/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/20/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

len-dtholstein, just so you know. IN the case of upgrading from 12.04 to 12.10, the publishing meta will be missing and part of the photography meta will be missing. The user can add these with apt-get or synaptic.00:03
len-dtholstein, there are a few (one or two) apps that we have replaced with new ones that will still be there as well. But these are minor. task-manager has been replaced with system-monitor for example. The upgraded system would have both.00:05
holsteinlen-dt: cool... someone was upgrading earlier... i should get that on a wiki somwhere03:34
holsteinlen-dt: i think that works fine03:34
Len-nbholstein, Ja I saw that. I figured people should know what does and doesn't work. Basically the upgrade does every package already on your machine, so even extra software the user has added will be upgraded.03:36
holsteini still think a fresh install is the way to go03:37
Len-nbIf we add the two missing metas to the desktop meta, then those will be added as well and the upgrade will be as close to the new install as possible03:38
Len-nbI agree03:38
Len-nbbut some people....03:38
holsteinLen-nb: the release looks awesome though03:38
holsteini feel like upgrading to it!03:38
Len-nbGlad you like it.03:38
holsteini like playing with it on the big rig03:39
Len-nbIt isn't that much different from 12.04 more polish.03:39
holsteini think i actually will take the time to clean up and move things around and install it on the studio rig03:39
holsteintry and keep it that way, so i'll not feel like i cant install 13.x03:40
holsteinits gotta be easy, or i get comfortable/lazy03:40
Len-nbWe have almost (with the sw available) done as much for audio as we can. I would like to se us do the same for the other workflows03:40
holsteinand, TBH, for me, theres really nothing new in 12.10 that i need over 10.0403:41
holsteinardour is the same... the plugins i use...03:41
holsteinLen-nb: we need some graphics and video folks03:41
Len-nbYes! but we need a platform that interests them first03:42
Len-nbThen they might show up and tweak it03:42
holsteintrue03:42
holsteinLen-nb: i like how the pulse JACK sink just works out of the box03:42
holsteini'll want to know how to get rid of it.. but it works great03:43
Len-nbI wish pulse was done a bit better.03:43
Len-nbI think that when jackd starts, pulse should auto move any streams that go to the device jack uses to jack03:43
holsteinthat would be great03:44
Len-nbin fact pulse should use the same name and setup03:44
Len-nbso in my case it should remain stereo instead of suround03:44
Len-nbI actually set pulse not to auto connect. The bridge is there but I have a jack session that just connects two channels03:45
Len-nbThe two bridging modules do have a parameter for number of channels, but03:46
Len-nbthey can't be set when auto loaded03:46
Len-nbI need to put together a proposal to set as a wish list item to drop on the pulse devs03:47
Len-nb:)03:48
holsteincool... i know falk has had a hard time working with them03:48
Len-nbHe is not the only one03:48
Len-nbI would word it in such a way as to make it seem favourable to them rather than jack...03:49
Len-nbBut not hold my breath either03:49
Len-nb2015 I might try hacking it if the problem is still there... or anything else for that matter.03:51
Len-nbA lot can happen in a few years03:51
holsteinyup03:51
holsteinmight be using pulse at a resonable latency by then... or whatever its replacement might be03:51
Len-nbBut I should have time for more stuff then03:51
Len-nbjackd 3 might have showed up03:51
Len-nbardour 4 might be beta03:52
Len-nbboth might be history too03:52
holsteinnever know... i dont think ardour is going anywhere03:54
Len-nbNo but it depends on jackd and alsa03:55
Len-nbI remember using oss and being surprised how fast alsa took over03:56
Len-nbfor all my computer work I am still an acoustic (mostly... and getting more so) musician03:59
Len-nbI record sounds with the computer because it sounds better than tape (and is cheaper too)04:01
Len-nbI have no thought of "making" music with a computer. That is why things like LMMS are foreign to me holstein 04:02
holsteinyeah... me too04:02
Len-nbAnyway, soon as the new seeds are out and we are getting daily builds again, I will tuck LMMS in there and see if it still builds and what it does with it04:07
Len-nbthough our friend who liked it so much has moved on to qtracktor04:08
ailoOne would almost want to jump in and start developing some of those applications to include the things one thinks they are missing08:26
ailoOn graphics and photography related workflows, we should really communicate with the ubuntu-art team09:07
ailoProbably there's people there who do video too09:07
drupinailo: where can i download and how the testing10:22
astraljavadrupin: What is it that you want to test?12:15
ailowhoa, I thought there was an IRC echo12:51
ailoUntil I notices, this time I didn't answer the question12:51
ailodrupin: Are asking where to download the latest Ubuntu Studio? http://ubuntustudio.org/download/12:52
ailodrupin: There's no testing going on at the moment12:54
ailodrupin: You're welcome to help with testing during the next development cycle, but it will be a while before there's a new ISO out12:55
drupinsmary boy told me lat thet it will be on 1113:12
drupinsmartboy13:12
drupinsmartboy told me that it will be on 11 oct13:12
ailodrupin: Well, it's 20th Oct now. Ubuntu 12.10 was release a couple of days ago13:28
drupinok13:31
smartboyhwDuh what is this guy about? Marketing..... We already not have enough human resources! ...14:47
smartboyhwWhat do you think about this? http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=12306387&postcount=5014:50
holsteinailo: you think the art team uses mac's?15:50
holsteinive had quite a few messages back and forth with Jono Bacon about using US for his audio production15:51
ailoholstein: No idea. But, in any case, they should be the experts on graphic workflows17:10
ailoI just saw a mail about one guy wanting to join who is a photographer17:10
ailoTo get a good idea of video workflows, someone would need to research about it, and find some group/channel and bug them for info17:12
ailoI think ubuntu-art aught be the ultimate group for asking about graphics17:12
ailoActually, why not start with their wiki pages https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation17:16
ailoLen-nb: ^17:16
ailoSeems to have some useful info17:16
len-dtailo,  I am not sure where you are going with that. It seems to be about making art for a distro. I thought we were talking about making our graphics section work for artists.17:19
len-dtThat does not mean there are not similarities...17:19
len-dtI guess I have never really thought about what artists we are aiming for.17:20
len-dtI had not thought of creating artwork for a distro before... blind spot. But then graphics in general is for me.17:21
len-dtI am realizing (as I told holstein ) that my interests are quite specialized17:22
ailolen-dt: I'm merely stating that the people in ubuntu-art are more or less expert artists, most likely using Ubuntu for art, so they would be the people to ask about which tools should be included by default, and what their workflows are like17:23
len-dtJa, I realize that.17:23
len-dtAnd as I said it is a valid use of an art distro too17:24
ailoI'm not putting any focus on the art for Ubuntu, or a distro. Just art and artists in general, using Ubuntu for making graphics17:25
* len-dt is still just thinking a little more widely than art is some kind of image17:25
ailoOk, let me say again. The point has nothing to do with the object of what ubuntu-art is doing, but that the people there are experts on graphic applications17:26
ailoNot only for ubuntu-art, but in general17:26
len-dtYes I got that17:26
len-dtWhat I am saying is that I am an idiot when it comes to art17:27
ailoI don't think there is anyone here who is much above that classification, when it comes to graphics17:27
len-dtI am just starting to think beyond ya that too.17:27
len-dtThe first thing that occurs  to me is that does the type of desktop matter to an artist?17:28
ailoProbably, like for anyone else, it's a matter of personal preference, regarding the desktop. But, the choice of applications, resources, command line tools, etc, etc17:29
len-dtThese are people who are more visually stimulated than I might be. I want a desktop that functions without any extra wierdness17:29
ailoAnd what are typical workflows like? You have files, and you have applications. And then there is some kind of process from start to finish17:30
len-dtAnyway, yes it would help to define what should be in the graphics meta better.17:30
* len-dt sometimes forgets we also offer a set of metas17:34
len-dtailo, are there any ppas (like kzstudio for example) that deals with graphics apps?17:35
ailolen-dt: Not something I've ever investigated. Googling seems to only reveal PPA's with artwork in them17:41
ailoIf I would want to know more about it, I would just head over to ubuntu-art and introduce myself17:41
ailoBut, I'm not about to do that atm, anyway17:41
len-dtJa, I am thinking no more than ideas right now. I am not sure who will do the blue print this time... our leader doesn't seem to be here.17:43
len-dthmm, "Surpass Apple in the quality of the user experience."??17:45
len-dtInteresting I guess I will need to get a mac so I know what Ubuntu is aiming for :)17:46
* len-dt thinks being able to afford the computer in the first place is part of his user experience18:03
astraljavaWell, yes. It helps becoming a user.18:10
len-dtastraljava, I think user experience is very closely linked to what the user is used to.18:11
len-dtfor me either mac or win (or unity or the new gnome for that matter) I have to learn it ffirst.18:13
astraljavaSure, but there's the first experience, and then the more accustomed user's regular usage.18:18
ailolen-dt: holstein: astraljava: Perhaps we should have a meeting about the coming cycle? atm, I don't feel there is anything that needs special attention - even if we changed nothing, but just adressed bugs, the next release would be as good as this one. We should at least see who is going to be commited for the next cycle18:23
ailoThere are things cooking, that just need to be ironed out18:24
len-dtailo, ja18:24
ailoastraljava: How is your schedule looking the next 6 months?18:25
len-dtailo, I will have somewhat less time than I had in the summer.18:25
astraljavaailo: I'll probably not commit to anything in advance. I may fix bugs, roll a package or three, code something new, but I cannot set anything in stone.18:29
ailoWell, we'll need to put together some blueprints at least. I don't think it's important to have a definite deadline on many of things we want to do.18:30
ailoWe should talk to Scott about if he wants to take the lead this cycle. If not, we should take over his duties until he's ready to come back18:31
len-dtI would still like to see us have our own icons for anything unique to US like the menu directory files18:32
len-dtI thought we had some people interested... but seems to have vanished. I do have three we can look at.18:33
ailolen-dt: We should draft the blueprints somehwere. Either the wiki, or the mail list18:34
len-dtmail list will get Scott's attention better than a wiki18:34
ailoOn the mail list, we could get more people giving ideas - more discussion18:34
len-dtThat too18:34
ailoOk, so if we start a thread, we just add suggestions for next cycle. Then make a blueprint out of it. I don't think it matters if all items in a blueprint are ever finished. Important thing is we have a list of things. I know what I want to do, and I expect it's like that for all of us18:36
len-dtI had sort of been doing that. Not sure how much people had seen18:37
ailolen-dt: Which thread was that?18:38
len-dt Thoughts on 12.1018:38
len-dtSome things are taken care of already18:38
len-dtI think there may have been another message somewhere too.18:39
len-dtWe can start another thread. Fresh18:41
ailoYea, we need a suitable title, so people keep to the subject18:42
ailoBrainstorming for 13.04, or something like that18:42
len-dtAre there any postponed items from 12.10 BP we want to carry forward?18:43
ailoThere are lot's of them18:43
ailoBut, I think we should clean the old ones up a bit. 18:44
len-dtI wouldn't say all...18:44
len-dtIs the same catagory breakdown ok?18:47
len-dtor is it best to figure out the items first?18:47
ailoI think we can just bring up more items first, and then do the categorization.18:49
len-dtJust reading more of the artworks stuff: "Make widgets look like they could be touched and it would feel good. "18:49
ailohmm :)18:50
astraljavaHah. :)18:52
astraljavaBut yeah, wouldn't it be great, to have a virtual mixer board on two 24" wide touch screens?18:53
len-dtOr here's one: "Especially the wallpaper, as it is expected to be a new one for each release."18:53
astraljavaHehehe. Where do you get this stuff?18:53
len-dtThe link ailo gave above or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Message18:54
len-dtDated 200918:54
len-dtI was thinking one of those artists tablets would make a good mix board too.18:55
astraljavaAhh... ok, but then that's not Studio-specific.18:55
len-dtastraljava, no ubuntu specific, but we are expected to have similar goals18:55
len-dtThey are not bad goals, they leave a lot of room for interpretation... which is good.18:56
astraljavaTrue, true.18:57
len-dtActually this is stuff I wish I had seen before I started helping with development as it would have helped me focus more correctly18:58
astraljavaBetter late than never, if you still intend to do dev stuff, that is. :)19:01
astraljavaWhoa, managed to avoid typos, whilst staring at the telly the whole time. :)19:01
len-dtI got some of it already... I was wondering why eveyone so up on OOTB for a while...19:02
* len-dt makes typos just because...19:02
astraljava"up on out-of-the-box?" What's that?19:04
len-dtas in working OOTB19:05
len-dtThere have been a lot of things I have found I need to do after OOTB before my system(s) work well for audio19:05
astraljavaRight, yeah if something could be done about that.19:14
ailoI think this category should be discarded in the next blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-q-future19:16
ailoThe items there belong to other categories19:16
ailoJust noting19:16
len-dtI agree. None of them will get finished anyway.19:17
ailoI'm writing a post about blueprints for next cycle. I'm doing some kind of intro, but mostly to inform non team members19:21
ailok, posted19:29
len-dtWow.19:30
len-dtI think those are good. I think for blue prints some of them should be broken into smaller chunks so we can use DONE more often even for partly completed things.19:31
len-dtBut for discussion they are good19:32
len-dtThis past cycle we did a lot of work that doesn't show in the BP because it wasn't "DONE"19:33
len-dtThe PTB would probably like to see those accomplishments as well.19:34
len-dtanother reason for breaking down more is that it gives new helpers/devs more of a feeling that "I can do that much".19:35
ailoWell, all of that already does exist in one way or another in the blue prints. Aside form the -controls and the panel apps19:35
ailoWould be good to clean up the blueprints a bit though. Also, I think if people catch on, and want to help, either there is someone in charge of a category, or they become in charge of that category19:37
ailoI mean, say documentation. I'm the lead, so I do the organizing. 19:37
ailoDoesn't mean I decide everything. Just that I'm the secretary, so to speak19:38
ailoIf someone wants to help, I can point them to a task19:38
ailoIf no one is the lead of something, they have to organize it themselves19:39
ailohungry evil. Time to feed the monster19:41
len-dtYa I understood that, just that if a part of a document is listed as a separate item it can be called done even if the whole document isn't19:43
len-dtSo even if it starts as one document, say the video workflow, but someone does just a short part on getting video into the machine... just one step19:44
len-dtwe could make that a new blue print item that can be called done. This way we can keep track of parts of things that get done without waiting for the whole.19:45
len-dtI don't know how flexible the BP system is. If it can have more layers than two for example.19:46
len-dtIf not we can use keywords for the same thing.19:49
ailolen-dt: We can add sub-categories, if we want. Like: user-doc:audio20:09
ailoIf needed20:09
ailoBut, I wouldn't get too particular with that20:09
ailoThe important thing is whoever is wanting to do something, knows what to do20:10
len-dtk20:18
ailoI sent an email to Scott about next cycle btw20:32
ailoJust asking him what his plans are20:32

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