[00:10] <irc_FoxDie> hi
[00:29] <Azelphur> Anyone know if oracle java has an ARM build?
[00:31] <shauno> heh, you're funny.
[00:31] <shauno> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/downloads/javase/index.html
[00:31] <Azelphur> cool
[00:31] <Azelphur> so that gets me in browser java on arm?
[00:31]  * Azelphur grabs that :P
[00:31] <Azelphur> hmm, so many options
[00:32] <Azelphur> there's only one headful version, so I suppose that's the one I want?
[00:39] <shauno> haven't the foggiest I'm afraid
[00:39] <Azelphur> me either
[00:39] <Azelphur> maybe icedtea will work
[00:39] <shauno> however, 'headful' is a fun word that I may try to use again some time
[00:39] <Azelphur> xD
[00:42] <directhex> Azelphur: i don't think there's a java browser plugin for ARM
[00:43] <shauno> trying to buy ubercheap servers isn't fun.  appears intel have an aversion to stating which chips are EMT64 and which are actually x86_64
[00:43] <directhex> e.g. firefox doesn't properly support browser plugins on arm
[00:43] <directhex> shauno: er, what's the difference?
[00:43] <Azelphur> :<
[00:44] <shauno> I don't believe 64bit builds of ubuntu will run on a 6yo xeon that's emt64 but not amd64
[00:44] <directhex> i kinda got moonlight running on ARM by patching monlight to identify its browser API as "Unknown_Linux" rather than "Linux_i386_gcc34" or something like that
[00:45] <directhex> shauno: i think you're mistaken.
[00:45] <shauno> it's a possibility, especially if you ask my wife.  but I'm fairly averse to buying servers off ebay without knowing for sure
[00:47] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Older_implementations are all the differences
[00:47] <directhex> i really don't think ubuntu is built not to run on older em64t chips
[00:48] <directhex> and if you order tonight, you can get a new HP server for <£150. http://www.ebuyer.com/281915-hp-proliant-turion-ii-n40l-microserver-100-cashback-658553-421
[00:51] <shauno> yeah, I've been watching out for those.  they haven't run the cashback thing in the republic since december :/
[00:53] <shauno> oh no, looks like it ran in september too
[06:43] <bb15> Good morning!
[07:37] <dwatkins> ello
[08:11] <bootinfdsds> dwatkins,  Looks like they made it ! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone/
[08:20] <dwatkins> bootinfdsds: interesting
[08:22] <dwatkins> bootinfdsds: the little penguin under his TV looks exactly like the one given out to all SGI employees about 7 years ago, perhaps he used to work there.
[08:25] <dwatkins> What I don't understand about Kickstarter projects like this is why the larger manufacturers aren't already doing this sort of thing.
[08:42] <AlanBell> dwatkins: because they have the capital already
[08:42] <AlanBell> or can raise it conventionally
[08:42] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I mean that I don't know why the bigger manufacturers aren't making this kind of board ;)
[08:42] <AlanBell> oh, right :)
[08:43] <dwatkins> Sorry for being ambiguous.
[08:43] <AlanBell> heh, I was going to drift off into an economics lecture :)
[08:43] <dwatkins> We had snow yesterday in Doncaster, it's getting properly cold now.
[08:44] <dwatkins> I do enjoy hearing about economics. Someone pointed out the other day that Apple's prices being high means that people are reassured by them.
[08:44] <dwatkins> "reassuringly expensive" actually does sell
[08:44] <AlanBell> yes, it does
[08:47] <christel> i was pleased to see they made it and shall look forward to receiving my board!
[08:47] <christel> \o/
[08:48] <dwatkins> I'm tempted to get one, christel.
[08:48] <christel> :D
[08:49] <dwatkins> I didn't know there was an Ubuntu release for RISC.
[09:21] <ali1234> nobody is making a board like that because it is of limited use outside academia
[09:22] <ali1234> nobody else needs parallel computing just for the sake of it
[09:31] <ali1234> "45GHz CPU"
[09:31] <christel> i parsed board as beard \o/
[09:31] <ali1234> by their metric an i7 is 24 GHz
[09:32] <ali1234> so their 64 core version which doesn't exist yet is twice as good as an i7
[09:33] <ali1234> except that it isn't because their risc core is nowhere near as powerful as an x86, clock for clock.
[09:33] <ali1234> so basically if the question is "why is nobody making massively inefficient and point parallel computing devices" i think the answer is obvious
[09:36] <popey> morning all
[09:39] <directhex> ali1234: for once, we wholeheartedly agree!
[09:39] <ali1234> directhex: it's not the first time
[09:39] <directhex> it's a 2-core arm a9, with some crazy vector nonsense on the side. like my first cell for kids
[09:40] <ali1234> yep. great for teaching "how to write parallel software" but of little use in the real world, because real hardware is so much better
[09:40] <ali1234> dwatkins: the ubuntu OS that comes with it will only run on the ARM cores
[09:40] <directhex> not even useful for that, tbh
[09:40] <ali1234> maybe, maybe not
[09:41] <directhex> it's no use for teaching parallel programming, since it can't teach any of the parallel programming paradigms used in real-world scale-up architecture
[09:41] <ali1234> why not?
[09:41] <directhex> i.e. it's not openmp or mpi or opencl, therefore it's esoteric single-use nonsense
[09:41] <ali1234> they claim it supports openmp and mpi
[09:41] <directhex> pfft
[09:41] <directhex> i'll believe it when i see it
[09:41] <directhex> hint: i won't see it
[09:42] <popey> directhex, signed up for the valve beta?
[09:42] <directhex> popey: bien sur!
[09:42] <popey> http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
[09:42] <ali1234> maybe i misread it
[09:43] <ali1234> writing a opencl implementation for it should at least be possible and probably make a nice undergraduate thesis for someone
[09:43] <directhex> opencl i can see it doing
[09:43] <directhex> the architecture doesn't allow for openmp, and memory constraints make it kinda useless for nontrivial mpi
[09:43] <ali1234> though if you want opencl to play on, just get a GPU
[09:44] <directhex> but you'd learn more writing an mpi app on a multi-core linux desktop, using the shared memory back-end
[09:45] <directhex> the secret truth about parallel computing is you don't want 64 crap cores. you want 1 super powerful one. every time
[09:45] <directhex> if your app is 99% parallelizable and efficient, on 64 cores, that means 0.99^64 i.e. 52%
[09:46] <ali1234> yes. parallel computing is where you go when you've exceeded the limits of what you can do with 1 core.
[09:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:28] <andyc> This is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but does anyone know of any good deals on laptops at the moment that have good support for ubuntu?
[10:29] <andyc> I had heard that thinkpads generally run linux quite well but don't know whether this is still the case
[10:29] <andyc> I'm thinking in terms of ACPI support for suspend/hibernate specifically
[10:30] <andyc> (I'm assuming that network/sound are generally well supported but I've found that waking from suspend is something which my computer struggles with)
[10:56] <SuperMatt> installing windows 8. restart count: 3
[10:56] <SuperMatt> so far
[10:56] <SuperMatt> and this is just an inline install
[11:17] <bigcalm_laptop> Jello!
[11:18] <awilkins> Straw poll ; how many people have removed unity-lens-shopping ?
[11:18] <bashrc> yes
[11:19] <ahayzen> no
[11:19] <bigcalm_laptop> *GONG*
[11:19] <ahayzen> was i supposed to? lol ;)
[11:21] <awilkins> Not implying a right choice either way, just interested to know peoples opinion and their actions reflect that the best :-)
[11:21] <bigcalm_laptop> I had a quick look and wasn't happy how it worked. There didn't appear to be an 'easy' click here to disable
[11:21]  * bigcalm_laptop continues with xubuntu and ignorant bliss
[11:21] <bashrc> I think it can be dissabled within the privacy settings
[11:21] <bigcalm_laptop> It can, but that takes effort
[11:21] <ahayzen> doesn't that disable all data from the internet though?
[11:22] <bigcalm_laptop> Or, more effort
[11:22] <ahayzen> eg the U1 Music Store data source? or have i miss understood that button?
[11:23] <bigcalm_laptop> Off I pop
[11:25] <ali1234> i haven't installed 12.10 but if i had, i would remove it
[11:27] <ali1234> there wouldn't be any point in me having it installed anyway as I have uninstall unity because it depends on compiz-0.9 which conflicts with compiz
[11:30] <AlanBell> ahayzen: no, it doesn't disable all data from the internet
[11:30] <AlanBell> it is just a preference setting that lenses and scopes can decide whether or not to honour
[11:31] <ahayzen> AlanBell, ah i see thanks
[11:31] <AlanBell> it actually has almost nothing to do with whether results come from the internet or not
[11:31] <ahayzen> but it says 'Include online search results' :(
[11:32] <AlanBell> yeah, it lies
[11:32] <AlanBell> well, misleads
[11:32] <ahayzen> yeah
[11:32] <AlanBell> if you check it then some canonical produced lenses will s
[11:32] <bashrc> I thought the dash was a nice feature in 12.04, but then they went and messed it up in 12.10 with the amazon stuff
[11:32] <AlanBell> if you uncheck it then some canonical produced lenses will stop providing online search results
[11:33] <AlanBell> bashrc: that is nonsense, it had youtube stuff in 12.04
[11:33] <ahayzen> *some* ;)
[11:33] <ahayzen> not all then
[11:33] <bashrc> yes, but the youtube stuff didn't appear in the default search, it was within its own lens
[11:33] <AlanBell> ahayzen: well, all the default ones I think
[11:34] <ahayzen> awesome...but it should work as a kill switch for all lenses official or not
[11:34] <bashrc> I thought the youtube search was a good feature of 12.04
[11:34] <AlanBell> bashrc: true, and I don't like the way they have set the invisible property on the amazon lens
[11:35] <AlanBell> bashrc: yeah, it is a good feature, as is the amazon lens. Just the "OMG Amazon are getting our search queries!!11!" stuff isn't really news
[11:36] <bashrc> don't know if anyone has already seen this  http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
[11:36] <AlanBell> all lenses and scopes can listen to your global search queries and do evil stuff with them if they want
[11:36] <AlanBell> you can today write a scope/lens that displays *nothing* does not appear in the lens bar, does not present any results but listens to every query you type
[11:37] <bashrc> amazon in it's own lens would be fine, especially if specific lenses are uninstallable (I almost never use amazon)
[11:37] <AlanBell> and sends it off to an evil datawarehouse full of  "term" and "gedi" and "firef"
[11:37] <AlanBell> and that evil scope could do it's evil "gedi" harvesting irrespective of your choice in the privacy dialog
[11:38] <AlanBell> personally I think the non-functional privacy checkbox is the bad thing, the lens itself is fine
[11:39] <AlanBell> and I don't think lenses should be permitted to set visible=false and hide from the lens bar at the bottom of the dash
[11:39] <bashrc> didn't know that could happen
[11:39] <AlanBell> that is how the amazon lens doesn't show up there
[11:40] <bashrc> hidden lenses sending data to who knows where could be pretty bad - imagine what spammers would do with it
[11:40] <AlanBell> I was trying to find out what the relevant UDS session would be to raise these topics but I don't see a lens thing on the schedule yet
[11:41] <AlanBell> bashrc: well, I actually can't imagine what spammers would do with "gedi" and "ter"
[11:41] <AlanBell> but in principal I agree
[11:42] <AlanBell> personally I don't type high quality harvestable data into the global dash search
[11:42] <bashrc> with the possibility of there being more proprietary stuff on ubuntu in future - especially games - it's probably a good idea not to build in features which could allow the user to be tricked
[11:43] <AlanBell> would be interesting to find out if other people do . . . I could write a simple hidden lens to get some data on this . . .
[11:43] <AlanBell> argh, I just turned evil didn't I
[11:43] <bashrc> where's the black hat...
[11:43] <bashrc> any info cn be used as a crib
[11:44] <bashrc> or just for traffic analysis
[11:46] <bashrc> but anyway that kind of stuff is sufficiently proximal to personal files/documents that it's a potential security issue
[11:46] <bashrc> especially if I was using ubuntu in a business context
[11:48] <ali1234> i have yet to see a good explanation of how, if i am searching for a video on youtube, it is useful to me to have recipes, news articles, files from my hard disk, and products i can buy on amazon mixed into the search results randomly
[11:50] <bashrc> I suppose the Microsoft equivalent would be that anything you type into the windows explorer search box gets sent to Redmond by default.
[11:51] <ali1234> yeah
[11:51] <ali1234> or google desktop
[11:51] <ali1234> or chrome OS
[11:53] <awilkins> I think Google Desktop and ChromeOS probably did / do that
[11:53] <bashrc> yes, but I think chromeos is not much more than a kernel and a browser
[11:54] <awilkins> For similar reasons - Google want all your data with them
[11:55] <ali1234> the revenue Canonical earns from integrated amazon search results will be used to bring you more great features like integrated amazon search results
[11:55] <bashrc> heh
[11:55] <bashrc> but as a linux user I don't want to become the product
[11:55] <directhex> canonical needs revenue streams
[11:55] <bashrc> true, but there are better ways of doing it
[11:56] <ali1234> without that revenue great features like integrated amazon search results just wouldn't be possible
[11:56] <directhex> if you didn't hand over money for it, then you're the product. applies everywhere.
[11:56] <ahayzen> anyone know how much Canonical will be getting from including the amazon search results?
[11:59] <ali1234> http://xkcd.com/1021/ probably the most insightful cartoon xkcd man ever made
[11:59] <directhex> ahayzen: presumably they're just going to get affiliate money when people buy things from those results
[12:00] <ahayzen> directhex, yeah...but i wonder what cut they get
[12:01] <ali1234> the same cut as anyone
[12:01] <ahayzen> which is?
[12:01] <ali1234> which reminds me i need to make a ubuntu respin with my amazon affiliate account and then seed it on pirate bay
[12:02] <directhex> "up to 10%"
[12:02] <directhex> https://affiliate-program.amazon.co.uk/
[12:03] <ahayzen> directhex, thanks...will be interesting how much they get from this per release
[12:04] <directhex> a gorillion dollars!
[12:05] <ahayzen> him they could get quite a lot
[12:07] <ahayzen> say there are 5 million unity users (20 million Ubuntu users last time i check - say 25% on 12.10 and unity) .... then say that 10% of them spend £5 on amazon... if that revenue is from the total price and not the profit then Canonical would get £250,000!
[12:07] <ali1234> 10% is far too high
[12:08] <ahayzen> but then £5 is probably too low?
[12:08] <ali1234> not really
[12:08] <ahayzen> dunno was just putting random numbers in to see wht the outcome would be
[12:08] <ali1234> not enough to make up for 10% being two orers of magnitude too high
[12:09] <bashrc> and then what's the salary for canonical's staff?
[12:09] <ahayzen> well how many man hours does it take to create and run the servers that power the lens
[12:10] <bashrc> So ubuntu included a feature which only 0.1% of its users might actually use?
[12:11] <ali1234> when you look at who unity is actually used by, yeah pretty much
[12:11] <bashrc> :-)
[12:11] <ali1234> basically children, people who are scared of computers, and canonical employees
[12:12] <bashrc> that's a bit harsh
[12:12] <ali1234> children don't have disposable income. people who are afraid of computers are extremely afraid of online shopping
[12:12] <ali1234> harsh but true
[12:12] <ali1234> i forgot fanbois
[12:12] <bashrc> but if you notice in a lot of the YouTube tech reviews of distros they're usually running virtualbox within ubuntu with unity
[12:13] <ahayzen> so was it actually worth the hassle/backlash from implementing the feature for the small revenue gain they will get?
[12:13] <ali1234> if you notice a lot of those videos are done by 15 year old kids too
[12:14] <bashrc> not the ones I watch
[12:14] <ali1234> i wouldn't watch a review of a distro done in a virtual machine. i can do that myself.
[12:14] <ahayzen> i would have personally preferred them to have finished the spread design specification or Local Menus first
[12:18] <ali1234> yeah
[12:18] <ali1234> so i would estimate that perhaps 50% of ubuntu users are on unity
[12:19] <ali1234> of those maybe 25% are on 12.10
[12:19] <ali1234> that's 2.5 million
[12:19] <ali1234> assuming 20 million users is at all accurate
[12:31] <AlanBell> ali1234: the affiliate code isn't present in the desktop it is in products.ubuntu.com
[15:08] <alexcockell> Hi all...
[15:09] <alexcockell> Who's about - and who's got ITV1 tuned in?
[15:09] <christel> im about but i fear i am watching soccer saturday, whats on itv1? :)
[15:19] <SuperEngineer> boo!
[15:20] <alexcockell> A New Hope... Greedo's just had his nuts fried...
[15:21] <DJones> I just looked at the year of production for that, must admit, its 20 years younger than I thought, I thought it was more 1977, not 1997
[15:24] <Pendulum> A New Hope is 1977 originally (although I think it was originally just Star Wars). But Lucas made his CGI changes and re-released it as Star Wars: A New Hope in 1997
[15:24] <alexcockell> Yup - it's the SE version that's airing.
[15:25] <Pendulum> I don't know that it's possible to get ahold of the originals these days
[15:26] <Pendulum> (unless you know someone with them on VHS who can burn them to CD for you)
[15:28] <SuperEngineer> been trying out "other desktops" [gnome & cinnamon].  safely removed cinnamon via a ppa-purge - but it worries me removing gnome-desktop.
[15:28] <Pendulum> I don't mind the 97 versions. I'm not completely ballistic about the change he later made to part of the end of Return of the Jedi (after the movies I refuse to acknowledge were done), but I prefer the 97 or originals
[15:28] <SuperEngineer> is there a guarenteed safe way
[15:30] <SuperEngineer> [e.g. synaptic] I'm concerned that a removal might remove Unity / normal desktop stuff as well
[15:32] <alexcockell> Pendulum - they did see a DVD release in about 2000...
[15:32] <Pendulum> alexcockell: is that the one where they made the really controversial change? I remembered it being about 2004
[15:33] <Pendulum> (and I'd have expected it to be later than 2000)
[15:37] <DJones> I'm sure I've got a vhs video of the original hidden in a box under the stairs
[15:37] <Pendulum> yeah, it was with the 2004 box set that what I'd call the most controversial change happened to Return of the Jedi (it's the only change I really would prefer to revert to the original, I just didn't go ballistic the way a couple people I know who are Star Wars obsessed did)
[15:38] <Pendulum> most of the changes I can take or leave and there are a couple from the 97 SE that I think actually make the movies a bit better
[15:38] <alexcockell> Do you mean the "Wesa free!" line?
[15:38] <Pendulum> nope
[15:39] <alexcockell> Oh - I remember - 2004 - Hayden Photoshopped in?
[15:39] <Pendulum> yeah
[15:39] <Pendulum> that one
[15:39] <alexcockell> Didn't get that boxset.. I had the SE on VHS and the silver DVD boxset...
[15:41] <alexcockell> Oh - and had the two spools of highlights on Super 8 back in the day..
[15:41] <Pendulum> nice
[15:42]  * AlanBell goes to upgrade an Ubuntu Server CD
[15:42] <Pendulum> somewhere I have a burned version of the Christmas Special, but I don't know if I've ever tried to actually play it
[15:42] <alexcockell> I streamed it off Youtube... All I could say is OUCH.
[15:43] <alexcockell> Oh - no - was he Nostalgia Critic review.
[15:43] <Pendulum> yeah, it was more I was getting it because it was cheap on ebay and to just say I had it for the looks on people's faces ;)
[15:51] <SuperEngineer> oh well, I'll take that as a no then [rule 1: without knowledge of outcome... don't do]
[15:52] <alexcockell> re the Super 8 spools - as I was only 7-8, Dad spliced them into the correct sequence...
[15:57] <bittin> X
[16:02] <alexcockell> Hiya Bittin..
[16:02] <bittin> Hiya alan_g
[16:02] <bittin> alexcockell even
[17:12] <penguin42> heck, nPower's apparent 9% price rise is actually 19% for me
[17:17] <mattt> penguin42: i'm scared
[17:17] <mattt> early drop in temperatures + significant energy price rises won't bode well for a lot of people
[17:19] <penguin42> mattt: I switched to this when my previous fixed gas scheme finished only a month or so ago, there were no fixed ones available, so I went for the cheapest unfixed, and reckoned if it went up by 10% it would still be reasonalbe; what thjey've done is put the supposed average up 9.2% but massively changed the balance between standing rate/unit; this one was good for me precisely because it was a high standing rate
[17:22] <shauno> tihs is curious.  'screen' seems to have exploded on me overnight.  and I can't figure out why.  after running fine for 200+ days, it's now nagging me constantly.  (and it's survived a reboot)
[17:22] <penguin42> nagging?
[17:23] <shauno> I keep getting messages across the bottom row, complaining about trying to attach to a bad pid, or /dev/pts/3 not existing
[17:23] <shauno> which is getting annoying because I can't type until they're gone
[17:24] <penguin42> is /dev/pts/3 there?
[17:25] <shauno> it's not.  it's complained about 4 and 5 too, which are also not there.  but I'm not sure what's changed
[17:25] <penguin42> that's....odd
[17:25] <shauno> I'm on lucid, so the list of what's changed lately is incredibly small
[17:26] <penguin42> sounds like a job for strace
[17:27] <shauno> waiting for it to do it again so I can snag them.  but I haven't spotted rhyme nor reason yet, so no idea how long I'll be waiting
[17:29] <shauno> Attach attempt with bad pid(16312)!
[17:30] <shauno> This is the one that's perplexing.  I have no idea where it's getting this number from  (I rebooted recently, and am only up to pid 4500-ish)
[17:30] <penguin42> is pid ordering still deterministic these days?
[17:31] <shauno> they look fairly sequential looking at the contents of /proc
[17:31] <shauno> (I'm not sure if 10.04 counts as 'these days')
[17:34] <penguin42> shauno: Have you got multiuser mode enabled? There are a few people saying they got stuff like that with it on
[17:35] <shauno> not that I know of.  all I have in my screenrc is 'defutf8 on'
[17:37] <penguin42> shauno: looking through the screen source there is a lot of debug that can be turned on in the attacher.c code
[17:38] <penguin42> shauno: My best guess is that something is poking the socket in /tmp for some reason
[17:39] <shauno> it does seem something else is actually trying to attach.  I just got kicked out of the help screen because my window geometry changed  (mine didn't)
[17:40] <Darael> check ps for other running copies of screen that might be trying to attach?
[17:40] <shauno> ah, I have 3 copies of autossh running on my laptop.  that won't help.  ugh.
[17:43] <penguin42> autossh?
[17:43] <shauno> it's meant to sit in the background and try to relaunch ssh whenever it drops, because I use it for tunnels more than anything else
[17:44] <penguin42> how does that interact with screen?
[17:44] <shauno> but there really shouldn't be multiple copies running.  just killed them all of
[17:44] <shauno> screen's in my .bashrc
[17:45] <shauno> because I'm incredibly lazy :)  (although it does check to see if TERM is set to xterm first, else scp tries to attach screen, and life gets miserable)
[17:47] <penguin42> but why does it attaching break?
[17:49] <shauno> I'm not sure.  I still can't figure out where those pids came from either
[17:50] <shauno> no messages since I killed them and restarted it though.  very strange.  that's ticked away quite happily for years
[17:52] <penguin42> shauno: Almost though the stream of data on the socket got out of sync
[17:53] <shauno> most of these things work so well that I completely forget they're there, and just trust that when I hit my hotkey, screen is there waiting for me
[17:53] <penguin42> yeh, things you set up n years ago, forget about, forget how you set them up, until they break
[17:54] <shauno> and then when you see what's happening, you wonder who on earth bodged this all together in the first place
[17:54] <penguin42> haha yes :-)
[18:46] <ahayzen> Hi, having an issue with apt saying that an application depends on 'libglew1.6 (>= 1.6.0) but it is not installable'...but i have libglew1.8 installed...anyone know a way to tell apt to ignore the error or a workaround? Thanks Andy
[18:47] <AlanBell> ahayzen: what application?
[18:47] <ahayzen> AlanBell, trying to install vdrift from playdeb repo ;)
[18:47] <AlanBell> ahayzen: you should be able to install libglew1.6 that is a separate package
[18:48] <AlanBell> libglew1.8 is a different package to libglew1.6, it isn't a higher version number of the same thing
[18:48] <ahayzen> AlanBell, it doesn't appear in apt though?
[18:48] <AlanBell> as far as apt is concerned
[18:48] <AlanBell> !info libglew1.6
[18:48] <ahayzen> and it says it was removed here ... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/amd64/libglew1.6
[18:49] <Darael> Wait, playdeb works?  How long has that been the case?  For months, getdeb and playdeb were both giving me 403s.
[18:49] <AlanBell> hmm, I appear to have it installed
[18:49] <ahayzen> i've done a clean install of 12.10 x64
[18:49] <AlanBell> I suspect you may be out of luck until the playdeb package gets fixed
[18:50] <AlanBell> maybe talk to cjwatson who removed it
[18:50] <AlanBell> he is in #ubuntu-motu
[18:50] <ahayzen> ok...may try compiling it again see if i can get round the odd permission errors i had last time....thanks
[18:50] <ahayzen> AlanBell, thanks
[19:37] <ahayzen> AlanBell, my bad, just realised that the software source says 'precise-getdeb' changed it to 'quantal-getdeb' seems to be installing something now ;)
[20:57] <czajkowski> evening
[20:58] <Laney> grargh
[20:58] <Laney> so not looking forward to the early start tomorrow
[21:01] <czajkowski> Laney: how bad is your start?
[21:01] <czajkowski> also dont forget clocks change
[21:02] <Laney> first train 0744
[21:02] <penguin42> ouch
[21:02] <czajkowski> oh nasty
[21:02] <czajkowski> I'll be awake but still
[21:02] <Laney> it takes twice as long to get to the airport than it does to get from there to cph
[21:03] <Laney> clocks back is a shitter indeed
[21:03] <Laney> i think i might not be very fun tomorrow night :P
[21:04] <penguin42> isn't that good for you? It means it's really 844 in todays clocks?
[21:04] <Laney> oh wait, it's an extra hour this time isn't it
[21:04] <Laney> spring forward, fall back
[21:05]  * czajkowski kicks Laney speak english! no such thing as all 
[21:05] <czajkowski> *fall
[21:06] <dwatkins> "autumn back" isn't quite as memorable, though
[21:06] <Darael> Can we promote "autumn" as a verb synonymous to "fall", just to confuse Merkians?
[21:06]  * dwatkins autumns over
[21:07] <AlanBell> apparently they are starting to call it autumn
[21:07] <AlanBell> because fall is a silly name for it
[21:07] <dwatkins> agreed, AlanBell
[21:07] <AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19929249
[21:07] <Laney> yeah, the alternative doesn't help me remember :-)
[21:08]  * AlanBell would like the Americans to adopt the phrase "chuffed to bits"
[21:08] <czajkowski> it is a silly name
[21:08]  * Darael imagines it in an American accent, and shudders.
[21:09] <czajkowski> fall y'all
[21:09] <czajkowski> bah
[21:09] <dwatkins> I can think of a few english slang phrases that would raise an eyebrow in the US, due to the double meaning of certain words.
[21:09] <dwatkins> e.g. to steal a cigarette, in the colloquial form
[21:09] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a good one
[21:10] <Darael> I'd have translated that one as "beg" rather than "steal", but...
[21:10] <Darael> Point stands.
[21:11] <dwatkins> yeah, Darael - I used to say 'can I steal one...?' when I meant that.
[21:12] <Darael> dwatkins: That was my guess.  I do that too.  Just thinking that if we're trying to avoid colloquialisms to make meaning explicit, "beg" is probably better.
[21:12]  * dwatkins is watching XP being installed, a painful process on a good day but this machine has some kind of hardware problem or driver issues
[21:12] <dwatkins> indeed, Darael :)
[21:12] <dwatkins> I suggested they use Linux, but the kid's going to be playing games - I can't wait for Steam to be available with many games for Linux too
[21:12] <Darael> Well, except I don't do that with cigarettes.  But in analogous situations.
[21:13]  * dwatkins gave up stealing them
[21:13] <Laney> czajkowski: help me think what i've forgotten to pack
[21:13] <dwatkins> I've gone on holiday without my passport before.
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: tea bags
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: adaptor
[21:15] <czajkowski> Laney: gaffa tape!
[21:15] <Laney> hmm, tea, intriguing
[21:15] <Laney> i can't find my adaptors :(
[21:15] <AlanBell> dwatkins: I got through security at Heathrow on theopensourcerer's passport once
[21:15] <Laney> I swear every trip I buy a new one
[21:15] <dwatkins> AlanBell: I assume you look rather different ;)
[21:16] <Darael> dwatkins, AlanBell: I've flown on a railcard before.
[21:18] <AlanBell> dwatkins: most people don't mix us up
[21:18] <dwatkins> Darael: I did consider trying to fly with my driving license as ID.
[21:18] <dwatkins> Actually, it was the chunnel, not a flight.
[21:18] <Darael> dwatkins: Well, for domestic flights they'll take just about anything.
[21:19] <Darael> EU ones are slightly more stringent, but a DL might be enough.
[21:19] <dwatkins> yeah, I suspected they might not mind me not actually having a passport as I was staying within Europe, but didn't want to chance it, so rushed home and picked up my passport - got the train in the end, too.
[21:20] <Laney> I forgot to put GY!BE on my phone!
[21:20] <Laney> criminal
[21:20] <dwatkins> Canadian post-rock?
[21:21] <Laney> something like that
[21:21] <Laney> I Find it accompanies travelling very well
[21:25] <czajkowski> Laney: jumper scarf glovs and a hat
[21:27] <Laney> yeah got that
[21:27] <AlanBell> Laney: something to wear for the Gangnam Style flash mob on Tuesday
[21:27] <Laney> O_O
[21:27] <czajkowski> :o
[21:59] <cocoa117> how do u make ubuntu go to sleep when idled?
[22:01] <AlanBell> cocoa117: click on the battery in the top panel and go to power settings...
[22:01] <AlanBell> then you can set different timeouts for battery/AC power
[22:01] <mattt> evening all
[22:02] <cocoa117> AlanBell, what about a desktop computer?
[22:02] <AlanBell> oh, them! same thing but in the system settings area
[22:02] <cocoa117> AlanBell, can this be done on a server system?
[22:03] <AlanBell> erm, maybe, there was some work done on server suspend
[22:03] <AlanBell> and the metal as a service stuff might use it
[22:03] <czajkowski> right thats the heathrow express booked
[22:04] <AlanBell> off tomorrow czajkowski?
[22:04] <czajkowski> yarp
[23:53] <dubac0> hello
[23:54] <Darael> Good... morning.
[23:54] <dubac0> oh=?
[23:54] <Darael> Clocks don't go back for an hour.  It's five to one.
[23:55] <dubac0> and will be for an hour?
[23:55] <dubac0> kan haz time travel
[23:55] <dubac0> :P
[23:57] <Darael> Well, it's two to one now.
[23:57] <Darael> And in an hour and two minutes, it will be one again.
[23:59] <penguin42> time itself will be reversed
[23:59] <dubac0> Darael, 15