[00:06] <dogmatic69> anyone know how to use 'convert' to keep no background when doing svg -> png?
[00:56] <selinuxium> wondering of anyone was still up?
[00:58] <Darael> At least one.
[00:58] <selinuxium> Darael, Morning... :)
[00:59] <selinuxium> I am up late as my Quantal update hasn't gone smoothly...
[01:01] <Darael> Oh dear.
[01:01] <selinuxium> yup... fun  fun fun! :)
[04:52] <ali1234> barclaycard reasons why PDF statements are better than paper ones: "It's easy to get your hands on if you need to check it or prove your identity."
[04:52] <ali1234> so apparently anyone who can make PDFs can now steal my identity. great.
[04:53] <Azelphur> ali1234 all you need to steal someones identity usually is a bank statement xD
[04:53] <Azelphur> people keep on asking me for mine and I'm on paperless billing, getting fed up with it I'll probably gimp a bank statement at some point.
[04:53] <ali1234> previously that would mean breaking into my house
[04:54] <ali1234> they also claim it is password protected
[04:54] <ali1234> so how would i show it to anyone?
[04:55] <MartijnVdS> print screen
[05:17] <Azelphur> ali1234 just found this, figured it might interest you, http://hexgl.bkcore.com/
[05:18] <Azelphur> it's open source and on github, seems pretty awesome
[05:30] <ali1234> not bad for a browser game
[05:32] <ali1234> feels a bit clunky, that might be because of keyboard controls though
[05:32] <ali1234> the difficulty is much too high
[05:33] <Azelphur> not at all, I love the difficulty
[05:33] <Azelphur> finally a challenging game, without all this wishy washy crap
[05:33] <ali1234> lol
[05:33] <ali1234> it's not really challenging though
[05:33] <ali1234> you just have to drive slow
[05:33] <Azelphur> no you don't, use air brakes
[05:34] <ali1234> you still have to drive slow
[05:34] <Azelphur> air brakes arn't brakes btw
[05:34] <ali1234> i know
[05:34] <ali1234> they just make you go sideways really fast
[05:35] <ali1234> also, how can you say it's challenging when you can't fall off the track?
[05:35] <Azelphur> because you have durability, and to beat any of the records will be tought
[05:35] <Azelphur> tough*
[05:36] <ali1234> beat f-zero x big hand on ace difficulty, then talk to me about challenging :)
[05:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[06:55] <Knightwise> mooorrning
[07:00] <theopensourcerer> Morning earthlings
[07:01] <Knightwise> hey theopensourcerer
[07:01] <popey> pip pip
[07:01] <Knightwise> hey popey !
[07:01] <popey> yo
[07:01] <theopensourcerer> How's Denmark popey
[07:01] <theopensourcerer> ?
[07:04] <Knightwise> sudo apt-get install superpowers
[07:04] <Knightwise> package not found
[07:04] <popey> theopensourcerer, expensive
[07:04] <theopensourcerer> Gosh - already.
[07:05] <popey> arrived, went to the bar
[07:05] <theopensourcerer> What's a pint (or the equivalent) then?
[07:05] <popey> ~5GBP
[07:05] <theopensourcerer> (*&*%&^!!!
[07:05] <popey> carlsberg
[07:08] <Knightwise> i remember danish and swedish students visiting belgium
[07:09] <Knightwise> and paying one euro for a carlsberg
[07:09] <Knightwise> they thought they had died and gone to heaven
[07:31] <Knightwise> hmm.. lightread is no longer in the repositories ?
[07:31] <Knightwise> got an error on sudo apt-get install lightread
[07:36] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19976271 I knew I would be fashionable again one day
[07:37] <Knightwise> we shop in a store in Aachen from time to time that actually carries dirndles
[07:38] <popey> Knightwise, 12.04 or 12.10?
[07:38] <Knightwise> 12.10
[07:38] <Knightwise> couldn't find fogger either
[07:38] <popey> developer needs to update it to 12.10
[07:39] <Knightwise> aj
[07:39] <Knightwise> too bad :(  Loved lightread ! awesome awesome Rss reader
[07:39] <ali1234> is the humble bundle stuff updated yet?
[07:39] <Knightwise> soo well built it looks like a mac app
[07:40] <popey> the 12.04 package probably works on 12.10
[07:55] <diplo> Morning all
[07:55] <Knightwise> hey diplo
[07:59] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:26] <JamesTait> Goooooooood morning all! :)
[08:28] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:30] <SuperMatt> heyhey
[08:31] <SuperMatt> I hate this part in the ubuntu release cycle
[08:31] <SuperMatt> there's naff all news
[08:31] <czajkowski> give it a week
[08:32] <popey> :)
[08:34] <SuperMatt> ah yes, uds
[08:35] <popey> UDS hotel is nice
[08:35] <popey> if you like ikea
[08:35] <popey> rooms are tiny though.
[08:35] <popey> not that we spend long in them :)
[08:35] <SuperMatt> I'd love to go to a uds, but I'd have to learn to develop first
[08:37] <czajkowski> SuperMatt: narp! I'm not a developer and I go
[08:37] <czajkowski> popey: that must be a bit awkawrd for some of the larger folk!
[08:37] <popey> hah
[08:37] <popey> single beds
[08:38] <czajkowski> LOL  can just imagine the comments
[08:38] <SuperMatt> czajkowski: surely it costs a fair penny though?
[08:39] <czajkowski> SuperMatt: I've been rather fortunate to be sponsored in the past
[08:39] <czajkowski> which is open to anyone to apply
[08:39] <SuperMatt> nice
[08:39] <popey> in fact all the rooms are configured with two single beds pushed together :)
[08:39] <popey> czajkowski, seen the bathroom windows?
[08:39] <popey> like brussels
[08:39] <czajkowski> popey: how could I not not yesterday, anyone on my timeline there has been taking pics and posting :)
[08:39] <popey> haha
[08:40] <czajkowski> I think blokes are just a little bit more prudish and also more likely to take the piss of someone in there :)

[08:44] <czajkowski> slightly but tis kinda true of that bunch :)
[08:45] <popey> i dont think prudish is the right word
[08:45] <gord> ugh they have bathroom windows again? the hell
[08:45] <czajkowski> popey: maybe cant think of a more polite word for irc
[08:46] <AlanBell> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/285747_3881180870491_490360034_n.jpg for those lacking context
[08:46] <popey> we're all mostly kidding about
[08:47] <SuperMatt> DO NOT WANT
[08:48] <gord> the ones in brussells did not have any visual obstructions and for people on the ground floor, just faced the window people were walking next to outside. and went directly into the shower
[08:48] <popey> its more of a culture shock really, given a large number of people here are brits & americans, we generally never have this in our hotels
[08:48] <gord> i just... i don't understand the logic
[08:48] <popey> these have a door
[08:48] <diplo> They're like that in the hotel I stayed at in Sweden
[08:50] <Knightwise> looks like a star trek transporter
[08:50] <shauno> I stayed in a hotel in prague that had an all-glass-walled bathroom.  I felt a lot like a goldfish.
[08:51] <popey> yeah, something was materialising in the toilet there
[08:53] <Knightwise> Ick ! :^p
[09:04] <Neoti_Desktop> hey people how things ....
[09:09] <popey> great!
[09:10] <Neoti_Desktop> Cool...
[09:20] <BigRedS> I'm surely not the only person who finds it crazy that an imap syncing tool can produce the error "No UIs were found usable!"?
[09:20] <SuperMatt> I have no idea
[09:28] <popey> \o/ Danish pastries! Thousands of them.
[09:28] <gord> oh my god... its full of pastries
[09:30] <Laney> jealous
[09:30]  * BigRedS can't wait
[09:30] <Laney> is it as close to the airport as it seems?
[09:30] <BigRedS> Fosdem has waffles, uds has pastries. I need to go to more conferences
[09:33] <christel> omnom.
[09:34] <shauno> close enough
[09:35] <czajkowski> popey: so instead of cat images this week we shall be getting food pics in our timelines :)
[09:36] <BigRedS> I've had lots of pictures of showers...
[09:39] <popey> Laney, yeah, 5-10 min taxi ride
[09:39] <popey> longer on public transport I guess
[09:39] <popey> but it's not far
[09:39] <Laney> bah, taxi
[09:39]  * Laney will be getting the tube thing :-)
[09:42] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:50] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[09:50] <SuperMatt> heyhey
[09:50] <brobostigon> morning BigRedS and SuperMatt
[09:54] <Knightwise> hey brobostigon  !
[09:55] <brobostigon> hey Knightwise
[10:00] <oimon> anyone recommend any good flash game sites for toddlers that use keyboard, like cbeebies?
[10:00] <popey> cbeebies?
[10:00] <oimon> most i've seen require mouse
[10:00] <popey> oh, why not mouse?
[10:00] <oimon> cos munchkin is only 2 yrs old, and is better with arrow keys
[10:00] <oimon> like the pingu and mr tumble hames
[10:00] <oimon> he's not well :(
[10:01] <popey> awww
[10:01] <oimon> i've already had the "want to play games" strop that i thought would be a few years yet
[10:01] <christel> we used to do http://www.kneebouncers.com/ a bit when david was younger
[10:01] <christel> however they now seem to charge
[10:01] <christel> how rude
[10:02] <oimon> do the ARM chromebooks have internal storage?
[10:02] <christel> (they have a freek 1 week trial mind)
[10:03] <oimon> wow, he must be unwell, he's taken himself off to bed
[10:03] <christel> awww
[10:04] <ali1234> !info libwxgtk2.8-0
[10:04] <ali1234> !info libwxgtk2.8-0 precise
[10:04] <oimon> at least the puking has stopped for now..until i get it
[10:05] <ali1234> why do i have libwxgtk2.8-0 version 2.8.12.1-6ubuntu2.2?
[10:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:06] <davmor2> ali1234: I'm going to guess that you have an app installed that needs it
[10:06] <ali1234> how do i tell which one and where it came from?
[10:08] <davmor2> ali1234: there is a reverse dep lookup but I've never used it so don't know how to trigger it.  Just google should tell you
[10:09] <ali1234> it's from proposed, and has been deleted
[10:09] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/amd64/libwxgtk2.8-0
[10:12] <davmor2> ali1234: http://blog.hartwork.org/?p=108 second one is the one you want I believe
[10:12] <ali1234> it's not installed due to a dependency
[10:12] <ali1234> it's installed because i have -proposed enabled and installed wxgtk manually
[11:52] <popey> moo
[11:54] <davmor2> popey: Where you at dude?
[11:55] <popey> Copenhagen
[11:55] <Laney> i really want to stuff my face with pastries
[11:55] <Laney> come on sunday
[11:56] <Laney> (also, see all of my lovely Ubuntu friends again, of course *cough*)
[11:56] <davmor2> popey: oooohhhhhhhhh get you and your jet setting ;)
[11:58] <popey> Lunch was interesting
[11:58] <popey> there was a sign next to some food saying... "Ass. Tapas"
[11:59] <bashrc_> was it an executive lunch?
[11:59] <Neoti_Desktop> lol.
[11:59] <Laney> that hotel loves its ass, it seems
[12:36] <knightwise> must be lunchtime
[12:41] <alkisg> popey: hello, pad.ubuntu-uk.org is down, any ideas if it'll be up again, and when?
[12:45] <popey> alkisg, ask Daviey
[12:45] <alkisg> Thank you popey... Daviey, any help with that? ^
[12:46] <motters__> trying the lubuntu desktop.  Pretty impressive on the CPU usage - or lack thereof
[12:58] <nucc1> hi guys, I made the (in retrospect) grave error of installing the "google+ app" when firefox prompted me, and Now I cannot handle the barrage of notifications
[12:58] <nucc1> any one know how I can get rid of it?
[13:05] <motters__> I had that problem too
[13:08] <Myrtti> well, the webapp extension crashes all the time
[13:09] <Myrtti> nucc1: uninstall the deb package of it with apt-get
[13:09] <motters__> I got fed up with crashes, and have been trying other desktops
[13:09] <Myrtti> the gmail one is a bit awful too, I'd really rather have gm-notify, atleast on that I can choose which labels it shows
[13:09] <dwatkins> Can't you simply turn the notifications off?
[13:10] <Myrtti> nope.
[13:10] <Myrtti> atleast I haven't found out how
[13:10] <dwatkins> oh wow, that's surprising
[13:10] <Myrtti> the only solution I've found is uninstalling the package and fiddling with gconf to get rid of the constant prompt
[13:11] <AlanBell> unity-webapps-gmail is the package to remove
[13:11] <popey> bugs filed?
[13:11] <nucc1> Myrtti, it didn't feel like an apt-get install. it was a popup in the browser, and I wasn't prompted for any password
[13:11] <AlanBell> or tweak the user.js file it installs
[13:11] <nucc1> Myrtti, I was under the impression it was some kind of html5 offline storage stuff.
[13:11] <Myrtti> nucc1: I know
[13:11] <dwatkins> is it an add-on to firefox you can remove from within firefox, then?
[13:11] <AlanBell> popey: the api for the messaging menu got trashed rather than deprecated so everything non-canonical using it got broken
[13:12] <nucc1> it doesn't show up in firefox addons
[13:12] <nucc1> Myrtti, any idea what the package name is?
[13:12] <AlanBell> Bug #1040259
[13:12] <Myrtti> nucc1: unity-webapps-googleplus
[13:13] <AlanBell> dwatkins: you can turn off the addon entirely, but not per-website
[13:13] <AlanBell> there is a dconf key for it somewhere
[13:13] <dwatkins> AlanBell: ah ok
[13:13] <nucc1> Myrtti, thanks. quite a lot of them. I find that using Geary, I don't need any fancy gmail add-ons.
[13:14] <AlanBell> com/canonical/unity/webapps
[13:15] <nucc1> on an unrelated note, is there any chance that canonical will reveal any statistics about the "humble ubuntu download" contributions?
[13:15] <bigcalm> nucc1: Canonical kept all of the money </troll>
[13:16] <nucc1> bigcalm, fair enough IMO. they have contributed greatly to a great OS.
[13:16] <nucc1> I just want to know if it has been successful
[13:16] <popey> what money?
[13:16] <popey> people didn't pay us, they paid humblebundle
[13:16] <nucc1> the contributions that you can now make when you download ubuntul
[13:17] <AlanBell> nucc1: I expect they will reveal stats if they are exciting
[13:17] <jpds>  
[13:17] <knightwise> whow
[13:17] <knightwise> i just saw the demo video of Diaspora
[13:17] <knightwise> Great cross platform game if you ask me
[13:17] <popey> i dont think we've ever revealed financial details
[13:17] <nucc1> AlanBell, oh well, I can live with that.
[13:18] <knightwise> and for zero dinero
[13:18] <nucc1> popey, yea, but seeing the way this was promoted, I think it will be helpful to reveal the stats for this drive.
[13:18] <popey> it'll certainly be interesting to see
[13:21] <nucc1> by the way, how did firefox manage to install debs without prompting for my password?
[13:24] <davmor2> nucc1: Yes it has been a huge success and we will continue to offer support to them and them us ref HIB
[13:28] <nucc1> davmor2, I was referring to the voluntary donations you can now make when Downloading ubuntu. I hope that's what your response was for.
[13:29] <nucc1> If so, then that is great news. I have always wondered why this was not possible before, being the only real way I can contribute to Ubuntu.
[13:29] <davmor2> nucc1: ah sorry I only coped the humble bit
[13:29] <nucc1> i only used the word because of the similarities...
[13:29] <nucc1> did ubuntu do a gig with the Humble folks?
[13:30] <Darael> The more recent Humble Bundles have included the capacity to download the stuff through the USC.
[13:30] <nucc1> ah, cool
[13:30] <nucc1> i'm not much into games myself.
[13:31] <Darael> Although I understand none of the games have been packaged for Quantal yet, the bundles having been released before 12.10.
[13:31] <davmor2> Darael: the bulk of them are now on quantal
[13:32] <nucc1> i've recently returned to ubuntu from an exile too :p, so this explains my lack of info
[13:33] <nucc1> I like what the software centre is shaping up into.
[13:35] <Myrtti> I should download the latest additions to the latest humble bundle into my Aldiko
[15:33] <AlanBell> can you do ls ~/.cache/at-spi2-* |wc
[15:33] <AlanBell> and tell me what the first number is
[15:33] <AlanBell> I have 6704 directories in .cache relating to at-spi2
[15:42] <diplo> AlanBell: Was that a general question asking ?
[15:42] <diplo> If so mine = 0 :)
[15:42] <AlanBell> diplo: ok, thanks
[15:42] <AlanBell> it was a general question
[15:43] <Laney> quantal?
[15:43] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi2-atk/+bug/1020512
[15:43] <AlanBell> yeah, quantal, and I use orca sometimes
[15:43] <AlanBell> thanks Laney, lets see if they come back again
[15:44] <Laney> did you check if they're still being created?
[15:45] <AlanBell> they don't appear to be
[15:45] <AlanBell> I removed them and have run orca with no apparent issues and it did not create new ones
[15:46] <Laney> grand
[16:56] <Laney> wish I hadn't commented on that popey status now
[17:08] <czajkowski> Laney: why?
[17:45] <Laney> too many notifications :P
[17:47] <brobostigon> i just want to know, how popey did that.
[17:48] <brobostigon> there is an android qemu port,
[17:51] <AlanBell> I think it is a real install
[17:52] <AlanBell> compiled for ARM and running native
[17:52] <brobostigon> wow.
[17:52] <ali1234> running ubuntu x86 in qemu on a tablet would not even be worth mentioning
[17:52] <AlanBell> I don't see why it shouldn't be, but I want it confirmed
[17:52] <ali1234> sure you can do it, but there's no point at all, ever
[17:53] <AlanBell> yeah, that would be all kinds of wrong!
[17:53] <brobostigon> AlanBell: i want to know how, aswell.
[17:53] <ali1234> you can run windows on the N900
[17:53] <ali1234> but... no
[17:53] <AlanBell> one common way to get ubuntu on an android device is to run in a chroot (compiled for ARM) and get the display via VNC
[17:53] <brobostigon> debian would be better, and also a more touch friendly gui.
[17:54] <AlanBell> but I suspect this is a real install, not on the Android kernel and with display drivers rather than VNC hacks
[17:54] <ali1234> "not on the android kernel" - unlikely
[17:54] <brobostigon> yes, i would agree.
[17:54] <ali1234> it will be the android kernel with software X11
[17:55] <ali1234> or VNC as you said
[17:55]  * AlanBell thinks a Linaro kernel
[17:55] <ali1234> honestly i would rather just run ubuntu on a powerful server and vnc to that from the tablet
[17:55] <ali1234> would probably perform better
[17:56] <ali1234> there's no such thing as "linaro kernel" and "android kernel" it is all just linux
[17:58] <AlanBell> true enough
[18:50] <ali1234> the nexus 7 thing is going to be a big reveal at UDS? i thought it was just some clever hack someone made
[18:51] <ali1234> that's... underwhelming
[18:51] <Azelphur> what nexus 7 thing?
[18:51] <ali1234> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/ubuntu-demoed-on-nexus-7-tablet
[18:51] <ali1234> the one AlanBell was talking about above^
[18:52] <Azelphur> :o awesome
[18:52] <Azelphur> so that's native?
[18:52] <Azelphur> not chroot?
[18:52] <ali1234> a chroot is native
[18:52] <ali1234> -_-
[18:52] <ali1234> it's literally as native as you can get
[18:52] <Azelphur> well, true
[18:52] <Azelphur> I already have Ubuntu running in a chroot though
[18:52] <ali1234> exactly
[18:53] <Azelphur> oldnews is old
[18:53] <ali1234> and it wouldn't take much to have it running outside that chroot
[18:53] <ali1234> because... drumrolll... it's already native if it runs in a chroot
[18:53] <ali1234> yes, exactly my point
[18:53] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:54] <ali1234> last time around it was ubuntu for android... nearly a year after some hacker did it single handed in his spare time
[18:54] <ali1234> suddenly everyone got excited and wanted to buy one... except... you can't
[18:54] <Azelphur> lol
[18:54] <ali1234> not any more than you could already
[18:54] <ali1234> the problem with these demos is that the part canonical makes is trivial
[18:55] <ali1234> rebuilding ubuntu for arm? they did that years ago
[18:55] <ali1234> the hard part is the hardware adaptation
[18:55] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:55] <ali1234> and that will only happen if the OEM does it
[18:55] <ali1234> which they are not interested in doing
[18:55] <Azelphur> I dunno why Ubuntu isn't tablet optimised already tbh, it'd be super easy to do
[18:55] <Azelphur> all you need to do is hook when your in a text prompt and show the keyboard much like android does, something like that can't be super hard
[18:56] <ali1234> because nobody sells a tablet with ubuntu on it... at least nobody with the piles of cash it would cost when you can't get people to do it for free
[18:56] <AlanBell> already does that
[18:56] <Azelphur> AlanBell: it does? cool
[18:56] <AlanBell> yeah, onboard does it (and yeah, onboard might not be like most tablet keyboards)
[18:57] <Azelphur> :)
[18:57] <ali1234> actually i;m being to harsh
[18:58] <ali1234> i would rather have a nexus 7 with aftermarket ubuntu than a kde spark, for example
[18:58] <ali1234> the nexus actually has decent build quality, that's important in a mobile device
[18:59] <AlanBell> and there are high volumes of it
[18:59] <ali1234> yes, that too
[18:59] <AlanBell> or there will be
[18:59] <ali1234> unlike the phone thing, i forgot what it's called
[18:59] <ali1234> atrix
[19:00] <AlanBell> indeed
[19:00] <ali1234> nobody bought it
[19:00] <ali1234> nobody actually wants to have to unplug their laptop to make a phone call
[19:00] <AlanBell> no fun having an open source community around something nobody has
[19:00] <ali1234> it's completely incompatible with sidescreening too
[19:01] <ali1234> yeah your mobile can be a TV or a laptop
[19:01] <ali1234> but not all of them at once, and that's how people actually use them
[19:06] <ali1234> imagine the scenario. you are watching a movie with your friends on netflix, streamed on your atrix which is plugged into the back of your telly
[19:07] <ali1234> "hey it's that guy" "look him up on imdb" "hang on i just need to pause the movie, unplug the phone ... plug it in to the laptop shell ... now, what was i doing again?"
[19:07] <ali1234> "hang on a sec, someone is ringing me"
[19:12] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20026938
[19:13] <ali1234> i think frank sidebottom has reincarnated
[19:32] <brobostigon> whats the command to pull a git repo, when i have the *.git for it? i cant remember the command.
[19:33] <ali1234> git pull
[19:34] <brobostigon> ptaylor@debian:~$ git pull https://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
[19:34] <brobostigon> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
[19:35] <mgdm> brobostigon: clone
[19:35] <mgdm> git clone https://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
[19:35] <brobostigon> mgdm: let me try,
[19:35] <brobostigon> error: RPC failed; result=51, HTTP code = 0
[19:36] <brobostigon> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
[19:38] <mgdm> try it again
[19:38] <mgdm> that sounds like a glitch
[19:38] <brobostigon> ok, one moment.
[19:39] <brobostigon> same result.
[19:40] <mgdm> weird
[19:40] <mgdm> you got any proxies or anything in the way?
[19:40] <brobostigon> no.
[19:40]  * AlanBell tests
[19:41] <AlanBell> Cloning into 'Arduino'...
[19:41] <brobostigon> my routers firewall, but i can push to my github repo fine.
[19:41] <AlanBell> that isn't doing anything
[19:41] <mgdm> it's working for me, just very very slowly
[19:41] <brobostigon> hmmm,
[19:47] <brobostigon> let me try my own repo.
[19:52] <brobostigon> https://github.com/brobostigon/saab-hybrid.git  i am getting the same result with my own repo, which worked on friday.
[20:01] <bigcalm> brobostigon: could be an ssh key issue
[20:01] <AlanBell> brobostigon: it eventually started slowly working
[20:01] <bigcalm> Worked for me too
[20:01] <brobostigon> bigcalm: hmm, interesting, even with the arduino repo?
[20:02] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ok. i will try again.
[20:02] <bigcalm> brobostigon: taking its time
[20:02] <ali1234> hahaha i;m an idiot
[20:02] <ali1234> git clone. of course it is. *duh*
[20:02]  * bigcalm frames that
[20:02] <ali1234> sorry about that :)
[20:02] <brobostigon> bigcalm: it just failing straight out, it isnt stalling.
[20:03] <ali1234> can't be ssh if you;re cloning on https
[20:03] <bigcalm> brobostigon: do you have any keys for github.com in ~/.ssh/config ?
[20:03] <bigcalm> Good point
[20:03] <ali1234> url works for me btw
[20:04] <bigcalm> I'm still waiting on arduino, but it hasn't said `no` yet
[20:04] <brobostigon> bigcalm: for my repo, yes. yes i can push without entering password etc.
[20:04] <ali1234> try cloning "git read-only"
[20:04] <ali1234> git clone git://github.com/arduino/Arduino.git
[20:04] <bigcalm> Ah, here we go
[20:05] <brobostigon> AlanBell: that is what i am trying.
[20:05] <brobostigon> ali1234: that is what i am trying.
[20:05] <brobostigon> sorryy AlanBell
[20:05] <ali1234> https:// or git:// or both are failing?
[20:05] <bigcalm> git.com is really struggling for me in the web browser
[20:06] <bigcalm> I just finished Rochard. Now what? :(
[20:06] <brobostigon> ali1234: git: is going slowly, as bigcalm described, https: is failing still.
[20:07] <brobostigon> infact git: has stalled.
[20:07] <bigcalm> I think they are having problems
[20:07] <ali1234> yeah, sounds like it
[20:07] <brobostigon> yes, that seems the only answer.
[20:07] <ali1234> also, inotool is amazing for arduino development
[20:08] <brobostigon> ali1234: i was looks at that beta arduino ide, because it works with there new arm based arduino released today.
[20:08] <ali1234> ah
[20:08] <ali1234> is it revamped at all? i found that IDE painful
[20:09] <ali1234> always randomly disconnecting and crashing, and really slow
[20:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: i dont know, thats why i wanted a look.
[20:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: slow, i agree, it is java. but i havent experienced those other issues.
[20:10] <ali1234> it would alwways get out of sync and stop communicating
[20:10] <ali1234> and i'd have to replug the board
[20:10] <ali1234> never happened with inotool
[20:10] <brobostigon> interesting, never had anything like that.
[20:10] <ali1234> well, i was pushing it, to be fair
[20:10] <ali1234> overclocking the serial port to 9mbps
[20:10] <brobostigon> ah.
[20:11] <Myrtti> nice, now the notification thing doesn't even show if I've got new unread messages in Empathy
[20:11] <AlanBell> Myrtti: I think I know how to fix gm-notify now
[20:11] <Myrtti> I think I'll make a backup of my junk and reinstall soonish.
[20:12] <Myrtti> this is getting too painful
[20:12] <AlanBell> and I made http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/ have notifications too (probably a dreadful idea)
[20:12] <Myrtti> AlanBell: that would be lovely
[20:13] <ali1234> Myrtti: is that the xfce notification thing (which i think is actaully te gnome panel applet) or the unity one?
[20:13] <Myrtti> ali1234: unity one
[20:13] <Myrtti> I switched from Xubuntu to Ubuntu about a year ago
[20:13] <AlanBell> ali1234: there have been several undocumented changes to the Unity APIs
[20:13] <ali1234> AlanBell: you made it into a webapp?
[20:14] <AlanBell> documentation is a pile of fail right now for the messaging menu#
[20:14] <jacobw> AlanBell: has any part of Unity ever been documented?
[20:14] <AlanBell> you have to read the source of the canonical produced webapps to find out what the new stuff is
[20:14] <AlanBell> jacobw: sure
[20:14] <ali1234> web apps has quite good documentation actually
[20:14] <ali1234> unfortunately it's all wrong
[20:14] <Myrtti> I can't believe it's like that *after* release of Q
[20:14] <ali1234> it was right at some point though
[20:15] <Myrtti> I would have assumed there would have been some before
[20:15] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/javascript/index.html <- mostly doesn't quite work any more
[20:15] <ali1234> yeah. that page is well written though, i'll give them that
[20:15] <ali1234> just needs updating
[20:15] <AlanBell> indeed
[20:16] <Myrtti> or I'll just install 12.04. I liked 12.04. 12.04 was a lovely version.
[20:16] <AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/ <- works totally differently now
[20:17] <ali1234> i'm staying on 12.04 because i have too much customization and i don't want to build compiz from source again
[20:19] <ali1234> 5 years is a long time and hopefully all the hipsters will have gone away to ruin freebsd or something by then
[20:21] <jacobw> lol
[20:23] <Myrtti> I'm ready to throw the goddamn messaging menu to the sharks.
[20:23] <Myrtti> and stomp on it.
[20:23] <daubers> Myrtti: Sharks with frikkin lasers on their heads?
[20:24] <Myrtti> I ask it to do one thing, show me when there's unread messages in Empathy, since I know it can't show me gmail inbox because the webapp extension crashes.
[20:24] <Myrtti> and it fails to do that.
[20:24] <Myrtti> daubers: yes.
[20:25] <ali1234> pidgin gives me gmail notifications *and* IM notifications
[20:25] <ali1234> why do i need webapps again?
[20:26] <ali1234> (it also has a functional irc client)
[20:35] <Myrtti> no, pidgin doesn't have functional IRC client. Especially the Windows one doesn't.
[20:36] <Myrtti> it's an insult to all proper IRC clients to call Pidgin's attempt one.
[20:36] <ali1234> demonstrably false
[20:37] <Myrtti> depends on what you call demonstrably.
[20:38] <ali1234> demonstrably in that it supports the full range of what you can do on freenode
[20:41] <ali1234> it understands services and supports using a proxy
[20:42] <ali1234> when you tell it to open new conversations in a tab not a new window, it actually does it
[20:43] <ali1234> it doesn't put everything in enormous speech bubbles, making the scrollback several screens long after a few minutes
[20:44] <ali1234> it doesn't use a fixed width font, because we're not talking in assembly language
[20:45] <ali1234> it differentiates between inactive, active, and channels where you've been highlighted
[20:45] <Myrtti> https://developer.pidgin.im/ticket/951
[20:45] <ali1234> and even channels where someone parted or joined but nobody spoke have a visual ID
[20:47] <ali1234> i've been using irc for 10 years and i don't even know what any of those commands even does
[20:48] <Myrtti> :-(
[20:48] <Myrtti> I've been using IRC for 15 years and I think pidgin is quite sad.
[20:49] <ali1234> to my understanding, /who doesn't even work on freenode
[20:49] <Myrtti> but to each of our own, if you're happy with pidgin, then who am I to tell you not to use it. I'm sure it fits many people, I just happen to see a lot of problems in using it. Especially one of the Windows versions leaks out information when quitting
[20:49] <ali1234> you can't see who is in a channel unless you're in it
[20:49] <ali1234> if you're in it the list is right there on the screen already
[20:49] <Myrtti> oh man
[20:51] <Myrtti> yes, /who does work on freenode, what it prints is relative to channel and user modes.
[20:52] <Myrtti> it contains more information than just who is in a channel with you, which may or may not be relevant to people using pidgin.
[20:52] <ali1234> well, it contains their mode too, which is also visible right there on the screen when you join the channel
[20:53] <ali1234> only use case i can see for this (as a user) is if you want to see who is in a channel before you join, because you're avoiding someone. i never part anyway.
[20:54] <motters__> what's the best IRC client?
[20:54] <AlanBell> !best
[20:54] <ali1234> i never said pidgin was best :)
[20:54] <Azelphur> motters__: if you don't know, xchat is a good starting point
[20:54] <AlanBell> but irssi is good if you have a server to run it on
[20:55] <ali1234> it is best though
[20:55] <Azelphur> I use pidgin with a bouncer for my daily driver
[20:55] <Azelphur> but if I need poweruser features I just fire up xchat and it auto connects to my bouncer that supports multiple presence
[20:55] <Azelphur> so then I get the extra features, too
[20:55] <Azelphur> having my cake and eating it \o/
[20:55] <AlanBell> nom
[20:55] <motters__> I knew that there isn't really a best, but was wondering what people would come up with
[20:56] <ali1234> i can tell you what is the worst, and it's the one in empathy
[20:56] <motters__> havn't tried irssi
[20:56] <ali1234> what exactly is bestbot btw?
[20:56] <Azelphur> lol empathy
[20:57] <Azelphur> because nickname and username is the same thing
[20:57] <AlanBell> To use BestBot, type things like "What is the best  IRC client?
[20:57] <Myrtti> XChat is ok. I don't recommend any of the IM clients as IRC clients
[20:57] <christle> irssi is best.
[20:57] <brobostigon> motters__: irssi is a cli client, that probably why you havent considered it.
[20:57] <Myrtti> irssi ♥
[20:57] <Azelphur> NINJA CHRISTEL SWOOPS IN
[20:57] <Azelphur> xD
[20:57] <brobostigon> irssi, :)
[20:57] <motters__> heh, you don't know how much I use the cli
[20:58] <brobostigon> motters__: but most people. who ask what is the best, generally have certain experience, in my experience.
[20:58] <motters__> I've really only used xchat
[20:59] <brobostigon> never tried it myself, but it seems popular.
[20:59] <motters__> in a lot of distros xchat is the default
[21:00] <brobostigon> i agree.
[21:00] <Myrtti> I actually made the Christmas card for irssi years and years ago
[21:00] <brobostigon> cool
[21:00] <Myrtti> I still have the file somewhere
[21:00] <brobostigon> :)
[21:03] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1298594/
[21:04] <brobostigon> lol :)
[21:05] <Myrtti> hoho
[21:07] <bigcalm> Haha
[21:07] <Myrtti> yeah anyway, some versions of Pidgin leak information on messages/queries/channels open on the moment the client is turned off
[21:07] <Myrtti> it's a bit sad.
[21:07] <ali1234> "leak"?
[21:08] <ali1234> pidgin actually sends every message you send or receive over dbus to anyone that cares to listen
[21:09] <ali1234> pretty sure empathy does it too
[21:09] <Myrtti> the quit/part message is replaced by a list of pm tabs or channels open.
[21:09] <Myrtti> I think we've narrowed it down to Windows versions
[21:09] <ali1234> wow, that's weird
[21:09] <motters__> how do I connect to freenode in irssi?
[21:09] <ali1234> well if you ever see me do that let me know :)
[21:10] <bigcalm> motters__: /server irc.freenode.net
[21:10] <bigcalm> Or, irssi -c irc.freenode.net
[21:10] <ali1234> it actually tells you when you start it up
[21:10] <Myrtti> or if this is in Ubuntu machine, /connect ubuntu
[21:11] <ali1234> irc.ubuntu.com = freenode
[21:11] <Myrtti> yup
[21:11] <bigcalm> Sneaky
[21:11] <Myrtti> anyway, it's past midnight here so I should prolly head to bed.
[21:11] <brobostigon> does that only apply to ubuntu desktop, as that isnt here in irssi on ubuntu server.
[21:11] <Myrtti> should go vote tomorrow
[21:12] <motters> now on irssi
[21:12] <brobostigon> :)
[21:12] <AlanBell> yay
[21:12] <AlanBell> motters: the trick is to run byobu, then run irssi in that
[21:12] <motters> this would be ok for running on a server
[21:12] <AlanBell> then you can reconnect to it
[21:12] <AlanBell> just ssh in again and type byobu to be back where you were
[21:13] <motters> what is byobu?
[21:13] <brobostigon> byobu + screen + irssi + bitlbee, :)
[21:13] <AlanBell> it is GNU screen or tmux
[21:13] <ali1234> tmux
[21:13] <motters> sounds complicated
[21:13] <AlanBell> nope, not complicated
[21:13] <brobostigon> motters: it is a terminal window manager.
[21:13] <KrimZon> byobu makes screen easy to use
[21:13] <ali1234> it's like a shell you can disconnect from and come back to later and the stuff keeps running
[21:13] <AlanBell> it is just a session that says alive
[21:13] <motters> ah
[21:13] <Myrtti> tmux > screen
[21:14] <AlanBell> it runs forever, unless you turn off the wrong ring main when fixing a fan in the bathroom
[21:14] <ali1234> you can also have multiple sessions inside it and switch between them, and multiple people can connect and share the command line (or just watch)
[21:14] <motters> I assume that you can run scripts in irssi
[21:14] <brobostigon> lol
[21:14] <brobostigon> motters: yes, perl.
[21:14] <Myrtti> motters: yup
[21:14] <motters> what about python?
[21:14] <ali1234> tmux has problems, like you can't start it up without a tty last time i tried
[21:15] <AlanBell> F2 to create a new terminal, and F3/F4 to move left and right between them
[21:15] <Myrtti> motters: http://scripts.irssi.org/
[21:15] <Myrtti> also almost relevant http://irssi.org/themes
[21:15] <Myrtti> and yes I should send them new screenshots of my themes.
[21:16] <Myrtti> thank you for asking.
[21:16] <motters> looks like I may have to learn perl
[21:18] <motters> looks like irssi won't run in an emacs shell.  I guess you can't have it all
[21:19] <ali1234> M-x erc-select
[21:20] <brobostigon> trackbar and adv_windowlist are useful irssi scripts in my experience, makes things miles easier.
[21:20] <shauno> emacs doesn't have an irc client built-in?
[21:21] <ali1234> shauno: it does, see above ^
[21:21] <zleap> emacs seems to have everything built in
[21:21] <Laney> yes it does
[21:21] <Laney> erc
[21:21] <zleap> it even has a sokoban game
[21:21] <zleap> towers of hanoi and some sort of psycological program
[21:21] <shauno> ali1234: sorry, couldn't decipher that one
[21:21] <jacobw> it even has a psychotherapist
[21:21] <zleap> jacobw, yeah
[21:21] <ali1234> eliza
[21:22] <shauno> and tetris iirc
[21:22] <motters-emacs> heh
[21:22] <zleap> yeah
[21:22] <motters-emacs> it works
[21:22] <zleap> that sounds familar
[21:22] <motters-emacs> emacs seems to do everything
[21:23] <shauno> I used to use it as an AIM client sometime in the late 90s
[21:24] <motters-emacs> I've only been using emacs in the last few years
[21:24] <shauno> I had a variant called memacs in the early 90s, that even had an editor built in
[21:24] <motters-emacs> in the late 1990s I used something called microEmacs
[21:25] <AlanBell> http://www.amigawiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/MEmacs
[21:25] <shauno> yup, that's the beastie
[21:28] <shauno> I love that they describe it as 'spartan'.  that may be the only thing I've never called any emacs variant called
[21:29] <ali1234> microemacs actually had nothing to do with emacs
[21:29] <motters-emacs> it looked similar to emacs
[21:29] <ali1234> kinda
[21:29] <ali1234> all text editors look kinda the same though anyway
[21:30] <motters-emacs> in terms of menus
[21:31] <shauno> interesting.  the amiga wiki calls it a port, wikipedia calls it 'emacs-like'
[21:31] <ali1234> yeah, it's not a port
[21:31] <ali1234> emacs is written in lisp
[21:31] <motters-emacs> I don't know much about the history of it.  It appeared on a coverdisk, and I tried it.
[21:31] <ali1234> i doubt an amiga 500 would be fast enough for such a huge program in a high level language
[21:32] <ali1234> remember amiga (microsoft) basic?
[21:32] <motters-emacs> it wasn't slow at all
[21:32] <ali1234> exactly.
[21:32] <ali1234> amiga basic was though. famously slow.
[21:32] <shauno> now them's fighting words.  don't make me install netbsd on mine
[21:32] <motters-emacs> yes
[21:33] <ali1234> you can install netbsd on hardware without mmu?
[21:33] <brobostigon> i should have a look at emacs, i tried vi, and it seemed unsuable, then descovered nano on the debian wiki, and it works perfectly, and i can understand it.
[21:33] <ali1234> yeah
[21:33] <ali1234> one thing though
[21:33] <ali1234> when you forget to sudo with nano, what then?
[21:33] <brobostigon> ali1234: it has never happened.
[21:33] <ali1234> i wish it could pop up a requester, like aptitude does
[21:33] <brobostigon> ah.
[21:34] <ali1234> i bet vi and emacs can do that
[21:34] <shauno> I *think* mine will run netbsd because it has an aftermarket cpu board  (but won't in its stock config)
[21:34] <motters-emacs> Havn't used other editors much, but with emacs there is an "app" for most things
[21:34] <brobostigon> ali1234: like gksudo, for gui apps. ?
[21:34] <ali1234> brobostigon: no, like when an app requests elevated permissions after you've already run it
[21:34] <ali1234> like when update manager asks for your password
[21:35] <brobostigon> ali1234: i got you, like that gnome popup thingie?
[21:35] <ali1234> or when you unlock the users control panel
[21:35] <ali1234> yeah
[21:35] <brobostigon> ali1234: but in cli, that would be interesting.
[21:35] <ormiret> I don't think emacs will do that automatically if you don't have write permissions but you can visit files via sudo from a running emacs
[21:35] <ali1234> well, i noticed aptitude does it earlier today. it restarts itself though, which is kinda ugly
[21:36] <ali1234> but it gets the job done
[21:36] <brobostigon> ali1234: i was going to say, i have never seen it do that. without doing that.
[21:36] <ali1234> just run aptitude as normal user and try to install something :)
[21:36] <ali1234> oh you mean without restarting. yeah
[21:37] <brobostigon> ali1234: i will try it in debian and in ubuntu, and see what happens, i am curious now.
[21:37] <ali1234> but the point is i don't have to save to a temp file then restart manually, load the tempfile, then save as
[21:37] <ali1234> i'm on 12.04. dunno if it makes a difference
[21:38] <brobostigon> me neither, i have never forgot the right permissions that i can remember, weither su or sudo.
[21:38] <brobostigon> so never seen that.
[21:39] <motters-emacs> have been trying the lubuntu desktop
[21:39] <motters-emacs> it's nice.  The CPU is hardly doing anything
[21:39] <brobostigon> i am liking the 12.10 gnome remix, :)
[21:40] <ali1234> does it still have classic mode?
[21:40] <brobostigon> ali1234: yes.
[21:40] <ali1234> and does it work properly if you force it to use compiz?
[21:40] <brobostigon> ali1234: gnome-shell fallback.
[21:40] <brobostigon> ali1234: not tried that.
[21:40] <motters-emacs> apparently gnome shell is going to have integration with owncloud
[21:41] <brobostigon> motters-emacs: that would be cool.
[21:41] <ali1234> you mean gnome?
[21:41] <brobostigon> gnome3*
[21:41] <AlanBell> it needs some unity integration as well
[21:41] <ali1234> most of that work would go in nautilus and gvfs i expect, which all function under classic mode
[21:41] <ali1234> and indeed unity as well
[21:41] <ali1234> much as u1 integration does
[21:42] <motters-emacs> right
[21:42] <AlanBell> owncloud does a bit more than filestorage, it is kinda neat
[21:42] <ali1234> so does u1
[21:42] <brobostigon> music. contacts, pictures. :)
[21:43] <ali1234> none of it really has anything to do with the window manager you are using
[21:43] <motters-emacs> eventually I'll increase my server storage, and then I might try owncloud
[21:43] <motters-emacs> especially if it gets integrated into the desktop
[21:44] <brobostigon> there are external integration apps for linux, android etc. otherwise it is in browser.
[21:44] <motters-emacs> yes
[21:44] <ali1234> ooo it's on OBS
[21:45] <ali1234> http://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:community&package=owncloud
[21:45] <ali1234> just like a ppa, but not a ppa
[21:45] <ali1234> i might have to try this out
[21:45] <motters-emacs> it's a ppa, but not as we know it
[21:45] <ali1234> it's better than a ppa because it doesn't force opinionated choices on you
[21:46] <motters-emacs> nice
[21:46] <dwatkins> munin works by magics
[21:47] <dwatkins> I tried adding a sensor, but it doesn't change the output of the plugin, it's witchcraft, I tell you! ;)
[22:19] <Darael> ali1234: I'm an hour and several screens of scrollback late, but tmux will start quite happily without a tty: "tmux new-session -d 'command'" will open a session with a window running 'command', detached, and won't care about whether there's a TTY.
[22:37] <shauno> last time I updated my kernel, I had some issues with it not creating a sane grub config.  I really wish I'd written this down now.  250 days uptime later, I figure I really should try to update