[07:32] <bartje> hi all
[07:34] <bartje> how's 12.10 doing? should I upgrade?
[07:43] <scarecrow> no problems mounting USB to this laptop using the same install medium.   just need to wipe my main laptop and reinstall i guess
[07:43] <ailo-w> bartje: Only if you feel you need to, IMO.
[07:43] <ailo-w> scarecrow: Weird
[07:43] <ailo-w> Wonder what's so special about your first install
[07:44] <scarecrow> sometimes stuff happens. no updates out yet to replace screwy files
[07:45] <scarecrow> learned in windows, if you see something screwy during the install, dont proceed. start over
[07:46] <bartje> ailo-w: well, with the 'real-time' issues in the past, I was wondering if the lowlatency kernel still is available in 12.10...
[07:47] <ailo-w> bartje: -lowlatency is now, and will be a standard Ubuntu Studio kernel
[07:47] <ailo-w> It's not realtime. It's a reconfigured -generic, with more agressive Preempt setting
[07:48] <ailo-w> bartje: The issue with -realtime was that there wouldn't be a patch for every kernel release
[07:48] <bartje> ailo-w: I know
[07:49] <bartje> I've had really bad issues getting some good jackd results, just want to be sure
[07:49] <ailo-w> bartje: For -lowlatency, there is a small patch on the LTS release, but it's only to enable the use of the rtirq script by default. Now, the patch is not needed anymore, so -lowlatency has no extra code at all
[07:50] <bartje> ailo-w: and for firewire audio, do I still need to change some config files to get it working?
[07:51] <ailo-w> bartje: Other than giving realtime prio for the user (which is enabled by default on US), you don't need any configs for firewire, since at least 10.10
[07:51] <ailo-w> As for firewire, specifically, you need to at least be member of audio group, to start jack
[07:54] <bartje> and about cpu-frequency- caling... ?
[08:02] <ailo-w> bartje: There are not gui tools made by Ubuntu Studio to handle that atm. So, you'll need to use whatever you like to use normally
[08:03] <ailo-w> We wouldn't set CPU scaling to performance by default, since it would cause issues for people on laptops, with overheating and such, especially if you can't even tell that your CPU is set to max.
[08:03] <bartje> just found ricardo Lameiro's python script for that, seems to work, might be interesting to work that one out to an item in the configuration menu of ubuntustudio
[08:03] <ailo-w> There are some ideas about creating a control application for things like that.
[08:04] <ailo-w> bartje: You are free to make suggestions on the ubuntustudio-devel mail list
[08:04] <ailo-w> or the -user list, for that matter
[08:04] <bartje> indeed, looking at the code now, would be fun to fiddle with it to get it a really usable item :-D
[08:07] <ailo-w> bartje: Have a look https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/audio-settings
[08:08] <ailo-w> It's very sketchy, and not very well maintained. We have added one config, that is supposed to help midi performance on 12.10
[08:08] <ailo-w> Hopefully towards 13.04, we will see a bunch of new additions
[08:09] <ailo-w> In the system control gui department
[08:10] <ailo-w> bartje: I have this project in the freezer atm. As soon as I have time, I will make it happen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioControls
[08:11] <ailo-w> There's also the applications that falktx is developing, the guy behind kxstudio. He will be pushing them into Debian soonish, so they will appear in Ubuntu Studio as well'
[08:17] <bartje> that's great news :-)
[09:40] <livingdaylight> greetings
[10:27] <livingdaylight> this is very dynamic channel
[11:05] <ailo-w> livingdaylight: I sense some irony there
[11:09]  * XRS1 sighs *
[11:10] <ailo-w> XRS1: Is that a sigh of relief (one could always hope)
[11:10] <XRS1> fresh install, same media, main laptop. Once again I cant mount any USB devices on Gateway NV5378u laptop.
[11:12] <XRS1> my 11 year old compaq evo n610c runs ubuntu studio like a dream. no USB problems (only problem is some known issues that are already being worked on)
[11:14] <XRS1> never seen anything like this. i get a different error message no matter how i approach it. didnt have this problem in xubuntu 12.04.1 or kubuntu 12.04 (or ever)
[11:15] <XRS1> only thing i can think of is i need to take the laptop apart and unplug the webcam (it doesnt work, its somehow broken.)
[11:15] <livingdaylight> ailo, no, never! :p
[11:16] <ailo-w> XRS1: I'd just try googling on the different error messages. But, also, if you don't need to upgrade to 12.10, you could just stick with 12.04.1
[11:16] <XRS1> what WM did 12.04.1 use?
[11:19] <XRS1> xfce?
[11:21] <ailo-w> XRS1: It's been XFCE since 11.10 I think. The 12.04.1 release is not much different from 12.10 I think. Not much benefit in upgrading, unless you want more up to date applications (but you could always just add some PPA's for them too)
[11:22] <XRS1> that'll do i'll give that a try. in the meantime it works great on the other laptop
[11:24] <XRS1> first ill try the webcam. that really needs to come out anyway
[11:25] <ailo-w> XRS1: Still, it would probably be interesting for someone to know about your problem.
[11:25] <ailo-w> XRS1: If you like, make a bug report on it, before you uninstall
[11:25] <ailo-w> XRS1: Make the bug report to Ubuntu in that case
[11:26] <ailo-w> XRS1: Maybe it's kernel related (would seem likely, since the diff is only in HW)
[11:26] <ailo-w> XRS1: Here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[11:27] <ailo-w> XRS1: Do you have a launchpad account? If not, begin by going here https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/NewAccount
[11:29] <ailo-w> XRS1: Since we don't know what is causing the bug, I would just do: ubuntu-bug nautilus
[11:29] <ailo-w> And follow instructions
[11:29] <XRS1> lol
[11:29] <ailo-w> The problem is getting someone to confirm it, since it seems to be HW related
[13:28] <Plaid> anyone in the #ubuntustudio forum using MediaTomb with 12.04?
[13:29] <Plaid> Looking for some solid suggestions for a how-to walkthrough
[13:33] <Plaid> well, I may have to belay that request...it seems Ubuntu has added it to the repositories...
[14:37] <smartboyhw> Yay holstein thanks
[15:39] <Winko> Doing the upgrade to 12.10 any suggestions, tips and or tricks?
[15:46] <holstein> sure
[15:46] <holstein> Winko: backup and do a fresh install
[15:46] <holstein> Winko: or, just use the LTS unless there is something you really need
[15:46] <holstein> 12.10 looks great thgouh
[15:46] <holstein> though*
[15:52] <Winko> OK I have LTS now... Just w ant to be on the cutting edge.
[15:52] <Winko> Why do fresh install? So much garbage left behind?
[15:52] <holstein> Winko: its just a suggestion
[15:52] <Winko> THNX fot the tip!
[15:52] <holstein> i prefer it
[15:52] <Winko> Ah ok THNX! Experienced?
[15:53] <holstein> you mean, do i have experience? sure
[15:53] <Winko> Eperience with 12.10?
[15:53] <holstein> i just did the QA tests and played with the 64bit one
[15:53] <holstein> its nice...
[15:53] <Winko> And????
[15:53] <Winko> Ah
[15:54] <holstein> im still running 10.04 on my audio production machine
[15:54] <holstein> would i install 12.10? sure..
[15:54] <Winko> OK I understand
[15:54] <holstein> its nice.. check it out live an se for yourself
[15:54] <holstein> and see*
[15:54] <Winko> Busy now with the upgrade
[15:55] <Winko> I can't wait
[15:55] <holstein> yeah, but you will
[15:55] <Winko> Loved the 12.04 version!
[15:55] <holstein> i find, best case, and upgrade takes a few hours
[15:55] <holstein> i can do an install in a few minutes
[15:55] <holstein> but ,thats just preference
[15:55] <holstein> you'll be fine
[15:55] <Winko> Pfeww thnx!
[15:56] <holstein> we tested the upgrade path... there was something funny, but you can sort it out
[15:56] <Winko> I don't mind waiting (holidays)
[15:56] <Winko> As long as I can get a terminal, I'm fine ;-)
[15:57] <Winko> 90% of the download...
[15:58] <Winko> Do you know what the funny part was, if so can you tell me please?
[15:58] <holstein> soemthing about the meta packages
[15:59] <holstein> you might end up with no audio packages.. i forget how that went down
[15:59] <Winko> OK!?
[15:59] <holstein> no big deal, just apt-cache search ubuntustudio
[15:59] <Winko> Thats the most important thing for me...
[15:59] <holstein> im not saying you cant have them
[15:59] <Winko> Pfeww :-)
[16:00] <Winko> APT-GET wil get us ther ;-)
[16:00] <holstein> im just saying the names changed, and we either had to push the whole thing out, or not have them, and i dont remember which way it went
[16:00] <holstein> you still have a full system
[16:00] <holstein> i *always* fresh install
[16:00] <Winko> thank goodness
[16:00] <holstein> best case, after a few hours of messing about, and some post install trickery, you'll get what you could have in 10 minutes
[16:01] <holstein> but, again.. thats just my opinion
[16:01] <Winko> Most of the time I do too but this time I've got no disk to backup to
[16:01] <Winko> You are so right!
[16:01] <holstein> you willl get a backup disk when that disk dies
[16:02] <holstein> thats usually my argument.. you should have it backed up anyways
[16:02] <holstein> and you shouldnt do something so potentially breakable without having stuff backd up
[16:02] <Winko> I have a backup disk but not with me on my holidays in France :-)
[16:02] <holstein> all drives fail
[16:03] <Winko> I know what you mean, we've all been there. But the backup disk are in a safe @ home...
[16:04] <holstein> as long as you're ok if you reboot and nothing is there
[16:04] <holstein> i could postulate quite a few plausible failure scenarios that might make you wish you had waited
[16:04] <Winko> I still have my bootable USB pendrive with 12.04
[16:05] <Winko> Please no scenarios ;-)
[16:06] <holstein> i always just plan for the real world options that do occur
[16:06] <holstein> hard drives fail
[16:06] <holstein> if you're ok with the risk, go for it, and enjoy being on the edge
[16:07] <Winko> I will thank you :-) you're too kind! :-)
[16:08] <Winko> Don't leave home without a bootable pendrive!
[16:08] <holstein> yup.. you can boot in and see that your files are stil on the hard drive if bad things happen
[16:09] <Winko> Yep... And you can make music on any piece of old hardware you run into :-)
[16:10] <Winko> Preparing for upgrade now...
[16:15] <Winko> THNX holstein, I'll check in later, Regards W.
[17:18] <UberMusik> hey all .. how do I go about disabling frequency scaling in UbuntuStudio 12.0.4.1 64-bit?  Or is this not something I do in the OS? Is this application specific?  My goal is to avoid latency issues in real-time audio production workflows … tnx in advance …
[17:40] <UberMusik> … i'm finding many articles .. but most are several years old .. i read that there are some GUI solutions which can monitor and modify frequency scaling .. but further reading indicated they don't work in 12.04  ….   is there a current solution that is recommended?
[18:50] <UberMusik> so, i found this: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Precise#Disable_CPU_Frequency_scaling
[18:51] <UberMusik> … and then read this disclaimer at the bottom:  "Note: These instructions may not work with newer Linux kernels."
[18:53] <UberMusik> i'm finding this to be a very, very, very, frustrating component of trying to migrate to a linux environment … i'm no guru linux guy .. but i can find my way around .. however, i'm not wiling to try every variation out there and risk putting my system in a state i can't easily revert …  is there really no straight-forward way to disable frequency scaling?   why all the hoops? and disclaimers? and "might work"  or "this might not be the right way to
[20:20] <ailo> UberMusik: The file where you set the governor is at /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[20:21] <ailo> One for each processor (notice the *)
[20:21] <ailo> Haven't yet checked how Ubuntu sets it, but I believe it might be set automatically to ondemand at each login
[20:22] <ailo> you could add a line to /etc/rc.local to set the governor
[20:22] <ailo> If Ubuntu sets it after login, you might need to use sleep so you can override it
[20:24] <ailo> Something like: sleep 30 && echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[20:25] <ailo> UberMusik: It won't give you any performance boost, but it might make the chance of you getting random xruns smaller
[20:29] <ailo> UberMusik: Another, perhaps more clever method would be to have two scripts. One to enable ondemand, and the other to enable performance
[20:30] <ailo> Then you just shift, when you need to
[20:42] <ailo> UberMusik: btw, there have been different applications that let you adjust frequency scaling
[20:42] <ailo> Like a XFCE panel applet
[20:43] <ailo> Since I don't adjust freq scaling myself (never felt the need to), I haven't investigated all the possible ways to adjust it
[20:43] <ailo> There might be a Ubuntu Studio gui tool for doing this for the 13.04 release
[20:44] <ailo> Oh, and I do set my system to really low latencies for audio production
[20:44] <UberMusik> ailo: thanks for that info .. i've copied it into my linux notebook so i can refer back to it when i need it … i need low latency for live recording/performance of midi keyboards ..
[20:44] <UberMusik> ailo: did you say 13.04 ? is that available? in beta? coming soon?
[20:45] <ailo> 12.10 just came out. If there will be a gui tool for 13.04 (to be released 2013.04), most probably I will be the author of it. Haven't yet begun developing it
[20:45] <ailo> If I have time
[20:49] <ailo> UberMusik: One issue is the kernel. In my experience, kernels 2.6.37 and perhaps up to 2.6.39 were a bit better performing
[20:50] <UberMusik> ailo: how do i verify my kernel version? i recently installed 12.04.1 UbuntuSutdio 64-bit ...
[20:50] <ailo> UberMusik: Here's a guide I made on how to build the 2.6.38 kernel on any current distro https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildOldLowlatency
[20:51] <ailo> UberMusik: One way is: apt-cache show linux
[20:51] <ailo> 3.2, I believe
[20:52] <UberMusik> 3.2.0.23.25   … are you suggesting i might need to downgrade my kernel?
[20:52] <ailo> Well, actually, it's made for the 12.04 release
[20:53] <UberMusik> never mind .. i'm RTFM as we speak
[20:53] <ailo> UberMusik: I'm not recommending anything, mind you. But, from my experience, the kernels 2.6.37 and 2.6.38 were a bit more responsive
[20:53] <ailo> UberMusik: Another thing you'd want to do is disable the PA bridge
[20:53] <UberMusik> ailo: not familiar with the PA bridge
[20:53] <ailo> Or, rather, the first thing you should do
[20:53] <ailo> pulseaudio-module-jack
[20:53] <ailo> If you start jack with qjackctl, it's on by default. You see pulseaudio sink and source in connections
[20:54] <UberMusik> my plan is to run Ardour (the latest version) linuxsampler (with fantasia front-end) and maybe one or two other modules ..
[20:55] <UberMusik> i have been running qjackctl from the terminal .. so it sounds like i'm doing the right thing ..
[20:55] <ailo> If you're using qjackct, go to Setup -> Misc, and untoggle "Enable D-bus interface"
[20:55] <UberMusik> ah … i never did anything with that ..
[20:56] <ailo> How do you start jack?
[20:57] <UberMusik> originally, i was using qjackctl from the terminal .. but then when i upgraded to 12.04, i noticed a qjackctl item in the audio drop-down menu
[20:58] <ailo> Well, qjackctl is only to control jack. You can use other programs too, like patchage, or the session manager ladish
[20:58] <ailo> qjackctl is set to start jackdbus by default
[20:58] <ailo> If you unset the dbus option, you start jackd instead, without having the PA bridge autoload
[20:59] <UberMusik> i do use patchage as well ..
[20:59] <ailo> IMO, what generally will help performance the most is the kernel version
[21:00] <ailo> And, not using the PA bridge
[21:00] <ailo> Most other things either do nothing, or help making consistent xrun free performance
[21:01] <UberMusik> ailo: great info .. i'm making note of that … i built a new PC recently, and i'll monitor things as i start building out my workflow … if i start to see xrun issues, i'll know where to start ..
[21:01] <ailo> But, the effect of many configs are so small, in general, that I don't usually waste time on it
[21:02] <ailo> If you have a HW issue, with IRQ conflicts, the rtirq script (rtirq-init) might help, but it could also need to be tuned
[21:02] <ailo> Usually only on laptops
[21:03] <ailo> UberMusik: Oh, here's a good page for sys configs, for audio http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration
[21:03] <ailo> Now, a realtime kernel might not be nessecary at all, but it doesn't hurt to try one
[21:03] <ailo> Again, I think the biggest benefit comes from choosing the right version
[21:04] <ailo> I don't need one, since -lowlatency
[21:04] <UberMusik> ailo: i was under the impression that 12.04 UbuntuStudio has a real-time kernel natively?
[21:04] <ailo> linux-lowlatency has the exact same source as linux-generic (except for one irrelevant patch).
[21:04] <ailo> It's just configured more aggressively for low latency performance
[21:05] <UberMusik> at any rate, your info has been most helpful … i have to run .. but this is tons of information to help me tune my system ..
[21:05] <ailo> linux-realtime (not in the repo) has a patch of code to it
[21:05] <ailo> UberMusik: See ya
[23:02] <holstein> UberMusik: btw, the hoops are usually due to hardware specific cases
[23:03] <holstein> there is no "linux" making sure a small subset of well supported hardware works with it
[23:03] <holstein> it just tried to support what is current, relevant, and able to be supported (legally or technically)
[23:04] <holstein> i find it more about what one is used to using
[23:04] <holstein> i feel a similar level of discomfort when i sit down at a windows machine, and cant do some of the things im usd to doing... doesnt make it right or wrong... just different
[23:30] <studio-user295> hello
[23:32] <studio-user295> decided to upgrade from cd. will see how it goes
[23:33] <xrs1> hiya