[00:00] jbicha, yes, I know it now [00:00] jbicha: i just dug into dconf editor... apparently we are still dragging some unity keys around [00:01] I see guys running like Fedora 13 and I'm thinking man, you can't do that, with only 13 months max support you can only skip 1 release and then you *have* to upgrade [00:01] jbicha: indeed [00:01] well, now my customers are using only LTS [00:02] and to be honest, I have only 3 customers, not too much [00:02] but at least you don't need to wait for shuttleworth to stop scratching his ass to get a new driver *quickly* [00:02] gnome: sure, several apps depend on libunity for Unity launcher integration [00:02] jbicha, when 13.04 development starts? [00:02] everaldo: 13.04 should open some time next week [00:03] jbicha: in this case its a lens... not sure we need it [00:03] but you can start filing blueprints or opening bugs or starting mailing list discussions now [00:03] go look into com.canonical.Unity.Lenses [00:04] jbicha, do you think we can change our default package set for next cycle? [00:04] other wise, jbicha my friend: awesome job! thanks for bringing gnome back to us and in its rightful manner [00:05] everaldo: package set?? [00:05] gnome: yeah, that's included with libunity9 bug 1055019 [00:05] Launchpad bug 1055019 in libunity (Ubuntu) "libunity9 should depend on unity-common" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055019 [00:06] everaldo: yeah we can make adjustments [00:06] jbicha: cool, so it's gone soon or in the next cycle i suppose :) [00:06] gnome, yes, as package set I mean "packages that comes installed by default" [00:07] oh ok. :) [00:07] you guys can have a look at fedora - its vanilla gnome to the best [00:07] jbicha, btw, people are just impressed, they really love UGR [00:07] everaldo: yes, we can change our meta package [00:08] gnome, I always look at fedora ;-) [00:08] gnome: rawhide's scary though [00:08] very [00:08] as of now yes bc 18 is already branched [00:09] that are we going full gnome next cycle? no more canonical mods i mean... [00:10] jbicha ^^ [00:11] I just start to hack on gnome control center, hope to have all features and kill gnome-tweak-tool [00:11] also, just hope it can be integrated on oficial gnome control center [00:12] tweak tooll you mean? dump the app and have it as a module? [00:12] tool* [00:13] everaldo: it's quite unlikely that GNOME designers will take those additions to System Settings, they have been included in Tweak Tool for a reason [00:13] jbicha: good point [00:13] yes, they wont people make settings [00:13] though it does end up being a system related settings list [00:13] unfortunately, events are conspiring (on Ubuntu and GNOME's side) which will likely mean that we'll be stuck with GNOME Shell 3.6 for 13.04 [00:13] btw, it comes from this "icon designers" from redhat :( [00:14] oh!!! [00:14] :( [00:14] gnome: System Settings will be cleaner for 13.04 but it's too early to say whether it will be 100% GNOME or not [00:14] jbicha: fedora usually runs the same main version for a couple cycles before rolling to the new one [00:15] jbicha: why not build it from source and have our own packages that are called throught the meta-pack [00:15] through* [00:15] jbicha, the reason why we have a gnome-tweak-tool is that was started by a different person than don't know C programing and it is not possible to instegrate python modules in gnom-control-center [00:15] gnome: that gets quite complicated for dependency-handling; we likely wouldn't really be part of Ubuntu if we did that [00:16] true.. forgot about that one [00:17] everaldo: I'm not so sure that John doesn't know some C; I think he just prefers Python [00:17] gnome: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbicha/germinate-output/desktop [00:18] there's several similar files in that directory; that kind of gives an expansion of what we have in our metapackage and what's pulling it in [00:18] thanks [00:19] question: are the ubuntu applets bound by unity? [00:21] jbicha, are we restrict to be very GNOME upstream or we are free to have some steroids for UGR ? [00:21] everaldo: no steroids please! i think the point of this was to have gnome to its purest, no? jbicha [00:21] everaldo: for the sake of fighting with Ubuntu and GNOME I think we need to stay mostly vanilla [00:22] we don't want Ubuntu to say "but you're not shipping pure GNOME anyway so what does it matter?" [00:22] humm [00:22] exactly! [00:23] not too much happy with that, 18 months ago I start to disagree with some GNOME things [00:23] quite honestly ( this how i do it..) i end up dumping all customizations anyway [00:23] it gets pretty annoying at times being in the middle but that's why I'm here - to try to bridge the gap [00:23] i used to do it on ubuntu till i got fed up and moved out [00:24] jbicha: we arent bound to libreoffice if we go official are we? [00:24] by patching over GNOME's mis-designs, we're encouraging users not to complain to GNOME but to blame us for all the decisions [00:24] ^^THIS! [00:25] gnome: we have basically 100% ability to choose what packages we ship; Kubuntu has never shipped Ubuntu One for instance [00:25] jbicha, well, you are right, I don't like it but you are right :( [00:25] jbicha: if i must request one thing, please oh please! do not put libreoffice on it [00:25] everaldo: Suse or Mageia have more flexibility to patch over stuff [00:26] gnome: that's a 50/50 decision as GNOME doesn't actually have a default office suite [00:26] that wouldnt stop anyone from installing it aftwerwards anyway [00:26] removing it, on the other hand 'dirties' the install [00:27] well eventually LibreOffice will have a simpler UI that's easier to use [00:27] eventually.... [00:27] in a long long long long time [00:28] the framework has taken ages to update - heck, theyre still on it [00:28] I'm considering dropping Evolution by default though as it's not core GNOME but just an app [00:28] what would be the replacement [00:28] fedora uses it... [00:28] jbicha, I use openSUSE for years when working on Novell and people there are really hard to convince anything IMHO [00:28] here's the definitions of what's core and what's not http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets [00:29] gnome: I think a majority uses webmail, others prefer Evolution or Thunderbird or mutt or something [00:30] id back the webmail statement. thats all i use [00:30] jbicha, anyway, I know that we can't patch any GNOME but we can install packages that get us more features right? [00:30] I think it added 10MB or so to our image because I accidently left it out of the Alpha [00:30] and thank you for getting rid of mozilla too [00:31] Web 3.8 will be getting the new pages tab-replacement [00:31] it's ok because epiphany's tabs are pretty awful if you have more than about 7 open [00:31] if anything... id vote for keeping it streamlined and simple. people can overhaul it after install [00:31] so it actually doesn't make their tab handling any worse, it can only get better :) [00:32] i meant 'web mail' as in browser + gmail [00:33] mmm question: does ndisgtk handle ethernet drivers too? not just wifi [00:34] everaldo: sure, we installed deja dup, gwibber, and transmission this time and they aren't strictly GNOME [00:34] well.. they are considered essentials jbicha [00:35] and they work very well too [00:35] well, looks like I can play a little, theres some "window" for customization ;-) [00:36] just please, keep it simple and low memory. think about it. with this now, we can actually take advantage of the mobile built-ins for eventul ports for tablets and stuff [00:36] ubuntu is the #1 choice [00:37] eventual* [00:37] unity is just awful for that [00:37] everaldo: I think we may change the wallpaper too but I'd like to keep it conservative and looking like GNOME, I really liked Fedora 15's lovelock wallpaper [00:38] jbicha: why not do what i spoke about in the forums [00:38] gnome: ? [00:38] the plymouth ubuntu logo on gnome-blue solid background [00:39] it would also unify the transitioning from plymouth to gdm to shell [00:39] if you make it the same for all three [00:39] gnome, the gdm starts with blue strips, that is why we made an animation of blue strips [00:40] this version? [00:40] gnome: feel free to send a proposal to the mailing list, screenshots or mockups are useful [00:40] will do [00:40] but basically let me explain: [00:41] default ubuntu uses plymouth as ubuntu logo on aubergine, right? [00:41] we may switch to something like https://live.gnome.org/GnomeOS/Design/Whiteboards/Boot though [00:41] OOOOOh even better [00:42] GDM 3.6 briefly flashes the default wallpaper on the screen which is why we used the default wallpaper instead for 12.10 [00:42] true that. good point [00:42] jbicha, that is my first theme ;-) [00:42] so seamless was in your mind then [00:42] :) [00:42] everaldo: yes I remember :) they may change that behavior in gdm 3.8 though [00:43] so basically plymouth would be using gdm's underlying background image [00:43] yes? [00:44] jbicha" ^^ [00:44] from boot up to log in should feel fairly smooth yes [00:45] cool - added to ubuntu's silent grub settings, this will be pure win [00:48] jbicha: ubuntuone claims to be installed, i do not see it anywhere... [00:50] jbicha, looks like we have some efi problems that will require rebuild the iso [00:50] jbicha, is there any chance that it happens? [00:51] what is the efi issue? [00:51] i run efi [00:51] a missing file on casper folder [00:51] which? [00:52] will that pose a problem if i attempt an efi install? [00:53] error: file `/casper/vmlinuz.efi.signed` not found [00:53] gnome, yes, it will [00:54] oh. when are you rebuilding then? [00:55] gnome: ubuntuone is not installed, just pieces of it [00:55] I don't know if we can rebuild and also I don't know from where this file comes from on Ubuntu [00:55] jbicha, we can rebuild if needed? [00:56] ubuntuone-client-gnome for install? [01:16] back! [01:18] nathaneltitane, fedora ah? [01:19] indeed [01:19] :-) [01:20] gonna install into gnome boxes to test out all the final stuff before formating [01:21] nathaneltitane, let us know if you have any issues [01:23] will do. i plan on sticking around with you guys. i cant code but i sure as hell can test the living crap out of software :) [01:23] :) [01:24] everaldo: linux-signed is what has that .signed file, interestingly it's amd64 only [01:25] jbicha, probably because EFI is 64bit only right? [01:25] I'd prefer an actual bug report, is it just that efi users have trouble after installing? in that case, we could just release note it [01:25] YEP [01:25] i might assume we'd have trouble *WHILE* installing [01:26] where was it in the image again? [01:26] jbicha, ok, I will fill a bug report after dinner [01:26] ah, a friend here just copy the file to usb stick from ubuntu to ubuntu-gnome-remix and it works [01:26] or we could just spin a 12.10.1 image for amd64 only [01:28] where was the file located jbicha [01:28] ill copy it for install until you guys respin [01:28] tell the friend to install linux-signed-generic so that upgrades work [01:28] nathaneltitane, casper folder [01:28] I have to figure out the correct way to respin first [01:28] k [01:29] my point exactly.. until you do [01:29] :) [01:29] jbicha, he cant install it, it is on installation [01:29] I guess we just need to install that and things should work [01:30] jbicha, when you enter a live session just receive this message [01:30] after installed everthing works fine, just need to copy this file to the casper folder [01:32] everaldo: if install completes, then he can just chroot in and install that package [01:34] well, it is working and not installed anything after complete installation [01:35] everaldo: would you like to regenerate the iso to test if it works https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/iso-build-script [01:36] I'll rebuild and re-release after I get it uploaded (it might not happen until Monday) [01:36] but there's no use releasing until it's verified that the problem is fixed [01:37] jbicha, I will rebuild iso here and test on mac and efi capable pc, after tests then email you [01:38] everaldo: sure, thanks! [01:39] * everaldo searching for a good excuse to not go sushi with his wife [01:42] lol [01:42] sushi is good [01:42] y not go [01:43] it is cold today [01:43] how cold? [01:43] cold [01:43] too cold [01:43] 17o C [01:44] well, cold for a brazilian guys that is always on 38~35 C [01:44] :) [01:44] 12C here but windy and rainy as hell [01:44] nathaneltitane, where? [01:44] montreal [01:45] 12C for me is like a cold hell [01:45] try -40 :) [01:46] no, thanks :) [01:47] joined the team on launchpad [01:51] boxes is awesome [01:51] we seriously need it for the next release [01:52] nathaneltitane, what is uses? kvm? [01:52] qemu it seems [01:52] nathaneltitane: at the moment it's amd64 only on Ubuntu, it requires hw virtualization so it's not necessarily a very good choice [01:52] oh [01:52] as default at least [01:53] is it available throught the gnome3 ppa? [01:53] through** [01:53] nathaneltitane: it's in the regular Ubuntu archives https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-boxes [01:53] spins are arch dependant anyway, why not include it on 64 [01:54] wanna keep it uniform i suppose throughout the build? [01:55] nathaneltitane: personally I haven't found it to be that great yet; it was broken during much of the quantal cycle and I only recently got access to a computer w/ hw virtualization [01:55] seems to run flawless right now for me [01:55] and im on an alpha btw [01:56] right, the Boxes devs use Fedora I believe; they definitely don't use Ubuntu [01:56] lol [01:57] still pretty powerful [01:57] out of the box virtualization is very cool [01:58] nathaneltitane, better than VirtualBox? [01:58] so far it seems [01:58] no module config or build [01:58] click, load, install, boom [01:59] will try it [01:59] detects iso through home paths and even enables URIs [01:59] nathaneltitane: I think the real issue is that you're used to VirtualBox being broken, it usually works pretty well on Ubuntu :) [02:00] oh no. i sure as hell know how to make it work, but i rather not spend time configuring it [02:00] :) [02:00] nathaneltitane: right, it needs 0 configuration on Ubuntu (at least up until 12.04) [02:00] the OSE one [02:00] the Debian maintainer does a good job [02:00] im talking about the prop version [02:01] nathaneltitane, looks like it uses vnc? is that right? [02:01] nathaneltitane: but you don't need that, just add the proprietary extension pack [02:01] https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads [02:01] mhm [02:01] good to know [02:01] seems like it everaldo [02:02] everaldo: it uses qemu & spice, I don't know about vnc [02:03] vnc is for the remote machines [02:04] just looking at code [02:05] and looks like it opens a vnc session to vm [02:05] not sure if does it always [02:05] nathaneltitane, do you have any windows vm ? [02:05] no [02:05] i have a dedicated windows machine for work [02:05] im an industrial designer [02:06] so i cant do without adobe and autocad and solidworks [02:06] ah, ok [02:06] and the only reason i use wine is for MLCAD since i run linux 98% of the time at home [02:06] * everaldo loves how vala code looks [02:07] often heard about vala [02:07] is it that great? [02:07] well, the syntax is more clean than glib/gtk/c stuff [02:07] hmm [02:08] and you don't need the .h files, it all on .vala code [02:08] cool [02:08] and looks like C#/Java [02:08] but it compiles the .vala in .c/.h and then compile to native code [02:08] so, don't loose any performance compared to C code [02:09] thats why. good to know [02:12] is there any ppa for gnome-boxes? [02:14] everaldo: he said its in the ubuntu archives [02:15] or i guess you can just add the ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3 [02:16] * everaldo installing gnome-boxes (it is on official archives) [02:16] cool [02:16] * nathaneltitane [02:18] nathaneltitane, just working here [02:18] meaning [02:18] ? [02:18] even gnome-shell works perfect [02:18] I like it [02:19] es [02:19] yes [02:19] i've always had faith in the gnome team [02:19] they do awesome work [02:19] theres only one thing that I did not like [02:19] which is [02:19] the black window title [02:20] like other gnome programs [02:20] theme you mean [02:20] yes [02:20] I do prefer the default theme [02:20] i kind of like it. it does help on the media focus for images and movies [02:20] *MY* theme is even cooler [02:21] where it store vms? [02:22] under ~/.local/share/gnome-boxes [02:23] brb. going back to live to install :) [04:02] jbicha, this is quite bizarre, how can policykit-1-gnome possibly be missing, when a number of core gnome things depend on it? [04:03] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1069104 [04:03] Ubuntu bug 1069104 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Gnome-shell broken since quantal upgrade" [Undecided,New] [04:08] crazy, it sounds like his system is probably fairly broken in that case [04:08] yeh both logs are quite contridactory as well [04:09] first one can't find polkit, but is trying to load compiz also [04:09] second log is failing to load polkit, since an agent is already active [04:11] some other guy compained about the second issue, in an unrelated bug report [04:12] well if gnome-shell fails, it would try to fallback to gnome classic which would include compiz if he started from Ubuntu 12.04 [04:13] no that wont happen now [04:14] fallback is decided by gnome-session right at the start [04:14] any critical error after that point will crash gnome-shell and stop there [04:14] (it will probably attempt to respawn though) [04:21] the only way to hit fallback now is to actually select the session from gdm/lightdm (unless llvmpipe happens to be broken) [04:28] everaldo: I was told that we might not need to respin, could you or him file the boot bug against grub2? [04:30] they haven't quite figured out what the problem is as there's only one other similar case of boot failing [04:30] *known case so far [04:31] is he running with secure boot? [04:39] lol, I imagine secure boot will produce more than its fair share of efi bugs! [04:40] over the next cycle, previously lots of boards were using hybrid modes, that emulate bios for boot, but wont be valid with secure boot [16:35] hello everybody [16:35] a few minutes ago I tried to install the 64 bit ubuntu gnome remix [16:36] but I got the following error: /casper/vmlinuz.efi.signed not found try booting the kernel first [16:37] do you have any suggestions what I could do to get this working? [16:38] arvicolinae: please file a bug against grub2 with as much information about your hardware as you can? [16:38] for instance, are you running with Secure Boot? [16:38] ok in the launchpad? [16:39] yes, you can run ubuntu-bug grub2 [16:39] I don't think so [16:40] the developers are quite interested in trying to figure out why grub is failing to boot unsigned kernels on some machines [16:40] ah ok [16:41] this issue occurs only with the stable release of the gnome remix [16:41] with the beta I had this strange nouveau problem [16:59] which information do I need to provide since I'm running Debian 64 bit at the moment? [20:04] jbicha, is this efi issue booting the installed system? or the iso? [20:41] hi all [20:43] @jbicha: The Ubuntu developers rejected my bug report because the gnome remix isn't an official ubuntu flavour [20:44] see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1069475 for further information [20:44] Ubuntu bug 1069475 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub fails to boot unsigned kernel" [Undecided,Invalid] [20:45] so who could help me? [20:55] arvicolinae, does it happen with the normal quantal images? [20:56] I didn't tested [20:56] but I found out that it doesn't happen with the beta version of gnome remix [20:59] arvicolinae, ok that is strange, can you try with normal ubuntu image [21:00] sure [21:10] see you in a few minutes ;) [21:13] jbicha, fwiw, I can't even get the ubuntu gnome images to boot at all in vmware efi mode (I don't even get as far as grub ;( ) [21:13] standard quantal release boots fine though [21:16] ok problem didn't occur with normal quantal daily built [21:16] are there daily builts for the gnome remix [21:16] ? [21:17] no, you have to build it yourself [21:17] https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/iso-build-script [21:18] grab that, and then run './livecd-script.sh customize amd64 quantal-desktop-amd64.iso' [21:20] ok thanks [21:21] do I have to download all the scripts? [21:23] yeh, just use 'bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/iso-build-script' [21:25] very nice system ;) [21:31] so this script builds the gnome remix from an normal quantal daily built? [21:31] very cool guys :D [21:33] yeh [21:33] and actually all the boot stuff is just copied of the normal quantal image. so it is strange this only occurs for our image [21:35] arvicolinae, also you should run 'livecd-script.iso clean amd64' each time before re-building image again [21:35] ok what does that do? [21:36] cleaning cache? [21:36] yeh just cleans up anything left over from the last build [21:37] if you dont do it, the image ends up twice the size [21:37] hahaha [21:37] ^^ [21:37] then I'll better run the command [21:38] how many developers are there for the gnome remix? [22:16] ok, thank you very much [22:17] I'll report tomorrow if I'm successful or not [22:17] good night [22:44] hello! [22:46] jbicha: attempted to copy the signed vmlinuz from a standard ubuntu 12.10 amd64 image and the live failed to boot up.. it hung with a blinking cursor. did everaldo's friend copy the whole casper directory or just the file? [22:47] nathaneltitane, do you get to grub menu? [22:47] not even [22:47] ok that is possibly a different issue [22:47] nathaneltitane, just the file [22:47] darkxst: i think you are aware of the missing file? [22:47] our image is missing efi boot entry [22:47] well that didnt work everaldo [22:47] nathaneltitane, I am right now checking this bug [22:48] i mounted the image with file roller and copied it right into the already 'burned' usb casper folder... nada [22:48] nathaneltitane, yeh but that happens after grub menu [22:48] well, leave me a mail so I can tell you after finish my tests here (everaldo.canuto@gmail.com) [22:48] it's the one on the launchpad [22:48] nathanel.titane@gmail.com [22:48] some efi bios can't read ISO9660 ;( [22:49] darkxst: i attempted the boot on an old machine first [22:49] otherwise guys, the build is flawless [22:49] it runs on my non efi desk like a boss [22:50] nathaneltitane, I will leave you a mail when finish my tests [22:50] i am so very happy about this. :) [22:50] no prob everaldo [22:50] nathaneltitane, if you go into efi shell, you will find that it can't read the cd [22:51] my laptop doesnt have a shell darkxst [22:51] it's a standard bios interface [22:51] which makes me beg to ask darkxst : my laptop does offer a boot from device shell [22:51] how can i get it to do that? [22:52] so your laptop which is bios, is failing to boot? then that is something different again [22:52] um no, it is efi, but no shell [22:53] and the attempt i am talking about was on the machine i am currently running on, standard bios [22:53] darkxst: my point is: if it is only bios, it shouldve just booted [22:53] efi will (should) have a shell [22:54] well, ubuntu and fedora refuse to boot live if i do not isohybrid the images to uefi capable boot [22:54] and i ran all the efivars tests and efibootmgr tests and it is indeed efi [22:54] darkxst: i read about the fact that some vendors dismiss the shell due to limited memory [22:55] ok [22:56] isohybrid doesnt do efi though [22:56] yes [22:56] isohybrid -u [22:56] i did it for fedora [22:56] did you try on our image? [22:56] not yet [22:57] and ubuntu is uefi capable by default [22:57] normally [22:57] nathaneltitane, but like I said we have not included the efi boot entry [22:57] bc i attempted with a default 12.06 image a montha ago and it booted, which led me to discover isohybrid and run it on the fedora image i wanted to load [22:57] OH [22:57] so it does need to be hybridized [22:58] 12.04** [22:58] let me try it now and get back to you [23:00] darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1296385/ [23:01] nathaneltitane, oh [23:01] try copy /boot/grub/efi.img [23:02] to isolinux/efiboot.img [23:02] inside the iso [23:04] what was that iso editing tool again? [23:05] iso master, is one [23:05] i think thats the one, thanks [23:07] everaldo, you have a machine that gets to grub and then fails? [23:10] darkxst: you sait to copy is as what again? sorry, had to log out, couldnt get a lock on apt [23:11] said* [23:11] darkxst, no, but I will have it in a couple of hours :) [23:11] just waiting for machine [23:12] try copy /boot/grub/efi.img [23:12] to isolinux/efiboot.img [23:13] everaldo, try adding the following to genisoimage command "-eltorito-alt-boot -e boot/grub/efi.img -no-emul-boot" at the end of the command but before the '.' [23:13] darkxst: still unable to find efi image [23:14] darkxst, ok, I will do it [23:14] nathaneltitane, do you have the iso build script? [23:15] nope [23:15] as in livecd-tools& [23:15] *? [23:15] no our build script for ubuntu gnome images' [23:16] nope [23:16] i guess ill just wait on the spin [23:17] well it will need testing before we release anything [23:17] im here for that :) [23:18] link it up when its ready [23:18] I just need to work out the correct commands to generate a proper efi image [23:19] no prob. - take your time [23:21] be back in a bit [23:22] darkxst, nathaneltitane, instead of send a mail directly to you guys, will just send to mail list [23:23] so we can handle [23:23] k [23:23] link me to the page plss [23:35] everaldo, oh an test without the -signed package