[00:13] <rick_h_> bah, in unity intsalling the system...how do people use this? :P
[00:14] <rick_h_> I might try unity mono for a font for a little bit though
[00:14] <rick_h_> it's all curvy and cute
[00:14] <rick_h_> what's the keyboard shortcut to bring up the workspace switcher?
[01:40] <derekv> You Canonical guys have an office?
[01:42] <rick_h_> there's an office in London
[01:43] <rick_h_> some of the locals go there once in a while and we have DC space there somewhere
[01:43] <rick_h_> and there's some smaller offices in china/asia areas for dealing with vendors and the like
[01:43] <rick_h_> ah, back into awesome...feels so good to have proper shortcuts again
[01:45] <derekv> I meant like here in michigan.  So the answer is no.
[01:45] <derekv> I thought I heard you talking about going to the office however
[01:50] <rick_h_> no, my last job I went to the office 2 days a week at morpace
[01:58] <derekv> I'm thinking about how I don't want to be typecast as a java spring developer.
[02:00] <derekv> I'm not even hellbent on doing mobile development.  Mostly I just am in interested in that because its looked/looks like a fun wave to surf.
[02:00] <rick_h_> yea, that's cool. I wish I did more mobile stuff tbh
[02:01] <rick_h_> when I get back from copenhagen I want to sit down and setup the android dev stuff and hack on the bookie mobile app some
[02:01] <rick_h_> I think I could easily tweak a few of the bugs in there
[02:01] <rick_h_> once I get over the setup hurdle
[02:02] <derekv> yea
[02:02] <derekv> I think you could
[02:02] <rick_h_> and once I got over the java eye-bleed :)
[02:03] <derekv> haha
[02:03] <derekv> ikr
[02:03] <rick_h_> but yea, one of my goals when I get back. You'll need to come to CHC and help me get a workflow going a bit
[02:03] <derekv> sure
[02:03] <rick_h_> missed you at the last one
[02:04] <derekv> Yea anyone could jump in at this point because so little is done
[02:04] <derekv> its still totally green
[02:04] <derekv> yea i like forgot it was going on.  i was on my bike and rode not far from there riding home around 8
[02:04] <derekv> but got home, remembered, but felt tired and just went to bed early
[02:05] <rick_h_> yea, definitely nights where it's tough to head down
[02:05] <derekv> .. re the java thing, totally unessisary for the project but we could use it as an excuse to try other languages on android
[02:06] <rick_h_> well, I like the idea of a place to tinker with java, the mobile UX a bit more, etc
[02:06] <derekv> jvm languages can be made to work I think but you have to include the runtimes as jars
[02:06] <derekv> which makes the app a bit heavy
[02:06] <rick_h_> yea, if it wasn't in java I'd just be trying to do some phonegap/mobile UI setup
[02:07] <derekv> hey i wonder if there's any languages that compile to java or just don't require much of a runtime
[02:07] <derekv> or even just the ability to have lambdas
[02:07] <derekv> maybe there's a lib for that, that will work in dalvic
[02:07] <derekv> to the google!
[02:08] <rick_h_> hah
[02:10] <derekv> like
[02:11] <derekv> just something that kills some of the boilerplate
[02:11] <derekv> some syntatical sugar would be fine
[02:11] <derekv> it would be an improvement
[02:11] <derekv> oh well
[02:18] <derekv> everyone knows the solution to boilerplate is that some future version of eclipse will have a generator thing you can click to with your mouse in the source menu for it
[02:18] <derekv> so the solution is wait
[02:22] <derekv> meanwhile the correct thing to do is to find some other place it occurs, highlight this with your mouse, right click and choose copy, go to your new class, and right click and click paste.  Then right click on the errors and choose a quick fix until they are all gone.  Then click on team and select all the changes and check in.  so you don't have to use the keyboard here you can copy your last message which should be something like 
[02:22] <derekv> then drag the war file over to the share on the server where tomcat webapps is and leave
[02:22] <derekv> cause your done
[02:22] <derekv> no keyboard.  like a boss.
[04:49] <Blazeix> you can use google guava to get some functional programming goodness in java. it's still a pain, though
[11:31] <rick_h_> ugh, morning
[11:58] <snap-l> Morning
[11:59] <snap-l> Functional guava for Java? I'd rather eat lava
[12:00] <brousch> That would not be good for you
[12:02] <snap-l> Neither would Java
[12:20] <nullspace> hey now
[12:47] <snap-l> nullspace: No offense, but the sooner I can get Java off my machine, the happier I'll be.
[12:47] <snap-l> problem is there's two programs that are best in class for me that I can't seem to find good replacement
[12:47] <snap-l> Moneydance and Freemind
[12:48] <snap-l> but I've turned off the Java plugin in the browser
[12:48] <snap-l> because Oracle can't manage to get their crap together regarding security and Java.
[13:19] <snap-l> man, rsync and USB 2.0 can really crush a machine, no matter how beefy
[13:19] <rick_h_> bah :P
[13:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: How goes?
[13:24] <rick_h_> snap-l: ok, trying like mad to get my fresh laptop install going
[13:24] <rick_h_> still have ot clean the fish tank, finish the boy's halloween Robin utility belt, and shower up before I hit the airport this afternoon :/
[13:24] <rick_h_> crazy day
[13:25] <rick_h_> though liking 12.10, feeling snappy
[13:25] <rick_h_> and almost used unity for 60minutes last night :P
[13:25] <snap-l> Cool. I haven't even downloaded 12.10 yet.
[13:25] <rick_h_> I have some more tweaking to do to get it a little bit closer
[13:25] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, Unity takes a while to get used to for power users.
[13:25] <snap-l> there's a lot of good things int here, though.
[13:26] <snap-l> but I know it's going to be frustrating for you since you're used to really customizing things
[13:26] <rick_h_> well, for me I just need to break the windows key. I don't/won't use the dash stuff and that's my main shortcut for all my window manager stuff
[13:26] <rick_h_> so win-g = chrome win-f = firefox win-j/k swaps windows
[13:26] <snap-l> You can use it for shortcuts
[13:26] <rick_h_> and things like urxvt won't play well in the launcher
[13:26] <rick_h_> since they don't have .desktop files and such
[13:26] <snap-l> Just set up the sidebar with what you like, and use win-1, win-2, etc.
[13:28] <rick_h_> right, but urxvt I can pin to the sidebar, but it won't launch it or launch new instances with middle-click and such
[13:28] <rick_h_> but I got my normal shortcut of ctrl-enter to work for launching new instances
[13:28] <rick_h_> so it's not too bad
[13:28] <snap-l> Yeah, I'd be surprised if urxvt works well under Unity.
[13:29] <snap-l> seemed pretty finicky whenever I used it
[13:29] <snap-l> Which is why I've stuck with gnome terminal
[13:29] <snap-l> Even though I can crush the whole system with gnome-terminal and scrolling output
[13:30] <snap-l> especially my ATI card at home with two monitors will slow to a crawl
[13:30] <snap-l> but I blame the ATI drivers for that
[13:32] <jrwren> guava is the first lib i'd grab if i had to write java.
[13:34] <snap-l> I'd grab some fava
[13:34] <snap-l> and figure out how to eat my own head.
[13:35] <snap-l> http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=java&typeofrhyme=perfect&org1=syl&org2=l&org3=y
[13:35] <snap-l> There are not that many words that rhyme with Java
[13:36] <Blazeix> more than the number of words that rhyme with 'python'
[13:36] <Blazeix> so this shows us that java > python. clearly.
[13:36]  * Blazeix braces for the kickban
[13:47] <snap-l> Blazeix: Nah, we just replace the first letter of Python with whatever we want.
[13:47] <snap-l> Jython, Cython
[13:47]  * snap-l waits for Python Lisp: Lython
[13:48] <snap-l> At least they broke that cycle with Iron Python
[13:48]  * snap-l doesn't want to live in a world with Mython or Nython
[13:48] <rick_h_> party!
[13:53] <snap-l> I love my mom, but this election is going to make me want to throw up.
[13:53] <brousch> Mark her as spam
[13:53] <snap-l> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/ATT00001
[13:54] <snap-l> Wrote her back: I think you got the address wrong: Obama wants to help Sesame Street, Romney wants to fun Wall Street
[13:54] <brousch> Inspiring
[13:59] <rick_h_> I had to go to a baptism party where there were multiple ragean pictures mounted on the walls and the father wore a 'protect marriage' t-shirt
[13:59] <snap-l> rick_h_: God, that sucks
[13:59] <rick_h_> yea, took lots of effort to just keep quite
[14:01] <snap-l> I can imagin
[14:09] <brousch> I don't get invited to baptism parties
[14:13] <Blazeix> people have been wary of inviting brousch since the great baby-eating incident of '09.
[14:14] <brousch> Quite stalking me!
[14:14] <brousch> Quit, too!
[14:14] <snap-l> Blazeix: It wasn't a baby eating
[14:14] <snap-l> It got reported wrong
[14:15] <snap-l> It was when he ran up to the altar, grabbed the baby, and spiked it into the pool, yelling "TOUCHDOWN JESUS!"
[14:15] <snap-l> They reported it as an eating because nobody would believe the truth
[14:20] <Blazeix> rick_h_: so are you overseas now? or is your trip still coming up?
[14:20] <rick_h_> Blazeix: fly out 6pm
[14:20] <Blazeix> ah, cool. good luck
[14:21] <rick_h_> thanks
[14:21] <brousch> You must arrive at like 6AM local time
[14:22] <rick_h_> well I get to amsterdam something like that
[14:22] <rick_h_> and then head out to copenhagen and get in around 11am
[14:22] <dzho> oh, UDS
[14:23] <rick_h_> well, this week is product strategy sprints and next week is UDS
[14:23] <rick_h_> so I get to do half of each
[14:23] <snap-l> rick_h_: I've got CHC covered this week
[14:24] <snap-l> Though next week is Halloween.
[14:24] <dzho> so NW/Delta code share with KLM?
[14:24] <snap-l> WOndering if we should just do normal CHC on that day instead of early edition
[14:24] <snap-l> unless someone can pick up the room for Early Edition
[14:24] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, might just fall through
[14:24] <rick_h_> dzho: yea
[14:25] <snap-l> because my niece is coming over, so I'll be a little late.
[14:25] <rick_h_> yea, I'd not worry about it. If they give a stink at Caribou I'll take care of it when I get back
[14:25] <snap-l> rick_h_: ok. I could also see if I could pre-pay for the next week
[14:26] <snap-l> Wouldn't have a problem doing that
[14:26] <rick_h_> snap-l: up to you, sorry to drop it on you. I should have thought to do that last week :/
[14:26] <snap-l> rick_h_: No worries. Means I get K-cups. :)
[14:26] <snap-l> Their Mahogany k-cups are awesome
[14:27] <snap-l> rick_h_: And you have enough to worry about. We'll sort it out.
[14:27] <brousch> snap-l: We cancelled our usual weekly Wednesday thing
[14:27] <brousch> For Halloween
[14:28] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I'm hoping we can still have something
[14:29] <rick_h_> yea, not everyone has kids. Actually I don't know that most of CHC does
[14:29] <snap-l> They're stealth kids
[14:29] <rick_h_> heh
[14:29] <snap-l> I'd say it's about half-and-half.
[14:30] <rick_h_> yea
[14:33] <brousch> If they don't have kids they should still be handing out candy
[14:36] <rick_h_> until 8pm?
[14:36] <rick_h_> what time do you guys get to go?
[14:36] <rick_h_> Halloween Trick or Treat hours are:
[14:36] <rick_h_> 6:00pm-7:00pm on Wednesday, October 31, 2012
[14:36] <rick_h_> so plenty of time to hit up a 8pm CHC
[14:38] <snap-l> Yeah, usually we're done with Trick or Treating by 8pm
[14:39] <snap-l> 7:40pm+ is usally when the teenagers are out
[14:40] <brousch> One hour? WTF
[14:40] <snap-l> brousch: kids are bored with halloween 15 seconds after their first house
[14:41] <snap-l> it's scientifically proven
[14:41] <brousch> hah
[14:41] <brousch> Must be scientists without kids
[14:42] <brousch>  Ada 6:30-9:00pm Allegan 6:00-8:00pm Allendale- 5:00-8:00pm Battle Creek Caledonia 5:30-8:00pm Cedar Springs 5:30-8:00pm Comstock Park Dorr - 8:30 PM Fruitport (City and Townsip) 6:00-8:00pm Grand Haven 6:00-8:00pm Grand Rapids until 8:00pm Grandville Greenville 6:00-8:00pm Holland Howard City - 6PM to 8 PM Ionia 6:00-8:00pm Lowell 5:30-8:00pm Muskegon 6:00-8:00pm Ravenna 6:00-8:00pm Rockford 5:30-8:30pm Sparta 5:00-
[14:42] <snap-l> 5:30? Way too early.
[14:43] <brousch> My city doesn't actually set any hours
[14:44] <brousch> wow, Battle Creek is 6-10
[14:45] <snap-l> 10pm is way too late
[14:45] <rick_h_> yea, I think we go an hour later if it wasn't a school night
[14:46] <rick_h_> dammit, vbox is pissing me off today
[14:47] <rick_h_> https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/10085#comment:12 :(
[14:47] <brousch> Welcome to Oracle. How may we screw you?
[14:47] <snap-l> What's the problem?
[14:48] <rick_h_> I want to symlink my launchpad dir into the shared folder
[14:48] <rick_h_> and a security change in vbox prevents that
[14:48] <rick_h_> however, the override flag isn't working to let me do it either
[14:48] <rick_h_> because I want to open my launchpad code in vbox in a local gvim window
[14:48] <brousch> mount it
[14:49] <rick_h_> on top of that, nat won't work so doing bridged which is going to be a pita
[14:49] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, now I've got to setup nfs to share/etc on it grrr
[14:50] <snap-l> I'm surprised symlinks worked in the first place
[14:50] <snap-l> Seems like a problem looking to happen
[15:41] <snap-l> nice. locked my screen during upgradd, and now I can't access the box
[15:42] <snap-l> Ah, here we go
[15:42] <snap-l> God bless SSH on the phone.
[16:13] <snap-l> Completed the 11.10 to 12.04 upgrade
[16:14] <rick_h_> 12.10 12.10 12.10
[16:21] <greg-g> baby steps
[16:21] <greg-g> rick_h_: I might have a problem.
[16:21] <rick_h_> greg-g: ?
[16:21] <greg-g> rick_h_: I haven't even done anything with my hands/tools/wood, but, I was designing a living room table to make with hand tools all last night in my head
[16:21] <rick_h_> greg-g: :)
[16:22] <rick_h_> I'm really bummed to be away from the house for all these travel days without any woodworking :(
[16:22] <greg-g> I bet
[16:22] <rick_h_> I loaded up my nexus 7 with some woodworking books hoping the color/etc give me some good reading stuff in no added space
[16:29] <jcastro_> rick_h_: you using any snazzy smart powerstrips?
[16:39] <snap-l> http://shirt.thatdailydeal.com/home.php?id=23458
[16:44] <rick_h_> jcastro_: just one of those fold up ones
[16:44] <rick_h_> jcastro_: and a universal adapter
[16:44] <rick_h_> jcastro_: or you mean at the house? no, nothing fancy here
[16:45] <jcastro_> I think I'm going to get one for my setup
[16:45] <jcastro_> so like when my PC is shut off everything else is shut off too
[16:45] <rick_h_> yea, I just don't turn stuff off enough
[16:46] <jcastro_> I'm going to be religious about it
[16:46] <jcastro_> I mean, I have to reset it all up anyway
[16:46] <jcastro_> might as well do it right
[16:46] <rick_h_> right
[16:52] <snap-l> jcastro_: Honestly, I don't trust those types of power strips
[16:52] <snap-l> if they're too cheap in how they sense things, you'll be turning your strip off for a power dip or some other thing
[16:53] <jcastro_> well I won't be going bargain on them
[16:53] <jcastro_> which is why I am asking around
[16:53] <jcastro_> apparently the cheap ones don't work
[16:53] <snap-l> That's the first thing I turn off on my UPS
[16:54] <snap-l> I don't want some plug being in control of what I can or cannot power.
[16:57] <jcastro_> well, if it works I don't mind
[16:57] <jcastro_> to turn off like monitors and stuff
[16:57] <jcastro_> not like other PCs, that would be crazy
[17:49] <rick_h_> jcastro_: do you use VBox in 12.10?
[17:50] <juped> hi.
[17:51] <rick_h_> hey juped
[17:53] <juped> how are you?
[17:55] <rick_h_> good stuff
[17:57] <juped> cool.
[17:57] <juped> I'm sad I was out of town for the ubuntu release meet up :|
[17:57] <brousch> Well get your priorities straight next time!
[17:57] <jcastro_> rick_h_: no, I don't need to use virtualization often, when I do I just use kvm/testdrive
[17:57] <juped> heh.. basically.
[17:58] <rick_h_> jcastro_: k, yea there's some borkness I think in 12.10 :(
[18:02] <jcastro_> :-/
[18:03] <rick_h_> should have stuck with lxc I guess but another dev hit an issue there as well. Ugh setting up Launchpad for dev is a pita :P
[18:04] <brousch> vagrant
[18:05] <rick_h_> is just virtualbox :P
[18:05] <brousch> true
[18:05] <brousch> You should sit on LTS and run flaky new stuff in VMs
[18:06] <rick_h_> well trying to run flaky and keep the LTS in a VM
[18:06] <brousch> See, you're doing it wrong
[18:07] <jrwren> can't you use kvm as vagrant backend?
[18:08] <rick_h_> jrwren: did that ever get released? I know they were working on it
[18:10] <jrwren> no idea.
[18:10] <jrwren> if it isn't libvirt based, it ain't worht using ;p
[18:10] <rick_h_> I know he was working on reworking it to be backend agnostic, but sounded like he was going to be a LOT of work and kept getting delayed
[18:17] <rick_h_> hmm, can you change the hud off of windows key?
[18:18] <rick_h_> I can't seem to find it in the keyboard shortcuts control in unity
[18:25] <rick_h_> oh lovely...ec2 down and my machines went with it
[18:25] <rick_h_> and I leave for a plane in 20minutes
[18:25] <rick_h_> yay for timing!
[18:26] <brousch> EBS is down
[18:26] <rick_h_> this irc is running on the db server so that's still up yay
[18:27] <rick_h_> bookie might be down a bit if I have to do some clean up once things are back...and I land...and all that jazz
[18:27] <brousch> Do it from over the Atlantic
[18:27] <jcastro_> rick_h_: hud? or dash?
[18:27] <jcastro_> hud is alt key
[18:29] <rick_h_> jcastro_: dash, I got it moved
[18:29] <rick_h_> jcastro_: found it in ccsm
[18:29] <rick_h_> jcastro_: trying to see if I can make unity somewhat livable since I might be around Mark some this time. He wasn't at Budapest so I didn't have to worry about it :/
[18:30] <jcastro_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105558/how-do-i-disable-the-super-key
[18:30] <jcastro_> does this still work?
[18:30] <jcastro_> is that what you did ^^ ?
[18:30] <rick_h_> jcastro_: yea, that's what I did
[18:30] <jcastro_> ok, good to know that still works
[18:30] <rick_h_> I just moved it to ctrl-space like my launcher I use
[18:31] <jcastro_> Someone told me synapse is getting good
[18:31] <jcastro_> I want to bind that someplace
[18:32] <rick_h_> I still just use gmrun for my needs when I'm in awesome
[18:33] <rick_h_> ok, well time to pack up and head to the airport. Wish my ec2 machine a healthy return without intervention and me a speedy trip through security.
[18:34] <brousch> Watch out for your cornhole
[18:34] <dzho> rick_h_: bon voyage
[18:34] <brousch> OMG Reddit is down too
[18:39] <juped> yeah saw that.
[18:39] <juped> meh
[18:39] <juped> I mean, what am I going to do through the rest of my work day..
[18:41] <snap-l> Reason 1020 why I hate using MySQL:
[18:41] <snap-l> Oracle is a registered trademark of Oracle Corporation and/or its
[18:41] <snap-l> affiliates. Other names may be trademarks of their respective
[18:41] <snap-l> owners.
[18:41] <snap-l> Thank you. I'm sure the other Oracles out there will be sure to keep this in mind
[18:42] <juped> heh
[19:16] <greg-g> snap-l: I generally hate the "other <whatevers> are <whatever> their respective owners."
[19:16] <greg-g> No. Fucking. Shit.
[19:17] <greg-g> Lawyers need to all stop what they're doing, think about the world for a second, then, go live on Mars.
[19:23] <dzho> then again, there's that conviction in Italy
[19:27] <greg-g> ?
[19:31] <dzho> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20025626
[19:35] <derekv> dzho: They can skip a step, I like it better when lawyers don't think about me.
[19:35] <snap-l> greg-g: Did you happen to catch the Music Manumit podcast I was on?
[19:35] <greg-g> I started listening but got distracted, still in my queue
[19:36] <snap-l> OK, cool
[19:37] <snap-l> I'm sure you'll roll your eyes a few times, but the gist is there. And I think it was a good discussion.
[19:42] <greg-g> :) cool
[19:43] <greg-g> unless you have time to be really careful with your wording, and probably take too long to answer a question, there will be compromises that necessitate an eye-roll ;)
[19:44] <snap-l> WEll, my basic gist is we've made enough of a mess of copyright that even the Library of Congress errs on the side of publishers
[19:44] <snap-l> even for matters of the public domain
[19:45] <snap-l> so removing -NC and -ND, saying "Copyright law covers that already" is pulling the rug out way too early.
[19:45] <snap-l> because folks don't study copyright law.
[19:51] <greg-g> LoC will always be risk adverse, it is a govt org run by govt lawyers
[19:54] <snap-l> Right, but if their aversion leads them to side with publishers, to me they're a barometer for ow risk-adverse I should be too
[20:00] <greg-g> nope, not at all
[20:01] <greg-g> unfortunately, making decisions in the world means you have to think for yourself and observe the world-view that others take and how that affects their decision making, and adjust accordingly
[20:01] <greg-g> I don't base my decisions on what the publishers do (think: the standard "you can't do shit" copyright blurb at the front of books)
[20:07] <snap-l> Right, but I trust the Library of Congress to "know better" about copyright
[20:08] <snap-l> since they're the arbiters of what is still under copyright or not
[20:08] <snap-l> If they're siding with publishers, we're screwed.
[20:10] <snap-l> Watching Dave Kellett talk on Twitter about how licensing some clips for his movie is going to cost 16K
[20:10] <snap-l> s/movie/documentary/
[20:12] <greg-g> why do you trust the LoC?
[20:13] <greg-g> they are not the arbitrar, the Copyright Office, under the guidance/rules of *congress* are the arbitrators
[20:13] <snap-l> So again, I didn't know that.
[20:13] <snap-l> I thought the LoC was the place where this stuff was registered at one point
[20:13]  * greg-g nods
[20:13] <brousch> I was reading LoC as "lines of code"
[20:13] <greg-g> heh
[20:14] <greg-g> snap-l: right, when we still had a "register or no (c)" rule (called, a formality) then to be (c) you had to send a copy to the LoC, where it was recorded at the Copyright Office
[20:14] <greg-g> now we don't have any formalities to receive (c) protection, so, no need to send anything
[20:15] <greg-g> but, they aren't in control of what is in copyright, just the records of when stuff was registered.
[20:15] <snap-l> OK, that makes sense
[20:15] <greg-g> (stuff is still registred, as you get statutory damages, instead of just actual, when you sue for (c) infringment)
[20:16] <greg-g> so, yes, shit is complex and stupid, but it doesn't mean we should be ok with it ;)
[20:16] <snap-l> Anywho, that's one of the eyeball rolling parts of Music Manumit. :)
[20:16] <greg-g> gotcha :)
[20:16] <snap-l> (of that episode)
[20:17] <snap-l> and again, my point being this stuff is (needlessly) complicated, so trying to find out whether a work is truly in the public domain is not as easy as taking a recording date and extrapolating
[20:18] <greg-g> true
[20:18] <snap-l> because the LoC's jukebox has items from 1905 marked as a going concern for Victor Records.
[20:18] <greg-g> oh, so, if you think "normal" copyright law is complex, sound if ULTRA MEGA SUPER effed up
[20:19] <snap-l> Yeah, because you get things like State copyright laws
[20:19] <greg-g> since, before 1976, it was subject to *state* copyright law (yep, there was such a thing) and pretty much every state had different rules
[20:19] <greg-g> :)
[20:19] <snap-l> Which is my case for CC keeping -NC and -ND
[20:19] <snap-l> We're not ready to remove them. :)
[20:20] <greg-g> I don't like the "shit is complex, let's keep restrictiveness" logic, there's a step there I don't understand
[20:20] <snap-l> If you want to call it the "sharing" license, fine.
[20:20] <greg-g> (tobeclear: I don't like it because I don't understand the link between the two)
[20:20] <greg-g> brb, (sorry) :)
[20:21] <snap-l> The step is there needs to be an area that can explicitly tell people what they can and cannot do with a sound recording
[20:21] <snap-l> (np)
[20:21] <snap-l> And Creative Commons currently fills that gap
[20:21] <snap-l> Because regular copyright does not make that clear at all
[20:22] <snap-l> If a band releases an album as "do whatever", and then decides later "Um, no", then where do I fall?
[20:23] <greg-g> then they're dumb
[20:23] <greg-g> (the band)
[20:24] <greg-g> also, it's kind of a mistatement (that I perpetuate) that CC licenses tell you what you can and can not do with something. That only goes so far, there is still fair use, which is HUGE
[20:25] <greg-g> and, my logic says that since fair use permits most of what the NC/ND licenses do, they're superfluous
[20:25] <greg-g> yes, there are corner cases, but /me shrugs
[20:28] <snap-l> then how do I tell the difference between a band that has a permissive view of their music and one that does not?
[20:28] <snap-l> if I play Metallica on my podcast, they're going to be far more aggressive than a band like The Neologist
[20:29] <snap-l> CC in this case shows me what a band is OK with when I use their music
[20:30] <snap-l> And not every metal band out there is OK with folks remixing or using their music commercially
[20:30] <snap-l> (The Neologist is one that isn't bothered by that, but they're a rarity)
[20:37] <greg-g> snap-l: it doesn't matter what view they have
[20:38] <greg-g> how copyright law is enforced in the court of law is not influenced by the artists' perception of (c)
[20:39] <snap-l> Yes, but my pocketbook is influenced if I have to go to court to defend it.
[20:40] <waldo323_> don't let your pocketbook get influenced
[20:41] <greg-g> snap-l: yeah, (c) system fail
[20:41] <greg-g> I wish I could finde my wallet (true story)
[20:41] <snap-l> greg-g: heh