[00:02] <doomlord> is it possible to get either in ubuntu/unity:  [1]scale all windows from all desktops,  [2] click on launcher icon does scale all application windows from all desktops;
[00:03] <doomlord> [3] expo combined with scale (kde does it by default i think)
[00:03] <doomlord> either of those 3 options would increase my contentment (i do generally like unity)
[00:05] <doomlord> i keep alternating between 2x2 and 3x3 desktops ... can't decide between more space and more resolution in overview- i think I'm really after more scale options
[00:05] <doomlord> (i've tried gnome-shell but dont like it as much as unity so far)
[00:07] <doomlord> i like having 3x3 because i can leave a load of things maximize... with "expo+scale" one could put all the maximized windows in one corner and still distinguish between them AND have good resolution for the remaining desktops
[00:59] <xnox> doomlord: the right answer is to get dual screen monitors =)
[01:03] <doomlord> yeah good point, but maximum use of 1 screen is more energy efficient
[01:04] <doomlord> also laptop
[01:05] <doomlord> osx snow leopard with its expose/spaces/multitouch trackpad combo made one display genuinely as productive as 2
[01:26] <doomlord> is there an option to make the globalmenu appear permanently (mac style) rather than toggle
[01:34] <joosen> hi every body
[01:34] <joosen> have anyone use gnome remix?
[01:35] <joosen> someone hear me?
[01:35] <sarnold> joosen: you're coming through clear :) it's just a bit late for US and early for europe...
[01:35] <joosen> sorry, in thailand at 8.35 am.
[01:36] <joosen> you don't sleep?
[01:37] <joosen> I can talk with you or not?
[01:39] <sarnold> I'm going to dinner :) but keep talking, it'll be in scrollback for people to see as they come or go :)
[01:40] <sarnold> (1840 here in oregon, usa ;)
[01:41] <joosen> oh! bye! please enjoy your dinner.
[01:41] <doomlord> i'm nocturnal here in the uk
[01:41] <joosen> hie
[01:42] <joosen> hi
[01:42] <joosen> you use the ubuntu 12.10 or not?
[01:42] <doomlord> 12.04 is what i installed, i think it upgrades itself
[01:42] <joosen> 12.10 now is release.
[01:45] <joosen> someone use ubuntu 12.10 server or not?
[01:53] <doomlord> servver, no
[01:54] <joosen> ubuntu don't optimize with the server or not?
[01:55] <joosen> Maybe centos more optimize than.
[01:56] <doomlord> no idea sorry :)
[01:57] <joosen> you use ubuntu desktop and windows 8 or not?
[01:59] <doomlord> ubuntu desktop mostly; i have never used windows 8. windows 7 sometimes.
[02:00] <doomlord> i use ubuntu 70% mac-osx 20% windows7 10%
[02:07] <joosen> oh god, you are the best. you use third os.
[02:08] <joosen> In your opinion, what's os is the stable.
[02:23] <joosen> Someone know about gnome remix?
[02:23] <joosen> what's different about the old that include with ubuntu 12.10?
[02:57] <doomlord> joosen: mac-osx is best;  i use ubuntu mostly because i like the philosophy; but it depends what you want to do.
[02:58] <doomlord> best c++ programming tools for me is still visual studio on  windows, but i still enjoy using ubuntu
[03:13] <joosen> hi doomlord, now you write the c++ programming in the ubuntu or not? mac-osx is best, I will do it?
[03:14] <doomlord> i have done most C++ programming in windows or mac-osx; i am doing C++ programming in ubuntu right now ; the tools aren't quite as good as visual studio but im trying to find my way around them.
[03:16] <doomlord> the best C++ environment is VisualStudio in Windows; x-code is very good too; i haven't found an environment in linux that i'm as comfortable with, i've used raw commandline tools,emacs , codeblocks and qtcreator a little.  I find the debuggers more difficult to  use (IDE integration) . Debugger integration is where Microsoft Visual Studio truly shines. I estimate i'm 50%-2x faster at writing c++ there
[03:17] <doomlord> basicaly most of my life  i've used Windows and just dabled with ubuntu,, but i'm trying to move to ubuntu more 'permanently'.
[03:17] <doomlord> i've written crossplatform code though so i can move between OS's
[04:29] <jbicha> oh I forgot I don't have upload rights for rhythmbox, could someone upload https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox/ubuntu
[04:47]  * micahg thinks that algorithm should be fixed
[04:57] <joosen> How can I downgrade 12.10 to 12.04 lts
[05:05] <TheMuso> joosen: Reinstall.
[05:06] <joosen> It will delete the file and document or not?
[05:07] <joosen> and how to install flash player into ubuntu 12.10
[05:08] <jbicha> joosen: for user support please try #ubuntu
[07:08] <desrt> Crush: yes!!!
[07:08] <Crush> hey desrt
[07:09] <Guest34948> what the?
[07:10] <Crushh> dang it, someone took Crush (no surprise I suppose)
[07:10] <hyperair> i wonder if it's possible to use ppa-purge to downgrade ubuntu releases
[07:10] <hyperair> heheh
[07:21] <cjohnston> didrocks: ping
[07:22] <didrocks> cjohnston: hey
[07:22] <cjohnston> didrocks: all of the uds-r BPs that are 'approved' aren't going to show up in Summit as meetings
[07:22] <cjohnston> ex: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-package-kit
[07:22] <cjohnston> I noticed you were approver on some of them
[07:23] <cjohnston> so I figured I'd tell someone instead of making people mad by messing with BPs
[07:23] <didrocks> cjohnston: yeah, can you fix them? I think it's a mistake that has been done (I don't have the edit right for changing them I'm afraid)
[07:24] <cjohnston> yup... Just want to not get yelled at for changing peoples BPs ;-)
[07:24] <didrocks> cjohnston: I'll talk with jason about it as well :)
[07:24] <cjohnston> jasoncwarner_: ^^
[07:24] <didrocks> cjohnston: excellent, no worry! thanks a lot man :)
[07:24] <seb128> cjohnston, didrocks: what's the issue?
[07:24] <didrocks> seb128: 09:22:21     cjohnston | didrocks: all of the uds-r BPs that are 'approved' aren't going to show up in Summit as meetings
[07:24] <cjohnston> seb128: setting a BP to approved doesn't allow Summit to pick it up
[07:24] <seb128> didrocks, I fail to parse that sentence...
[07:25] <seb128> cjohnston, well, it's approved for uds-r which is enough
[07:25] <didrocks> Definition:
[07:25] <didrocks> Approved
[07:25] <didrocks> I think that's what prevents it to be shown, as it would mean the spec is already draft and discussed ^
[07:25] <cjohnston> seb128: they get 'accepted' for UDS... they get 'approved' for work
[07:26] <cjohnston> LP doesn't export meetings if they are approved, so Summit can't import them
[07:26] <seb128> cjohnston, didrocks: I should undo all the definition: approved to new/discussion is that what you are saying?
[07:26] <cjohnston> https://bugs.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/994110
[07:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 994110 in Launchpad itself "summit should not key on bp definition state" [Low,Triaged]
[07:26] <didrocks> that's my understanding
[07:26] <cjohnston> seb128: yes please
[07:27] <seb128> cjohnston, didrocks: ok, thanks
[07:27] <didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
[07:27] <seb128> bah, I wish that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?searchtext=desktop-r would work
[07:27] <seb128> stupid launchpad
[07:27] <seb128> didrocks, yw!
[07:27] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's really annoying to not have that search working anymore :/
[07:27] <cjohnston> seb128: a list is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-r
[07:28] <seb128> didrocks, I'm working from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring?searchtext=desktop
[07:28] <seb128> cjohnston, well, that list doesn't list things that didn't get approved or nominated for uds-r though
[07:28] <didrocks> seb128: thanks for the link :)
[07:28] <seb128> cjohnston, which is what I'm looking for to see if we are missing some
[07:28] <didrocks> seb128: it even showed the things that are not approved for the sprint?
[07:28] <seb128> didrocks, no :-(
[07:28] <cjohnston> gotcha
[07:29] <didrocks> seb128: so you went the manual way yesterday? :/
[07:29] <seb128> didrocks, that's my "going to happen at UDS" list ... e.g make sure your specs are on there
[07:29] <didrocks> seb128: well, I checked mine this morning. Everything's all right :)
[07:29] <seb128> didrocks, I went on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?searchtext=desktop- and went through the 10 pages sorting by name on each...
[07:29] <seb128> loving launchpad
[07:29] <didrocks> seb128: that's what I meant by "manually". I was afraid that was the only way…
[07:30] <seb128> yeah... :(
[07:53] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, salut, ca va bien ?
[07:54] <pitti> oui! et toi?
[07:54] <pitti> we went bowling again yesterday evening, that was fun
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, ca va bien merci ;-)
[07:54] <seb128> did you do an impressive score again there? ;-)
[07:55] <pitti> "nous sommes allés bowling hier soir"
[07:55] <didrocks> RAOF: hey!
[07:55] <pitti> seb128: didn't beat my 168 record from last time, but my best game was 145
[07:55] <pitti> bah, someone modified pcre3
[07:55] <didrocks> RAOF: I think you noted that we uploaded a new crispy unity yesterday evening, it's the same version + the std -> boost fix
[07:56] <pitti> when we sync/merge this, we can sync glib, then gobject-introspection, then pygobject
[07:56] <seb128> pitti, quite good still!
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: ^ FYI, in case you track versions
[07:56] <seb128> pitti, great ... no I didn't track versions yet, is raring open to upload?
[07:56] <pitti> still frozen AFAIK
[07:56] <seb128> ok
[07:56] <pitti> but I'd like to sort out some merges today
[07:57] <RAOF> didrocks: Cool. 'tis a public holiday today, but I might get to it.
[07:57] <pitti> ah cool, we can sync pcre3
[07:57]  * pitti does
[07:57] <seb128> great
[07:57] <didrocks> RAOF: oh enjoy :)
[07:58] <seb128> pitti, I plan to look at g-s-d g-c-c soon
[07:58] <seb128> though we will need some other pieces to land first
[07:58] <seb128> like realmd
[07:59] <seb128> pitti, what do you call "current glib"? please don't update to 3.7
[07:59] <pitti> seb128: 2.34.1
[07:59] <seb128> ok, good
[07:59] <pitti> seb128: our remaining delta was to revert the pcre test
[08:00] <seb128> right
[08:00] <pitti> seb128: pcre3 synced from unstable, glib 2.34.1-1 synced from experimental now (in unapproved queue)
[08:00] <seb128> \o/
[08:00] <pitti> seb128: I'd like to track the 3.8 g-i and pygobject versions in raring, though
[08:00] <desrt> seb128: it begins....
[08:00] <seb128> pitti, will it require the new glib?
[08:00] <pitti> I'll make sure it'll keep working with glib 2.34.1
[08:01] <pitti> err, 2.34.2
[08:01] <seb128> pitti, ok, your call then ;-)
[08:01] <pitti> hey desrt
[08:01] <desrt> pitti: hey :)
[08:01] <seb128> works for me if you are confident in the quality of the new serie
[08:02] <Laney> pitti: I was wondering if we could re-enable the glib tests now that the buildds got better
[08:02] <pitti> seb128: well, I'm biased :) but I'd like to get rid of the remaining static bindings, together with their bugs and incomplete API
[08:02] <pitti> Laney: oh, they did?
[08:02] <Laney> yeah
[08:02] <pitti> Laney: OOI, do you know how?
[08:02] <Laney> might be worth testing in an arm enabled PPA though
[08:03] <pitti> Laney: I'd say, we let this glib sync build
[08:03] <pitti> Laney: and if the tests succeed on arm, I'll re-enable it in svn, OK?
[08:03] <Laney> I can't remember the exact place, but it was a sysctl tweak
[08:03] <Laney> ask infinity
[08:03] <pitti> ah, sweet
[08:03] <pitti> yeah, that'd be great
[08:03] <pitti> Laney: I thought we got armadaxp server boxes now, or anything like that :)
[08:04] <Laney> hah, not quite
[08:04] <Laney> we /did/ get a load more arm builders though, which is exciting
[08:04] <Laney> (perhaps they all went to PPAs though)
[08:04] <pitti> yeah, apparently so
[08:05] <pitti> I'm still stunned what they are for
[08:05] <pitti> AFAIK we don't have _any_ PPA which would use them
[08:05] <pitti> mere-mortal PPAs don't build ARM, and the blessed ones use the distro builders
[08:05]  * pitti asks infin
[08:05] <pitti> ...ity
[08:05] <Laney> well it's better if you can have ARM builds for your PPA and not tie up the distro builders
[08:06] <pitti> (asked in #u-devel)
[08:06] <pitti> yeah, fully agreed
[08:06] <Laney> you can have virt/nonvirt and arm/noarm separately
[08:06]  * Laney has a nonvirt arm one actually
[08:24] <mlankhorst> i do build some stuff on arm but it's slow, not something you want
[08:46] <Sweetshark> does anybody know when the UDS schedule get updated? I am still in two LibreOffice session during the same slot ...
[08:57] <seb128> Sweetshark, are you marked as essential for both?
[08:58] <chrisccoulson> yo desktop team!
[09:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[09:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[09:05] <lamalex> RAOF, are you a proper person to ping for nvidia problems or should i wait for bryce/tseliot
[09:05] <tseliot> lamalex: I'm  here
[09:05] <lamalex> oh, convenient
[09:05] <lamalex> jason told me to ping you- are you at the sprint?
[09:06] <tseliot> lamalex: no, but I'll be at UDS next week
[09:06] <lamalex> have a moment now to try and get me running?
[09:06] <tseliot> lamalex: ok, let's see if I can help
[09:07] <lamalex> running nouveau but it's /very/ unstable and the nvidia driver leaves me dead in the water
[09:07] <lamalex> problem is when i use nvidia driver, after the boot splash my screen is just black
[09:07] <lamalex> i don't get any display and have to boot into recovery mode and uninstall the driver to get back to a desktop
[09:13] <lamalex> tseliot, sorry. nouveau causes hardlocks
[09:16] <tseliot> lamalex: can you please reproduce the problem with the Nvidia driver, then enter Recovery mode and run nvidia-bug-report.sh (this will generate a log file (nvidia-bug-report.log)
[09:17] <tseliot> lamalex: then please show me the bug report
[09:18] <lamalex> in my cwd?
[09:18] <lamalex> or /var or somewhere like that
[09:18] <tseliot> lamalex: in cwd
[09:19] <pitti> desrt: how soon do you plan to deprecate GPollFD?
[09:20] <pitti> desrt: I made a boo-boo with pushing git branches for glib, so my gpollfd boxing accidentally got committed
[09:20] <pitti> desrt: so I now wonder whether I should revert it, or whether we want it after all
[09:20] <lamalex> tsdgeos, does it upload to LP?
[09:20] <lamalex> tseliot, ^
[09:21] <tseliot> lamalex: no but you can upload it using nouveau
[09:25] <desrt> pitti: hahah
[09:26] <desrt> "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission"? :)
[09:26] <desrt> unfortunately for you, i know that germans never make mistakes :)
[09:26] <desrt> only "mistakes"
[09:26] <pitti> hate hate hate git's branches concept
[09:27] <seb128> hate hate hate git
[09:27] <desrt> pitti: let's revert it for now
[09:27] <pitti> desrt: anyway, I figured I ask you first to avoid a commit/revert/commit-after-all log madness
[09:27] <desrt> so we can be on the same footing as we were before
[09:27] <pitti> desrt: ack
[09:28] <desrt> pitti: so here's the deal
[09:29] <desrt> pitti: hold on...
[09:29] <pitti> I reverted locally, ready to push on your word :)
[09:32] <desrt> pitti: talking to seb about some weird issue
[09:32] <desrt> anyway...
[09:32] <desrt> GPollFD is evil because the user expects to be able to modify it
[09:32] <desrt> you can do like _add_poll(&pollfd);
[09:32] <desrt> and then change the events on the pollfd
[09:32] <pitti> right
[09:33] <desrt> this happens in sources that care about writability polling (as has to be done to avoid deadlocks)
[09:33] <pitti> I'm not particularly attached to it, I just want the static wrapping in pygobject to go away
[09:33] <desrt> i want to add a new API that's like "here's what you need to watch for..."
[09:33] <desrt> and then it causes the GSource to automatically be dispatched when that condition is true
[09:33] <lamalex> tseliot, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/1070906
[09:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070906 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "nvidia driver leaves me with unrecoverable black screen after boot splash" [Undecided,New]
[09:34] <desrt> (ie: you don't have to check .revents from your GSource ->check)
[09:35] <desrt> anyway... this is the idea
[09:35] <desrt> but it certainly won't land any time in the next little while
[09:35] <desrt> mostly because i don't even have a sketch of the API yet
[09:35] <desrt> it's somewhat likely that GPollFD will be deprecated by the end of this cycle, though
[09:35] <pitti> ah, ok
[09:35] <pitti> desrt: so would you recommend that pygobject does the boxing itself now, and all other clients (gjs, etc.) do the same?
[09:35] <desrt> and since you said that you plan to keep the pygobject stuff only depending on older GLib, i don't know why you'd care about doing it this cycle...
[09:37] <pitti> desrt: mostly for being nice to other GI clients, as well as furthering the general idea of "all library API should be introspectable"
[09:37] <desrt> pitti: i don't buy into either of those arguments when there is a good chance that the API in quesiton will be on the chopping block before the next stable
[09:38] <pitti> desrt: right, hence my question about the timeline and what your plans are  :) when I wrote this, I didn't know yet that it was going away
[09:38] <desrt> sorry for that.
[09:38] <pitti> desrt: so thanks for the heads-up!
[09:39] <desrt> i think it will be quite easy to add a very thin API to GSource based on internal manipulation of a list of GPollFD
[09:39] <pitti> desrt: don't be, it wasn't exactly rocket science :) it's a silly 10-minute patch, and I'm happy to do it in pygobject itself
[09:39] <pitti> desrt: so, I'll push the revert now, OK?
[09:39] <desrt> yes.  please do.
[09:39] <desrt> will make ebassi happier as well :)
[09:41] <pitti> done, and bug WONTFIXed with a summary
[09:41] <pitti> thanks desrt
[09:45] <tseliot> lamalex: Failed to load module "nvidia" (module does not exist, 0)
[09:45] <tseliot> lamalex: what does "dkms status" say?
[09:45] <lamalex> tseliot, well it's removed now
[09:45] <lamalex> i have to uninstall it to get back to a working machine
[09:46] <tseliot> lamalex: please install it again and, without rebooting, try that command
[09:47] <lamalex> dkms status
[09:47] <lamalex> virtualbox, 4.1.18, 3.2.0-32-generic, x86_64: installed
[09:47] <lamalex> virtualbox, 4.1.18, 3.5.0-17-generic, x86_64: installed
[09:49] <tseliot> lamalex: the module wasn't built and installed. Did the package installation end correctly?
[09:49] <lamalex> seems to
[09:49] <tseliot> lamalex: it should have complained about not being able to build the module
[09:50] <lamalex> *face palm* installed the wrong package. common rather than current
[09:50] <Laney> pitti: btw, new glib picks up a dependency on libelfg0 which will need multiarching
[09:50] <tseliot> lamalex: keep -common installed too
[09:50] <desrt> pitti: here's the rough plan: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686853
[09:50] <ubot2> Gnome bug 686853 in mainloop "new GSource fd API" [Normal,New]
[09:51] <pitti> Laney: uh, in a stable microrelease?
[09:51] <Laney> it's a packaging change made by joss
[09:51] <Laney> I'm not convinced it wasn't an error though
[09:51] <lamalex> tseliot, dkms status
[09:51] <lamalex> nvidia-current, 304.43, 3.5.0-17-generic, x86_64: installed
[09:51] <lamalex> virtualbox, 4.1.18, 3.2.0-32-generic, x86_64: installed
[09:51] <lamalex> virtualbox, 4.1.18, 3.5.0-17-generic, x86_64: installed
[09:52] <Laney> anyway, I posted a patch to a Debian bug but the maintainer hasn't let me know if he's happy with it yet
[09:53] <tseliot> lamalex: ok, now please reboot (make sure that you're using kernel 3.5.0-17-generic) and generate the log again with nvidia-bug-report.sh
[09:54] <tseliot> lamalex: also, please make sure that the driver is enabled
[09:54] <lamalex> should i boot once to failed and then restart into recovery?
[09:54] <tseliot> lamalex: yes, you should make it fail first. but first I need the output of this command
[09:55] <tseliot> lamalex: update-alternatives --display x86_64-linux-gnu_gl_conf
[09:56] <lamalex> tseliot, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1304526/
[09:56] <tseliot> lamalex: ok, it looks correct. You can proceed
[09:56] <lamalex> aye
[10:09] <lamalex> tseliot, new log is attached to the bug
[10:12] <tseliot> lamalex: I can't see why you got a black screen in the log as it looks ok
[10:13] <lamalex> :(
[10:14] <lamalex> tseliot, is it possibly nvidia is just initializing my display to a 0 brightness or something/
[10:15] <tseliot> lamalex: if so, you should be able to ssh into it
[10:16] <lamalex> maybe, need to figure out my ip though
[10:17] <lamalex> many IPs on the canonical sprint network
[10:18] <Beret> any gsettings wizards here?
[10:18] <lamalex> tseliot, once i figure how to shell in- what do i do?
[10:19] <tseliot> lamalex: see if X is up and running
[10:19] <tseliot> lamalex: ps aux | grep X (for starters)
[10:22] <lamalex> tseliot, is there a command I can run to set the brightness?
[10:22] <lamalex> (the hardware buttons dont work with the nvidia driver)
[10:22] <lamalex> guess i could x forward nvidia-settings?
[10:29] <lamalex> tseliot, i just ran nvidia-settings and it printed this-  possibly relevant? ERROR: Error parsing configuration file '/home/alex/.nvidia-settings-rc' on
[10:29] <lamalex>        line 52: '0/XVideoTextureBrightness=-82' (Unrecognized attribute name).
[10:29] <lamalex> no, that seems find nevermind
[10:30] <tseliot> lamalex: try something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1304582/
[11:43] <mvo> am I missing something or can glade in the 12.10 version not change the label of a button? I'm sure I'm missing something, thats 3.14.0
[12:27] <tkamppeter> seb128, hi
[12:28] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[12:28] <tkamppeter> seb128, as you are already in Copenhagen, did you already get your Nexus 7?
[12:29] <seb128> tkamppeter, yes and no, why?
[12:29] <tkamppeter> seb128, what means "yes and no"? You should have gotten a piece of hardware or not?
[12:30] <seb128> tkamppeter, yes I'm in Copenhagen, no I don't have a Nexus 7, not sure who will get one
[12:30] <tkamppeter> seb128, Jason has written in one of his mails that all the Desktop team people get a Nexus 7. Therefore I am asking.
[12:31] <jasoncwarner_> tkamppeter: yes, will get one next week once everyone is here
[12:31] <tkamppeter> jasoncwarner_, OK, thanks for the info.
[12:33] <tkamppeter> jasoncwarner_, seb128, I have lokked through the sessions and now after there was such a lot of Nexus 7 hype around the event (to all: Bring a Nexus 7!, to desktopers: You get a Nexus 7!) will there be a session about rooting the Nexus 7 and installing Ubuntu on it, at least at getting so far as the video shows which got through all news sites?
[12:34] <tkamppeter> s/lokked/looked/
[12:34] <jasoncwarner_> tkamppeter there will be instructions for sure...
[12:37] <tkamppeter> Such a session would be especially useful for all the people who have bought a Nexus 7 this week or hurry through Copenhagen on Oct 29 to get the new 32G one and then on the UDS there is nothing about it.
[12:38] <tsdgeos> tkamppeter: read the uds list, there's a mail saying the 32g one might not work since the hardware might be different
[12:39] <tkamppeter> tsdgeos, yes I have read about this, so I had never hurried after a 32G one and told others to not do so ...
[12:41] <tkamppeter> tsdgeos, so if the UDS attendants read these mails I hope they will do not do the wrong thing (or a community will form who will hack Ubuntu onto the new version ...).
[13:06] <tkamppeter> I created 4 sessions for the UDS and they all got put on Thursday. Has this a special reason?
[13:16] <attente> seb128: i created a merge proposal because i wasn't sure if i was supposed to push to the main gnome-control-center branch
[13:17] <seb128> attente, hey
[13:17] <seb128> attente, you can't push to the main branch, I don't think you are members of the team that owns it
[13:18] <attente> ah ok
[13:18] <seb128> tkamppeter, no, the scheduler is automatic ... or somebody who is marked as essential for the session registered on launchpad as being at UDS only that day
[13:18] <seb128> attente, merge requests are the right way anyway, you want reviewing ;-)
[13:18] <tkamppeter> seb128, OK.
[13:31] <jbicha> could I get a sponsor for https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox/ubuntu
[13:32] <seb128> jbicha, isn't rhythmbox in the desktop set?
[13:33] <Laney> apparently not
[13:33] <jbicha> seb128: it was in oneiric but not precise and newer http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/ubuntu-desktop
[13:33] <seb128> why not?
[13:33] <seb128> can we get that fixed?
[13:33] <seb128> the "what is in what set and how we get sets fixed" has always been confusing to me
[13:33] <Laney> let me ask
[13:33] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[13:36] <desrt> attente: you should link your branch/merge to the bug report
[13:42] <Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/121087475/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-armel.glib2.0_2.34.1-1%2Bppa0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ← not sure how much I trust these PPA builds any more ;-)
[13:43] <seb128> qemu segfault...
[13:43] <Laney> yeah, those are virtual armel builders
[13:49] <Laney> jbicha: anyway, let me look while we wait for a reply
[13:57] <Laney> jbicha: don't you intend 2.98?
[13:58] <Laney> +to upload
[14:00] <jbicha> Laney: 2.98 changes strings and I never bothered to follow up with seeing how much changed for bug 1060601
[14:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060601 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "[FFe]: Update rhythmbox from 2.97 to 2.98" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060601
[14:00] <bcurtiswx> seb128, when next week will the GNOME discussion happen? I didn't seem to see anything in the schedule
[14:00] <Laney> jbicha: oh right, you're after a SRU?
[14:00] <seb128> bcurtiswx, good question, I didn't see the blueprint either
[14:01] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, ^ did you file that blueprint?
[14:08] <Laney> not sure https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-gstreamer needs a UDS session, does it?
[14:12] <seb128> Laney, it's one of those border line, I would keep it on the schedule and drop it if it's getting overpacked
[14:14] <seb128> Laney, we can discuss things that needs to be ported, codecs, the current state of gstreamer 1.0, etc
[14:25] <jbicha> one work item is to re-evaluate the gstreamer good/bad/ugly split since we do it differently than Debian
[14:28] <seb128> jbicha, do we?
[14:28] <seb128> jbicha, or you mean the move of some codecs to good for empathy?
[14:29] <mdeslaur> if they get changed, can they get renamed to something else than "bad" and "ugly"? :P
[14:30] <Laney> those are the upstream names
[14:31] <mdeslaur> I know, but getting a dialog pop up to users that they need to install something called "bad" and "ugly" is kind of confusing :P
[14:31] <mdeslaur> A friend asked me about it a few weeks ago, and I was reminded of a presentation from the design team about that fact a long time ago
[14:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hello, Sebastien! Saw that you added a Quantal task to bug 1035219. Have you decided to approve my proposed fix, after all? In that case, and since mantas is eager to release Baltix, could we possibly upload to quantal-proposed right away?
[14:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in Baltix "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[14:35] <seb128> GunnarHj, is your fix the "hide the tab under GNOME"?
[14:35] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yes.
[14:37] <seb128> GunnarHj, I nominated because somebody came with the bug here
[14:38] <GunnarHj> seb128: Wasn't that mantas, who wants smaller deb files for Baltix?
[14:42] <jokerdino> ping phanimahesh
[14:43] <jokerdino> didrocks: are you around?
[14:43] <didrocks> hey jokerdino
[14:44] <seb128> GunnarHj, I've no clue what Baltix is doing, but hidding the tab under GNOME would be an UI change, we don't do those after release usually
[14:44] <jokerdino> hey didrocks, we have some issue with resetting unity in the tests.
[14:44] <phanimahesh> didrocks: we were trying to finish with the unit tests you asked, but we need some help.
[14:46] <jokerdino> we end up with failures in the test because we can't reset unity properly (?)
[14:46] <phanimahesh> I need to reset unity to test stuff, but reloading unity blocks. I cant proceed till unity's killed.
[14:47] <GunnarHj> seb128: In this case it would be about hiding a few buggy tabs about language/locales which currently are available under a capplet named Keyboard Layout. But we've had that discussion...
[14:49] <seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, I tend to agree with you at this point, I need to talk to jbicha
[14:49] <seb128> jbicha, you need to use language-selector in GNOME remix :p
[14:49] <didrocks> jokerdino: urgh, really? what is happening?
[14:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: Great if you do that.
[14:49] <phanimahesh> didrocks: reloading unity is the major problem.
[14:49] <didrocks> phanimahesh: so
[14:50] <didrocks> I would say
[14:50] <didrocks> we should do an unit test
[14:50] <jbicha> seb128: isn't it a bit late to make that kind of change for 12.10 though?
[14:50] <didrocks> not an autopilot one
[14:50] <didrocks> like, import the unity file within the python process
[14:50] <didrocks> changing keys
[14:50] <didrocks> calling the reset function (the one not restarting unity)
[14:50] <didrocks> and checking the keys are the defaults after this function call
[14:50] <phanimahesh> didrocks: I am using unittest module, change keys, reset unity, verify if they are the defaults.
[14:50] <didrocks> (so basically you don't call "unity")
[14:51] <didrocks> phanimahesh: can I have a look?
[14:51] <seb128> jbicha, the current way is just broken, aruiz came to see me today because his GNOME was in chinese and he was wondering why
[14:52] <seb128> jbicha, which turned out it's because he's using gnome-shell sometimes and opened the region capplet
[14:52] <phanimahesh> I've messed things introduing classes, etc, but here's the file.
[14:52] <seb128> jbicha, it's just wth that opening a system settings tab is enough to get your desktop in chinese...
[14:52] <phanimahesh> https://github.com/phanimahesh/unity-revamp/blob/stable/unityunittests.py
[14:53] <phanimahesh> I have modified things beyond recognition there. :P but the patch for Q will not have that fancy stuff.
[14:53] <jbicha> seb128: in that particular case, the installer shouldn't be leaving the chinese language pack installed
[14:53] <didrocks> phanimahesh: yeah, that's fine, let me check :)
[14:54] <jbicha> seb128: if language-selector wasn't so painful to use, I would definitely have considered a last-minute switch to not have things be broken
[14:54] <seb128> jbicha, well, that's assuming that you don't have chinese users that can log in on the same box
[14:54] <didrocks> phanimahesh: hum, the code is not in the unity binary, right?
[14:54] <didrocks> phanimahesh: I think as you proposed in the branch, the functions needs to be in unity
[14:54] <seb128> jbicha, but I admit it's not the most frequent usecase
[14:54] <didrocks> then, this function does the reset without restarting unity
[14:55] <didrocks> (it's part of another unity function calls)
[14:55] <jbicha> seb128: no, I mean there's a bug where the installer itself removes every language pack except for the user selected one and Chinese
[14:55] <seb128> jbicha, I guess aruiz has chinese installed for debugging reasons
[14:55] <didrocks> when you do then is import this "unity" binary (hence my question the other day about a python file not finishing with .py)
[14:55] <phanimahesh> this is what I made to distribute separately.
[14:55] <seb128> jbicha, oh, ok
[14:55] <didrocks> s/when/what/
[14:55] <didrocks> and that's this function (which doesn't restart unity) that you put under test
[14:55] <didrocks> so then, you don't get this hanging issue
[14:55] <phanimahesh> we have figured it out. python imp module allows loading arbitrary files.
[14:56] <didrocks> phanimahesh: excellent! does what I mean make any sense to you? (not sure to be clear)
[14:56] <phanimahesh> yes, it does.
[14:56] <didrocks> good good :-)
[14:56] <didrocks> so then, it's a real "unit" test
[14:57] <phanimahesh> but to affect changes, I am reloading unity immediately after resetting.
[14:57] <phanimahesh> and thats what is causing me troubles.
[14:57] <didrocks> phanimahesh: you don't need that in the test, right?
[14:57] <didrocks> reloading unity
[14:58] <phanimahesh> then tests in one part of the tree fail at times, for unknown reason.
[14:58] <phanimahesh> jokerdino: you remember those failing cases?
[14:58] <didrocks> phanimahesh: reset_unity() in https://code.launchpad.net/~amith/unity/unity-reset-fix/+merge/130828 doesn't restart unity, isn't it?
[14:58] <didrocks> and that's the function you need to put under test IMHO
[14:58] <didrocks> so you import the "module"
[14:58] <didrocks> and test this function :)
[14:59] <jokerdino> phanimahesh: oh yes. one sec while i get the pastebin link
[14:59] <phanimahesh> okay. sounds good.
[14:59] <didrocks> awesome!
[14:59] <jokerdino> the latest one - http://paste.ubuntu.com/1304641/
[14:59] <phanimahesh> but, now the patch needs a fix since I kill unity and dont reload it. :P
[15:00] <jokerdino> ok you guys fixed it :P cool.
[15:00] <attente> seb128: i merged the new patch into the old one and re-pushed a new commit, does it require another merge request to be submitted?
[15:00] <phanimahesh> and where do i put this unit test?
[15:00] <seb128> attente, no, the diff should autoupdate on the current one, let me check
[15:01] <phanimahesh> i mean, in which subdirectory of tests inside unity?
[15:02] <didrocks> phanimahesh: right, I think you need to put that separately
[15:02] <didrocks> phanimahesh: or call the 3 subfunctions directly and test them separately
[15:02] <didrocks> phanimahesh: hum
[15:02] <didrocks> one sec
[15:03] <seb128> attente, yeah, it picked it up, can you just tweak the changelog to have one entry with the change? there is no reason to have the "do that; revert it" since that never got merged/uploaded
[15:03] <attente> sure
[15:03] <attente> thanks
[15:04] <didrocks> phanimahesh: maybe create a tests/wrapper directory
[15:04] <seb128> thank you! ;-)
[15:04] <didrocks> you will need some cmakeries of course :p
[15:04] <phanimahesh> didrocks: thats what i had in mind. thanks. :)
[15:04] <phanimahesh> wait, where do I have to meddle with cmake?
[15:06] <didrocks> phanimahesh: just adding the subdirectory and ensure the test is called on "make check"
[15:07] <phanimahesh> I dont see a MakeFile in there..
[15:08] <phanimahesh> oh. found CMakeLists.txt
[15:08] <phanimahesh> thanks. I'll do that.
[15:08] <didrocks> phanimahesh: yeah, it's cmake ;)
[15:08] <didrocks> phanimahesh: good luck!
[15:09] <phanimahesh> Thank you didrocks :) hopefully I'll get this done by tonight. (IST)
[15:10] <didrocks> phanimahesh: excellent! ping me once it's done (I may not be responsive because of UDS preparation and meetings, but will try ;))
[15:10] <phanimahesh> sure.
[15:16] <desrt> attente: merge request page has a button "(+) Link a bug report"
[15:16] <desrt> that's what i meant :)
[15:17] <attente> ah, sorry
[15:17] <attente> i didn't see that
[15:18] <desrt> attente: usually i prefer one issue per commit
[15:18] <desrt> but seb says that the way you did it is fine
[15:20] <jbicha> seb128: what about a UDS session to re-evaluate what we're doing with systemd? since GNOME is making it increasingly more difficult for distros to ship GNOME without systemd
[15:20] <attente> ok, i'll think about it in the future
[15:20] <seb128> jbicha, you mean re-evaluate systemd/upstart?
[15:20] <attente> desrt: is there anything else i should look at?
[15:20] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: missed the reference....which blueprint?
[15:21] <jbicha> seb128: basically
[15:21] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, GNOME plans review
[15:21] <desrt> attente: the patch looks good
[15:21] <seb128> jbicha, I mentioned it to slangasek, he said foundation is not interested to discuss it
[15:21] <desrt> i assume you tested it?
[15:21] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: if we don't need it, we can kill it. maybe a rubber stamp session?
[15:22] <desrt> seb128: time to merge, i guess... and SRU would be nice
[15:22] <seb128> jbicha, they made a choice and have no intention to change it and they don't care much what GNOME is doing
[15:22] <seb128> desrt, yeah for merge ... SRU, I will queue up for the next point release update
[15:22] <desrt> .1?
[15:22] <desrt> there won't be another point release on 3.4....
[15:23] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, well, we want to discuss the stay on GNOME 3.6 or go to 3.8
[15:23] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, I can register the blueprint if you want
[15:23] <desrt> seb128: don't listen to him
[15:23] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: don't listen to him, rather
[15:23] <seb128> desrt, yeah, I forgot about that ... I'm going to do it ;-)
[15:23] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: we need to stay on 3.6
[15:23] <desrt> 3.8 is just insane
[15:23] <seb128> lol
[15:23] <seb128> including glib?
[15:23] <desrt> no.  not for glib.
[15:23] <desrt> for glib we actually should revert to the version we had in dapper
[15:23] <jbicha> seb128: of course, Debian now includes systemd as an option, I'm curious whether that will be allowed before 14.04 LTS
[15:24] <desrt> it was a lot more reliable
[15:24] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: go ahead :)
[15:24] <jasoncwarner_> I mean, now that we have desrt's blessing ;)
[15:24] <jasoncwarner_> that is all I was waiting for !
[15:24] <seb128> jbicha, I doubt Canonical will invest any of its resources on that, I guess if somebody from the community steps up that could happen
[15:24]  * desrt wonders where jasoncwarner_ is trolling from
[15:24] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, indeed!
[15:25] <jasoncwarner_> desrt from on high, as always!
[15:25] <jbicha> seb128: um, just removing systemd from the blacklist; merging from Debian and seeing what happens?
[15:25] <attente> desrt: i tested the patch
[15:25] <seb128> jbicha, it will not work
[15:25] <jbicha> *merging the GNOME packages from Debian*
[15:25] <desrt> attente: cool.  it's in seb's hands now
[15:25] <desrt> attente: congrats on your first piece of useful work :)
[15:26] <jbicha> lol
[15:26] <attente> :)
[15:27] <attente> now what?
[15:27] <seb128> jbicha, well you can get systemd in, but it requires having init scripts working for it in every component, and atm it conflicts with ubuntu-system-services since they implement the same dbus interfaces for example
[15:27] <desrt> attente: menu proxy patch for the next 1.5 days until you're here?
[15:27] <desrt> seb128: any other tasks ?
[15:28] <jasoncwarner_> hey attente ! first patch is on it's way? :)
[15:28] <attente> hi jasoncwarner_ i think so
[15:28] <attente> but there's some bug i'm stuck on
[15:28] <jasoncwarner_> attente: :) awesome! welcome to the team! And we'll see ya in Copenhagen in a few days.
[15:28] <seb128> jbicha, well, I'm not saying that it's not possible, it's just that having to change init system to be able to run gnome-shell on Ubuntu is a no go
[15:30] <attente> jasoncwarner_: thanks, see you soon :)
[15:32] <jbicha> seb128: it's unclear whether Ubuntu can manage to stick with upstart for the long term or if systemd is inevitable; if we're going to have to go to systemd eventually then we should start doing the work to make it an optional init
[15:33] <seb128> jbicha, I don't think we have any doubt we can manage to stick with upstart
[15:33] <seb128> jbicha, we have our own desktop and stack, why would that stop working on upstart?
[15:35] <seb128> attente, congrats, your first fix got merged in our packages ;-)
[15:35] <seb128> attente, I just changed the changelog target to UNRELEASED (we use that in the changelog until we do an upload)
[15:35] <attente> great, thanks seb128!
[15:37] <seb128> attente, can you look to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bugs to see if there is any bug you would like working on (one of the important ones if possible)?
[15:38] <seb128> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/958382 would be an useful one if you want a suggestion
[15:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 958382 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Precise) "different softwares hit abort() in gtkfilechooser code" [High,Triaged]
[15:38] <attente> seb128, sure
[15:38] <Laney> seb128: what happened to the totem upload to quantal-proposed?
[15:38] <seb128> it happens often enough that I guess it should be able to get something under valgrind by running a gtk (evince since to come often) and use the fileselector
[15:39] <seb128> Laney, what upload?
[15:39] <Laney> ubuntu5
[15:39] <Laney> bzr says you released it, but I can't find it
[15:40] <seb128> Laney, it got "[ubuntu/quantal-proposed] totem 3.4.3-0ubuntu5 (Rejected)" yesterday
[15:40] <seb128> I wish people would drop email saying why they reject uploads :-(
[15:40] <seb128> Laney, looking to the .changes I guess "wrong lp bug reference in the changelog"
[15:40] <Laney> oh yeah, there it is
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, do you plan to do an upload or should I reupload?
[15:41] <Laney> was just looking at 3.6, noticed it
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, if you have another fix please just merge both
[15:41] <Laney> I can reupload
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, let me fix/reupload
[15:41] <Laney> ok
[15:43] <jbicha> seb128: ok, outsiders have doubts about upstart, and it sounds like Ubuntu will have to manage an increasing number of patches to keep things working as they were
[15:45] <jbicha> upstart & systemd are well above my tech understanding, but Ubuntu's POV isn't really being presented well in the face of continual pressure from the systemd side
[15:46] <seb128> Laney, fixed, pushed,uploaded ... please pull --overwrite
[15:46] <attente> seb128: is there a panel in gnome-control-center that pops up a file chooser?
[15:46] <seb128> jbicha, that would be true if GNOME had any leverage over Ubuntu
[15:46] <seb128> attente, no, that bug is a gtk one ... why?
[15:47] <seb128> jbicha, Ubuntu could stay on the quantal stack and just improve unity for the next 5 years
[15:47] <attente> in the bug description it says "ProcCmdline: gnome-control-center deja-dup"
[15:48] <jbicha> seb128: sure...
[15:48] <seb128> jbicha, I don't think it's reasonable or going to happen, but we decided that systemd was not what we want to use and that's not going to change any time soon
[15:48] <seb128> jbicha, we will probably just implement the dbus interfaces we need for e.g GNOME session and power management
[15:48] <seb128> jbicha, same way we implement XDG_RUNTIME_DIR our way
[15:48] <seb128> attente, oh, that's the backup icon in system settings
[15:48] <jbicha> seb128: and I'm not the guy to try to change that, but it seems like it was a Canonical decision & maybe the community should have been involved more
[15:49] <seb128> attente, but that bug is a gtk file-selector one, look at the duplicates, it happens in random apps, often evince it seems (or people do save pdfs often)
[15:50] <seb128> jbicha, well, it was discussed at UDS for like 5 UDS, at some point we need to move on
[15:50] <attente> seb128: ok, gotcha
[15:50] <seb128> jbicha, either way there is ton of work, changing an init system is lot of work and not only for us, only for our users, sysadmin who have custom init scripts, etc
[15:51] <seb128> jbicha, we decided as a project we prefer to aim for stability for us and our users and focus on more important things
[16:34] <Laney> rb should be in the desktop set now
[16:34] <Laney> for raring onwards
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, what was the issue, how did you get fixed?
[16:37] <Laney> some build-dep stack pulls unity which causes it to go into core
[16:37] <Laney> the procedure is "mail cjwatson"
[16:38] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Any conclusion as regards bug 1035219?
[16:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1035219 in Baltix "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
[16:39] <seb128> Laney, ok
[16:39] <seb128> GunnarHj, no, we sidetracked to other discussions, I guess it's a "let's forget about quantal and make sure we fix it for raring"
[16:45] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Ok, I can live with it. Still can't help mentioning that there are visible issues besides that Chinese thing. For instance, try to change the regional formats settings from that GUI, and you'll find that nothing is changed (since g-s-d does not set any env. variables).
[16:49] <jbicha> GunnarHj: ok, I wasn't aware of that issue but I don't think that this is easily fixable now that quantal is released
[16:49] <jbicha> let's fix raring and then we can see if any of that can be backported to quantal
[16:51] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: That's fine with me. And in Baltix, where they don't want to see those tabs, they seem to ship a modified g-c-c anyway.
[19:15] <BigWhale> Greetings all.
[19:16] <BigWhale> Were there recently any updates in 12.10 to gstreamer, gstreamer plugins or compiz or perhaps Xorg?
[19:17] <BigWhale> (asking at this hour when most of the devs are already at UDS venue .. I am feeling lucky!)
[20:05] <BigWhale> this will freeze my desktop: gst-launch-1.0 ximagesrc endx=800 endy=600 use-damage=false show-pointer=true !  queue ! videoconvert ! vp8enc ! webmmux !  queue ! filesink location="test.webm"
[20:11] <dobey> BigWhale: i think compiz and xorg are certainly updated. does it freeze when under metacity or gnome-shell as well?
[21:20] <BigWhale> dobey, not sure ... don't have those installed.
[21:21] <BigWhale> dobey, and USC doesn't show that those were updated ...
[21:25] <dobey> BigWhale: updated since when? there are newer versions in 12.10 than there are in 12.04 (plus also the drivers)
[21:26] <BigWhale> dobey: updated since 2012-10-20 ... at that point Kazam was working just fine
[21:27] <dobey> ah
[21:27] <dobey> then don't know
[21:28] <BigWhale> hm it is not freezing anymore
[21:28] <BigWhale> I had to reboot :>
[21:28] <BigWhale> :/
[21:28] <dobey> heh
[21:28] <BigWhale> but I think I know what the problem was
[21:28] <BigWhale> I disconnected my monitors and reconnected them
[21:28] <BigWhale> actually I replaced one monitor...
[21:28] <BigWhale> and fglrx was all wonky for a while
[21:30] <BigWhale> ok, or perhaps something happened to gstreamer .. because now I have different problems ... those are debuggable... :>
[23:33] <doomlord> do any linnux WM's do the equivalent of osx missioncontrol where a fullscreen button automatically puts the application on its own desktop
[23:44] <RAOF> doomlord: Not to my knowledge.