[06:39] <knome> ochosi, mr_pouit: would you be able to join us if we did an informal meeting earlier or later?
[06:40] <knome> i hope our scheduled time slot is fine for micah.
[06:44] <knome> i would be okay with setting up an informal meeting at 10 CET
[08:38] <ochosi> knome: yes, that would work for me. later wouldn't
[08:39] <knome> pleia2, you have a session for the next time slot?
[08:39] <pleia2> knome: no, but I need to spend at least half of it prepping for my lightning talk
[08:39] <knome> pleia2, maybe you could use the other half for discussing the artwork/marketingish stuff
[08:40] <pleia2> sure, meet somewhere at 10:30?
[08:40] <knome> at the tables we were hacking on the plenary talk?
[08:40] <knome> i think i'm just going to skip the next sessions so i'll just sit around there
[08:41] <pleia2> sure
[08:41] <knome> i need something to make me less dehydrated
[08:42] <ochosi> ok, so 10.30 - 11.00?
[08:42] <knome> ochosi, yeah
[08:42] <ochosi> k, worksforme
[08:42] <knome> ochosi, i'll be around from 10 in irc too
[08:42] <knome> i'm not sure if a google hangout is doable, but maybe we can just chat in irc
[08:42] <ochosi> thunar1.5.1 and xfsettings4.11.0 are ready in mr_pouit's ppa
[08:43] <knome> aha, great
[08:44] <ochosi> you should test it
[08:44] <ochosi> thunar is lightning fast again
[08:44] <ochosi> i mean really: like it was before the port to gio :}
[08:44] <knome> i think i'll leave that for home
[09:34] <ochosi>  /begin-unofficial-meeting
[09:34] <knome> lol
[09:34] <knome> so, is there something specific you want to discuss?
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, in fact the disc-size problem
[09:35] <knome> yep
[09:35] <ochosi> because it affects much of what we wanna do with artwork
[09:35] <knome> micah would be useful here
[09:35] <ochosi> yeah, true
[09:35] <ochosi> but you can later argue that with him :)
[09:36] <knome> lol
[09:36] <ochosi> so, point is
[09:36] <micahg_mobile> Well,I was thinking to look and see of we can port to python3
[09:36] <ochosi> nice
[09:37] <ochosi> if we want new/more artwork (dark themes, wallpapers), we need more space on the disc
[09:37] <knome> that would definitely be nice
[09:37] <ochosi> in fact our icon-theme will most likely need more space in 13.04
[09:37] <ochosi> because we'll implement a script by NSchermer to convert it to png
[09:37] <satya164> themes are in kbs
[09:37] <ochosi> which makes it faster
[09:37] <satya164> wallpapers need a lot of space
[09:37] <ochosi> satya164: for dark themes, we need icon-themes that work with them
[09:38] <satya164> and we need wallpapers in different resolutions too
[09:38] <zequence> How about a post install task, to add stuff that was not absolutely needed for a networkless install, but would be nice to have?
[09:38] <ochosi> so that's something that goes hand-in-hand for me
[09:38] <zequence> ..at first login
[09:38] <satya164> ochosi: rigt!
[09:38] <ochosi> zequence: yeah, that's one option
[09:38] <satya164> right
[09:38] <ochosi> but doing post-install scripts is a nice source for bugs
[09:38] <knome> yeah
[09:38] <zequence> I've seen Ubuntu sometimes does that to add some language files
[09:39] <knome> satya164, we don't need wallpaper for different sizes
[09:39] <knome> satya164, just shipping one big one is good
[09:39] <satya164> there are monitors of diff sizes, so...
[09:39] <ochosi> yeah, but ideally xfdesktop will take care of that
[09:39] <knome> yes.
[09:39] <satya164> yeah right, only if it is a simple one
[09:39] <ochosi> we can test how they look in diff res before
[09:39] <micahg_mobile> We can also evaluate the default list of Xfce components to see if we want to ship them all
[09:39] <ochosi> so it's not that problematic
[09:39] <satya164> wallpapers will text will look odd if scaled
[09:40] <satya164> ok
[09:40] <ochosi> micahg_mobile: is there anything you're thinking of right now?
[09:40] <knome> i would like to do a complete check of the xubuntu ISO  seed this cycle
[09:40] <micahg_mobile> No
[09:40] <ochosi> hmm
[09:40] <ochosi> i can only think of panel-plugins
[09:40] <ochosi> but those are too small to matter
[09:40] <knome> i mean, just go through it item by item and see if we need those
[09:40] <micahg_mobile> Yes
[09:40] <ochosi> what would be nice:
[09:41] <ochosi> a list of our core components incl size on disc
[09:41] <knome> right
[09:41] <ochosi> just for everyone to be able to discuss on the same basis
[09:41] <knome> with all dependencies or by package?
[09:41] <ochosi> otherwise it's random finger-pointing at components that are supposedly heavy
[09:41] <knome> i mean, when dependencies overlap...
[09:42] <ochosi> yeah, that's hard to say
[09:42] <ochosi> looking at you, mozilla
[09:42] <pleia2> hehe
[09:42] <ochosi> prolly ff and tb should be treated as one
[09:42] <ochosi> getting rid of just one of them doesn't make too much sense anyway
[09:42] <knome> unless somebody wants to do something like a virtual ISO size calculator
[09:42] <knome> bluesabre, just sayin'!
[09:42] <knome> it shouldn't be that hard
[09:43] <ochosi> how much do we save by dropping python2
[09:43] <knome> a few whales
[09:44] <satya164> whales?
[09:44] <knome> j/k
[09:44] <ochosi> ok, that's what i meant by: we need numbers! :)
[09:44] <pleia2> I asked how big a whale was, knome motioned "big" with his hands
[09:44] <ochosi> haha
[09:45] <knome> well the problem in Q was gtk2/3 and python 2/3, so it can't be like 2MB only
[09:45] <ochosi> also
[09:45] <knome> have fun calculating the dependencies :]
[09:45] <ochosi> what about the apps we dropped this time?
[09:45] <ochosi> gimp, ...
[09:45] <pleia2> yay, micahg is here
[09:45] <ochosi> are we going to bring them back immediately?
[09:45] <ochosi> anyway, for me it's important to know so that i know what to invest my time in, artwork-wise
[09:46] <satya164> so there is not a page containing all specifications for ringtail?
[09:46] <ochosi> i can also try to come up with numbers on my end, btw
[09:46] <bluesabre> I think it's time to pick up shotwell and replace gthumb and ristretto
[09:46] <bluesabre> ;)
[09:46] <pleia2> satya164: the specs are what we're defining right now :)
[09:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: isn't shotwell a bit heavy for simple viewing? (agreed that for browsing/organising it's great)
[09:47] <bluesabre> it has a lightweight viewer that comes with it
[09:47] <pleia2> it's not even good for simple viewing
[09:47] <ochosi> a-ha
[09:47] <ochosi> didnt know there was a simple viewer
[09:48] <satya164> pleia2: I mean we need to have an index in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Raring/
[09:48] <pleia2> micahg says shotwell is too heavy, that's why ubuntu kept eog
[09:48] <knome> we should keep ristretto
[09:49] <knome> satya164, that's why we are here, to build the roadmap
[09:49] <satya164> knome: ok
[09:49] <smartboyhw> Hi knome pleia2 
[09:50] <bluesabre> ok, no shotwell, but here is that viewer :) http://imagebin.org/234154
[09:50]  * smartboyhw thinks he can remotely come to the Xubuntu planning session now:P
[09:50] <ochosi> hm, so a quick question round for you guys:
[09:50] <pleia2> bluesabre: how is that launched?
[09:51] <ochosi> 1) is everyone happy with our default icon theme? (looking at faenza mostly as alternative)
[09:51] <bluesabre> pleia2: It can be set as the default viewer, and it's available from the right-click menu on an image
[09:51] <ochosi> 2) do we want to have more gtk-themes installed by default?
[09:51] <pleia2> I think images need to be added to the shotwell album and all that, shotwell is crazy slow on my netbook so I can't really use it for quick opening of images
[09:51] <knome> ochosi, we just dropped some!
[09:51] <bluesabre> ah
[09:51] <ochosi> knome: yes, because they were unmaintained
[09:52] <satya164> ochosi: the current one matches more with Greybird
[09:52] <ochosi> i'm talking about getting ones that are maintained and have perfect gtk2/3
[09:52] <bluesabre> I've had issues in the past with ristretto failing out on some images (especially svg)
[09:52] <knome> are there such?
[09:52] <ochosi> yes
[09:52] <ochosi> even satya has a few we might think about
[09:52] <bluesabre> and gthumb is just an image browser, not really a image library manager
[09:52] <ochosi> bluesabre: yes, that's a known issue
[09:53] <knome> bluesabre, report a bug
[09:53] <ochosi> gthumb is mainly there for browsing camera's that use libgphoto (or what it's called)
[09:53] <pleia2> micahg says we should fix ristretto to support svg :)
[09:53] <astraljava> Do we need to _have_ an image library manager by default?
[09:53] <ochosi> actually i think we don't
[09:53] <ochosi> but as i said
[09:53] <bluesabre> no, not really
[09:53] <ochosi> the reason isn't image-library management
[09:53] <ochosi> it's support for cameras
[09:53] <pleia2> I don't use it
[09:54] <ochosi> so if we can all agree that's not functionality that we need _by default_, it'll be easy to drop it
[09:54] <ochosi> (i also don't use it, i don't even know anyone who has a camera that needs that)
[09:55] <astraljava> Hmm... I always rather copy the images from the mem cards to HDD before looking at them, so I guess this discussion isn't what I'm looking for (/me makes jedi gestures)
[09:55] <satya164> knome: I propose to include http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Evolve-GTK3-Theme-264780816 and http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701
[09:55] <satya164> though http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Cream-GTK3-Theme-334006701 is a work in progress
[09:55] <ochosi> astraljava: even browsing them on sd cards works with ristretto. it's just about importing fotos via some canon-format or smthg like that
[09:56] <satya164> ochosi: even if I had a camera, i will just copy the iimages to hdd
[09:56] <ochosi> yes, but for copying you need something that supports libgphoto!!! :)
[09:56] <satya164> may be professional photographers need that
[09:56] <bluesabre> ochosi: for anything like that, you'd need ufraw
[09:56] <ochosi> that's what gthumb is good for
[09:57] <astraljava> ochosi: You do? Aren't the SD cards just some vfat filesystem?
[09:57] <ochosi> arrrr, it's for cameras that don't get mounted as mass-storage device and that for ppl who at the same time don't have a cardreader
[09:57] <astraljava> Right.
[09:57] <satya164> ochosi: oh... didn't know
[09:57] <astraljava> Well, they can always install additional apps, IMNSHO. :)
[09:57] <ochosi> but i'm all for dropping gthumb, it just has to be for the right reasons
[09:58] <satya164> ochosi: we cannot support evrything!
[09:58] <ochosi> yeah, i agree! :)
[09:58] <ochosi> and as i said, let's drop it
[09:58] <ochosi> ok, so any more voices on the themes satya164 proposed?`(i'm for them btw)
[09:59] <ochosi> and general opinions about getting more themes that work?
[09:59] <ochosi> (currently: blackbird, bluebird, greybird, albatross)
[09:59] <ochosi> note: they're all blue
[09:59] <bluesabre> evolve looks really similar to greybird
[10:00] <ochosi> that's true
[10:00] <ochosi> satya164: what about orion btw?
[10:00] <bluesabre> gotta go, bbl :)
[10:00] <ochosi> bluesabre: hf!
[10:01] <satya164> bluesabre: tru
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: haven't updated Orion
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: will try to do it within a week
[10:01] <satya164> ochosi: Orion already has a xfwm theme
[10:01] <ochosi> yeah, no rush
[10:01] <ochosi> target is 13.04 ;)
[10:02] <ochosi> do you have a link to orion?
[10:02] <satya164> ochosi: yeah, but I'm already flooded with comments and emails asking about update
[10:03] <ochosi> k
[10:03] <satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/gallery/33387415
[10:03] <satya164> ochosi: my ppa status says, Orion is the most popular theme by me
[10:03] <satya164> http://satya164.deviantart.com/art/Orion-GTK3-Theme-281431756?q=gallery%3Asatya164%2F33387415&qo=6
[10:04] <ochosi> mhm
[10:04] <ochosi> i mean the colorscheme is again very close to greybird
[10:04] <satya164> ochosi: it's a lot lighter
[10:04] <ochosi> yeah, that's true
[10:05] <satya164> ochosi: I can change it if you prefer
[10:05] <ochosi> yeah we can discuss it during the cycle
[10:05] <satya164> ochosi: I'll do it while porting
[10:05] <ochosi> it's just about the highlight.color
[10:05] <ochosi> the rest isn't too similar
[10:06] <satya164> ochosi: yeah. we can perhaps use purple?
[10:06] <Unit193> Heh, you like "action" buttons (title buttons) on the left.
[10:06] <satya164> Unit193: I'm accustomed to it
[10:07] <ochosi> yeah, purple would work well i guess
[10:07] <satya164> as menus and most thing are in left, I don't have to travel to far right
[10:07] <ochosi> i don't use window-buttons very much
[10:07] <ochosi> i'm more a kb-guy
[10:07] <satya164> :)
[10:07] <ochosi> anyway, ppl can easily change the layout of that in xfce
[10:07] <satya164> ok. I'm gotta go
[10:08] <ochosi> yeah, in fact me too
[10:08] <satya164> have to go to arrange sponsorship for my college seminar
[10:08] <ochosi> have fun you UDS people, even though you're all zoned-out now it seems!
[10:08] <ochosi> satya164: ok good luck!
[10:08] <satya164> :)
[10:08] <satya164> bye
[10:08] <satya164> thanks
[10:08] <knome> heh yeah
[10:08] <knome> sorry
[10:09] <Unit193> ochosi: I think they are generally zoned out.
[10:11] <knome> true.
[10:13]  * astraljava doesn't like zones
[10:14] <ochosi> ok, i'm off
[10:14] <ochosi> have fun everyone and talk to you later
[10:14] <knome> see you
[10:58] <smartboyhw> Gee session starting in 1 minute
[17:18] <pleia2> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
[17:18] <pleia2> These are distributions of Ubuntu/Xubuntu Linux modified to work on the Joggler by Jools Wills (buzz [at] exotica.org.uk).
[17:21] <GridCube> oh that looks nice
[17:22] <GridCube> i wonder if that would work on my netbook :P
[17:22] <ashNOP> hi, i have one problem, when run own compiled xfwm4 get this error: (xfwm4:5202): xfwm4-WARNING **: Missing defaults file. Can i fix it?
[18:18] <ochosi> hi everyone
[18:18] <ochosi> how did today's xubuntu-session go?
[18:19] <elfy> I think it went ok ochosi 
[18:19] <Unit193> I ended up staying up for it after all.
[18:20] <ochosi> any decisions?
[18:20] <Unit193> Yes, you have 5 work items.
[18:20] <ochosi> woot?
[18:21] <elfy> ochosi: 5 work items - each being a sub set of 10 other items
[18:21] <elfy> :)
[18:21] <ochosi> haha
[18:21] <ochosi> nice
[18:21] <ochosi> no, in all seriousness, is there a transcript or a summary?
[18:21] <elfy> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-r/meeting/21409/xubuntu-general-planning-for-r/
[18:21] <elfy> not sure if there was anything else in other sessions  - that's the only one I got to 
[18:22] <Unit193> The etherpad, there is a summery link in that, and audio may have been recorded?
[18:23] <ochosi> mm, seems fine
[18:23] <elfy> I think the audio will turn up eventually - that's if it's like last one 
[18:32] <GridCube> Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again.
[18:32] <GridCube> :(
[21:52] <pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8145973750/
[21:52] <pleia2> haz party :)
[21:54] <ochosi> nice