gurulenindhana from?12:36
dhanasekaran1gurulenin: india12:36
dhanasekaran1gurulenin: u?12:37
guruleninTamil Nadu12:37
dhanasekaran1gurulenin: chennai..12:37
dhanasekaran1gurulenin: Good, class started at 8.30 indian time right12:38
guruleninIs it? or 6.30?12:40
dhanasekaran1gurulenin: sorry 18:30 IST12:41
=== fouad_ is now known as Fo2adZz
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Development Team - Instructors: dholbach
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.13:00
dholbachBefore we start here are a very few organisational things:13:01
dholbach - logs will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html and at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek later on13:01
dholbach - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek should give you some good idea what's going to happen in the next few days13:01
dholbach - if you just joined in, please also make sure you join #ubuntu-classroom-chat which is where we all talk and where you can ask questions13:02
dholbach - if you ask questions, please prefix them with QUESTION: so they stand out and I can pick them up more easily13:02
dholbachthanks everyone! :=)13:02
dholbachMy name is Daniel Holbach, I've been involved with Ubuntu since 4.10 and joined Canonical about 7 years ago. The Ubuntu Community is very close to my heart and I try to help everyone get involved in Ubuntu development.13:03
dholbachGetting Started with Ubuntu Development is what I'll talk about today and I welcome you all to ask all the questions you have.13:03
dholbachI'll try to zip through some of the basics quickly and I hope we'll have some time later on to fix a bug together. :-)13:03
dholbachAll right...13:04
* dholbach takes a deep breath13:04
dholbachLet's start. :-)13:04
dholbachUbuntu is made up of thousands of different components, written in many different programming languages. Every component - be it a software library, a tool or a graphical application - is available as a source package. Source packages in most cases consist of two parts: the actual source code and metadata.13:04
dholbachMetadata includes the dependencies of the package, copyright and licensing information, and instructions on how to build the package. Once this source package is compiled, the build process provides binary packages, which are the .deb files users can install.13:04
dholbachEvery time a new version of an application is released, or when someone makes a change to the source code that goes into Ubuntu, the source package must be uploaded to Launchpad’s build machines to be compiled.13:05
dholbachThe resulting binary packages then are distributed to the archive and its mirrors in different countries. The URLs in /etc/apt/sources.list point to an archive or mirror.13:05
dholbachEvery day (and during release times, more often) CD images are built for a selection of different Ubuntu flavours. Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu and others specify a list of required packages that get on the CD. These CD images are then used for installation tests and provide the feedback for further release planning.13:05
dholbachAny questions so far?13:05
dholbachOk, let's talk a bit about our release cycle then.13:06
dholbachUbuntu’s development is very much dependent on the current stage of the release cycle. We release a new version of Ubuntu every six months, which is only possible because we have established strict freeze dates.13:06
dholbachWith every freeze date that is reached developers are expected to make fewer, less intrusive changes.13:07
dholbachFeature Freeze is the first big freeze date after the first half of the cycle has passed. At this stage features must be largely implemented.13:07
dholbachThe rest of the cycle is supposed to be focused on fixing bugs. After that the user interface, then the documentation, the kernel, etc. are frozen, then the beta release is put out which receives a lot of testing. From the beta release onwards, only critical bugs get fixed and a release candidate release is made and if it does not contain any serious problems, it becomes the final release.13:07
dholbachIf you want to get an idea for how this looks visually, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule - it's the release schedule for Ubuntu 12.10, which just got released last week.13:07
dholbachThe release cycle also has an impact on what we ask developers (new or old) to focus on. In the beginning we try to merge as many upstream (more about Upstreams in just a bit) changes as possible, so we can get as much testing and stabilisation as possible and just do bug fixes towards the end of the release.13:09
ClassBotMestreLion asked: does interface freeze comes *after* feature freeze?13:09
dholbachMestreLion, good question - yes, feature freeze is mostly about getting the functionality of the feature ready - it doesn't need to be pixel-perfect and the look can still be changed based on testing13:10
dholbachUser Interface (UI) Freeze is very important because it has an impact on for example the Docs team or the press, because they take screen shots around beta time already so they have everything in place before the release13:11
dholbachHope that answered the question.13:11
dholbachThousands of source packages, billions of lines of code, hundreds of contributors require a lot of communication and planning to maintain high standards of quality.13:11
dholbachAt the beginning of each release cycle we have the Ubuntu Developer Summit where developers and contributors come together to plan the features of the next releases.13:12
dholbachThis time the Ubuntu Developer Summit (UDS) is going to be in Copenhagen, Denmark.13:12
dholbachSo if you're in the area from 29th Oct - 1st Nov, make sure you drop by.13:12
dholbachhttps://uds.ubuntu.com/ has more info.13:12
dholbachEvery feature is discussed by its stakeholders and a specification is written that contains detailed information about its assumptions, implementation, the necessary changes in other places, how to test it and so on.13:12
dholbachThis is all done in an open and transparent fashion, so even if you cannot attend the event in person, you can participate remotely and listen to a streamcast, chat with attendants and subscribe to changes of specifications, so you are always up to date.13:12
dholbachFrom the site I mentioned above you can also get to the schedule of UDS and subscribe to sessions and you get notified about the outcomes, etc.13:13
dholbachMore questions?13:13
dholbachOk. I promised to talk a bit more about Upstream projects, let's talk about it next then. :)13:14
dholbachNot every single change can be discussed in a meeting though, particularly because Ubuntu relies on changes that are done in other projects.13:14
dholbachThat is why contributors to Ubuntu constantly stay in touch. Most teams or projects use dedicated mailing lists to avoid too much unrelated noise. For more immediate coordination, developers and contributors use Internet Relay Chat (IRC). All discussions are open and public.13:15
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Mark Shuttleworth announced recently some "secret" projects that he intends to invite trusted people to help create/test. How will those projects be discussed openly if at all at UDS?13:15
dholbachIdleOne just added:13:16
dholbach<IdleOne> dholbach: if that question would be better for mark at his session I am fine with waiting for an answer :)13:16
dholbachYes, it's a good question for Mark, but I'll try to answer it myself as well.13:16
dholbachThere are indeed projects originating within the Design team where just a few people are involved in the beginning.13:16
dholbachThis team has had non-Canonical involvement in the past already, but there were complaints that it wasn't open enough13:17
dholbachMark's recent blog post tried to find a way to open the team up slowly13:17
dholbachIn a way, you give the project some time to mature, before you announce it and when you have something to show13:18
dholbachThat's my understanding of it anyway. :)13:18
ClassBotMestreLion asked: I assume the projects discussed at UDS are the ones that Ubuntu/Canonical is the upstream, like Unity, correct?13:19
dholbachMestreLion, they will be discussed, yes - but a lot of other projects will be discussed as well13:19
dholbachIn a little bit I will talk a bit more about other Open Source projects which are integrated in Ubuntu, where Ubuntu engineers help out and collaborate and where we invite members of those projects to UDS to find out more about the next steps.13:20
dholbachOk, a few more words about communication in the project and with other projects:13:21
dholbachAnother important tool regarding communication is bug reports. Whenever a defect is found in a package or piece of infrastructure, a bug report is filed in Launchpad.13:21
dholbachAll information is collected in that report and its importance, status and assignee updated when necessary. This makes it an effective tool to stay on top of bugs in a package or project and organise the workload.13:21
dholbachMost of the software available through Ubuntu is not written by Ubuntu developers themselves. Most of it is written by developers of other Open Source projects and then integrated into Ubuntu.13:21
dholbachThese projects are called “Upstreams”, because their source code flows into Ubuntu, where we “just” integrate it. The relationship to Upstreams is critically important to Ubuntu.13:22
dholbachIt is not just code that Ubuntu gets from Upstreams, but it is also that Upstreams get users, bug reports and patches from Ubuntu (and other distributions).13:22
dholbachI hope this clarifies a bit how we work together with Upstream projects and how the interaction looks like. I'll go into a bit more detail in a bit. Any more questions so far?13:23
dholbach<dhanasekaran1> dholbach: you are the mentioned thousand packages source to deb process, which tool you guys using.. build process done by launchpad build machine or custom build also accepet13:23
dholbachdhanasekaran1, good question - it's a bit hard to understand in the beginning, but it generally works like this:13:23
dholbachYou download the source of a package, make the necessary modifications, then do a local test-build (more about the tools we use later on), then you can upload it to Launchpad to get it to build there.13:24
dholbachThe short answer is: no, there are no custom builds.13:24
dholbachWe believe that exactly reproducible builds is the best for Ubuntu. Basically you upload the source, with your modifications and instructions to build it. Then the build will happen. So at every single stage in time, there's one version of a package in any release and the build results should be the same for everyone.13:25
dholbachThe most important Upstream for Ubuntu is Debian. Debian is the distribution that Ubuntu is based on and many of the design decisions regarding the packaging infrastructure are made there.13:27
dholbachTraditionally, Debian has always had dedicated maintainers for every single package or dedicated maintenance teams. In Ubuntu there are teams that have an interest in a subset of packages too, and naturally every developer has a special area of expertise, but participation (and upload rights) generally is open to everyone who demonstrates ability and willingness.13:27
dholbachGetting a change into Ubuntu as a new contributor is not as daunting as it seems and can be a very rewarding experience. It is not only about learning something new and exciting, but also about sharing the solution and solving a problem for millions of users out there.13:27
dholbachOpen Source Development happens in a distributed world with different goals and different areas of focus. For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream is interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, is interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix.13:28
dholbachThat is why we make use of “Distributed Development”, where code is being worked on in various branches that are merged with each other after code reviews and sufficient discussion.13:28
ClassBotvibhav asked: Is there any team which helps coordination between Upstream and Ubuntu?13:29
dholbachvibhav, nice one13:29
dholbachNo, there's not a dedicated team, but every team deals with their respective upstreams independently. Although the processes (for code inclusion, and forwarding of patches, etc.) are often quite similar.13:29
dholbachSo the Desktop team will for example deal with GNOME (which is the Upstream for many components of our Desktop), with X.org, with LibreOffice, the Unity team and many many others.13:30
dholbachThe Server team will be in close contact with Apache, with Postfix Upstream, OpenStack and many others.13:30
dholbachAs an individual with just an interest in one or two packages, you might be that link, that ambassador to Upstream.13:31
ClassBotsmartboyhw asked: dholbach you said the most important upstream project is Debian. I thought the most important upstream project is the Linux kernel. Am I wrong?13:31
dholbachsmartboyhw, that's an interesting question :)13:31
dholbachthe Linux kernel is without doubt a very important piece of Ubuntu (and every other Linux distribution)13:31
dholbachand it's unfair trying to pick "the most important" project13:32
dholbachthat's like picking your single best friend and making lots of other friends unhappy ;-)13:32
dholbachbut Ubuntu's case is special13:32
dholbachwe're not a regular distribution, but we're a distribution which is based on another one, Debian13:32
dholbachif we were a "regular distribution", we would deal with thousands of Upstream projects on our own13:33
dholbachbecause we are based and work closely with Debian we inherit lots of stellar work from another distribution13:33
dholbachand also inherit a lot of their design decisions13:33
dholbachyou will very often find that packages in Ubuntu are unmodified versions of the code in Debian, because the maintainers there do a great job and/or because we work together with them13:34
dholbachso you can see that our connection to Debian is indeed very special13:34
ClassBotvibhav asked: What does coordination between Upstream and Ubuntu involve? Is there way I can too contribute?13:34
dholbachperfect! :)13:34
dholbachso if we want to make sure that Ubuntu and the Upstream project get the most out of our work, we want the following:13:35
dholbach - have the best possible experience for our users (obviously)13:35
dholbach - the best possible version in Ubuntu (this sometimes does not necessarily need to be the newest - sometimes the most stable is preferrable :-))13:35
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
dholbachsorry about that - this was the worst possible point in time to lose connection13:39
dholbachok, so I'm not sure how much you received what I wrote earlier13:39
dholbach so if we want to make sure that Ubuntu and the Upstream project get the most out of our work, we want the following:13:39
dholbach  - have the best possible experience for our users (obviously)13:39
dholbach  - the best possible version in Ubuntu (this sometimes does not necessarily need to be the newest - sometimes the most stable is preferrable :-))13:39
dholbach  - share information from our users (good bug reports with all necessary information) with upstream, so they can look into the problem13:39
dholbach  - all our patches and modifications forwarded upstream13:39
dholbach as you can see a lot of good communication between the two projects is necessary to get together a good collaboration13:39
dholbach sometimes this will also involve talking to maintainers from other distributions13:39
ClassBotcoolbhavi asked: you mentioned that getting a change in ubuntu is not difficult. As a new user I want to contribute but m stuck at some point. How easy is it in such a situation?13:40
dholbachvery easy and very good question13:40
dholbachthere are many developers out there who just want to help you - you just need to ask13:40
dholbachthere's #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net for example13:40
dholbachand you can sign up for https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu to mail your questions there13:40
dholbacheverybody's super helpful and very friendy folks who want to help you get started13:41
dholbachok, let's go back to distributed development for a bit13:42
dholbachearlier I said: For example there might be the case that a particular Upstream is interested in working on a new big feature while Ubuntu, because of the tight release schedule, is interested in shipping a solid version with just an additional bug fix13:42
dholbachIn that case it would make sense for Ubuntu to ship with the existing version of the project, add the bugfix, get it into Upstream for their next release and ship that (if suitable) in the next Ubuntu release. It would be the best possible compromise and a situation where everybody wins.13:42
dholbachBut you have to consider this: whenever we take pristine upstream source and add a change of our own, we introduce a delta between the too.13:43
dholbachLet's say you fixed a bug and we added the fix. That's great. Ubuntu users are happy because of you.13:43
dholbachBut, if the change does not go into the Upstream source we will have to maintain the delta between the two.13:44
dholbachAnd over time if the code changes a lot, this might start to be a lot of work.13:44
dholbachSo collaboration is super important.13:44
dholbachTo fix a bug in Ubuntu, you would first get the source code for the package, then work on the fix, document it so it is easy to understand for other developers and users, then build the package to test it.13:45
dholbachAfter you have tested it, you can easily propose the change to be included in the current Ubuntu development release. A developer with upload rights will review it for you and then get it integrated into Ubuntu.13:45
dholbachSounds easy, doesn't it? :)13:45
dholbachAny questions about any of this?13:45
dholbachWhen trying to find a solution it is usually a good idea to check with Upstream and see if the problem (or a possible solution) is known already and, if not, do your best to make the solution a concerted effort.13:46
dholbachAdditional steps might involve getting the change backported to an older, still supported version of Ubuntu and forwarding it to Upstream.13:46
dholbachAnd now to a question I get asked all the time. "What does it take to become an Ubuntu developer?" :)13:47
=== henrix is now known as henrix_
dholbachThe most important requirements for success in Ubuntu development are: having a knack for “making things work again,” not being afraid to read documentation and ask questions, being a team player and enjoying some detective work.13:47
dholbachAnd as I mentioned earlier: You are not alone! Good places to ask your questions are ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net. You will easily find a lot of new friends and people with the same passion that you have: making the world a better place by making better Open Source software.13:47
dholbachOk, this concludes the quick general intro I wanted to give. I'd be happy to take a few more questions before we crack on. :)13:48
dholbachAny more general questions about Ubuntu development? Anything you always wanted to know?13:49
ClassBotsatyag asked: how does Canonical engage with Foss communities in India  ?13:50
dholbachhello satyag13:50
dholbachsatyag, there are no specific community plans for specific countries13:50
dholbachwe have LoCo (local community) teams in almost every country on the world13:50
dholbachhttp://loco.ubuntu.com/ might give you a good idea13:51
dholbachand in these teams we have Canonical and non-Canonical people13:51
dholbachwho are involved locally, at events, with other projects and so on13:51
dholbachso depending on well organised your team is and how involved they are, you should see Ubuntu people at events and elsewhere :)13:52
dholbachalright - if there's no more question, I'd say we take a 5 minute break (I need to get a glass of water and maybe some tea)13:52
dholbachand then we crack on with how to get actually started13:53
dholbachalright, we're back to part 2 of "Getting Started with Ubuntu Development"13:59
dholbachto everyone who is late: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html will later have the full logs and we will put them up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek too13:59
dholbachanother piece of advice: make sure you're in #ubuntu-classroom-chat as well14:00
dholbachbecause that's the place where we discuss everything and where you can ask questions14:00
dholbachjust make sure you prefix them with QUESTION:14:00
dholbachso they stand out and the bot can pick them up14:00
dholbachany more questions about what I talked about earlier?14:00
dholbachAlright, no questions - let's get cracking then.14:01
dholbachI'll try to cover just as much as possible to get us through a quick example and will give you links to more documentation at the end.14:02
dholbachIf I go too fast or things don't work for you, speak up. :)14:02
dholbachHere’s what we’ll cover:14:02
dholbach - Installing packaging-related software. This includes: Ubuntu-specific packaging utilities, Encryption software so your work can be verified as being done by you,     Additional encryption software so you can securely transfer files.14:03
dholbach - Setting up your development environment to help you do local builds of packages, interact with other developers, and propose your changes on Launchpad.14:03
dholbachHere's the first important note: It is generally advisable to do packaging work using the current development version of Ubuntu. Doing so will allow you to test changes in the same environment where those changes will actually be applied and used.14:03
dholbachSo this would mean that you have a version of 'raring' (13.04 which will soon be opened for public participation) running somewhere.14:04
dholbachThis obviously doesn't need to be your main machine. Please don't upgrade yet. :-)14:04
dholbachAt this point you would have to be very adventurous to do that.14:05
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases gives you some pointers how to use a virtual machine (or other safe means) to run 'raring'.14:05
dholbachFor now: if you run 'quantal' (13.04) you are fine.14:05
dholbachYou can take care of setting up a VM later on and just repeat the steps. :)14:06
dholbacherr, I just got corrected, 'quantal' is obviously 12.10 :)14:06
dholbachgot ahead of myself :)14:06
ClassBotvibhav asked: Can I contribute to technical areas of Ubuntu even without knowing any language?14:07
dholbachvibhav, nice one :)14:07
dholbachObviously the more you generally know about development, the more possibilities you have to be involved.14:07
dholbachTowards the end of the session I will show a quick example of how you can participate by fixing an obvious problem which doesn't require knowledge of any programming language.14:08
dholbachIf you are patient and take it slow, you can learn more about programming languages over time and get involved in other parts of Ubuntu as well.14:08
ClassBotbogor asked: using VM for testing in software in dev brach of the OS is good move. But how was it done in era before VM's came?14:08
dholbachbogor, you could always run Ubuntu in a separate partition or (if available) on a test machine14:09
=== dpm__ is now known as dpm
dholbachvmware tools have been available for a very long time already and were widely used before other virtualisation technologies got popular14:09
dholbachthere always were chroots as well, which provided you with a very basic separation experience14:10
dholbachand yes, to quote somebody from #ubuntu-classroom-chat - we always had brave people as well who upgraded as soon as a new release was opened :-)14:10
dholbachThere are a number of tools that will make your life as an Ubuntu developer much easier. You will encounter these tools all the time. To install most of the tools you will need run this command:14:10
dholbachsudo apt-get install packaging-dev14:11
dholbachor... if you are stuck with an older release (before Ubuntu 11.10 “Oneiric Ocelot”): you can run:14:11
dholbachsudo apt-get install gnupg pbuilder ubuntu-dev-tools bzr-builddeb apt-file14:11
dholbachThis command will install the following software:14:11
dholbach - gnupg – GNU Privacy Guard contains tools you will need to create a cryptographic key with which you will sign files you want to upload to Launchpad.14:12
dholbach - pbuilder – a tool to do reproducible builds of a package in a clean and isolated environment.14:12
dholbach - ubuntu-dev-tools (and devscripts, a direct dependency) – a collection of tools that make many packaging tasks easier.14:12
dholbach - bzr-builddeb (and bzr, a dependency) – distributed version control with Bazaar, a new way of working with packages for Ubuntu that will make it easy for many developers to collaborate and work on the same code while keeping it trivial to merge each other’s work.14:12
dholbach - apt-file provides an easy way to find the binary package that contains a given file.14:12
dholbachAny questions so far?14:12
ClassBotpune asked: Ubuntu for ARM , How to contribute in embedded domain using Ubuntu ?14:13
dholbachnice question14:13
dholbachpune, the great thing about the Ubuntu Development Community is that all the changes go into Ubuntu itself the same way, so if you decide to work on the Desktop, the Server or a specific architecture (like ARM), the processes will all be largely the same and the changes all eventually go into the same archive14:14
dholbachone thing which is different is that almost every team have their own team IRC channel or team mailing list14:15
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam should help find some people to join the team14:16
dholbachLet's set up pbuilder next14:17
dholbachpbuilder allows you to build packages locally on your machine. It serves a couple of purposes:14:17
dholbach - The build will be done in a minimal and clean environment. This helps you make sure your builds succeed in a reproducible way, but without modifying your local system14:17
dholbach - There is no need to install all necessary build dependencies locally14:17
dholbach - You can set up multiple instances for various Ubuntu and Debian releases14:17
dholbachSetting pbuilder up is very easy, simply run:14:17
dholbach   pbuilder-dist <release> create14:18
dholbachwhere <release> is for example quantal, oneiric or in the case of Debian maybe sid. This will take a while as it will download all the necessary packages for a “minimal installation”. These will be cached though.14:18
dholbachIf you already have a 'raring' virtual machine or installation, 'raring' is also going to work.14:18
dholbachFor now it should be fine to use   quantal   as <release>14:18
dholbachwe will use it just for illustration purposes here :)14:19
dholbachThis is going to take a while.14:19
ClassBotobounaim asked: What about cowbuilder-dist, I think it's a good alternative if you want to save some time?14:19
dholbachobounaim, To be very honest, I have never used it. O:-)14:19
dholbachMaybe it'd be good to bring it up in a mailing list discussion so we can include it in our documentation if it's deemed a better choice.14:20
dholbach<pune> QUESTION : dholbach : I want to do some significant contribution in embedded domain like VLSI, I want to understand where does Ubuntu goes in terms of these ?14:20
dholbachpune, I'm afraid I have no idea about VLSI - I'd suggest to use the links I mentioned above to get in touch with the ARM team and ask them directly. They're friendly people and have much more insight into the ARM space than I do.14:21
ClassBotMestreLion asked: can I use pbuilder for creating *any* release? for example, oneiric and quental if my system is precise?14:21
dholbachMestreLion, yes - as long as your release knows about the other release, it will create separate pbuilder chroots, which are then used whenever you do a build.14:21
dholbachNext we want to tell the Debian/Ubuntu packaging tools about yourself. Simply open your ~/.bashrc in a text editor and add something like this to the bottom of it:14:22
dholbachexport DEBFULLNAME="Bob Dobbs"14:22
dholbachexport DEBEMAIL="subgenius@example.com"14:22
dholbachNow save the file and either restart your terminal or run:14:22
dholbach   source ~/.bashrc14:23
dholbach(If you do not use the default shell, which is bash, please edit the configuration file for that shell accordingly.)14:23
dholbachI'd recommend to not use "Bob Dobbs" but your own name and email address. :-)14:23
dholbachI skipped a number of steps that you would normally need to do as well: creating a Launchpad account, creating an SSH key, creating a GPG key and registering them with Launchpad14:24
dholbachbut as I mentioned earlier - if we want to also work on a small example together it might get a bit much :)14:24
dholbachDid everyone succeed installing the tools, pbuilder and saving your name?14:25
dholbachAny questions or problems?14:25
dholbachOr any other parts we talked about only too briefly?14:25
ClassBotvibhav asked: Why are there so many development teams? (MOTU, Core Developers, etc)14:27
dholbachGreat question.14:27
dholbachA bit of clarification around the terms.14:27
dholbachMOTU stands for "Masters of the Universe" and traditionally were a team of people who took care of the packages in Universe and Multiverse.14:27
dholbachThis is how the team started. The team has always taken care of a lot of other things as well. For example did many new contributors start in the team, because it seemed like a great onramp for many.14:28
dholbachEven if there are different teams nowadays, this is something which happens naturally. If you have people who are interested in a specific thing and they have enough to talk about, they will want to have their own mailing list or irc channel, etc.14:29
dholbachStill all these teams work very closely together, have the same set of rules and work in the same archive.14:29
dholbachIt's not a decision you need to take early on. We're all one big family. :)14:30
dholbachThe main difference I can see that it determines which kind of upload rights you have.14:30
dholbachIf you join the MOTU team, you will have upload rights to 'universe' and 'multiverse'. If you join the "Core Developers team" you will have upload rights to all of Ubuntu.14:30
dholbachBefore you get upload rights, you will work with sponsors, who will review your suggested code changes and upload them for you.14:31
dholbachAfter having gone through this process for some time and after you built a bit of a reputation and trust, you can apply for upload rights.14:31
ClassBotsmartboyhw asked: I am a bit confused with the relationship between the release team, the core dev team and the main dev team. dholbach can you explain more clearly?:D14:32
dholbachI'm not aware of a 'main dev' team.14:32
dholbachGenerally everyone who work on Ubuntu is an Ubuntu developer. Some have upload rights, some don't. Some have access to more packages than others. This depends on their level of demonstrated involvement and expertise.14:33
dholbachThe release team is there to make decisions towards the end of the release. If there is a question of getting let's say a big new feature in after Feature Freeze, the release team will get involved to help make a reasonable decision.14:34
dholbachSo you have a large team of Ubuntu developers, with different interests, different team affiliations, different levels of access to packages and also you have teams which make decisions when cases are less clear-cut.14:34
dholbachBut all in all we all work on the same archive and on making Ubuntu better.14:34
dholbachI hope this helped clarify things a bit. :)14:35
dholbachAlright... let's get our hands dirty. And keep questions coming.14:36
dholbachSo we have this tool called lintian, which should be installed on your system now as well.14:37
dholbachIt checks our source package for a huge variety of common issues, for example typos.14:37
dholbachlintian told me that the pygmy package has a typo in its package description14:37
dholbachLet's check if that's true14:37
dholbachif you run this command:14:37
dholbach  apt-cache show pygmy14:38
dholbachit should you a lot of interesting information about the package, like dependencies, size and so on14:38
dholbachIt's what software-center does in a prettier way. ;-)14:38
dholbachIf you don't use Ubuntu in English, you can also run:14:38
dholbach   LC_ALL=C apt-cache show pygmy14:39
dholbachin the description it shows me this line:14:39
dholbach"Pygmy is a graphical client for MPD with a single, collapsable [...]"14:39
dholbachso collapsable should actually be collapsible14:39
dholbachI know it's a trivial mistake and not a big deal, still we shall use this as a small example to show how you can help out and don't need to get confused about programming languages in the beginning :)14:39
dholbachto get the source of the package, we will run:14:40
dholbach   bzr branch ubuntu:pygmy14:40
dholbachwhich will give us a Bazaar branch of the package revisions of pygmy14:40
dholbachso using bzr you can go through the history of the package14:40
dholbachI got an interesting comment from the ever-watchful cjwatson - give him a hug on #ubuntu-classroom-chat14:41
dholbach<cjwatson> dholbach: I suspect lintian is being excessively prescriptive here, as it happens; collapsable appears to be valid in at least American English14:41
dholbachstill, let's use this as an example for now - otherwise I will have to go and find a new one ;-)14:42
dholbach(I'm not a native speaker and hope I'm excused. :))14:42
dholbachNext, to inspect the source and find the problem, we will run:14:42
dholbach  cd pygmy14:42
dholbach  less debian/control14:42
dholbachwe are now looking at one of the central pieces of the packaging14:43
dholbachin the ./debian/ directory of every source package you will find information about the source itself like its license, there are instructions for how to build it and so on14:43
dholbacha lot of the meta-data you can find in debian/control14:44
dholbachthe first stanza relates to the source, the second (and sometimes following) stanzas are all about the binary (.deb) packages we want to build14:44
dholbachin our (simple) case it's just one14:44
dholbachand we can see 'collapsable' in the last lines of the file14:45
dholbachplease open debian/control in your favourite editor and change it to 'collapsible'14:45
dholbachand save the file14:45
dholbachok, we fixed the problem, what we need to do next is to document what we did14:46
dholbachif you now run this command in the source tree:14:46
dholbach  dch -i14:46
dholbachyou will see that debian/changelog was opened in an editor and that a template changelog entry was added for you14:46
dholbachif you did everything correctly it should even have your name and email address14:47
dholbachnow, in the line starting with '*' you can add a description of what you fixed14:47
dholbachwhat I usually try to do is14:47
dholbach - mention where I fixed the problem14:47
dholbach - how I fixed it14:47
dholbach - mention any additional information or discussion of the problem14:48
dholbachso if you have a reference to a bug report or a mailing list discussion14:48
dholbachyou want to add it there14:48
dholbachit's important that developers after you have a good chance to understand what you did14:48
dholbachin our small case this looks like overkill, but you can imagine how "fixed the problem" is not enough if you want to get a thousand line change included14:49
dholbachespecially if your fix isn't quite as good as you thought :)14:49
dholbachand if you don't do it for others, do it for yourself - if you ever touch the package again you really don't want to spend ages trying to understand what you did 2 months before :)14:49
dholbachok, what I'll put in there will be something along these lines:14:50
dholbach  * debian/control: changed 'collapsable' to 'collapsible'.14:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.14:50
dholbachwe don't have a reference to a bug report, but if we did, let's say it was bug number 123456789, we'd add something like (LP: #123456789) to it - this will automatically close the bug when the change gets uploaded to the archive14:51
dholbachonce you're happy with your changelog entry, save the file14:51
dholbachnow run the following command please:14:51
dholbach  bzr bd -- -S -us -uc14:51
dholbachthis looks terribly complicated, but it's fine - trust me :)14:51
dholbach"-us -uc" we just use because we didn't set up GPG keys in this tutorial, once you've done that you should be fine to drop it14:52
dholbach" bzr bd -- -S" will from the current revision (including local changes) of the branch build a source package, which we can then feed to pbuilder, or upload to our personal package archive on Launchpad14:53
dholbachor if we have upload rights, to Ubuntu14:53
dholbachif you now run:14:53
dholbach  cd ..14:53
dholbachand do an 'ls'14:53
dholbachyou will see the following files:14:53
dholbachpygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3.diff.gz  pygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3.dsc  pygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3_source.changes  pygmy_0.48.orig.tar.gz14:53
dholbachwhere pygmy_0.48.orig.tar.gz is the original tarball released by the pygmy software authors14:54
dholbachpygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3.diff.gz are the changes we (and Debian) introduced to make the package build the Debian/Ubuntu way14:54
dholbachpygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3.dsc and pygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3_source.changes are meta data which we'll ignore for now14:54
dholbachnow, the magic moment:14:54
dholbach  pbuilder-dist <release> build pygmy_0.48-3ubuntu3.dsc14:55
dholbachwhere <release> is the release for which you set up your pbuilder14:55
dholbachthis might take a while and should now go and build the source package for you14:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.14:55
dholbachok, I've got to speed up14:55
dholbachcan you maybe open another terminal in the meantime, run 'cd pygmy' and run 'bzr diff'14:56
dholbachthen open http://paste.ubuntu.com/ in a browser and paste in the output of 'bzr diff' for us?14:56
dholbachonce you've done that, please mention the URL in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please14:56
dholbachwe have a number of developers in there who then can go and have a quick look at your change and see if it's alright14:57
dholbachwhile we do this I want to thank everyone who attended the session - you all are great!14:57
dholbachOn Friday at 17:00 UTC coolbhavi will give a session about the MOTU team, so if you like Ubuntu development, make sure you turn up there as well!14:57
dholbachAlso please bookmark the following page: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ - it has the most important stuff you will need to get started.14:58
dholbachAnd if you want to stay up-to-date on other development-related events and initiatives, please consider following @ubuntudev on Twitter, Identica, Google+ or Facebook14:59
dholbachThanks again everyone, next up is Amber Graner to talk about the News team!15:00
akgranerThanks dholbach!15:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu News Team - Instructors: akgraner
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.15:00
akgranerHi everyone!  I’m Amber Graner and I am one of the Editors for the Ubuntu News Team.15:01
akgranerThank you all so much for coming to this session.15:01
akgranerIf at any time you have questions just post them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and I’ll get to them - thanks!15:02
akgranerSo what is the Ubuntu New Team?15:02
akgranerThe Ubuntu News Team consists of The Fridge and The Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter (UWN)15:03
akgraner(which are two official news channels of the Ubuntu Porject and staffed by a team of community volunteers)15:04
akgraneroops - project :-)15:04
akgranerFridge: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/15:04
akgranerThe Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter (UWN): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/15:05
akgranerThe news team with UWN captures a snapshot in time of what is happening in the world of Ubuntu.  If you take a look back at the archives you can see what topics are always current and which ones are re-occurring etc. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Archive15:06
akgranerUWN is like the community - ever growing, changing evolving  - what you see today is not the same as the what was there 5 years ago or so15:07
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akgranerIf you haven't see the latest issue - Issue 288 it can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue28815:08
akgranerThe News Team is always looking for volunteers to help put this together - this is also a good way to get started with Ubuntu Community Contribution and a way to see the bigger picture of what is happening throughout the Ubuntu Ecosystem15:09
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Who writes the articles in UWN, can anybody submit an article?15:10
akgranerIdleOne, great question! Thank you!  Anyone can submit an article and anyone can become an editor and help write them - this goes for both UWN and the Fridge and I'll get into the details of how to do that in just a few.15:11
akgranerCurrently we are working on Issue 289, and we collect the links and put them in a Google Doc found at https://docs.google.com/a/linaro.org/document/edit?id=18ZbtFHQq6uMj7iuRLd11VH8V5Uc_FA0IfgiRUcbMbQk15:12
akgranerIf you take a look at the Googledoc - you can see that people just add links to the various sections as they find them, sometimes we have people that add to it daily or if you get busy (like me) I go through my RSS feeds about once a week to see if I see anything that needs to be added15:13
akgranerFor those who want to help collect links and add to UWN (keeping in mind that not every link that gets added makes it into the final version of UWN) we keep a list of all the sources we’ve used in the past and update these as we get new sources for news. - Those suggestions by section can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions15:13
akgranerFor those who have a few minutes here or there during the week or would like to help write summaries we have guidelines for that as well and over time you’ll get the hang of it and it’s like second nature.  Style guidelines can be found at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/StyleGuidelines15:14
akgraner(I have to pause here to mention that when I started helping at I think issue 176, none of my summaries ever survived the first edit.  Someone always corrected something in them and at times nothing of my original summary even existed, but it's how I learned and how most writers learn, through the suggestions (corrections) of their editors - so don't take it personally if something you write gets re-written or even removed from an iss15:17
ClassBotobounaim asked: What are the main resources for UWM.15:17
akgranerobounaim, interesting question  - thanks! - we always look - Ubuntu Planet, Fridge, Canonical voices, Canonical Blog, Brainstorm, Launchpad, LoCo Team News, Archives for updates and security for all current releases that haven'd reached EOL yet, announce lists, ASK Ubuntu, and more15:20
akgranerhowever you can see a more indepth list of sources at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/LinkSuggestions15:21
akgranerand if you look there you will see how long and diverse this list is15:21
akgranerabout 2 years ago now, myself and a couple of other people went through over 150 issues to compile this list - and it's something we now do about once a year15:22
akgraner(it might have been a little longer than that  - time flies when you are having fun and the years all blur together at this point :-D)15:23
akgranerOk so maybe you are thinking I’d like to help but I just don’t have the time to collect links or write summaries.  No worries, editing we also need another set of eyes to go through the wiki before we publish and see if we have hotlinks, spelling or grammatical errors or if someone added their personal feelings to the summary (it happens I mean we all have those topics we are excited about) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNe15:23
akgranerMaybe you are looking at the current issue and you are thinking where does this information come,  from what goes in each section, etc in addition to the Link Suggestions wiki you and look at the raw text of the UWN Template - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/IssueTemplate15:25
akgranerIf you don’t know how to see the raw text  - click on the more actions drop down box and you will see the option for raw text.  This view gives more insight as to what goes in each section and where you pull the information from.15:25
akgranerobounaim, this should also go along to help answer your earlier question15:26
akgranerIf those who are following along can take a minute to look at the raw text version of the template that would be great15:26
akgranerI'll give you a minute - just let me know in -chat when you are there - thanks!15:27
akgranerok - so if you will look you'll see all the ## commented out sections - these comments explain what goes in each section15:28
akgranerthese are especially helpful for pulling the stats, the team updates and the Updates and Security sections15:29
akgranerMaybe you have been learned how to do all the sections, you are comfortable that you can assist and help put the newsletter together or fill in for anyone who can't help for a week and you want to become a publishing editor15:30
akgraner(Yes, it's often a little time consuming and takes some effort - but it is so worth it)15:31
akgranerthen you'll need to let the team know you are ready to learn how to publish and we'll help you with the scripts and walk you through the process15:32
akgranerIt used to be that one person was responsible, but now we have a whole team of people who help publish and get the news out on FB, Google+, Twitter, Forums, Fridge, Mailing Lists and more15:33
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Looks like all the news comes from online sources. What if I don't have a blog and wanted to submit an article to UWN how would I go about it?15:33
akgranerIdleOne, we'll need to get it online somehow - this can be through a guest blog somewhere (ie I have often used my personal blog, and I know jcastro and others have as well, to get news published online)15:35
akgranerthe reason we need it to be online is because we have to have a link to point back to15:35
akgranerThis questions leads me to the Fridge as well - For a long time now we have tried to figure out how to get original news to the Fridge, in the past this has been through interviews or sources who want the Fridge to have an exclusive story, but because we are more of syndication of news that effects the whole Community it's rare the Fridge has those types of stories - but we are certainly open to suggestions on this15:38
akgranerearlier - vibhav asked - QUESTION: How can I get my Ubuntu related blog post to the Newsletter?15:39
akgraneradding it to the Googledoc is just one way - the other way you can submitted stories, comments, suggestions, feedback is to send an email to: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-news-team or drop into the #ubuntu-news IRC channel15:40
akgraneryou can submit news for both UWN and The Fridge this way15:41
akgranerSome other links you may want in addtion to the main News Team wiki are:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/15:42
akgranerPersonally joining the newsteam and contributing to UWN and later the Fridge has been very rewarding to me and has helped me learn about and navigate the whole of the Ubuntu Community, so if you or someone you know would like to be part of this team feel free to let the team know or email me and I'll be happy to get you pointed in the right direction15:44
akgraner(keep in mind it's better to use the #ubuntu-news channel and the mailing list - it might take me a day or two to respond)15:45
akgranerIf there are no other questions; then thank you so much and I look forward to seeing some new contributors to the News Team.15:46
akgranerOk folks  - 10 minute break and then up will be  the Ubuntu Flavors Teams (Kubuntu and Lubuntu) - Riddell, phillw and kanliot15:48
ClassBotvibhav asked: Can one also add posts to the Newsletter if it is being critical of Ubuntu?15:49
akgranerGreat question!  - the answer is yes - however, it needs to have a well thought out explanation of the criticism  - just to say something like "This sucks" won't make it15:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.15:50
akgranerAnything else before I turn the floor over to Riddell and the Ubuntu Flavors?15:51
akgranerIf not, enjoy these 7 minutes  - and enjoy the next session which will start when you see classbot change the topic!  Thanks again, everyone and many thanks for the great questions.15:53
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.15:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Kubuntu Team - Instructors: Riddell
Riddellthanks ClassBot16:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:00
RiddellKubuntu is the Ubuntu flavour for KDE, the original and best free software desktop environment16:01
Riddellour main objective in life is to be friendly16:01
Riddellthat's a user friendly operating system16:01
Riddelland a friendly community of users and developers16:01
Riddellmy technical aim with Kubuntu is to give the best KDE experience16:02
Riddellsince I've always believed KDE to have the best technology for user software and the best community16:02
Riddellwhich should end up with the best OS16:02
Riddellwe like to have good relationships with upstream KDE and Qt and many of us are upstreams working on bits of KDE16:03
Riddellfor example Jonathan Thomas writes our Muon package manager suite16:03
Riddellthanks JontheEchidna16:03
Riddellbut does it as part of upstream so it can follow best practice by software developers and provide features for other distros that16:04
Riddellpick it up16:04
Riddellor Harald Sitter who works on Phonon the multimedia library for Qt16:04
Riddellhelped us get the fiddly mp3 codec install working in an integrated way16:04
Riddellhaving good relations with and being upstream means we can hope to avoid problems, fix problems when they arise16:05
Riddelland we have a policy of sending back fixed and patches to upstream16:05
Riddellwe want to be good citizens16:05
Riddelland it means we don't end up with lots of stuff to maintain16:05
Riddellwe also make Project Neon, daily builds of KDE software16:06
Riddellwhich is the easiest way for developers and testers to try out the crack-of-the-day16:06
Riddelland by being KDE focused we pick up bits often ignored by other distros like Plasma Netbook or Plasma Active or Plasma Media Centre16:07
RiddellPlasma being the KDE framework for making workspaces16:07
Riddellthere's been some changes at Kubuntu behind the scenes16:07
RiddellCanonical stepped back from their commercial support earlier this year16:07
Riddellwhich ment we did some soul searching16:07
Riddellpondering if we should carry on or not, if we filled a gap in the market16:08
Riddellat which point I got lots of e-mails from people who said they'd be lost without Kubuntu16:08
Riddellthat they depended on it existing because they'd just mangaged to convince their school or their boss to use it16:08
Riddelland people who want to help16:09
RiddellBlue Systems stepped in to sponsor much of the stuff Canonical stepped back from which is lovely16:09
Riddellthey also sponsor a couple of our downstreams - Mint KDE and Netrunner16:10
RiddellI love having downstreams, it was great at Akademy this year16:10
Riddellhosted by vprints who makes estobuntu, the Estonian distro made from Kubuntu16:10
Riddellthere's another sponsor who want to provide support services16:11
Riddellbut that's been stuck with Canonical agreeing they can use the trademark for the last six months which is very frustrating16:11
Riddella shame when they end up blocking the community rather than enabling it16:12
ClassBotsiretart asked: if you had to guess, how much integration vs how much innovation work would guess that the kubuntu team invests?16:13
Riddellit's not too clear where one stops and the other starts16:14
Riddellin this last cycle I integrated print-manager, a new printer applet and config tool from KDE16:14
Riddelland but that involves a bunch of testing and feedback to upstream16:15
Riddellbut generally the development is best done upstream so if we can we push it there16:15
RiddellMuon is developed in upsteam and recently Muon Discover was added16:16
Riddellas a shiny more app-store type frontend16:16
Riddellit would be unlikely to get picked up if it was developed downstream16:16
RiddellI think the Ubuntu Software Centre has other people interested in it but I'm not sure if that's going into the same project, I suspect not16:17
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: I read a bit about Blue Systems, but of interest can you provide examples for how they sponser distros such as Mint KDE and now Kubuntu as well?16:17
RiddellMint I'm not too sure, but their donations went up plenty recently so that's likely to be Blue Systems16:18
RiddellKubuntu they sponsor my time on it and we have some money in a bank account now so we can get some extra people to UDS and we'll have swanky polo shirts to wear16:19
Riddellthat's not just Blue Systems, we also had a very nice anonymous donor who just sent me a few thousand dollars, it's nice to be popular16:19
Riddellideas on how to spend such donations welcome :)16:19
Riddellcoming up in Kubuntu will be Qt 5 and KDE Frameworks 516:20
Riddellunlike Qt 4 and KDE 4 they will be 99% API compatible16:20
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:20
Riddellso it's not a case of rewriting everything at all, users are unlikely to notice much difference16:20
Riddellso there's no "KDE 5"16:21
Riddelljust a change from kdelibs to KDE Frameworks 516:21
Riddellwhich will be a lot more componentised than KDE 4 so you can use it in your apps without adding large dependencies16:21
Riddellanyway I expect that'll be needing some packaging and testing work in this coming cycle16:22
Riddellwe're always after people to help out Kubuntu16:22
Riddellcommunity support16:22
Riddellwiki and documentation updates16:23
Riddellthere's something for everyone to do16:23
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Riddellwe do most of the coordination over IRC16:24
Riddelland at UDS16:24
Riddellso join us in #kubuntu-devel and stay around16:24
Riddellany more questions?16:24
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:25
Riddellthen phillw is up next talking about lubuntu16:26
Riddellone of the newer flavours16:26
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: How long have you used KDE and Kubuntu for?16:28
RiddellKDE since about 199916:29
Riddellit was pretty primitive and clunky that easy version16:29
RiddellKDE 2 was so lovely when it came out it made me want to become a developer16:29
RiddellKubuntu since we started it16:29
Riddellshortly after Ubuntu Desktop16:30
Riddell2005 say my notes16:30
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Lubuntu Team - Instructors: phillw
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:30
phillwHi, I'm phillw and am the co-ordinator for QA / Testing for Lubuntu.16:31
phillwLubuntu was started back in 2009, with full adoption in 2011.16:32
phillwWe are the 'baby' of the family both in time having been adopted and resource usage on an installed system.16:32
phillwLubuntu is based on LXDE, just Kubuntu used KDE etc.16:33
phillwThe lubuntu developers are also LXDE developers, and like with kubuntu this means a lot of work is done 'up-stream', so as the LXDE components can be used by others / saves duplication of effort etc.16:34
phillwAs with all members of the family, we are always on the look out for people to assist, there are many ways to help...16:35
phillwfrom dev work through artwork, testing, documentation, translation...... etc etc.16:36
phillwa good place to start for anyone wanting to find out more about how / where to help is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/GettingInvolved16:37
phillwThis lists the lubuntu sub-teams and has links to lxde as well.16:37
phillwif anyone wants to drop by and just have a chat the freenode channel #lubuntu-offtopic is a good place to head to.16:38
phillwLubuntu has taken the mantle of supporting the 'older' equipment and now supports the apple PPC computers with a release. Help is really appreciated by anyone who can help in testing this architecture.16:40
ClassBotRiddell asked: dunno if this'll bring up tensions but does LXDE fill a need that XFCE doesn't?16:41
phillwXubuntu are concentrating on their system. both Xubuntu and Lubuntu are low resource systems. I am led to believe that lubuntu runs on lower resources than xubuntu but as with most things in the family a lot of which flavour we choose16:42
phillwis down to personal choic.#16:42
phillwdoes anyone else have any questions? The above was a quick outline of lubuntu, so please feel free to ask!16:44
ClassBotRiddell asked: is memory usage a big factor in deciding what appplications to stip? e.g. what web browser do you use?16:45
phillwmemory usage is a big factor for lubuntu, it is for that reason we ship Chromium as default browser. But, as with all things *buntu related, if you want Firefox etc.  just grab it from the repositories.16:46
phillwwe have a small 'internal' joke that says any new application to be added to lubuntu must follow a couple of simple rules..16:46
phillwIt must take no disk space up, must use no CPU time when running and must consume no RAM... Other than that, we're pretty relaxed :)16:47
ClassBotgenii-around asked: Were there applications or features that had to be ripped out to get the iso size down? If so, what were the hardest things to decide to remove.16:48
phillwFrom the start, it was decided not to include a full office suite - which is a big saving on iso space.16:48
phillwthe balance currently is which language packs should we support 'out of the box' Versus iso size.16:49
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:50
ClassBotIdleOne asked: Doesn't supporting some languages OTB and not others limit the potential new user base?16:52
phillwIt most likely does, once everything else is set for the iso's, we add as many languages as we can squeeze on. The other option would be go DVD size, which would really cripple those reliant on a CD sized installation. Languages can be easily added after installation & the common languages are on the iso.16:53
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:55
phillwWell, 5 mins more of me, then it will be the turn of Edubuntu followed by Ubuntu Studio. Your hosts for those being highvoltage and ailo respectively.16:57
ClassBottoobuntu asked: what distinguishes lubuntu from other lxde distros?16:57
phillwlubuntu is the use of LXDE on the ubuntu infrastructure. In much the same way the kubuntu uses KDE and Xubuntu use xcfe16:58
ClassBotgenii-around asked: Would you be in favour of an all-in-one DVD with a selection of all the current *buntu ?16:59
phillwIf someone wants to issue an 'all in one DVD', I certainly see no harm in it. Lubuntu, however, is committed to releasing iso's that are CD sized.17:00
phillwwell, thankyou everyone... I'd best scarper :)17:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Edubuntu Team - Instructors: highvoltage
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:00
highvoltageHi everyone and welcome to the Edubuntu session at Ubuntu OpenWeek!17:01
highvoltageFeel free to ask questions any time, I'll stop babbling around half-way through the session and start answering them around then.17:02
highvoltageWe'd like to grow our contributor base and would greatly appreciate your contributions.17:02
highvoltageOver the years the goals of the project have changed slightly, currently we're refining our current goals and making it more expressed and focussed so that it's easy to figure out what we'll be working on over the next few years.17:02
highvoltageWe've decided to mostly focus on the technical side of things. We don't work on any content, since having good content for every curriculum in every region is just way to big a task for us to take on.17:02
highvoltageInstead, we focus on making Edubuntu a good solution, or a platform to deliver education on. We do this by making it as easy to install and administer in classrooms and education environments as possible. Also, we help triage and fix bug in educational packages in the Ubuntu archives. We also want to run a campaign this cycle to package some educational software that's not in the archives yet. We'd really appreciate some help the17:03
highvoltageSo, let's get to some more meaty stuff :)17:03
highvoltageOur goal for Edubuntu 14.04 LTS (to be released in May 2014) is to have a complete school solution with Edubuntu for servers, tablets, thin clients and desktops.17:03
highvoltageStéphane Graber did a good blog post about this that outlines some of this work: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/10/21/edubuntu-the-path-to-14-04-lts/17:04
highvoltageSome of this work is already happening for Edubuntu 13.04 and Edubuntu 13.10, the idea is to have all everything implemented so that the kinks are ironed out by the time we hit the next Long Term Release.17:04
highvoltageOne of the very interesting things to happen in the Edubuntu Server installation is the Active Directory compatible Samba4 server. You'll be able to create domains or join existing domains. It will also be really easy to set up. Here's a screensthot: https://plus.google.com/104492301562638456962/posts/AAF63DRYQZ417:05
highvoltageI think that's quite exciting, since currently, in many schools, the Active Directory domain is at the heart of their infrastructure.17:05
highvoltageAnd now they will be able to implement it really easily, using free software.17:06
highvoltageYou'll also be able to install an Edubuntu server from the same installation media as the desktop disc, here's a screenshot of that: https://plus.google.com/photos/104492301562638456962/albums/5802405895633670529/580240589553719622617:06
highvoltageThe Edubuntu Server installation will also do container-based virtualization by default. In there you'll be able to deploy everything from directory servers to websites powered by Wordpress and Drupal using Juju recipes.17:07
highvoltageBesides Edubuntu server, we've also been investigating tablets.17:08
highvoltageIf you've been following the news, you probably know that schools spend a huge amount of money on tablets17:09
highvoltageand more particularly, iPads17:09
highvoltageWe believe this is quite wasteful since they age rapidly, the first generation of iPods that were still on sale a year and a half ago are now 3 generations behind17:10
highvoltageI did a little blog post about it a while back: http://jonathancarter.org/2012/04/16/ipads-in-education-and-the-road-ahead-for-edubuntu/17:10
highvoltageWe also filed bug one million about it in Launchpad :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu/+bug/1000000/17:10
highvoltageit's likely that Ubuntu will be supporting the Nexus 7 tablet, and we want to integrate that in our classroom management tools so that the tablets could be more useful, for those who would want to use them.17:11
highvoltageWe'd like to expand tools like the Epoptes classroom management tools to have functionality like selecting a PDF and a page number so that a whole class can instantely have the same document at the same place17:11
highvoltagerather than having a teacher give a link, wait for everyone to download it, wait for everyone to navigate to the same page17:12
highvoltagethere are probably 100's of things you could do to smooth out tablet uses in classrooms, we're open for ideas.17:12
highvoltageSo that's a very brief description of some of the things we're planning to work on, but it provides some idea of where we're heading and what we'd like to do.17:13
highvoltageBasically, we'd like a new school or district to be able to set up their whole infrastructure and everything using Edubuntu, and doing it easily and quickly.17:14
highvoltageBefore I move on to answering questions, I'd just like to mention a few ways to get involved.17:14
highvoltageThe best way is to join #edubuntu - add it to your autojoin :)17:14
highvoltagealso, join the #edubuntu-devel mailing list on http://lists.ubuntu.com17:15
highvoltageand don't be shy - please introduce yourself :)17:15
highvoltagewe don't bite, and we'll help you find something to contribute to that you're interested in17:15
highvoltagewe're also at UDS next week (the ubuntu developer summit)17:15
highvoltageso far we have 3 sessions planned:17:15
highvoltageMonday:16:15 -  Edubuntu Planning for "R" Cycle - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/2012-10-29/17:15
highvoltageWednesday: 14:00: Edubuntu plenary session as part of Flavors roundtable - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/2012-10-31/17:15
highvoltageThursday: 11:00-11:55 CET: Edubuntu Server Introduction / Demo / Feedback Session - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/2012-11-01/17:15
highvoltagethe schedule is subject to change, so please keep an eye on the schedule17:16
highvoltageeven if you can't make it in person, it's possible to participate remotely:17:16
ClassBotgenii-around asked: With stuff like gpxe which can work over wifi and apps like "WiFi Booter" for iPad, is there a trend in Edubuntu towards thin client or in-house cloud devement including pxe over wireless?17:17
highvoltageWe get that question often.17:18
highvoltagethere are some tools that are emerging that makes it easier to do that. X2go and FreeRDP are both getting a lot better17:18
highvoltageand you'll be able to use clients for Linux, Android and IOS to connect to those17:18
highvoltage(I doubt you'd want to wireless boot an iPad though ;) )17:19
highvoltageAny further questions or comments?17:19
highvoltageWe're a small team and sometimes we can't always get back to you with something immediately17:20
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:20
highvoltageso if you're joining Edubuntu, it's sometimes useful to be a bit patient with us, but we really really do appreciate any contributions we can get17:20
highvoltageWe also recently got a deployments page on our website: http://edubuntu.org/deployments17:21
highvoltageif you know of any schools or institutions using Edubuntu, please tell them to add themselves to the list :)17:21
highvoltageWe'd also like to do some interviews with organisations and feature them on our website17:22
highvoltageso many people are doing great work and we don't do enough to feature them17:22
ClassBotgenii-around asked: Do any Accessibility feautures come standard in Edubuntu, like a screen reader or such?17:22
highvoltagesorry, I was in the wrong channel again17:24
highvoltageIt does, we include all the accessibility tools that are available in Ubuntu.17:24
highvoltageWe might actually be able to install more accessibility tools in Edubuntu because we ship on DVD that has more space17:24
highvoltageso it's possible that we could perhaps ship some more, will certainly look into it17:24
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:25
highvoltageWell, that seems like a wrap. Thanks for listening everyone and also those who will read off-line later on. If you have further questions, we're pretty much always available in #edubuntu :)17:27
ClassBotkjcole asked: Speaking of accessibility, captioning / subtitling tools?17:28
highvoltageGood question!17:28
highvoltageI believe you can do this with openshot17:28
highvoltagebut I'm not particularly qualified to answer that :)17:29
highvoltagewell, seems like time is pretty much up. thanks everyone and have a good day!17:30
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Studio Team - Instructors: TBD
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:30
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:50
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:55
genii-aroundThe following is copy-pasted ranscribed from -chat for the logs before session ends18:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/24/%23ubuntu-classroom.html18:00
genii-aroundHello. I'm supposed to represent Ubuntu Studio, but it seems I'm not able to send to the channel, right?18:00
genii-aroundphilballew: ^18:00
genii-aroundhighvoltage (~highvolta@ubuntu/member/highvoltage) has left #ubuntu-classroom-chat18:00
genii-aroundWell, I'm hoping this might get fixed soon. Sorry for the wait :)18:00
genii-aroundIf anyone has any questions meanwhile, just ask18:00
genii-aroundailo: I'm asking around for you :-)18:00
genii-aroundWell, I might as well do it here, but I guess it won't be logged, in case someone would want to read it later18:00
genii-aroundHi everyone. My name is Kaj Ailomaa, and I'm a developer for Ubuntu Studio18:00
genii-aroundMight as well, i've mentioned it in the ubuntu ops channel and in the ubuntu irc channel but no one seems to be resonding right now18:00
genii-aroundI'll just be telling you about Ubuntu Studio for a while, and if you come to think of something, feel free to interrupt me at any time with a question.18:00
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genii-aroundUbuntu Studio is one of the official derivatives of Ubuntu, focused on multimedia content creation18:00
genii-aroundThe Ubuntu Studio developers are all volunteers but we do get a bit of assistance from Ubuntu devs from time to time18:00
genii-aroundFor example, recently we've gotten a new kernel flavor into the repositories, called linux-lowlatency18:00
genii-aroundAnd to set up a nice routine for the maintenance of it, we're being assisted by the kind souls in the UKT (Ubuntu Kernel Team)18:01
genii-aroundSo, how does Ubuntu Studio differ from other Ubuntu derivatives?18:01
genii-aroundAs we are focused on multimedia, our goal is to enhance workflows that deal with multimedia creation.18:01
genii-aroundCurrently we have these workflows defined: audio, graphics, video, photography and publishing18:01
genii-aroundThe ISO we provide includes all the applications that we believe fill those workflows, but is something that is constantly under progress.18:01
genii-aroundThe choice of desktop is entirely based on which one we think is best for artists and their workflows.18:01
genii-aroundCurrently, it's XFCE, which we deemed was the right choice during the time when Unity was being introduced as the default Ubuntu desktop, and Gnome2 (which used to be the Ubuntu Studio desktop) was being discarded.18:01
genii-aroundXFCE was a safe step IMO, and it seems to be well accepted by the Ubuntu Studio community, which is the important thing.18:01
genii-aroundWe've actually mostly imported the desktop setup from Xubuntu (thanks guys for the help with that), to save us time so we can focus on more multimedia specific items.18:01
genii-aroundA few things differ from Xubuntu. We have a custom menu, where we group applications under the workflows I listed before. Not only so that people find them easier, but also to lead new users to relevant applications for their workflows.18:01
genii-aroundAnd a few other things18:01
genii-aroundFor the audio workflow, one of the most crucial components is the kernel, as it is the most important factor in achieving low latency operation for realtime applications.18:01
genii-aroundA simple example where we need really low latency: Connect a midi keyboard to the computer and use it to play on a software synthesizer. When you press a key, you want to hear the sound, instantly, without audio drop outs (crackling sound).18:01
genii-aroundWhile linux-generic can handle operation at quite low latencies, the acceptable threshold on which we get stable operation on current computers is still too high, so we need a special kernel for that.18:01
genii-aroundSome releases of Ubuntu Studio has had a linux-rt kernel, which is a kernel based on the Ubuntu linux-generic, but with an added patch of code to it.18:01
genii-aroundSince Ubuntu Studio 12.04, we now have replaced linux-rt (last seen in Ubuntu Studio 9.10) with linux-lowlatency, which is a linux-generic without any additional patches, but with few small diffs in the configuration.18:01
genii-aroundRecent additions to the vanilla kernel source (the one all Linux based distros base their kernels on) has made such a kernel perform well enough that we felt keeping a linux-rt was superfluous.18:01
genii-aroundAnother part of achieveing low latency operation is by giving the user realtime privilege, which is needed to run certain audio applications at lowest possible latencies. This is simple configuration, when you know your way around a Linux system, but not easy for new users. So, of course, Ubuntu Studio provides this by default.18:01
genii-aroundAt the core of the "pro" audio family of applications, we have jack, which is an audio server that is specifically designed for pro audio use.18:01
genii-aroundNot only well performing at low latencies, but also enables us to route the audio stream of any jack supporting audio application to any other jack supporting audio application.18:01
genii-aroundBecause most of the Ubuntu Studio developers have been audio enthusiasts, audio has received most attention. That is something we would like to change in the future.18:01
genii-aroundDuring this next cycle of development, we will be doing some research on the other workflows, and see how we can improve them. On things like monitor calibration, which is something we haven't looked at, during my time at least.18:01
genii-aroundWe'll also be writing a bit of documentation, for both users and developers.18:01
genii-aroundDeveloper documentation will be especially important to enable new contributors to quickly get into speed with things.18:01
genii-aroundI think overall, there's lot's of space for improvement. Better cooperation upstream, which for us include Ubuntu, Debian and in particular, the Debian Multimedia Team, who are responsible for packaging most of the applications that we use on Ubuntu Studio for our workflows.18:01
genii-aroundThe problem is really just in finding enough time, manpower, and getting a good team structure in place. To grow, we need an organisation the enables it.18:01
genii-aroundAs we need all kinds of people, not only software developers (which is not a huge part of Ubuntu Studio development), it needs to be easy for those not familiar with any kind of development to easily blend in and start helping.18:01
genii-aroundcoolbhavi (~bhavani@ubuntu/member/coolbhavi) has quit (Quit: Leaving)18:02
genii-aroundWell, that's about what I had prepared. I could talk more, but, maybe someone has a question?18:02
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genii-aroundQUESTION: Ubuntu Studio comes with a set of pre-installed applications. How are they chosen, can we suggest apps to include?18:02
genii-aroundcielak: Anyone is free to suggest applications to be included, absolutely.18:02
genii-aroundWe make the selection based on some criterias18:02
genii-aroundOne is, do we have an application that already fills this specific workflow, and which one is better?18:02
genii-aroundThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.18:02
genii-aroundIf we feel that the application serves a purpose, and that we don't already have a similar application included which does the job just as good, or better, we include it18:02
genii-aroundOne thing that we get a lot is why don't we include applications like Cinerella, or Linux Sampler18:02
genii-aroundBoth quite well known, but not included in the Debian repo18:02
genii-aroundAlso, there are many who wishes to have better support for VST audio plugins, which is a format developed by Steinberg18:02
genii-aroundI'm not sure if we can't include some of those things, but I believe it comes down to problems with licensing18:02
genii-aroundThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.18:02
genii-aroundWhen using VST plugins that are not native to Linux, we need Wine.18:02
genii-aroundphanimahesh (~phanimahe@ has joined #ubuntu-classroom-chat18:02
genii-aroundSo, seems like time is running out. :)18:02
genii-aroundthanks ailo, that was an interesting session ;)18:02
genii-aroundBut of course is from ailo and not me18:02
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metasansanaDid I miss anything?23:46

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