[11:43] <rick_h_> morning
[11:53] <brousch> I guess I haven't updated in a while. 750MB of updates waiting
[11:53] <rick_h_> nice
[11:56] <brousch> I may get to report a real Python bug
[11:57] <brousch> subprocess.Popen assumes that you have /bin/sh, but on Android it's at /system/bin/sh
[11:58] <brousch> So anything using Popen breaks on Android
[11:58] <brousch> Which includes Fabric
[11:59] <rick_h_> yea, that's kind of stupid of android
[11:59] <rick_h_> why I say it's not linux :P
[12:01] <brousch> Because they moved /bin/sh?
[12:02] <rick_h_> yea
[12:10] <brousch> well sys.platform report 'linux-armv71'. That's Linuxy enough for me
[12:14] <rick_h_> man, so I don't want to hate....but http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19909106 vs http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2113239/in-under-10-hours-google-patches-chrome-to-plug-hole-found-at-its-pwnium-event
[12:17] <snap-l> rick_h_: Not sure where the hate is
[12:17] <rick_h_> for greg-g when he gets up http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/11/bicymple/ kind of interesting
[12:18] <rick_h_> snap-l: well it seems a bit FF bashing. I mean FF pulls the download and freaks out, Chrome just patches 10hrs later and deploys
[12:18] <brousch> Nobody's going to downgrade
[12:18] <brousch> They'll just use IE and Chrome until Thursday
[12:18] <rick_h_> yea, so I'll hold off until I see how long it takes them to get the fix out
[12:18] <rick_h_> but kind of sad
[12:19] <brousch> My users started getting FF16 yesterday or the day before. Now it is nagging them about old versions of plugins
[12:19] <snap-l> rick_h_: It might be serious enough not to have folks using it
[12:19] <snap-l> the BBC article doesn't go into a lot of detail
[12:19] <rick_h_> yea, but the chrome bug was a complete ownage bug for the max reward
[12:20] <rick_h_> so I can't imagine it's a higher level than the chrome one
[12:20] <snap-l> Well, exposing your history to a website is a privacy bug
[12:21] <snap-l> and that may be a little more scary to folks. :)
[12:33] <brousch> http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2016218/ubuntu-asks-users-to-pay-what-they-want
[12:33] <snap-l> Way to be on the case, /.
[12:34] <brousch> eh?
[12:34] <snap-l> Actually, that was yesterday. SOrry
[12:34] <snap-l> thought it was today.
[12:34] <snap-l> Can I Fund Unity a Negative Amount? (Score:3, Insightful)
[12:34] <brousch> If it's old news, I missed it the first time
[12:34] <brousch> Yes!
[12:34] <rick_h_> yea, it's been taking heat all day
[12:35] <snap-l> "Can I tell your dad yo pull out next time?"
[12:35] <rick_h_> even paul ranted against it
[12:35] <brousch> Paul Bunyan?
[12:35] <snap-l> rick_h_: paul... ?
[12:36] <rick_h_> Paul Tagliamonte (sp?)
[12:36] <snap-l> Wonder what got his goat
[12:36] <snap-l> Or is this Amazon Lens part 2
[12:37] <rick_h_> http://blog.pault.ag/post/33337643785/stuff-thats-bothering-me-about-ubuntu-right-now
[12:37] <snap-l> It has an option for donating to upstream projects
[12:37] <snap-l> seriously
[12:38] <rick_h_> well you donate to ubuntu with the desire to see 'better upstream' or something
[12:38] <snap-l> and if your big hangup is that it's not sending money to Debian, then say "No thanks" and funnel the cash to Debian
[12:38] <rick_h_> it's not a way to send direct $$ to debian
[12:38] <snap-l> Gettimg a little tired of "my special geode must be acknowledged at all times" thinking
[12:38] <rick_h_> yea, I'm a giant 'whatever' to that tbh
[12:38] <rick_h_> if you want to donate to debian, debian.org ...done
[12:39] <snap-l> precisely
[12:39] <brousch> Better coordination with Debian and upstreams
[12:39] <brousch> OH good, they have Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu
[12:39] <snap-l> Yeah, and imagine the shitstorm on "Ubuntu 13.04, now with 2% more Debian interaction"
[12:39] <brousch> I might actually donate to that
[12:40] <snap-l> "ONLY 2%? GAHNARFLEFOP FOP FOP FOP"
[12:40] <brousch> There's no LAunchpad option. Poor rick_h_
[12:40] <rick_h_> :(
[12:40] <snap-l> on the same token, I'm wondering how much more of this the community can take
[12:41] <rick_h_> that's ok, I don't work for "Launchpad" any more. I now work for "Cloud Engineering"
[12:41] <snap-l> Because it seems every release has some "rage factor"
[12:42] <brousch> If you want to stay interesting, you gotta keep everyone whipped to a foamy froth. Fox News taught us that.
[12:46]  * snap-l gives brousch the stink-eye.
[12:46] <brousch> Ubuntu: The Fox News of Linux Distros
[12:46] <brousch> I don't really think that, BTW
[12:53] <brousch> I don't see the donation thing as bad. It's optional
[13:00] <rick_h_> the donation thing existing before but it was moved to be more up front
[13:00] <brousch> See, I didn't even know it existed
[13:01] <rick_h_> I didn't either
[13:01] <brousch> Where's the 'Put Shuttleworth on the moon" option?
[13:06]  * dzho isn't sure if that's meant in a good way or a bad way
[13:06] <dzho> I mean, he's already a space case
[13:09] <brousch> I like him
[13:10] <jrwren> donate to ubuntu is foolish. I cannot respect any company that uses donations as a business model. either they are for profit or they aren't.
[13:10] <rick_h_> yea, but that's the thing. Ubuntu isn't a for-profit company...canonical is
[13:10] <rick_h_> it's a strange line to straddle
[13:10] <rick_h_> and http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/119f6m/red_hat_salesman_just_fucked_up/ for the lol of the day
[13:14] <widox> haha
[13:14] <widox> I'm always double checking my mute status during calls
[13:43] <jrwren> ubuntu is a canonical product.
[13:43] <jrwren> what you just said is like saying Windows isn't a for-profit company... microsoft is.
[13:44] <snap-l> jrwren: That doesn't follow
[13:44] <rick_h_> I don't know. We're in ubuntu-us-mi not canonical-us-mi
[13:44] <jrwren> how does it not follow?
[13:44] <rick_h_> it's UDS, not canonical dev summit
[13:44] <snap-l> Ubuntu is an OS that is jointly developed with the community
[13:44] <jrwren> right, we use a product from canonical.
[13:44] <jrwren> snap-l: it is? how is it jointly developed with the community?
[13:44]  * jrwren mind is blown
[13:44] <rick_h_> debian merged every release?
[13:45] <snap-l> jrwren: I think Canonical tends to forget. ;)
[13:45] <jrwren> right, that isn't jointly developed any more than amazon's linux is joinly developed.
[13:45] <rick_h_> ubuntu app contests and such
[13:45] <ColonelPanic001> holy crap, if you guys do it at FSB in Lincoln Park, I'm in
[13:45] <rick_h_> oh come on, that's a bit unfair
[13:45] <jrwren> app contests are marketing stuff, much like MSFT app conteests
[13:45] <ColonelPanic001> I usually don't go to this stuff because it's an hour or whatever drive
[13:45] <ColonelPanic001> but FSB is a semi-regular place for me
[13:46] <snap-l> ColonelPanic001: FSB?
[13:46] <rick_h_> ^
[13:46] <rick_h_> front side bus
[13:46] <snap-l> Front Street Brewery
[13:47] <rick_h_> oh
[13:47] <brousch> The release party should be held at a local Canonical employee's house
[13:48] <ColonelPanic001> sorry, yeah
[13:48] <ColonelPanic001> FSB == Fort Street Brewery
[13:52] <snap-l> Yeah, it's on the mailing list.
[13:52] <rick_h_> gotcha, I looked it up
[13:52] <snap-l> Trying to schedule out the release party
[13:52] <snap-l> Looking for options, and for folks to contact these places to see if they could house is.
[13:52] <snap-l> s/is/us/
[13:54] <brousch> snap-l: Is Royal Oak Brewery near your house?
[13:54] <snap-l> Yeah, it's close.
[13:54] <snap-l> We hit it frequently.
[13:54] <brousch> If it's there I might be able to swing the same deal as when I came last time
[13:55] <snap-l> http://goo.gl/maps/JG3JB
[13:55] <brousch> Bring my son, he can hang out with my sister, give my wife a day off
[13:56] <snap-l> Here's where Fort St. is: http://goo.gl/maps/5lC4x
[13:56] <snap-l> It's about 20 minutes from Royal Oak.
[13:56] <snap-l> So it wouldn't be completely out of the way.
[13:56] <snap-l> brousch: Hell, we could carpool if you wanted. :)
[13:58] <snap-l> I'm just looking for options so folks who know of an awesome place have a voice in this
[13:58] <ColonelPanic001> Royal Oka Brewery was nice the one time I was there with rick_h_
[13:58] <snap-l> as opposed to me looking around my neighborhood and picking something. :)
[13:58] <snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, we had MI Developers there
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> nice
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> I remember it as being a little less spacious than FSB, but for this, might not be enough to be worth worrying about
[13:59] <ColonelPanic001> FSB is more of a "one big room" layout
[14:03] <snap-l> Yeah, this is one big room with a patio out back
[14:03] <snap-l> although witht he 50F days we've been having, that might not be a "good thing" (TM)
[14:04] <widox> ROB would still be more spacious then Liberty Street in Plymouth
[14:04] <ColonelPanic001> Frozen Beer Slushies for everyone!
[14:05] <snap-l> widox: Yeah, but we seem to get folks that I never see any other time of the year at Plymouth
[14:06] <snap-l> like smoser. ;)
[14:06] <smoser> snap-l, i really wanted to go to mug
[14:07] <snap-l> smoser: Yeah, we missed you. It was a pretty good talk.
[14:07] <snap-l> FUSE is pretty neat, and how he intergrated it with PostgreSQL was interesting
[14:09] <snap-l> But I also know that UDS is around the corner, so that's a busy time for folks.
[14:10] <brousch> Darn a family thing has popped up on the 20th. So I'm only in for the 21st.
[14:14] <snap-l> brousch: Nuts.
[14:14] <brousch> Dangit, now people want to move the family to the 28th, so I have no idea
[14:14] <snap-l> Well, if more folks can't make it on the 20th, then maybe the 21st is a better option
[14:14] <brousch> But don't plan around me
[14:15] <snap-l> OK
[14:20] <brousch> Even with the family thing on the 20th it gets messy because that means my sister will probably stay in GR until the 21st
[14:23] <rick_h_> greg-g: :P you're not supposed to use other linux distros, but it's cool if you have a mac/windows machine on the network you want to sync with
[14:23] <brousch> There are other distros?
[14:26] <snap-l> I <3 when something is 100x easier than I thought it would be
[14:27] <snap-l> That little bit of hacking on my python version of due_today that I did last night got me looking again at making it a plugin for todosh
[14:27] <snap-l> and all that I'd need to change is getting it to read an environment variable and show some help text
[14:27] <snap-l> https://github.com/ginatrapani/todo.txt-cli/wiki/Creating-and-Installing-Add-ons
[14:40] <brousch> snap-l: This seems like your kind of thing http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
[14:40] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, had I not moved to Picasa for photo hosting, I might check it out
[14:40] <snap-l> I still might
[15:23] <snap-l> greg-g: Damn you. Getting me to look up constitutionality of the Federal Reserve before lunch. ;)
[15:25] <snap-l> ^ ref: http://identi.ca/conversation/96468055#notice-97286892
[15:58] <greg-g> rick_h_: :P
[15:59] <greg-g> snap-l: hahaha, sorry, pete and I can get into it at times ;)
[15:59] <jcastro_> you know
[15:59] <jcastro_> this might sound weird
[15:59] <jcastro_> but I do miss wool pants
[15:59] <rick_h_> yes, that sounds strange alright
[16:00] <jcastro_> I am wearing my comfy wool pants, if I would have stayed in Florida I would not have gotten to enjoy them
[16:00] <snap-l> jcastro_: You're right
[16:00] <snap-l> Wool, or fleece?
[16:00] <jcastro_> wool
[16:00] <greg-g> I too love wool
[16:01] <greg-g> I might start wearing a wool bike jersey to commute
[16:01] <jcastro_> I need to find wherever my wool socks are
[16:01] <snap-l> greg-g: The fun part about that conversation is it's like debating a religious fundamentalist
[16:02] <snap-l> ie: constitution as written, and not taking into account the myriad of historic cases that defined the document
[16:02] <rick_h_> never had wool pants before so guess I don't understand
[16:02] <snap-l> Last time I had wool pants was a marching band uniform
[16:02] <snap-l> it was the antithesis of comfort.
[16:04] <jcastro_> rick_h_, basically, winter indoor pants
[16:05] <rick_h_> jcastro_: there's no such thing. Indoor it's shorts or bust
[16:05] <jcastro_> so instead of cranking up the heat I just put them on
[16:05] <jcastro_> yeah, but now that I have a house I have become an even cheaper bastard
[16:05]  * rick_h_ was wearing a hoodie with my shorts this morning
[16:05] <jcastro_> so it's like, pants come on vs. raising the thermostat
[16:05] <jcastro_> rick_h_, hah, me too
[16:06] <rick_h_> ok, bought a GSM mifi device. We'll see how well this works out
[16:06] <rick_h_> man does this seem 100x harder than it should be
[16:06] <snap-l> rick_h_: Is it compatible with the US Verizon?
[16:07] <rick_h_> so no, I'll get a prepaid ATT card to test it with before I leave
[16:07] <snap-l> Ah, so it's AT&T then?
[16:07] <rick_h_> well it's global. Does all kinds of networks
[16:07] <rick_h_> but it's GSM and not CDMA
[16:07] <rick_h_> and not LTE
[16:07] <greg-g> cool
[16:07] <snap-l> Unlocked?
[16:07] <rick_h_> :(
[16:07] <rick_h_> yea, unlcoked
[16:07] <snap-l> OK.
[16:08] <greg-g> jcastro_: dude, I was cheap bastard when I rented, but mostly because I rented cheap places where I paid heat
[16:08] <jcastro_> I'm just working on becoming a cheaper bastard
[16:08] <rick_h_> HSPA+/HSPA/UMTS 2100/900MHz, EDGE/GPRS/GSM 1900/1800/900/850 MHz
[16:08] <jrwren> jcastro_: I too am waering wool trousers. Mine are partly silk lined and very comfy.
[16:08] <jcastro_> but I am a technologically minded cheap bastard
[16:09] <rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, says the nest in the corner :P
[16:09] <jcastro_> so like, LED lightbulbs might be expensive, but I'm more longrun cheap
[16:09] <jcastro_> rick_h_, yeah, but it does save me money vs. the POS thermostat that was unusable before it
[16:09] <snap-l> https://ting.com/devices/Sprint-Airave
[16:09] <jcastro_> which was so hard to use my only recourse was "heat on, heat off" because the thing was designed by morons
[16:10] <rick_h_> snap-l: I looked at the ting hotspot but only US freq
[16:10] <jcastro_> also, when we have our house party, I will show you the epic UI of my lawn sprinkler controller
[16:10] <snap-l> Yeah, Sprint isn't international
[16:10] <rick_h_> https://ting.com/devices/Huawei-5072 CDMA 800/1900 MHz
[16:10] <jcastro_> it's basically the stupidest design I've ever seen
[16:10] <snap-l> Damn CDMA devices.
[16:10] <rick_h_> jcastro_: hah, my neighbor's control is push button
[16:10] <rick_h_> it's crazy
[16:11] <snap-l> jcastro_: Um, unless you have dimmer-heat, aren't most thermostats heat on / heat off?
[16:11] <snap-l> or do you have some fancy zone control
[16:11] <jcastro_> snap-l, it's on/off
[16:11] <jcastro_> but the scheduling is automatic
[16:11] <jcastro_> ie. you don't need to program it
[16:12] <snap-l> Yeah, we have a cheapie programmable.
[16:12] <jcastro_> after a while it knows I like it warm in the morning and cool off during the day
[16:12] <snap-l> Won a wifi-enabled thermostat, but it's not compatible with our current house
[16:12] <jcastro_> the cool thing about the nest is actually in the summer
[16:12] <jcastro_> where it will keep the fan running but the compressor off while it cools
[16:12] <jcastro_> it can save you something like 30%
[16:13] <snap-l> That's nice
[16:13] <jcastro_> and of course, keeping a history of all your usage is nice
[16:13] <jcastro_> stupid that they don't have an API
[16:13] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RTH230B-5-2-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000EW5U86/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349971980&sr=8-4&keywords=honeywell+thermostat
[16:13] <rick_h_> is what I have
[16:13] <jcastro_> I am investigating whole-house energy meters so I can measure my usage
[16:14] <rick_h_> set it 6am, 68deg, then 8am 64, then 5pm, 68, then 8pm 64
[16:14] <rick_h_> something like that
[16:14] <jcastro_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFOXq_iIe4
[16:14] <jcastro_> I asked DTW to get into this program ^^
[16:14] <jcastro_> err, DTE
[16:14] <jcastro_> but it was a "don't call us, we'll call you"
[16:29] <snap-l> jcastro_: They're heavily invested in the smart appliances program
[16:29] <snap-l> forgot the acronym
[16:29] <jcastro_> yeah
[16:29] <snap-l> It's the privacy-destroying one that people can figure out if you have your refrigerator on too high
[16:29] <jcastro_> it's just hard to get in on it
[16:30] <snap-l> I thought it was pretty automatic
[16:30] <snap-l> ie: get smart meter, and you're there.
[16:30] <jcastro_> I don't have a smart meter afaict
[16:31] <snap-l> Yeah, you'd know
[16:31] <snap-l> If you have to wait 10 seconds to read it, it's a smart meter. ;)
[16:45] <widox> I don't think they started rolling them out widespread yet; there were concerns from customers
[16:45] <widox> and, they'll be raising everyones rate for them
[16:46] <widox> I don't think you as a customer get access to the data though; just whatever DTE gives you via their webapp
[16:46] <widox> could be wrong though
[16:50] <snap-l> widox: I think that's one of the biggest concerns
[16:50] <widox> and, omg, it emits radio frequencies!!!1!
[16:50] <snap-l> "Mr. widox, you're using way too much electricity for this residence. May we come in?"
[16:51] <snap-l> (said in a slightly less poilite manner)
[16:51] <widox> yeah - I mean I dont' see an issue with it. I'm paying for the power, they already know how much I get in total
[16:53] <snap-l> Once you get away from aggregated numbers, people get weird.
[16:53] <widox> I'm sure Richard Stallman is behind it because we can't see the source
[16:53] <snap-l> "I don't mind if the project knows how many downloads it gets this month, but I'll burn your house down if you tell them I downloaded it"
[16:54] <widox> true, but I don't think it knows what exactly is drawing power. just that a 3pm you used more then at 3am
[16:55] <snap-l> widox: With the smart meters, it'll know what device draws what power
[16:55] <snap-l> iirc, it sets up a mini LAN of your appliances.
[16:55] <snap-l> each knowing how much it's drawing, and reporting that back to DTE
[16:56] <snap-l> who then can send signals back to those unints
[16:56] <snap-l> I think it's supposed to be the smart version of AC units in the summer on a separate, controlled circuit
[16:57] <snap-l> ie: load gets too high, they can be intermittently shut down.
[16:59] <rick_h_> wooooooo!!!!! http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2012-October/009646.html
[17:00] <snap-l> Ew, lxml.
[17:00] <snap-l> Nobody uses XML anymore. ;)
[17:00] <rick_h_> heh, except breadability
[17:00] <snap-l> Thanks for visiting our online store recently. We noticed you left some items in your cart and want to make sure you know the
[17:01] <snap-l> +benefits of buying direct. If you experienced a problem during checkout, we'd like to help.
[17:01] <snap-l> Shit, I left some books unpurchased at O'Reilly?
[17:01] <rick_h_> whoops
[17:01] <snap-l> Not sure why I got that. My cart is clean.
[17:02] <snap-l> Just found that funny: we noticed you haven't bought something. Is there a problem?
[17:04] <snap-l> "Normally the resistance between our books and your wallet is 0 ohms, and we noted a fluctuation in that measurement"
[17:20] <jcastro_> snap-l, yeah but your appliance needs to support that
[17:20] <jcastro_> which is kind of cool because you can do "dishwasher, turn on at night when it's cheap."
[17:31] <jrwren> rick_h_: Huawei is evil! don't buy it!
[17:32] <rick_h_> jrwren: :(
[17:32] <rick_h_> but it's the best I can come up with looking at things
[17:34] <jrwren> it will probably crash a lot if it is like other huawei devices.
[17:35] <rick_h_> seems a common issue with all these things
[17:35] <rick_h_> I spent a while going through various amazon reviews of various devices
[17:35] <rick_h_> this one doesn't have a ton, but the other related device was rated pretty well
[17:36] <brousch> Huaweii devices all have a backdoor for the Chinese govt built in
[17:36] <rick_h_> yea, I'm sure they can get their free porn more easily than chasing my connection down :P
[17:37] <rick_h_> I'm seriously cranky that verizon won't unlock any of their devices :(
[17:37] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006FOAV1I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p107_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=16A96XQ1BA186B3YB6NA&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846 has all kinds of issues
[17:38] <rick_h_> on several sites the hardware is rated as very poor, hot, shuts down/reboots
[17:38] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/UNLOCKED-HUAWEI-HSDPA-WCDMA-MOBILE/dp/B004SLEX8C/ref=pd_ybh_5 I almost got but shipped from china and a review or two about it not being unlocked in fact
[17:39] <rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-ZTE-Mobile-Hotspot-Router/dp/B0084CZRKE/ref=pd_ybh_11 was the other one I considered
[17:39] <brousch> Oh it's unlocked. It's unlocked right to the Communist overlords
[17:39] <rick_h_> but the other one is HSPA+
[17:39] <rick_h_> so should get better speeds if I use it on ATT ever and such
[22:18] <jrwren> i think i'll upgrade my home server to quetzel
[22:18] <jrwren> i mean, how much change can there be between now and release?
[22:36] <rick_h_> not much