/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/11/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

rick_h_morning11:43
brouschI guess I haven't updated in a while. 750MB of updates waiting11:53
rick_h_nice11:53
brouschI may get to report a real Python bug11:56
brouschsubprocess.Popen assumes that you have /bin/sh, but on Android it's at /system/bin/sh11:57
brouschSo anything using Popen breaks on Android11:58
brouschWhich includes Fabric11:58
rick_h_yea, that's kind of stupid of android11:59
rick_h_why I say it's not linux :P11:59
brouschBecause they moved /bin/sh?12:01
rick_h_yea12:02
brouschwell sys.platform report 'linux-armv71'. That's Linuxy enough for me12:10
rick_h_man, so I don't want to hate....but http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19909106 vs http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2113239/in-under-10-hours-google-patches-chrome-to-plug-hole-found-at-its-pwnium-event12:14
snap-lrick_h_: Not sure where the hate is12:17
rick_h_for greg-g when he gets up http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/11/bicymple/ kind of interesting12:17
rick_h_snap-l: well it seems a bit FF bashing. I mean FF pulls the download and freaks out, Chrome just patches 10hrs later and deploys12:18
brouschNobody's going to downgrade12:18
brouschThey'll just use IE and Chrome until Thursday12:18
rick_h_yea, so I'll hold off until I see how long it takes them to get the fix out12:18
rick_h_but kind of sad12:18
brouschMy users started getting FF16 yesterday or the day before. Now it is nagging them about old versions of plugins12:19
snap-lrick_h_: It might be serious enough not to have folks using it12:19
snap-lthe BBC article doesn't go into a lot of detail12:19
rick_h_yea, but the chrome bug was a complete ownage bug for the max reward12:19
rick_h_so I can't imagine it's a higher level than the chrome one12:20
snap-lWell, exposing your history to a website is a privacy bug12:20
snap-land that may be a little more scary to folks. :)12:21
brouschhttp://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2016218/ubuntu-asks-users-to-pay-what-they-want12:33
snap-lWay to be on the case, /.12:33
brouscheh?12:34
snap-lActually, that was yesterday. SOrry12:34
snap-lthought it was today.12:34
snap-lCan I Fund Unity a Negative Amount? (Score:3, Insightful)12:34
brouschIf it's old news, I missed it the first time12:34
brouschYes!12:34
rick_h_yea, it's been taking heat all day12:34
snap-l"Can I tell your dad yo pull out next time?"12:35
rick_h_even paul ranted against it12:35
brouschPaul Bunyan?12:35
snap-lrick_h_: paul... ?12:35
rick_h_Paul Tagliamonte (sp?)12:36
snap-lWonder what got his goat12:36
snap-lOr is this Amazon Lens part 212:36
rick_h_http://blog.pault.ag/post/33337643785/stuff-thats-bothering-me-about-ubuntu-right-now12:37
snap-lIt has an option for donating to upstream projects12:37
snap-lseriously12:37
rick_h_well you donate to ubuntu with the desire to see 'better upstream' or something12:38
snap-land if your big hangup is that it's not sending money to Debian, then say "No thanks" and funnel the cash to Debian12:38
rick_h_it's not a way to send direct $$ to debian12:38
snap-lGettimg a little tired of "my special geode must be acknowledged at all times" thinking12:38
rick_h_yea, I'm a giant 'whatever' to that tbh12:38
rick_h_if you want to donate to debian, debian.org ...done12:38
snap-lprecisely12:39
brouschBetter coordination with Debian and upstreams12:39
brouschOH good, they have Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu12:39
snap-lYeah, and imagine the shitstorm on "Ubuntu 13.04, now with 2% more Debian interaction"12:39
brouschI might actually donate to that12:39
snap-l"ONLY 2%? GAHNARFLEFOP FOP FOP FOP"12:40
brouschThere's no LAunchpad option. Poor rick_h_12:40
rick_h_:(12:40
snap-lon the same token, I'm wondering how much more of this the community can take12:40
rick_h_that's ok, I don't work for "Launchpad" any more. I now work for "Cloud Engineering"12:41
snap-lBecause it seems every release has some "rage factor"12:41
brouschIf you want to stay interesting, you gotta keep everyone whipped to a foamy froth. Fox News taught us that.12:42
* snap-l gives brousch the stink-eye.12:46
brouschUbuntu: The Fox News of Linux Distros12:46
brouschI don't really think that, BTW12:46
brouschI don't see the donation thing as bad. It's optional12:53
rick_h_the donation thing existing before but it was moved to be more up front13:00
brouschSee, I didn't even know it existed13:00
rick_h_I didn't either13:01
brouschWhere's the 'Put Shuttleworth on the moon" option?13:01
* dzho isn't sure if that's meant in a good way or a bad way13:06
dzhoI mean, he's already a space case13:06
brouschI like him13:09
jrwrendonate to ubuntu is foolish. I cannot respect any company that uses donations as a business model. either they are for profit or they aren't.13:10
rick_h_yea, but that's the thing. Ubuntu isn't a for-profit company...canonical is13:10
rick_h_it's a strange line to straddle13:10
rick_h_and http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/119f6m/red_hat_salesman_just_fucked_up/ for the lol of the day13:10
widoxhaha13:14
widoxI'm always double checking my mute status during calls13:14
jrwrenubuntu is a canonical product.13:43
jrwrenwhat you just said is like saying Windows isn't a for-profit company... microsoft is.13:43
snap-ljrwren: That doesn't follow13:44
rick_h_I don't know. We're in ubuntu-us-mi not canonical-us-mi13:44
jrwrenhow does it not follow?13:44
rick_h_it's UDS, not canonical dev summit13:44
snap-lUbuntu is an OS that is jointly developed with the community13:44
jrwrenright, we use a product from canonical.13:44
jrwrensnap-l: it is? how is it jointly developed with the community?13:44
* jrwren mind is blown13:44
rick_h_debian merged every release?13:44
snap-ljrwren: I think Canonical tends to forget. ;)13:45
jrwrenright, that isn't jointly developed any more than amazon's linux is joinly developed.13:45
rick_h_ubuntu app contests and such13:45
ColonelPanic001holy crap, if you guys do it at FSB in Lincoln Park, I'm in13:45
rick_h_oh come on, that's a bit unfair13:45
jrwrenapp contests are marketing stuff, much like MSFT app conteests13:45
ColonelPanic001I usually don't go to this stuff because it's an hour or whatever drive13:45
ColonelPanic001but FSB is a semi-regular place for me13:45
snap-lColonelPanic001: FSB?13:46
rick_h_^13:46
rick_h_front side bus13:46
snap-lFront Street Brewery13:46
rick_h_oh13:47
brouschThe release party should be held at a local Canonical employee's house13:47
ColonelPanic001sorry, yeah13:48
ColonelPanic001FSB == Fort Street Brewery13:48
snap-lYeah, it's on the mailing list.13:52
rick_h_gotcha, I looked it up13:52
snap-lTrying to schedule out the release party13:52
snap-lLooking for options, and for folks to contact these places to see if they could house is.13:52
snap-ls/is/us/13:52
brouschsnap-l: Is Royal Oak Brewery near your house?13:54
snap-lYeah, it's close.13:54
snap-lWe hit it frequently.13:54
brouschIf it's there I might be able to swing the same deal as when I came last time13:54
snap-lhttp://goo.gl/maps/JG3JB13:55
brouschBring my son, he can hang out with my sister, give my wife a day off13:55
snap-lHere's where Fort St. is: http://goo.gl/maps/5lC4x13:56
snap-lIt's about 20 minutes from Royal Oak.13:56
snap-lSo it wouldn't be completely out of the way.13:56
snap-lbrousch: Hell, we could carpool if you wanted. :)13:56
snap-lI'm just looking for options so folks who know of an awesome place have a voice in this13:58
ColonelPanic001Royal Oka Brewery was nice the one time I was there with rick_h_13:58
snap-las opposed to me looking around my neighborhood and picking something. :)13:58
snap-lColonelPanic001: Yeah, we had MI Developers there13:58
ColonelPanic001nice13:59
ColonelPanic001I remember it as being a little less spacious than FSB, but for this, might not be enough to be worth worrying about13:59
ColonelPanic001FSB is more of a "one big room" layout13:59
snap-lYeah, this is one big room with a patio out back14:03
snap-lalthough witht he 50F days we've been having, that might not be a "good thing" (TM)14:03
widoxROB would still be more spacious then Liberty Street in Plymouth14:04
ColonelPanic001Frozen Beer Slushies for everyone!14:04
snap-lwidox: Yeah, but we seem to get folks that I never see any other time of the year at Plymouth14:05
snap-llike smoser. ;)14:06
smosersnap-l, i really wanted to go to mug14:06
snap-lsmoser: Yeah, we missed you. It was a pretty good talk.14:07
snap-lFUSE is pretty neat, and how he intergrated it with PostgreSQL was interesting14:07
snap-lBut I also know that UDS is around the corner, so that's a busy time for folks.14:09
brouschDarn a family thing has popped up on the 20th. So I'm only in for the 21st.14:10
snap-lbrousch: Nuts.14:14
brouschDangit, now people want to move the family to the 28th, so I have no idea14:14
snap-lWell, if more folks can't make it on the 20th, then maybe the 21st is a better option14:14
brouschBut don't plan around me14:14
snap-lOK14:15
brouschEven with the family thing on the 20th it gets messy because that means my sister will probably stay in GR until the 21st14:20
rick_h_greg-g: :P you're not supposed to use other linux distros, but it's cool if you have a mac/windows machine on the network you want to sync with14:23
brouschThere are other distros?14:23
snap-lI <3 when something is 100x easier than I thought it would be14:26
snap-lThat little bit of hacking on my python version of due_today that I did last night got me looking again at making it a plugin for todosh14:27
snap-land all that I'd need to change is getting it to read an environment variable and show some help text14:27
snap-lhttps://github.com/ginatrapani/todo.txt-cli/wiki/Creating-and-Installing-Add-ons14:27
brouschsnap-l: This seems like your kind of thing http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html14:40
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, had I not moved to Picasa for photo hosting, I might check it out14:40
snap-lI still might14:40
snap-lgreg-g: Damn you. Getting me to look up constitutionality of the Federal Reserve before lunch. ;)15:23
snap-l^ ref: http://identi.ca/conversation/96468055#notice-9728689215:25
greg-grick_h_: :P15:58
greg-gsnap-l: hahaha, sorry, pete and I can get into it at times ;)15:59
jcastro_you know15:59
jcastro_this might sound weird15:59
jcastro_but I do miss wool pants15:59
rick_h_yes, that sounds strange alright15:59
jcastro_I am wearing my comfy wool pants, if I would have stayed in Florida I would not have gotten to enjoy them16:00
snap-ljcastro_: You're right16:00
snap-lWool, or fleece?16:00
jcastro_wool16:00
greg-gI too love wool16:00
greg-gI might start wearing a wool bike jersey to commute16:01
jcastro_I need to find wherever my wool socks are16:01
snap-lgreg-g: The fun part about that conversation is it's like debating a religious fundamentalist16:01
snap-lie: constitution as written, and not taking into account the myriad of historic cases that defined the document16:02
rick_h_never had wool pants before so guess I don't understand16:02
snap-lLast time I had wool pants was a marching band uniform16:02
snap-lit was the antithesis of comfort.16:02
jcastro_rick_h_, basically, winter indoor pants16:04
rick_h_jcastro_: there's no such thing. Indoor it's shorts or bust16:05
jcastro_so instead of cranking up the heat I just put them on16:05
jcastro_yeah, but now that I have a house I have become an even cheaper bastard16:05
* rick_h_ was wearing a hoodie with my shorts this morning16:05
jcastro_so it's like, pants come on vs. raising the thermostat16:05
jcastro_rick_h_, hah, me too16:05
rick_h_ok, bought a GSM mifi device. We'll see how well this works out16:06
rick_h_man does this seem 100x harder than it should be16:06
snap-lrick_h_: Is it compatible with the US Verizon?16:06
rick_h_so no, I'll get a prepaid ATT card to test it with before I leave16:07
snap-lAh, so it's AT&T then?16:07
rick_h_well it's global. Does all kinds of networks16:07
rick_h_but it's GSM and not CDMA16:07
rick_h_and not LTE16:07
greg-gcool16:07
snap-lUnlocked?16:07
rick_h_:(16:07
rick_h_yea, unlcoked16:07
snap-lOK.16:07
greg-gjcastro_: dude, I was cheap bastard when I rented, but mostly because I rented cheap places where I paid heat16:08
jcastro_I'm just working on becoming a cheaper bastard16:08
rick_h_HSPA+/HSPA/UMTS 2100/900MHz, EDGE/GPRS/GSM 1900/1800/900/850 MHz16:08
jrwrenjcastro_: I too am waering wool trousers. Mine are partly silk lined and very comfy.16:08
jcastro_but I am a technologically minded cheap bastard16:08
rick_h_jcastro_: yea, says the nest in the corner :P16:09
jcastro_so like, LED lightbulbs might be expensive, but I'm more longrun cheap16:09
jcastro_rick_h_, yeah, but it does save me money vs. the POS thermostat that was unusable before it16:09
snap-lhttps://ting.com/devices/Sprint-Airave16:09
jcastro_which was so hard to use my only recourse was "heat on, heat off" because the thing was designed by morons16:09
rick_h_snap-l: I looked at the ting hotspot but only US freq16:10
jcastro_also, when we have our house party, I will show you the epic UI of my lawn sprinkler controller16:10
snap-lYeah, Sprint isn't international16:10
rick_h_https://ting.com/devices/Huawei-5072 CDMA 800/1900 MHz16:10
jcastro_it's basically the stupidest design I've ever seen16:10
snap-lDamn CDMA devices.16:10
rick_h_jcastro_: hah, my neighbor's control is push button16:10
rick_h_it's crazy16:10
snap-ljcastro_: Um, unless you have dimmer-heat, aren't most thermostats heat on / heat off?16:11
snap-lor do you have some fancy zone control16:11
jcastro_snap-l, it's on/off16:11
jcastro_but the scheduling is automatic16:11
jcastro_ie. you don't need to program it16:11
snap-lYeah, we have a cheapie programmable.16:12
jcastro_after a while it knows I like it warm in the morning and cool off during the day16:12
snap-lWon a wifi-enabled thermostat, but it's not compatible with our current house16:12
jcastro_the cool thing about the nest is actually in the summer16:12
jcastro_where it will keep the fan running but the compressor off while it cools16:12
jcastro_it can save you something like 30%16:12
snap-lThat's nice16:13
jcastro_and of course, keeping a history of all your usage is nice16:13
jcastro_stupid that they don't have an API16:13
rick_h_http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RTH230B-5-2-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000EW5U86/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349971980&sr=8-4&keywords=honeywell+thermostat16:13
rick_h_is what I have16:13
jcastro_I am investigating whole-house energy meters so I can measure my usage16:13
rick_h_set it 6am, 68deg, then 8am 64, then 5pm, 68, then 8pm 6416:14
rick_h_something like that16:14
jcastro_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFOXq_iIe416:14
jcastro_I asked DTW to get into this program ^^16:14
jcastro_err, DTE16:14
jcastro_but it was a "don't call us, we'll call you"16:14
snap-ljcastro_: They're heavily invested in the smart appliances program16:29
snap-lforgot the acronym16:29
jcastro_yeah16:29
snap-lIt's the privacy-destroying one that people can figure out if you have your refrigerator on too high16:29
jcastro_it's just hard to get in on it16:29
snap-lI thought it was pretty automatic16:30
snap-lie: get smart meter, and you're there.16:30
jcastro_I don't have a smart meter afaict16:30
snap-lYeah, you'd know16:31
snap-lIf you have to wait 10 seconds to read it, it's a smart meter. ;)16:31
widoxI don't think they started rolling them out widespread yet; there were concerns from customers16:45
widoxand, they'll be raising everyones rate for them16:45
widoxI don't think you as a customer get access to the data though; just whatever DTE gives you via their webapp16:46
widoxcould be wrong though16:46
snap-lwidox: I think that's one of the biggest concerns16:50
widoxand, omg, it emits radio frequencies!!!1!16:50
snap-l"Mr. widox, you're using way too much electricity for this residence. May we come in?"16:50
snap-l(said in a slightly less poilite manner)16:51
widoxyeah - I mean I dont' see an issue with it. I'm paying for the power, they already know how much I get in total16:51
snap-lOnce you get away from aggregated numbers, people get weird.16:53
widoxI'm sure Richard Stallman is behind it because we can't see the source16:53
snap-l"I don't mind if the project knows how many downloads it gets this month, but I'll burn your house down if you tell them I downloaded it"16:53
widoxtrue, but I don't think it knows what exactly is drawing power. just that a 3pm you used more then at 3am16:54
snap-lwidox: With the smart meters, it'll know what device draws what power16:55
snap-liirc, it sets up a mini LAN of your appliances.16:55
snap-leach knowing how much it's drawing, and reporting that back to DTE16:55
snap-lwho then can send signals back to those unints16:56
snap-lI think it's supposed to be the smart version of AC units in the summer on a separate, controlled circuit16:56
snap-lie: load gets too high, they can be intermittently shut down.16:57
rick_h_wooooooo!!!!! http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2012-October/009646.html16:59
snap-lEw, lxml.17:00
snap-lNobody uses XML anymore. ;)17:00
rick_h_heh, except breadability17:00
snap-lThanks for visiting our online store recently. We noticed you left some items in your cart and want to make sure you know the17:00
snap-l+benefits of buying direct. If you experienced a problem during checkout, we'd like to help.17:01
snap-lShit, I left some books unpurchased at O'Reilly?17:01
rick_h_whoops17:01
snap-lNot sure why I got that. My cart is clean.17:01
snap-lJust found that funny: we noticed you haven't bought something. Is there a problem?17:02
snap-l"Normally the resistance between our books and your wallet is 0 ohms, and we noted a fluctuation in that measurement"17:04
jcastro_snap-l, yeah but your appliance needs to support that17:20
jcastro_which is kind of cool because you can do "dishwasher, turn on at night when it's cheap."17:20
jrwrenrick_h_: Huawei is evil! don't buy it!17:31
rick_h_jrwren: :(17:32
rick_h_but it's the best I can come up with looking at things17:32
jrwrenit will probably crash a lot if it is like other huawei devices.17:34
rick_h_seems a common issue with all these things17:35
rick_h_I spent a while going through various amazon reviews of various devices17:35
rick_h_this one doesn't have a ton, but the other related device was rated pretty well17:35
brouschHuaweii devices all have a backdoor for the Chinese govt built in17:36
rick_h_yea, I'm sure they can get their free porn more easily than chasing my connection down :P17:36
rick_h_I'm seriously cranky that verizon won't unlock any of their devices :(17:37
rick_h_http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006FOAV1I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p107_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=16A96XQ1BA186B3YB6NA&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846 has all kinds of issues17:37
rick_h_on several sites the hardware is rated as very poor, hot, shuts down/reboots17:38
rick_h_http://www.amazon.com/UNLOCKED-HUAWEI-HSDPA-WCDMA-MOBILE/dp/B004SLEX8C/ref=pd_ybh_5 I almost got but shipped from china and a review or two about it not being unlocked in fact17:38
rick_h_http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-ZTE-Mobile-Hotspot-Router/dp/B0084CZRKE/ref=pd_ybh_11 was the other one I considered17:39
brouschOh it's unlocked. It's unlocked right to the Communist overlords17:39
rick_h_but the other one is HSPA+17:39
rick_h_so should get better speeds if I use it on ATT ever and such17:39
jrwreni think i'll upgrade my home server to quetzel22:18
jrwreni mean, how much change can there be between now and release?22:18
rick_h_not much22:36

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