| guntbert | some remarks about the upgrade process: the user is asked (several times) if he want to keep/replace certain config files. There is no way to know when those questions will pop up - makes the upgrade last a lot longer than necessary unless I watch it all the time - against what package would I file a bug in this case? | 20:13 |
|---|---|---|
| MrChrisDruif | I think there isn't a clear cut answer for that. I guess all packages which got new config files? | 20:15 |
| MrChrisDruif | Then again, I'm no developer. | 20:16 |
| MrChrisDruif | I think I'd go for update-manager, because you the "end-user" got a problem with the upgrade progress guntbert | 20:17 |
| guntbert | MrChrisDruif: will do, thx for the advice (finding the right package is sometimes the hardest part of a good bug report :) | 20:18 |
| MrChrisDruif | No probs. | 20:19 |
| === glebihan_ is now known as glebihan | ||
| guntbert | on a totally different topic: what might be the right place/situation where the ubuntu gods (iow mark shuttleworth) would be really listening to the concerns about unity-lens-shopping being opt-out instead of opt-in (as it should be) | 20:44 |
| guntbert | I read his blog and the discussion there, and he seems not to hear what many are talking about | 20:46 |
| IdleOne | I don't think that his response would be any different if you wrote a letter or sent him an email. | 20:49 |
| MrChrisDruif | He has his talks on IRC once a month I think. But talking to Canonical staff also worth your time. | 20:49 |
| MrChrisDruif | jono_; ^ | 20:49 |
| IdleOne | guntbert: there is a Ask Mark session at 10:00UTC on the 25th | 20:50 |
| IdleOne | tomorrow* | 20:50 |
| IdleOne | I am sure he will get many questions about it then | 20:50 |
| guntbert | IdleOne: MrChrisDruif: I was not so concerned about throwing my "very special" voice into the melee - and contacting him personally about this was mot my intention - where is that session held? | 20:54 |
| IdleOne | in #ubuntu-classroom http://is.gd/8rtIi | | 20:54 |
| IdleOne | the times on the calendar are UTC | 20:54 |
| guntbert | IdleOne: thx, I'll have to read the logs - lesson time :-) | 20:58 |
| IdleOne | same here, that will be at 6:00AM my time and i don't think I will be awake | 20:59 |
| MrChrisDruif | Noon, I'm at work at that time ^_^ | 21:00 |
| jono_ | guntbert, hey | 21:03 |
| jono_ | Mark is well aware of the concerns, I can assure youi | 21:03 |
| jono_ | he reads the blogs, discussions, and mailing list threads | 21:03 |
| guntbert | hey jono_ : I am sure he is aware, but his responses didn't sound as if he really had listened | 21:04 |
| jono_ | guntbert, how so? | 21:04 |
| jono_ | I think he responded appropriately, he just disagreed with much of the concern | 21:05 |
| guntbert | well in the blog he didn't adress the opt-out vs opt-in policy at all, and the "we have root" was just outrageous in my opinion | 21:06 |
| jono_ | guntbert, to be fair, his point about root was simply a point about trust | 21:06 |
| jono_ | Ubuntu developers do have root...packages run as root | 21:06 |
| jono_ | he was making the point that it is fair for our users to trust Ubuntu developers | 21:07 |
| jono_ | as we have always had root packages and this trust has always served our users well | 21:07 |
| jono_ | guntbert, in terms of the opt out thing, this was address in Cristian Parrino's post | 21:07 |
| jono_ | http://blog.canonical.com/2012/10/12/searching-in-the-dash-in-ubuntu-12-10-an-update/ | 21:07 |
| * guntbert hadn't seen that post yet | 21:08 | |
| IdleOne | The we have root comment was meant to be cheaky | 21:08 |
| guntbert | jono_: to trust someone | 21:08 |
| jono_ | IdleOne, indeed | 21:09 |
| guntbert | jono_: to trust someone not to mess my system is a completely different sort of trust than to trust them with my data | 21:09 |
| IdleOne | it was not meant to be literal, language barriers can make it difficult to grasp the humour that was intended. | 21:09 |
| jono_ | guntbert, right, and I agree, but the point he made was that Ubuntu is built on a foundation of trust, and if we have managed to handle that trust well for eight years, it should provide some reassurance to our users | 21:10 |
| IdleOne | guntbert: although you do have a firm grasp of the English language I believe that some of the more suttle humour may still escape you. | 21:10 |
| jono_ | guntbert, if you don't like the feature, switch it off | 21:10 |
| jono_ | there is a button | 21:10 |
| jono_ | it was definitely a tongue in cheek comment | 21:10 |
| IdleOne | subtle* | 21:10 |
| jono_ | no doubt, and I think you raise a good point, IdleOne, about the subtlety sometimes being lost | 21:11 |
| IdleOne | jono_: I think Mark is often misunderstood, he does IMO have a special sense of humour | 21:11 |
| jono_ | IdleOne, I agree | 21:11 |
| guntbert | it is too late for me today to go into a deeper discussion - but jono_ you last remark (off-button) touches exactly my main concern: opt-out vs opt.in | 21:11 |
| MrChrisDruif | IdleOne; subtle humour gets lost without the non-verbal part. =) | 21:12 |
| IdleOne | guntbert: I agree that the shopping lens should be an opt-in, BUT that would mean less users would get to see it. making it an opt-out feature at least allows the user to see it one time. | 21:13 |
| IdleOne | MrChrisDruif: true, text is not always the best medium for humour | 21:13 |
| MrChrisDruif | =D | 21:13 |
| jono_ | guntbert, was nice chatting | 21:13 |
| jono_ | have a nice evening | 21:14 |
| guntbert | IdleOne: true, but the standard rules for privacy and data protection require just that: "offer it", promote it - but let people opt-in | 21:14 |
| guntbert | jono_: thx for listening - have a nice time too | 21:15 |
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