[06:30] <len-dt> ailo-w,  I think I just stomped on you wiki edit... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PreliminaryBlueprintsDraft1304
[06:35] <len-dt> Fixed
[06:35] <len-dt> GN
[06:54] <ailo-w> GN len-dt 
[12:05] <smartboyhw> Hmm scott-work should be here soon since that he sent an email to the dev list just noew
[13:09] <smartboyhw> Yeah scott-work is here! Hi scott-work how are ya? 
[13:11] <scott-work> good morning smartboyhw. i am well. how are you?
[13:11] <smartboyhw> scott-work, good:D BTW maybe you should go and make an announcement for Studio 12.10 on the users mail list? There isn't one:P
[13:14] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i will do that this afternoon, along with other posts in other social media
[13:15] <knome> hey scott-work :)
[13:15] <scott-work> although anyone can do this really, but i am planning on doing it this afternoon (for reals)
[13:15] <smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
[13:16] <knome> scott-work, you busy, or have a few mins?
[13:17] <scott-work> i have a few knome
[13:17] <knome> great, i'll pm
[13:29] <smartboyhw> scott-work, what do you think about the blueprints that ailo-w listed on the mailing lists and on the wiki?
[14:14] <scott-work> some news about ubuntu studio 12.10:  https://plus.google.com/u/0/110953740010395822648/posts/iri2qMM6Hwn
[14:14] <scott-work> well, mainly screenshots actually
[14:16] <smartboyhw> scott-work, :D
[14:21] <drupin> hey smartboyhw how ya 
[14:22] <smartboyhw> drupin, hey
[14:22] <drupin> how you learn to write such nice articles
[14:22] <drupin> i am impressed
[14:22] <smartboyhw> drupin, next time don't ask things on the 20th about things that have been done on 11th:D
[14:22] <smartboyhw> drupin, a lot of english learning
[14:22] <drupin> 20th 11th?
[14:23] <drupin> are this test time sensetive
[14:23] <smartboyhw> drupin, you asked about 12.10 testing on 20th:P
[14:23] <smartboyhw> drupin, yes it is
[14:23] <drupin> yes
[14:23] <drupin> ok i will follow it now
[14:23] <smartboyhw> drupin, it got released on the 18th :P NO ISOs to be tested from you now:P
[14:24] <drupin> now i have to wait 6 months
[14:24] <smartboyhw> drupin, NO NO NO
[14:24] <drupin> then
[14:24] <smartboyhw> drupin, wait till Raring Alpha 1:D
[14:24] <smartboyhw> drupin, I will tell you when you can test
[14:25] <drupin> ok thanks 
[14:25] <drupin> i am trying to understand the maling list..  
[14:25] <drupin> but it goes over my head
[14:27] <smartboyhw> drupin, is it THAT difficult?
[14:35] <drupin> trying to
[14:35] <holstein> drupin: for testing, you mean?.. its a bit odd, but the qa tests lay it out
[14:35] <holstein> drupin: you have seen that page, correct?
[14:35] <smartboyhw> holstein, welcome:D
[14:35] <drupin> which
[14:36] <holstein> theres testing, which you can just do, and is always helpful and apprectiated.. but there are the qa tests that we *must* do
[14:37] <holstein> drupin: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ for example
[14:37] <drupin> ok
[14:38] <holstein> drupin: if you take into account bandwidth, it could take a long time to do these tests
[14:38] <holstein> drupin: and it cant be with just any iso.. it *must* be the iso mentioned
[14:39] <holstein> drupin: its a good idea to check here, or in the appropriate *-dev channel.. or #ubuntu-testing and make sure (courteously) which iso is to be tested
[14:39] <smartboyhw> drupin, I think the raring images will come up soon
[14:39] <drupin> ok
[14:39] <holstein> keeping in mind that #ubuntu-testing is for *all* the isos... not just ubuntustudio... so its not a place to be even slightly impatient
[14:39] <smartboyhw> good tutorial holstein :P
[14:40] <holstein> the test cases are laid out.. and i like to check in here and make sure im using the proper isos...
[14:40] <drupin> i look forward for Stdio so far..
[14:40] <drupin> as other iso may have bigger teams
[14:40] <holstein> i did tests once.. spenct a few hours... and i had the old builds.. there had been a fixed pushed out while i was tesing...
[14:40] <smartboyhw> drupin, you're correct. We do have the smallest teams
[14:40] <holstein> i had to start over... which was fine, but i had "wasted" a little time on the wrong iso, because i got started offline and didnt check in with the dev team here
[14:41] <smartboyhw> holstein, that always happened to me:P
[14:41] <holstein> when i was testing last time, i was dropping the url here and asking len-dt which he was testing, to make sure i had the proper one
[14:41] <holstein> drupin: if i see that all the ubuntustudio test cases are done, and the xubuntu ones are not, i will hop over and help with the xubuntu ones... 
[14:42]  * smartboyhw always got nuts testing in the final moments of a release
[14:42] <smartboyhw> drupin, I do all testcases if I had the ability too
[14:42] <holstein> smartboyhw: its a frantic time.. for sure
[14:42] <smartboyhw> holstein, ya I had much worse time than you in testing I thnk
[14:42] <holstein> drupin: all that being said.. loading up the iso, any iso and just testing things is and can be helpful... if you plan to follow up with bug reports
[14:43] <holstein> coming in here or the main support channel and saying "foo is broken" may or may not help
[14:43] <holstein> there is a case on the mailing list where the memory test is allegedly broken
[14:43] <smartboyhw> holstein, I want to give drupin a try on QA shall I?
[14:43] <holstein> there is no bug report i can find.. just a random statement on the list
[14:44] <holstein> if i want to follow up, i have to try and just start cold, and reproduce an error..
[14:44] <holstein> all i have done so far is use the memtest, and it worked for me
[14:44] <holstein> i have no further idea about what could be causing the issue
[14:44] <holstein> that user may say "you guys didnt do anything when i said memtest was broken"
[14:44] <smartboyhw> drupin, try the Ubuntu Studio builds in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds don't worry about messing it up, these ISOs are not the important ones for now (will be important 3-4 months later I think)
[14:45] <holstein> but, actually.. not enough was dont constructively to help after testing and alledgedly discovering the memtest was broken
[14:45] <holstein> was done*
[14:46] <holstein> anyways... im just saying, testing constructively can be time consuming, and is *greatly* appreciated, and can be as simple or as envolved as you have time for
[14:46] <smartboyhw> Yes:D
[14:46] <smartboyhw> holstein, let me put it in my open week session about QA three days later:P
[14:47] <holstein> hehe... anytime is a good time for education!
[14:47] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:47] <smartboyhw> drupin, still awake?
[14:50] <smartboyhw> holstein, your lecture scared drupin away:P
[14:51] <holstein> well.. its better to know now that to get in the water and get swept away :)
[14:51] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:52] <holstein> its not clear.. the testing stuff
[14:52] <holstein> even after i was told about the QA.. i still didnt get it... 
[14:53] <smartboyhw> drupin, please go to #ubuntu-classroom and #ubuntu-classroom-chat on 25th Oct 14:00 UTC there is going to be Ubuntu Open Week and I will be holding a session about QA. Come and you will learn
[14:53] <smartboyhw> holstein, well in some terms testing is contained in QA
[14:54] <holstein> sure, but when i heard "we need help testing the iso" my first reaction was "ive use the iso..."
[14:54] <holstein> and i said somewhere.. "its good!".. not knowing that that really is not constructive
[14:54] <smartboyhw> QA doesn't mean only ISO testing, it can also mean Checkbox, UTAH (automation), packages
[14:54] <holstein> sure.. and we have some nice tests in there now... very relevant... but the goal is to have our iso released without major errors
[14:55] <smartboyhw> holstein, yes :D
[14:56] <smartboyhw> holstein, my longest post EVER on Ubuntu Forums
[14:57] <smartboyhw> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2072846
[14:58] <holstein> smartboyhw: *very* nice!
[14:58] <smartboyhw> holstein, :) I spend half an hour bolding and adding hyperlikns to text....Really boring:P
[14:59] <holstein> smartboyhw: i appreciate your time with it.. im going to bookbmark that.. maybe copy it to some blogpost (and credit you, of course!)
[14:59] <smartboyhw> holstein, IDK you HAVE a blog:P
[15:00] <holstein> i dont keep it up.. i need to separate out a tech blog though
[15:00] <smartboyhw> holstein, where IS the blog? Let me bookmark it too
[15:01] <holstein> i have mikeholstein.info right now.. its horribly out of date though, and i dont keep up my calendar
[15:02] <holstein> ive just been too busy lately.. though things should calm down for me mid november... and i want to take a week or so off in january
[15:02] <smartboyhw> holstein, :D
[15:02] <holstein> its hard for me to vacation as a self-employed musican
[15:03] <smartboyhw> holstein, yeah. Easy for me since I am a student!
[15:03] <holstein> well, thats not "easy" though, by any means.. enjoy it though... i think its less complicated
[15:03] <smartboyhw> holstein, :D
[15:18] <falktx> hey scott-work
[15:19] <falktx> scott-work: I was thinking about pushing my little cadence tools in the US-dev PPA for later testing and discussion
[15:20] <falktx> I want to discuss it in the ML, so having it in the ppa ready to test seems like a nice idea to me
[15:20] <smartboyhw> Hey falktx welcome
[15:20] <falktx> hey smartboyhw
[15:20] <smartboyhw> falktx, I thought you mean to put the cadence tools in the ISOs for Raring right?
[15:21] <falktx> I still need to change the code to be easily extendable (like add new tweaks and system checks), but a simple demo for now will be nice
[15:23] <smartboyhw> falktx, ooh:P are you in the ubuntustudio-dev team?
[15:23] <ailo> falktx: Why not just create a new PPA in your name?
[15:23] <ailo> Not that it matters to me
[15:24] <ailo> They are your applications after all
[15:24] <smartboyhw> falktx, yeah create a ppa, and let us test it
[15:24] <smartboyhw> falktx, that ubuntustudio-dev ppa is EXTREMELY OUTDATED\
[15:27] <falktx> yeah it is...
[15:27] <falktx> I just wanted it to be a little bit more official
[15:29] <smartboyhw> falktx, er....real weird
[15:31] <ailo> falktx: The applications you have created have been designed by you, for your purposes. I don't believe I have seen any discussion on decision making whether to include those applications in Ubuntu Studio. Not saying I'm against it. Just saying, it's not something that has been discussed AFAIK.
[15:31] <ailo> falktx: That's why, at this stage, I consider them your applications, and that it would be good to start testing them in order to give you feedback
[15:32] <falktx> ailo: yeah I know, that's why I wanted a discussion - so I can still change them to better suit US purposes
[15:32] <ailo> falktx: If it so happens, that something is very useful, maybe people will have opinions on changes, etc
[15:32] <ailo> Right
[15:33] <falktx> I'll finish some things for today and upload to a new (mine) PPA later
[15:33] <falktx> then I'll post something on the ML
[15:34] <smartboyhw> falktx, I will test it tmr hopefully. Is it for Quantal or?
[15:34] <falktx> quantal, yes
[15:34] <smartboyhw> falktx, OK then I will test it tmr
[15:34] <falktx> cool
[15:34] <ailo> falktx: I'll like to test them as well, and I'm sure at least len-dt will be on it too
[15:35] <falktx> ailo: did you ever started your version of *-controls?
[15:35] <ailo> falktx: Not really. I've just scrambled some resources.
[15:36] <smartboyhw> Anyway gotcha go bye guys see you tmr
[15:36] <ailo> falktx: I might still do it, even if it won't end up as -controls. Or, if your apps are great, I might have some ideas for your stuff
[15:36] <ailo> Not in a hurry to do anything right now. I have a huge puredata project under way, which I hope I can finish before I grow old
[15:37] <ailo> As soon as that is done, I'll have more time for Ubuntu Studio, and many other things
[15:38] <ailo> falktx: One of the primary functions I pictured for controls was administering realtime privilege for users
[15:40] <scott-work> falktx: that sounds like a good idea and might encourage testing
[15:42] <falktx> ailo: I have a sort-of-API for the system tweaks:
[15:42] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/paste/zGnDi
[15:42]  * scott-work just starting reading the part where ailo comments and stops to consider
[15:43] <falktx> scott-work: so using the us-dev ppa for this is ok with you?
[15:43] <ailo> falktx: Yea, the system check
[15:46] <ailo> falktx: Would be great to have a function where you can add users to audio group (sometimes you have more than one user on a system), and also, making sure the PAM file is in place
[15:46] <ailo> Actually, I still need to look at making any new user belong to audio group by default, on Ubuntu Studio..
[15:47] <scott-work> falktx: i think ailo makes good points, it would be pretty misleading to use the ubuntustudio-dev ppa for testing this since it isn't in ubuntu studio, it may be some time before it gets into ubuntu, and we may have our own tools by then
[15:47] <falktx> ailo: I think root actions should only be recommended, not handled by this application. introducing sudo/kdesudio/gksu in the app is something I'll try NOT to do
[15:47] <scott-work> sorry to reverse what i said
[15:47] <falktx> ailo: but the PAM stuff is useful (one more reason to make a real API of this, so we can easily add more checks)
[15:48] <falktx> scott-work: no prob, I understand. but then I'll be counting on your opinions on it ;)
[15:49] <ailo> falktx: Why not use gksu? We've been considering other things, that would require it. System tweaks
[15:50] <ailo> Well, me and len-dt, that is
[15:50] <falktx> ailo: it's kind of a security risk. and I hate when regular apps ask my password, they shouldn't do that
[15:50] <ailo> falktx: Just keep it as a separate process
[15:51] <falktx> also, it's very hard to properly do sudo actions
[15:51] <ailo> No need for password, until you hit apply
[15:51] <falktx> there's gksu, gksudo, kdesu, kdesudo, and others
[15:51] <falktx> and then in some distros the sudo actions don't have access to X
[15:52] <falktx> (opensuse)
[15:53] <falktx> I think policy-kit is able to handle root permissions directly, but I never understood how it works
[15:53] <ailo> Aha. Never looked into that. 
[15:54] <ailo> scott-work: Busy time? Don't want to stress you, but I guess we've been wondering a little about next cycle and the degree of your commitment. Maybe you're preparing to tell us something about that already?
[15:55] <ailo> scott-work: Hopefully you feel ok with how things are progressing so far.
[15:57] <ailo> scott-work: And about the blueprints. Nothing is carved in stone. I think we are going towards the same goal all the time, and keeping some options open
[15:57] <ailo> As always, it remains to be seen what actually gets accomplished for each cycle :)
[15:58] <scott-work> ailo: i responded to your email this morning
[15:58] <ailo> scott-work: Oh. Damn. I have missed it
[15:58] <ailo> Let me look
[15:58] <scott-work> i will be involved in development this cycle, i already have a list that i will be posting to the mailing list and adding it to the wiki page
[15:59] <scott-work> ailo: i am hoping that a small group (or an open meeting would be okay) can get together and roadmap the next few cycles, pushing reasonable goals for each cycle
[15:59] <ailo> scott-work: Allright. Sounds good to me
[16:00] <scott-work> if the people who have been helping with testing hold the same, i hope that you, len, micah, and i can get some good things done development-wise
[16:00] <scott-work> i would like astraljava to be involved but i understand that he is busy of late, so i wasn't really considering his involvement at this time
[16:01] <ailo> scott-work: I'm really hoping the same. I feel really motivated, but also a bit held back by "higher" priorities
[16:01] <scott-work> understandable
[16:01] <scott-work> hopefully we can also prioritize the items for R and make sure we get the important stuff done instead of just the easy tasks :P
[16:01]  * micahg has archivey type things that he wants to do for US, like get rid of python-support
[16:02]  * scott-work isn't implying that others haven't done hard or difficult work and only cherry-picked the easy stuff
[16:02] <scott-work> or doens't mean to imply, at least
[16:05] <ailo> scott-work: Well, let's see how things progress. I'll be looking forward to next cycle development, and am glad you're being more active again. I was prepared to help in that respect, but was actually not looking forward to it, because of lack of time
[16:05] <ailo> If we had more people, we'd have less tasks, per person
[16:05] <ailo> And that would mean, more focus on single tasks
[16:06] <scott-work> aye, very true
[16:07] <scott-work> but i am very happy and thankful for the people we do have at this time
[16:07] <scott-work> a year ago (or so) it was very different
[16:11] <ailo> Yea, it feels better now. But, it could be a lot better too
[16:12] <ailo> The world needs to breed more linux multimedia develipers
[18:43] <holstein> scott-work: do we have a blog? and ubuntustudio blog?
[18:44] <holstein> i would like to have a place wherea certain number of us could post things
[18:44] <holstein> i would like to push that into the ubuntu weekly newsletter more regularly
[18:46] <scott-work> holstein: we do have the website we _should_ be posting news :/
[18:46] <holstein> scott-work: i thought this would be easier
[18:46] <holstein> i could just add admins to a blogspot blog
[18:47] <scott-work> we could, i wonder what ailo or len think about this?
[18:47] <holstein> well, they dont need to really think about it
[18:47] <holstein> i can start one, you can contribute.. if they want to contribute they can
[18:47] <scott-work> we probably also should ask about who would post there and if there is an active supply of people who will post
[18:48] <holstein> you can cross post relevant posts from your blog
[18:48] <ailo> We could have the front page of ubuntustudio.org display headers to news postings?
[18:48] <holstein> i can add anyone with a gmail account easily
[18:48] <ailo> But, I don't think we can have too much news anyhow
[18:48] <holstein> i personally dont want to clutter up the site too much
[18:50] <ailo> It's fairly common to have recent news headers on a front page
[18:50] <ailo> Like: new release out, etc
[18:50] <holstein> sure.. i just dont look there for them.. but im not saying no
[18:50] <holstein> im just saying, i dont want to change the site right now today
[18:50] <holstein> i can get my mind around this.. makind a blogspot blog
[18:51] <holstein> add interested users
[18:51] <ailo> The home page is probably the most active page. A blog may not attract as much attention, not saying it's not useful
[18:51] <holstein> add the blogs to the newletter
[18:51] <ailo> ubuntustudio.org is WP, so posting news is in a sence blogging
[18:51] <holstein> ailo: my goal is not to attract users to the site though, necessarily
[18:51] <holstein> i want to have a nice, easy, clean place for *anyone* to post.. and that can become news for the newsletter
[18:52] <holstein> more to raise awarness and just be in the news
[18:52] <ailo> If there is a separate blog, we need to link to it from the homepage, if it's official
[18:52] <holstein> ailo: i had no plans for it to be "official"
[18:52] <ailo> holstein: In that case, I think it's really up to you
[18:52] <holstein> "over at ubuntustudio unofficial news alio talks about the upcoming release af ardour3... ubuntustudio is awesome"
[18:52] <holstein> ^^ sample headline
[18:54] <holstein> i could just add a google alert for "ubuntustudio"
[18:55] <holstein> but, i was thinking more about fabricating news
[18:56] <ailo> holstein: For that kind of thing, I expect you are the right man for the job. 
[18:56] <holstein> fabricating news ;)
[18:56] <holstein> i just want us to have more mind-share
[18:57] <ailo> If it's not official, there's no limitation to who could be involved. Doesn't even need to be limited to Ubuntu Studio, as long as it's about multimedia on Linux. In one way or another, it's relevant also to Ubuntu Studio
[18:58] <ailo> holstein: What would you call the blog?
[18:58] <holstein> yup, thats what i was thinking... the newletter is weekly
[18:58] <holstein> i was thinking 4 or 5 of us could just post what we are doing regularly and it would be enough to include
[18:59] <holstein> ailo: im open to suggestions on the name... maybe i should revive the opensourcemusians blog for this
[18:59] <holstein> bbs..
[19:00] <ailo> That is a suiting name. I also don't see any problem with using the Ubuntu Studio name, in one way or another
[19:05] <ailo> holstein: If you take the lead, and manage it, I'm sure there are lot's of people around who would be interested in contributing. If it's relaxed, posts don't need to be that specific either.
[19:06] <ailo> I'm turning the lights off now. New day tomorrow
[19:18] <holstein> ailo: GN.. im going to check with the osmp guys about reviving that current blog for this
[19:55] <len-dt> falktx, polkit is not all that hard to use. The docs are not that nice, but there are enough examples for anything I have tried.
[19:56] <len-dt> I put together a script to change runlevels within RL 2-5. without having to put a password in every time.
[19:58] <len-dt> It calls telinit put doesn't allow anyway of restarting init or rereading init's config.
[19:59] <len-dt> falktx  restarting init on ubuntu restarts upstart which can break upstart which is why I made a wrapper for it to just allow RL 2-5
[19:59] <len-dt> in a stock system changing among those levels does nothing.
[20:02] <len-dt> but I set up the run levels so that RL 3 is audio clean. CPU governing to performance, cron and friends off, My wireless kernel mod unloaded (xrun per  minute otherwise) and any other high memory use services off too (mysql comes to mind).
[20:03] <falktx> nice
[20:03] <falktx> I'll need to take another shot at it some time
[20:03] <len-dt> I have a systray icon that activates it
[20:03] <len-dt> The icon changes depending on what mode I am in.
[20:04] <len-dt> That part just uses alltray and tcl/tk
[20:04] <len-dt> I want to move it to python
[20:04] <falktx> tcl, ouch
[20:05] <len-dt> Its what I know :)
[20:12] <len-dt> What I liked about tcl/tk is that I learned it a long time ago and everything I learned still works. All the scripts a wrote still work with zero maintenance.
[20:16] <len-dt> ailo,  (when you wake up :)  Take a quick look at the list for a thread "color management".  Maybe audio is not the only thing that needs controls.
[21:47] <scott-work> anyone going to be at UDS-R ? 
[21:52] <knome> scott-work, yes ;>
[21:52] <knome> scott-work, a lot of people actually...
[21:53]  * knome trollface
[21:57] <scott-work> hehe
[21:57] <scott-work> i meant someone who might represent ubuntu studio for the email about doing the flavour presentation
[21:58] <scott-work> i just thought of another way, if no one is going. i suppose a presentation could be a pre-recorded video (but aren't all videos pre-recorded :P )
[21:59] <knome> i can. i'll just tell them ubuntu studio is going to be merged with xubuntu, and that all donations and idolizing should be directed to me.
[21:59] <knome> does that sound like a plan?
[22:01] <knome> anyway, i got to go. if that sounds good to you, send me an email with a cheque of $50,000,00 to cover the preparation for the presentation
[22:02] <knome> see you ;)
[22:05] <scott-work> lol, what donations is that?
[22:07] <scott-work> len-dt: or ailo, someone asked me about the xfce plugin for cpu scaling (http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin) . i remember discussions about cpu scaling but i don't know enough to answer if we should include this as default or not
[22:07] <scott-work> but i am leaving work now, so i'll ask again tomorrow