=== yofel_ is now known as yofel [16:25] knome: I'll be in around from Sunday to Saturday, so I'll gladly join in on whatever Friday activities you had planned [16:26] ailo, pleia2 wants to go to the zoo, and that works for me, as long as the weather isn't totally sucky [16:26] ailo, i'm leaving friday night myself, so some restrictions on stuff [16:27] elephants! [16:27] knome: I've never been there, so that might be fun. -- Aha :) [16:27] I didn't see any in ghana, only monkeys (and goats and chickens...) [16:27] pleia2, oh hi! [16:28] * pleia2 checks on flights [16:28] pleia2, btw, we're having lunch with stgraber and highvoltage some day [16:28] yay :D [16:28] just had stgraber in PM [16:29] maybe ailo should join us for the "flavor" lunch ;) [16:29] knome: you wanted to chat before UDS, I'm thinking I can do that some time on friday [16:30] I don't know when, my sleep schedule will be a mess [16:30] pleia2, well i was thinking about the schedules generally [16:30] knome: Sure, why not? As long as they have a vegetarian flavors too [16:30] ailo, i'm sure they do, that's the canonical offered lunch :) [16:30] pleia2, and xubuntu sessions [16:30] pleia2, is there some sessions where you want to be around? [16:31] pleia2, if you could list me those, i could schedule the xubuntu sessions somewhere [16:31] I need to look at the schedule... [16:31] pleia2, yeah, and the thing is that it's constantly evolving [16:31] but honestly the schedule is crazy and changes every 5 minutes even during uds [16:31] pleia2, but i'll make sure i'll avoid at least the ubuntu women sessions [16:31] yeah, the UW session should be on thursday [16:32] pleia2, of course... but i'm thinking we should schedule 2-3 xubuntu sessions just to have some space to run them on [16:32] (if we don't schedule, there might not be any rooms available) [16:32] suppose I should go t othe leadership summit tuesday afternoon [16:33] monday morning looks boring [16:33] leadership mini-summit? [16:33] yeah [16:34] I need to talk dholbach into coming out of it with a document or something, it's been all echo-chamber at past UDSes and that makes me grumpy [16:34] qa community planning! [16:34] that's relatively interesting, and would be good to get to know balloons personally [16:34] ah yeah, we should go to that [16:35] pleia2, so there will be no free time for you tomorrow? [16:35] it might move though, it's against another QA session [16:35] yeah, i know [16:35] I'm on an airplane mostly [16:35] i should still register to it in launchpad [16:35] are you going to readjust your sleeping rhythm meanwhile or just go with the EU timezones? [16:36] MEH I SAY [16:36] why isn't there no links to the LP blueprints from the uds schedule [16:36] hard to register yourself to the sessions [16:36] the messed up sleeping from the planes is making planning such things impossible [16:36] oh, stars! [16:36] heh [16:37] oh cool [16:37] so I fly out in 4 hours, I get home around midnight UTC [16:37] thursday night/friday morning, 4PM local time in california [16:38] it's a long ride home [16:38] "testing in cadence" 16UTC monday? [16:39] "brainstorming how future releases can be improved" 9UTC tuesday? [16:39] "qa testing campaigns" 10UTC tuesday? [16:40] "qa weather report" 12UTC tuesday? [16:43] whole wednesday looks really boring [16:44] "making community very obvious on the desktop" 10UTC wed [16:44] or actually, CET [16:44] is that different? [16:44] whatever [16:45] :) [16:46] I just let the schedule land where it is, over-planning for UDS is just headachey [16:46] subscribe to ones you want, it'll shuffle out somewhat reasonably [16:46] and if there is a really serious conflict you can always talk to track leads, or make pleia2 go to a session and take notes :P [16:47] lol [16:47] i'm thinking that if we don't have really differing interests, it might benefit that we both go [16:47] yeah [16:47] i'm thinking i could attend the community roundtables on the mornings [16:48] that's what I tend to do [17:05] why did you guys ship the 3.5 kernel in 12.10 ? any specific reason other than user's demand for newer hardware compatibility ? [17:05] apm1, because ubuntu ships that. [17:05] apm1, you got to remember not all decisions are done by the xubuntu team [17:06] knome, so you mindlessly follow ubuntu , that makes me wonder if you guys are really a different distro from ubuntu or you are just a spin off ? [17:07] apm1, we are a spin off in a way; not following ubuntu in eg. kernel choices would mean massive amounts of work [17:07] apm1, workforce is welcome [17:09] knome, so what you guys actually do is "take a ubuntu minimal and stick our own tweaked light-dm and xfce " and install some light end user apps ? [17:09] apm1, something like that. [17:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument has more details ;) [17:10] but we are very clearly Ubuntu-based, we're just a "flavor" of Ubuntu [17:10] yes, that's the idea [17:10] :) [17:10] (whether that means we're a different distro or not depends on how you define distro) [17:13] pleia2, depending on ubuntu is depending on canonical , depending on canonical = depending on a money centric co-orporation , i.e destroying the design philosophy of free software :( [17:13] apm1, if you want to see it as that, then ok. [17:13] your logic is very strange :) [17:13] honestly the way bodhi linux is going , i would love to see xubuntu doing that :) [17:14] I work for a company and am paid for my debian work, so I guess I destroy it too [17:14] apm1, why not just use bodhi linux, if they're doing it right? [17:14] pleia2, traitor!! [17:14] hehe [17:15] we've never said we don't depend on ubuntu, or that we're trying to be something completely different [17:15] the xubuntu website starts with the words: Xubuntu is a community‑developed, Ubuntu‑based ... [17:16] pleia2, no no earning money is not destroying free software but , implimanting features that ubuntu puts up to please more customers which subsequently bloats the distro that is destroying :( [17:16] * drc checks the clock to see if it's troll feeding time...nope...gets out the whip, chair and Indiana Jone's hat. [17:16] drc: good point [17:16] apm1, ubuntu isn't directly putting anything to xubuntu that makes them money. [17:17] but drc and pleia2 are probably right. [17:17] * apm1 tells drc he is not trolling , and is willing to have an intellectual discussion [17:17] apm1, what has ubuntu/canonical put in xubuntu that makes them money? [17:17] apm1, or what bloats the system? [17:17] * drc points apm1 to #xubuntu-offtopic [17:18] knome, imho for starters 3.5 ubuntu devs compiled kernel :( [17:18] drc, well i specifically directed him here. i'll tell him to go -offtopic when he gets offtopic ;) [17:18] opps :( [17:18] apm1, is being current bad? [17:18] apm1, maybe you should use debian stable :) [17:18] eing unstable is bad , and i am using debian [17:18] or slackware [17:19] apm1, as i've said, maybe debian is "your" distro then :) [17:20] look guys i am not here to offend you , i was actually hoping to make an impression on your minds , that will help you choose the right tools for the next xubuntu release , don't see my words as an altercation starter but see them as a review stated directly to the devs :) [17:21] apm1, i understand, but there isn't not much we can do about eg. kernel versions with this team [17:23] hypothetically ? if i decide to do the kernel work for xubuntu , and i do it stable enough will you guys then unanimously agree to drop the ubuntu inflicted kernel [17:23] apm1, maybe. that needs to be discussed. [17:23] honestly we barely have the dev power to keep the basics of xubuntu going as it is [17:23] apm1, what's the goal in that, what's the reasoning behind that? [17:23] apm1, why would we do that? [17:23] so if you could recruit a kernel team we could consider it :) [17:24] knome, are you the xubuntu project lead ? [17:24] apm1, i am [17:25] knome, are you also a canonical employee ? [17:25] apm1, no. [17:25] apm1, neither is pleia2, if you thought so. [17:26] knome, well sorry to doubt you , but if you guys are canonical free then we can talk abt getting a kernel team :) [17:26] hmm , so we would need stats first [17:27] apm1, you would need to justify why we need another kernel first [17:27] knome, well because i think the current one isn't as stable [17:28] as the previous 3.2 [17:28] apm1, i've never had a kernel fail in ubuntu. [17:28] kernel panics on xubuntu made me switch to debian :( [17:29] apm1, when you are justifying us why we need another kernel, please remember what our target group of users are too. [17:29] apm1, you can read more on that, and lots of other topics, from the strategy document [17:30] look since you guys already have a strategy planned , then who am i to question it :( [17:30] apm1: we also need more testers, always need more testers, if you have hardware that's prone to kernel panics you'd be a useful tester *before* releases [17:30] apm1, we don't exactly have a kernel strategy, but the kernel stuff needs to be in line with the existing strategy. [17:31] the secret benefit of testing is that your hardware works great at release time ;) [17:31] knome, but you biggest strategy point of "being ubuntu compliant" will interfere with that :( [17:31] yeah, with non-ubuntu kernel we'd need a lot more testers, we're struggling to do even the basic testing now [17:32] apm1, in that case, you probably shouldn't waste your time with xubuntu [17:32] apm1, i mean, all the things point that we are really close to ubuntu, even the distro/flavor name! [17:32] ok then i shall leave you guys now in peace , sorry to bother you :) [17:32] np [17:33] O.O [17:33] bluesabre?:) [17:33] hiya knome! [17:33] astraljava, there's some wacky smiley for you ^ [17:34] hiya pleia2 [17:35] I wouldn't mind working for canonical, if they paid me to do xubuntu stuff :) [17:35] heh [17:36] getting ready for UDS? [17:36] * pleia2 off to airport [17:36] slowly [17:36] pleia2, have a good flight! [17:40] they can't even pay a real release manager anymore, so I doubt they would pay for xubuntu :{ [17:41] heh, yeah [17:41] and they aren't paying for kubuntu either [17:41] and i'm not sure it's about being able to pay [19:03] knome: Now you're just showing off. [19:03] wut?! Can' [19:04] sry, "can't pay a real release manager?" [20:08] astraljava, skaet is not paid by canonical for R [20:08] bbl