[04:38] <soreau> !isitout
[05:42] <Azelphur> ali1234: I did lots of digging in BS&T, based on the evidence I have, it all points towards BS&T being a frontend to zeekrewards
[05:42] <Azelphur> in summary, you was probably right xD
[05:43] <Azelphur> sadface.jpg, *waves goodbye to 100 btc*
[05:45] <MartijnVdS> \o Azelphur
[05:47] <Azelphur> indeed
[05:48] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ @ Google for releasing Chromebooks only in UK/US
[05:48] <Azelphur> you could just buy one with bitcoins like ali said earlier
[05:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yeah, but I don't have any
[05:48] <Azelphur> that's what I do when I need out of country kit
[05:49] <MartijnVdS> also, PC-World doesn't accept BC ;)
[05:49] <Azelphur> you could buy some bitcoins off of me to give back to me to buy yourself a chromebook?
[05:49] <Azelphur> xD
[05:49] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you mean I send you some money? ;)
[05:49] <Azelphur> indeed
[07:13] <diplo> Morning all
[07:13] <MartijnVdS> \o diplo
[07:14]  * diplo needs sleep
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> Sleep is for the weak
[07:15] <MartijnVdS> diplo: had a good release party then? :)
[07:16] <diplo> Not me, just a s*** nights sleep I guess
[07:20] <popey> Morning!
[07:20] <MartijnVdS> \o popeyman
[07:24] <knightwise> yoyo è
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: gangnam style?
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> oppan knightwise style!
[07:26]  * knightwise does the funny horse dance ! 
[07:27]  * knightwise swings ubuntu 12.10 usb installers around ! 
[07:32] <hoover> Morning all
[07:37] <knightwise> hey hoover
[07:45] <popey> \o/ Nexus 7
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: got yours already?
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> you have a fast postman
[07:46] <popey> yeah
[07:46] <popey> paid 1 pound extra for "before 1pm" delivery
[07:46] <knightwise> popey: you are going to enjoy it !
[07:46] <popey> i already am :)
[07:46] <knightwise> I have my with me EVERYWHERE
[07:46] <popey> it's way better than any other android device I've used
[07:47] <popey> might have to get a cover from somewhere
[07:47]  * knightwise needs to recharge his ipad that has been dead for 2 weeks now
[07:47] <knightwise> popey: take a peek on eboay
[07:47] <knightwise> ebay
[07:47]  * popey now has way too many tablets
[07:47] <knightwise> plenty of cheap versatile covers there
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: give some to your kids :)
[07:47] <knightwise> popey: how many tablets do you have ?
[07:47] <popey> 5
[07:48] <popey> 2xnexus 7, ipad, smarttq t20, transformer
[07:48] <popey> so I have way more android devices than apple ones :)
[07:48]  * knightwise agrees Too many tablets
[07:48] <knightwise> Do you use the transformer keyboard/touchpad a lot ?
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: that's one for everyone + 1 spare? :)
[07:48] <popey> or all for me and none for anyone else
[07:49] <popey> I will leave ipad at home I think for this trip
[07:49] <popey> so wife/kids can play with it
[07:54] <bootljhfdsds> Is the new Chromebook considered an ultrabook ?
[08:00] <czajkowski> morning folks
[08:00] <czajkowski> popey: why 2 nexus 7's
[08:13]  * SuperMatt looks bleary-eyed at the channel
[08:13] <SuperMatt> MOAR BACON
[08:14] <mattt> MOAR MOAR MOAR
[08:14]  * mattt had bacon today
[08:15] <popey> czajkowski, see marks blog post :)
[08:15] <czajkowski> ack
[08:15] <czajkowski> see Jans rant on G+
[08:15] <SuperMatt> my bacon desperation stems from last night's wonderous ubuntu release party
[08:16] <SuperMatt> czajkowski: link?
[08:16] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112648813199640203443/posts/6fJGtTcLz8K
[08:18] <popey> thats not the blog post I meant
[08:18] <popey> "So bring along a Nexus 7 if you’re coming to Copenhagen, because it makes a rumpty reference for our rootin’ tootin’ radionic razoring."
[08:18] <czajkowski> ahh
[08:18] <czajkowski> yes
[08:19] <SuperMatt> yeah, I thought mark's post was more about getting more people involved, and creating new, exciting things that from time to time they want to announce with a bang, rather than have it slide in slowly
[08:21] <gord> when phone opporaters release new updates to their phone they should tell me secretly like 5 days before hand so i have chance to download it before the internet tries and kills the update servers
[08:22]  * czajkowski tickles gord 
[08:29] <SuperMatt> ah yes, /. and it's tirade of "I don't want this, why is it in my OS?"
[08:29] <SuperMatt> to which the answer is "because other people *do* want it and they're very appreciative of it, thank you very much"
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> gord: my Galaxy Nexus just pinged yesterday "New update, install?"
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> it had pre-downloaded it for me
[08:33] <mattt> people take things far too seriously
[08:33] <mattt> can't we all just a bo...
[08:33] <mattt> *get
[08:42] <knightwise> mattt:  you wanted to say "book" there .. didn't you :)
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> "bore each other"
[08:46] <bigcalm> Good(?) morning peeps :)
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
[08:47] <bigcalm> My workstation was jealous of me upgrading(?) my laptop last night - my central monitor is no longer rotated 90deg. Nothings changed in xorg.conf. So what's made it change?
[08:47] <bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS
[08:47] <shauno> hm, that's new.  I now have a /boot/grub/i386-pc and a /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc with identical contents, but not linked
[08:48] <shauno> wonder which one I can nuke
[08:48] <gord> bigcalm, not considered the idea that the rest of the universe has rotated 90degr?
[08:48] <bigcalm> gord: in that case, maybe the left and right monitors have actually rotated
[08:52] <mattt> knightwise: i don't even know where that came from, i think it was a friend's IRC quit message :)
[08:52] <knightwise> anyone setup 12.10 with a dual monitor setup (side by side, non rotational)
[08:52] <mattt> or maybe it was some default bitchx-type thing
[08:53]  * knightwise remembers bitxhX fondly
[08:53] <knightwise> i'm now more of an irssi whore
[08:53] <diplo> knightwise: yeah I do
[08:53] <diplo> Works soooooooooooo much better in 12.10, just works
[08:53] <SuperMatt> knightwise: I have dual monitor....
[08:54] <knightwise> ah Good
[08:54] <SuperMatt> were you worried it might not work?
[08:54] <knightwise> planning to hook up my i5 machine to the dual monitor setup at home
[08:54] <knightwise> 2*24 inch dells
[08:55] <bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/259215368114032641
[08:55] <Laney> wait what
[08:55] <Laney> pretty popular post there popey
[08:56] <popey> yeah :S
[08:56] <Laney> "460 comments, that's weird"
[08:56] <Laney> then I saw the +1s
[08:56] <JamesTait> Happy Day-after-release Day, everyone! :-D
[08:56] <gord> yaaay my phone has jelly babies
[08:56] <popey> yeah, kinda surprised
[08:56] <popey> ripples are fun
[08:56] <knightwise> popey : had a chance to listen to the interview yet ?
[08:57] <knightwise> getting good feedback from the episode so far
[08:57] <popey> knightwise, some of it, not all yet
[08:57] <popey> oh cool!
[08:57] <popey> \o/
[08:58] <knightwise> bigcalm: did you manage to find an OLDER keyboard or do all the older models feature cavepaintings on the keys
[08:58] <bigcalm> :D
[08:58] <bigcalm> knightwise: I paid good money for this noisy beauty
[08:59] <mattt> das keyboard ?
[08:59] <bigcalm> Unicomp (Model M)
[08:59] <knightwise> popey : considering the number of tablets you have .. this is for the Misses : http://knightwise.com/sarah-louise-young-is-an-ipad-widow/
[08:59] <knightwise> bigcalm: old ibm bank-style rattle rattle board ?
[08:59] <knightwise> so people 2 offices away know when you are typing ?
[09:00] <bigcalm> knightwise: if you want to call it that :) I like the feedback. I work at home, so it's not a problem until Hayley comes home :)
[09:00] <diplo> Can't stand noisey keyboards
[09:01] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:01] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:01] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[09:01] <bigcalm> They also do a 'silent' version of the same keyboard. Maybe I should have bought one of those
[09:01] <brobostigon> hey knightwise
[09:03] <BigRedS> I work with someone whose keyboard is frequently louder than he is on the phone...
[09:03] <knightwise> bigcalm: do you have those three screens hooked up to one single system (triple screen setup ?)
[09:03] <bigcalm> Does X get settings from somewhere other than /etc/X/xorg.cof ?
[09:03] <bigcalm> knightwise: I do. 2 graphics cards
[09:04] <knightwise> bigcalm: One Pci Express + one pci ?
[09:04] <bigcalm> knightwise: again correct
[09:04] <bigcalm> knightwise: took a lot of searching to find an PCI nvidia card with the same model number as the PCI-e one
[09:05] <knightwise> bigcalm: interesting :) might rummage around my dad in laws office to find one of those (i have a spare third monitor)
[09:05] <knightwise> bigcalm: but thats a fairly "recent" card then
[09:05] <bigcalm> root@snafu:/etc/X11# lspci | grep NVIDIA
[09:05] <bigcalm> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G84 [GeForce 8600 GT] (rev a1)
[09:05] <bigcalm> 05:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS] (rev a2)
[09:05] <gord> not really ;)
[09:06] <CaMason> archive.ubuntu.com not working for me if anyone wants to know about it
[09:06] <BigRedS> bigcalm: which settings? It does have a per-user rc file which I've not had to remember the existence of since about 2002
[09:06] <popey> CaMason, its a busy day :)
[09:06] <CaMason> oh it's out?
[09:06] <popey> CaMason, try again, there's a lot of machines behind that hostname
[09:06] <CaMason> forgot about that
[09:07] <bigcalm> BigRedS: the central monitor is incorrect even during lightdm session selection. So I don't think this is a per user thing :|
[09:10] <BigRedS> ahh, right
[09:11] <bigcalm> Is it possible that an updated nvidia driver no longer rotates?
[09:13] <BigRedS> It's crertainly possible that it's simply broken
[09:13] <bigcalm> Is it possible to downgrade it?
[09:16] <BigRedS> apt-cache showpkg <package name> | less    will show you the available versions in the repos
[09:16] <bigcalm> Ta
[09:19] <knightwise> You know what torvalds said to Nvidia
[09:19]  * BigRedS is pretty pleased has has no real need for posh graphics
[09:20] <popey> bigcalm, apt-cache policy nvidia-settings
[09:20] <popey> pastebin that pls
[09:21] <bigcalm> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1288860/
[09:21] <popey> ok
[09:21] <popey> do same with apt-cache policy nvidia-current*
[09:22] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1288861/
[09:22] <popey> ok, so you have 304.43
[09:24] <popey> bigcalm, what does "xrandr" output say?
[09:24] <bigcalm> In Additional Drivers, 304 seems to be mentioned as an experimental beta release.
[09:25] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1288866/
[09:25] <andylockran> bigcalm: ah, I used them to try and get vdpau working on my ion last night; it wasn't playing ball
[09:25] <popey> 1680x1050 is that the one you want to rotate?
[09:26] <bigcalm> popey: all 3 monitors are the same res
[09:26] <bigcalm> Of 1680x1050
[09:26] <popey> so which one is that?
[09:26] <popey> its only showing one
[09:26] <bigcalm> Yeah, odd
[09:27] <popey> are they all on, and displaying stuff? just you want one to rotate?
[09:27] <bigcalm> popey: that's correct
[09:27] <popey> can you pastebin your xorg.conf?
[09:29] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1288873/
[09:31] <popey> bigcalm, and your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
[09:31] <bigcalm> Found some info that seems to state that Roate Left doesn't work in 304.43: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=148178
[09:31] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1288880/
[09:32] <popey> [     6.616] (WW) NVIDIA(1): Option "Rotate" is not used
[09:32] <bigcalm> Yeah, just saw that as well
[09:32] <popey> "Removed the "Rotate" X configuration option. This was used to statically rotate the X screen. Its functionality is replaced by the "Rotation" MetaMode attribute and RandR 1.2 rotation support. See the README for details.
[09:32] <popey> "
[09:33] <popey> so its a metamode now
[09:33] <popey> just need to tweak your xorg.conf, not roll back
[09:33] <bigcalm> Good :)
[09:34] <popey> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/302.07/README/xrandrextension.html
[09:34] <popey> you can test with xrandr
[09:34] <popey> xrandr --output DVI-I-2 --rotate left
[09:34] <popey> does that work?
[09:35] <bigcalm> Yes, but it was the wrong screen :D
[09:35] <popey> yay
[09:35] <bigcalm> Turning my head sideways to read this
[09:35] <popey> :)
[09:36] <popey> or (:
[09:36] <bigcalm> I've tweaked my xorg.conf, lets see if it works
[09:36] <bigcalm> :) looks sensible from this angle
[09:37] <bigcalm> Yay!
[09:38] <bigcalm> Thank you :)
[09:38] <popey> np
[09:38] <bigcalm> Aww, side-ways smilies again
[09:38] <bigcalm> Now I can get one with work again :(
[09:39] <bigcalm> I upgraded my laptop to 12.10 last night. The fan runs at 100% all the time and the screen res is wrong. It looks as though it's no longer using the ATI driver despite is being installed
[09:43] <czajkowski> I'm having deja vu
[09:44] <czajkowski> bigcalm: you asked in xubuntu :)
[09:44] <czajkowski> or in the kernel channel re fans at 100% cPU
[09:44] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I did and didn't get a response
[09:44] <popey> 819788
[09:44] <czajkowski> bigcalm: was late :)
[09:44] <popey> oops
[09:44] <czajkowski> no definately not an oops ID
[09:44] <czajkowski> I know them
[09:45] <czajkowski> they give me grief ;)
[09:45] <popey> 2fa :)
[09:45] <czajkowski> that just drives me batty
[09:46] <andyc> Quick Q: Is there any sensible way to mount /home over NFS?  I currently use autofs, but occasionally have problems where home doesn't mount and I have to touch the directory before it will mount and let me log in.
[10:09] <davmor2> Morning all happy hangover day
[10:16] <gord> hey davmor2 you have an SIII right?
[10:16] <davmor2> gord I do
[10:16] <gord> i got jellybean this morning
[10:17] <bigcalm> Ooo
[10:17] <davmor2> gord: you on 3?
[10:17] <gord> yup
[10:17] <bigcalm> gord: OTA or via Kies?
[10:17] <gord> via kies because the ota servers were deader than a really dead thing
[10:17] <davmor2> yeap 3 are the first to roll out in the UK the others will get it shortly
[10:17] <bigcalm> I've seen Kies work with my phone just once
[10:18] <gord> sortly between now and some random time in the future?
[10:18] <gord> shortly is rarely a thing with android updates ;)
[10:18] <davmor2> gord: you got kies installed is there a linux option for that or did you use games os :)
[10:18] <gord> windows 7
[10:39] <DvD> Hello!
[10:39] <AlanBell> hello
[10:40] <Guest99006> I gotta li'l problem, with Dvd +R recognization!
[10:40] <AlanBell> hmm, ok, normally DVDs just work like CDs but bigger
[10:41] <bigcalm> czajkowski: laptop display is fixed. Wasn't xubuntu related though. the ATI binary driver isn't compatible with 12.10 on my laptop
[10:41] <Guest99006> Ya, i duped a DVD, avi file working, i burnt it, but Ubuntu does not recognize it.
[10:41] <Guest99006> 'The dvd
[10:42] <bigcalm> Did you finalise the session?
[10:42] <Guest99006> Wa?
[10:42] <Guest99006> Yes, it did it automaticlly.
[10:42] <bigcalm> Does it work on any other machine?
[10:43] <Guest99006> On Windows, it shows up as empty
[10:43] <Guest99006> On other pc
[10:45] <Guest99006> got any idea?
[10:45] <Guest99006> tried with other dvd+r, the same model, it worked
[10:48] <Guest990066> I use XfBurn
[11:00] <popey> the downside of having 5 tablets is they all light up and go plinkety plonk when someone comments or shares something
[11:01] <bigcalm> :D
[11:01] <davmor2> popey: Muhahahahhhahahah
[11:01] <popey> not irc :)
[11:02] <Laney> FIVE TABLETS?
[11:02] <Laney> any of them running ubuntu?
[11:02] <davmor2> I know but there is twitter, FB and g+ :)
[11:04] <knightwise> at home we call it " The wave of ping "
[11:05] <hoover> lol
[11:14] <knightwise> Ha ! :) Nice 007 Skyfall add ni the antwerp trainstation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDiZOnzajNU
[11:27]  * AlanBell wonders about lunch
[11:27]  * knightwise things NimChimpsky has a realy dodgy connection
[11:34] <christel> mmmlunch.
[11:34] <knightwise> hey christel
[11:34] <christel> heya knightwise :)
[11:34] <knightwise> did the valium trick work on the little one ?
[11:34] <knightwise> or did childcare make a fuss ? :)
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> Rubber mallet > valium
[11:35] <knightwise> Ducktape :) ..; turns Whaaahhwhaaawhaaaa into MMM mmmmMMMMm
[11:36] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: Marc D.?
[11:36] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: hahaha ! well played
[11:37] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: it's what Belgium is known for abroad, you know 8-)
[11:38] <knightwise> Sadly yes :( ... we seem to have more killers, child molesters and priests than any other country in europe
[11:44] <hoover> I thought that was chips drowing in mayonnaise?
[11:44] <christel> knightwise: hahaha -- the GP sent us off to the children's ward where they gave him adrenaline + steroids, he's much better now though :)
[11:44] <knightwise> and beer hover !
[11:44] <hoover> drowning even (btw, I love mayonnaise ;-)
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> christel: he could be a pro cyclist then!
[11:44] <knightwise> christel: so they turned the kid into captain america ?
[11:44] <christel> hahaha
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: they' not America though
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> re
[11:48]  * MartijnVdS hates his kb
[11:49] <knightwise> thats ok :) I hated captain america .. what a terrible flick
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: what would be the British equivalent of Captain America?
[11:49] <bootljhfdsds> Mr  Bean..
[11:49] <knightwise> hmm... lets see ..
[11:49] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds++
[11:50] <knightwise> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu9hmYs1amY
[11:50] <knightwise> My Hero ! (Bbc sitcom)
[11:50] <knightwise> = british captain america
[11:51] <bootljhfdsds> there was a "Green Man"  .. but he ended up being Lord Vader... fitting.
[11:51] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: that sounds like a "Cards Against Humanity" answer :)
[11:52] <bootljhfdsds> Cards Against Humanity ?? scanning 4 Cards Against Humanity  ...
[11:53] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: http://cardsagainsthumanity.com/ http://cardsagainsthumanity.com/lab/ (not suitable for sensitive people and their children)
[11:54] <bootljhfdsds> The Onion AV Club interview calls the game "a sort of Apples To Apples for the crass and jaded." wikipedia .. mmm .. good for the boat I guess.
[11:55] <bootljhfdsds> crass = gross these days  So I think I'll give it a miss . thanx thou.
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: you can try it on the "lab" page
[11:56] <bootljhfdsds> Can you find that 4 me, plz.
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: http://cardsagainsthumanity.com/lab/ ?
[11:59] <knightwise> what the crud is THAT :)
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: card game :)
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: works best with groups of friends
[12:04] <knightwise> you assume I have friends
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: acquaintances?
[12:06]  * knightwise has Devoted fans groupies and willing virgings 
[12:08] <bootljhfdsds> Well, I'm up to round 105 and it just keeps going .. so I dont know if there is any result atall.   ..It is gross after-all.
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: the /lab/ page is just their way of measuring funny combinations
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: you can buy it as a pack of cards to play with friends over a beer or somethging
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: one person plays a black card, the others play white cards, person who played the black card determines which white card is the funniest, person who played it wins the round
[12:09] <bootljhfdsds> ... pretty basic option .. I think if was done in a language ur trying to learn or something .. then I'd give it a go.
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> bootljhfdsds: they have German and French sets I think
[12:10] <knightwise> bootljhfdsds is a nickname  ?  I thought MartijnVdS was just hammering on his keyboard
[12:11] <bootljhfdsds> i wear different clothes for different friends . END
[12:27] <hoover> cheers all, have a nice weekend
[13:26] <Myrtti> I wonder what bit I'm missing when all my messaging menu contains is empathy stuff
[13:26] <czajkowski> Myrtti: aye mine just contains that plus G+
[13:27] <Myrtti> I just installed the gmail webapp and it's not shwing
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> I removed all the messaging menu bits
[13:31] <Myrtti> I just want my email thing
[13:33] <SuperMatt> interesting, my torrent of 12.10-server-amd64 was the quickest to download, but 12.10-desktop-amd63 is the first to reach a ratio of 1.0
[13:35] <BigRedS> amd63 isn't a very popular architecture
[13:36] <SuperMatt> I know
[13:36] <SuperMatt> who would have thought it'd be the first to reach a ration of 1?
[13:36] <gord> amd62 was my favourite, after then its been downhill
[13:38] <Myrtti> right so apparently there is something crashing
[13:38] <Myrtti> and apport just vanished somewhere when I was trying to send the report
[13:40] <SuperMatt> nice
[13:44] <Myrtti> and now on this reboot it didn't crash.
[13:44] <Myrtti> nice.
[13:55] <Wobbo> How can I vind out if a computer (Ubuntu 8.04 and a 10.10) using hardware ethernet 1000bit
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: GUI, or command-line?
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: in the GUI, right-click the network icon (arrow up + arrow down) -> "Connection info" (Verbindingsinformatie)
[13:56] <MartijnVdS> Wobbo: command-line: ethtool eth0
[13:56] <Myrtti> it was libindicator something :-(
[13:57] <Myrtti> myyh.
[13:58] <AlanBell> !info pymssql
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> python-pymssql - Python database access for MS SQL server and Sybase
[13:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ^
[13:58] <AlanBell> !info python-pymssql
[13:59] <AlanBell> !info python-pymssql unstable
[13:59] <AlanBell> grr
[13:59] <AlanBell> Bug #918896 sits unloved
[13:59] <popey> http://victorpalau.net/2012/10/19/nexus-7-raring-to-go-to-copenhaguen/
[13:59] <popey> \o/
[14:00] <brobostigon> :)
[14:02] <AlanBell> so there we have a package in Ubuntu that is completely and utterly broken
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it is?
[14:02] <AlanBell> upstream has a new version
[14:02] <AlanBell> debian doesn't have the new version
[14:02] <AlanBell> so we just stay broken
[14:03] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, it is a doorstop
[14:03] <bashrc> Have been noticing very slow behavior on 12.10.  Workspace transitions are comically jerky
[14:04] <bashrc> is there a way of installing proprietary ATI drivers?
[14:05] <bashrc> proprietary graphics driver installation used to "just work", at least on this laptop
[14:05] <AlanBell> should still work the same way
[14:06] <SuperMatt> AlanBell: do you suppose there'll ever be a reason to move away from debian? Cutting out the middle man might help canonical
[14:06] <bashrc> I don't notice any hardware icon, and searching for hardware comes up with nothing
[14:07] <AlanBell> SuperMatt: there was some talk of cutting out Debian for the Gnome core packages (i.e. get them from Gnome instead)
[14:08] <AlanBell> debian bug 648230
[14:08] <AlanBell> so that debian bug has been sat there for nearly a year
[14:09] <SuperMatt> crikey
[14:09] <AlanBell> not unusual really
[14:09] <AlanBell> there are whole swathes of stuff that nobody cares about
[14:10] <SuperMatt> of course, surely there's nothing wrong with canonical packaging up the patch and then sending it upstream, right?
[14:10] <AlanBell> well canonical doesn't care about it
[14:10] <bashrc> If nobody cares then patches don't get made or applied
[14:10] <AlanBell> this situation is where the distribution concept falls down
[14:11] <AlanBell> nobody cares who can do anything about it
[14:11] <bashrc> is there a patch?
[14:11] <AlanBell> there is a new upstream version that works
[14:11] <bashrc> but it's not coming downstream?
[14:11] <AlanBell> nope
[14:11] <SuperMatt> blocked by apathy
[14:12] <bashrc> heh
[14:12] <AlanBell> so we have a broken old version in the repositories, the new version is out there, it would be better if we didn't have that package at all
[14:12] <AlanBell> and people could install it via pip or whatever and it would work
[14:12] <bashrc> if it's important - like a security fix - then someone needs to spring into action
[14:12] <AlanBell> it is a python driver for MS SQL
[14:13] <bashrc> ah, MS
[14:13] <AlanBell> so you can write stuff to read MSSQL databases and squirt the data into postgres or other real database
[14:13] <bashrc> sounds useful probably only in a business context
[14:13] <AlanBell> yeah :(
[14:14] <AlanBell> the "only in a business" context doesn't get much love
[14:14] <bashrc> Here at home I don't have any microsoft servers
[14:15] <AlanBell> neither do I, but one of my clients was migrating some legacy data from an old MS SQL thing over to OpenERP so I was writing scripts to do that early this year and discovered the problem
[14:15] <bashrc> I see
[14:16] <daubers> AlanBell: I'd have thrown it together in C# tbh
[14:16] <bashrc> which reminds me to update my speechbot
[14:17] <AlanBell> daubers: well I threw it together in python because that is what openERP is written in, there are any number of languages that could have been used
[14:18] <AlanBell> c# probably needs some kind of ODBC driver or something too
[14:18] <bashrc> Probably I need the proprietary ATI drivers.  If I play a YouTube video, and then try to do anything else it's like the sky has fallen in.  It didn't used to be this bad.
[14:18] <AlanBell> bashrc: you might be using llvmpipe which is software rendering
[14:19] <bashrc> possibly
[14:19] <daubers> AlanBell: True, :) I just assume it has better MSSQL support
[14:20] <bashrc> one improvement in 12.10...an Emacs 24 package
[14:20]  * daubers downgrades immediatley 
[14:20] <daubers> :p
[14:34] <bashrc> http://soundcloud.com/ubuntu-audiocast/ubuntu-audiocast-episode-02
[14:51] <popey> i had to stop listening about half way through, it got annoying
[14:54] <bashrc> it's quite funny
[14:55] <bashrc> like 1950s hipsters + ubuntu
[14:57] <einonm> popey: Well, at least it doesn't have ten gazillion radio jingles like linux outlaws...I've never got through an entire LO podcast as yet
[14:57] <popey> heh
[14:57] <popey> bashrc, it is funny in places, yes
[14:57] <popey> and I like the message, but the style of delivery isnt to my taste
[14:58] <popey> its good there's people making them, shame it's not a traditional downloadable show
[14:58] <bashrc> "not just software..."
[15:00] <einonm> that begs the question - which do you think is the best podcast?
[15:01] <einonm> or, guessing what the answer may be - the second best? :)
[15:01] <bashrc> the best ubuntu podcast?
[15:01] <einonm> linux / tech in general, I suppose
[15:01] <lazarus_> hi
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> I liked the Wing Commander's show
[15:01] <bashrc> tricky
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> too bad some people talked for an hour around it
[15:03] <bashrc> maybe LO, but LAS is also quite good
[15:03] <Myrtti> is that the episode with the misogynistic Gagnam style?
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> I listen to this sometimes: http://www.tested.com/podcasts/
[15:04] <bashrc> also like the command line podcast and GNU World Order
[15:06] <einonm> MartijnVdS: those guys look familiar from the telly. looks a bit Windows-y, but will check it out :)
[15:07] <bashrc> "It seemed as if there was no hope, no love, no freedom...just fruit"
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> einonm: Almost no Linux content (unless you count Android), but they do use Android, Windows and MacOs
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> einonm: they're not too biased
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> einonm: and sometimes they get Adam Savage (you know, the mythbuster) to explain cool stuff
[15:08] <einonm> MartijnVdS:  ok cool
[15:08] <einonm> bashrc: Never heard of either of those, but command line looks great (3D printing!)
[15:08] <MartijnVdS> einonm: they do that a lot too.. 3d printing :)
[15:09] <einonm> I'm moving house next month, going to get a garage...I've earmarked some time to try and put together a mendel
[15:10] <bashrc> http://thecommandline.net/
[15:10] <mattt> i tend to avoid any podcasts w/ the word "zany" in them
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> mattt: how.. specific
[15:11] <bashrc> http://gnuworldorder.info/  - Klaatu seems to be mostly a Slackware user
[15:12] <mattt> MartijnVdS: whut
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> mattt: How many podcasts have "zany" in them?
[15:15] <einonm> The Linux Format podcast is always pretty interesting too, has been my fave so far
[15:17] <bashrc> http://tuxradar.com/podcast
[15:18] <einonm> yep, that one
[15:19] <bashrc> "If you stay true to the roots of the project you're never using Ubuntu...You're making Ubuntu"
[15:23] <popey> i listen to pcpro and tuxradar mostly
[15:24] <popey> i listen to LO live (like tonight) mainly to correct them when they're wrong via irc
[15:26] <davmor2> popey: are you trying to make out that fabsh is wrong my gob has never been so smacked
[15:28] <bashrc> LO is probably the best in terms of general content and rants.  LAS is probably the best in terms of production (particularly the video version), but has irritating adverts.
[15:29] <AlanBell> think I might try listening to Linux Outlaws tonight
[15:29] <AlanBell> what is LAS?
[15:29] <bashrc> Linux Action Show
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> Some American accents I can cope with
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> the ones the LAS guys have.. not so much
[15:29] <bashrc> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/tag/linux-action-show/
[15:32] <einonm> just had another quick listen to an LO show - have they turned down the jingling, or am I confusing them with someone else?
[15:34] <lazarus_> how do i add video call support to empathy in 12.10
[15:38] <popey> i watch a bit now and then
[15:38] <popey> of LAS
[15:52] <Myrtti> funky, somehow I've managed to uninstall Spotify during the upgrade.
[15:53] <Myrtti> I wonder what the app I listen to music with right now is then
[15:53] <Myrtti> a ghost of an app past?
[15:54] <popey> spotify-client ?
[15:55] <popey> the package name changed iirc
[15:56] <Myrtti> apparently the qt one wasn't installed either
[15:56] <Myrtti> this is getting a bit confusing
[15:59] <ali1234> LO never had jingles did it?
[16:00] <bashrc> they have a theme tune
[16:01] <ali1234> last time i listened to it they hadn't even figured out stuff like "make everyone the same volume"
[16:03] <ali1234> speaking of broken proprietary app packages
[16:03] <ali1234> every time skype crashes i get a whoopsie wwindow, then an error "the app is part of a package that is not installed"
[16:03] <ali1234> it clearly is installed
[16:08] <Myrtti> so what kind of magic do people suggest that I'd get stuff in the messaging menu?
[16:08] <popey> ali1234, where did skype come from on your system?
[16:08] <ali1234> the partner repository
[16:08] <ali1234> but, i had to download it manually and install wth dpkg -i
[16:08] <ali1234> because it never showed up in the software center
[16:09] <ali1234> it shows in pidgin, because it is installed
[16:11] <lazarus_> ali1234: run sudo apt-get install -f to fix broken/misssing packages
[16:12] <ali1234> there are no broken/missing packages
[16:12] <ali1234> there is nothing wrong with my system
[16:12] <ali1234> apport/whoopsie is just broken
[16:12] <lazarus_> oh ok
[16:12] <lazarus_> i mis read
[16:35] <Laney> mrevell: too fast!
[16:35] <mrevell> :)
[16:39]  * Laney feels decadent having some AA batteries delivered by next day tracked mail
[16:39] <Laney> good old prime
[16:39] <Azelphur> ali1234 / popey figured you might be interested, I got some inside info on the whole BS&T debatacle :p
[16:39] <ali1234> "debatacle"
[16:39] <popey> haha
[16:39] <Azelphur> :P
[16:40] <popey> Laney, i ordered AA and AAA from prime, CR2032 and LR44 from fleabay :)
[16:40] <Azelphur> All the evidence lines up and seems to point to BS&T being a front for http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2012/08/17/sec-shuts-down-600-million-internet-ponzi-scheme/
[16:40] <Laney> \o/
[16:40] <ali1234> did anyone else listen to the US presidential debates?
[16:40] <Azelphur> I can confirm the SEC is also involved, and is actively trying to communicate with passthrough operators.
[16:40] <ali1234> Azelphur: zeek? that rumour has been going around for wweeks
[16:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: it all lines up, I'd say it's not a rumor so much as the most likely outcome
[16:41] <ali1234> most likely, pirate was just selling the BTC and putting it in zeek
[16:41] <Azelphur> yes, that is the most likely scenario :)
[16:46] <bashrc> rebuilding ATI drivers...
[16:48] <ali1234> Azelphur: that's likely why GLBSE is down too. weren't people operating passthroughs on there?
[16:49] <Azelphur> ali1234: GLBSE is down because Nefario decided to try and go legal with it, and that's very difficult atm, so he's taking the measures to ensure he doesn't go to jail. Nefario is pretty legit he's already refunded me and a bunch of other people
[16:49] <Azelphur> word is he's going to try and set up a new, fully regulated, bitcoin exchange sometime
[16:49] <ali1234> hah
[16:49] <bashrc> more bitcoin scandals?
[16:50] <Azelphur> bashrc: scandals, scandals everywhere.
[16:50] <ali1234> more like the SEC told him "we don't care about jurisdiction. shut this down and force everyonet o do AML so we can get the names of the pass hrough operators"
[16:50] <Azelphur> ali1234: he didn't force everyone to do AML
[16:50] <ali1234> "otherwise we extradite you and put you in jail for 3 years before you even get a trial"
[16:50] <Azelphur> I didn't do AML, I don't even have the required documents, money is sitting in my wallet right now
[16:52] <ali1234> money or bitcoins?
[16:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: bitcoins
[16:53] <bigcalm> Where can I convince my fiancee that I should take us for a meal tonight?
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: try cooking something, but fail to find ingredients in cupboard
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: or, if you do, burn the mea
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> l
[16:54] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: where, not how ;)
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> Ah.. Golden Arches?
[16:54] <bigcalm> Classy
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ask Google for a random restaurant in the area?
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> with >25 rating
[16:55] <bigcalm> Lets have a look
[17:00] <AlanBell> bigcalm: there is a brilliant website for that problem
[17:00] <bigcalm> AlanBell: pray tell
[17:00] <AlanBell> http://wherethefuckshouldigotoeat.com/
[17:01] <bigcalm> :O
[17:01] <AlanBell> somewhat rude, but actually works well
[17:01] <bigcalm> See, I'm not a non-swearing person, but going to that site makes me want to not use it because of the swearing
[17:01] <bigcalm> Is there a non-sweary version that's as good?
[17:01] <AlanBell> I don't know
[17:04] <christel> it proposes i go to the gurkha durbar
[17:05]  * christel nods
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> the what?
[17:05] <christel> no idea
[17:06] <christel> it suggest i go to the stepping stones cookie bar for drinks tho
[17:16]  * DJones kicks AlanBell for !language :)
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[17:17] <popey> AlanBell, just used that site and am going to use the recommendation
[17:17] <popey> i will blame you if it's rubbish
[17:18] <popey> http://www.paprikafarnborough.com/
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: their website looks nice
[17:18] <popey> yeah
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> What's their score on Google's rating thing?
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> https://plus.google.com/109024064028036866633/about?hl=en
[17:18] <popey> good prices too
[17:19] <popey> oh wow, good
[17:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: bring your own vinegar, according to that :)
[17:19] <popey> lol
[17:19] <popey> wtf
[17:31] <AlanBell> vinegar is not something I would ever think of adding to anything I would order in an Indian
[17:41] <Azelphur> AlanBell: I'm using that site, and I told it the first two places it offered me were shitty
[17:42] <Azelphur> the third offering, "Jet Ski World"
[17:42] <Azelphur> sounds tasty.
[17:42] <Azelphur> have you ever been so hungry that you ate a Jet Ski? XD
[17:42] <popey> nom
[17:46] <ali1234> i should pester my mate to post his song about jet skis on youtube. it's well funny
[18:15]  * AlanBell is on a youth club night hike
[18:17] <popey> \o/ curry ordered
[18:17] <ubuntufan> Muchos Gracias!
[18:18] <bashrc> after much shenanigans with ATI drivers the verdict is a unanimous...FAIL
[18:19] <popey> hello ubuntufan
[18:19] <ubuntufan> Hello
[18:22] <bigcalm> I put it to Hayley that I should take us to a local pub for expensive dindins. She relented \o/
[18:22] <ubuntufan> Did anyone go to last nights party in London?
[18:22] <zleap> hi
[18:23] <ubuntufan> Hello
[18:29] <christel> your local does expensive food? how very upmarket...
[18:30] <bashrc> conspicuous oppulence
[18:31] <davmor2> christel: that what living out in the wilds does for you
[19:07] <awilkins> Let me guess ; Quantal was out today, the repositories are rammed?
[19:08] <lazarus_> awilkins: i'd assume so
[19:09] <awilkins> 20 glorious kilobytes a second :-)
[19:10] <awilkins> I may torrent the alternate disk and upgrade from it
[19:18] <popey> use a different mirror?
[19:18] <popey> there's loads
[19:29] <popey> MartijnVdS, the curry was great!
[20:01] <daubers> Why does Quantel think I have two batteries???
[20:26] <daftykins> went to a restaurant myself tonight, for Guernsey's 'Tennerfest' event, although the meals haven't really been a tenner for years XD
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> Woo, new Demoscene Time Machine track! http://soundcloud.com/demoscenetimemachine/demoscene-time-machine-sunken
[20:50] <ali1234> has anyone played the new xcom game yet? is it good? does it work in wine?
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> I heard it captures the spirit of the old xcom games
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> don't know about wine
[20:52] <daftykins> reminds me, i was told to try that xcom demo on the xbox
[20:52] <gord> it has no inventory, has unlimited ammo and no randomized levels so i decided to wait until its super cheep
[20:53] <ali1234> wat
[20:53] <ali1234> unlimited ammo -_-
[20:53] <MartijnVdS> cool.. I got a personal video message from the Sugru people
[20:54] <ali1234> this review says there's no action points
[21:07] <daftykins> have any of you guys ever been involved with laying a network cable between houses?
[21:07] <daftykins> i wonder if it's as simple as to have a core you connect to an earth at both ends
[21:13] <ali1234> you use armoured cable
[21:14] <ali1234> http://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/product.htm?product=External-Grade-Steel-Wire-Armoured-Shielded-Cat6-Cable
[21:15] <ali1234> i wonder if power line networking would work between two houses?
[21:16] <daftykins> in my client's place, it doesn't even work between basement and kitchen :)
[21:16] <ali1234> works good for me
[21:16] <ali1234> googles says it doesn't work between houses in the UK
[21:16] <szymon_g> hi
[21:16] <daubers> ali1234: RCD's are in the way
[21:17] <daubers> How it works in your house depends on the ring layout of the sockets
[21:17] <daftykins> i'll be wanting gigabit between the places too
[21:17] <ali1234> my house is so old, it does not have rings
[21:17] <ali1234> everything is on spurs
[21:17] <daftykins> indeed, quality of mains wiring and placement of appliances too
[21:18] <daubers> That's why it works all around :)
[21:19] <ali1234> rings cause echos?
[21:19] <ali1234> makes a kind of twisted sense i suppose
[21:21] <ali1234> i have some of those remote control sockets. they don't work at all...
[21:21] <daftykins> we lost a lot of gear to a lightning strike a bit ago too
[21:21] <ali1234> i lost a modem and the computer's serial port once from lightning
[21:21] <daftykins> that's a point, on another unrelated topic, got this UPS i had to dial the sensitivity down on to even stay 'online' - what gives :S
[21:22] <ali1234> very unclean power
[21:22] <daftykins> nah, power source hasn't changed
[21:22] <daftykins> maybe it's the UPS getting old
[21:22] <ali1234> we used to get that. the voltage on our mains would drift between 220 and 250v
[21:22] <daubers> ali1234: They don't work between rings as there is something in (modern) fuse boxes that stops the signal moving between the rings
[21:22] <ali1234> but it got fixed at some point
[21:22] <daftykins> got the same model around the same house y'see, hasn't changed for them
[21:23] <ali1234> daubers: that doesn't seem to be the case here. each room in my house is on a different port on the fuse box. it's just that each room has a spur rather than a ring
[21:23] <daubers> ali1234: How old is the fuse box? Is it fuses or all RCD's?
[21:24] <ali1234> the fuse box is like 10 years old
[21:24] <ali1234> it has those resettable fuses
[21:24] <daftykins> my place in Portsmouth used to have the original porcelain and fuse wire :D
[21:24] <ali1234> where it trips if a lightbulb blows
[21:24] <daftykins> that was so ghetto
[21:24] <ali1234> and you have to go and flip it back up
[21:24] <daftykins> nasty
[21:24] <daftykins> i had to get mine upgraded when the electric shower died and i wanted a newer one
[21:24] <daubers> RCD's. That's interesting. Box mustn't have the no return bit in
[21:24] <ali1234> yeah we used to have to wrap a new bit of fuse wire around the terminals
[21:25] <ali1234> got a new proper fuse box but obviously could not rewire the whole house
[21:25] <daftykins> :>
[21:25] <ali1234> house is pre-war
[21:25]  * MartijnVdS is considering re-wiring
[21:25] <daftykins> mm Ports one i had was built 1890s
[21:25] <daubers> daftykins: They could have just done what the people who owned my house before me did! 8mm cable from the shower, but under the floor it went to 3mm wire into the fuse box \o/
[21:25] <daftykins> >_<
[21:25] <daftykins> how very failtastic
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> I have "60s" wires everywhere..
[21:26] <daftykins> what rating shower did you have on it?
[21:26] <daubers> nice blackish brown marks all along the plasterboard under the floorboards
[21:26] <daftykins> lmao
[21:26] <daubers> 8kw
[21:26] <daftykins> cor
[21:26] <daftykins> that's deffo a fair chunk over spec
[21:26] <daubers> :)
[21:26] <daubers> glad we got rid of it!
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> 3mm wire for 8kW? That's.. scary
[21:26] <daftykins> i'm viewing a house here in Guernsey tomorrow
[21:26] <daubers> firetastic!
[21:27] <daftykins> 3 bed townhouse, £315k
[21:27] <daubers> ooof
[21:27] <daftykins> location isn't too great though, right on the road :S
[21:27] <daftykins> yeah Guernsey prices are nuts
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> They told me not to use my kettle on 2.5mm cable
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> well 2.5mm²
[21:28] <daubers> MartijnVdS: You probably shouldn't. 2.5mm^2 isn't even used these days, it's generally 3mm or more
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> so 1.8mm diameter
[21:28] <daftykins> makes sense
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> daubers: the rest of the house is 3mm
[21:28] <daftykins> unless you enter the kitchen and don safety gear immediately :>
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> the cable is rated for 20A
[21:30] <ali1234> what's the deal with halogen lightbulbs?
[21:30] <ali1234> seems like they aren't any more power efficient than the old incandescent ones
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> no bu the incandescent ones are banned now
[21:31] <ali1234> they're much brighter than CFLs though
[21:31] <ali1234> so yeah, are they jus making them to get around the law or what?
[21:31]  * daubers has started rotating LED bulbs into most places
[21:31] <ali1234> i want to get LEDs but they are expensive
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> I've had CFLs for ages.. as long as they work, no LEDs for me :)
[21:32] <ali1234> CFLs are still bad :(
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> Once the CFLs start going bad, I'll get LEDs
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> I want low-voltage DC throughout the house, so I can put in LEDs without extra transformers :)
[21:33] <daubers> It's mostly the low voltage bulbs that are popping frequently, so they're getting replaced faster
[21:33] <ali1234> i want ATX power connectors instead of regular wall sockets
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ooooh! so you can use "UPS cords" to connect your PC?
[21:34] <ali1234> so my PC doesn't need a big noisy power supply in it
[21:34] <ali1234> that will be in the basement or something
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> so, a house-wide 12V, 5V and 3.3V rail
[21:34] <ali1234> yeah. and -12V too?
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> why not
[21:34] <ali1234> whatever ATX needs, i dunno off hand
[21:35] <ali1234> probably would be impractical
[21:35] <ali1234> unless i had 10 PCs in every room
[21:37] <daftykins> chap i work for has very extensive lighting systems. should see the size of the control boards and what not that run them, they have a really nasty idle noise level though
[21:44] <daftykins> ali1234: looks quite nice that armoured cable you linked to, thanks
[21:45] <daftykins> even suggests some inter-connection contraptions to attach to what we have internally \o/
[21:45] <daftykins> time to see if CPC have the same thing
[21:45] <daftykins> confound you raspberry pi's and your tempting nature...
[21:50] <ali1234> you could use fibre if you're worried about the electrical stuff
[21:51] <daftykins> nah they should be pretty safe from noise
[21:51] <mgdm> google 'ronja' of you want something somewhat silly but extremely cool
[21:51] <mgdm> /of/if/
[21:51] <daftykins> but, at present it's going to go through plastic tubing along a garden wall for about... 50m
[21:51] <daftykins> there's already 4 really basic phone level cat5 going along
[21:52] <mgdm> 'phone level cat5'?
[21:52] <mgdm> phone cable is cat3, IIRC?
[21:52] <daftykins> that then :)
[21:52] <mgdm> hehe
[21:52] <daftykins> really thin sketchy stuff
[21:52] <daftykins> but i'm wanting to put a backup device/storage system in at the other end as well as provision a second building with wired+wireless LAN
[21:52] <mgdm> 50m of decent cat5 inside a tube would probably be fine
[21:53] <mgdm> wouldn't even need armoured, necessarily
[21:53] <mgdm> I'd run two, just in case :)
[21:53] <daftykins> yeah, could be good to do well though
[21:53] <ali1234> armoured cat6 is only £3/m
[21:53] <daftykins> yeah i was thinking that
[21:53] <daftykins> he's a pretty wealthy guy. the house is worth about 3.5 million
[21:53] <daftykins> so i'll give him the options at least
[21:53] <mgdm> buggrit then, fibre all the way ;-)
[21:53] <ali1234> garden hose, 50p/m
[21:53] <daftykins> XD
[21:54] <daftykins> thing is, what does fibre cost to lay and terminate =E
[21:54] <daftykins> i did get a 24 port netgear managed switch with fibre ports
[21:54] <ali1234> regular CAT6 £1/m
[21:54] <daftykins> for the main house
[21:54] <daftykins> haha
[21:54] <mgdm> depends on the type of fibre
[21:54] <ali1234> so you're only doubling the price really, to do it propelrly :)
[21:54] <mgdm> there's various options
[21:54] <daftykins> water based intertubes!
[21:54] <daftykins> mmm
[21:55] <daftykins> i'll see what his electrician can provide
[21:55] <daftykins> or just go to one myself, trade accounts are handy
[21:55] <daftykins> :>
[21:56] <daftykins> has anyone ever dealt with... http://www.simplymailsolutions.com/ ?
[21:58] <daftykins> gonna try their hosted Exchange 2010 product out for a small biz
[22:04] <mgdm> not I
[22:06] <daftykins> got a guy with Fasthosts' one at the moment, but he and another person want to share calendars between domains ;/
[22:06] <daftykins> so you have to be with the same company sadly
[22:06] <daftykins> and one user is a mac user, so i can't go google apps :(