[04:28] <emdub> anyone awake familiar with the upgrade process with a local mirror?  i'm able to do an upgrade successfully, but have always wondered what the "no valid mirror" thing is about when running do-release-upgrade, if there is something in my apt-mirror i am not mirroring properly or something?
[04:30] <emdub> this is what i see: http://pastie.org/private/wwzjnnc41hodygwqh1tgqq
[04:31] <emdub> again, everything seems to work, just wondering if there is a way to clean up those errors
[10:33] <xnox> does ubi-prepare.py plugin actually uses ubuntu-drivers to activate wifi drivers/firmware during non-oem install & hence improve chances of activating wifi in ubi-wireless step?
[11:14] <xnox> mpt: looking at the new connect to the internet step https://docs.google.com/a/surgut.co.uk/document/preview?id=1bZ4yQIVgGaUGSYu3qiUHnQt3ieBZoqunP_DcleHCr3I#heading=h.1if37baf38j0
[11:15] <xnox> there is something that doesn't quite fit.
[11:15] <xnox> "Install Driver Now" - actually means that the driver is third-party & proprietary (otherwise it would be included in our kernel by default)
[11:16] <xnox> but there are no legal warning about that & by default we should not encourage third-party software (Ubuntu Technical Board resolution)
[11:17] <xnox> Also I've checked other bugs and people complain about keyboard layouts not setup for wifi passwords...
[11:18] <xnox> maybe moving the keyboard early would be also appropriate to fix: wifi & crypto passwords?!
[11:27] <stgraber> you could even argue that the keyboard dialog should be shown first as we have a text field on ubi-language (OEM tag) that may need the proper layout to be configured
[11:27] <stgraber> though I'd tend to prefer having the oem field moved to ubi-usersetup or similar as it always looked a bit weird on ubi-language and having the keyboard layout dialog first would be really weird
[11:27] <cjwatson> But the keyboard dialog's defaults depend on language (and timezone)
[11:28] <cjwatson> Moving the oem field would make a degree of sense, yes
[11:28] <cjwatson> The wifi vs. keyboard thing is unresolvable by reordering; that's why we have the keyboard indicator
[11:29] <stgraber> except that the indicator can only show you the 4 most likely layout based on language (because of a stupid X limitation) so in a lot of cases it's not terribly useful...
[11:29] <cjwatson> Well, yeah, but I mean the general idea
[11:31] <stgraber> but yeah, no amount of reordering will fix the problem for good as we have input fields everywhere... one option would be to always show an icon that lets you jump to the keyboard page and then back to where you were but I'm not sure it's worth the effort at this point
[11:32] <stgraber> especially as gfxboot lets you override the layout anyway
[11:33] <cjwatson> Although we try not to show you the gfxboot menu by default
[11:33] <cjwatson> It all sucks
[11:33] <cjwatson> One way or another
[11:34] <xnox> *sigh*
[11:35] <xnox> and the broadcom&etc wifi drivers?
[11:36] <xnox> currently we offer to install updates (grayed out if no network) and the bundle of (drivers + restricted-addons), then open/show wifi settings...
[11:37] <xnox> moving wifi settings before the prepare step, may require taking wifi drivers with us, but then the drivers will be split into two: wifi & graphics....
[11:40] <cjwatson> xnox: The TB decision you refer to was specifically about non-driver software
[11:41] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-March/000834.html
[11:42] <xnox> cjwatson: so it should be ok to run ubuntu-drivers autoinstall by default, unless we are booted in the free software only mode?
[11:43] <xnox> reading the "Software installed by default" http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/licensing seems appropriate.
[11:43] <xnox> plus ubuntu-drivers will only install necessary stuff.
[11:45] <cjwatson> xnox: You should talk about that with the kernel team; I expect there are cases where automatically installing proprietary drivers is harmful, not least to our ability to diagnose kernel bugs
[11:45] <cjwatson> Legal reasons aren't the only ones why those drivers are opt-in
[11:47] <xnox> cjwatson: right. Currently we have checkbox which bundles: restricted-addons and all ubuntu-drivers.
[11:47] <xnox> there is a suggestion to move the wifi step before prepare, but that may need wifi drivers.
[11:47] <xnox> but not the rest.
[11:48] <cjwatson> Which is the result of a series of careful compromises, so talk about it fairly widely before changing it, would be my recommendation ...
[11:48] <cjwatson> But I should get back to working out how to get CI working :)
[11:48] <xnox> and generally if you need a wifi driver, there is no options.... you won't have the internetz....
[11:49] <xnox> cjwatson: ok. I will publicize it.
[11:50] <cjwatson> Broadcom drivers are tricky
[11:50] <cjwatson> My wife's laptop used to crash if you used the one that jockey offered
[11:50] <cjwatson> But it was fine if you shovelled in the firmware necessary to make b43 work
[11:50] <cjwatson> (I think it was that way round)
[11:50] <cjwatson> It was better to not have network during installation than to have it crash solid
[11:52] <xnox> so how about switch wifi step before prepare, such all people with normal wifi's can install updates while installing. And those with crippled wifi cards will be left without network. Which is an improvement for the general & free case, over let's cripple everyone because of some cripped wifis.
[11:53] <xnox> ...or we can show network page twice.
[11:53] <cjwatson> Don't we show a network-manager indicator or something?
[11:54] <xnox> yeah we do.... no usability studies to see if it's discoverable by new users though.
[11:54] <xnox> we could attempt to show wireless page twice.
[11:54] <xnox> If there is wifi card - show before prepare step.
[11:55] <xnox> If no wifi card go to prepare & show it after prepare page instead.....
[11:55] <xnox> but that won't give you the "install updates checkbox" =(
[11:55] <xnox> with proprietary card.
[18:38]  * xnox ponders about 512MB servers and zram-config
[18:39]  * infinity is reminded that he needs to move zram-config into initramfs-tools.
[18:43] <xnox> ogra_: ^^^
[18:43] <ogra_> infinity, ++