[16:25] <ailo> knome: I'll be in around from Sunday to Saturday, so I'll gladly join in on whatever Friday activities you had planned
[16:26] <knome> ailo, pleia2 wants to go to the zoo, and that works for me, as long as the weather isn't totally sucky
[16:26] <knome> ailo, i'm leaving friday night myself, so some restrictions on stuff
[16:27] <pleia2> elephants!
[16:27] <ailo> knome: I've never been there, so that might be fun. -- Aha :)
[16:27] <pleia2> I didn't see any in ghana, only monkeys (and goats and chickens...)
[16:27] <knome> pleia2, oh hi!
[16:28]  * pleia2 checks on flights
[16:28] <knome> pleia2, btw, we're having lunch with stgraber and highvoltage some day
[16:28] <pleia2> yay :D
[16:28] <knome> just had stgraber in PM
[16:29] <knome> maybe ailo should join us for the "flavor" lunch ;)
[16:29] <pleia2> knome: you wanted to chat before UDS, I'm thinking I can do that some time on friday
[16:30] <pleia2> I don't know when, my sleep schedule will be a mess
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, well i was thinking about the schedules generally
[16:30] <ailo> knome: Sure, why not? As long as they have a vegetarian flavors too
[16:30] <knome> ailo, i'm sure they do, that's the canonical offered lunch :)
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, and xubuntu sessions
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, is there some sessions where you want to be around?
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, if you could list me those, i could schedule the xubuntu sessions somewhere
[16:31] <pleia2> I need to look at the schedule...
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, yeah, and the thing is that it's constantly evolving
[16:31] <pleia2> but honestly the schedule is crazy and changes every 5 minutes even during uds
[16:31] <knome> pleia2, but i'll make sure i'll avoid at least the ubuntu women sessions
[16:31] <pleia2> yeah, the UW session should be on thursday
[16:32] <knome> pleia2, of course... but i'm thinking we should schedule 2-3 xubuntu sessions just to have some space to run them on
[16:32] <knome> (if we don't schedule, there might not be any rooms available)
[16:32] <pleia2> suppose I should go t othe leadership summit tuesday afternoon
[16:33] <pleia2> monday morning looks boring
[16:33] <knome> leadership mini-summit?
[16:33] <pleia2> yeah
[16:34] <pleia2> I need to talk dholbach into coming out of it with a document or something, it's been all echo-chamber at past UDSes and that makes me grumpy
[16:34] <knome> qa community planning!
[16:34] <knome> that's relatively interesting, and would be good to get to know balloons personally
[16:34] <pleia2> ah yeah, we should go to that
[16:35] <knome> pleia2, so there will be no free time for you tomorrow?
[16:35] <pleia2> it might move though, it's against another QA session
[16:35] <knome> yeah, i know
[16:35] <pleia2> I'm on an airplane mostly
[16:35] <knome> i should still register to it in launchpad
[16:35] <knome> are you going to readjust your sleeping rhythm meanwhile or just go with the EU timezones?
[16:36] <knome> MEH I SAY
[16:36] <knome> why isn't there no links to the LP blueprints from the uds schedule
[16:36] <knome> hard to register yourself to the sessions
[16:36] <pleia2> the messed up sleeping from the planes is making planning such things impossible
[16:36] <knome> oh, stars!
[16:36] <knome> heh
[16:37] <knome> oh cool
[16:37] <pleia2> so I fly out in 4 hours, I get home around midnight UTC
[16:37] <pleia2> thursday night/friday morning, 4PM local time in california
[16:38] <pleia2> it's a long ride home
[16:38] <knome> "testing in cadence" 16UTC monday?
[16:39] <knome> "brainstorming how future releases can be improved" 9UTC tuesday?
[16:39] <knome> "qa testing campaigns" 10UTC tuesday?
[16:40] <knome> "qa weather report" 12UTC tuesday?
[16:43] <knome> whole wednesday looks really boring
[16:44] <knome> "making community very obvious on the desktop" 10UTC wed 
[16:44] <knome> or actually, CET
[16:44] <knome> is that different?
[16:44] <knome> whatever
[16:45] <pleia2> :)
[16:46] <pleia2> I just let the schedule land where it is, over-planning for UDS is just headachey
[16:46] <pleia2> subscribe to ones you want, it'll shuffle out somewhat reasonably
[16:46] <pleia2> and if there is a really serious conflict you can always talk to track leads, or make pleia2 go to a session and take notes :P
[16:47] <knome> lol
[16:47] <knome> i'm thinking that if we don't have really differing interests, it might benefit that we both go
[16:47] <pleia2> yeah
[16:47] <knome> i'm thinking i could attend the community roundtables on the mornings
[16:48] <pleia2> that's what I tend to do
[17:05] <apm1> why did you guys ship the 3.5 kernel in 12.10 ? any specific reason other than user's demand for newer hardware compatibility ?
[17:05] <knome> apm1, because ubuntu ships that.
[17:05] <knome> apm1, you got to remember not all decisions are done by the xubuntu team
[17:06] <apm1> knome, so you mindlessly follow ubuntu , that makes me wonder if you guys are really a different distro from ubuntu or you are just a spin off ?
[17:07] <knome> apm1, we are a spin off in a way; not following ubuntu in eg. kernel choices would mean massive amounts of work
[17:07] <knome> apm1, workforce is welcome
[17:09] <apm1> knome, so what you guys actually do is "take a ubuntu minimal and stick our own tweaked light-dm and xfce " and install some light end user apps ? 
[17:09] <knome> apm1, something like that.
[17:09] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument has more details ;)
[17:10] <pleia2> but we are very clearly Ubuntu-based, we're just a "flavor" of Ubuntu
[17:10] <knome> yes, that's the idea
[17:10] <knome> :)
[17:10] <pleia2> (whether that means we're a different distro or not depends on how you define distro)
[17:13] <apm1> pleia2, depending on ubuntu is depending on canonical , depending on canonical = depending on a money centric co-orporation , i.e destroying the design philosophy of free software :(
[17:13] <knome> apm1, if you want to see it as that, then ok.
[17:13] <pleia2> your logic is very strange :)
[17:13] <apm1> honestly the way bodhi linux is going , i would love to see xubuntu doing that :)
[17:14] <pleia2> I work for a company and am paid for my debian work, so I guess I destroy it too
[17:14] <knome> apm1, why not just use bodhi linux, if they're doing it right?
[17:14] <knome> pleia2, traitor!!
[17:14] <pleia2> hehe
[17:15] <knome> we've never said we don't depend on ubuntu, or that we're trying to be something completely different
[17:15] <knome> the xubuntu website starts with the words: Xubuntu is a community‑developed, Ubuntu‑based ...
[17:16] <apm1> pleia2, no no earning money is not destroying free software but , implimanting features that ubuntu puts up to please more customers which subsequently bloats the distro that is destroying :(
[17:16]  * drc checks the clock to see if it's troll feeding time...nope...gets out the whip, chair and Indiana Jone's hat.
[17:16] <pleia2> drc: good point
[17:16] <knome> apm1, ubuntu isn't directly putting anything to xubuntu that makes them money.
[17:17] <knome> but drc and pleia2 are probably right.
[17:17]  * apm1 tells drc he is not trolling , and is willing to have an intellectual discussion
[17:17] <knome> apm1, what has ubuntu/canonical put in xubuntu that makes them money?
[17:17] <knome> apm1, or what bloats the system?
[17:17]  * drc points apm1 to #xubuntu-offtopic
[17:18] <apm1> knome, imho for starters 3.5 ubuntu devs compiled kernel :(
[17:18] <knome> drc, well i specifically directed him here. i'll tell him to go -offtopic when he gets offtopic ;)
[17:18] <drc> opps :(
[17:18] <knome> apm1, is being current bad?
[17:18] <knome> apm1, maybe you should use debian stable :)
[17:18] <apm1> eing unstable is bad , and i am using debian 
[17:18] <drc> or slackware
[17:19] <knome> apm1, as i've said, maybe debian is "your" distro then :)
[17:20] <apm1> look guys i am not here to offend you , i was actually hoping to make an impression on your minds , that will help you choose the right tools for the next xubuntu release , don't see my words as an altercation starter but see them as a review stated directly to the devs :)
[17:21] <knome> apm1, i understand, but there isn't not much we can do about eg. kernel versions with this team
[17:23] <apm1> hypothetically ? if i decide to do the kernel work for xubuntu , and i do it stable enough will you guys then unanimously agree to drop the ubuntu inflicted kernel 
[17:23] <knome> apm1, maybe. that needs to be discussed.
[17:23] <pleia2> honestly we barely have the dev power to keep the basics of xubuntu going as it is
[17:23] <knome> apm1, what's the goal in that, what's the reasoning behind that?
[17:23] <knome> apm1, why would we do that?
[17:23] <pleia2> so if you could recruit a kernel team we could consider it :)
[17:24] <apm1> knome, are you the xubuntu project lead ?
[17:24] <knome> apm1, i am
[17:25] <apm1> knome, are you also a canonical employee ?
[17:25] <knome> apm1, no.
[17:25] <knome> apm1, neither is pleia2, if you thought so.
[17:26] <apm1> knome, well sorry to doubt you , but if you guys are canonical free then we can talk abt getting a kernel team :)
[17:26] <apm1> hmm , so we would need stats first 
[17:27] <knome> apm1, you would need to justify why we need another kernel first
[17:27] <apm1> knome, well because i think the current one isn't as stable 
[17:28] <apm1> as the previous 3.2 
[17:28] <knome> apm1, i've never had a kernel fail in ubuntu.
[17:28] <apm1> kernel panics on xubuntu made me switch to debian :(
[17:29] <knome> apm1, when you are justifying us why we need another kernel, please remember what our target group of users are too.
[17:29] <knome> apm1, you can read more on that, and lots of other topics, from the strategy document
[17:30] <apm1> look since you guys already have a strategy planned , then who am i to question it :(
[17:30] <pleia2> apm1: we also need more testers, always need more testers, if you have hardware that's prone to kernel panics you'd be a useful tester *before* releases
[17:30] <knome> apm1, we don't exactly have a kernel strategy, but the kernel stuff needs to be in line with the existing strategy.
[17:31] <pleia2> the secret benefit of testing is that your hardware works great at release time ;)
[17:31] <apm1> knome, but you biggest strategy point of "being ubuntu compliant" will interfere with that :(
[17:31] <knome> yeah, with non-ubuntu kernel we'd need a lot more testers, we're struggling to do even the basic testing now
[17:32] <knome> apm1, in that case, you probably shouldn't waste your time with xubuntu
[17:32] <knome> apm1, i mean, all the things point that we are really close to ubuntu, even the distro/flavor name!
[17:32] <apm1> ok then i shall leave you guys now in peace , sorry to bother you :)
[17:32] <knome> np
[17:33] <bluesabre_> O.O
[17:33] <knome> bluesabre?:)
[17:33] <bluesabre_> hiya knome!
[17:33] <knome> astraljava, there's some wacky smiley for you ^
[17:34] <bluesabre_> hiya pleia2
[17:35] <bluesabre_> I wouldn't mind working for canonical, if they paid me to do xubuntu stuff :)
[17:35] <knome> heh
[17:36] <bluesabre_> getting ready for UDS?
[17:36]  * pleia2 off to airport
[17:36] <knome> slowly
[17:36] <knome> pleia2, have a good flight!
[17:40] <mr_pouit> they can't even pay a real release manager anymore, so I doubt they would pay for xubuntu :{
[17:41] <knome> heh, yeah
[17:41] <knome> and they aren't paying for kubuntu either
[17:41] <knome> and i'm not sure it's about being able to pay
[19:03] <astraljava> knome: Now you're just showing off.
[19:03] <astraljava> wut?! Can'
[19:04] <astraljava> sry, "can't pay a real release manager?"
[20:08] <knome> astraljava, skaet is not paid by canonical for R
[20:08] <knome> bbl