[11:43] morning [11:53] I guess I haven't updated in a while. 750MB of updates waiting [11:53] nice [11:56] I may get to report a real Python bug [11:57] subprocess.Popen assumes that you have /bin/sh, but on Android it's at /system/bin/sh [11:58] So anything using Popen breaks on Android [11:58] Which includes Fabric [11:59] yea, that's kind of stupid of android [11:59] why I say it's not linux :P [12:01] Because they moved /bin/sh? [12:02] yea [12:10] well sys.platform report 'linux-armv71'. That's Linuxy enough for me [12:14] man, so I don't want to hate....but http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19909106 vs http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2113239/in-under-10-hours-google-patches-chrome-to-plug-hole-found-at-its-pwnium-event [12:17] rick_h_: Not sure where the hate is [12:17] for greg-g when he gets up http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/11/bicymple/ kind of interesting [12:18] snap-l: well it seems a bit FF bashing. I mean FF pulls the download and freaks out, Chrome just patches 10hrs later and deploys [12:18] Nobody's going to downgrade [12:18] They'll just use IE and Chrome until Thursday [12:18] yea, so I'll hold off until I see how long it takes them to get the fix out [12:18] but kind of sad [12:19] My users started getting FF16 yesterday or the day before. Now it is nagging them about old versions of plugins [12:19] rick_h_: It might be serious enough not to have folks using it [12:19] the BBC article doesn't go into a lot of detail [12:19] yea, but the chrome bug was a complete ownage bug for the max reward [12:20] so I can't imagine it's a higher level than the chrome one [12:20] Well, exposing your history to a website is a privacy bug [12:21] and that may be a little more scary to folks. :) [12:33] http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/10/10/2016218/ubuntu-asks-users-to-pay-what-they-want [12:33] Way to be on the case, /. [12:34] eh? [12:34] Actually, that was yesterday. SOrry [12:34] thought it was today. [12:34] Can I Fund Unity a Negative Amount? (Score:3, Insightful) [12:34] If it's old news, I missed it the first time [12:34] Yes! [12:34] yea, it's been taking heat all day [12:35] "Can I tell your dad yo pull out next time?" [12:35] even paul ranted against it [12:35] Paul Bunyan? [12:35] rick_h_: paul... ? [12:36] Paul Tagliamonte (sp?) [12:36] Wonder what got his goat [12:36] Or is this Amazon Lens part 2 [12:37] http://blog.pault.ag/post/33337643785/stuff-thats-bothering-me-about-ubuntu-right-now [12:37] It has an option for donating to upstream projects [12:37] seriously [12:38] well you donate to ubuntu with the desire to see 'better upstream' or something [12:38] and if your big hangup is that it's not sending money to Debian, then say "No thanks" and funnel the cash to Debian [12:38] it's not a way to send direct $$ to debian [12:38] Gettimg a little tired of "my special geode must be acknowledged at all times" thinking [12:38] yea, I'm a giant 'whatever' to that tbh [12:38] if you want to donate to debian, debian.org ...done [12:39] precisely [12:39] Better coordination with Debian and upstreams [12:39] OH good, they have Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu [12:39] Yeah, and imagine the shitstorm on "Ubuntu 13.04, now with 2% more Debian interaction" [12:39] I might actually donate to that [12:40] "ONLY 2%? GAHNARFLEFOP FOP FOP FOP" [12:40] There's no LAunchpad option. Poor rick_h_ [12:40] :( [12:40] on the same token, I'm wondering how much more of this the community can take [12:41] that's ok, I don't work for "Launchpad" any more. I now work for "Cloud Engineering" [12:41] Because it seems every release has some "rage factor" [12:42] If you want to stay interesting, you gotta keep everyone whipped to a foamy froth. Fox News taught us that. [12:46] * snap-l gives brousch the stink-eye. [12:46] Ubuntu: The Fox News of Linux Distros [12:46] I don't really think that, BTW [12:53] I don't see the donation thing as bad. It's optional [13:00] the donation thing existing before but it was moved to be more up front [13:00] See, I didn't even know it existed [13:01] I didn't either [13:01] Where's the 'Put Shuttleworth on the moon" option? [13:06] * dzho isn't sure if that's meant in a good way or a bad way [13:06] I mean, he's already a space case [13:09] I like him [13:10] donate to ubuntu is foolish. I cannot respect any company that uses donations as a business model. either they are for profit or they aren't. [13:10] yea, but that's the thing. Ubuntu isn't a for-profit company...canonical is [13:10] it's a strange line to straddle [13:10] and http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/119f6m/red_hat_salesman_just_fucked_up/ for the lol of the day [13:14] haha [13:14] I'm always double checking my mute status during calls [13:43] ubuntu is a canonical product. [13:43] what you just said is like saying Windows isn't a for-profit company... microsoft is. [13:44] jrwren: That doesn't follow [13:44] I don't know. We're in ubuntu-us-mi not canonical-us-mi [13:44] how does it not follow? [13:44] it's UDS, not canonical dev summit [13:44] Ubuntu is an OS that is jointly developed with the community [13:44] right, we use a product from canonical. [13:44] snap-l: it is? how is it jointly developed with the community? [13:44] * jrwren mind is blown [13:44] debian merged every release? [13:45] jrwren: I think Canonical tends to forget. ;) [13:45] right, that isn't jointly developed any more than amazon's linux is joinly developed. [13:45] ubuntu app contests and such [13:45] holy crap, if you guys do it at FSB in Lincoln Park, I'm in [13:45] oh come on, that's a bit unfair [13:45] app contests are marketing stuff, much like MSFT app conteests [13:45] I usually don't go to this stuff because it's an hour or whatever drive [13:45] but FSB is a semi-regular place for me [13:46] ColonelPanic001: FSB? [13:46] ^ [13:46] front side bus [13:46] Front Street Brewery [13:47] oh [13:47] The release party should be held at a local Canonical employee's house [13:48] sorry, yeah [13:48] FSB == Fort Street Brewery [13:52] Yeah, it's on the mailing list. [13:52] gotcha, I looked it up [13:52] Trying to schedule out the release party [13:52] Looking for options, and for folks to contact these places to see if they could house is. [13:52] s/is/us/ [13:54] snap-l: Is Royal Oak Brewery near your house? [13:54] Yeah, it's close. [13:54] We hit it frequently. [13:54] If it's there I might be able to swing the same deal as when I came last time [13:55] http://goo.gl/maps/JG3JB [13:55] Bring my son, he can hang out with my sister, give my wife a day off [13:56] Here's where Fort St. is: http://goo.gl/maps/5lC4x [13:56] It's about 20 minutes from Royal Oak. [13:56] So it wouldn't be completely out of the way. [13:56] brousch: Hell, we could carpool if you wanted. :) [13:58] I'm just looking for options so folks who know of an awesome place have a voice in this [13:58] Royal Oka Brewery was nice the one time I was there with rick_h_ [13:58] as opposed to me looking around my neighborhood and picking something. :) [13:58] ColonelPanic001: Yeah, we had MI Developers there [13:59] nice [13:59] I remember it as being a little less spacious than FSB, but for this, might not be enough to be worth worrying about [13:59] FSB is more of a "one big room" layout [14:03] Yeah, this is one big room with a patio out back [14:03] although witht he 50F days we've been having, that might not be a "good thing" (TM) [14:04] ROB would still be more spacious then Liberty Street in Plymouth [14:04] Frozen Beer Slushies for everyone! [14:05] widox: Yeah, but we seem to get folks that I never see any other time of the year at Plymouth [14:06] like smoser. ;) [14:06] snap-l, i really wanted to go to mug [14:07] smoser: Yeah, we missed you. It was a pretty good talk. [14:07] FUSE is pretty neat, and how he intergrated it with PostgreSQL was interesting [14:09] But I also know that UDS is around the corner, so that's a busy time for folks. [14:10] Darn a family thing has popped up on the 20th. So I'm only in for the 21st. [14:14] brousch: Nuts. [14:14] Dangit, now people want to move the family to the 28th, so I have no idea [14:14] Well, if more folks can't make it on the 20th, then maybe the 21st is a better option [14:14] But don't plan around me [14:15] OK [14:20] Even with the family thing on the 20th it gets messy because that means my sister will probably stay in GR until the 21st [14:23] greg-g: :P you're not supposed to use other linux distros, but it's cool if you have a mac/windows machine on the network you want to sync with [14:23] There are other distros? [14:26] I <3 when something is 100x easier than I thought it would be [14:27] That little bit of hacking on my python version of due_today that I did last night got me looking again at making it a plugin for todosh [14:27] and all that I'd need to change is getting it to read an environment variable and show some help text [14:27] https://github.com/ginatrapani/todo.txt-cli/wiki/Creating-and-Installing-Add-ons [14:40] snap-l: This seems like your kind of thing http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html [14:40] brousch: Yeah, had I not moved to Picasa for photo hosting, I might check it out [14:40] I still might [15:23] greg-g: Damn you. Getting me to look up constitutionality of the Federal Reserve before lunch. ;) [15:25] ^ ref: http://identi.ca/conversation/96468055#notice-97286892 [15:58] rick_h_: :P [15:59] snap-l: hahaha, sorry, pete and I can get into it at times ;) [15:59] you know [15:59] this might sound weird [15:59] but I do miss wool pants [15:59] yes, that sounds strange alright [16:00] I am wearing my comfy wool pants, if I would have stayed in Florida I would not have gotten to enjoy them [16:00] jcastro_: You're right [16:00] Wool, or fleece? [16:00] wool [16:00] I too love wool [16:01] I might start wearing a wool bike jersey to commute [16:01] I need to find wherever my wool socks are [16:01] greg-g: The fun part about that conversation is it's like debating a religious fundamentalist [16:02] ie: constitution as written, and not taking into account the myriad of historic cases that defined the document [16:02] never had wool pants before so guess I don't understand [16:02] Last time I had wool pants was a marching band uniform [16:02] it was the antithesis of comfort. [16:04] rick_h_, basically, winter indoor pants [16:05] jcastro_: there's no such thing. Indoor it's shorts or bust [16:05] so instead of cranking up the heat I just put them on [16:05] yeah, but now that I have a house I have become an even cheaper bastard [16:05] * rick_h_ was wearing a hoodie with my shorts this morning [16:05] so it's like, pants come on vs. raising the thermostat [16:05] rick_h_, hah, me too [16:06] ok, bought a GSM mifi device. We'll see how well this works out [16:06] man does this seem 100x harder than it should be [16:06] rick_h_: Is it compatible with the US Verizon? [16:07] so no, I'll get a prepaid ATT card to test it with before I leave [16:07] Ah, so it's AT&T then? [16:07] well it's global. Does all kinds of networks [16:07] but it's GSM and not CDMA [16:07] and not LTE [16:07] cool [16:07] Unlocked? [16:07] :( [16:07] yea, unlcoked [16:07] OK. [16:08] jcastro_: dude, I was cheap bastard when I rented, but mostly because I rented cheap places where I paid heat [16:08] I'm just working on becoming a cheaper bastard [16:08] HSPA+/HSPA/UMTS 2100/900MHz, EDGE/GPRS/GSM 1900/1800/900/850 MHz [16:08] jcastro_: I too am waering wool trousers. Mine are partly silk lined and very comfy. [16:08] but I am a technologically minded cheap bastard [16:09] jcastro_: yea, says the nest in the corner :P [16:09] so like, LED lightbulbs might be expensive, but I'm more longrun cheap [16:09] rick_h_, yeah, but it does save me money vs. the POS thermostat that was unusable before it [16:09] https://ting.com/devices/Sprint-Airave [16:09] which was so hard to use my only recourse was "heat on, heat off" because the thing was designed by morons [16:10] snap-l: I looked at the ting hotspot but only US freq [16:10] also, when we have our house party, I will show you the epic UI of my lawn sprinkler controller [16:10] Yeah, Sprint isn't international [16:10] https://ting.com/devices/Huawei-5072 CDMA 800/1900 MHz [16:10] it's basically the stupidest design I've ever seen [16:10] Damn CDMA devices. [16:10] jcastro_: hah, my neighbor's control is push button [16:10] it's crazy [16:11] jcastro_: Um, unless you have dimmer-heat, aren't most thermostats heat on / heat off? [16:11] or do you have some fancy zone control [16:11] snap-l, it's on/off [16:11] but the scheduling is automatic [16:11] ie. you don't need to program it [16:12] Yeah, we have a cheapie programmable. [16:12] after a while it knows I like it warm in the morning and cool off during the day [16:12] Won a wifi-enabled thermostat, but it's not compatible with our current house [16:12] the cool thing about the nest is actually in the summer [16:12] where it will keep the fan running but the compressor off while it cools [16:12] it can save you something like 30% [16:13] That's nice [16:13] and of course, keeping a history of all your usage is nice [16:13] stupid that they don't have an API [16:13] http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-RTH230B-5-2-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000EW5U86/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349971980&sr=8-4&keywords=honeywell+thermostat [16:13] is what I have [16:13] I am investigating whole-house energy meters so I can measure my usage [16:14] set it 6am, 68deg, then 8am 64, then 5pm, 68, then 8pm 64 [16:14] something like that [16:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFOXq_iIe4 [16:14] I asked DTW to get into this program ^^ [16:14] err, DTE [16:14] but it was a "don't call us, we'll call you" [16:29] jcastro_: They're heavily invested in the smart appliances program [16:29] forgot the acronym [16:29] yeah [16:29] It's the privacy-destroying one that people can figure out if you have your refrigerator on too high [16:29] it's just hard to get in on it [16:30] I thought it was pretty automatic [16:30] ie: get smart meter, and you're there. [16:30] I don't have a smart meter afaict [16:31] Yeah, you'd know [16:31] If you have to wait 10 seconds to read it, it's a smart meter. ;) [16:45] I don't think they started rolling them out widespread yet; there were concerns from customers [16:45] and, they'll be raising everyones rate for them [16:46] I don't think you as a customer get access to the data though; just whatever DTE gives you via their webapp [16:46] could be wrong though [16:50] widox: I think that's one of the biggest concerns [16:50] and, omg, it emits radio frequencies!!!1! [16:50] "Mr. widox, you're using way too much electricity for this residence. May we come in?" [16:51] (said in a slightly less poilite manner) [16:51] yeah - I mean I dont' see an issue with it. I'm paying for the power, they already know how much I get in total [16:53] Once you get away from aggregated numbers, people get weird. [16:53] I'm sure Richard Stallman is behind it because we can't see the source [16:53] "I don't mind if the project knows how many downloads it gets this month, but I'll burn your house down if you tell them I downloaded it" [16:54] true, but I don't think it knows what exactly is drawing power. just that a 3pm you used more then at 3am [16:55] widox: With the smart meters, it'll know what device draws what power [16:55] iirc, it sets up a mini LAN of your appliances. [16:55] each knowing how much it's drawing, and reporting that back to DTE [16:56] who then can send signals back to those unints [16:56] I think it's supposed to be the smart version of AC units in the summer on a separate, controlled circuit [16:57] ie: load gets too high, they can be intermittently shut down. [16:59] wooooooo!!!!! http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2012-October/009646.html [17:00] Ew, lxml. [17:00] Nobody uses XML anymore. ;) [17:00] heh, except breadability [17:00] Thanks for visiting our online store recently. We noticed you left some items in your cart and want to make sure you know the [17:01] +benefits of buying direct. If you experienced a problem during checkout, we'd like to help. [17:01] Shit, I left some books unpurchased at O'Reilly? [17:01] whoops [17:01] Not sure why I got that. My cart is clean. [17:02] Just found that funny: we noticed you haven't bought something. Is there a problem? [17:04] "Normally the resistance between our books and your wallet is 0 ohms, and we noted a fluctuation in that measurement" [17:20] snap-l, yeah but your appliance needs to support that [17:20] which is kind of cool because you can do "dishwasher, turn on at night when it's cheap." [17:31] rick_h_: Huawei is evil! don't buy it! [17:32] jrwren: :( [17:32] but it's the best I can come up with looking at things [17:34] it will probably crash a lot if it is like other huawei devices. [17:35] seems a common issue with all these things [17:35] I spent a while going through various amazon reviews of various devices [17:35] this one doesn't have a ton, but the other related device was rated pretty well [17:36] Huaweii devices all have a backdoor for the Chinese govt built in [17:36] yea, I'm sure they can get their free porn more easily than chasing my connection down :P [17:37] I'm seriously cranky that verizon won't unlock any of their devices :( [17:37] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006FOAV1I/ref=s9_simh_gw_p107_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=16A96XQ1BA186B3YB6NA&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846 has all kinds of issues [17:38] on several sites the hardware is rated as very poor, hot, shuts down/reboots [17:38] http://www.amazon.com/UNLOCKED-HUAWEI-HSDPA-WCDMA-MOBILE/dp/B004SLEX8C/ref=pd_ybh_5 I almost got but shipped from china and a review or two about it not being unlocked in fact [17:39] http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-ZTE-Mobile-Hotspot-Router/dp/B0084CZRKE/ref=pd_ybh_11 was the other one I considered [17:39] Oh it's unlocked. It's unlocked right to the Communist overlords [17:39] but the other one is HSPA+ [17:39] so should get better speeds if I use it on ATT ever and such [22:18] i think i'll upgrade my home server to quetzel [22:18] i mean, how much change can there be between now and release? [22:36] not much