[09:32] <tdr112> hey czajkowski do you remeber these guys at ossbarcamp http://www.careersportal.ie/news/news.php?Heading=Dublin+teenager%27s+developes+software++&ID=19101201
[09:33] <czajkowski> yup
[09:36] <czajkowski> but now they are selling it based on Ubuntu
[09:36] <czajkowski> wonder how legal that is.
[09:41] <slashbel> nothing illegal about selling open source software
[09:41] <czajkowski> no there isnt
[09:41] <slashbel> although IANAL but as long as the source is available…
[09:42] <ebel> nothing illegal about selling FLOSS.
[09:42] <ebel> RMS sold copies of emacs back in the day
[09:43] <czajkowski> I assumed/thought there would be some sort of agrreement with canonical and them  for distribution of their product even if it has been reskined
[09:44] <ebel> *however* if you sell floss software, then any of your customers are able to resell it and copy it as often as they like
[09:44] <ebel> so the economics of selling software change if it's open source software, so it's not as common a business approach
[09:45] <ebel> and yes, trademarked terms (like "ubuntu" or "ubuntu linux" or whatever etc.) can get tricky and differnet
[09:45] <czajkowski> yup
[09:45] <ebel> this is why the free version of red hat is called CentOS, and there's iceweasel/firefox etc.
[09:45] <czajkowski> and they are literally just adding a skin to the Ubuntu desktop
[09:46] <slashbel> aye, the only restrictions Ubuntu™ are related to use of their trademark
[09:46] <slashbel> can enforce are related*
[09:46] <czajkowski> ack
[09:46] <slashbel> it's great, it's the only way the community can exist!
[09:47] <ebel> *do* canonical have a trademark on "ubuntu"? I remember seeing "ubuntu cola" and few other bits and bobs... I wonder if it's too generic...
[09:47] <slashbel> we have already seen what happens with proprietory unixes
[09:47] <czajkowski> ubuntu is just a word also so no
[09:47] <ebel> the OSI tried (and failed) to get a trademark on "open source".
[09:47] <czajkowski> but if it was a domain or a logo
[09:47] <czajkowski> they do keep an eye o it
[09:47] <czajkowski> so there is a site ubuntu.ie
[09:47] <czajkowski> they got it first
[09:48] <slashbel> ebel: Apple™ and Apple Records™ situation?
[09:48] <ebel> and trademark depends on context & industry.
[09:49] <slashbel> and if you do not enforce your trademark, you lose it!
[09:49] <czajkowski> indeed
[09:49] <ebel> so you can ford a river (as people have been saying for a thousand years) but you cannot call your new sort of car a Ford.
[09:49] <czajkowski> Apple take it to the extreme - aka apples in poland
[09:49] <czajkowski> and then they also lose like yesterday :D
[09:50] <ebel> the other problem with selling FLOSS is you (obviously) cannot put any extra restrictions on it. e.g. any EULA
[09:50] <czajkowski> indeed
[09:50] <ebel> this is why you can't get any GPL software on the Apple App Store. VLC was pulled for this reason. Apple don't want it.
[09:50] <czajkowski> my worry is then when stuff *breaks* and doesnt work where do they get support
[09:50] <czajkowski> if they dont they then have a bad user experience
[09:51] <ebel> So if you are green & new, one might put an EULA on one's downloaded software, since one might assume all software has it.
[09:51] <ebel> but if you try to put EULAs type things on it, you're commiting copyright infrigement etc.
[09:51] <ebel> tis tricky this copyright & trademark law!
[09:52] <czajkowski> indeed
[09:52] <czajkowski> my sister is going into that area of specalising
[09:53] <ebel> and of course accepting money for a thing, and if you cannot deliver that thing, then things get complicated...
[12:10] <airurando> afternoon
[12:10] <airurando> tried to upgrade from 12.04 to 12.10
[12:10] <zmoylan> tried is the worrying part
[12:10] <airurando> all appeared OK but the display res is very low
[12:10] <airurando> can't see dash or top menu
[12:11] <airurando> can get to settings through right click
[12:11] <popey> o/
[12:12] <airurando> but under display the only resolution options I get are 600 x 800 and afternoon popey
[12:12] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[12:12] <czajkowski> airurando: had some updates
[12:12] <czajkowski> and not sure what happened
[12:12] <czajkowski> 13:10 < airurando> all appeared OK but the display res is very low
[12:12] <czajkowski> 13:10 < airurando> can't see dash or top menu
[12:12] <czajkowski> 13:11 < airurando> can get to settings through right click
[12:12] <airurando> yeah I appear to be on 12.10
[12:13] <popey> what kind of machine is is it?
[12:13] <airurando> this is on my laptop
[12:13] <popey> laptop/desktop model?
[12:13] <airurando> dell studio 1555
[12:13] <zmoylan> sounds like its missing drivers
[12:13] <airurando> login screen seems perfect
[12:13] <airurando> problem arised after login
[12:14] <popey> are you on the machine now?
[12:15] <airurando> working off a different machine at the moment
[12:15] <airurando> but I have the laptop up and running
[12:15] <airurando> cant bring up anything except settings and new doc
[12:16] <popey> is it on the network?
[12:16] <airurando> under the Displays settings the top res it will allow is 10.24 x 768
[12:17] <airurando> yie it is on the network
[12:19] <popey> switch to tty with CTRL+ALT+F1
[12:19] <popey> and then login
[12:19] <popey> and then sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[12:19] <popey> and then pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[12:19] <popey> (case sensitive)
[12:19] <popey> and give us the link
[12:22] <airurando> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1289146/
[12:29] <airurando> Think I will try this http://askubuntu.com/questions/78906/ati-amd-proprietary-fglrx-graphics-install-fails-how-can-i-resolve-the-problem
[12:29] <airurando> and reboot
[12:45] <airurando> situation appears to be the same
[12:46] <popey> :(
[12:46] <popey> sorry, I know nothing about ATI
[12:47] <airurando> no prob popey
[12:47] <airurando> thanks for trying
[12:47] <airurando> I reckon I'll go with a fresh install.
[12:48]  * airurando fleas to collect the kids and get some blank DVDs
[14:07] <airurando> ebel: I'll take some /all of the 12.04 CDs from you if you bring then to TOG tomorrow.  Celar out the flat in prep for the 12.10 DVDs.
[14:07] <airurando> *Clear
[14:08] <ebel> hehe
[14:08] <ebel> sure, I'll be in TOG tomorrow, I can bring the CDs
[14:09] <airurando> cool
[14:10] <airurando> see you at about 7pm
[14:10] <airurando> now back to the laptop.
[14:10] <airurando> I've reinstalled 12.04
[14:10] <airurando> going to try the upgrade again on a vanilla machine
[14:38] <ebel> ok
[15:15] <tdr112> best of look
[15:15] <tdr112> luck should i say
[16:18] <airurando1> vanilla install of ubuntu 12.04 fully updated.
[16:18] <airurando1> attempted to upgrade to 12.10
[16:18] <airurando1> same graphics issue encountered again.
[16:18] <airurando1> reverting to fresh install of Ubuntu 12.10
[16:26] <tdr112> well thats crap
[19:50] <czajkowski> tdr112: whats up
[19:54] <zmoylan> think he was commenting on airurando having trouble with graphics after updating.
[19:55] <czajkowski> ah
[20:16] <tdr112> i was