[01:33] <Len-nb> astraljava, re: volume applet.  Fix committed, there were three apps commented out.
[01:50] <micahg> Len-nb: I assume you need a meta upload now?
[01:51] <len-dt> I would guess, though I don't know if there will be a respin before release.
[01:52] <len-dt> It must be later than I thought micahg , I didn't realize you were around
[01:53] <micahg> yeah, I'm back :)
[02:00] <micahg> len-dt: ok, meta on its way as soon as the test build finishes
[02:00] <len-dt> micahg, where would we put settings that guide an upgrade from version to version
[02:00] <len-dt> Great
[02:00] <len-dt>  micahg thank you
[02:01] <micahg> len-dt: did you tell skaet that you want a respin once that's in?
[02:01] <len-dt> No. I will... #ubuntu-release?
[02:01] <micahg> yeah
[06:39] <ailo> len-dt: Nice work. 
[06:39] <ailo> And everyone else too :)
[06:41] <Len-nb> The respin got delayed... just starting now.
[09:54] <ailo> len-dt: I have the volume applet, but there's no empty space between menu -> systray
[09:55] <ailo> The separator between "Window Buttons" and "Systray" is not expanded
[10:00] <ailo> I don't know where the file is which handles that. Trying to find it
[10:07] <ailo> Found it
[10:21] <ailo> len-dt: Would be great if you could confirm the problem with the panel layout. 
[10:21] <ailo> I updated the source for ubuntustudio-default-settings to have that separator be expanded by default
[10:23] <ailo> micahg: I've updated ubuntustudio-default-setting with one tiny commit. Any chance to have it uploaded? I haven't bumbped the debian version though. What was the recommended method?
[11:51] <astraljava> Len-nb: len-dt: The -publishing doesn't come on upgrades, if none of the currently installed packages recommend it. Seeds don't apply on upgrades.
[13:00] <len-dt> astraljava, I am less worried about publishing as it is obvious its missing. photography is half  there. What I was saying was That upgrade should not be considered as the proper way to move from 12.04 to 12.10
[13:16] <astraljava> len-dt: I think it's a matter of whether it is a supported process or not. Now it obviously isn't, so it shouldn't be advertised as one in the release notes.
[13:21] <len-dt> astraljava, a policy question then :) you may not know... should the upgrade be considered "passed" if the system is runnable after an upgrade? or should I leave it failed?
[13:22] <astraljava> len-dt: Hmm... are there proper test cases for upgrade? I'd say it has to pass all the relevant tests, just like a new install, in order to be considered successful.
[13:23] <len-dt> Ja there is a test case for upgrade. I marked it failed.
[13:24] <len-dt> I thought maybe there might be a normal script in meta or settings packge that only get run in the upgrade case we could use to fix this
[13:25] <astraljava> len-dt: There's only the tests in various pre- and post- scripts for upgrade)
[13:25] <len-dt> Just like there is a preinstall an install and a postinst
[13:26] <len-dt> That may work. Is it version specific?
[13:26] <astraljava> No, but the scripts may vary depending on version, of course.
[13:26]  * len-dt is thinking ahead to LTS->LTS
[13:27] <astraljava> Yeah. You can of course script in version checks.
[13:28] <len-dt> astraljava, it may be simpler to just add the two new metas to desktop till after the next LTS
[13:29] <astraljava> Well... more packages might not necessarily be easier to support. :) More things to remember, more things to upload...
[13:40] <len-dt> astraljava, I'm just thinking in terms of making the LTS upgradelook the same as the live ISO.
[13:41] <len-dt> (or at least closer)
[13:42] <astraljava> Vanilla may use something that's coded into do-release-upgrade. I'm not sure about those, though.
[14:34] <smartboyhw> len-dt, so you want to abolish the whole upgrade testcase?
[15:30] <len-1210> LMMS pulls in the windows fonts with the do you accept screen. How would live ISO/install deal with this?
[15:30] <len-1210> ailo, ^^
[15:31] <len-1210> And does that mean wine is in there too?
[15:31]  * len-1210 finds yes it does... VST support.
[15:32] <len-1210> this would make LMMS hard to include in our ISO as we have found before
[15:37] <smartboyhw> len-1210, er...You want to abolish the whole upgrade testcase am I correct?
[15:38] <len-1210> I don't know, I think it is broken in a way that will not be fixed for q
[15:39] <len-1210> We can leave it as failed
[15:39] <len-1210> (and won't be fixed)
[15:40] <len-1210> However, I would like more input than mine
[15:40] <smartboyhw> Anyways... len-1210 even JoseeAntonioR had to fire off an email to see who is doing the Open Week session...Are you in? ailo also?
[15:41] <len-1210> I think I mentioned it on thelist. So I expect comments there
[15:42] <len-1210> Open Week... at that time I will be walking hard and fast... probably in the rain, with both hands full.
[15:42] <smartboyhw> len-1210, eh......... so?
[15:42]  * smartboyhw should expect ailo then:D
[15:45] <smartboyhw> Anyway I am going to sleep scott-work/ScottL ailo stochastic len-1210 holstein just reply the email back to JoseeAntonioR if you want to do the session, got to sleep bye!
[15:45] <len-1210> bye
[16:06]  * holstein checking the scheule to see
[16:34] <ailo> len-dt: We need to do whatever we are doing with jackd
[17:02] <len-dt> LMMS also doesn't end up in the menu :P  ailo not sure what you mena about jack
[17:02]  * len-dt is on his way out the door...
[17:19] <ailo> len-dt: Normally you answer y/n to realtime when installing jackd. The iso install does that automatically
[17:20] <ailo> There is one difference though
[17:20] <ailo> I guess something about licensing?
[17:21] <ailo> len-dt: Did you try the latest ISO? Did you also have a non-expanded separator on the top panel?
[19:55] <len-dt> Latest ISO still has non-expanded sep.
[19:56] <len-dt> ailo, when upgrading jack the config should not change.
[20:10] <len-dt> ailo, in my opinion... the ubuntu version of jackd should look at the kernel and if it is lowlat. put in yes and no otherwise. It really shouldn't need a people to answer that question. The only reason to not have jack RT is if the kernel can't give it.
[20:34] <ailo> len-dt: You need the realtime option also with -generic, to get any kind of good performance
[20:34] <ailo> len-dt: The package is designed with Debian in mind
[20:35] <ailo> Users belong to audio group by default on Debian, so all you require in order to get realtime privilege is the file that the jackd package adds to /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
[20:35] <len-dt> ailo, wine fonts being a license really should have the user read and ok. Hitting yes for them is probably not legal.
[20:36] <ailo> len-dt: Question is if we are allowed to distribute or not. If yes, all we need to do is add info on the download page
[20:37] <ailo> len-dt: The reason why users are asked about putting the audio.conf file is because some say it poses a security issue
[20:37] <len-dt> The font installer is separate and could be run after ISO install 
[20:37] <len-dt> ailo, I didn't know that
[20:38] <ailo> len-dt: There are different opinions as to which way would be the best way to achieve realtime privilege
[20:38] <ailo> Some would rather have rtkit handle it
[20:39] <ailo> But, since we just get the solution directly from Debian, we get what we get
[20:39] <len-dt> Ya, when if they change so do we.
[20:40] <ailo> len-dt: About ubuntustudio-default-settings. Procedure for updating the changelog? There was a command to do that based on commits, I believe..
[20:41] <ailo> I would like to solve that first, and then try to get anyone to upload it
[20:41] <len-dt> I have been putting the comments in changelog and then pasting to commit.
[20:42] <len-dt> I happen to use joe to edit so the text is normally still on the screen anyway.
[20:42] <ailo> Ok. I think there was a command to create the changelog automatically based on commits
[20:42] <ailo> Too tired to investigate right now
[20:42] <ailo> Maybe micahg will turn up tomorrow, and we can wrap it up quickly
[20:43] <len-dt> Yes I have heard there is... I would think it was some BZR command but it seems to me it is a deb* command.
[20:43] <ailo> dch is the debian script that you usually use for updating Debian package changelogs
[20:44] <len-dt> ailo,  it looks like the MSfonts package is optional.
[20:44] <ailo> In this case, I believe it was a bzr / debian tool
[20:45] <ailo> len-dt: Ah, right. Then we just do a "no" for the ISO install. And if we could add a thing at first login, which tells you there are unfinished tasks, that would be the best I think
[20:46] <len-dt> See the comment in the mailing list too. from Eric
[20:46] <len-dt> ailo, we could "blacklist" the fonts
[20:47]  * falktx jumps in
[20:48] <falktx> LMMS doesnt have any piece of non-free code in it
[20:48] <falktx> Wine is the one responsible for pulling the ms fonts
[20:48] <falktx> any app that relies on wine will pull those
[20:48] <len-dt> It is just the ms fonts, but they are recommends
[20:49] <len-dt> We had issues with wine before breaking the amd64 ISO build.
[20:49] <falktx> lmms on 64bit doesn't use wine afaik
[20:50] <falktx> somehow it's not possible to build wine64 stuff on launchpad
[20:50] <len-dt> So it has a different feature set?
[20:50] <falktx> yes
[20:50] <falktx> only the 32bit has the vst support
[20:50] <len-dt> Sounds nice for support :P
[20:51] <falktx> I want to find out why wine-64bit fails to install on the launchpad builds, I need it for my tools
[20:51] <falktx> it's very weird, something related to multiarch, but complicated
[20:51] <len-dt> If it is included on the LIVE ISO it would have to be without the licenced fonts.
[20:52] <ailo> I find wine 32bit/64bit a bit confusing. I think most things I run on wine are 32bit, but then some 32bit stuff don't seem to work
[20:52] <ailo> Should be possible to run 32bit vst on amd64 wine?
[20:52] <falktx> yes
[20:52] <falktx> it works just fine
[20:53] <len-dt> That would make sense
[20:53] <falktx> building wine64 binaries on launchpad is the issue
[20:53] <falktx> this is why the 64bit build of lmms doesn't have vst
[23:30] <micahg> ailo: bumping changelog after a released version is dch -i -DUNRELEASED