[05:43] <knightwise> morning everyone
[07:09] <diplo> morning all
[07:19] <popey> morning
[07:59] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:00] <AlanBell> morning czajkowski and all o/
[08:02] <christel> morning
[08:03] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:05] <SuperMatt> oh dear, more websites getting the wrong end of the stick about mark's recent blog posts
[08:06] <popey> oh?
[08:08] <SuperMatt> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138200-key-parts-of-ubuntu-13-04-will-be-developed-in-secret-to-escape-the-critics-ire
[08:09] <SuperMatt> it's simple, key parts of ubuntu are being developed outside the public eye, they're just holding on to things until they're finished, but they will allow members of the community to see it and go over it before it's finished so there's more cohesive community feed back. A better signal to noise ratio
[08:10] <popey> meh, that's a re-print from other sites
[08:10] <SuperMatt> fair enough
[08:15] <theopensourcerer> yawn
[08:15] <SuperMatt> yup
[08:15]  * theopensourcerer goes for some moar coffee
[08:16] <diplo> Seems my sound issue could be down to EDAC module, can't test till monday now though :(
[08:18] <theopensourcerer> I haz Jelly Bean on my S3...
[08:18] <theopensourcerer> What's the difference? ;-)
[08:33] <daubers> theopensourcerer: Which jelly bean version?
[08:34] <theopensourcerer> 4.1.1
[08:34] <daubers> When you get 4.1.2 you can rotate the home screen
[08:36] <theopensourcerer> oh great. That's something that really gets on my tits.
[08:41] <theopensourcerer> That wasn't meant to sounds sarcastic if it did.
[08:44] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[08:46] <ali1234> "We’ve … figured out that critics will be critics whether you discuss an idea with them in advance or not."
[08:46] <ali1234> well... duh
[08:47] <ali1234> if i don't like it i don't like it
[08:47] <bittin^work> bah need to burn another Xubuntu CD, Boss took the one laying around here for saving files from his borked Windows XP partition :p
[08:48] <theopensourcerer> Hah - interesting stats if you are into 007. Can't wait to see Skyfall.
[08:48] <theopensourcerer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20026367
[08:50] <diplo> Off to see my gran in Plymouth tonight, might leave the kids with her on Fri/Sat night and go and watch that in town
[08:51] <theopensourcerer> I have instructed Mrs theopensourcerer to find a suitable babysitter and FAST!
[08:51] <diplo> heh
[08:51] <SuperMatt> list of things I hate in modern websites: background and foreground scrolling at different speeds
[08:51] <theopensourcerer> lol - I hadn't noticed that until you mentioned it SuperMatt
[08:52] <theopensourcerer> That's quite cool.
[08:52] <SuperMatt> cool, yes, but useful? readable? no
[08:55] <ali1234> if the background is making the text unreadable then the scrolling isn't the main problem
[09:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:06] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[09:06] <SuperMatt> good morning
[09:07] <bittin^work> morning
[09:07] <brobostigon> morning bittin^work , BigRedS amd SuperMatt
[09:46] <popey> hmm, my nexus 7 has 4.1.2 but the home screen doesn't rotate
[09:47] <brobostigon> popey: have you disabled the rotate lock, in the notification menu?
[09:49] <AlanBell> popey: home screen rotates on ours
[09:49] <AlanBell> popey: so, when will the Ubuntu flashing instructions be published?
[09:49] <AlanBell> and can you easily back up the stock system?
[09:51] <SuperMatt> oooh, finally my s3 is updating
[09:53] <AlanBell> Mark Shuttleworth should be over in #ubuntu-classroom in 5 minutes or so answering questions
[09:53] <AlanBell> questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[09:53] <popey> notification menu?
[09:54] <popey> oh that
[09:55] <SuperMatt> oh poops, I missed mark's bit
[09:55] <SuperMatt> where are the logs?
[09:55] <popey> it hasnt started
[09:55] <AlanBell> "in 5 minutes or so"
[09:55] <SuperMatt> oh
[09:55] <SuperMatt> awesome
[09:55] <SuperMatt> hooray
[09:55] <SuperMatt> for UTC
[09:56] <SuperMatt> thanks guys for letting me know :)
[09:58] <knightwise> hey peeps
[09:59] <knightwise> grr
[10:00] <knightwise> installed 12.04
[10:00] <knightwise> upped the proprietary ATI driver
[10:00] <knightwise> and no I cant get dual screen anymore :(
[10:00] <diplo> I had loads of issues with dual screen on 12.04, 'just worked' on 12.10
[10:02] <knightwise> hmm.. :( 12.10 was still pretty buggy for me unfortunately
[10:02] <knightwise> just downgraded to 12.04 again
[10:02] <knightwise> in 12.04  it worked out of the box too
[10:02] <knightwise> then i installed the proprietary driver ..
[10:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:04] <knightwise> any idea how i can dump the proprietary driver ?
[10:05] <knightwise> required virtual size does not fit available size: requested=(3840, 1200), minimum=(320, 200), maximum=(1920, 1920)
[10:05] <diplo> I've changed xorg in the past, but I'm pretty much sure there is a way, I'll goggle a sec
[10:05] <knightwise> or where i can tweak this
[10:05] <diplo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1869540
[10:11] <knightwise> hey diddledan
[10:14] <BigRedS> Bah. 12.10's been released and now I'm having problems with it. When does 13.04 become available for testing?
[10:16] <diplo> heh
[10:17] <BigRedS> _every_ time, I spend the beta and RCs going "this is wonderful, everything's working" and then within days of release things start breaking...
[10:18] <dwatkins> Clearly you should have kept stumm, BigRedS :-/
[10:18] <BigRedS> I need a ubuntu equivalent of Debian Testing
[10:18] <BigRedS> or just Debian testing...
[10:19] <dwatkins> I'm curious to try Debian, havn't used it for years. I got the impression it was more geared to being a server OS than a desktop one last time I used it.
[10:20] <BigRedS> Debian stable makes a rubbish desktop
[10:20] <BigRedS> because everything's so old. I used Testing on my laptop until not that long a go when I stuck 12.10 on it
[10:21] <BigRedS> Testing used to be basically an ugly Ubuntu that broke more frequently, but now that Gnome3 is pretty by default it's just Ubuntu without a lot of the nifty little tools or Unity
[10:22] <theopensourcerer> Gosh Debian Testing sounds great!
[10:22] <BigRedS> haha
[10:23] <BigRedS> I used to run Ubuntu with Gnome-shell on one PC and Debian on another and the big difference was the fonts
[10:23] <dwatkins> because stuff is old? ;)
[10:23] <BigRedS> I do really like the ubuntu monospace font
[10:23]  * dwatkins runs xeyes and compiles fvwm2
[10:23] <dwatkins> If I feel lonely later on I might start xteddy so I have someone to talk to ;)
[11:37] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: like SPL?
[11:51] <Knightwise> hmm.. is it just me or does the launcher feel faster in 12.04
[11:52] <popey> if it's slower, tell is via the gift of a bug report
[11:52] <popey> and do you mean dash?
[11:52] <davmor2> Knightwise: it's faster for me in 12.10 although the minimise animations are slower but that is fairly trivial to speed up :)
[11:53] <Knightwise> popey: i mean the dash indeed
[11:56] <popey> what video card Knightwise ?
[12:05] <Knightwise> popey: an ATI , i 'll log in at home to check
[12:05] <Knightwise> uut and abuut right now
[12:06]  * Knightwise is on his macbook air , tethered to his iphone, logged into his ubuntu VM at home ,
[12:25]  * BigRedS assumed Knightwise is canadian
[12:25] <BigRedS> (based on being "ooot and aboot"
[12:25] <BigRedS> )
[12:26] <dwatkins> Tethering is only possible in Canada?
[12:29] <BigRedS> Nah, the way I read all those double us accent
[12:29] <BigRedS> er
[12:29] <BigRedS> s/accent$//
[12:32] <dwatkins> double user?
[12:34] <mgdm> BigRedS: Scottish would work too
[12:35] <dwatkins> aye
[12:40] <BigRedS> ah yeah
[13:35] <BigRedS> Anyone know if it's possible to get a self-hosted caldav calendar to appear in Google calendar?
[13:36] <theopensourcerer> BigRedS: Sure. export your calendar as ICS and then import it into Google ;-)
[13:37] <BigRedS> Hm. That could work
[13:37] <BigRedS> I've been doing so much daft screen-scraping stuff recently that, really, I'd be quite up for knocking that together...
[13:38] <theopensourcerer> There is a half/decent google API for Calendar integration and some client libs
[13:38] <BigRedS> Oooh. I could even do it properly
[13:38] <theopensourcerer> But from my experience CalDAV seems to be a client/server kind of arrangement rather than a peer-peer.
[13:39] <daubers> CalDAV (like iCal) SUCKS
[13:39] <theopensourcerer> I use Lightning as a CalDAV consumer to Google
[13:39] <theopensourcerer> Works fine.
[13:39] <theopensourcerer> CalDAV is basically ICS over WebDAV
[13:40] <BigRedS> daubers: yeah, this is largely because a customer wants caldav and I want something to learn it on where it doesn't matter too much if I break it
[13:40] <theopensourcerer> Davical
[13:40] <BigRedS> yeah, that's the one we're using
[13:41] <theopensourcerer> It's pretty much the only game in town. Used to be Cosmo (Chandler Project) but hasn't been touched in ages.
[13:42] <theopensourcerer> OpenERP supports CalDAV and a calendar server too.
[13:42] <theopensourcerer> http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/CosmoHome
[13:42] <BigRedS> Always plugging the OpenERP :)
[13:43] <theopensourcerer> Just sayin
[13:43] <BigRedS> haha, yeah :)
[13:43] <BigRedS> It's all postgresy, too, so I might also end up finally using a real database
[13:44] <BigRedS> I've been meaning to do that for ages, but MySQL's pretty comfortable
[13:49] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1071298
[13:49] <popey> \o/
[14:02] <BigRedS> that's a new bug? :)
[14:02] <popey> well indeed
[14:02] <popey> i couldn't find an existing one
[14:02] <popey> but I poked someone to fix it
[14:03] <BigRedS> Yeah, I read it and it's not something I'd have seen. I just meant that for aaaaages normal behaviour was to get an apparently random screen
[14:03] <popey> :)
[14:03] <diplo> Anyone recommend a good program to copy down youtube vids ?
[14:04] <BigRedS> Which reminds me, are there guidelines to say when my envelope is supposed to be blue for webapps? Mine seems to *always* be blue
[14:21] <AlanBell> popey: surely that is intended behavior?
[14:21] <popey> intended that ALT+TAB gives you the window you were already on?
[14:21] <popey> no
[14:21] <AlanBell> wow
[14:22] <popey> what?
[14:22] <popey> sorry, i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what
[14:22] <AlanBell> no, I thought it was supposed to be application switching
[14:23] <AlanBell> so slow alt-tab would take you to some random window of the next application in the z-index
[14:23] <popey> this is specifically an issue for multiple windows of the same app
[14:23] <AlanBell> because everyone has a natural grasp of the z-index of applications
[14:24] <AlanBell> oh I see, if you let go after the alt-tab bar comes up, but before the detail switcher arrives
[14:24] <popey> yes
[14:25] <theopensourcerer> ALT+TAB never seems to do what I want :-(
[14:27] <theopensourcerer> Especially with a multiple monitor setup as I have just demonstrated to my erstwhile colleague
[14:44] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=M660rjNCH0A :D
[15:31] <bootlkjkgf>  õò   ГЕДĽĽЧ
[15:31] <dwatkins> Gesundheit
[15:42] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: not looked at it any further than googling PHP SPL. Should I dig a little deeper?
[15:43] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: Its pretty much life changing.
[15:43] <dogmatic69> Iterators are awesome.
[15:44] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: do you have an example?
[15:44] <dogmatic69> ever done something like CSV imports?
[15:45] <bigcalm> Yes
[15:45] <dogmatic69> you used cakePHP before?
[15:45] <bigcalm> Still managing 2 1.1 apps
[15:49] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: not sure how 1.1 models were but should be similar.
[15:49] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/267198432
[15:49] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: vert neat
[15:50] <bigcalm> Green?
[15:50] <bigcalm> Very neat
[15:50] <dogmatic69> heeh
[15:50] <dogmatic69> I updated a bit there.
[15:51] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: as you can see, minimal code. The main thin is that memory usage does not climb.
[15:51] <bigcalm> That is nice
[15:51] <dogmatic69> I am importing a csv with 40k rows and memory usage remains the same from before the import through done
[15:51] <bigcalm> Lots of freading going on I guess
[15:52] <dogmatic69> well it does not read the entire file. It reads line by line
[15:52] <dogmatic69> pretty much like doing less in terminal.
[15:52] <bigcalm> Indeed
[15:52] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: have you been sucked into PHP 5.4 yet?
[15:52] <dogmatic69> You can see more usage in the tests https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/tree/dev/Core/Data/Test/Case/Lib/Csv
[15:53] <dogmatic69> I have it on my one dev box, but my app does not run on 5.4
[15:53] <dogmatic69> E_STRICT :(
[15:53] <bigcalm> I was rather surprised that my laptop is now using PHP 5.4 since upgrading to Ubuntu 12.10
[15:53] <dogmatic69> errors, errors every where.
[15:53] <bigcalm> Yeah, that's my concern with some existing projects
[15:53] <dogmatic69> 5.4 is default with 10.10?
[15:53] <bigcalm> 12.10, yes
[15:53] <dogmatic69> 12.10*
[15:53] <dogmatic69> damn. I almost upgraded...
[15:54] <dogmatic69> Will have to wait till I fix the errors
[15:54] <bigcalm> I'm keeping my dev server on LTS
[15:54] <bigcalm> You could always pin PHP to 5.3
[15:54] <dogmatic69> I use php5-dev on my boxes.
[15:54] <dogmatic69> added some ppa for 5.4 and mysql 5.5 on the other one.
[15:57] <mrevell> Anyone here from Manchester LUG?
[15:58] <bigcalm> mrevell: you might have better luck asking in #phpnw
[15:58] <mrevell> cheers bigcalm
[15:59] <bigcalm> Though TBH, I don't know how many Linux users there are in the PHP dev community
[15:59] <bigcalm> I wish it were 100%
[16:04] <mgdm> mrevell: ping?
[16:08] <mrevell> mgdm, Yo. I've totally failed to send you any slightly broken Acers. Sorry about that.
[16:08] <mrevell> mgdm, Yo. I've totally failed to send you any slightly broken Acers. Sorry about that.
[16:08] <mgdm> mrevell: hehe, no worries, I was ust wondering if I'd forgotten to do something :)
[16:08] <mgdm> mrevell: I'm in no hurry so take your time
[16:09] <mrevell> XChat is a bit broken, so I can't see anything
[16:09] <mgdm> that any better?
[16:28] <Azelphur> Hmm, does a phone being off stop it being able to receive text messages?
[16:28] <Azelphur> me phone is throwing errors when trying to text a specific person
[16:28] <Azelphur> my*
[16:28] <mgdm> No
[16:28] <mgdm> it's a store-and-forward system
[16:28] <Azelphur> oddness \o/
[16:29] <mgdm> if the number doesn't exist, it might throw a wobbly
[16:29] <mgdm> I've heard that, at least
[16:29] <Azelphur> nah it definitely exists because I've texted it before loads of times
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> maybe they cancelled the contract?
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> or maybe you've been tagged as a stalker?
[16:29] <Azelphur> haha, perhaps :P
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> maybe the server is down?
[16:30] <Azelphur> It's an iPhone user, so I'll blame that :D
[16:30]  * Azelphur points and laughs at iPhone
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> they ran out of money for their plan then ;)
[16:30] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:36] <Azelphur> I just did the stalker thing and texted her son anyway
[16:37] <Azelphur> xD
[16:59] <webpigeon> Azelphur: take the battery out, wait a while and put it back in
[16:59] <webpigeon> then clobber the user round the head for breaking their text messages and owning an iphone
[17:00] <webpigeon> or just try again, your call :P
[17:00] <Azelphur> hehe
[17:15] <Flashtek> right, where can I get a CCTV setup with audio that's safe to use outdoors that will not break the bank
[17:15] <Flashtek> ?
[17:19] <AlanBell> Flashtek: £35 ok for you?
[17:19] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/
[17:19] <bootlkjkgf> Flashtek, Npt sure I'm leading down the wrong path, but I think Chris Pirillo had one in his latest vidz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWsE9mJovTc&feature=g-all-u
[17:26] <Flashtek> AlanBell: £35 is ok :)
[17:27] <AlanBell> that one is outside but under cover slightly
[17:27] <Myrtti> well, I feel accomplished today. Survived a shopping trip to Ikea and a big computer retailer without too much purchased, and I've applied for two jobs. Don't know should I try my luck and try a mince pie.
[17:29] <Flashtek> i need to cover the porch area out the front
[17:30] <Myrtti> btw waiting for the first snow to fall :-P
[17:30] <Flashtek> the PTZ is not a requirement, but if it's already there, so be it
[17:34] <AlanBell> no Z
[17:36] <Flashtek> AlanBell: can that cam be PoE powered ?
[17:36] <AlanBell> it wants 5v
[17:36] <Flashtek> supplied with PSU ?
[17:36] <Flashtek> but 5v poe ?
[17:37] <AlanBell> you could strip a pair out of an ethernet cable and with some solder and gaffer tape sort it out :)
[17:38] <Flashtek> has night vision facility onboard ?
[17:39] <AlanBell> yes
[17:39] <AlanBell> in darkness the LEDs turn on and you get black and white images
[17:39] <Flashtek> that's fine
[17:39] <AlanBell> the sensor doesn't change mode
[17:40] <AlanBell> in fact if you look at the picture now you can see the bricks are black and white and the window in the door is yellow
[17:40] <AlanBell> it is dark out there
[17:41] <Flashtek> kk
[17:41] <Flashtek> oh yeah
[17:42] <SuperEngineer> solder, gaffer tape, LEDs, night vision..... SuperEngineer is sweating... this is SuperEngineer pornography
[17:44] <SuperEngineer> if the next item includes dip switches & firmware resets.... I'm a gonna!
[17:45] <Flashtek> SuperEngineer: how about we start talking RS485 ?
[17:45] <SuperEngineer> oooo... oooo - stop it!
[17:52]  * Flashtek gets his RJ45/RJ11 crimper out and points it at SuperEngineer 
[17:53] <Darael> Flashtek: I should be careful, were I thee.  No knowing what might happen if thou pushest SuperEngineer much further.
[17:55] <Flashtek> hmm.... i need to think about the logistics of getting a power source out to the front door...
[17:57]  * SuperEngineer thanks Darael for saving SuperEngineer
[17:59] <SuperEngineer> has anyone tried [with no ill effects] adding Cinamon to desktop options? [ http://www.linuxbsdos.com/category/ubuntu/ ]
[18:01] <Flashtek> AlanBell: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-Ethernet-Including-Injector-Splitter/dp/B0038X3RVA/ref=pd_sim_computers_1
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> actually - this link is more relevant: http://tinyurl.com/cinamondesktop
[18:02] <AlanBell> Flashtek: anyhow, it has wifi
[18:02] <AlanBell> all you need to do is run power to it
[18:02] <AlanBell> or do Power over Wifi :)
[18:02] <Flashtek> yeah, i need a PoW injector then right ?
[18:02] <AlanBell> exactly :)
[18:03] <shauno> this is fantastic fun.  an ssl problem at google affecting users in ireland.  and absolutely no way to contact google about it, because they want you to go via google groups, and accounts.google.com requires ssl
[18:03] <Flashtek> and where can i get one ?
[18:04] <Flashtek> lol
[18:15] <SuperEngineer> bbs - gonna have a look at this cinamon thing... doing the "don't knock it if you don't know it principle"
[18:32] <bootlkjkgf> Flashtek, http://hackaday.com/2012/10/25/a-beautiful-pinhole-camera-takes-wonderful-photos/
[18:48] <SuperEngineer> hmmm; just tried cinamon on 12.04... & forced to admit that I *can* see it's merits [& congrats to the devs & designers]
[18:48] <SuperEngineer> ,,,  I'm back here on Unity though ;)
[18:53] <exaem> I really like Unity on 12.10
[18:53] <exaem> 12.10 is just awesome
[20:39] <d3ngar> Hi, I seem to have a problem removing courier-imap
[20:39] <d3ngar> I get this error message:
[20:39] <d3ngar> * ERR: /usr/sbin/couriertcpd missing
[21:21] <zleap> HI
[21:21] <zleap> is the following technically correct ?
[21:21] <zleap> I have also set up 3 laptops with ubuntu and lubuntu which is based on the GNU/Linux kernel.
[21:21] <directhex> zleap: no.
[21:21] <zleap> ok
[21:21] <zleap> what should it be then
[21:22] <directhex> zleap: the kernel is Linux. the OS is GNU/Linux. so either based on the Linux kernel or based on the GNU/Linux OS
[21:22] <directhex> hint: the former is better since the latter makes you sound like a pretentious douche
[21:22] <zleap> i have no idea what pretentios douch is
[21:22] <zleap> or means
[21:23] <zleap> so can you help me reword that properly
[21:23] <zleap> Set up laptops to run the GNU/Linux operating system
[21:23] <directhex> that'll do
[21:24] <zleap> thanks
[21:24] <directhex> d3ngar: sounds like you're missing part of the package - so when the uninstall tries to stop the daemon, the daemon is missing, causing script failure
[21:24] <directhex> d3ngar: try erasing /var/lib/dpkg/info/courier-imap.prerm
[21:24] <directhex> or something along those lines
[21:24] <directhex> the prerm script is the one called before files are erased, typically to stop daemons
[21:26] <d3ngar> directhex: Will try
[21:26] <d3ngar> Thanks
[21:30] <bigcalm> Tum te tum