserved sectors for reallocation.
[10:37] <directhex> the question is how gracefully they deal with the initial reallocation, and with maxing out all reallocation sectors
[10:37] <directhex> in ocz's case, the answers to those two questions are "lol" and "loooooooool"
[10:37] <directhex> especially on the older controllers
[10:38] <Oli> s/controllers/firmwares/
[10:38] <mungojerry> all these faster components are keeping my 4+ year old laptop running very nicely
[10:38] <directhex> Oli, mmm, yes, that's more correct
[10:39] <directhex> e.g. intel 330 series and ocz 3-series use the same controller, but the firmware makes a huge difference in performance (and more importantly, reliability) characteristics
[10:39] <directhex> Oli, raid0 with ssd would likely not improve speed btw
[10:40] <Oli> To their credit, OCZ has done a lot of work on improving some of their failings. it's a shame they then go and roll something out like the Revo 3 which seems to be a completely proprietary controller.
[10:41] <Oli> directhex: depends on your RAID controller and bus. I've got the PCI-E OCZ Revo (RAID0 on PCIE) and that still bombs along. Slow by the most modern standards but that system of doing things scales up to multiple gigabits per second in their latest jazz.
[10:42] <directhex> Oli, the revodrive pci-e ssd?
[10:42] <Oli> yeah
[10:42] <directhex> or their old raid3 sata controller?
[10:42] <directhex> hm, i think that was xfx's actually
[10:42] <Oli> the raid-and-SSD-in-one
[10:43] <Oli> Ooo. Intel are doing PCI-E SSDs
[10:44] <directhex> 910 series? yes/
[10:44] <directhex> i wouldn't build my business on ocz data storage
[10:44] <Oli> Oh god no.. I don't think I'd build my storage on any one business though. They're all occasionally dire.
[10:45] <directhex> the reason to pay for intel's "consumer" grade drives (330 or 520) is because when they cock up, they reliably go read-only
[10:46] <directhex> with ocz, your os will keep sending data to write, and it might get written, or might not, who knows
[10:46] <directhex> unwritten data gets thrown away
[10:46] <AlanBell> going read only is a good failure mode
[10:47] <mungojerry> yeah, didn't know that
[10:47] <mungojerry> i wonder if it's actually works in practice
[10:47] <directhex> i'm informed by our co-lo host that it does
[10:49] <shauno> that's been my sole problem with ssd so far. when they go wrong, they go very wrong
[10:51] <directhex> ocz i also hate because their firmware update process is hateful
[10:52] <directhex> kingston is the best for ssd firmware updates from the drives i've tried
[10:54] <mungojerry> are they good on their 3yr warranty?
[10:54] <mungojerry> never got a drive replaced by manufacturer, only under dell support
[10:54] <directhex> i've not had to make a warranty claim directly with anyone yet
[10:56] <directhex> most ssd firmware updates must be done either by booting windows & the ssd *not* being the boot drive, OR by booting some kind of updater ISO which typically runs freedos or a mini distro
[10:56] <directhex> ocz's updater iso is particularly hateful, and in the end i had to scour their forums for an admin who posted an old version of the updater to mediafire.com, as the latest version "accidentally" can't update old bugged firmwares to less bugged versions, you need an older version of the updater to handle older drives properly
[10:57] <mungojerry> what does the ssd firmware do generally?
[10:57] <directhex> kingston you can update your current boot drive safely, either with the windows-based tool or gtk+ tool for desktop linux
[10:58] <directhex> mungojerry, makes it work. which might sound obvious, but crucial shipped firmware for the M4 SSD that would cause a BSOD every hour once you had 5000 hours of cumulative drive uptime, and OCZ have shipped drives that vanish from the bus and cause windows to hard lock for years
[13:31] <Goshawk> hi there, i'm trying to install a program in the terminal. It tells me to enter the installation path, which i do, the tells me i have no write to said path. any ideas?
[13:31] <Goshawk> 'write premission'
[13:31] <popey> Goshawk, what is it you're trying to install?
[13:32] <Goshawk> freeorion - the game ;)
[13:32] <brobostigon> !info freeorion
[13:32] <popey> cool
[13:32] <popey> http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion
[13:32] <popey> could you use that package?
[13:33] <brobostigon> sudo dpkg -i PAACKGE
[13:33] <Goshawk> popey: got rev3727 already
[13:36] <Goshawk> popey: how did you go about installing it?
[13:37] <popey> I didnt :)
[13:38] <Goshawk> ok, fair doos :)
[13:39] <Goshawk> So how do i give myself write permission?
[13:40] <popey> what instructions are you following for installation?
[13:42] <Goshawk> just the set up file in the terminal
[13:43] <popey> where from?
[13:44] <Goshawk> from the unpacked download
[13:46] <popey> where from?
[13:49] <Goshawk> i unpacked the DL on a external hd
[13:50] <AlanBell> from where did you download it?
[13:50] <gord> its probably trying to install in /opt/
[13:50] <AlanBell> and what is the installation path you are giving it?
[13:51] <Goshawk> AlanBell: http://www.playdeb.net/software/FreeOrion thats where the DL came from
[13:54] <AlanBell> hmm, that isn't working at all for me, but I am on 12.10
[13:55] <AlanBell> the whole playdeb thing seems to need to be set up as a repository
[13:55] <AlanBell> but anyhow, getting it from there it should be a package that installs through the software centre
[14:04] <Goshawk> i tryd that but software centre say it cant open the file
[14:09] <gord> should probably note that the last release they have for free orion was from 10.04
[14:13] <Goshawk> yeah, fair point
[14:19] <Goshawk> well thanks for the help anyhows :)
[14:29] <daubers> ls
[14:29] <daubers> bah
[14:36] <popey> .
[14:36] <popey> ..
[14:36] <popey> goat_porn
[14:40] <kirrus> how bored are you popey ? ;)
[14:41] <popey> heh
[14:44] <Flashtek> zleap:
[14:45] <daubers> rm -Rf ~popey
[14:45] <Seeker`> :O
[14:45] <Flashtek> sudo umount popey
[14:46] <daubers> less popey & more | cat kitten
[14:47] <daubers> I think freeview changing to DVB-S2 broke my old usb dvb dongle
[14:47]  * Flashtek is looking for a DSL modem that does bridging for use in the UK... recommendations via PM please...
[14:48] <mgdm> daubers: most things should still be DVB-T, thought it was only the HD stuff that was DVB-T2
[14:48] <daubers> mgdm: Maybe it's just old and pants then :)
[14:48] <mgdm> heh heh
[14:48] <mgdm> DVB-S2 is the Freesat stuff, iIRC
[14:48] <daubers> getting lots of "cannot pre fill buffer" and "Failed with errno 0 when reading" stuff
[14:49] <mgdm> hmmmm
[14:49] <daubers> ah interesting
[14:49] <daubers> take it out of the usb hub and it's fine
[14:51] <zleap> hi Flashtek
[14:52] <zleap> Flashtek,
[14:53] <daubers> Woot! Now I can get the radio properly :)
[14:53]  * daubers ponders streaming this around the house using vlc
[14:55] <daubers> Alternativley I could have just turned on the radio that's sat next to the laptop
[16:14] <davmor2> daubers: surely you mean less popey & more | tail -f kitten
[16:23] <popey> \o/ kittens
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> \o/ pumpkin soup
[16:31] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: you're making pumpkin lanterns?
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: no, just the soup
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> I'm not good enough with knives to make lanterns
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> I'd bleed dry before finishing one
[16:32]  * mgdm is going to ask his friend with a laser cutter
[16:32] <mgdm> ;-)
[16:33] <kirrus> mgdm: doesn't that count as cheating? (even if it is pretty awesome cheating)
[16:33] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: that's a shame :(
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: what about a waterjet?
[16:35] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: wouldn't that just get messy?
[16:37] <davmor2> \o/ Pumpkin Kittens \o/
[16:45] <daubers> popey: On the subject of kittens... do you have petplan or similar?
[16:45] <popey> we did
[16:45] <popey> but don't now
[16:45] <kirrus> davmor2: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9100/catolantern1cj2.jpg
[16:45] <daubers> How much was it? The missus wants a kitten
[16:45] <popey> they refused to pay out for our previous cat
[16:46] <daubers> really? on what grounds?
[16:46] <popey> pre-existing condition
[16:46] <popey> which we didn't know about
[16:46] <daubers> ah... ok
[16:46] <popey> they're arseholes
[16:46] <popey> they put the heavy sell on and make out like everything is covered
[16:46] <daubers> Isn't that just insurance companies in general??
[16:46] <popey> clare tore them apart on the phone
[16:46] <popey> not in my experience
[16:47] <daubers> do you have any form of pet insurance now? Or just cover it yourselves?
[16:47] <davmor2> kirrus: I was thinking more this kinda thing http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cat-pumpkin-stencils_waving-cat.jpg
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> stencils = cheating
[16:47] <davmor2> http://www.bandofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/cat-pumpkin-carving_026.jpg
[16:48] <davmor2> http://www.meow.com/product_images/uploaded_images/cat-pumpkin-carving-062.jpg
[16:49]  * daubers gets the meerkats looking into it
[16:54] <daubers> Hmmm... according to the meerkats, homebase is better than petplan
[16:55] <kirrus> davmor2: they're cool
[17:01] <popey> daubers, we have none
[17:01] <popey> ooh, reminds me, car insurance due soon
[17:02] <popey> uh, the meerkcat thinks my car has 6 seats
[17:02] <daubers> popey: Ta :) Just need to find a kitten that needs a home now really
[17:08] <davmor2> popey: nice did you know about the extra seat?
[17:08]  * popey told the meerkat it has 5
[17:10] <davmor2> popey: did you not know your car is 2 front 2 back and 2 fold aways in the boot?
[17:10] <popey> it doesnt
[17:10] <popey> thats an option
[17:10] <popey> which it doesn't have
[17:11] <davmor2> popey: hahahaa or so you thought
[17:37] <ali1234> hey directhex, that stuff you posted on mjg's blog is factually inaccurate, jfyi :)
[17:37] <ali1234> "purging Microsoft's key means losing hardware support, unless you turn off Secure Boot." - this isn't true, it is possible to add the signatures of firmwares on a one by one basis, without needing the kek that they are all signed by
[17:38] <ali1234> and i realise that most people won't do it as it won't be easy, however, it is possible none the less
[18:04] <directhex> ali1234: did you reply as such on the blog?
[18:05] <ali1234> yes, but under a different thread
[19:34] <AlanBell> !info phpmyadmin
[20:15] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps
[20:30] <popey> pip pip
[20:32] <MartijnVdS> \o
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: what'd you think about my post about VMs and VLANs?
[20:48] <bootinfdsds> Screw-me ! Just stumbled across some dude called Richard D. Hall on Youtube.co.uk  :: Surprised that these people still exist !
[20:58] <dwatkins> UFO believers, bootinfdsds?
[20:59] <Azelphur> dwatkins: Alien believers just need to head to margate, people continually see a UFO moving at high speeds off the coast here, I've seen it myself
[20:59] <Azelphur> no idea wtf it is.
[20:59] <KrimZon> UFO believers don't actually exist, they're a hoax
[20:59] <Azelphur> UFO = unidentified flying object, just so we are clear here, take it literally. UFO != Aliens
[20:59] <dwatkins> I believe there are unidentified objects in the sky, but that just means that we havn't worked out what kind of plane they are yet.
[21:00] <dwatkins> My point exactly, Azelphur :)
[21:00] <Azelphur> ^ that
[21:00] <dwatkins> If there were aliens, I very much doubt they'd bother buzzing members of the public after flying all the way here. They'd either quietly approach the governments of the world, or they'd hang in the air for all to see like a large gold brick doesn't.
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: District 9
[21:01] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, or V or The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy ;)
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> V?!
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> V doesn't have aliens...
[21:02] <dwatkins> the ships hung in the air
[21:02] <Azelphur> hitchhikers guide to the galaxy would be amusing
[21:02] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes it does O.O
[21:02] <Azelphur> did you even watch V
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: assuming http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/ here
[21:02] <bootinfdsds> dwatkins, crop circles versus MI5 too !
[21:02] <Azelphur> that's V for vendetta, not V
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there's a difference?!
[21:02] <Azelphur> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307824/
[21:02] <dwatkins> I mean this series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtkV5622Yo
[21:02] <Azelphur> xD
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> oh
[21:03] <dwatkins> ff to 30s for the ships hovering
[21:03] <Azelphur> no aliens, just ignore those big space ship thingies.
[21:03] <Azelphur> they are ... uhh ... christmas decorations!
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> Independence Day
[21:03] <dwatkins> so, aliens either don't exist, or they're quietly liaising with the governments of this world and we'll never know.
[21:04] <dwatkins> ah yes, thanks MartijnVdS - I knew there was at least one more film I was thinking of
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> "Let's use a mac to upload the virus to the alien ship."
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> proving that macs came from aliens.
[21:04] <dwatkins> considering the vast distances involved, I think it's more likely that no alien race has discovered yet, and highly possible that we're the first race to get beyond banging rocks together.
[21:04] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, that makes me laugh every time :)
[21:05] <dwatkins> oh look, their alien operating system is binary compatible to a PowerBook...
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then it MUST be alien!
[21:05] <dwatkins> hahaha
[21:05] <dwatkins> perhaps Apple were run by aliens back then...
[21:05] <dwatkins> *conspiracy*
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> Jobs didn't die, he just went home
[21:06] <dwatkins> dun dun duuuuuuun - the real mystery unfolds
[21:06]  * AlanBell wonders what happened to shuttleworth on the ISS
[21:06] <dwatkins> he went up there?
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: why do you think Ubuntu looks like MacOS these days
[21:06] <AlanBell> dwatkins: his thinkpad is still up there as far as I know
[21:07] <dwatkins> cool
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> forgot to pack? :)
[21:07] <AlanBell> http://ariss.rac.ca/faqariss2.htm blown power supply now
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxAoxwYyxE&feature=plcp
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Do you use libvirt/any other kind of virtualization on Ubuntu? :)
[21:08] <dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS :)
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4qRJ-ym3U0&feature=plcp :)
[21:09] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: sure, KVM on servers and virtualbox on laptop
[21:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you see my post about vlans? Took me ages to figure it all out 8-)
[21:10] <AlanBell> oh, I did have a read, I was going to re-read it slowly with our server config in front of me
[21:10] <MartijnVdS> heh :)
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> vlan trunks are fun
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> once you understand how they interact with Linux and the bridge code
[21:12] <AlanBell> yeah, allows us to use all the addresses in a subnet
[21:12] <dwatkins> I wonder if I should do a CCNA or something similar.
[21:12] <MartijnVdS> It also allow you to separate traffic from different networks completely.. like "customer" and "office" traffic (as I've used it for)
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> They only "meet" on the router
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> and it's smart enough not to forward everything ;0
[21:13] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[21:15] <AlanBell> /etc/network/interfaces has 162 lines on this host
[21:15] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: if you have questions, or if it's unclear, just ask :)
[21:16] <AlanBell> vmbuilder is new to me too
[21:16] <bootinfdsds> AlanBell, Mark Shut. was giving a talk on the tele this week about space .. Do you want me to find the link ?
[21:17] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: sure, that sounds interesting
[21:17] <bootinfdsds> scanning 4 Mark S. ....
[21:18] <bootinfdsds> Not sure if its blocked now .. but here it is ..http://www.manx.net/tv/mt-tv/watch/7128   TEll me if it works , please.
[21:18] <AlanBell> I got one of those £29 SSDs today, deciding whether to let one of the kids use it or find something better to do with it
[21:19] <AlanBell> bootinfdsds: works, thanks
[21:19] <bootinfdsds> cool ;)
[21:21] <bootinfdsds> I sat my bicycle theory exam in that hall .. very nerve-racking, let me tell you !
[21:23]  * daubers doesn't want to buy 5000 resistors :(
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> daubers: You could sell them at a profit
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> daubers: there's an option to buy SMD stuff in small quantities.. let me find it
[21:23] <daubers> Surface Mount resistors? Who'd buy those
[21:24] <daubers> MartijnVdS: At HUGE cost
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: no at REASONABLE Cost
[21:24] <daubers> Nobody does good deals on middling amounts
[21:24] <daubers> I need 60!
[21:24] <daubers> Just 60!
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> daubers: yes!
[21:24] <daubers> Or 30 even
[21:24] <daubers> sorry
[21:24] <daubers> 5 boards not 10
[21:25] <bootinfdsds> How can you resist ?
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you can buy several 100 for a fair price.. not quite 5000
[21:27] <daubers> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surface-mount-fixed-resistors/7172994/
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: they even put it on a pick&place reel for you
[21:28] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Building a pick and place machine to populate 5 boards is even sillier than buying 5000 resistors when I need 30!
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: in that case.. why NOT buy 5000?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> and.. I don't know.. sell them to the needy?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> leave them at the hackspace for general use?
[21:29] <daubers> But 5000 resistors is a _lot_
[21:30] <daftykins> daubers: it was you that works with RAID a lot wasn't it?
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> daubers: it is..
[21:30] <daubers> daftykins: Yes
[21:30] <daftykins> ever make much of 3ware controller resets under Windows?
[21:30] <daubers> urgh
[21:30] <daubers> 2 words in that sentence that make me want to run and hide
[21:30] <daftykins> :D
[21:30] <daubers> 3ware and Windows
[21:30] <daftykins> yay \o/
[21:31] <daftykins> normally i see it if i have to reset the PC, but i got one during use recently
[21:31] <daftykins> not sure whether i should be concerned yet
[21:31] <daubers> Is the controller bombing out?
[21:31] <daftykins> not that i've seen
[21:31] <daftykins> the message just came up in the Windows AV alarm prog
[21:32] <daubers> What was the message?
[21:32] <daftykins> INFO   :  Sep 29, 2012 06:10:21 PM: Controller 0: Controller reset occurred: resets=1
[21:32] <daubers> How many drives, PCI or PCI-E and what PSU?
[21:33] <daftykins> PCI-E, pretty darn new Corsair AX750, PCI-E x4 controller
[21:33] <daftykins> actually, 8x card in a 4x slot
[21:33] <daubers> how many drives are you running?
[21:33] <daftykins> 6
[21:33] <daftykins> verify ops check out fine
[21:34] <daubers> Windows install is all ok? No media errors on whatever it's installed on?
[21:34] <daubers> Oh, what drives?
[21:34] <daftykins> probably. OS is on its' own disk and seems ok
[21:35] <daftykins> er 5 x WD1000FYPS and 1 x WD2002<something here> due to RMA
[21:35] <daubers> Western Digis????
[21:35] <daftykins> yish
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> :( WD
[21:35] <daftykins> WD are fiiiiine
[21:35] <daubers> hmmm.... rather you than me...
[21:35] <daftykins> have had a couple of deaths :)
[21:36] <daftykins> very far spaced out though
[21:36] <daftykins> one when this array was new, in 2008
[21:36] <daftykins> and another hmm... last year
[21:36] <bootinfdsds> Wow .. just looking at the past hour .. UFO's entered the log and then it all gone abit stratospheric.
[21:36] <daubers> We found that western digi's tended to occasionally wipe out whole arrays
[21:37] <daftykins> even when only with their own exact kind?
[21:37] <daubers> Yup
[21:37] <daubers> so each disk is 7.4W peak so 45W for the disks
[21:37] <daftykins> power's never gonna be an issue on that box
[21:38] <daftykins> 125W draw according to the UPS :)
[21:39] <daubers> daftykins: That's a mantra I've heard a few times :)
[21:39] <daftykins> amusingly a while back i went to do some maintenance on said box
[21:39] <daftykins> switched it off - never came back again :D
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daubers: so.. always overspec power massively?
[21:40] <daftykins> had to buy a new PSU then and there
[21:40] <daubers> HDD's run off the 12v rail don't they
[21:40]  * daubers always forget
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> sata is 5+3.3 isn't it?
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> or is it 12+3.3
[21:41] <daubers> Your max output on the 3.3 Rail is 125W....
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> daubers: SATA is 3.3, 5 AND 12V
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> so it could be any
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> or all
[21:41] <daubers> or 3.3v and 5v rail
[21:41] <daubers> page 7 http://www.corsair.com/en/media/cms/manual/49-000037_revAB_AXManual_Webversion.pdf as listed
[21:41] <daubers> so it depends which rail is providing that 125W that the UPS is saying
[21:41] <daubers> is that idle or in use?
[21:42] <daftykins> er no that's the entire system draw
[21:44] <daubers> Yes :) But when you get close to a rail's limit things get uppity sometimes.
[21:44] <daftykins> still not quite sure where the leap to rails came from but righty-o ;)
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> leap rails.. now there's a concept
[21:45] <daubers> If it's 20 watts on the 12v rail and 105W on the 3.3v and 5v rail then I'd expect the PSU to get grumpy when the things are being abused
[21:45] <daftykins> i've got 500GB left on this 5TB array, don't think i can be bothered to buy another set of disks and upgrade any time soon
[21:45] <daftykins> plus the 3ware can't do more than 2TB disks anyway
[21:45] <daubers> however, 3ware RAID cards are a law unto nuggun in themselves
[21:46] <daubers> I have 3 in a cupboard gathering dust as their all as bad as each other
[21:46] <daftykins> got a new favourite?
[21:46] <daubers> We still use Areca cards
[21:46] <daubers> What does the machine do?
[21:46] <daftykins> ah i told a lie, i'm at 108W idle atm
[21:46] <daubers> Ah. PSU might be ok then.
[21:46] <daftykins> run two VMs, idle, file serve...
[21:47] <daubers> I'd suspect the cards :)
[21:47] <daftykins> good times \o/
[21:47] <daubers> daftykins: In that case I'd look at adaptec cards, they have some nice "Use this SSD as block cache" things in them
[21:47] <daubers> pricey though
[21:47] <daftykins> i thought adaptec went the way of the dodo 0o
[21:47] <daubers> http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/
[21:47] <daubers> Nope :)
[21:48] <daftykins> oddness, i read loads of articles about how their main shareholder had muscled in and wanted to dissolve the company
[21:48] <daubers> Pretty good cards from the few I've dabbled with. Linux drivers are/where a bit pants, and configuring the thing in linux is like building a house out of peas
[21:50] <daftykins> hmm are we still at 3TB the largest disk
[21:50] <daubers> You can get 4TB drives. They're a bit weird in performance terms though
[21:50] <daftykins> ah no 4TB from Hitachi
[21:50] <daubers> No idea how reliable they are as we can't certify them until we've sussed the performance
[21:51] <daftykins> been a bit erratic?
[21:51] <daubers> No... just weird
[21:52] <daubers> We normally see high end streaming increase, but with the 4TB drives they're improving performance at the bottom end (ioppy stuff) but the top end is suffering
[21:52] <daftykins> ah
[21:52] <daftykins> how odd
[21:52] <daubers> Looks like they'd been optimised for file serving too much
[21:52] <daubers> not a problem in your environment however :)
[21:52] <daftykins> ^_^
[21:52] <daftykins> good ol' storage
[21:52] <daftykins> can almost put all my stuff on a single disk now
[21:53] <daubers> ....... a risk taker I see
[21:53] <daftykins> heh
[21:53] <daftykins> not really
[21:53] <daubers> :)
[21:53] <daftykins> not since i have a grand of 1TB RAID edition ones, for the lengthy warranty
[21:53] <daftykins> just had enough of replacing it all every 4-5 years
[21:53] <daftykins> costly exercise
[21:53] <daftykins> i don't really hoard as much as i used to now either
[21:53] <daubers> yeah. HDD prices are starting to normalise a bit now
[21:57] <daftykins> ebuyer got rid of their remove-VAT button >_<
[21:57] <daubers> daftykins: Does the RAID you have problems with go to sleep and then spin back up again when it's not busy?
[21:59] <daubers> Also WD data sheets suck
[21:59] <daubers> Where the hell is the spin-up power requirement?
[22:00] <shauno> people actually pay attention to inrush?  how many you stacking?
[22:00] <daubers> Gave up with WD when I asked one of their support guys about that and got the response of "*snort* /Our/ drives don't need to spin up, they're green don't you know"
[22:01] <daubers> shauno: I have a box at work with 32 Hitachi 3TB drives in it.. that _has_ to spin each drive up individually with a wait time between them, or the box get's sad
[22:01] <shauno> ah
[22:02] <shauno> I work with UPSes .. way too used to phantom overloads when machines blow past their spec on inrush current
[22:04] <daftykins> daubers: nah i consider that a bad move for reliability
[22:05] <daftykins> pretty much all controllers i've seen use staggered spin-up
[22:10] <daubers> daftykins: Turn it off and watch the fireworks :)
[22:10] <daftykins> ?
[22:10] <daubers> I turned off staggered spinups to test a cheap UPS someone asked me about. Needless to say it got RMA'd :)
[22:10] <daftykins> hahaha
[22:11] <daubers> Yes spin up 128 disks ALL AT ONCE!
[22:11] <daftykins> i'd have thought the PSU would do something before a UPS
[22:11] <daubers> 4 chassis :)
[22:12] <daftykins> ooh
[22:19]  * daubers heads to bed
[22:22] <daftykins> daubers: same, cheers for your input o/