[13:24] <Garheade> Odd. Event Time Announcer is listing the Community Council meeting at 2 pm now... I wonder how I messed that up?
[16:05] <Garheade> Meeting started early on #ubuntu-meeting
[16:06] <FunnyLookinHat> That's the server team
[16:07] <Garheade> Ah. I see.
[16:08] <Garheade> I'm a bit of a virgin at this process
[16:08] <FunnyLookinHat> :)
[16:23] <nealmcb> This page was opened for editing or last previewed at 2012-10-16 09:21:09 by stokes91.
[16:23] <nealmcb> You should refrain from editing this page for at least another 9 minute(s), to avoid editing conflicts.
[16:24] <nealmcb> i.e. good news: just before I started editing the LoCo Council web page to add us, Alex did the same thing, I guess
[16:24] <nealmcb> Garheade: yeah - this is a good place to practice :)
[16:25] <Garheade> My browser crashed when looking at the page. I'll get out asap
[16:27] <Garheade> I should be out.
[16:30] <Garheade> Sorry, wrong chat
[16:32] <nealmcb> You're in!
[16:38] <Garheade> ??
[16:39] <nealmcb> Garheade: you said "I should be out", but here you are.  You're in. :)
[16:39] <nealmcb> just being silly
[16:39] <Garheade> lol!
[16:39] <Garheade> My stupid work has me brain fried today
[16:40] <nealmcb> I recommend the smart work instead
[16:40] <Garheade> I reserve the smart work for when I'm working on my own projects
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> Hmm
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> Still not seeing us on the loco agenda
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> Might be me ?
[16:41] <nealmcb> Nope - I agree, and wrote back
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda ?
[16:41] <nealmcb> I'll just add it
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> Ah ok
[16:41] <FunnyLookinHat> thx.
[16:42] <FunnyLookinHat> Wikis are both the best and worst thing for LoCo teams it seems....  :)
[16:42] <Garheade> Amen
[16:42] <nealmcb> FunnyLookinHat: It says you're editing it but I'll ignore that, ok?
[16:42] <FunnyLookinHat> Yeah ignore
[16:42] <FunnyLookinHat> I don't even have it open...
[16:44] <nealmcb> Done
[16:46] <Garheade> I see it...
[16:57] <Garheade> If the agenda is accurate, this will be a short meeting
[16:59] <stokes91_> Hiya guys!
[17:00] <FunnyLookinHat> yo
[17:01] <Garheade> o/
[17:01] <stokes91_> o/
[18:01] <nealmcb> ...missed him!
[18:06] <Garheade> You're just going to have to try harder next time.
[19:51] <FunnyLookinHat> Hey everyone - nealmcb kweinert mfisch rockstar - we'd love for you to join us in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes for our re-approval.
[19:51] <mfisch> ok
[19:53] <stokes91> o/
[19:55] <nealmcb> FunnyLookinHat: Thanks!
[19:59] <ToyKeeper> Every time I reconnect to my proxy for freenode, it kicks me off for flooding.  I think that's xchat sending '/who #chan' messages too fast.
[20:06] <kweinert> Why is the #ubuntu-meeting about the hungarian reapproval?  Am I just misunderstanding something here?
[20:07] <FunnyLookinHat> kweinert, two teams were on the agenda
[20:07] <FunnyLookinHat> Hungarian and us  :)
[20:07] <Garheade> There are two LoCo's up for reaproval
[20:07] <kweinert> Ah, ok - thanks.
[20:15] <mfisch> do we need to say anything?
[20:16] <FunnyLookinHat> Laura will ask the questions  :)
[20:16] <FunnyLookinHat> cz*
[20:25] <joey> btw, I just transfered the rest of rocks over to Nick. I think the site needs to be updated
[20:25] <FunnyLookinHat> yeah
[20:26] <med_> sorry.
[20:27] <mfisch> the main issue I have with the loco is time and driving to denver/boulder
[20:27] <mfisch> which is really a question of time still
[20:31] <Garheade> Ok, well, we have some work to do.
[20:32] <nealmcb> So much for "the oldest, continually active US loco team"....  But we'll be BAAAACK!
[20:32] <nealmcb> So much for "the oldest, continually active US state loco team"....  But we'll be BAAAACK!
[20:32] <joey> mfisch: +1
[20:33] <joey> nealmcb: +1
[20:33] <joey> I had a back channel with Laura going
[20:33] <joey> I'm hopeful that it meant the different between -1 and +0
[20:33] <joey> she noted the recent email rush
[20:33] <joey> and the number of folks attending today
[20:33] <joey> etc
[20:33] <joey> and carried that over to the loco council's back channel
[20:34] <nealmcb> But that's actually what my vote would have been, I think. Though maybe as a "stay alive just barely" rather than "expire"
[20:34] <joey> yeah me too
[20:34] <joey> I was hoping they might give us a 6 month extension but I guess they don't do that any longer
[20:35] <Garheade> Well, it didn't help, going after that other loco...
[20:35] <Garheade> It's like having a clown on stage after Galager.
[20:35] <nealmcb> We do have 'competition' from a plethora of other techie groups here.  So coordination with other groups would be great.  If I'd seen earlier that jim was talking to the LUG I would have told coloco....
[20:36] <nealmcb> 26000 members on their mailing list!
[20:36] <Garheade> And their wiki? I need more time in my days.
[20:37] <nealmcb> Garheade: or just clone yourself!  Much better long term....
[20:37] <mfisch> we should be able to get much more members from denver
[20:37] <Garheade> Eh... I think its better for the world if theres only one of me around.
[20:38] <Garheade> Well, we have 6 months to improve.
[20:42] <P05TMAN> Ok, we'll that was a disappointing meeting.
[20:43] <P05TMAN> *well
[20:48] <ToyKeeper> ... and I missed the meeting because a personal thing came up at exactly the same time.  My partner just got dropped from the last class she needs to graduate, because of bad luck and a very inflexible teacher.
[20:52] <Garheade> ToyKeeper: Sorry to hear that.
[20:54] <Garheade> I gotta bail for a bit. ttyl
[21:08] <P05TMAN> joey, nealmcb, is it possible that the reason that there are so few members on our list because they don't have a launchpad ID? Or do you have to have one in order to be in the mailing list in the first place
[21:09] <FunnyLookinHat> We have a ton on Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~coloradoteam/+members
[21:09] <FunnyLookinHat> I think they saw "25+ Active Members" and "rounded down" so to speak
[21:09] <joey> we should probably add an expiry to the LP team
[21:09] <FunnyLookinHat> Next time we should probably say something like "nearly 300 members" and ignore the active status
[21:10] <FunnyLookinHat> joey, Is there a way to set a batch expiration on everyone and ask them to ping us ?
[21:10] <joey> yes. an admin can run a LP api script to do that
[21:11] <FunnyLookinHat> API, eh?
[21:11] <FunnyLookinHat> :D
[21:11] <joey> we need to figure out just what that should be though
[21:11] <joey> it's better I think to set everyone to expire and then re-up every X days..  365?
[21:12] <FunnyLookinHat> 365 should be good I'd think
[21:12] <FunnyLookinHat> What makes an 'active' member though?
[21:12] <FunnyLookinHat> You make a good point in your email - a few of us who are most passionate about ubuntu and whatnot are realistically the most busy ones and least likely to be able to make it to events.
[21:12] <joey> set in the mgt interface
[21:12] <FunnyLookinHat> We just spam the mailing list with our Ghost Hunting meeting invites...  ;)
[21:13] <joey> let me see what the API can do for us
[21:13] <joey> lol
[21:15] <P05TMAN> FunnyLookinHat Can't we have meetings/meet ups via Google+ hang outs? Even IRC would be good. It could be a start.
[21:16] <P05TMAN> :-D
[21:16] <FunnyLookinHat> P05TMAN, yeah totally
[21:16] <FunnyLookinHat> We've tried more IRC-ish meetings... but iirc, it was sort of a "Ok great, we're on IRC...  now what?"
[21:16] <FunnyLookinHat> meaning the most valuable conversation still happens via the mailing list
[21:17] <FunnyLookinHat> More frequent meetings in person that were more geographically distributed might be a good idea though
[21:17] <FunnyLookinHat> a la Alex's idea to do "coffee + ubuntu + _____" meetings
[21:18] <P05TMAN> I know that with my school and work schedule, it's hard for me to attend many events. I would love to contribute, however, in the best way possible. I can help document the goings on of any and all smaller group meetings and events, I'm just not really sure how. So if someone can show me what to do, i have plenty of time to keep that updated while at work.
[21:20] <FunnyLookinHat> P05TMAN, well, G+ hangouts are a good idea.. you should connect with Alex and see if you want to run game with those
[21:20] <FunnyLookinHat> Or anything of that sort.
[21:20] <FunnyLookinHat> de-centralized is key in a state like ours with people all over  :)
[21:20] <P05TMAN> Ok.
[21:21] <P05TMAN> And that shouldn't be too much of an issue if we can create our own CoLoCo Google+ hangout. It would make documentation easier too.
[21:36] <P05TMAN> sorry, closed connection an accident
[22:01] <joey> FunnyLookinHat: voila https://launchpad.net/~coloradoteam/+members
[22:08] <FunnyLookinHat> joey, THANKS!
[22:23] <nealmcb> Huh?  Why expire people?  Then there are fewer to be alerted of events....
[22:24] <nealmcb> joey: Unless we also send a message of what we expect from "active" members...
[22:25] <joey> don't confuse the LP team with the mailing list
[22:25] <joey> they are two separate membership lists
[22:25] <joey> and the forums is a third
[22:25] <nealmcb> but what's the point?
[22:25] <nealmcb> And without input from Alex?
[22:26] <joey> the point should be obvious
[22:26] <joey> what don't you get
[22:27] <joey> or the more pc way of saying that is, help me understand what you don't understand
[22:27] <nealmcb> Who is leading the team?  What is their opinion?
[22:27] <nealmcb> What is your goal?
[22:27] <joey> did you see my email?
[22:28] <nealmcb> Yes.  And I came here to see the conversation, which doesn't clarify anything for me
[22:29] <nealmcb> I thought the problem was the perception that we had too few members, a misperception
[22:29] <nealmcb> It may turn into reality as people hear the team is dead, officially
[22:30] <joey> yeah. the LP team is just a way of showing you like the group... it's not use for access control anywhere so the fact that we have 293 people on it doesn't mean much except for those collecting teams
[22:30] <joey> to show on their LP page
[22:30] <joey> but it is looked at in part during the approval process
[22:30] <nealmcb> collecting teams?
[22:30] <joey> so if we say we have 25 active and yet we have 293 on LP then there's a problem
[22:30] <joey> re collecting teams - people try to belong to as many teams as possible in LP to show their interest. Teams become a type of badge
[22:31] <nealmcb> Sorry, I still don't see exactly why
[22:31] <nealmcb> So how many are on the mailing list?
[22:31] <joey> I don't know but i could look
[22:31] <joey> actually I don't think I can
[22:31] <joey> I don't have privs to the ML
[22:31] <FunnyLookinHat> I do...
[22:31] <FunnyLookinHat> sec.
[22:31] <joey> I gave everything away when I stepped down
[22:32] <nealmcb> But my main point is that we should actually talk about it, make a plan, and have Alex involved
[22:32] <FunnyLookinHat> err
[22:32] <FunnyLookinHat> maybe I don't.
[22:32] <FunnyLookinHat> nealmcb, The problem was that we had a list of "293 members" on launchpad... and realistically we don't know how accurate that is.
[22:33] <FunnyLookinHat> So the best way to gauge our numbers is to expire everyone and let them all re-sub if they're still paying any attention... then go from there.
[22:33] <joey> I think Neal's point is that you and I FunnyLookinHat are not Alex and if we want Alex to be the leader we should block on him for every decision
[22:33] <FunnyLookinHat> Yeah - agreed.
[22:33] <joey> I gave up blocking on ppl a long time ago
[22:33] <joey> I'd rather ask for forgiveness
[22:34] <FunnyLookinHat> yeah - I forgive you
[22:34] <FunnyLookinHat> ;)
[22:34] <joey> although frankly the way nealmcb is talking I might as well remove myself from the team :-)
[22:34] <nealmcb> There's a difference between blocking on people, and giving leaders a chance to chime in
[22:34] <joey> I clearly have lost touch
[22:35] <FunnyLookinHat> eh - so have I apparently  :)
[22:35] <joey> I'll email alex off list now about it
[22:35] <FunnyLookinHat> thx
[22:36] <nealmcb> Thanks.  Moving to some clarity on what the different mechanisms can and / or should be used for would help.  lp vs mailing list (which CAN be the same I think) vs others (and the whole nebulous connection to Kevin's group)
[22:37] <nealmcb> Catering to the communication preferences of the main communicators helps a lot, I figure
[22:37] <joey> sent
[22:38] <joey> I also suggested he reclaim the LP team ownership from Nick  :-)
[22:39] <nealmcb> I like the hangouts idea also.  We could add a google plus page to the mix.  Or say we have way too many kinds of ids and groups already....
[22:40] <FunnyLookinHat> LP / Wikis / Mailing Lists / etc. are all too much overhead for a group anyways.
[22:40] <nealmcb> But the main thing is some events and activities.....  So easy to spin out on the technology, certainly for me ;/
[22:40] <joey> FunnyLookinHat: +1
[22:40] <FunnyLookinHat> 1) What's the point of an LP team other than verification for CDs ?
[22:41] <nealmcb> Well I always it was supposed to be a good single-sign-on mechanism, but not sure if it actually functions well for that
[22:41] <FunnyLookinHat> 2) Mailing list: I get that we can use Canonical's resources - and that's great and gives us a bit of an official seal - but that was started before there were 1000 free email list services.
[22:41] <FunnyLookinHat> nealmcb, single-sign-on for what though?  Related to the LoCo it's more or less worthless.
[22:41] <nealmcb> and it does encourage actual lp membership which is an important hurdle for bug reporting etc
[22:42] <FunnyLookinHat> "Join the LP team!" "Why?" "I ... don't know."
[22:42] <joey> wow 16 presidential choices on the ballot
[22:42] <FunnyLookinHat> Yeah I suppose.
[22:42] <FunnyLookinHat> joey, shut up, really ? what ballot ?
[22:42] <joey> just got the boulder general election ballot in the mail
[22:42] <FunnyLookinHat> Ah
[22:43] <FunnyLookinHat> I'm voting in person this year...  figured it'd be fun.  :)
[22:44] <nealmcb> sso for all kinds of things - anything launchpad can manage, wikis, anything a web page can do, given hooks to the sso, etc.  I HATE telling new members to separately get lp, irc, web page, and other ids for the sorts of collaboration we SHOULD be doing
[22:45] <FunnyLookinHat> What sort of collaboration do we need beyond email ?  As a baseline, I mean.
[22:47] <nealmcb> Again it comes down to what we're about.  If it's a bunch of observers, sometimes going to party, then we may not warrart being a team.  If we try to do stuff like help with and promote Ubuntu, fix bugs, contribute to software, share ideas, hang out and collaborate online, then sso seems useful.  why else was it invented?
[22:47] <FunnyLookinHat> Yeah good point.
[22:47] <FunnyLookinHat> We'll have to see what the team wants I suppose.  Thus far it's been release parties.
[22:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Case in point - that Ubuntu Hour meeting that about 15 people said they'd be at - NONE showed up.  Just System76ers ( and that was only because Fabian was visiting S76 )
[22:48] <FunnyLookinHat> That's ultimately why I stopped scheduling non-release-parties...  I got tired of waiting for 20-30 minutes and then leaving.
[22:48] <nealmcb> Ahh - wondered why I never got a response to my query about that
[22:48] <FunnyLookinHat> query ?
[22:49] <FunnyLookinHat> Ah - "Who all showed up?"
[22:49] <FunnyLookinHat> yeah I didn't want to say "nobody" and be a bummer  :)
[22:49] <nealmcb> mail on 2012-09-29 09:08 Neal "Who all showed up?  Any pictures?  :)"
[22:50] <FunnyLookinHat> Anyways - I'm heading out... :)
[22:50] <FunnyLookinHat> today was busy on IRC!
[22:56] <joey> at least I was honest and said I couldn't come to that :-)
[22:57] <P05TMAN> So, what happens to our IRC channel after 10/22...is it abolished
[22:57] <joey> nope
[22:57] <P05TMAN> That's good.
[22:58] <joey> email, LP team, irc, etc stay the same
[22:58] <joey> we just get removed off the official roster of approved teams
[22:58] <P05TMAN> oh.
[22:59] <nealmcb> ... which means we can't get some freebies from Ubuntu like CDs
[23:00] <P05TMAN> So we can all pitch in and buy bulk CDs from newegg. They're not too expensive.
[23:00] <joey> it's probably better for us to burn a few and run an install-a-thon like CLUE does
[23:01] <joey> last I checked the usb creator is broken on Quantal
[23:01] <joey> as are both my nvidia computers
[23:01] <P05TMAN> What is CLUE?
[23:02] <joey> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcluedenver.org%2F&ei=hed9UKPmBo7yrAHb4oCICQ&usg=AFQjCNE0g94q_g8PJuO8D0iRd13cEteBGQ
[23:02] <joey> eew
[23:02] <joey> sorry
[23:02] <joey> http://cluedenver.org/
[23:02] <P05TMAN> lol, much better
[23:04] <joey> the problem I had early on was justifying why we needed a dedicated Ubuntu team when we had such a vibrant set of LUGs
[23:04] <joey> and to this day I don't think any of the LUGs link to us
[23:06] <joey> ok I'm shutting down... I need a break
[23:06] <joey> see you all later
[23:06] <joey> I'll look for the hate mail in my inbox :-)
[23:06] <P05TMAN> bye...me too