[08:05] <popey> mng
[09:00] <mattt> popey: yo dawg
[09:04] <bb15> Hi all!
[09:07] <bb15> hello siriusly!
[09:13] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> howdy brobostigon
[09:13] <brobostigon> hey MartijnVdS
[09:28] <bb15> hey all!
[09:33] <popey> !ping
[09:33] <popey> phew
[10:02] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[10:09] <popey> wheeee
[10:17] <marxjohnson> My main login session is borked :( Can anyone suggest how to fix/reset it? I dont mind losing some settings if that's what it takes http://askubuntu.com/questions/203441/x-crash-at-login-for-1-user
[10:19] <dwatkins> marxjohnson: can you login on the text console?
[10:22] <marxjohnson> yep
[10:23] <dwatkins> anything in /var/log that might indicate a recent problem?
[10:24] <popey> marxjohnson, did you start the second  "startx" under the same user as the first one?
[10:24] <marxjohnson> I couldn't find anything, but I'm not really sure where to look.
[10:24] <marxjohnson> popey: no
[10:25] <popey> check ~/.xsession-errors
[10:25] <marxjohnson> I was logged in as user1, ran startx as user2, now user2 is broken
[10:25] <popey> wb Daviey
[10:25] <popey> marxjohnson, bought a nexus 7 :)
[10:25] <popey> Where'd you get your cover and pen thing?
[10:26] <marxjohnson> popey: xsession errors hasn't been modified since before the problem started
[10:27] <popey> can you login as a guest?
[10:28] <marxjohnson> cover is one of these: http://is.gd/xdPi8z stylus is one of these: http://is.gd/WIsPA6
[10:28] <marxjohnson> Probably, I can still log in as user1
[10:28] <popey> oh
[10:28] <popey> hmm
[10:29] <popey> marxjohnson, its ubuntu not kubuntu or anything else silly is it?
[10:29] <popey> also pastebin the /var/log/Xorg.0.log after it crashes
[10:29] <marxjohnson> I've got a few desktop environments installed, none of them work for user2
[10:30] <marxjohnson> I'll give that a shot now, hold on
[10:30] <popey> if you install pastebinit, you can "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
[10:32] <marxjohnson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1291715
[10:33] <popey> what the hell is that? :)
[10:33] <marxjohnson> whoops
[10:33] <marxjohnson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1291751 :)
[10:34] <marxjohnson> sorry I'm in TTYs atm so no copy/paste
[10:34] <popey> heh
[10:34] <popey> what exactly happens ?
[10:34] <popey> you can't login as that user at all
[10:35] <marxjohnson> I type my password, I press enter, X crashes and restarts
[10:35] <popey> you sure its a crash?
[10:35] <popey> not just the session not starting?
[10:35] <popey> does "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" want to install anything extra?
[10:35] <popey> note the caret
[10:36] <marxjohnson> I see the console messages that display before X starts, like if you do ctrl-alt-backspace
[10:37] <popey> sounds to me like some file in your home has wrong permissions
[10:37] <Daviey> hola popey
[10:38] <marxjohnson> hmm, .Xauthority is owned by root for some reason, will that be it?
[10:38] <popey> yes
[10:38] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ ls -l .Xauthority
[10:38] <popey> -rw------- 1 alan alan 57 Oct 19 22:36 .Xauthority
[10:38] <marxjohnson> that apt-get line complains about unmet dependencies for libgwibber
[10:38] <marxjohnson> right, I'll change that
[10:39] <marxjohnson> woot, that worked :)
[10:39] <popey> \o/
[10:39] <marxjohnson> cheers!
[10:39] <popey> win, i can go bowling now
[10:39] <popey> ttfn
[10:39] <popey> np
[10:39] <marxjohnson> haha enjoy
[13:50] <Myrtti> gah I hate the messaging menu being crippled, I don't even know how to troubleshoot
[14:11] <maskoes> test
[14:12] <bashrc_> still attempting to install ATI drivers.  Found this https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa
[14:18] <SuperEngineer> o/
[14:19]  * SuperEngineer thinks they're all down the pub / gone back to bed / installing 12.10
[14:20] <bashrc_> they're hung over from the release party
[14:26] <SuperEngineer> bashrc_: : :D
[14:26] <jacobw> what's new in quantal?
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: the letter "q"
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> the option to give money to Canonical instead of of peeps just using a free gift
[14:28] <bashrc_> Amazon!
[14:28] <bashrc_> and application previews
[14:29] <SuperEngineer> an way to enter all online a/c's in 1 place [twitter/g+]
[14:29] <SuperEngineer> etc
[14:29] <SuperEngineer> n.b - I said "the *option*
[14:31] <SuperEngineer> Oi has a qwestyon...
[14:31] <SuperEngineer> to save me finding out the hard way...
[14:31] <SuperEngineer> if I installed mame from s/w cantre could I use my [old] collection of images from WinXP?  Shoulsd I also also install  mame tools?
[14:34] <bashrc_> The software centre still takes an age to open
[14:34] <bashrc_> I think they need to make that a bit more efficient, or pre-load some stuff
[14:35]  * SuperEngineer ponders the good ol' days of starting software centre ... and seeing it ;)
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> bashrc: you should see it's performance on a netbook... it's a hog!
[14:37] <SuperEngineer> ...a very lazy, tired hog
[14:37] <bashrc_> yes.  I have 12.04 on a  netbook
[14:38] <bashrc_> I think I may install xubuntu on the netbook
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> ditto
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> ...I did d that but went back
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> *do
[14:38] <bashrc_> is unity too enticing?
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> perhaps lubuntu instead...?
[14:39] <bashrc_> gotta have those Amazon ads...sorry *search results*
[14:40] <bashrc_> does lxde have advantages?
[14:40] <SuperEngineer> oooo... Amazon.... yum
[14:40] <SuperEngineer> ~not
[14:41] <SuperEngineer> bashrc: lxde ias not something i've tried
[14:41] <SuperEngineer> [damn keyborard/damn fingers!]
[14:42] <bashrc_> If they could combine the text search of unity with the speed of xfce then that would be an ideal combination
[14:42] <bashrc_> the one thing that xfce lacks is the ability to hit a key and type what you're looking for
[14:43] <SuperEngineer> xfce perhaps... my first netbook had the dreaded Linpus Lite [werewolf] on it.... fast!
[14:43] <SuperEngineer> then I went the Ubuntu way... used to be fast
[14:43] <bashrc_> 10.x pretty much rocked
[14:43] <SuperEngineer> +1
[14:47]  * SuperEngineer remebers of the Ubuntu quest to provide an op sys even old pooters in Africa could use
[14:47] <SuperEngineer> ah well...
[14:47] <bashrc_> yes
[14:49] <bashrc_> I think the installer from 11.x onwards requires a minimum of 1GB RAM
[14:50] <SuperEngineer> would be interesting to see the updated definition of the word "Ubuntu"...
[14:51] <SuperEngineer> "oh, well we gave it a try, now give your hardeware manufacturer some money" [perhaps]
[14:52] <bashrc_> At the bashrc residence we are old-skool
[14:53]  * SuperEngineer congrats bashrc_ 
[14:53] <bashrc_> Yes, there are computers here with < 1GB memory.  Shock!
[14:56] <SuperEngineer> bashrc_: as a matter of curiosity only.. does it need to use the swap at all?
[14:56] <bashrc_> sometimes
[14:56] <SuperEngineer> [I run 2GB here... no swap useage encountered]
[14:56] <bashrc_> on the older computers I just run Debian
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> ...as long as you don't ask them to run a 4 minute mile!
[15:07] <SuperEngineer> http://tinyurl.com/8fo3kuh ... yuk, not fair, bad way to go [& my sympathies to any concerned]
[15:10] <bashrc_> fglrx still seems broken
[15:11] <bashrc_> "no supported adapters"
[15:19]  * SuperEngineer curses the "borrowed" broadband... perhaps I should complain to the owner? ;)
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> or get your own? ;)
[15:19] <bashrc_> are you war driving?
[15:20] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: tempting... hmmm... pkone line install cost + £15x12/yr... or borrow... hmmmm again ;(
[15:21]  * SuperEngineer thinks... nah! borrow and curse & again... cheeps
[15:21] <SuperEngineer> *now and again
[15:23] <SuperEngineer> bashrc_: pehaps I should go mark the front door and do a bit of war chalking as well...
[15:23] <MartijnVdS> that's so 2001
[15:24] <SuperEngineer> my borrowing is sort of legit... I helped the owner make it a secure router...
[15:25] <SuperEngineer> ...I forgot to forget the password, that's all ;)
[15:26]  * SuperEngineer hums virtual Dr. Who theme to MartijnVdS 
[15:43] <bashrc_> zomg it worked!  The legacy ATI drivers installed!
[15:43] <bashrc_> 3D graphics refresh at > 1Hz
[15:43] <MartijnVdS> Why not the free ones?
[15:43] <bashrc_> the free ones are ok up to a point
[15:44] <bashrc_> but if I try running anything that really uses 3D graphics then it either wouldn't run or ran so slowly as to be unusable
[15:44] <SuperEngineer> Still pondering the install of MAME from s/w centre... would it be able to use the ROMs from my old WinXP ok?
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> MAME ROMs are MAME ROMs
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> also.. you have an XP ROM for MAME?!
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> I don't think it'd be a fun game to play
[15:48] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nah! the roms are on the WinXP partition
[15:48] <SuperEngineer> they are - as you say - just roms
[15:49] <SuperEngineer> if I had an XP rom .. i'd be a little bit richer right now
[15:49]  * SuperEngineer installs MAME from s/w centre
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> ...and prepares to to feel older#
[15:53] <bashrc_> with the proprietary drivers flightgear now runs!
[15:53] <bashrc_> chocks away
[15:55] <SuperEngineer> bashrc: watch out for that Hercules landing above you!
[15:56] <SuperEngineer> bashrc_: watch out for that Hercules landing above you!
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> s/Hercules/TARDIS/
[15:57] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: definitely!
[15:58] <SuperEngineer> ...sometimes the controls arn't gonna do what I meant them to!
[16:00]  * SuperEngineer bets that "arn't" is not going to make it into the OED
[16:03] <SuperEngineer> watching BBC news... SNP just described English parliamentarians as a "bunch of Lord Snooties"... obviously not knowing who current members are!!
[16:03] <SuperEngineer> [sorry - that meant for twitter]
[16:03] <bashrc_> sounds pretty accurate
[16:03] <SuperEngineer> bashrc:  ;)
[16:42] <SuperEngineer> bbs
[17:01] <mattt> HAAAAI
[17:06] <jacobw> oh hai thar
[17:48] <penguin42> is anyone else seeing a rise in physical junk mail sent to their home address with a bogus name on?
[17:49] <bashrc_> no
[17:49] <penguin42> hmm
[18:37] <ali1234> penguin42: do you live at 123 fake street?
[18:38] <penguin42> ali1234: Damn! How did you know!
[19:00]  * SuperEngineer hums Bjork doing So Quiet... 
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Ssshh!
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Ssshh!
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> I'll be in Dublin next week.. anything I shouldn't miss?
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: ^ ? :)
[19:44] <christel> dont miss czajkowski!
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: last time I saw czajkowski was in London last year
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> christel: ^
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> During this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/5987897531/in/photostream/lightbox/
[19:45] <christel> hehe
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> We went to a science fiction expo in the BL
[19:48] <mattt> MartijnVdS: only thing you won't want to miss is your flight out of dublin
[19:48]  * mattt jokes -- never been
[19:49] <shauno> MartijnVdS: the rest of the country ;)
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I have 3 days
[19:50] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: when going to dublin... be sure not to miss the airpoet [pass msd onto pilot as well]
[19:50] <SuperEngineer> *airport
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I think AerLingus pilots know how to get there
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> Ooh, Google Maps has birds-eye (45-degree) pics instead of top-down
[19:57] <SuperEngineer> http://preview.tinyurl.com/u-tweak  [news re Ubuntu Tweak] might interest some
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Tweak? Is that the new Automatix?
[20:05] <ali1234> how many links in that chain?
[20:05] <ali1234> can someone find the OP?
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ?
[20:06] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: 2
[20:06] <ali1234> http://blog.ubuntu-tweak.com/2012/10/19/the-development-of-ubuntu-tweak-is-stopped.html#more-1417
[20:07] <SuperEngineer> one for safety, one to view
[20:07] <ali1234> the tinyurl points to a blog, which points to another blog
[20:07] <ali1234> which doesn't actually link to the original announcement
[20:08] <ali1234> so what apps did they have in the apps section?
[20:09] <SuperEngineer> the tinyurl point to the linux today page... that gives the guts of the story... the 2read whole story" points to where it tells you in the adress bar of your browser
[20:09] <ali1234> the linuxtoday page is just a rehash of thepowerbase.com article
[20:10] <SuperEngineer> [ooo I know... I'll post a " just a rehash of thepowerbase.com article" - that'll help everybody
[20:11] <SuperEngineer> [i know... sarcasm... cheap]
[20:12] <SuperEngineer> just thought it might be useful info for *some*
[20:13] <ali1234> it's always better to link to the primary source
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> perhaps I assumed too much common sense
[20:17] <SuperEngineer> my apologies
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> maybe common sense isn't as common as you hoped? :)
[20:18] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[20:44] <ali1234> common sense is neither common nor sensical
[20:57] <bashrc> Ubuntu tweak dead? Nooooooooo!
[21:38] <cliftonts> hi everyone
[21:39] <cliftonts> anyone here fancy a challenge?
[21:40] <cliftonts> anybody here???
[21:41] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps
[21:42] <cliftonts> Aah! there's one!
[21:42] <ali1234> what kind of challenge?
[21:43] <ali1234> you know i need something to do when i'm ranting on g+
[21:44] <cliftonts> did we meet at the launch party?
[21:48] <ali1234> me? no
[21:48] <cliftonts> ok
[21:48] <ali1234> i was not there
[21:48] <cliftonts> well I need to create a unity lens which shows the results from a zen cart website
[21:49] <ali1234> i don't use unity, sorry
[21:49] <cliftonts> but the whole process seems very badly documented
[21:49] <ali1234> yeah
[21:49] <ali1234> try quickly, it has a lens template in extras
[21:49] <cliftonts> I need to either find someone who knows about this or someone who can point me in the right direction
[21:49] <ali1234> also try #ubuntu-unity i think
[21:49] <cliftonts> I've used it and now I have a unity lens that does nothing and no info about how to make it do stuff
[21:50] <ali1234> well good luck finding documentation that isn't out of date
[21:50] <cliftonts> I've found a tutorial about how to make a wikipedia lens but I have no idea how much of that to disregard because it's wikipedia or what to replace it with
[21:50] <ali1234> well it boils down to this:
[21:50] <ali1234> 1. fetch html
[21:50] <ali1234> 2. parse it
[21:51] <ali1234> 3. enumerate parse tree as lens items
[21:51] <ali1234> but further than that i cannot say
[21:51] <ali1234> try looking at the source of another lens that is similar to what you want
[21:51] <cliftonts> well, 1 and 2 sound great, 3 is just words thrown into a sentence to make gibberish
[21:52] <cliftonts> and I have no idea how to put all that into practice
[21:52] <ali1234> you find the api call to add items to the lens
[21:52] <ali1234> then you call it once with each item you want to add
[21:52] <cliftonts> Again, no idea where to find the source for a lens, it would help if o2 3g was actually working but getting on here is about all I can do right now!
[21:52] <ali1234> what you do, is you open synaptic first
[21:52] <cliftonts> find the what to do the who now?
[21:53] <ali1234> then you find a lens package that you have installed, or install one
[21:53] <ali1234> then you right click and click properties
[21:53] <ali1234> then go to the installed files tab
[21:53] <cliftonts> don't have synaptic and can't install it
[21:53] <ali1234> then look through that list and find the source code
[21:53] <ali1234> unfortunately software center does not have this feature, because it's dumbed down to the point of being useless
[21:53] <cliftonts> seriously the o2 network is very poorly, installing anything is not an option until I can get near wifi
[21:54] <ali1234> you can do dpkg -L <package>
[21:54] <AlanBell> hi cliftonts
[21:54] <ali1234> try apt-cache search lens | grep lens
[21:54] <ali1234> to get the package names
[21:54] <cliftonts> Hi Alan, the lens project does not fare well
[21:55] <cliftonts> it's like trying to speak fluent french without taking lessons
[21:55] <AlanBell> ah
[21:55] <AlanBell> I did a lens, that bit works OK, I don't know zencart well
[21:55] <AlanBell> does it have a search api thing?
[21:55] <cliftonts> and ali1234 has been trying to help me by speaking star trek at me
[21:56] <cliftonts> I've created a lens with quickly but I have no idea what to add for zen cart
[21:56] <cliftonts> I have no idea how the searching works#
[21:58] <cliftonts> you know it strikes me once I've built this thing it will be really useful, surely it could be a one size fits all lens, just download, change the URLs and bang! Instant zen cart lens
[21:59] <AlanBell> indeed
[21:59] <AlanBell> I am just having a poke about the zencart documentation
[21:59] <cliftonts> I'm having a search too
[22:00] <cliftonts> but I think O2 has a terminal illness, it didn't work at all until some time after 3pm today and now only every 7th refresh will load the page
[22:01] <cliftonts> DNS issue I think
[22:03] <cliftonts> ali1234 I'm not sure your suggestion for looking at other lenses will work. I've got things like wikipedia, gwibber, askubuntu, files. I doubt any of these will interact with their targets in the appropriate way
[22:03] <AlanBell> other lenses are good to look at, certainly
[22:03] <ali1234> well, what is the appropriate way?
[22:04] <ali1234> as i said, it's about abstraction
[22:04] <AlanBell> the main thing is finding out what url to request from zencart to get results without all the HTML formatting stuff
[22:04] <ali1234> the interaction with the web service is abstracted from the lens api by the lens code
[22:04] <ali1234> all you need to find in the existing lenses is the api calls you need to fill
[22:04] <cliftonts> AlanBell I've found documentation on the search api
[22:05] <cliftonts> though it doesn't say much
[22:05] <AlanBell> got a link?
[22:06] <cliftonts> yes, it's at the bottom in a section called notifiers. I'm not sure this info is what we need
[22:06] <cliftonts> http://www.zen-cart.com/wiki/index.php/Developers_API_Tutorials#Search:
[22:07] <AlanBell> hmm, that doesn't seem very informative
[22:09] <cliftonts> no but it's all I've found. Is there no way this info can be taken from the result of a search? Or from studying any of the files in the install?
[22:09] <AlanBell> well it could be taken from the results of a search, but that is a bit messy and slower
[22:10] <AlanBell> might be possible to create a small zen cart plugin to provide the right data, I am just surprised it doesn't exist already
[22:10] <cliftonts> maybe it does
[22:12] <cliftonts> so how do we determine it from the search results then?
[22:13] <cliftonts> what about post 5 on here
[22:13] <cliftonts> http://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.php?122256-Remote-search-box-facility
[22:14] <ali1234> you can always scrape it, but it's probably a bad idea, if the theme changes for example
[22:14] <ali1234> better to make a dedicated plugin, if you can
[22:15] <AlanBell> yeah, parsing stuff out of the formatted results is probably not a good idea
[22:15] <ali1234> this is all step 1 stuff anyway
[22:15] <cliftonts> what about that last link I sent. It's a search box to be placed somewhere other than the site
[22:15] <ali1234> probably not suitable
[22:15] <AlanBell> cliftonts: yes, it is, but it will take the user to the full formatted results
[22:16] <ali1234> since it will just take you to the (formatted) site, i guess
[22:16] <cliftonts> Well then I'm not even sure what to search for, let alone what it should look like when I find it
[22:16] <cliftonts> Reading Zen cart docs is like reading a Haynes manual, you've got no hope
[22:17] <AlanBell> heh
[22:17] <ali1234> i could probably implement this for you, but you'd have to pay me :)
[22:18] <cliftonts> For that ali1234 I would require money
[22:18] <ali1234> i accept bitcoin too
[22:18] <AlanBell> well I am interested in having a look at the inside of zen anyway
[22:19] <AlanBell> I think it might need a really small plugin that returns minimalist search results
[22:19] <cliftonts> So what we're looking for, the string that needs producing, if you had to give it a name what would it be?
[22:20] <cliftonts> I don't think searching search command thingie will work
[22:20] <AlanBell> json search API
[22:21] <cliftonts> so we need zen cart to use that api?
[22:22] <AlanBell> well we need some way of throwing a string at zen cart and getting a bunch of results back that we can plug into the lens
[22:22] <AlanBell> I am just installing zen so I can have a poke about
[22:23] <cliftonts> can we look at the code of this plugin perhaps?
[22:23] <cliftonts> http://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1044
[22:23] <cliftonts> it has json support
[22:23] <ali1234> that's going the wrong way really
[22:23] <ali1234> you need something even simpler than that
[22:23] <cliftonts> for creating twitter posts every time you add a producty
[22:24] <ali1234> something like this https://github.com/honestwalker/Zencart-API-service-by-Kancart.com-Mobile
[22:24] <cliftonts> I'm just thinking surely that plugin is doing everything we need, just one product at a time. So the answers must be in there
[22:24] <cliftonts> That sounds interesting
[22:24] <AlanBell> ooh
[22:26] <ali1234> you don't need the full set of that plugin, just a tiny bit of it
[22:26] <ali1234> http://www.ladyada.net/library/zencart/dailystats2.html
[22:26] <ali1234> just hack that to return products, instead stats :)
[22:26] <cliftonts> Ok, I'm not sure where to start on that, quite a few files
[22:29] <cliftonts> Something to bare in mind is that we're using version 1.3.9 but will be upgrading to 1.5 next week. I'm not sure what effect that will have on any of these plugins
[22:30] <ali1234> probably not much. the plugin should not be more than 50 lines.
[22:30] <ali1234> even if you have to totally rewrite it it won't be much work.
[22:31] <cliftonts> Won't be much work for someone like you. I'm not used to working in situations where I can't picture what I'm trying to do in my head
[22:32] <cliftonts> It's not fun
[22:32] <ali1234> well developing an intuitive mental model of the system is the first step
[22:32] <ali1234> for that you need to read the API docs, twice
[22:32] <cliftonts> I'm guessing with that stats program we'd just be looking at adjusting the sql calls to query the right tables
[22:32] <ali1234> yeah, exactly
[22:32] <ali1234> so you need to look at the database schema too
[22:33] <cliftonts> I can't even find the damn api docs lol
[22:33] <ali1234> this is low level stuff you won't find in high level docs
[22:33] <ali1234> you need to find the developer docs, or just look at the source
[22:33] <cliftonts> I'm very familiar with my database, thankfully
[22:33] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/zen I have a store \o/
[22:34] <cliftonts> great, is it as ugly as every stock zen install?
[22:34] <ali1234> it's a bit 2001 isn't it...
[22:34] <AlanBell> yup, pretty grim :)
[22:34] <AlanBell> so, a standard search URL looks like this http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/zen/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=unreal
[22:35] <cliftonts> yup that looks about right
[22:35] <AlanBell> and you can see the keyword being passed in on the URL
[22:35] <cliftonts> actually no, mine don't look quite like that
[22:35] <cliftonts> http://cliftonts.co.uk/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=ef053e8599614f58501909190badd8af&x=0&y=0&keyword=tenga
[22:35] <AlanBell> we just need an unthemed results page that strips out all the cosmetic gubbins and just returns the data (product name and image)
[22:35] <cliftonts> why do I have a nonsensical string of numbers?
[22:36] <AlanBell> see there was a reason I wasn't using your store to test this :)
[22:36] <ali1234> cart id
[22:36] <ali1234> (session id)
[22:36] <cliftonts> Aah got it
[22:37] <cliftonts> Alan dispite what has been suggested at the launch I doubt anyone here is even slightly interested in the contents of my store
[22:39] <ali1234> what do you sell?
[22:39] <AlanBell> anyhow, this is a generic thing, just making a lens for zen carts in general
[22:39] <ali1234> do you accept bitcoin?
[22:39] <dogmatic69> What is with all the shopping carts lately?
[22:39] <cliftonts> ali1234 products your not old enough to buy
[22:40] <cliftonts> and no, not at this stage (make it go first)
[22:40] <ali1234> what, like stana stairlifts?
[22:40] <cliftonts> Not quite
[22:41] <ali1234> jeans with elasticated waist bands?
[22:41] <ali1234> <insert old people stereotype here>
[22:42] <cliftonts> does anyone actually use bitcoin anyway?
[22:42] <cliftonts> I'd love to get away from paypal but I'm not sure the masses will accept anything else
[22:42] <ali1234> at least get google checkout
[22:43] <ali1234> i won't use paypal, too much trouble
[22:43] <cliftonts> we have an account for google checkout but I've got many things to do to the site before I start adding features
[22:43] <cliftonts> I'm hoping all will be well by the end of next week
[22:44] <cliftonts> Alans gone quiet. Think he's got his head buried deep in a php file somewhere?
[22:45] <AlanBell> /includes/modules/pages/advanced_search_result/header_php.php to be precise
[22:45] <ali1234> it's the best way
[22:45] <ali1234> just start reading the code
[22:45] <ali1234> doesn't matter if you don't understand it
[22:46] <ali1234> eventually you'll find a way in, a piece you do understand
[22:46] <cliftonts> I can follow a fair amount of it, but again I don't know quite what I'm looking for
[22:46] <ali1234> and from that you can work outwards, looking at the code that uses/is used by the subset you do understand
[22:46] <ali1234> you're looking specifically for the code that generates the list of products when you do a search
[22:47] <ali1234> that will call a template function that generates the html (assuming that zencart uses MVC, which it almost certainly will do, in some form)
[22:47] <ali1234> call/be called by
[22:47] <cliftonts> Let me call up my install and see where my nose takes me
[22:47] <ali1234> just start reading it
[22:47] <ali1234> eventually it will fall into place
[22:48] <ali1234> first look at the database abstraction, if there is one
[22:48] <ali1234> and then search for where it's called from
[22:48] <ali1234> find the query that does a string search on products, or the function that builds it
[22:48] <cliftonts> there's a search plugin somewhere
[22:48] <ali1234> grep -R is incredibly useful for this
[22:49] <ali1234> find a function that looks like it does what you want, then search for the functions it calls, and drill down that way
[22:49] <ali1234> you'll need to hop between files a lot
[22:49] <cliftonts> public_html/includes/modules/sideboxes/search.php
[22:49] <ali1234> you can't just try to understand it as whole files
[22:49] <ali1234> ok that sounds like a good way in
[22:49] <AlanBell> so that header_php.php does the searching (there is SQL code in it) and there is stuff around it to display it with all the theming
[22:50] <ali1234> ugh
[22:50] <ali1234> so no MVC abstraction... ok
[22:50] <cliftonts> well that was useless
[22:50] <AlanBell> not that the search usese
[22:50] <cliftonts> don't bother looking in search.php
[22:50] <ali1234> what's in it?
[22:51] <cliftonts> about 3 lines of code
[22:51] <ali1234> also http://www.zen-cart.com/wiki/index.php/Developers_API
[22:51] <cliftonts> none of which look useful, I'm guessing it passes the search phrase onto the search function
[22:52] <ali1234> yes
[22:52] <ali1234> that's good
[22:52] <ali1234> so look at where it passes it to, then search for that
[22:53] <cliftonts> and now my internet has frozen again
[22:53] <cliftonts> hang on, there's a whole directory dedicated to search
[22:53] <cliftonts> public_html/modules/Search
[22:54] <cliftonts> what do you suppose this is?
[22:54] <cliftonts> /Pretty Urls Compatibility
[22:56] <cliftonts> I literally can't follow these files at all. I've never seen anything quite like it. But this filename looks like a bullseye
[22:56] <cliftonts> public_html/modules/Search/action.dosearch.php
[22:56] <ali1234> sounds likely
[22:58] <cliftonts> http://pastebin.com/e6cJdNi8
[22:59] <ali1234> http://www.magneticone.com/store/Zen.Cart.Modules/Zen.Cart.Data.Feeds
[22:59] <ali1234> what you need is a paid addon
[22:59] <cliftonts> Ok, I'm following a few scraps querying the database but it'll give me a headach for sure!
[22:59] <cliftonts> Right, I live on £52 a week, it doesn't cut it already without spending more!
[23:02] <ali1234> you have to wonder if it is worth it
[23:02] <cliftonts> meaning what?
[23:02] <ali1234> who do you expect to install a lens for a shop they've never heard of? do you have reason to believe anybody would?
[23:02] <ali1234> honest question, not being funny
[23:02] <ali1234> your time is not free
[23:03] <cliftonts> not particularly but there are other reasons to do this
[23:03] <ali1234> do you expect to earn enough additional revenue from doing this, to make it worthwhile?
[23:03] <AlanBell> very true for one store, but in the abstract, this seems interesting to me
[23:03] <cliftonts> not the least of which being the fact that one Alan Bell was cruel enough to put the idea in my head in the first place
[23:03] <ali1234> yes, but in the abstract, you can just wait for someone who knows what they are doing to do it for you :)
[23:03] <cliftonts> which means I can no longer rest until I know how to do it!
[23:03] <AlanBell> getting zen and lenses to work together seems useful
[23:04] <ali1234> zencart *is* popular
[23:04] <cliftonts> ali1234 if we all thought like that we'll all be dull and dim
[23:04] <ali1234> if everyone thought like me we wouldn't be in a recession right now
[23:04] <ali1234> swings and roundabouts
[23:04] <cliftonts> and I don't like having to admit that I don't know how to do this
[23:05] <cliftonts> don't you think the learning experience here might be of benefit in the future?
[23:05] <ali1234> you should probably pick an easier project to learn
[23:05] <ali1234> zencart code looks like a mess from what you've both said
[23:05] <ali1234> *sounds
[23:05] <cliftonts> well you can see for yourself from the pastebin above
[23:06] <cliftonts> ah, here's a man who knows everything
[23:06] <cliftonts> evening popey
[23:06] <ali1234> no comments, no classes, no abstraction... yeah, looks like a nightmare
[23:06] <ali1234> oh wait that whole thing is a class
[23:06] <ali1234> hmm
[23:06] <popey> pip pip!
[23:07] <ali1234> grep the source for SearchItemCollection and see how it's supposed to be used
[23:07] <cliftonts> erm...I think I've got a local copy somewhere
[23:07] <ali1234> my guess, it gets returned from a factory function somewhere
[23:07] <cliftonts> you know what we really need in ubuntu?
[23:08] <ali1234> better leadership?
[23:08] <cliftonts> a right click 'open terminal here' in nautilus
[23:08] <ali1234> we used to have that
[23:08] <ali1234> it got removed
[23:08] <ali1234> like everything good
[23:08] <ali1234> :(
[23:09] <cliftonts> I don't remember ever seeing that, what version last had it?
[23:09] <ali1234> tip: you can do the reverse. open terminal, cd to directory, xdg-open .
[23:09] <ali1234> this opens a nautilus on the current directory of the temrinal
[23:09] <cliftonts> great! so I can do all the easy stuff the hard way round
[23:09] <ali1234> i don't remember when it was removed... it was quite some time ago
[23:10] <cliftonts> I've been using since feisty
[23:10] <cliftonts> right, rather than have to refresh my senile memory can you tell an ex dos user how to grep a whole directory?
[23:11] <penguin42> grep -r
[23:11] <AlanBell> grep -rn "foo" *
[23:11] <cliftonts> it doesn't matter how often I look these things up it never sticks
[23:11] <penguin42> cliftonts: r for recursive
[23:11] <AlanBell> n for showing the line number and file name
[23:11] <ali1234> cliftonts: apt-get install nautilus-open-terminal
[23:11] <ali1234> \o/
[23:12] <cliftonts> got it
[23:12] <cliftonts> not got it
[23:12] <AlanBell> so the popup pages (like popup_search_help) have no theme and stuff around them
[23:12] <cliftonts> searchitemcollection returns nothing
[23:13] <cliftonts> I'm not even sure what that is
[23:13] <cliftonts> I'm not aware of having any popups on my page!
[23:13] <AlanBell> this is because their templates are defined in /includes/templates/template_default/popup_search_help
[23:13] <AlanBell> oh sure, it was just an unformatted page
[23:13] <cliftonts> got it, no themes
[23:13] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/zen/index.php?main_page=popup_search_help
[23:14] <AlanBell> that displays in a popup from the advanced search page
[23:14] <cliftonts> yeah that's the one
[23:14] <AlanBell> the point is it gets rendered raw
[23:14] <cliftonts> yes
[23:14] <ali1234> maybe nautilus never had that by default, i might be thinking of KDE
[23:15] <AlanBell> so I think the thing to do is copy the advanced_search_results directory and call it something else, then create a very plain template for it
[23:15] <AlanBell> but I am done for the night o/
[23:15] <cliftonts> but the advanced search page itself is themed
[23:16] <cliftonts> I need proper broadband, a bigger screen and someone to clear my diary I think
[23:16] <cliftonts> perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way
[23:16] <cliftonts> a forum post on zen cart's page requesting the info perhaps?
[23:17] <ali1234> they''ll just tell you to buy the feed plugin :)
[23:17] <ali1234> you could just ignore zencart ad hit the database direct
[23:17] <ali1234> though that may be risky
[23:18] <cliftonts> why would that be risky? If you're reading and not writing?
[23:18] <ali1234> because the database schema may change, even if the API stays the same
[23:18] <ali1234> since that's te purpose of an API
[23:18] <cliftonts> oh, and night Alan
[23:18] <ali1234> but... judging from the cludgey code, tat probably won't happen...
[23:18] <ali1234> i found a plugint hat might do what you need
[23:18] <cliftonts> even if it did wouldn't that just cause the lens to fail?
[23:19] <cliftonts> what's that then?
[23:19] <ali1234> http://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=319
[23:20] <ali1234> yes, it would just make the lens fail. presuably you don't want that
[23:21] <ali1234> hmm looks too complex
[23:21] <cliftonts> I just love the way that they document these things so well, usually by not bothering at all!
[23:22] <cliftonts> Well when you said it's risky the first thought that springs to mind is damage to the database. The lens failing is annoying, not catastrophic
[23:22] <ali1234> hmmmm
[23:22] <ali1234> http://www.zen-cart.com/wiki/index.php/Developers_-_XML
[23:22] <ali1234> what is this?
[23:22] <ali1234> it can generate xml feeds natively?
[23:22] <cliftonts> that looks like an unfinished document if you ask me
[23:23] <cliftonts> I don't know about generating feeds. I've never seen anything to suggest that
[23:24] <cliftonts> Oh and the google plugin you sent me is for 1.3.9 and below, so will probably break next week when we upgrade
[23:25] <cliftonts> and ironically requires the version of PHP we're waiting for before we upgrade
[23:27] <ali1234> yes, clearly it is
[23:27] <ali1234> and yes, it will
[23:27] <cliftonts> and it gets better
[23:27] <cliftonts> Convert your Zen Cart files and database to accept UTF-8 characters by following our UTF-8 conversion tutorial.
[23:27] <cliftonts> I don't like the idea of poking my database with a big stick
[23:28] <cliftonts> Maybe Alan was onto something with creating a non-themed duplicate of the search pages
[23:28] <ali1234> have you considered not using zencart?
[23:28] <ali1234> because this looks very bad
[23:28] <cliftonts> not really, I've put a lot of work into making this damn thing go
[23:28] <ali1234> i dunno what else you would use anyway
[23:29] <cliftonts> oscommerce
[23:29] <cliftonts> but then the end result looks poor by comparison
[23:30] <ali1234> hmm... friend of mine uses zencart actually
[23:30] <ali1234> let me ask him if he knows anything about this
[23:31] <cliftonts> ok, I never thought this would be easy. Essentially we've got 2 systems here I know nothing about. But I hope to be a bit more informed when I'm done
[23:31] <ali1234> you could start on the lens end first
[23:31] <ali1234> assume you'll have a reasonable API to get results
[23:32] <ali1234> look at the amazon shopping lens
[23:32] <cliftonts> I've got a lens prepared. Can't do any more with it until I've got results.
[23:32] <cliftonts> I suppose the amazon lens must be very similar
[23:32] <ali1234> yeah
[23:35] <cliftonts> I don't see it
[23:35] <cliftonts> I'm getting no results back at all for amazon
[23:36] <ali1234> are you o 12.10?
[23:36] <cliftonts> hey, the U1 music store lens must be the same thing
[23:36] <cliftonts> no
[23:36] <ali1234> very similar, yes
[23:36] <ali1234> amazon is new in 12.10
[23:36] <cliftonts> ok, what's the command to download source?
[23:36] <cliftonts> I've got 12.10 but I'd have to reboot and don't have an irc client in there
[23:40] <ali1234> er, source for 12.10 when you;re on 12.04?
[23:40] <ali1234> you'll have to go to launchpad and find it, and download manually
[23:41] <cliftonts> what about downloading the 12.04 u1 scope?
[23:41] <cliftonts> lens even]
[23:41] <cliftonts> got it I thinl
[23:41] <cliftonts> think
[23:44] <ali1234> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/unity-lens-shopping/unity-lens-shopping_6.8.0.orig.tar.gz
[23:45] <ali1234> the key difference being that amazon has a proper json api for this
[23:45] <cliftonts> I just downloaded it
[23:45] <ali1234> that's what you need to reimplement for zencart, then you can just tweak the shopping lens a bit
[23:46] <cliftonts> but we're most of the way there on several plugins by the looks of it
[23:46] <cliftonts> I would hope some might be tweaked
[23:50] <cliftonts> intriguingly there are no domain names including the word amazon within the code
[23:51] <cliftonts> how do you suppose it's linking back to their database?
[23:51] <penguin42> cliftonts: It indirects via a canonical server
[23:51] <penguin42> cliftonts: Partially as a privacy ism apparently - but I've not seen any details of how it's done
[23:51] <cliftonts> Of course. I knew that
[23:52] <cliftonts> and there it is, loads of entries
[23:53] <cliftonts> Well I'd say it's too late to start digging around in that tonight. It'll have to wait until it starts raining on Monday
[23:57] <cliftonts> oh and penguin42 from what I heard it routes the requests through canonical but fetches the images direct.
[23:58] <cliftonts> The end result being it wouldn't take amazon long to figure out who is who
[23:58] <penguin42> cliftonts: Well, at least it doesn't feed the search text to them