[00:07] <len-dt> falktx, I would imagine. It only matters where more than one kind of kernel may be used.
[00:08] <len-dt> Audio users have different needs than most. It is not uncommon to have more than one kernel in use. or more than one drive set up. Labeling of some sort is needed.
[00:10] <len-dt> On this machine I have Ubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu on three drives...
[00:14] <len-dt> Three different versions, My bios can boot at any one of them. So three Grub partitions too.
[00:26] <falktx> I bet the other ubuntu based distros will want this too
[00:26] <falktx> having only 'Ubuntu' is kinda bad
[00:32] <micahg> Ubuntu is the platform
[00:33] <micahg> it's an Ubuntu kernel (at least the generic one)
[00:36] <len-dt> micahg, some of us use both a generic (on battery) and low latency (on power)
[00:40] <micahg> len-dt: I think that either way, it's really an Ubuntu kernel though
[00:41] <micahg> the login manager asks which DE you want, not grub
[00:41] <len-dt> Yes, but the user might like to know which one they are booting
[00:41] <micahg> so, it should say whether it's lowlatency or generic
[00:41] <len-dt> Yes.
[00:41] <len-dt> And probably only if both are present
[00:42] <len-dt> micahg, it would probably be ok to have Ubuntu and Ubuntu low latency
[00:42] <micahg> nah, I think it needs to be descriptive of what's installed, does it not do that now?
[00:42] <len-dt> Not if you have more than one type.
[00:43] <micahg> It should say Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-generic; and Ubuntu, 3.5.0-18-lowlatency
[00:44] <len-dt> That would be ok, but I think "they"  are trying to get away from scarey looking startups
[00:44] <len-dt> "they" being whoever is setting up GRUB
[00:45] <micahg> well, grub isn't shown by default
[00:45] <micahg> you have to hold down shift or something
[00:46] <len-dt> I think if we want it changed, we need to come up with a patch that leaves Ubuntu generic as is
[00:46] <len-dt> Some do and some don't seem to. My wife's netbook always shows it
[00:46] <len-dt> She has 12.04 vanilla
[00:47] <len-dt> This machine shows it (12.10) but my netbook doesn't
[00:48] <micahg> yes, but it should show up in the grub list as lowlatency if grub is shown
[00:48] <micahg> *already show up
[00:48] <len-dt> This one just shows Ubuntu
[00:48] <len-dt> I agree the word low latency would be good
[00:50] <micahg> yes, but in the version string it should show the flavor of the kernel
[00:50] <len-dt> OK
[00:50] <micahg> the structure is: platform, version-flavor
[00:51] <len-dt> Sounds good, but right now it isn't
[00:51] <micahg> ah, yes, so that's a bug then
[00:51] <len-dt> I think the back kernels are though
[00:51] <micahg> on 12.04?
[00:51] <len-dt> I thought it had just been changed for 12.10
[00:51] <len-dt> 12.10
[00:52] <len-dt> 12.04 shows the whole thing
[00:53] <micahg> Ubuntu 12.10, kernel 3.5.0-18-generic on my regular system
[00:53] <len-dt> Interesting
[00:53] <micahg> what does /boot/grub/menu.lst show?
[00:54]  * micahg is also using the old grub though
[00:54] <len-dt> that file is not here
[00:54] <micahg> ok, check /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[00:56] <len-dt> Where do I look?
[00:56] <micahg> towards the end
[00:57] <micahg> grep menuentry /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[01:00] <len-dt> The ones under Advanced options for Ubuntu look good.
[01:02] <len-dt> I'm going to reboot for a minute
[01:09] <len-dt> micahg, things have changed. There is only one kernel on this drive. But it shows on the submenu.
[01:09] <micahg> hrm, I'm not sure how that's supposed to work
[01:10] <len-dt> So there is a "Ubuntu" entry that seems to point to the latest one on the drive. Then there is a submenu with the same kernel with full name and a second rescue entry.
[01:10] <len-dt> It looks like as much as can be is hidden in sub menus.
[01:11] <len-dt> We will have to document it a bit I think for those who want to use two kernel versions
[01:12] <len-dt> as an aside, 10.10 was picked up but not my 12.04 drive.
[01:12] <len-dt> I think it was mounted playing music during install :)
[02:31] <Hypnotoad> len-dt: Yes, "ubuntu" was noticed by myself as well and counted as unacceptable and fixed. :P
[02:32] <Hypnotoad> It is "normal" to have it like that.
[02:33] <len-dt> if uninformative 
[02:33] <len-dt> I think it does make sense for the vanilla out of the box experience... maybe not for Studio
[04:10] <len-dt> ailo, another problem with volti... when I try it with my D66 it wants to control all my DACs with the volume control in the tray. And it locks them all to what ever the tray volume is set to.
[04:11] <len-dt> So I can't even turn one of them down with mudita24 for example.
[04:12] <ailo> len-dt: That's not the case for me
[04:13] <len-dt> Last change was made in dec 2010.
[04:13] <len-dt> gotta go. Yf needs help with schoolwork.
[04:14] <len-dt> ailo,  may be you ADCs it locks. It locked those on me when I first started it.
[04:17] <ailo> len-dt: Doesn't lock anything for me. the master volume isn't doing anything. But, while mudita24 receives changes to volumes from alsa, volti only seems to look up those during startup, so if I change a volume in mudita24, it won't change in volti
[04:18] <ailo> I never actually tried any of the controls before. I guess I was mostly interested in that it lived in the systray. Yeah, it's not very mature
[04:26] <ailo> len-dt: Perhaps we should instead add a starter for a generic alsa mixer in the volume tray?
[04:27] <ailo> That would improve the chance for people with non standard cards to get their audio working
[05:20] <astraljava> ailo: Backlog is TL;DR, why won't the Pulse mixer do? I'm still partial to getting it more wide-spread, and as it's the way vanilla wants to go, it'd be easier to follow. At least I'd like to get the issues fixed in PA, rather than switch back to alsa.
[05:23] <ailo> astraljava: No ones talking about switching back to Alsa. Just adding asla controls to the PA area
[05:24] <ailo> astraljava: Yes, it would be nice if the PA mixer also had all of the Alsa HW controls :)
[05:25] <astraljava> But you can change what controls the mixer actually affects, so at least on Xfce, you can just add a new mixer applet, and have it control alsa instead. Though I haven't tested, but in theory, this should work, no?
[05:26] <ailo> astraljava: I'm not on XFCE right now, but I believe the mixer started from the volume applet is pavucontrol
[05:26] <astraljava> Adding two control areas in the volume tray just feels messy to me, but maybe that's just me. :)
[05:26] <ailo> Well, it is messy already
[05:27] <astraljava> Yes it is.
[05:27] <astraljava> Yes it is.
[05:27] <ailo> Clear naming would help
[05:27] <astraljava> *smirk*
[05:27] <astraljava> Hmm... will have to play tonight.
[05:31] <astraljava> ailo: Ok, I only now read up on it on mailing list. I'll spend more time on investigating before giving further (lacking) opinions on the matter. :)
[05:40] <ailo> astraljava: No worries. I often miss things because of the same reason. Not easy keeping track of everything being said
[05:40] <ailo> But, if we document everything we want to do in blueprints, that will serve as a good reference point, I think
[05:58] <astraljava> True dat.
[09:28] <ailo> I'm going to the Ubuntu Developer Summit
[09:28] <ailo> So, if anyone has any tips or thoughts, just let me know
[09:28] <ailo> It's next week
[10:07] <knome> ailo, ooh!
[10:07] <knome> ailo, we should meet there then
[10:07] <ailo> knome: Absolutely
[10:08] <ailo> I haven't yet had the chance to look at where, when and how, other than it's in Copenhagen. I'll be staying with my uncle in Malmö hopefulle
[10:08] <astraljava> ailo: Please run the US flavor presentation, then! :)
[10:09] <knome> ailo, heh :)
[10:09] <ailo> astraljava: I was afraid someone would suggest something like that
[10:09] <knome> ailo, we will be in copenhagen most of the day on friday too with pleia2, maybe you want to join us then too :)
[10:09] <astraljava> *smirk*
[10:10] <ailo> knome: I'll probably just be there during the three days
[10:11] <knome> three?
[10:11] <knome> ailo, uds is four days ;)
[10:11] <ailo> Oh, well, four than :)
[10:15] <ailo> knome: I'll see about Friday. I won't know until we get there :)
[10:16] <knome> ailo, hehe. yeah, let's work on the details later
[10:16] <ailo> Just called my uncle. He was sober, and willing to let me stay, so no I only need to book a train ticket
[10:24] <knome> eh:)
[10:29] <astraljava> That's the weirdest looking smiley I've ever seen. What is it supposed depict?
[10:34] <knome> :P
[10:34] <knome> a funny hat?
[10:34] <astraljava> Is it a man wearing a cap, with a cat laying on top of that?
[10:35] <knome> maybe
[10:35] <astraljava> Or maybe pacman is about to eat the man wearing a cap.
[10:44] <knome> ;)
[13:15] <len-dt> astraljava, we don't (so far as I know) want to replace the tray mix app. pavucontrol is probably the best one.
[13:18] <drupin> hey smartboyhw how ya buddy
[13:18] <smartboyhw> Hi drupin 
[13:18] <len-dt> however there are getting to be more USB mutitrack Audio IFs (4 and 8 and more tracks) that work with Linux and it would be nice to have a good ALSA mixer that people could use with them when using jackd.
[13:18] <drupin> nice to see you master
[13:18] <smartboyhw> ailo, youa re sure gonna do that Ubuntu Studio UDS talk:P
[13:20] <smartboyhw> Ah ailo-w actually:P
[13:30] <astraljava> len-dt: Thanks, yeah I got my confusion sorted with ailo already. :)
[13:30]  * smartboyhw finds today's logs more difficult to consume than yesterday:D
[13:30] <drupin> which log master
[13:31] <smartboyhw> drupin, 1. stop calling me as master and 2. The channel logs which you can find in irclogs.ubuntu.com
[13:31] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: I haven't come that far yet, but if it serves a purpose, I will, since from what I understand, I will be the only participant from Ubuntu Studio
[13:31] <ailo-w> I'll be meeting the kernel team about -lowlatency
[13:31] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait aren't scott-work attending?
[13:31] <ailo-w> And have the chance to hang out with the guy(s) from Xubuntu, etc
[13:31] <drupin> ok
[13:32] <astraljava> smartboyhw: I believe he said he couldn't take that trip this time.
[13:32] <smartboyhw> astraljava, ah...... ailo-w good that you are attending, if not there will be NOBODY:D
[13:32] <astraljava> smartboyhw: It's fine, it's not mandatory.
[13:32] <smartboyhw> astraljava, :D
[13:34] <ailo-w> I'm taking the chance, as it's only about 300km from here
[13:34] <smartboyhw> Hey scott-work ailo-w will be attending UDS I think assign him to the Ubuntu studio session on UDS:P
[13:34] <drupin> ohh god so many channels in log
[13:34] <scott-work> morning smartboyhw 
[13:34] <scott-work> len-dt: good email about ugprades, panels, etc
[13:34] <ailo-w> scott-work: morning
[13:35] <scott-work> morning ailo-w 
[13:35] <scott-work> ailo-w: didn't you have a wiki link in your email about brainstorming for R?
[13:35] <scott-work> i coldn't find it
[13:35] <scott-work> although i really thought i had seen one
[13:35] <smartboyhw> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PreliminaryBlueprintsDraft1304
[13:35] <scott-work> len-dt: your email touches on several points that i had thought about and is what i was suggesting about mission statement, etc
[13:36] <ailo-w> scott-work: I'm kind in the middle of cleaning up the wiki. There is a link for it now in UbuntuStudio Team Resources page
[13:36] <scott-work> len-dt: i think we also need to discuss and define clearly what the purpose of the releases
[13:36] <scott-work> len-dt: i.e. lts->lts are production machines and everything between is just for play
[13:37] <scott-work> which means we may choose NOT to support lts->whatever or whatever->lts for upgrades, but we WILL support (somehow) lts->lts upgrades, maybe not
[13:37] <ailo-w> scott-work: Old pages are put under "Old Pages" in this page, temporarily https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamResources
[13:37] <scott-work> ailo-w: i had a 'deprecated pages' somewhere also
[13:37] <smartboyhw> ailo, good page
[13:37] <scott-work> just for the same purpose, we probably should consolidate them
[13:38] <ailo-w> scott-work: There is one in the community wiki, but haven't seen one in the regular wiki
[13:38] <scott-work> ailo-w: is there any talk about when we should sort through the suggestions and pick/prioritize?
[13:38] <scott-work> ailo-w: ah! i believe you are right
[13:38] <smartboyhw> scott-work, on the "start meeting " part in your mail I think the best time should be around this time or so (aka 13:30 UTC to 15:00 UTC since almost everyone is here:P)
[13:40] <ailo-w> scott-work: Now that you're back, I think you should handle that. But, one important thing I will be doing this cycle is to document all the steps during the development process. So, I'd appreciate if we could go through many of the things you and others do during next cycle
[13:40] <smartboyhw> scott-work, I wonder about something: Can we revive https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReportingPage back ?
[13:40] <ailo-w> scott-work: Like, when and how the blueprints should be listed
[13:45] <ailo-w> scott-work: Yea, so, I am attending UDS, as it's close to my home terf
[13:46] <smartboyhw> Yeah when UDS goes to Asia I will attend:P
[13:46] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, you live in Europe right?
[13:46] <ailo-w> scott-work: Never mind the spelling :). You were there last year, correct?
[13:46] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Sweden, yes
[13:47] <ailo-w> scott-work: Or, this year even? Anyway, I just wanted to let you know, and if you have any suggestions, just let me know
[13:47] <knome> ailo-w, blueprints should be filed under correct names and then be proposed to the "track leads" so they can schedule them
[13:47] <ailo-w> knome: Yeah. I think scott-work will do that. So far, we're just brainstorming, and collecting ideas.
[13:48] <knome> ailo-w, oh, ok.
[13:48]  * smartboyhw is thinking of what to add to the blueprint suggestions:D
[13:48] <ailo-w> scott-work: I'm meeting up with the kernel team to discuss -lowlatency. A new source tree for Precise is already done. I will be testing it this afternoon. 
[13:49] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, didn't you already take over the maintenance of precise -lowlatency ?
[13:49] <ailo-w> scott-work: We'll be going through the specifics of uploading the source, etc. So, by the end of UDS, I'll probably have that item in place.
[13:50] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Nope, but we were discussing it.
[13:50] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, oh.....I thought you already did:P
[13:50] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: The kernel for Precise hasn't been updated for a few months now, but will be soon :)
[13:51] <ailo-w> Something like 100+ bug fixes since then
[13:51] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, yeah saw it in kernel.ubuntu.com/git for the ubuntu-precise-lowlatency.git by apw:D
[13:53] <ailo-w> Ok, busy day. Going home. bbs
[14:04] <len-dt> scott-work, our support for graphics needs some work. We may have to work with xfce devs to get what we need.
[14:05] <len-dt> the display settings app needs to have color support as well as dual monitor support
[14:06] <len-dt> in some ways it may be easier to use a gnome wm with the xfce panels.
[14:08] <len-dt> But I should at least play with some of this stuff as is. I think getting rid of thunar as a desktop would be a good idea though.
[14:08]  * len-dt has a wandering mind this morning.
[14:08] <smartboyhw> len-dt, LOL
[14:09] <len-dt> we do need to be able to have the right ICC file loaded at login though
[14:10] <len-dt> The user should not have to write a script to do so.
[14:10] <smartboyhw> len-dt, if the user has to write a script they will not use Ubuntu Studio, so let's forget about that:P
[14:11] <len-dt> Having xfce display settings able to do dual monitors would be nice too... as it saves the settings from session to session.
[14:11] <len-dt> smartboyhw, that is why we need to do it for them and have a gui to set it up
[14:11] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:12] <len-dt> I am just not sure if we should have one big control app to do audio/graphics/video set up or smaller applets for each
[14:13] <len-dt> I think smaller applets so the right one can be part of the associated meta.
[14:13] <len-dt> scott-work, I think we need to put the same energy into our other workflows as we have to audio
[14:14]  * len-dt is off to work.
[14:14] <len-dt> bye all
[14:14] <smartboyhw> len-dt, bye
[14:28] <scott-work> ailo: i was at the last uds, yes
[14:33] <scott-work> ailo: i don't mind creating and filing the blueprints
[14:33] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i would like to get back to the reporting, yes
[14:33] <smartboyhw> scott-work, yeah
[14:33] <scott-work> ailo: good news about the kernel, that is awesome actually
[14:34] <scott-work> len-dt: i really thought there was an icc manager, and i thought we included it, although i suppose it might be a command line application
[14:36] <scott-work> len-dt: agreed about the other workflows and giving it thought, i am hoping to translate my experience with video and graphics into an improved workflow for each, not great perhaps, but certainly better, although i probably will not be able to help much with photography or publishing at this point
[14:37] <ailo> scott-work: Actually, I would like to do the blueprints myself, if it's ok with you? Now that I've started the process. Deadline at around feature freeze, right?
[14:37] <scott-work> ailo: oh sure, that would be awesome
[14:37] <smartboyhw> ailo, er shouldn't that be the project lead's job? 
[14:37] <smartboyhw> Anyway scott-work says yes
[14:37] <smartboyhw> I don't think the deadline is feature freeze though
[14:38] <smartboyhw> ailo, better to ask skaet on #ubuntu-release
[14:38] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i would expect that we, as a group, will decide on what we want to do, so getting the blueprints together is more of a technicality at that point
[14:38] <scott-work> but i really want us to focus on making reasonable goals this cycle
[14:38] <ailo> smartboyhw: Well, let me rephrase. Feature Definition Freeze
[14:39] <ailo> It's Nov 22
[14:39] <smartboyhw> scott-work, at the moment I think the work items are great, just that we need to decide who should work on it sicne last cycle we got a lot of POSTPONED items (except len-dt )
[14:39] <smartboyhw> ailo, ah OK now I understand:P
[14:39] <scott-work> a good process might be to aggregate the list, make a first pass at what we think would be good, have people commit to tasks, and then re-evaluate the list per commitments
[14:40] <scott-work> if we don't have commitments for tasks then we might drop those for this cycle
[14:40] <ailo> I think everyone will do what they know and like to do, and we just make sure not two people are doing the same work twice
[14:40] <smartboyhw> scott-work, since you wanted to start meetings: Maybe we should plan a meeting to approve those workitems on the blueprints and that who should do it
[14:41] <scott-work> smartboyhw: that is a good idea
[14:41] <smartboyhw> :D
[14:41] <scott-work> although i am not sure that during the week, at least at this current time, is good for me to attend meetings, much less lead them
[14:41] <ailo> Somewhere around one week before feature definition freeze
[14:41] <smartboyhw> scott-work, maybe ailo should lead then
[14:42] <scott-work> i cannot commit to contiguous uninterrupted time at any point throughout the work day
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, look at this
 smartboyhw,  blueprints should be registered and accepted prior to the start of UDS if they need to be discussed there.   Otherwise, blueprints are accepted until planning freeze.
 oops... s/planning freeze/feature definition freeze/
[14:45] <smartboyhw> ailo, so you are correct 
[14:46] <scott-work> i've got to do some work for a bit
[14:46] <smartboyhw> bye scott-work 
[14:46] <ailo> smartboyhw: We were talking about using social channels for news reporting. Anything Ubuntu Studio related, really. There are channels called Ubuntu Studio on facebook, and g+
[14:47] <ailo> smartboyhw: Maybe you would like to be a part of generating the content?
[14:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, for g+
[14:47] <smartboyhw> I don't have facebook but I do have g_
[14:47] <smartboyhw> *g+
[14:47] <smartboyhw> ailo, I can help:D
[14:48] <ailo> smartboyhw: Not from your own account. Scott is the admin of those accounts. But someone needs to produce the content too
[14:48] <smartboyhw> ailo, I can
[14:48] <smartboyhw> I do write things on 2buntu.com (aka the unofficial Ask Ubuntu guys blog)
[14:49] <ailo> Those would be official Ubuntu Studio channels, but from my point of view, and I'm sure I'm not alone, the content could be quite liberal, as long as it's somehow related to Ubuntu Studio and linux multimedia
[14:49] <smartboyhw> So I have some experience
[14:49] <smartboyhw> ailo, :D
[14:49] <ailo> smartboyhw: Ok, well. That is one of the blueprint items we need to go through during this cycle anyway
[14:50] <smartboyhw> ailo, :D
[14:55] <smartboyhw> ailo, for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PostRelease you said "Update topics on ubuntustudio IRC channels" that is real difficult, only some people have op rights (I don't think you have too)
[15:05] <ailo> smartboyhw: Optimally it would fall under one persons responsibilities to do those things
[15:06] <ailo> smartboyhw: It's like playing football. If everyone is chasing the ball, who is guarding the goal?
[15:06] <ailo> smartboyhw: Everyone does their bit, to which they are assigned. Someone should with the proper rights handles the irc channels
[15:07] <ailo> smartboyhw: I know it is not always like that, as you have seen. 
[15:07] <ailo> smartboyhw: But, in general, it is IMO the only sane approach to team work
[15:08] <ailo> smartboyhw: You are young, ambitious, and willing to participate
[15:09] <ailo> smartboyhw: My advice to you is to find work items that are suitable for you. Either ones that already exist, or you suggest new ones, and then focus on them
[15:09] <smartboyhw> ailo, ok.....Just wonder who CAN do the job.....
[15:10] <ailo> smartboyhw: Do what job?
[15:10] <smartboyhw> ailo, the "change the topic of IRC channels"
[15:11] <ailo> smartboyhw: A few people. I haven't kept track of that.
[15:11] <holstein> smartboyhw: i can change the topic in #ubuntustudio
[15:11] <smartboyhw> ailo, give it to holstein then
[15:11] <holstein> smartboyhw: just ping me or whatever.. this is the first cycle i have been able to, and forgot :)
[15:11] <smartboyhw> holstein, LOL
[15:11] <holstein> i used to ping someone and ask
[15:12] <smartboyhw> bye ailo holstein scott-work 
[15:12] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i think holstein, astraljava , and myself can change the IRC topic now, in both channels
[15:12] <scott-work> by smartboyhw 
[15:12] <holstein> smartboyhw: i wouldnt worry about the topic here too much
[15:12] <smartboyhw> gotcha sleep worrying about the Open Week session tmr:P
[15:12] <holstein> smartboyhw: o/
[15:12] <smartboyhw> ailo, prepare for your session on 17:30 UTC:P
[15:13] <ailo> smartboyhw: Don't worry about me :)
[15:13] <ailo> smartboyhw: Good luck tomorrow
[15:13] <smartboyhw> ailo, OK. Just that you need to prepare (as told by many people who have done the sessions before). Bye
[18:05] <ailo> Seems like I messed up the IRC session
[18:05] <ailo> Well, one learns
[18:06] <knome> hehe:)
[19:00] <scott-work> ailo: if you are going to UDS-R, would you mind doing a very short presentation on where ubuntu studio is going?
[19:05] <ailo> scott-work: No problem. I already mailed jorge
[19:08] <ailo> scott-work: It's only something like 5 mins, right?
[19:13] <scott-work> ailo: cool. i think it might even be less than that. we were supposed to do 2.5 minutes last time
[19:36] <ailo> scott-work: Yeah, that's almost a little comical
[19:37] <ailo> scott-work: I can do some kind of draft during the coming couple of days, and present it to you
[19:37] <ailo> In case you have ideas and opinions
[19:38] <scott-work> ailo: to be honest, i think this fits in nicely with deriving a roadmap for the next few cycle
[19:42] <ailo> scott-work: That is something that I wouldn't mind discussing actually
[19:43] <ailo> scott-work: A roadmap for the future that is
[19:44] <ailo> scott-work: One of my main concersn at the moment is how do we get more activity into Ubuntu Studio development. Especially how do we integrate people who are willing to help, but not experienced in any of the sort of tasks we do, plus the structure of the whole things. 
[19:46] <scott-work> like someone mentioned in the blueprint planning page, having things spelled out (in blueprints, roadmaps, documentation) will probably lower the threshold for involvement and encourage more people to help....hopefully
[19:46] <ailo> scott-work: So, what I see as an answer to that problem is of course communicating outwards, and clearly so, that we need help, and that anyone can help. But, before we can do that.
[19:46] <ailo> ..we need docs, right
[19:46] <ailo> So, that is my main priority for this cycle
[19:47] <scott-work> so this cycle could be setting documentation for dev and testing as main priorities
[19:47] <scott-work> oh, hehe, you typed the same basically :P
[19:47] <ailo> :)
[19:50] <ailo> scott-work: About workflow applications. That is a bit different I think. For that, you need software developer(s). If you can find someone that is willing to do the coding, we already have willing testers, and people in the community who can provide good feedback
[19:51] <ailo> scott-work: Another thing, which I adressed a bit during the Open Week IRC chat, is we should become better att communicating upstream about bugs and issues
[19:52] <ailo> On that part, we do need docs for people who don't know how that all connects
[19:52] <ailo> And, we need people willing to spend time on it too
[19:53] <ailo> For one thing, we have a pretty serious bug with qjackctl + jackdbus, which is existing on both 12.04 and 12.10
[19:53] <ailo> That kind of thing we should be able to solve, one way or another.
[19:54] <ailo> Well, those kind of bugs don't happen that often, but when they do, it would be nice if we could squash them
[19:55] <scott-work> ailo: very true about the bugs
[19:57] <scott-work> ailo: for the work flow applications, i feel very strongly about that we should develop a specification for this, especially if non-ubuntu studio developers are going to work on it
[19:57] <scott-work> i would be most happy to help in this regard
[19:57] <ailo> scott-work: Sounds like a good idea to me
[19:57] <scott-work> i should note that i am beginning to work on an animation that would show how i think a few things could work that users would appreciate
[19:58] <ailo> That should be most helpful in deed
[19:58] <scott-work> this is "pie in the sky" ideas. not everyone will agree with them and some might not be practical to develop
[19:58] <scott-work> BUT, it will give an indication of how things _could_ change, and this might inspire someone as well :)
[20:00] <ailo> I've done some UI developing, and even if I get something done which I'm pleased with, if I start again from scratch, it usually ends up being a bit different and improved each time
[20:00] <ailo> But, you gotta start somewhere
[20:01] <ailo> Impossible to plan things like that in advance. Each time you try it in practice, your idea of it changes
[20:02] <ailo> scott-work: Like Eisenhower said, "Plans are worthless, but planning is everything"
[20:04] <ailo> scott-work: Would you mind if I add your blueprint suggestions to the blueprint draft wiki page? I wouldn't mind just going through everything, just to keep track of things
[20:05] <scott-work> ailo: absolutely, i'll be added some of my other things to it tonight or tomorrow
[20:06]  * scott-work printed the wiki and the email thread and has correlated both and made notes of things to add
[20:08] <ailo> scott-work: I won't do anything just now, but sometime tomorrow morning (just about to hit the hay sack). When America sleeps, and Europeans are silently working (for some strange reason the channels are awefully quite during European work hours)
[20:09] <scott-work> hehe, i won't be doing anything for several hours at the soonest
[20:09] <ailo> I don't know if that means Europeans are actually busy slaving, or if they're just very asocial sort of people
[20:09] <scott-work> but i am going home early, it's been quite a day today at work
[20:09] <scott-work> i might log in to irc later tonight though