[09:44] ailo-w, wait a minute I saw yesterday's logs and found that genii-around is doing the session for you or am I wrong? [09:44] ailo, ^ [09:44] smartboyhw: No, he pasted my writing in [09:44] ailo, oh why? [09:45] smartboyhw: No one told me I needed to authorize the session myself [09:45] ailo, er............ what? [09:45] So, when it was my time, the place was pretty emtpy [09:45] I did my thing in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, and genii-around pasted the text for me, for the logs [09:45] Hmm pretty weird......:P [09:46] smartboyhw: Apparently, you need a Ubuntu irc cloak to be able to do the athorization [09:46] Anyway we aren't including Wubi right? There was a bug 1070682 [09:46] Launchpad bug 1070682 in Ubuntu Studio "wubi and ubuntu studio" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1070682 [09:46] smartboyhw: Head to #ubuntu-classroom-backstage in good time, to get some info, etc [09:46] smartboyhw: Let's add that to the blueprints (I'll do it) [09:46] ailo, actually I tell you what... That was the organizer's problem [09:47] Apparently they forgot to put you into the fridge calendar for Ubuntu Learning events, so you don't get to be authorized [09:47] ailo, I may go and ask why they forgot [09:48] smartboyhw: Well, I think he thought I knew how things worked. Doesn't matter. I only got one questions, so I don't think anyone missed anything [09:48] smartboyhw: Forget about it [09:48] ailo, Ah:P [09:48] Yeah anyway:P [10:19] ailo, you created the blueprint already? Good [10:21] smartboyhw: Yes, I'm starting some work on that now. It's still in drafting stage, so please use the wiki until the launchpad blueprint is ready (I should have waited with subscribing everyone, thinking of it) [10:21] LOL [10:28] ailo, I have a thought: Since we are gonna focus on development and testing, can we add a ubuntustudio-r-testing or ubuntustudio-r-development that sort of thing? I would love to see a seperate blueprint for testing [10:31] ailo-w, ^ [10:43] smartboyhw: Would you mind writing about that on the mail list? As for development, no. Cause the whole blueprint is development [10:43] ailo, :D [10:43] smartboyhw: As for testing, all I can think of is docs for testing, which is already suggested [10:44] smartboyhw: I will try to organize the blueprints as well as I can, according to what people suggest, and how I interpret their suggestions [10:45] ailo, actually I think of one work item now. How do we PROMOTE to contribute for us? We have developer documentation, but then how can we attract them to help? [10:46] smartboyhw: That is also something under development [10:46] ailo, gd:P [10:46] smartboyhw: We don't have dev docs yet, which we need before we start inviting lots of people [10:46] smartboyhw: Since you are interested in testing, I would suggest you think more about that. [10:47] ailo, I think I will do the testing documentation:D (Mostly copied from Wiki pages, and my session about 3.25 hours later) [10:48] smartboyhw: You are welcome to do that. And please be prepared for opinions about it. I, especially will want to review everything doc related [10:48] smartboyhw: You can start working on things even before there's a blueprint or a workitem for it [10:48] ailo, yeah you are the doc lead. What opinions do you want to list [10:48] smartboyhw: Just that you make sure, it's not already under development [10:48] ailo, OK [10:48] smartboyhw: I don't have any opinions before I have something to have opinions about :) [10:49] LOL [10:49] smartboyhw: But, as you already know, we will want the testing to be multimedia specific mostly, and leave Ubuntu/Xubuntu testing for those distros [10:49] ailo, ok:P [10:50] Hi scott-work came so early? [10:51] goog morning smartboyhw , yes, i did. i spent the majority of my day in meetings and addressing problems for others that i couldn't get my own work done [10:51] scott-work, ah [10:51] but such is the life of a supervisor/acting-manager [10:51] scott-work, add oil [10:51] Recently, I'm not eating as well, cause I'm too busy to work out. This is not good :(. I'll need to bring my running shoes to UDS [10:51] smartboyhw: I don't think a separate testing blueprint for a particular flavor makes much sense, unless it's a very specific area of testing. Only things that I can come up with would be related to some diverse multimedia-related tools. [10:52] add oil? i do not understand [10:52] scott-work, it means giving support (in Hong Kong-ese:P) [10:52] ailo: i am excited for you to go to UDS! [10:52] astraljava, ah alright [10:52] it was a very, very moving and inspirational moment for me [10:52] One day if UDS is coming to Hong Kong (just mentioned in Ask Mark Session) I will attend for sure [10:52] scott-work: Yeah, it will be great fun to meet some of the people you only see nick names for [10:53] the biggest suggestion i can think of is to introduce yourself to as many people as you can and build relationships [10:53] We will need to do documentation for testing, so it at least falls under that category [10:53] the second biggest suggestion is to write people's names down :P [10:53] scott-work: Yeah, that's usually not my strong point, but I'm planning to :) [10:53] smartboyhw: If you're interested in developing the testing process, you should talk to Nick and Gema, and Phill. I'm sure they'll have blueprints dedicated for such things. [10:54] scott-work: And, remembering names is another problem I have [10:54] astraljava, I need to wait for Nick to finish his holiday:P [10:54] * scott-work actually had to write down names and a short sentence describing them, perhaps a visual cue or a personality type [10:54] Yeah ok, but then that means that side of dev hasn't started yet. [10:54] astraljava, I will ask don't worry;p [10:55] scott-work, LOL [10:55] i would expect that we would have a more generalized 'documentation' blueprint, perhaps? [10:55] for dev stuff, user stuff, testing stuff, maybe "our" dev stuff [10:55] scott-work: I've only started the blueprints, but I'm actually dividing docs into subgroups [10:55] define where stuff goes, i.e. on the website or the wiki [10:55] etc, etc, etc [10:56] I don't think we need to decide where things end up as a first step [10:56] scott-work, he did I think [10:56] i was going to look at the blueprint brainstorming page again this morning, look at your additions, and make any changes [10:56] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-ubuntustudio-r-documentation [10:56] First create the material, then edit it [10:56] ailo: i meant, more of where the documentation should reside [10:56] i feel pretty strongly that all user docs should be on the website [10:57] scott-work, I feel very strongly that basic user docs should be on the computer [10:57] the dev stuff (both for us and new devs) and maybe the testing stuff might be on the wiki [10:57] lol, smartboyhw [10:57] scott-work: Yeah, I know. But, first we need to create the docs, so where they go may be a question answered best after we have it done [10:57] scott-work, not lol It is a belief for me [10:57] The dev stuff should be on wiki though, makes more sense [10:58] i would go to the point of saying that i would "abandon" the user.ubuntu.com pages since my experience has been that most users (who are not also into ubuntu) find out information, including download links, from the website [10:58] therefore, i would say the website should be the nexus for all user information and activities [10:58] Currently, I'm not sure we will get a full user documentation in place for this cycle. I know I can do the audio workflow, and some general stuff, etc. But, to do the other workflows would mean a lot of investigation and research for me, which I will not have time for [10:59] ailo: understood. i can help with the video and graphics (not make them great, but certainly improve them) and photogrphay and publishing might have to wait until next cycle [10:59] ailo: i wanted to ask, why does all the headings have "Q-" before them? should it be "R-"? [11:00] I think the community wiki is a good place to start, and once we have something that is good enough for the website, we can always just copy and paste [11:00] scott-work, ailo did change the headings [11:00] scott-work: I changed that :P [11:00] ailo: good. i was confused for a bit :) [11:00] scott-work: I didn't know what they were for, until I started thinking more about it. Just used them as headings [11:01] I'm going back to the "office" [11:02] ailo: i suppose i have two main concerns about the docs: i already mentioned that i believe most users go to the website primarily for information, but also i wanted to avoid doubling our efforts to maintain two sets of docs [11:02] * scott-work realizes that "doubling efforts" isn't literallly 2x the work in this case [11:02] I think the most important thing is: Can ailo handle BOTH docs at a time [11:03] scott-work: The wiki can be scrapped, later. Or used in some other way. But, it is a much better place to work from initially, I feel [11:04] I don't propose dual sets of docs. Just one for development, and perhaps when it is done, another for publishing [11:04] bbs [11:06] good point about starting in the wiki [11:12] i think ai.lo said this in the wiki page, but i really would like to aggressively campaign for crowdsourcing more contributions from users, like art, etc [11:13] i should also point out that dick macinnis has (and probably still is) functioning as "art lead" [11:13] he is capable and wants to collaborate on ideas as well [11:14] and hopefully to avoid an conflict, this isn't a binary situation; this or that. we can still crowdsource art but also have dick macinnis sort through or work with user submissions [11:18] heh, back at the office, and again, heading home [11:21] ........What? [11:24] scott-work: Cool. Is he ever on in here? [11:25] astraljava: sometimes he comes on, but not very often at all [11:25] What's his nick of choice, then? [11:25] he is a working musician so i'm not sure how often he has time to idle here [11:25] Oh, I'm not worrying about that. [11:26] scott-work: Your opinion on Between the Buried And Me? [11:26] Who? [11:34] That was a well spent half an hour :P. Well, i got that excercise I was just complaining about not getting [11:35] astraljava: i haven't heard much from them, probably just a song or two on the radio [11:35] * scott-work is pretty insular these days about music and listens to mostly talk radio or podcasts [11:35] * scott-work admits he is getting old :P [11:39] scott-work, LOL [11:40] astraljava: i did manage to find a way to discard all emails from a particular domain in mailman [11:41] * scott-work is tired of having to discard the practically daily emails from @loresiaroles.com [11:41] LOL [11:42] scott-work, are you sure that works? i think i did some filtering and that made everything not pass O:) [11:43] in Privacy options... -> Sender Filters i added ^[^@]+@loresiaroles\.com$ [11:43] mmh [11:43] which i know have an email notification of an auto-discard [11:43] knome: i dug into the mailman docs to find this [11:43] hehe [11:43] i was worried as well because it looks scary :P [11:44] scott-work: Cool. I assume we won't run into many issues before the cd build mails start coming in again. :) [11:44] i (and others apparently) were trying the wildcard *@loresiaroles.com which wasn't working [11:44] lol, astraljava , true, but hopefully these work again [12:01] one goal for me this cycle is to start creating informative/tutorial videos for ubuntu studio [12:01] it would be nice to also add voice over translations as well [12:02] youtube allows for subtitles easily, but it would be very nice if we could have audio translations for each of the videos as well [12:02] i would happily and easily replace the english audio with other languages if they could be provided [12:02] does vimeo or some other service support that then? [12:03] knome: i do not know much about vimeo, i have used it some in the past, but not recently [12:05] quick google search does not show that vimeo can do subtitles at this point [12:05] although there are third party apps to do this [12:06] of course it could also be simply added to the video itself, regardless of where it is hosted [12:06] mm [12:08] i believe youtube would allow you to host a single video but add various subtitle translations to that file [12:08] mmh, don't know [12:08] i would expect that people would prefer to have the audio in their native language rather than a subtitle translation [12:09] which results in more videos (of the same content) but this is hosting/player agnostic then [12:09] either way, i plan to start within a month or so [12:10] i'll keep the original files so translations can be sussed out at some point if we decide to do them [12:11] knome: what application is the xubuntu help in? [12:11] yelp? [12:11] scott-work, firefocx [12:11] -c [12:11] oh, is that like html? [12:12] yep [12:12] okay. that seems like a better way to do than a particular application format [12:13] i think yelp is a restaurant rating service now that i think about it. i wonder what application i was thinking about. [12:13] LOL [12:13] restaurant rating;P [12:13] yelp probably [12:13] i think the gnome docs are on yelp, and that's why yelp is on xubuntu too [12:14] smartboyhw: really...http://www.yelp.com/houston [12:14] oh, so yelp is both, and i was right...and wrong :P [12:18] what is nice about html is that i believe you can create and edits the docs in libre office or even microsoft word, and export to html [12:19] urrr.. [12:19] well [12:19] they export awful html [12:19] xubuntu docs are in docbook and converted to html [12:20] ah, that is good to know [12:20] question: does anyone else use different background images (or wallpapers) for the different workspaces or monitors? [12:21] well, we used to ship two wallpapers for precise, left and right, for this purpose [12:21] No [13:17] scott-work, once I get working not much of the BG shows anyway :) [13:37] scott-work: Feels like we're really putting up high goals for this release [13:37] ailo, we ARE:D [13:38] We really should try get more people involved. I'll work double time on dev docs for this reason [13:38] ailo, WOW.................... [13:38] * smartboyhw is amazed [14:07] hmm, not much use looking at the dependency tree https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-r-flavor-ubuntustudio [14:09] ailo, ya I can't read it :) [14:14] The tool tips work though and I can read those. [14:15] * len-dt is off to work... [14:15] len-dt: Ah, good [14:15] I should probably rename them to something short and easily read [14:35] ailo: how did the presentation go? [14:48] holstein: I was never athorized to #ubuntu-classroom when I was to go on, so I did my thing at #ubuntustudio-chate [14:48] #ubuntustudio-classroom-chat * [14:48] knome: do you recall the name of the package you include the help files or the release notes? [14:49] Someone was kind to paste the entire session to the correct channel afterwards. I only got one question [14:49] oh, i had a comment on my blog i wanted to share, let me dig it up [14:49] Hey there ubuntu, Just installed 12.10 over 12.04 Don't know what you guys did, it works at least 10% faster. Great job. [14:50] this was for the ubuntu studio 12.10 release announcement so i'm pretty sure he knew this was about ubuntu STUDIO, but again, maybe not [14:50] yeah... thats a good comment [14:50] it probably will make len-dt feel good about his work :) [14:50] lol [14:50] for that one person and hardware case... though i fine 12.10 peppy too [14:51] find* [14:51] did we ever change the website to announce 12.10 release? [14:51] * holstein checks [14:51] scott-work: It's announced in the news page [14:51] But, we don't have anything on the front page [14:51] http://ubuntustudio.org/download/ is up to date it seems [14:51] It's all up to date [14:52] yeah... i think its good like that [14:52] when you hit download, you get the current iso [14:52] We could add a new slide for, 12.10 just released [14:53] eh.. i say keep it easy [14:53] now we just edit some text to stay up to date [14:56] It's not a big thing to do, adding one slide. Just write some text, and add a picture for it. Commonly, you have some sort of news on the front page about new releases [14:56] You can either write some text on the page itself, or add a slide (if it's the first in line, it will be the first thing you see when you open the site) [14:58] holstein: Just look at any other derivative [14:58] Or, Ubuntu itself [14:58] * smartboyhw is back [14:58] from the session [14:59] in ways i miss having the news items on the home page (but realizes others don't feel the same) [15:00] but ubuntu and kubuntu has a either an image stating "*buntu 12.10" and/or a button to download 12.10 [15:01] xubuntu has a "blog feed" section that shows xubuntu 12.10 as released [15:01] therefore all have it announce in some way on the landing page [15:01] heh, lubuntu also has it posted on their landing page as a news feed [15:02] we should yhen [15:02] *then [15:17] i think it was stochasti that was a big fan of keeping the landing page clean [15:17] * scott-work isn't implying that this is the way it _should_ be, just noted who he remembered favoured this approach [15:17] scott-work, LOL [15:18] What I think is that: Why can't we announce alpha and beta releases on the website? [15:18] Only final releases available: Too dull [15:18] That would be a good idea, to get more testers [15:18] An idea for next time around [15:18] :D [15:19] astraljava: I think I found a way to use the ubuntustudio team for a good purpose further on [15:20] ailo, oh? [15:20] astraljava: We should start sending mails to that team on things like asking for participants for testing, etc [15:20] ailo, ah good suggestion, but then we already have the -users mailing list for that... [15:20] I think people who join that team probably were hoping to contribute in one way or another [15:21] smartboyhw: We don't need to put all our eggs in one basket [15:21] ailo, !? [15:21] can't understand this acronym [15:22] smartboyhw: If the basket falls, all eggs are broken. If you use many baskets, a few eggs spilled is not the end of the world [15:22] It's a common saying [15:22] OK so Basket 1. -users mail list 2. ~ubuntustudio LP team 3. -devel mail list 4. ubuntustudio.org am I wrong? [15:22] smartboyhw: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+all+eggs+in+one+basket [15:23] smartboyhw: In this case, we have a team which we are not using for anything good. [15:23] Ok sorry I don't know much about idioms [15:23] So, why not use it for something, which I believe it's members are even expecting it to be used for [15:23] ailo, make good use of it and wait: Isn't there a ~ubuntustudio-testing LP team? [15:25] smartboyhw: Yes. But the person who has that team is not active right now. [15:25] All though, we should try to put all teams into good use [15:26] the ubuntustudio team would be a good way to reach users who might want to help [15:31] ailo, I may contact that person to take over the ~ubuntustudio-testers team to you or me then. Will try [15:31] ailo, wait that guy is stochastic ! [15:32] Ah, he's online even [15:32] smartboyhw: Well, go ahead and ask [15:32] OK [15:32] stochastic, you here? [15:32] PING [15:42] stochastic: As perhaps you read from the backscroll (when you returned), we were wondering if it were possible to overtake the -testing team. smartboyhw would probably like to use it for something (yet undefined) [15:45] holstein: Something you could do? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations [15:46] Ah, I still need to work on the wiki page a bit, but one could start looking at how to reach out in the media [15:46] public relations! [15:47] Yeah, sounds really professional. Let's try to make it that too [15:47] If holstein can do it, should we learn Xubuntu for having a marketing lead [15:47] and get holstein to do it [15:48] God that blueprint dependency tree is killing me...How on Earth do we have so many blueprints? [15:48] I think they could have made the imaging of it a bit more flexible [15:49] But, the dependency tree is not that important [15:49] It's the workitems [15:49] And we should try to get people to work on specific blueprints, so not everyone is working on everything [15:50] As I say I will mainly work on the testing documentation [15:51] So maybe we could do "Assignee" changed? [15:51] *changes [15:52] smartboyhw: You remember when I talked about how it's bad if everyone in a football team are all chasing the ball? [15:52] ailo, stop using idioms please.......:( [15:52] smartboyhw: I will take care of the details, but if you do spot something that is not right, please do tell [15:52] Just talk straight [15:53] i have items that i would like to add to the public relations blueprint. quite a lot actually :D [15:54] bye all anyway:P [15:54] see you around smartboyhw [15:54] i wouldn't mind heading that blueprint up if no one in particular feels strongly about doing it [15:54] by smartboyhw [15:54] scott-work: Go crazy, why not? [15:54] hehe [15:55] It was the first blueprint I started adding workitems for [15:55] ailo, add oil:P [15:56] lol, he keeps telling me that as well [15:56] Yeah, seems like common expression in HK [15:56] To boost morale, perhaps [15:56] i am thinking that the PR wiki page could be the final result of the blueprint using the whiteboard (on the blueprint) to suss out the details and include notes [15:56] wow, poorly written sentence [15:57] IRC curse, inflicting on your writing skills [15:57] got a meeting, be back in a bit [15:57] yeah [17:13] scott-work, I just received a request from smartboyhw to take over ownership of the ubuntustudio-testers group in launchpad. Currently I'm listed as the owner. I'm curious if I should instead change the owner to ubuntustudio-devs [17:15] personally, I think the owner should be the project lead with the testing lead as an admin [17:15] Ah, yeah. That should work [17:16] so is scott the project lead currently? [17:17] stochastic: Yep [17:17] what reasons for this more specific ownership scheme do you suggest micahg? If the dev team collectively owns the testing team then turnover in the project lead position will have less impact on the group itself. [17:18] and less paperwork to alter [17:18] stochastic: project lead has final say on who runs the testing team (owner can add/modify/remove users), testing lead can add/modify/remove users, but not the owner) [17:18] Also, not all teams can have admins, or? [17:18] ailo: im not saying you cant or shouldnt add a slide [17:18] ailo: im just saying, right now, its easy for me to ask knome to update a little text [17:19] holstein: I do the updating for the most part [17:19] holstein: We have team for that, you know [17:19] ailo: sure.. go for it [17:19] ailo: but, if you are busy, and its says "new release 12.10 and its may 2013... [17:19] admin for testing lead only makes sense if the idea is to build a team and the lead has been told to find more people [17:20] micahg, okay, but why not just set the developer team as the owner? [17:20] ailo: im most just thinking future proof... and easy admin-ing.. but like i said, i have no problems with a sile [17:20] slide* [17:21] stochastic: that would allow any member of the dev team to "in theory" hijack the team, also, owner decides who's a member/admin and who isn't, it doesn't seem to make sense for the dev team to "own" that role [17:21] holstein: We used to have a problem with getting the website updated, but since we have control over it ourselves now, that kind of things is not likely to happen anymore [17:22] team as owner makes sense when each member of the team is empowered to manage whatever is being owned [17:22] I don't believe that's the case here [17:22] yes, true I'll make the changes you suggest. thanks. [17:22] ailo: go for it! i just dont want to deal with making or replacing or removing an old slide [17:23] holstein: It's a matter of clicking a button to disable it, so it really isn't a big issue. I'll make one, and let you see the results later [17:24] micahg, just one minor quibble with your logic now: scott is not a member of the testers team and yet we're arbitrarily setting him as the owner? [17:24] stochastic: owner isn't a member anymore in launchpad :) [17:25] stochastic: unless the team was created outside the scope of the project, I would think scott would have final say [17:25] * micahg doesn't know the background of the team [17:26] okay book keeping is done, scott is owner, howard is an admin [17:26] yes the team was created primarily to get more people involved in testing without forcing them to join the dev team (which can be a daunting and distracting team) [17:27] essentially a taskforce from the dev team with outside involvement [17:27] outside the dev team, but in the scope of the project, right? [17:27] i can do https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-r-public-relations as well... i just cant really look at it til december [17:29] holstein: Ah. Well, I'm sure the whole thing will grow a bit during the cycle. But, I was hoping you might be interested in creating and looking for news a bit [17:29] holstein: And keeping up with users through certain social channels, or whatever [17:30] ailo: i am! [17:30] Just seemed like something that might suit you somehow [17:30] i have 2 little trips in november after the theater show im doing [17:30] then i 'll be much more free [17:30] especially in january.. things slow down for me [17:31] micahg, yep [17:32] micahg, also I just noticed that astraljava is the owner of Ubuntu Studio, by your sound logic this should be thought about being passed over to scott-work? [17:32] stochastic: micahg: I think what we have in mind now is letting Howard take the lead on getting regular users to help with testing. Howard being the contact person to the dev team [17:32] yes :) [17:32] what comment was that a yes to? [17:33] mine or ailo's? [17:33] stochastic: yours [17:33] well, I guess both [17:33] ok [17:33] ailo, yes I agree with that assesment [17:34] as an administrator of the group howard should have all the power he requires to take care of that group [17:34] Ok, good. Then we got that one nailed down :) [17:43] I've sent an e-mail to scott and janne about switching the Ubuntu Studio team owner position [17:50] holstein: I ended up just adding one line to the first slide http://ubuntustudio.org/ [17:51] We should probably have a more user friendly release news posting with each release, I think [17:51] One with more pictures than words, if you know what I mean [17:51] i liked smartboys forum post [17:51] holstein: Did it have pics? [17:52] holstein: Looking at it [17:53] holstein: well, it's mostly a copy of the release notes. He just added his own begin and end [17:54] I don't mean we scrap release notes. Just that we have one less technical post, with much less content [17:57] I'll see about making one tomorrow.. [18:58] stochastic: Where am I the owner of? [19:02] Are you guys seriously going to be adding support for wubi this cycle? [19:03] stochastic: Also, I don't think I've received that email. Where did you send it to? [19:03] Nevermind, just found it. [19:11] scott-work: You seem to have two accounts on LP, which one should I use? [19:18] astraljava: wubi is a suggestion yes. What would talk against it? [19:21] I can't understand why you would want to use the hardware resources through a layer of Windows. [19:22] Surely that won't do good for latency? [19:22] Hmmm... ok, I may have been getting some of that wrong. [19:26] But it is still residing in a file on NTFS partition, so I have my doubts. [19:34] All the technicalities on the 'net seem to be rather outdated. Oh well, maybe it has matured past the issues and limitations. [19:43] it's not long ago xubuntu dropped wubi support because it only brought problems. [19:43] astraljava, how did the choir practice go? [19:48] Well, we have it under consideration, so someone should find out the good sides and the bad sides, and based on that, see if and how to support it [20:41] whats wubi? [20:46] len-dt, software that install ubuntu inside windows [20:47] :P no windows here to test that on. OK [20:47] don't tell me this hdmi cable is dead [20:47] :( [20:48] looks like it is [20:48] dang [20:53] I actually installed Ubuntu using wubi on my moms computer [20:53] She isn't bitten by the *nix yet [20:54] Likes her IE [20:54] the biggets problem with wubi is, imo, that once you want to go to a linux-only pc, you can't do that unless you reinstall [20:55] I see it as way to try Linux out [20:55] It's pretty easy to get rid of, for someone not that techincal [20:55] + no need to do any partitioning, etc [20:56] that's true, it's easy to install, but in the end, it's not easy to get completely away from windows [20:56] and that increases the possibility users will stick with windows [20:58] "if you want to use linux only, you will still need windows since you installed with wubi" doesn't sound too good to my ears [20:58] that isn't a very good product [20:59] It may be a "everyone else is using this why don't we have it too?" thing. [20:59] I don't see any political issues with it. It's a techincal possibility. If it works ok, I think it's worth supporting, if it's not too much of a hazzle [21:00] I'd leave it up to the user to decide in which way to install [21:00] Are their people with windows for testing this? [21:00] "i want more space for my linux files, how do i delete windows?" [21:00] "you can't, since you installed with wubi" [21:00] I have access at least, to a couple of machines [21:01] there's a less political side of it [21:01] knome: It's still up to the user. And it's up to us to explain what happens if you do this or that [21:02] ailo, sure, but the thing is, users usually won't ask. [21:02] ailo, those are just a few reasons why i dislike wubi [21:02] afaik, there has been some wubi-specific bugs too [21:03] I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to install with wubi. But, again, if someone wants it, and it's possible to implement, I don't see any problem with that. [21:03] yeah, aiui, it's just one checkbox to enable it [21:04] ailo, you want to contact evan dandrea (ev) about it [21:05] knome: Ok, thanks [21:05] np [21:22] doh, just got out of an afternoon of fixing problems and meetings [21:23] i'll read the backscroll at home [21:23] astraljava: i didn't know that i had two accounts, i was only aware of a single account [21:23]