[00:00] <greg-g> brousch: I don't get the mandarin tweet
[00:08] <Mneumonic> Hi everyone.  Never even knew there was a channel for Michigan Ubuntu users until tonight.
[00:10] <snap-l> Hey Mneumonic, welcome!
[00:11] <Mneumonic> Glad to meet other Michigan Ubuntu users.  It seems that nobody around here has even heard of Linux
[00:11] <snap-l> Where abouts?
[00:11] <Mneumonic> I'm currently in Clawson
[00:11] <snap-l> Ah, very cool
[00:12] <Mneumonic> to be fair, i only recently moved back to Michigan, so I don't know many people in the area to know if people use linux or not :p
[00:12] <snap-l> heh
[00:12] <snap-l> Yeah, there's a thriving linux community here
[00:12] <Mneumonic> very awesome!
[00:13] <snap-l> THere's also a Michigan UNIX Users Group which has a heavy Linux bias
[00:13] <snap-l> http://mug.org
[00:13] <Mneumonic> it even has a podcast?
[00:15] <snap-l> One of the MUG members has a podcast, called Saturday Morning Linux Review
[00:16] <snap-l> actually, several folks are on that show.
[00:16] <Mneumonic> That is great!  I am always looking for new linux podcasts.
[00:24] <Blazeix> snap-l: ah-hah! i knew i wasn't crazy http://linux.die.net/man/1/pkg-config
[00:24] <Blazeix> about this
[12:04] <snap-l> rick_h_: http://identi.ca/notice/97406686
[12:05] <brousch> Crazy Cat People from the sound of it
[12:11] <rick_h_> snap-l: :P
[12:12] <nullspace> yawn
[12:15] <brousch> Rick's Ranting Raving Ringtail Racoon is Ubuntu 13.04
[12:16] <rick_h_> :P
[12:17] <brousch> Wait, Raring, not Raving
[12:21] <brousch> I realized last night that I have no urge to install 12.10. I feel like Kubuntu 12.04 is really damn good on my desktop and 12.04 servers are all I need
[12:21] <brousch> I might sit on this for 2 years
[12:28] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm sticking with 12.04 for now
[12:28] <snap-l> There's no compelling reason for me to switch right now
[12:28] <snap-l> though I need to get $WORKMACHINE to 12.04
[12:29] <brousch> I'm running only 10.04 and 12.04 right now
[12:29] <snap-l> I have 11.10 at work
[12:29] <snap-l> haven't had the desire to screw up my machine quite yet. :)
[12:29] <rick_h_> web app integration not pulling you in? AMZ buying from unity?
[12:30] <rick_h_> :P
[12:30] <snap-l> rick_h_: The only thing really pulling me in is the software render for Unity
[12:30] <brousch> Unity does not excite me at all
[12:30] <snap-l> And that's nice for VMs
[12:31] <brousch> My VMs are all servers or Windows
[12:31] <snap-l> rick_h_: I chalk up the AMZ integration as Mark's version of "One more thing" ala Steve Jobs
[12:32] <snap-l> except his "One more thing"s tend to be features that send the community into a tailspin
[12:32] <snap-l> right or wrong
[12:35] <nullspace> gah no marketplace morning report podcast this morning, wtf
[14:00] <brousch> Oh great, now rick_h_ can lint our code right from the web http://lint.io/
[14:01] <rick_h_> watch out
[14:26] <jrwren> hail ringtail!
[14:26] <jrwren> err, wrong hail homenym ?
[14:26] <jrwren> err, wow, I cannot spell
[14:27] <jrwren> Blazeix: what about pkg-config?
[14:27] <snap-l> So is this new version of Ubuntu going to root through garbage, and get cantankerous when you try to shoo it away?
[14:28] <snap-l> jrwren: Was trying to remember it's name.
[14:28] <jrwren> brousch: move to 12.10, the opentack stuff is much more refined. this is the release that really gets it right.
[14:29] <brousch> I don't need openstack stuff
[14:29] <brousch> I am small
[14:29] <jrwren> you need it, you just don't know it.
[14:30] <brousch> What are you, Steve Jobs?
[14:30] <jrwren> certainly not
[14:30] <snap-l> Y'know, I never saw Steve Jobs and Jay Wren in the same room together ever
[14:30] <snap-l> hmmmm
[14:31] <rick_h_> you're supposed to use lxc and juju and build yourself a sputnick laptop
[14:31] <rick_h_> and enjoy the new improved unity with more shiny
[14:31] <snap-l> I swear, people must think we just make shit up
[14:32] <rick_h_> damn, sputnik I fail
[14:38] <jrwren> whoa, Bill Hill died of a sudden heart attack.
[14:40] <jjesse> yeah i saw that, it sucks
[14:40] <jjesse> recently posted a blog entry on his new startup if i remember correctly
[14:41] <jjesse> in case anyone cares the Kubuntu official release is up for downloading
[14:41] <jjesse> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/quantal/release/
[14:43] <jrwren> oh, we are official now? i wondered why i didn't have many updates :)
[14:45] <jjesse> at least kubuntu is official
[14:45] <jjesse> for a download
[14:45] <jjesse> the do-release-upgrade bits haven't flipped for me
[14:45] <brousch> jjesse: Let me know if anything blows up
[14:46] <jjesse> brousch, will do
[14:54] <jrwren> make sure you aren't pointing to lts only
[14:55] <jrwren> /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades  should say Prompt=normal, not lts
[14:56] <jrwren> and I think every lts upgrade changes this back to lts
[14:56] <jrwren> so you need to change it to normal after every lts reelase.
[15:37] <rick_h_> brousch: http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/10/python-web-pep8-consistency.html now this guys will really get you
[15:40] <snap-l> Wow, that's a brilliant metric
[15:40] <snap-l> So, when are we moving to wheezy.web?
[16:00] <brousch> Django beats PYramid!
[16:08] <jrwren> those metrics are foolish
[16:08] <jrwren> i sure hope no one makes decisions based on them.
[16:11] <greg-g> I love the image associated with this article (haven't read the article yet):
[16:11] <greg-g> http://opensource.com/life/12/10/david-eaves-says-we-should-use-soft-skills-manage-communities
[16:12] <rick_h_> brousch: I don't get that. 10709 > 3627 + 266 + 1398
[16:12] <rick_h_> he says pyramid += chameleon + webob
[16:12] <rick_h_> ah, but this is per LoC in the graph
[16:38] <greg-g> Why Geeks Love Wood: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2506016/highlight/27427
[16:38] <greg-g> rick_h_: ^^
[16:39] <greg-g> can't hear him very well, but, yeah
[16:42] <rick_h_> greg-g: heh, just watching my new DVD that came in the mail today over some soup for lunch http://blip.tv/popular-woodworking-videos/build-a-sawbench-with-christopher-schwarz-8211-trailer-4320520
[16:45] <greg-g> rick_h_: what's the purpose of the triangle cutout on the top bar?
[16:45] <greg-g> brb, call
[16:52] <snap-l> brousch: http://identi.ca/event/ef358f4c-021c-4eca-b457-c815b41b5dff
[16:53] <rick_h_> greg-g: it's for taking a board (say 6" wide by 5' long) and 'ripping' it down it's length. Say, into two 3" wide by 5' long boards
[16:53] <rick_h_> it helps the two parts stay supported as you cut down the middle there
[17:09] <greg-g> rick_h_: oh, so you put that bench under the long board the long way and cut down the center of the longboard?
[17:09] <rick_h_> greg-g: right
[17:09] <greg-g> sweet
[17:10] <greg-g> I have my grandpa's old wood working toolbox at my parent's place. He was a carpenter (along with farmer) and built a couple houses.
[17:10] <rick_h_> it's kind of cool. I bought some extra lumber from a guy last night
[17:10] <greg-g> haven't had a chance to use them, yet, unfortunately, but I love his toolbox. It's a big heavy wooden box with levels and such for everything.
[17:10] <rick_h_> he got laid off of work and ended up building kitchens for a couple of people while looking for work
[17:11] <greg-g> he was definitely one of those awesome old guys from that era who could fix anything and make almost everything
[17:11] <greg-g> nice
[17:12] <rick_h_> greg-g: http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/09/20/white-star-line-tool-chest/ kind of cool speaking of old toolbox stuff
[17:12] <jrwren> greg-g: that could be you, if you wanted to be.
[17:13] <greg-g> jrwren: honestly, I need to stop with all of my excuses and start working towards that
[17:15] <jrwren> if it is something you enjoy, then do it.
[17:15] <jrwren> me, I like the idea of it more than I like actually doing it.
[17:15] <jrwren> i'll stick to my c-code and starcraft for enjoyment :)
[17:15] <rick_h_> yea, my big goal/lesson this time around is to enjoy the work itself
[17:15] <rick_h_> less than just trying to get the result
[17:15] <greg-g> word
[17:16] <rick_h_> because it takes for ever in spare time to get the thing and you end up getting all in your head with things not moving fast enough, etc
[17:16] <rick_h_> this way they come out better because I'm taking the time to just enjoy the time in the garage, so doing almost all hand tools, no dust mask, headphones, just a box stereo in the corner of the garage
[17:17] <greg-g> awesome
[17:17] <rick_h_> smoser: is there an AMI for 12.10 out?
[17:17] <greg-g> unfortunately, I picked the exact wrong city for this (well, along with NYC)
[17:18] <rick_h_> smoser: not seeing it in the list http://cloud.ubuntu.com/ami/
[17:18] <greg-g> yes yes, I need to move back
[17:18] <rick_h_> greg-g: heh yea, you'd be surprised though.
[17:19] <rick_h_> http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/09/28/sam-cappo-a-woodworker-you-should-meet/ and on his blog http://planedetails.com/?p=104
[17:19] <snap-l> greg-g: Just vent it into your neighbors house, and call it high fiber, all natural, vegan air.
[17:19] <rick_h_> greg-g: and then there are guys that do the shared workspace thing for work space, though that's a lot less convienent
[17:19] <greg-g> snap-l: :P
[17:19] <greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, the shared space would be cool to learn at, though
[17:19] <rick_h_> yea, definitely
[17:20] <snap-l> greg-g: You'd pay good money for that at WHole Foods. ;)
[17:24] <greg-g> actually, I could probably sell the saw dust (for cheap) to people doing composting toliets :)
[17:24] <greg-g> (probably just give away, can't imagine others actually sell it)
[17:25] <rick_h_> yea, some buy it to put into those hoppers that make the little wood pellets for fuel
[17:26] <rick_h_> for mulch, some stuff keeps bugs away
[17:26] <rick_h_> though some woods, like walnut, are bad for plants and you can't use
[17:26] <brousch> Composting toilets?
[17:26] <brousch> When there's a perfectly good sewer system in place?
[17:26] <rick_h_> I stopped reading with composting, was enough for me :P
[17:27] <nullspace> damn it mid day update podcast is delayed too, wtf is going on are their scripts messed up are the tubes clogged, or is this all being done by an intern with a hangover
[17:27] <rick_h_> I vote hangover!
[17:28] <nullspace> you'd think this whole thing would be automated...
[17:28] <rick_h_> that takes someone that knows how to do it
[17:28] <rick_h_> you know it's some intern in the corner that has to do it
[17:28] <greg-g> brousch: / rick_h_ as someone who used a bucket in an outhouse with sawdust to cover each, uh, use, I can attest that the smell is practically non-existent. Plus, that stuff is AMAZING fruit tree fertilizer
[17:29] <brousch> Please move out of the city to do those things
[17:29] <greg-g> the bucket outhouse was in rural missouri, indeed
[17:30] <jrwren> oh yeah, i wanted to watch Mark S.'s openstack keynote. was it recorded? is it posted on web?
[17:31] <greg-g> uhhhhhhh
[17:31] <greg-g> http://ubuntu.virginmedia.com/releases//quantal/ubuntu-12.10-desktop-amd64.iso
[17:31] <greg-g> that's what I got when I went through the online ubuntu.com download process (and clicked that I don't want to pay now)
[17:32] <rick_h_> jrwren: it was streamed
[17:32] <rick_h_> not sure if it was recorded
[17:32] <rick_h_> was cool to check out since he intro'd the juju gui
[17:32] <brousch> Ubuntu isn't released until jcastro_ tells me it's released
[17:33] <jrwren> greg-g: torrent?
[17:33] <greg-g> haha http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/thank-you?release=latest&bits=64&distro=desktop&status=zeroc
[17:35] <nullspace> intern comment got the podcast out
[17:36] <rick_h_> nullspace: what podcast gets you all in a bunch?
[17:36] <nullspace> APM marketplace
[17:36] <nullspace> they have a morning and mid-day show
[17:37] <nullspace> they usually get the podcast out pretty quickly, except lately it's gotten a little slow
[17:37] <rick_h_> meh, it's a podcast
[17:38] <brousch> You should express your anger in a sharply-worded tweet
[17:38] <nullspace> yeah except they have a release time on the webpage
[17:39] <nullspace> brousch: already did, it got the wheel turning
[17:39]  * rick_h_ is always impressed with how big a dvd file actually is :/
[17:39] <brousch> 4GB
[17:39] <snap-l> Yeah, DVDs are good sized
[17:40]  * snap-l had an idea to have the record companies use FLAC files on DVDs for their next format
[17:40] <rick_h_> I got thinking "I'll just rip this dvd and backup the iso to s3 so I have a copy...boy that's taking a while to dd...1.5GB...this is going to take a while to upload to s3
[17:40] <snap-l> but it appears they would rather go with DVD-Audio (which is dead), SACD (which is copy-protected by having no devices on computers that support it) or Blueray Audio
[17:42] <brousch> rick_h_: Do you use a client to upload to S3?
[17:42] <rick_h_> brousch: no, just a .py script
[17:42] <brousch> Maybe something that can do it in chunks
[17:43] <rick_h_> 2.2GB ugh
[17:43]  * rick_h_ needs more upload BW
[17:43] <rick_h_> heh, upload it on my 4g mifi...go fast but use my whole month's BW allotment
[17:45] <brousch> geez
[17:46] <greg-g> rick_h_: thoughts on the anarchists tool chest book?
[17:47] <rick_h_> greg-g: It's on my list to get to, but currently backlogged with the jointer and cabinetmaker and some stuff on the shakers
[17:47] <rick_h_> Since I work out of my garage I'm more interested in hanging tool cabinets and such than a toolbox that'd take up floor space atm
[17:47] <greg-g> ahhh, good point
[17:49] <rick_h_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ui9i4map2owz6vv/2012-10-13%2020.52.04.jpg
[17:49] <rick_h_> though I am getting my hand tool collection into shape :)
[17:55] <greg-g> ok ok, back to work, enough wood pron videos
[17:55] <rick_h_> :)
[17:57] <brousch> rick_h_: S3 multipart upload http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/uploadobjusingmpu.html
[17:58] <rick_h_> brousch: cool yea they support it
[17:58] <rick_h_> just my little python script using boto doesn't do it that way
[17:58] <brousch> Fix it!
[17:58] <rick_h_> dude, I didn't even get done with bookie rss feeds last night
[17:59] <jrwren> snap-l: there is no next format.
[18:34] <smoser> rick_h_, i think that is somewhat deprecated . i hate that they did that. i'll poke around a bit.
[18:34] <smoser> rick_h_, https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/quantal/release/
[18:36] <rick_h_> smoser: thanks
[18:36] <rick_h_> smoser: yea, I had to look I know they changed it up a bit but had a guy in an irc channel asking and figured they'd be somewhere
[18:50] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, CDs are pretty much the defacto standard for physical media
[18:50] <snap-l> Though SACD has a foothold in Classical