[08:20] <rick_h_> morning party people
[08:20] <rick_h_> die doctests die
[11:59] <snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/10/26/open-metalcast-special-episode-halloween-2012/
[12:00] <snap-l> If you listen to nothing else, please at least listen to the intro. :)
[12:00] <rick_h_> .party
[12:18] <rick_h_> bah flaky internet coming on strong today
[12:19] <rick_h_> you'd think I was in a 3rd world country...or convention center
[12:33] <jrwren> pain is good, right?
[12:34] <rick_h_> tells you you're alive
[12:49] <snap-l> UDS proper hasn't started yet, has it?
[12:50] <rick_h_> no, next week
[12:50] <snap-l> That's when the network will really be tested. :)
[12:50] <rick_h_> sunday is meet/greet I think
[13:20] <jrwren> hey i think that is same week as MS Build
[13:20] <jrwren> coincidence? nope.
[13:21] <jrwren> MS is trying to distract people from UDS
[13:23] <rick_h_> sneaky sneaky
[13:25] <brousch> I think the overlap of people who care about MS and who care about UDS is small
[13:38] <snap-l> I think there's only 52 weeks of the year, and it's inevitable any two conferences may converge.
[13:39] <brousch> snap-l: Obviously we need to limit the world to 52 conferences
[13:53] <brousch> rick_h_: VirtualBox 4.2.2 is out. Hopefully it fixes your issues
[13:53] <rick_h_> brousch: oh would be cool
[13:53] <rick_h_> I ended up moving my work stuff back to a manual lxc due to those issues
[13:57] <rick_h_> bah, have to wait for it to get into the repos
[13:58] <brousch> Oracle has a repo for you
[13:58] <rick_h_> but but but...
[13:58] <brousch> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
[13:59] <rick_h_> I use the partner repos
[13:59] <brousch> You know you want it. Just let Oracle slip into your sources.list
[13:59] <brousch> What could possibly go wrong?
[13:59] <rick_h_> :P
[14:04] <jrwren> sphinx looks sweet. i may actually have to play with a contrived example
[14:04] <jrwren> stop using virtual box. use kvm and if you want ui, virt-manager :p
[14:04] <jrwren> virtualbox is from evil oracle. it wants to own you and hurt you.
[14:05] <snap-l> jrwren: and if you want video performance, you use Virtualbox, and swallow hard whenever you see it boot up.
[14:05] <brousch> I need to try kvm some day
[14:05] <brousch> I've only ever used vmware and virtualbox
[14:07] <jrwren> why would you want video performance? :)
[14:08] <rick_h_> unity
[14:08] <jrwren> wtf?
[14:08] <brousch> You owe me a new keyboard
[14:08] <jrwren> unity alone isn't an application.
[14:08] <jrwren> what is the use case for the VM for which you want video performance?
[14:09] <jrwren> server: obviously nonissue.   desktop: why run a desktop in VM?
[14:09] <jrwren> i'm honestly asking because I'm trying to understand the use case.
[14:09] <jrwren> I either can't see it, or i can't agree with the decision making :)
[14:09] <snap-l> jrwren: Windows on Linux, test desktop instances, honeypots
[14:10] <snap-l> Eclpse development that just disappears when you're done with it
[14:10] <jrwren> snap-l: for webdev?
[14:10] <snap-l> jrwren: For seeing what happens on a clean install
[14:10] <snap-l> or for browsing stuff that you know would get your machine into trouble.
[14:10] <jrwren> fair enough.
[14:11] <jrwren> i feel for 99% of those cases, kvm and unity2d would work for me, but others surely feel different.
[14:11] <brousch> unity2d is dead
[14:12] <snap-l> brousch: Nah, they just use the softwre rendering like they always did
[14:12] <brousch> Tell that to the guy last night with a 5 year old laptop that ran fine with 12.04 and runs like crap with 12.10
[14:13] <brousch> Might be older
[14:13] <snap-l> WHat video card?
[14:13] <jrwren> unity2d is dead? what does that mean?
[14:13] <snap-l> jrwren: No longer shipped with 12.10
[14:13] <jrwren> don't make me fire up testdrive to see what desktop does.
[14:13] <jrwren> well wtf does it do in testdrive?
[14:13] <snap-l> In Virtualbox it uses a software renderer
[14:14] <snap-l> at least with 12.04
[14:14] <jrwren> testdrive.
[14:14] <snap-l> What the hell is testdrive?
[14:14] <jrwren> O_O
[14:14] <jrwren> omg
[14:14] <jrwren> apt-get install testdrive
[14:14] <jrwren> https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[14:14] <snap-l> OK, that tells me it's a thing
[14:14] <snap-l> what does it do?
[14:15] <jrwren> 'TestDrive is a project that makes it very easy to download and run the latest daily Ubuntu development snapshot in a virtual machine.'
[14:15] <brousch> What VM?
[14:15] <jrwren> ' it can be configured to download and run any URL-access ISO in a virtual machine. But the primary goal is to provide a very simple method for allowing non-technical Ubuntu users to test and provide feedback on the current Ubuntu release under development.'
[14:15] <jrwren> it uses libvirt
[14:15] <jrwren> so kvm by default
[14:15] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm not sure what it does. I don't run KVM at the moment
[14:16] <jrwren> i'm firing it up right now.
[14:16] <jrwren> y'all have enraged me :)
[14:16] <snap-l> Must be a day ending in y,  then. :)
[14:16] <jrwren> getting 30MBit to cdimages :)
[14:18] <brousch> I will try this voodoo
[14:18] <brousch> I am getting 0.9MBit
[14:18] <brousch> lend me some bandwidth
[14:43] <snap-l> Has anyone listened to the beginning of the halloween episode?
[14:50] <brousch> I just downloaded it
[15:01] <brousch> snap-l: I can fix your unpritable PDF
[15:01] <snap-l> brousch: Oh, how so?
[15:01] <brousch> PDFSerenityNow
[15:02] <snap-l> Commercial?
[15:02] <brousch> No, my project to fix stupid PDFs for printing
[15:02] <brousch> https://sourceforge.net/p/pdfserenitynow/home/Home/
[15:02] <brousch> can pip install it
[15:03] <brousch> docs suck, but I can run it manually
[15:13] <snap-l> That's cool.
[15:13] <snap-l> Will check it out
[15:15] <snap-l> funny enough, I did convert, but to png
[15:22] <brousch> I go to TIFF because that's the preferred format for our plotter at work
[15:28] <snap-l> Also, Imagemagick has a k at the end of it. :)
[15:28] <snap-l> It makes it more majickal.
[15:30] <snap-l> like carrying your loose change in a crown royal bag tied to your belt, and saying "Forsooth" a lot.
[15:30] <rick_h_> lol
[15:32] <snap-l> I shalt render unto thine so-called "parking meter" the silver coins of the realm so that my chariot may rest comfortably whilst my companions and I partake of the fine food of this establishment.
[15:45] <_stink_> anyone else get bit by this urandom import bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-defaults/+bug/989856
[15:46] <_stink_> i saw it pop up on a 10.04 machine yesterday.
[15:46] <rick_h_> yea, I've hit that
[15:46] <rick_h_> I had to rebuild the venv
[15:47] <_stink_> any idea what happened?
[15:47] <_stink_> yeah, same here
[15:47] <_stink_> just went over the existing one
[15:47] <rick_h_> yea, no idea
[15:47] <_stink_> yikes
[15:52] <_stink_> yeah, started after upgrade from 2.6.5-1ubuntu6 to 2.6.5-1ubuntu6.1 for python2.6, libpython2.6 packages for me
[15:53] <_stink_> i had a pants crap moment there
[15:56] <snap-l> IS anyone else habing problems with Dropbox?
[15:57] <_stink_> looks like a fix from python 2.7.3 got backported to 10.04. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.7/+bug/954595
[16:11] <jrwren> wow, 12.10 boots fast
[16:22] <snap-l> btw: when dropbox goes down, it's is not a smart idea to think unlinking your computer might fix the problem.
[16:22] <snap-l> Now waiting for everything to sync up again
[16:28] <jrwren> ouch
[16:34] <snap-l> Love looking at the support forums
[16:34] <snap-l> I hope I never run into one of the guys on there, because frankly I want to kick his nuts into orbit
[16:34] <snap-l> "A lot of people look like they're switching to Google Drive, I think I will too. F U Dropbox. I hope Google runs you into the ground.
[16:35] <snap-l> Earlier: Andy Y.: No I am not able to access my files from my phone. And obviously, I wouldn't be attempting to use the website to access them if I was at my home computer.
[16:35] <snap-l> So again, IF I CANNOT ACCESS MY FILES IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES, I AM ABSOLUTELY CANCELING MY DROPBOX ACCOUNT TODAY AND SWITCHING TO ANOTHER ONLINE FILE STORAGE SERVICE. That's how important it is that I have them now.
[16:35] <snap-l> Because poor planning on your part is Dropbox's fault.
[16:37] <brousch> Those free account users can be harsh
[16:37] <snap-l> He's a pro user
[17:11] <jcastro_> it shouldn't redownload if you put it in the same spot
[17:11] <jcastro_> it will check each file though, and that can take a bit
[17:12] <snap-l> Yeah, it just had some fun syncing time
[17:12] <snap-l> but no, it didn't re-download
[17:12] <snap-l> That's U1's syncing tactic. ;)
[17:13] <brousch> ouch
[17:13] <greg-g> zing!
[17:13] <snap-l> it only hurts because it's true.
[17:14] <snap-l> though I still have a soft spot for U1
[17:14] <snap-l> I just rarely use it
[17:14] <greg-g> I'm going to be switching to git-annex for all of that
[17:16] <snap-l> Only reason I'm so big on Dropbox now is because todotxt on Android uses it for the backend
[17:16] <snap-l> so I can have my GTD stuff on my phone, and at work and such
[17:16] <snap-l> works really wekk
[17:16] <snap-l> well, even
[17:16] <greg-g> really weak? ;)
[17:17] <snap-l> Pthhppt
[17:17] <snap-l> I'd prefer it used git, but I don't forsee that happening any time soon.
[17:27] <brousch> gitting things done?
[17:27] <snap-l> har har
[17:28] <greg-g> wow, the internet isn't working too well here in North America today: http://internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm#graphs
[17:37] <dzho> wow.
[17:38] <greg-g> snap-l: git-annex is pretty sweet
[17:39] <greg-g> much better than SparkleShare (just smarter)
[17:39] <dzho> I funded a little of that, but haven't tried it.
[17:40] <dzho> it was sort of "oh, sure, I'll just throw some money at it because Joey Hess
[17:40] <greg-g> I'm not using the auto-sync stuff yet
[17:41] <greg-g> yeah, totally, he's legit
[17:41] <greg-g> I'm just using it to manage my Music and Video directories so far
[17:41] <dzho> well, d-i maintainer
[17:42] <dzho> I wish the Debian dunc tank experiment had gotten a better reception.
[17:44] <greg-g> yeah, it was interesting
[18:32] <snap-l> http://robin-d-laws.blogspot.com/2012/10/open-licensing-and-dramasystem-and.html#disqus_thread <-  greg-g
[18:34] <greg-g> YUCK!
[18:35] <greg-g> snap-l: that YUCK was for you
[18:35] <snap-l> Why?
[18:35] <greg-g> a mashup of two licenses, creating yet another incompatible share-alike?
[18:35] <greg-g> ef that
[18:35] <snap-l> Well, it we get something that's OGL
[18:35] <snap-l> s/it/or/
[18:35] <greg-g> he says a mashup of OGL and CC, not dual licensing (which is fine)
[18:36] <snap-l> Oh there's all sorts of IP kerfluffle in that thread
[18:36] <greg-g> dual license if you must to get around incompatibility issues (eg: OGL and CC:BY-SA), but making some unholy mashup of OGL+BY-SA legal code is NOT the right choice, and will fail
[18:37] <greg-g> license proliferation is bad, remember kids
[18:37] <snap-l> I've been trying to get around the FUD portion of the thread
[18:38] <snap-l> The "If I CC-BY-SA, that means my characters are now CC-BY-SA"
[18:39] <greg-g> right, games, especially board games, are a weird area in copyright law that I don't know enough about
[18:39] <greg-g> suffice to say: shit ain't clear cut.
[18:39] <snap-l> Well, and Hasbro's OGL is an interesting piece of work
[18:40] <snap-l> it straddles making text and mechanics available, while covering bits that are part of trademark and trade-dress copyright.
[18:41] <greg-g> just to be a jerk, trade dress is not copyright, a part of trademark ;)
[18:41] <snap-l> Yes, you are correct
[18:41] <greg-g> sorry :)
[18:41] <snap-l> but you'd think it were when people talk about "copyright" and look-and-feel bullshit
[18:42] <snap-l> and the OGL goes a long way to keep trademark part of copyright and licensing
[18:43] <greg-g> right, people and/or the law is confused
[18:45] <snap-l> Which means I can't call my in-game adversary a "Beholder", but I can have some fat orb that looks / sounds, and or feels like Beholder witht he serial numbers filed off
[18:45] <juped> hi.
[20:28] <brousch> Interesting http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/10/26/ubuntu-core-on-the-nexus-7/
[20:28] <brousch> They actually want to replace the OS instead of sit on it like LinuxOnAndroid
[20:29] <brousch> If the 7 had a SD card you could dual boot. Weak tablet.
[20:33] <juped> not necessarily.
[20:34] <juped> there's an adapter you can buy that's micro usb that turns it into a card reader.
[20:34] <juped> insert an SD card loaded with ubuntu.
[20:34] <juped> woila
[20:34] <brousch> Dongle? What is this, an Apple device?
[20:34] <rick_h_> hah
[20:34] <juped> My coworker showed me it yesterday on his 7 tablet.
[20:34] <juped> Only reason I know this.
[20:35] <brousch> They probably have a patent on "Usage of a dongle to do anything useful with device"
[20:35] <juped> heh yeah probably.
[20:35] <brousch> Mostly I'm just jealous of rick_h_ and his 7
[20:35] <jrwren> only the super nerds will want to do this.
[20:35] <brousch> His Nexus7, just to be perfectly clear about it
[20:35] <rick_h_> yea, several people have set it up
[20:36] <rick_h_> I need my netflix/audible/etc device too much to debug power issues
[20:36] <brousch> heh
[20:36] <brousch> Too bad you can't do a netboot or something
[20:36] <rick_h_> yea
[20:51] <brousch> or if you could use grub to pick linux or android
[20:54] <jrwren> you guys lied to me.
[20:55] <jrwren> i still have unity-2d-common pkg.
[20:55] <jrwren> its still there.
[20:55] <snap-l> UNder 12.10?
[20:55] <snap-l> also, is it selectable?
[20:55] <jrwren> yes
[20:55] <jrwren> i just got a pkg update for it
[20:55] <snap-l> WEll, maybe it's for 13.04 then
[20:56] <brousch> it's a fake
[20:56] <rick_h_> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/unity-2d-removed-from-ubuntu-12-10
[20:57] <brousch> I like how a Canonical employee links to the authoritative source
[20:57] <rick_h_> :P
[20:57] <rick_h_> google fu
[20:57] <jrwren> bah, empty package
[20:57] <jrwren> omgubuntu is auth source?
[20:58] <snap-l> They've gotten better about "fact checking"
[20:58] <snap-l> in that they'll at least ask Canonical about something. :)
[20:59] <jrwren> ha! cool.
[20:59] <brousch> Sorry, I forgot my </sarcastic> there
[20:59] <jrwren> uses software render via llvmpipe
[20:59] <jrwren> unity-2d-common was an effectively empty package (/usr/share/doc/ only) in quantal
[20:59] <jrwren> i removed it :)
[20:59] <snap-l> Yeah, Unity 2D was using llvmpipe too
[21:00] <snap-l> but using QT to do the heavy lifting
[21:00] <jrwren> oh
[23:29] <derekv> has anyone ever heard of some system to manage deployments of a group of apps
[23:29] <derekv> I'm looking for something where basically, I describe a bunch of different componants, say some databases and some middle and back end and some clients etc that all have interdependancies
[23:33] <derekv> then I describe a "deployment scenario", which might be something along the lines of "grab version 2.0.14 of the WAR for fooService, deploy it on a tomcat thats on the same machine as its database (which should be postgres with version schema version 2), deploy the AwesomeRubyRestService from git commit 2bbef59 in an apache on a different box, tie it all to the dev tier business database server at ww.xx.yy.zz, and run all the androi
[23:33] <derekv> and I click go
[23:34] <derekv> and it spins up vertual machines etc
[23:38] <derekv> i wonder if puppet does all this
[23:46] <derekv> I don't think there is anything that really does what I have in mind, I'm betting lots of stuff out there does parts of it