[03:06] <bootlkjgf> looks like bedsie ....
[03:18] <bootlkjgf> http://goo.gl/yFOzQ
[06:37] <kaushal> Hi
[06:38] <kaushal> Does Ubuntu 11.10 support 4G LTE USB Modem MF880T?
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: what happened when you plugged it in?
[06:38] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: sure
[06:39] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2061426 ?
[06:39] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: it links to a thread on how to fix it if it doesn't work out of the box
[06:40] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: I just googled "MF880T" and "Ubuntu", first hit
[06:43] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
[06:45] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: usb-devices does show the details
[06:46] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: shall i pastebin the output of usb-devices
[06:48] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: just follow that forum thread
[06:48] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: it explains all
[06:48] <kaushal> ok
[06:51] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: but i dont see it being seen in my NM Applet?
[06:51] <kaushal> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1328442/
[06:53] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: let me try some few more steps
[09:05] <kvarley> ali1234: Turns out on another page of the BIOS I was able to disable Secure Boot all together and change the boot devices mode to accept another type of device other than UEFI compatible ones
[09:18] <popey> Morning
[09:27] <danfish> morning. Sunny, bright and cold here. Rather nice :)
[09:34] <danfish> time to get the wife's tender plants under shelter and  under the watch of my viglen mpc controlled plant watcher (need a better name for it)
[09:34] <danfish> yes, I'm still using an mpc!
[09:41] <daubers> danfish: Mine constantly thermal shutdowns :(
[09:41] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
[09:42] <danfish> daubers: then stop trying to play HD movies with it ;)
[09:42] <danfish> morning brobostigon
[09:42] <brobostigon> morning danfish
[10:09] <Seeker`> morning
[10:10] <AlanBell> morning
[10:11] <brobostigon> morning Seeker` and AlanBell
[10:11] <AlanBell> cold pizza, the breakfast of champions
[10:11] <brobostigon> never tried that.
[10:12] <ali1234> kvarley: cool. did it fix your graphics problems?
[10:13] <kvarley> ali1234: Going to find out later. Got some work on at the moment. Will let you know. Thanks for all your help yesterday btw :)
[10:53] <AlanBell> I see Apple have updated their website :)
[10:53] <AlanBell> http://www.apple.com/uk/ legal notice at the bottom
[11:04] <kvarley> ali1234: 1204 hangs on the splash screen. Gonna just install 1210 and try not to break the drivers
[11:04] <kvarley> AlanBell: love how they are still putting it as far down the page as possible
[11:06] <popey> i appear to have broken 32-bit opengl on my 64-bit system
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> popey: have you installed the :i386 versions of the libraries?
[11:07] <popey> 1328841
[11:07] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1328841/
[11:07] <nucc1> i wonder why totem is no longer keeping my screen from going off...
[11:07] <popey> see ^^
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> popey: cool
[11:09] <popey> suggestions welcome
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> does the machine actually have the ATi drivers?
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> as it's trying to do something with libdrm-radeon
[11:11] <popey> no
[11:11] <popey> its all intel, my x220
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> try also installing libdrm-intel1:i386
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> instead of the radeon one
[11:13] <popey> well, i get the intel one installed, but the libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 still isnt installed, and still wants the ATI one
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> that's weird.. you'd think it would depend on one of the libdrm-* libraries
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> not all of them
[11:15] <popey> aptitude is having a fit trying to resolve this
[11:15] <MartijnVdS> you're not running R yet are you? :)
[11:15] <popey> nope
[11:15] <popey> 12.04
[11:16] <popey> open: 8513; closed: 47648; defer: 431; conflict: 721                                                                                             oNo solution found within the allotted time.  Try harder? [Y/n]
[11:16] <popey> nice
[11:17] <popey> aha, i think i got something from a ppa!
[11:19] <popey> \o/ fixed
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> ppas bad?
[11:21] <popey> somehow I had  a manually installed library
[11:21] <popey> 2.4.39-0ubuntu1.0~ppa1.1
[11:33] <kvarley> Ubuntu 12.04.1 hangs on splash screen. I've disabled secure boot and am not booting UEFI mode so I have no idea why it won't boot.
[11:33] <kvarley> Can't get access to any shells
[11:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
[11:36]  * kvarley breaks out the alternative installer ...
[11:54] <madpup> Hi all, im typing this from my new (1 hour old) 12.10 install, so far working great
[11:54] <madpup> so good work devs
[11:55] <popey> yay
[11:55] <madpup> sup popey
[11:57] <madpup> Where do i report a simple bug for battery charging weirdness?
[11:57] <popey> what's the issue?
[11:58] <madpup> when i unplug my laptop charger the laptop freaks out and ubuntu warns the battery flat, 0:01 mins remainning, then it goes back to 3:59
[11:58] <madpup> remainig
[11:59] <popey> I'd let it do a full charge / discharge cycle before filing a bug
[12:00] <popey> i think upower does some kind of battery profiling so it knows how long it should last, but needs to 'learn' that
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> madpup: it takes a while for the battery status to "settle" after disconnecting power
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> also, what popey said
[12:00] <madpup> ok, will do.
[12:00] <madpup> thanks all
[12:07] <danfish> since I updated to 12.10, the battery monitor says I haven't got a battery
[12:08] <danfish> not picking up the mini fusion reactor I've got powering this laptop either :/
[12:12] <madpup> sorry no idea
[12:15] <danfish> not a big problem. Will debug sometime.
[12:16] <popey> danfish, does the magic "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" pull anything in?
[12:19] <danfish> popey: only something about poppler
[12:22] <danfish> I did some messing around with this laptop when I got it experimenting with an external battery monitoring circuit. Probably a user bug, rather than an ubuntu bug!
[12:25] <kvarley> ali1234: I get "PXE-E61: Media Test Failure check cable" when my BIOS posts but my SSD shows up and I can boot from SSD. Is that just a pointless message or could that be affecting my ability to install Ubuntu?
[12:26] <kvarley> Alternative installer doesn't see any partitions on my SSD when there are existing partitions on the drive
[12:26] <kvarley> Something weird is going on
[12:27] <kvarley> CD installer fails checksum test ... doh
[12:54] <BigRedS> Haha, I hate it when that's the issue
[12:54] <BigRedS> Just get into the idea of some protracted set of troubleshooting and experimenting, then realise it's just the Universe being annoying
[12:56] <popey> hey BigRedS
[12:56] <popey> was good to see you at UDS!
[12:56] <popey> fun games :)
[13:00] <BigRedS> Ah yes! I think I'll be buying a set of those cards
[13:03] <cliftonts> hi everyone
[13:04] <cliftonts> I'd like ot ask if someone could help me break a ubuntu install
[13:04] <BigRedS> What sort of breakage?
[13:05] <cliftonts> right, I know a guy who is an idiot, a danger to himself any anyone who gets close
[13:05] <cliftonts> He's set himself up doing PC repairs, I wouldn't trust him to open a can of beans though!
[13:05] <cliftonts> So I want to pull a prank on him
[13:05] <czajkowski> cliftonts: kinda unfair, give the guy a break
[13:06] <cliftonts> have you ever seen it where someone tried to install windows over ubuntu and just got an error on boot that said GRUB ERROR 1?
[13:06] <kvarley> Samsung 535U3C-A02UK - Ubuntu 12.04 freezes at splash screen. Ubuntu 12.10 doesn't give me a GUI. Any ideas? This is beginning to get really annoying.
[13:07] <cliftonts> czajkowski I'm not exagerating, this guy has owned 4 boats, sunk 3 of them and sailed the 4th into a wier
[13:07] <cliftonts> he couldn't fix his own pc to save his life, he shouldn't be tinkering with other people's property if he's not up to the task
[13:10] <BigRedS> kvarley: s this the liveCD?
[13:11] <kvarley> BigRedS: Yes. I'm just trying 12.10 off a disc then I'm going to try the alternative install. Last time the alternative install didn't copy to my USB stick correctly so it wouldn't see any existing partitions
[13:11] <BigRedS> If so, try the alternate CD
[13:11] <BigRedS> ah
[13:11] <cliftonts> So, can anyone suggest a way to set Ubuntu up that would break any attempt to install windows in it's place?
[13:11] <kvarley> Sounds like you want secure boot
[13:12] <BigRedS> Not really - Windows would just overwrite whatever's in the Ubuntu
[13:12] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[13:12] <kvarley> Secure boot with a custom key for Ubuntu
[13:12] <cliftonts> on an old laptop kvarley
[13:13] <BigRedS> yeah, though you'd need to sign the windows installer, otherwise it'll fail at that bit
[13:13] <cliftonts> bigreds years ago when I tried to install windows it would result in grub error 1, I can't recreate that issue now tho
[13:13] <kvarley> If he installs windows on his machine over ubuntu then surely it's his problem if he messes its up?
[13:14] <cliftonts> no kvarley it would be my machine and I want grub to get in the way
[13:14] <BigRedS> cliftonts: that's just where you've not fully installed the windows loader
[13:14] <BigRedS> not sure how you do that
[13:14] <bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, I thnk the house opposite's Door is wide open .. just saying.
[13:14] <cliftonts> nor me, I need to figure this out
[13:15] <BigRedS> grub can't reallyt get in the way - OS installers trump any existing permissions unless they specifically decided to honour them
[13:15] <AlanBell> bootlkjkgf: that is a passageway between the houses there
[13:16] <cliftonts> that's a pain in the backside. My plan revolves around him not being able to install windows over the top
[13:16] <kvarley> liftonts: Is this guy a client or a friend?
[13:16] <bootlkjkgf> Oh Ok.
[13:16] <AlanBell> that is two houses, I think their "front" doors are left and right off the passage
[13:16] <kvarley> cliftonts: Is this guy a client or friend?
[13:17] <cliftonts> kvarley neither, he's an idiot who thinks he can be an IT technician
[13:17] <cliftonts> he once destroyed someones PS3 without their knowledge so he could find out if the blu ray drive would fit his pc
[13:17] <cliftonts> imagine someone like that let loose on your laptop
[13:18] <bootlkjkgf> Wow that was a big bus.
[13:21] <kvarley> cliftonts: Why not just give him Windows with a limited user account?
[13:21] <cliftonts> what?
[13:21] <kvarley> cliftonts: Even more restrictive a network boot windows install
[13:22] <cliftonts> I someone to go to him and say 'I just bought this laptop and windows doesn't work'
[13:22] <cliftonts> install ubuntu, hide the spash screen, auto loging and the awesome window manager
[13:22] <cliftonts> it'd blow his brain!
[13:22] <kvarley> cliftonts: Lol sounds like you have a passionate hate for this guy
[13:22] <kvarley> *hatred
[13:23] <cliftonts> kvarley I really can't express enough how dangerous it is for this guy to be doing this to the public
[13:23] <cliftonts> but I've known him for years and the opportunity for a practical joke is too big to miss
[13:24] <cliftonts> Aah! What if I password protect the bios and set it to boot off the hard drive before all other devices and disable the F12 option?
[13:24] <kvarley> That'd work
[13:24] <popey> are there not more productive things you can do with your weekend?
[13:24]  * kvarley agrees with popey
[13:25] <kvarley> A lot of effort to give the guy grief
[13:25] <cliftonts> popey, if you knew him you'd be reaching for your video camera and booking a front row seat
[13:26] <kvarley> cliftonts: If he breaks his laptop will you be paid to fix it?
[13:26] <cliftonts> kvarley it would be my laptop he would break and no
[13:26] <kvarley> cliftonts: I really don't understand the situation lol
[13:26] <kvarley> cliftonts: You don't like a guy so you are letting him use your laptop but only with Ubuntu on
[13:27] <cliftonts> ok, from the top:
[13:27] <cliftonts> idiot starts pc repair business
[13:27] <cliftonts> idiot is going to break any computer he touches
[13:27]  * popey goes to make flapjack with the kids 
[13:27] <cliftonts> his tag line on his business card is 'if it's broken, I can fix it!'
[13:27] <cliftonts> I want to give him a machine where he won't know where to start
[13:29] <kvarley> Fit a read only hard drive
[13:29] <kvarley> Or take the hard drive out
[13:29] <kvarley> And put an sd card in read only mode
[13:29] <cliftonts> a read only hard drive?
[13:29] <kvarley> Not sure if they exist lol
[13:29] <cliftonts> I don't have the kit to do an SD card
[13:30] <kvarley> I'd give up
[13:30] <kvarley> That or just install Ubuntu
[13:30] <cliftonts> nah, trust me the opportunity is too good to miss
[13:30] <cliftonts> I'm going to install ubuntu
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: Chromebook ;)
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: he won't know what hit him
[13:32] <cliftonts> MartijnVdS, are you paying for that??
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: I have one
[13:32] <cliftonts> would you risk him breaking it??
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> no
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[13:32] <cliftonts> exactly
[13:33] <cliftonts> he's getting a celeron with 40gb hdd, I don't care if he kills it
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> I just threw out an old machine (PII/III) with bad caps on the mainboard
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> see how he copes with bad caps! :)
[13:33] <cliftonts> lol
[13:34]  * kvarley1 has found a pc that can't have Ubuntu installed on it! =/
[13:34] <cliftonts> damn this is annoying, I can't disable f12
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: on what?
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> kvarley1: :(
[13:35] <cliftonts> Dell Inspiron 1300
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> what does F12 do?
[13:35] <cliftonts> boot menu
[13:35] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I've tried USB and disc installs of Ubuntu 12.04.1, 12.10 and 12.10 alternative
[13:35] <kvarley> Surely the bios password locks you out of f12 tho?
[13:36] <cliftonts> If I set it to hard disk first then disable the boot menu and put a password on the bios he'll be stuck
[13:36] <cliftonts> kvarley: you think?
[13:36] <kvarley> cliftonts: Yes.
[13:36] <kvarley> cliftonts: He won't be stuck
[13:36] <kvarley> cliftonts: All he has to do is look up online how to clear the CMOS
[13:37] <cliftonts> kvarley: you still aren't getting how monumentally thick this guy is are you?
[13:37] <cliftonts> and the boot menu still works with the password
[13:38] <kvarley> cliftonts: Doesn't take a genius to put "lost bios password" into google
[13:39] <cliftonts> he's not a genius, he's barely a vegetable
[13:39] <kvarley> cliftonts: Just get over your hate for this guy. Don't waste your time trying to make his life hard.
[13:39]  * kvarley is afk
[13:43] <cliftonts> got it!
[13:44] <czajkowski> oh dear https://www.facebook.com/ubuntulocoteams/posts/390603791007654  why people file bugs via FB I do not know
[13:47] <AlanBell> s/file bugs via//
[13:48] <cliftonts> guys, is there a way to chasn
[13:48] <cliftonts> change the account ubuntu one client is linked to?
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: log out, then back in with new account?
[13:49] <czajkowski> cliftonts: are you still trying to trick your mate
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> System settings -> Ubuntu One
[13:50] <cliftonts> MartijnVdS I don't see any way to change the details, or log out
[13:51] <czajkowski> cliftonts: have you really nothing better to be doing with your week than trying to fool him
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: some people are 12 ;)
[13:52] <cliftonts> czajkowski: the way i see it, proving to him that he's not capable is doing many people a favour
[13:52] <czajkowski> cliftonts:  thats wrong, many people come here with issues and we try and help, I dont see why we should go out of way to trick people
[13:52] <czajkowski> cliftonts: you've often come here looking for help on stuff you don't know
[13:53] <czajkowski> cliftonts: would you like us to go out of our way to trick you
[13:53] <cliftonts> czajkowski: You must be great fun at parties with that sense of humour!
[13:53] <cliftonts> anyway must dash, I need to swap my donge to the other pc
[13:53] <czajkowski> I am you know
[13:53] <cliftonts> lol take care
[14:11]  * BigRedS vouches for czajkowski being hilarious
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> at times
[14:13] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: always in fact!
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Ok
[14:16] <BigRedS> haha
[14:24]  * MartijnVdS tries to find a place that can print panorama pics properly
[14:38] <kvarley> Do I install the FGLRX driver or the FGLRX driver with post-release updates?
[14:39] <sagaci> Ended up going t mobile with a gig .. Better than nothing
[14:39] <BigRedS> more updates is generally better
[14:39] <BigRedS> but generally advice is to not use fglrx unless you need to
[14:40] <kvarley> BigRedS: Well screen brightness doesn't work without it so I have to =/
[14:40] <sagaci> Had bad experiences with fglrx in every install
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: neither
[14:40] <kvarley> I've never had issues ... until now
[14:41] <MartijnVdS> I've _always_ had issues with both nvidia and fglrx
[14:46] <kvarley> Do you think this will work without FGLRX installed?
[14:46] <kvarley> https://launchpad.net/samsung-tools
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> yes
[14:51] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: :)
[15:02] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I can't use unity 3d without FGLRX?
[15:02] <kvarley> Or do I have to manually install the open source drivers?
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> nah, the open source driver is the default
[15:02] <kvarley> Well, it doesn't let me in unity 3d
[15:02] <MartijnVdS> but basic 3D support should work..
[15:06] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: It lets me in but doesn't do the workspaces properly
[15:07] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm gonna try FGLRX because the brightness control didn't work
[15:08] <kvarley> On the plus side
[15:08] <kvarley> My laptop is now lightning quick
[15:08] <kvarley> Ubuntu + SSD <3
[15:27] <kvarley> So strange - I have a "AMD Unsupported hardware" watermark on my screen after installing FGLRX but everything works functionality wise
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> too new!
[15:27] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: The hardware?
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> yes?
[15:28] <kvarley> It's an AMD A6-4455M which has Radeon 7500G graphics so it's not really new
[15:28] <kvarley> It is trinity tho I think
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> then it might be too old?
[15:28] <kvarley> So that's kind of new
[15:29] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: It was only introduced in Q2 of this year apparently
[15:33]  * Neoti_Desktop Networking, VoIP, Systems Geek for hire!
[15:34] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: A newer version of catalyst is available so I'm gonna try that
[15:34] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ty for help :)
[17:36] <ali1234> kvarley: that bios message means that the bios is trying to PXE boot from the wired ethernet but no network cable is connected so it failed. you can disable PXE boot in the bios or just ignore it
[17:37] <ali1234> it's for diskless machines which boot from a server basically so you don't need it. it can be useful in certain situations (like kernel development) but you can always enable it again.
[17:41] <ali1234> cliftonts does indeed need secure boot to pull off his prank
[17:42] <ali1234> however, for the reasons eimon pointed out yesterday, it won't work on an x86 platform, because the user can just turn it off
[17:42] <ali1234> so actually password protecting the bios would work better
[17:42] <ali1234> then he'll have to open the machine to unplug the nvram battery
[17:49] <kvarley> ali1234: I suspected that was it but wanted to check. I disabled the option in the BIOS and all is well. Was just checking that it wasn't a potential HDD/SDD problem
[17:50] <kvarley> ali1234: I finally have Ubuntu 12.10 installed
[17:50] <kvarley> ali1234: Alternative 64-bit installer, ethernet install, using Guided paritioning
[17:50] <kvarley> ali1234: Using the FGLRX drivers, with samsung-tools for brightness control settings, hiding the watermark that says unsupported hardware
[17:50] <kvarley> ali1234: Thanks again for all your help :D
[17:51] <ali1234> cool
[19:13] <czajkowski> popey: on your nexus does the sound always start up muted?
[19:23] <brobostigon> which log file. in /var/log , shows the boot messages output?
[19:23] <popey> czajkowski, bug 1068804
[19:24] <popey> czajkowski, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7 is worth a browse
[19:26] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[19:26] <czajkowski> loving it this evening
[19:39] <penguin42> popey: Do you know if there are any triaging rules for the ubuntu-nexus7 stuff? I mean when should stuff get triaged to ubuntu-nexus7 as opposed to unity or the appropriate X package?
[19:40] <czajkowski> penguin42: teams/develoeprs tend to like to triage their own bugs
[19:41] <penguin42> czajkowski: I'm on bug-control&squad so do a general set of triaging of bugs
[19:42] <czajkowski> penguin42: if in doubt triage to nexus7 and let them re triage from there
[19:42] <penguin42> czajkowski: Hmm ok, that's interestingly different from every other platform
[19:43] <czajkowski> penguin42: well how else will you knw as it's rather new
[19:43] <penguin42> czajkowski: but it's the same components isn't it?
[19:45] <penguin42> czajkowski: I can see adding ubuntu-nexus7 as an also-affects to a bug which is on the particular package
[19:45] <czajkowski> fair enough.
[19:46] <brobostigon> is it possible to grep a the whole of /var/log for a specific string ?
[19:47] <penguin42> brobostigon: grep -r
[19:47] <brobostigon> penguin42: thank you.
[19:55] <popey> penguin42, if stuff is specific to unity/kernel etc then yeah, I'd add a task for those
[19:59] <penguin42> popey: I assume there is a linux-nexus7 or the like?
[20:01] <AlanBell> so I have a nexus 7 with a bunch of apps and about 6GB of music on it, can I back that lot up, try ubuntu on it and put all the stuff back again later?
[20:03] <AlanBell> and does bluetooth work on it when running Ubuntu?
[20:04] <AlanBell> so that rhythmbox could play music to a bluetooth receiver somewhere?
[20:14] <popey> not that I'm aware of penguin42
[20:14] <popey> we need to fix these in distro itself
[20:20] <penguin42> popey: Ah there is a linux-nexus7, but it's in the ubuntu-nexus7 ppa
[20:21] <ali1234> AlanBell: if bluetooth doesn't work, and you want it to work, if you send me a nexus 7, i will make it work :)
[20:22] <Azelphur> wow, that Ubuntu on the nexus 7 thing is cool
[20:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: One of the Knownissues listed is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1070770
[20:22] <Azelphur> wtb dual boot
[20:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: i.e. bluetooth doesn't work
[20:23] <ali1234> wow, fail
[20:23] <AlanBell> ok, thanks penguin42
[20:23] <penguin42> ali1234: Hey it's new, it needs the bugs beating out of it still
[20:23] <ali1234> there's only about three companies that make bluetooth chips and all the chips are either uart or usb
[20:24] <ali1234> and they all have drivers
[20:24] <penguin42> ali1234: Be careful, ARM stuff tends to be a bit different
[20:24] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/102921374554385564572/posts/98MpbTnMptE it does look nice running ubuntu
[20:24] <ali1234> not at all
[20:24] <penguin42> ali1234: Although in this case maybe it looks like just a bluetoothd bug
[20:24] <ali1234> nobody puts bluetooth into a SoC
[20:25] <ali1234> ARM boards typically use UART mode
[20:25] <ali1234> because it's the easiest to do
[20:26] <ali1234> i bet that it's crashing because they haven't loaded firmware
[20:27] <ali1234> well, actually i bet it's crashing because bluetoothd is buggy
[20:27] <ali1234> but the bug is likely exposed because the adapter behaves differently without some firmware... they often need it for high speed mode etc
[20:28] <penguin42> yeh it just looks like a heap corruption of sometype from the log there
[20:30]  * penguin42 should buy a tablet of some type
[20:31] <ali1234> i would rather get a nexus 4 actually
[20:31] <penguin42> the one with the uber res display?
[20:31] <AlanBell> I might wait for the nexus 10
[20:31] <ali1234> no thats the 10
[20:31] <ali1234> the 4 is just a normal phone
[20:31] <penguin42> ah ok
[20:32] <AlanBell> we have a nexus 7 but it's primary purpose is to play mary black CDs in the kitchen
[20:32] <ali1234> but the interesting thing about it is it's 1/3 the price of all other (smart) phones off contract
[20:32] <penguin42> ali1234: How much?
[20:32] <AlanBell> so if I broke bluetooth audio I might be in trouble
[20:32] <ali1234> i can't remember
[20:33] <AlanBell> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=nexus £239
[20:33] <ali1234> £239
[20:33] <penguin42> ali1234: I only spent about 80 on my Orange San Francisco ~2 years ago
[20:33] <ali1234> £279 for 16gb
[20:33] <penguin42> ali1234: Low spec though
[20:33] <ali1234> orange san francisco was a PAYG
[20:33] <AlanBell> the nexus 10 is £319 and comes out on the 13th
[20:34] <ali1234> and if you stopped buying credit, orange blacklisted the phone
[20:34] <penguin42> ali1234: blacklisted?
[20:34] <ali1234> so yeah that was a good deal except for those people who bought it and unlocked it and then found it stopped working
[20:34] <AlanBell> why would you get the nexus 4 over the nexus 7 (159)
[20:34] <ali1234> um because the nexus 4 is a phone
[20:34] <AlanBell> oh, so it is :) didn't spot that!
[20:34] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm interesting, I unlocked it, I've run it on T-mobile before they fully merged
[20:35] <ali1234> penguin42: yep. you might find it doesn't work any more now that they have
[20:35] <penguin42> ali1234: It's still my daily phone
[20:35] <ali1234> i've read lots of reports about this
[20:35] <ali1234> anywho, that was a subsidized loss leader basically
[20:35] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm perfectly happy for them to subsidise me :-)
[20:35] <ali1234> sure
[20:36] <penguin42> ali1234: Especially given how tight I am on my PAYG usage
[20:36] <ali1234> but the point is, you won't find a smartphone this cheap that is without contract and unlocked
[20:37] <ali1234> it's a pretty big move. hardware is pretty average sure, but the other good thing about it is you won't get left behind by operators dragging their heels on updates
[20:37] <penguin42> ali1234: It's interestingly nasty if they have been doing that
[20:37] <ali1234> that's the main reason i want it
[20:37] <penguin42> yeh, reasonable
[20:37] <ali1234> ICS runs fine on the SGS so uber hardware isn't everything
[20:38] <ali1234> not SGS3, the original one. still really fast.
[20:39] <ali1234> http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/orange-san-francisco-blacklisted-help-wanted-1099242
[20:39] <ali1234> loads of threads like that around the internet specifically for that phone
[20:40] <ali1234> blacklisting is the IMEI database of stolen phones
[20:40] <AlanBell> nexus 10 is totally different CPU and GPU to the nexus 7 so I guess Ubuntu on it won't happen for a bit
[20:41] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, interesting, all at about the same time, last December - I was still on Orange then
[20:42] <popey> yeah, it will
[20:43] <popey> nexus 10 has same chip as the chromebook
[20:43] <penguin42> AlanBell: But it's the exynos which is pretty heavily supported, so shouldn't be too bad
[20:44] <ali1234> well i want one of those too
[20:45] <ali1234> in that case :)
[20:45]  * penguin42 wants a frankenstinien hybrid of a nexus 10 display in the chromebook
[20:45] <popey> we gave out a bunch of nexus 7's at UDS
[20:45] <penguin42> popey: Good way to get people to debug it :-)
[20:46] <popey> exactly
[20:46] <ali1234> that's really funny cos the ideapad that i got at the meego conference has ubuntu on it
[20:46] <ali1234> but in this case, it's intended that people put ubuntu on it :)
[20:47] <ali1234> incidentally, they gave out ideapads cos they are touchscreen, and the touchscreen doesn't work properly on ubuntu :(
[20:50] <czajkowski> ali1234: were they given out by canonical developers?
[20:50] <ali1234> no, they were given out by intel and nokia, because it was a meego conference
[20:51] <ali1234> they were intended for debugging meego
[20:51] <czajkowski> ah well that might be why, nexus 7 has been picked as that is what the developers are working on, it;s a reasonable price also if people chose to buy one also
[20:51] <czajkowski> and it's intended to encourage people to put ubuntu on it and help debug it
[20:52] <ali1234> i reported a bug: the installer did not support dual booting with ubuntu
[20:52] <ali1234> actually the bootloader was the problem, because meego bootloader didn't support ext4 and ubuntu bootloader didn't support btrfs
[21:35] <gneel> Evening
[21:35] <gneel> How do I report spam in a launchpad bug comment?
[21:39] <czajkowski> gneel: which bug
[21:40] <gneel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/177965
[21:40] <gneel> Comment #9
[21:40] <gneel> It was closed years ago.
[21:40] <czajkowski> done
[21:40] <gneel> czajkowski: Diolch yn fawr
[21:40] <penguin42> does anyone have a precise machine running - and can tell me whether the output of   mount   shows / mounted on /dev/root or the real device?
[21:41] <czajkowski> gneel: eh ?
[21:41] <gneel> penguin42: I'm running precise. I'll check in a mo.
[21:41] <ali1234> penguin42: it says /dev/sda1
[21:41] <penguin42> ali1234: Thanks
[21:41] <gneel> czajkowski: it's Welsh for "ta muchly"
[21:41] <AlanBell> czajkowski: Go raibh céad maith agat
[21:41] <penguin42> ali1234: That's what Quantal said for me, but I wanted to check on precise since that's what the bug I was debugging said
[21:42] <czajkowski> ah ok
[21:42] <czajkowski> :)
[21:42] <gneel> penguin42: I see the same. /dev/sda1, not /dev/root
[21:42] <czajkowski> for future reference please file a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
[21:42] <penguin42> gneel: Thanks
[21:43] <gneel> penguin42: it might depend on whether you have a RAID type setup, or LVM or some other exotic setup
[21:43] <gneel> czajkowski: was the point about the question regarding the spam on the bug?
[21:44] <penguin42> gneel: Yeh, it's a report I've been helping someone with;
[21:44] <popey> penguin42,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1330325/
[21:45] <penguin42> popey: Thanks
[21:46] <shauno> if it's any help, I usually see /dev/root used during initrd before it's pivoted to the correct device
[21:46] <ali1234> what would be a good machine to use for a myth-backend which does not generate much heat?
[21:46] <ali1234> i want to put it in a cupboard
[21:46] <czajkowski> gneel: yes
[21:46] <ali1234> and it needs usb2
[21:47] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh, this guy seems to have landed in a full system with mount still showing /dev/root and when he tries to run update-initramfs it barfs, becasue while mount still shows it, there is no /dev/root and blkid on it fails and then it all kind of fails badly
[21:47] <gneel> popey: I hope making those ecryptfs sigs on your Private directory public is not something that's added a vulnerability!
[21:47] <ali1234> and yeah /dev/root is what you see when the kernel mounted root rather than something in user space (ie after initrd)
[21:47] <gneel> czajkowski: thanks
[21:48] <ali1234> penguin42: block devices don't necessarily exist in /dev. just mknod it if you really need to...
[21:48] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh but various of the update scripts assume that what mount says that / is mounted on matches reality
[21:49] <penguin42> ali1234: So while yes that would fix it, it doesn't explain why his system is screwed up in this way, which is really the more important question
[21:49] <ali1234> make /dev/root: mknod /dev/root b $(lvm lvdisplay -C --noheadings --separator " " --options lvm_kernel_major,lvm_kernel_minor)
[21:49] <shauno> right .. fixing the cause, not the symptom
[21:49] <popey> gneel, how would it?
[21:49] <ali1234> so it's not really even a real block device, just a shortcut essentially
[21:50] <ali1234> penguin42: what's his kernel command line (cat /proc/cmdline)
[21:50] <ali1234> also check early dmesg of course
[21:50] <gneel> popey: don't know, it just looks like something I wouldn't make public. I know it's not the actual keys. Is it some sort of signature of the keys?
[21:52] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm unfortunately that bit has scrolled off his dmesg that's attached; but that's a good thing to ask
[21:52] <ali1234> try /var/log/syslog
[21:53] <ali1234> or /var/log/messages depending on distro
[21:53] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh what's happening here is mkinitramfs awk's the output of mount, and if that says /dev/root it runs blkid on /dev/root   to find where that really point - but the problem here is that he has an inconsistency somehow; which actually looking at his  attached df output looks like the problme
[21:54] <ali1234> what's in /etc/mtab
[21:54] <ali1234> mount basically just prints out whatever is in /etc/mtab
[21:54] <ali1234> maybe his / is ro cos of errors?
[21:55] <penguin42> ali1234: Don't know - this is just going off a bug report, so I need to ask a few more questions - it's not a ro / from the logs, but there is an add set of errors about failure to create pty's during init that's interesting, and his df is a little screwy
[21:55] <ali1234> public bug?
[21:57] <gneel> G'night all.
[21:59] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh bug 1062699 - I've just asked him for his /proc/cmdline,    it looks like the initramfs isn't quite finishing correctly, leaving two (incoherent) / shown in df and mount
[22:00] <penguin42> ali1234: Lets see what he says to that one
[22:00] <ali1234> hmm that dmesg is complete
[22:00] <penguin42> ali1234: Except the top has scrolled off the buffer
[22:01] <ali1234> not anything interesting
[22:01] <penguin42> indeed
[22:01] <penguin42> ali1234: Those pty errors are odd, but not apparently related - but still odd
[22:02] <ali1234> he is not using a ramfs?
[22:02] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't think he's doing anything weird there
[22:03] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm suspecting the problem is something like some screw up when he upgraded from 11.10 to 12.04 that failed to properly create the 12.04 initramfs properly, and it's screwed in such a way that it can't fix itself
[22:03] <ali1234> quite possibly
[22:03] <ali1234> dunno about it being due to an upgrade
[22:03] <ali1234> but not having an initramfs doesn't seem right
[22:04] <penguin42> ali1234: Well he said that's when it first occurred, but we'll see what his /proc/cmdline looks like
[22:05] <penguin42> right, back in ~1hr
[22:05] <ali1234> this is what dmesg should look like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1330385/
[22:05] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, during the early boot it goes into a fixed size buffer, if the initial boot dmesg uses too much space (before it manages to write to disk) then you lose the start
[22:05] <ali1234> the pty error is almost certainly due to the missing initramfs, like everything else
[22:06] <ali1234> yes, but look at the area of line 770
[22:06] <ali1234> that "freeing unused memory" line is always within a couple of lines of where it mounts root, IF the kernel is mounting root
[22:07] <ali1234> but on my system it isn't, because i have an initrd
[22:07] <ali1234> on the bugged system kernel is mounting sda1 directly, which is why it shows as /dev/root
[22:07] <ali1234> and it mounts directly because missing ramdisk
[22:08] <penguin42> ali1234: It's an interesting theory, lets see what his reply is; if the error first occurred during an upgrade, perhaps what we're seeing is he bodged around the lack of a ramdisk, and then we're just seeing more fallout
[22:08] <penguin42> anyway, as I say - back in 1h30
[22:08] <ali1234> basically before those lines the kernel does not touch anything with any filesystem at all regardless of initramfs or direct partition
[22:08] <ali1234> nah, without ramdisk the kernel command line has root= so it will still work, sort of. it will do exactly what you're seeing in fact
[22:09] <ali1234> no bodging involved
[22:09] <ali1234> and mkinitramfs will fail
[22:09] <ali1234> exactly like it is doing
[22:09] <ali1234> so it can't be fixed
[22:09] <ali1234> basically i would say that manually creating the initramfs once will fix the system
[22:10] <ali1234> then raise a bug against mkinitramfs not working if you don't already have an initramfs
[22:13] <ali1234> something else that would work is to boot livecd, chroot, run update-initramfs, reboot
[22:13] <ali1234> initramfs should not pay attention to /dev/root anyway for exactly this reason
[22:14] <ali1234> actually that might fail due to mtab being wrong
[22:23] <ali1234> hmm so just for a laugh i deleted all my initrds on a VM and it renders the system unbootable
[22:24] <shauno> and people say I have a strange sense of humour
[22:24] <ali1234> people have given up telling me that
[22:25] <ali1234> hmm
[22:25] <ali1234> if i select recovery mode it does attempt to boot without initrd
[22:37] <BigRedS> Yeah, if you've kernel support for all your hardware it'll boot without an initrd
[22:41] <ali1234> BigRedS: yes, and if you boot without an initrd then / seems to get mounted on /dev/root and this makes update-initramfs not work
[22:42] <ali1234> so you can only make an initrd if you already have an initrd!
[22:44] <shauno> no, you can only create an initrd while you're not in recovery mode.  if you create a correct boot stanza while you're in recovery mode, then boot into that, you're set
[22:45] <ali1234> yeah
[22:45] <ali1234> the problem is you can boot into not-recovery mode without an initrd
[22:45] <ali1234> and it looks normal
[22:45] <ali1234> until you try to make an initrd
[22:46] <ali1234> other than some cryptic errors on dmesg the system appears to be working normally
[22:46] <ali1234> until apt chokes while trying to update the kernel
[22:47] <shauno> I would say they just need to point grub at the correct root device while they're in recovery mode.  but the config for grub2 is now managed by crack-fueled monkeys
[22:47] <ali1234> for sure
[22:48] <ali1234> it should be enough to go to grub command line and say linux /boot/vmlinux<tab><tab> root=/dev/sda1
[22:48] <ali1234> then boot
[22:48] <ali1234> then update-initramfs -c -k all
[22:48] <ali1234> then reboot normally and everything should be fine
[22:49] <ali1234> however it's a bit much to expect the average user to know this :)
[22:55] <BigRedS> this is a new thing; I've built a new initrd for a system without one in the not-too-distant past
[22:56] <MonsterKiller> how do you get rid of this annoying shopping search on 12.10 dash?
[22:56] <AlanBell> !adlens
[22:56] <MonsterKiller> kk thanks :)
[22:57] <BigRedS> I like that finally one of those has the ! genuinely meaning negation
[22:57] <AlanBell> heh
[22:57] <AlanBell> there must be other examples of that
[22:58] <BigRedS> yeah, probably. I just remember the first few times I came across them wondering why the message was almost inverse to the command
[22:59] <MonsterKiller> i removed the amazon thing from the software center before but shopping is there on and its saying unabled to locate package unity-lens-shopping
[22:59] <Laney> !yes
[22:59] <Laney> !yes is no
[22:59] <AlanBell> oi
[23:00] <Laney> it's true!
[23:00] <Laney> also, good evening
[23:00] <AlanBell> evening
[23:00] <AlanBell> 22:59 < lubotu3> In #ubuntu-uk, Laney said: !yes is no
[23:01] <Laney> can't argue with that
[23:01] <czajkowski> ello Laney
[23:01] <Laney> ow do?
[23:01] <czajkowski> Laney: find your power supply at all ?
[23:02] <Laney> no :( - I bought a new one
[23:02] <BigRedS> ,MonsterKiller I've read that three times and still don't know what you mean
[23:02] <Laney> did I tell you that I broke my phone too?
[23:02] <ali1234> BigRedS: it's not impossible to create an initrd, it's just an interesting corner case where not having an initrd has exposed a bug in mkinitramfs
[23:03] <czajkowski> Laney: was it an iphone?
[23:03] <Laney> n900
[23:03] <czajkowski> am gonna strangle the neighbours 2 doors down
[23:03] <ali1234> did you break the USB port by any chance?
[23:03] <Laney> the display just decided to stop working
[23:03] <czajkowski> blaring mucis since 8
[23:03] <czajkowski> massive house party
[23:03] <ali1234> oh :(
[23:03] <czajkowski> porters wont do anything till 11pm
[23:03] <MonsterKiller> lol. First, to get rid of the shopping thing i removed the amazon shopping thing from the installed software on the software center, but i still had shopping results. so then i just tried removing unity-lens-shopping but it said the package was not found
[23:03] <Laney> that's now!
[23:03] <czajkowski> Laney: you're broken!
[23:03] <BigRedS> ah right, It was the middle of the night so I probably didn't notice anything, saw the system booted and left it be :)
[23:03] <nothingspecial> thats the law czajkowski
[23:03] <MonsterKiller> i disabled it in privacy settings now
[23:04] <czajkowski> Laney: music got louder since porters went in
[23:04] <AlanBell> MonsterKiller: you would need to log out and back in again
[23:04] <Laney> being phoneless feels weird
[23:04] <nothingspecial> you can be as loud as a jumbo jet between 7am and 11pm
[23:04] <AlanBell> MonsterKiller: you uninstalled it from the disk, but it was still running
[23:04] <czajkowski> nothingspecial: no you cant, you cant be a noise nuisance
[23:04] <MonsterKiller> I had restarted after removing it from software center
[23:04] <nothingspecial> that's what the policeman told me once anyway
[23:04] <BigRedS> yeah, it's decidedly easier from 11pm, but there's still limits generally
[23:04] <czajkowski> and also it's 8am during the week and 11am on the weekends, tennancy agreemnt
[23:05] <AlanBell> the privacy settings thing is an epic fail, but it does work for the default lenses
[23:05] <ali1234> a jumbo jet is pretty loud, i suspect the rozzers would show up pretty quick
[23:05] <czajkowski> BigRedS: 2 aparments in the middle and I can hear the musi perfectly
[23:05] <nothingspecial> as my band thrashed on past midnight
[23:05] <ali1234> in a licensed venue or in someones house?
[23:05] <nothingspecial> in a warehouse
[23:06] <nothingspecial> this was many years ago
[23:07] <Laney> you could also call the environmental health if the porter is useless
[23:07]  * Laney tries to remember why he just opened a terminal
[23:07] <czajkowski> Laney: aye trying to work that out now as back home you'd just ring the police
[23:07] <Laney> I'd google "<council name> environmental health"
[23:08] <nothingspecial> anyway, it's 11 now. They have to turn it down
[23:09] <nothingspecial> ring the police
[23:57] <ali1234> any KDE users about?
[23:58] <ali1234> can someone do me a screenshot like this: open a text editor, a terminal, and a music player (default KDE apps), and then take a screenshot with them all visible and the K menu open
[23:59] <ali1234> type some stuff in the text editor please :)