[02:45] <len-dt> zequence, pulse-jack seems to have more issues in 12.10... worked better in 12.04
[02:47] <len-dt> I'll have to do more testing... but in 12.04 I could have pulse playing something direct to alsa and start jack no problem. Now, if I have used pulse to play something at all it doesn't seem to wish to give up the alsa port and jack fails to start.
[02:48] <len-dt> I seem to have to kill pulse (respawn pulse) and then jack starts. Qjackctl also has to be restarted.
[02:49] <len-dt> Jacks  problem of being hard to stop is much better though.
[02:50] <len-dt> I remember getting email that there was a new version of pulse going in...
[02:56] <len-dt> zequence, it seems ok with any quick check. After a login it is fine. 
[03:01] <len-dt> run a video in firefox and pavucontrol show an alsa plugin container... start jack and the audio quits but jack errors.
[03:03] <len-dt> Now stop the video and the alsa container is gone, but jack still won't start. pulseaudio --kill and wait for pulse to restart.
[03:03] <len-dt> now jack will start
[03:04] <len-dt> nope I had to exit jack first (jack_control exit then jack_control start)
[03:07] <len-dt> So it seems once pulse has been used for anything, both jack and pulse have to be killed and restarted. (or exited anyway)
[04:52] <len-dt> Weird, sometimes when PA is killed it resawns without the output port even when jackdbus is stopped. Ahh, the I want that port signal from jack is still there.
[04:54] <len-dt> Something has gone strange in the dbus connection. I have not had jack fail to stop though.
[05:08] <len-dt> until I said that..
[07:19] <zequence> len-dt: I haven't done much testing with that
[07:46] <zequence> len-dt: Ah, not. The KX version is a lot more updated than the package in Quantal. Actually, the source for Quantal does not seem to have been updated since March
[07:46] <zequence> I'll try it out
[07:47] <zequence> If it works well, we should look at what source is available in Debian testing, and do a SRU
[07:48] <smartboyhw> Hi zequence for which source?
[07:49] <zequence> smartboyhw: jackd2
[07:50] <zequence> len-dt: I remember falktx was talking about there being some complications with dependencies, to get it built though
[07:51] <smartboyhw> zequence, grrr
[07:52] <smartboyhw> that is bad
[07:55] <zequence> len-dt: I'm not getting the stop jack error at all right now
[08:01] <zequence> len-dt: This is on the updated source
[08:01] <zequence> And from what I can tell, Debian hasn't updated their git tree, probably due to there not being a new jackd version yet
[08:01] <zequence> So, I'll ask them to update it
[08:01] <smartboyhw> zequence, good:D
[08:17] <zequence> len-dt: I mailed debian multimedia team about updating the source. Until then, if you like, do try the kx versions, and see if you can get that one to malfunction
[08:17] <zequence> len-dt: Just don't update anything else than jackd2
[08:38] <zequence> smartboyhw: So, we should start looking at what kind of testing we should do
[08:38] <zequence> smartboyhw: As you know, we don't really need to do a lot of desktop testing. 
[08:38] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK
[08:40] <zequence> smartboyhw: I see that you are to test the ubuntu-desktop ISO
[08:40] <smartboyhw> zequence, where do you see that?......
[08:40] <zequence> I can see a purpose with testing the xubuntu-desktop in the same fasion
[08:40] <zequence> fashion
[08:40] <zequence> smartboyhw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Cadence
[08:41] <smartboyhw> zequence, I am planning that. Cadence testing is quite good for us
[08:41] <zequence> smartboyhw: The type of testing that is important for Ubuntu Studio is multimedia focused
[08:42] <zequence> smartboyhw: As you are interested in doing testing, I advice you to continue with Ubuntu and add Xubuntu to the mix
[08:42] <smartboyhw> zequence, yeah I do agree. Workflow testing...
[08:42] <zequence> smartboyhw: Have you talked with Xubuntu about this?
[08:42] <smartboyhw> zequence, please contact knome and elfy in #xubuntu-devel. I am NOT their QA lead;P
[08:43] <zequence> smartboyhw: Doesn't matter who is lead. If you want to help them with testing, just let them know
[08:43] <smartboyhw> zequence, I think they do know:D
[08:43] <zequence> smartboyhw: Ok, good
[08:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: I don't think we need testing every two weeks actually. It has to do with if we had any changes to our packages
[08:44] <smartboyhw> zequence, 1 month is better for us I think though
[08:45] <zequence> 1 month sounds good
[08:46] <zequence> smartboyhw: We should probably test only those packages that were changed
[08:46] <zequence> I can look into getting a list of those, using a script
[08:46] <smartboyhw> zequence, yes. So we can test the packages....
[08:47] <zequence> Like, if Blender was updated, we should test it. If pulseaudio was updated, we need to test PA and jack
[08:47] <zequence> If alsa was updated, we need to test PA and jack, and so forth
[08:47] <zequence> Dependency based
[08:48] <smartboyhw> zequence, hmm....Maybe then we have to subscribe to their latest updates then
[08:48] <zequence> We don't usually test all the multimedia packages. Would be good to start doing that, and report bugs upstream when we find them
[08:50] <zequence> smartboyhw: raring-changes
[08:51] <zequence> Use "subscribe" as subject, and send to raring-changes-request@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:52] <zequence> I'll see about using some sort of script to compare packages against a list, and if there were changes, make a new list for testers
[08:55] <smartboyhw> zequence, ok
[08:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, no such list
[08:57] <smartboyhw> Should be raring-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:57] <smartboyhw> But that is the mail
[08:57] <smartboyhw> Hmm
[09:05] <contrapunctus> zequence?
[09:18] <zequence> smartboyhw_: When you want to subscribe or unsubscribe, you just add -request to any of the lists
[09:19] <zequence> smartboyhw_: Then, either "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" as subject
[09:19] <smartboyhw_> Ah OK. But then not ALL people want to subscribe to the list right?
[09:20] <smartboyhw_> zequence, ^
[09:20] <zequence> smartboyhw_: It may be enough if I do it, if I'm to create the diffs
[09:21] <smartboyhw> zequence, yeah maybe only you should subscribe to it. 
[09:46] <zequence> astraljava: Actually, I think it might be better to change the mail lists to ubuntustudio-*, as everything else is named using that convention
[09:47] <zequence> All the metas, mail lists, and irc channels
[09:47] <zequence> Also, the home page
[09:47] <zequence> And wikis
[09:47] <zequence> Allthough, the wikis use camel
[09:48] <zequence> All the mail lists, except for the two, -devel and -user
[09:51] <smartboyhw> zequence, can you do this merge? https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.raring/+merge/132705 
[09:51] <smartboyhw> Just fixing a bug reported
[09:52] <smartboyhw> BTW I think that yes we can use the ubuntustudio-users and ubuntustudio-devel name convention
[09:56] <zequence> smartboyhw: I'm not able to right now, since my accounts haven't merged yet. 
[09:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, ah sorry:P
[09:56] <zequence> smartboyhw: didn't receive any mail about it either because of that I guess
[09:56] <smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
[09:57] <smartboyhw> len-dt, maybe?
[09:59] <astraljava> zequence: Well the thing was that back in the day IRCC wanted to rename our channels #ubuntu-studio-*, but it never happened. TBH, I don't care, but it just became a joke, that's apparently not funny anymore.
[10:04] <zequence> astraljava: Oh, ok :)
[10:19]  * smartboyhw finds his home wi-fi connection today very bad
[11:04] <smartboyhw> zequence, that is quick on reacting:P
[11:05] <knome> astraljava, i can poke Tm_T about that if you want it done
[11:07] <zequence> smartboyhw: Yes. I realized this is something very useful on Ubuntu Studio
[11:08] <astraljava> Ugh... How many times must I say it; I. Don't. Care. It was just a joke, that makes nobody laugh anymore. :D
[11:08] <knome> right'o
[14:28]  * smartboyhw now has absolutely all Ubuntu Studio packages of 10.04.4 LTS, 11.10, 12.04.1 LTS and 12.10 in his PPAs.
[14:53] <micahg> smartboyhw: what Ubuntu studio packages?
[14:54] <smartboyhw> micahg, for example in https://launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/+archive/ubuntustudio
[14:54] <smartboyhw> -controls, -default-settings, -icon-theme, -lightdm-theme, -look, -meta, -sounds
[14:55] <micahg> smartboyhw: I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish duplicating what's in teh archive already
[14:55] <smartboyhw> micahg, for fun:P
[14:55]  * smartboyhw thinks he has the right to have fun
[14:56]  * micahg wonders why wasting shared resources is called "fun"
[15:06] <smartboyhw> micahg, then I am going to package the things that hasn't yet been in the archive. 
[15:06] <micahg> smartboyhw: the PPAs build based on what's in the archive
[15:07] <smartboyhw> micahg, "going to" means I am going to build things soon (probably tomorrow) based on the code in the ~ubuntustudio-dev instead
[15:33] <len-dt> zequence, The problem I was having last night, I would guess is a pulse problem, not jack. Though it could be a dbus problem I guess
[15:33] <len-dt> zequence, it seems to me there was a new version of pulse in Q
[15:34] <zequence> len-dt: Did you try with more than one device, making sure pulse was not set to use the device you were to start jack with?
[15:34] <len-dt> zequence, when jackdbus starts it sends a dbus message to release the device it wants to use. In the past pulse has honoured that.
[15:35] <zequence> len-dt: I've found that to be a little unreliable now and then, but haven't had the time or energy to look more into it
[15:35] <len-dt> in 12.04 i could start jack on the same device that pulse was sending a stream to and jack would get it
[15:36] <len-dt> the pulse stream would stop untill I changed the device to jack sink. It was very reliable.
[15:36] <len-dt> now it never works.
[15:37] <zequence> len-dt: Well, I've had the PA sink fail, and jack start fail, and all of the sorts
[15:37] <zequence> len-dt: But, not initially
[15:37] <zequence> len-dt: Usually after some usage. starting and stopping jack
[15:37] <len-dt> zequence, I guess I need to understand how the dbus port release works.
[15:37] <zequence> And after some failures, etc
[15:39] <len-dt> zequence, the bug with jack failing to stop seems to be mostly gone now. It only seems to happen once in 20 or 30 stops.
[15:39] <zequence> len-dt: With the kx version of jackd2?
[15:40] <len-dt> I started and stopped jack maybe 50 times yesterday and it only happened once
[15:40] <len-dt> stock 12.10
[15:40] <zequence> len-dt: Well, it's not like that for me :)
[15:40] <zequence> len-dt: I think jackd2 hasn't been updated at all since precise
[15:41] <zequence> I tried the kx version, and it was working fine, so far
[15:41] <zequence> As I explained earlier, the kx version has quite recent updates
[15:41] <zequence> ..er
[15:41] <zequence> Actually, I haven't been able to verify how recent
[15:41] <len-dt> I have that on my 12.04 disk and it has worked well for me too
[15:42] <len-dt> zequence, 3 or 4 months ago.
[15:42] <zequence> len-dt: Anyway, I'm working on updating it now
[15:42] <zequence> I'd like to have falktx help me a bit. His changelog suggests his source is from 2011, which it of course is not
[15:42] <zequence> The upstream changelog, that is
[15:43] <zequence> For the orig source
[15:43] <len-dt> I think it probably is, but he has patched against that.
[15:43] <zequence> Ah, hmm :)
[15:44] <zequence> This whole jackd thing is a mess now
[15:44] <zequence> We really should get it right soonish
[15:44] <len-dt> I think that jackutils has been updated in ours too... twice. because a bug that was in kx showed up in ours and got fixed :)
[15:44] <len-dt> That is jack_control stopped working and got fixed.
[15:45] <len-dt> I remember bugging falktx about it.
[15:45] <zequence> Yea, the syntax error
[15:45] <zequence> There was a missing symbol in the python file
[15:45] <len-dt> Ya.
[15:47] <len-dt> zequence, so there are three packages that effect PA-jack stuff for us PA, jackd and dbus.
[15:47] <len-dt> We should be watching the three for changes and test.
[15:48] <len-dt> I got an email early in Q that there was a new PA to test. Guess we didn't test it well enough.
[15:50] <zequence> Trying to remove libjack* and it tells me it's going to remove stuff like: account-plugin-aim
[15:50] <zequence> ffmpeg
[15:50] <zequence> ubuntu-gnome-desktop
[15:50] <zequence> I'm a little confused now
[15:51] <len-dt> libjack must has a replaces in it.
[15:53] <zequence> len-dt: Sure, but those things aren't depending on libjack*
[15:54] <len-dt> zequence, such fun..
[16:00] <zequence> len-dt: libjack-jackd2-0 seems to have a bit of rdepends
[16:02] <len-dt> zequence, it is stuff like that that give me a high regard for falktx. his packages seem to fit in seamlessly.
[16:03] <zequence> len-dt: Eh, I kind of see a lot of his work as skotch tape kind of solutions
[16:03] <zequence> Shortcuts, wherever you may find them..
[16:04] <zequence> Would be better he was working with Debian Multimedia, instead of just tweaking stuff on his own ppa IMO
[16:06] <zequence> Though he has nice ideas, and does a lot of hard work for it
[16:09] <zequence> len-dt: Ok, so I reverted back to the stock jackd2 on quantal. Started jackdbus. No PA sink. After two stops, jackdbus failed to quit
[16:09] <len-dt> Sometimes a patch for now is better than nothing.
[16:09] <len-dt> I wonder in 64 bit and 32 are different.
[16:12] <zequence> len-dt: Ok, so I got the source of jackd2 for Precise. It's basically the same jackd2 that falktx has, except falktx added the patch. orig source last updated in 2011
[16:12] <zequence> len-dt: While the quantal orig source was last updated march 2012
[16:13] <zequence> len-dt: So, what I'm going to do is make sure Debian updates their source to last commit. They will upload to Debian Experimental. Then, we sync from there. Do SRU on both 12.04 and 12.10
[16:13] <zequence> len-dt: Problem is, it'll get complicated
[16:13] <len-dt> I would test in R first if we start getting ISOs
[16:13] <zequence> falktx mentioned problems with building
[16:14] <zequence> len-dt: Sure. We can do that.
[16:14] <len-dt> Right now (for me) things work better in 12.04 than in 12.10.
[16:15] <len-dt> Right now in 12.10 if I am playing a stream through hw:1 and start jack to use hw:1, jack fails every time.
[16:16] <len-dt> I have to restart both pa and jack to be able to use jack at all after that.
[16:16] <zequence> len-dt: Why don't you make a bug report about the PA jack problem. David H would probably help
[16:16] <len-dt> in 12.04 I could do that with no problem
[16:16] <len-dt> I can do that.
[16:18] <micahg> len-dt: if it's a regression, you can tag it regression-release with the release name and I can create a task for it
[16:19] <len-dt> Ok, it will be later in the day though.
[16:21]  * len-dt has a gig to ready for.
[16:22] <len-dt> bye all.
[16:47] <ttoine> hi
[17:14] <zequence> ttoine: Hello
[19:06] <ttoine> zequence, what is the problem of Len ? I tried to redo it, and all is right for me on 12.10
[19:09] <zequence> ttoine: Are you using only one device? 
[19:14] <ttoine> no
[19:14] <ttoine> but I can test
[19:16] <ttoine> zequence, the problem is only when using one device ,
[19:16] <ttoine> ?
[19:16] <zequence> ttoine: Don't know. Haven't tried myself
[19:17] <ttoine> if he doesn't use the dbus option, a problem can happend
[19:17] <ttoine> happen
[19:18] <zequence> Right now I tried it. jackdbus grabbed the card, and PA released, even though it was using it for playing audio
[19:18] <zequence> But, no PA sink and source 
[19:18] <zequence> So, I need to restart PA, cause not all is working as should
[19:18] <zequence> Something with dbus is not working right
[19:19] <ttoine> did you install the pulseaudio-module-jack ?
[19:19] <zequence> ttoine: Yes, of course
[19:20] <ttoine> very strange. in 12.04 and in 12.10, all is working very fine on my workstation and laptop
[19:20] <ttoine> with one sound card, or two
[19:20] <zequence> Sometimes jack won't start at all. Sometimes no PA bridge. I have this happening too
[19:20] <zequence> But, restarting everything fixes it for me
[19:21] <zequence> I don't get errors after a fresh login
[19:21] <ttoine> wow...
[19:21] <zequence> I do use two devices. So, I seldom try using the same device for both jack and PA
[19:21] <ttoine> the only problem I have is that before starting jack on my firewire sound card, I need to wait half a minute or it won't work. I mean that I can't start Jack at session loging
[19:22] <zequence> Really?
[19:22] <zequence> My firewire device is weird in another way
[19:22] <zequence> I have to turn it on first, then plug the cord in. Otherwise jack won't start
[19:23] <zequence> If I plug the cord in, then start the device. jack fails
[19:23] <zequence> But, my device is slighlty experimental still
[19:23] <ttoine> what device you have ?
[19:24] <persia> zequence: HAve you compared the dmesg output between those two cases?  There might be a discovery issue (although this could be on either side, not necessarily the host)
[19:24] <zequence> focusrite sapphire pro 40
[19:24] <ttoine> oh yes, not fully supported
[19:24] <persia> How different is that from the LE?
[19:24] <ttoine> I have a small Echo Audiofire 2. Full support ! and it rocks
[19:25] <zequence> persia: Haven't compared dmesg, no. 
[19:25] <zequence> I get really nice performance from mine, so I'm pretty happy too
[19:28] <zequence> persia: I guess the LE is quite different. pro 24 and pro 40 might be similar though
[19:30] <persia> In that case, no testing on my part can help discover the issue :)
[19:34] <ttoine> oh
[19:34] <ttoine> zequence, persia I think about a point. I use the jack package from KXstudio repositories
[19:34] <ttoine> not from Ubuntu
[19:35] <zequence> ttoine: Yeah. It's the same version as on Precise, but with a patch. This patch is more recent than what jackd2 has on Quantal
[19:36] <ttoine> so perhaps it makes the difference ? falktx provide great packages, for 32bits. it is sometimes less stable for 64bits
[19:36] <zequence> ttoine: But, it may also be related to the version of pulseaudio
[19:37] <zequence> ttoine: It's the same packages as for Ubuntu, only he keeps the original source more up to date. In this case, with jackd2, he had to work a bit more
[19:37] <zequence> ttoine: Of course, he might be changing some compile options now that I think of it
[19:37] <zequence> enabling vst, and things like that
[19:38] <zequence> never mind. It's not better, just not exactly the same.
[19:41] <ttoine> ok
[19:42] <zequence> ttoine: jackd2 in kxstudio ppa fixes, or at least mostly fixes a bug which we have still on Quantal - jackdbus not quitting properly
[19:42] <zequence> That's why he has the patch
[19:55] <ttoine> yes
[19:56] <ttoine> jackdbus from kxstudio works well
[19:56] <ttoine> zequence, is it possible to have this patch in ubuntu ?
[19:57] <zequence> ttoine: I'm just in the process of trying to get the Debian source updated, so that we can get it to Raring. Then, I'd like to do a SRU on both 12.10 and 12.04 to get it there also, but it may be a bit complicated, as it seemed like building the newer jackd was not all that straight forward at least on Precise
[19:58] <ttoine> zequence, and for Q ?
[19:58] <zequence> ttoine: Remains to be seen (if you were referring to building it)
[20:01] <persia> For quantal, it likely needs to be cherrypicked: backports are unlikely to accept it, given the number of rdepends.
[20:01] <persia> (and the particular patch to be cherrypicked is not obvious from the kxstudio package content)
[20:02] <zequence> persia: No, I'd have to talk with falktx about that. He got it from nedko, I think
[20:02] <ttoine> cherrypicked ?
[20:02] <persia> If it doesn't break ABI, SRU shoudn't be that hard.
[20:03] <persia> ttoine: pulling the particular patch from the new upstream, and porting that to the git snapshot we're shipping.
[20:04] <zequence> persia: So, maybe just the patch would be preferrable on the older releases
[20:05] <persia> zequence: Very much so, yes.  Because the jack2 source package provides libraries, the backports team will likely reject it, and new upstreams require TB approval for SRUs.
[20:05] <zequence> persia: TB?
[20:06] <persia> If the patch fixes a known bug which causes significant user annoyance, applying the patch to current shipping sources can be an SRU.
[20:06] <ttoine> persia, and what about jackdmp ?
[20:06] <persia> Technical Board.
[20:06] <zequence> ttoine: jackdmp is a part of the jackd2 package
[20:06] <persia> ttoine: Same rules apply, but I have insufficient context to say anything in detail.
[20:07]  * jussi prods persia to look at PM
[20:08] <ttoine> Sometimes, I think it is too bad that we just can"t put the packages in KXstudio in our Ubuntu Studio...
[20:08] <ttoine> I mean, with an option at install, or something like that
[20:08] <zequence> ttoine: It's not totally out of the question, if falktx started working on getting some of that into Debian
[20:09] <persia> ttoine: Most of it can be done: the main issues are scheduling (kxstudio doesn't have the same freezes), and timing (kxstudio sometimes pushes things well after our release)
[20:12] <ttoine> yes
[20:12] <ttoine> and perhapt he will not see us take the "bravo" for his work
[20:14] <ttoine> he want not
[20:16] <persia> Needs discussion with falktx.  We've had such discussions before, but they usually ended in confusion, rather than resolution.
[20:23] <ttoine> I think that most of us use his repositories
[20:24] <ttoine> and it would be great to make it available for our user, in an easy way. At least for audio users
[20:25] <zequence> ttoine: There has been talk about creating a PPA for Ubuntu Studio, where we could put extra packages, not found in the main repo. But, it would defeat the purpose of being an official flavor of Ubuntu, if we'd start updating software in a PPA
[20:26] <persia> Especially since it's not actually hard to update stuff in Ubuntu: we just never bother much (which is part of why I've argued against a PPA whenever it comes up: I never understood where we'd get the motivation to keep a PPA active when we don't do so with the regular repos)
[20:30] <ttoine> zequence, is it possible to add a "activate kxstudio repositories" in Ubuntu Studio Controls (or whatever name it will be) ?
[20:31] <zequence> ttoine: No. For reasons just stated :)
[20:33] <persia> ttoine: The better solutions are either a) to work with falktx to land his work directly in Ubuntu Studio, or b) have someone act as liason to kxstudio, and help ensure all the stuff which can be in Ubuntu also lands there.
[20:33] <persia> (feel free to volunteer for b) if you like)
[20:33] <zequence> Also, I'm not entirely sure such applications as linux-sampler can not be included in some repos, like a non-free repo
[20:34] <persia> That particular case is special: most stuff can be in multiverse, but there needs to be resolution of the GPL+non-commercial conflict for linuxsampler before it can be shipped.
[20:35] <persia> My understanding from what I have read is that anyone who has a patch in linuxsampler is currently able to sue any distributor, which doesn't make distributors feel safe.
[20:36] <knome> 20:56  Unit193: [13:54:12] apm1 (~apm@unaffiliated/apm1) has quit (Quit: 
[20:36] <knome> hmm? sorry.
[20:37] <zequence> Like a GPL Porcupine
[20:43] <persia> heh, that's a wonderful simile :)
[20:43] <ttoine> or a CC-by-sa-nc
[20:44] <persia> ttoine: Except, cc-by-sa-nc is self-consistent.  The issue being that GPL doesn't allow additional restrictions, and NC is an additional restriction.
[20:45] <persia> Mind you, my information is old: maybe someone fixed thngs whilst I wasn't paying attention.
[20:47] <ttoine> a lot of users use linux sampler ?
[20:47] <persia> There's a fair number.  It is widely requested.
[20:49] <zequence> ttoine: do you know any other sampler that can play gig files?
[20:49] <zequence> It's actually very nice on Windows too
[20:49] <zequence> I just tried it as a vst instrument on Cubase a couple of weeks ago
[20:49] <persia> zequence: Isn't there a commercial product from which gig files originate, or has that become obsolete?
[20:50] <zequence> persia: Not sure. I guess there was that Giga Studio, or Giga Sampler, or something like that
[20:50] <persia> That sort of name seems familiar, although I also can't remember which is correct.  Perhaps both, as part of some series.
[20:57] <ttoine> it was a technology by tascam. but where to find who is the owner nowadays...
[20:58] <ttoine> it is the same kind of problem than VST : a bit of restricted technologies inside a lot of stuff wich could be gplised
[20:59] <persia> Actually, not at all.  There's nothing restricted at all, and for many years, it was GPL.  There was a maintainer change, and a new license statement of GPL+non-commercial, leading to it being dropped by all the distros.
[20:59] <ttoine> ok
[20:59] <persia> Someone sufficiently motivated could probably dig up an old GPL release and re-implement the newer stuff, but nobody has done that.
[21:00] <ttoine> like for cinepaint, so
[21:00] <ttoine> or gcd master
[21:00] <persia> That said, my opinion about the right solution for linuxsampler depends on the closed-source stuff: if gig files are still widely used by other software (in-box or out-of-box-embedded), then it ought get fixed.  If not, then it doesn't matter.
[21:01] <ttoine> in the kxstudio repos, I see that there are some LV2 samplers. I don't use virtual instruments, but if one of you does, can he try that ?
[21:01] <persia> Kinda: basically license confusion making it hard to distribute.  I'm not sure why folk do that: GPL+copyright assignment+commercial licensing terms gets nearly all the same benefits without the penalties.
[21:02] <ttoine> like for mysql ?
[21:02] <persia> Yep.
[21:03] <ttoine> is there a commercial version of linuxsample, since ?
[21:03] <ttoine> zequence, are you using samplers and virtual instruments ?
[21:03] <persia> Last I checked, there was a note somewhere that said that folk interested in commercial use could contact someone for alternate licensing, but I don't remember the details, and I've never heard of anyone doing so.
[21:04] <ttoine> so it is a lost project at the moment...
[21:04] <zequence> ttoine: I do use samplers sometimes. linux-sampler is one of a kind on a Linux system. There's probably others, but nothing equally advanced. It can play both gig and sfz files
[21:05] <ttoine> zequence, can you have a look at the LV2 samplers in kxstudio repos ?
[21:05] <zequence> ttoine: Perhaps you are referring to the one rnbc released not so long ago?
[21:07] <zequence> rncbc*
[21:07] <zequence> I don't use a lot of stuff myself anymore. Mostly puredata. I'm also working on my own sampler at the moment
[21:08] <zequence> ..also in puredata (which is not very good for that)
[21:16] <persia> DIgging through the repos, it seems we have specimen and sooperlooper (both a bit specialised), and all the infrastructure for linuxsampler (libraries, interface, etc.), but not the actual sampler itself.
[21:18] <ttoine> hum. composite is a fork of hydrogen and manage only hydrogen kits
[21:22] <zequence> persia: Yea. Everything but the actual linux-sampler server is standard GPL
[21:23] <ttoine> and would it be possible to contact the dev of linux sampler ?
[21:25] <zequence> Here's their faq page http://www.linuxsampler.org/faq.html
[21:25] <ttoine> yes, I am on too
[21:25] <ttoine> it is not very clear
[21:26] <zequence> http://www.linuxsampler.org/downloads.html#exception
[21:26] <zequence> I don't think Debian could be considered commercial?
[21:27] <zequence> And in the case of Ubuntu, I can't really tell. But, since one can always get permission..
[21:28] <ttoine> yes
[21:28] <ttoine> zequence, can you contact them ?
[21:28] <zequence> First step would be to get it into Debian. There is a  request for that
[21:28] <ttoine> or I can do it ?
[21:29] <zequence> Someone just needs to package it, and get it uploaded
[21:29] <ttoine> it is very strange that the linuxsampler dev don't do it...
[21:31] <zequence> ttoine: It's not always the developers themselves who package their software. Debian Multimedia Team consists of a group of people who share this job for a range of multimedia packages in Debian
[21:34] <zequence> ttoine: If you look at who maintains the packages for Ubuntu, for a lot of them you'll find: Original-Maintainer: Debian Multimedia Maintainers <pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
[21:36] <ttoine> ok
[21:39] <persia> It was in both Debian and Ubuntu for a long time, before the clarification of the license by upstream, when it was removed for both because GPL+non-commercial wasn't something we could distribute.
[21:40] <persia> It's extra tricky because both Debian and Ubuntu require that the licensing not be specific to Debian or Ubuntu, so written permission to use in Debian or Ubuntu won't help.
[21:40] <len-dt> makes sense.
[21:41] <len-dt> Both repos are designed to be used outside their own distros.
[21:42] <zequence> I still think Debian should not be affected. They have a non-free repo for things like proprietary drivers after all
[21:43] <len-dt> zequence, I wonder if it came with a licence box and an "I accept" button like the wine MS fonts?
[21:44] <len-dt> wine is on the Ubuntu servers and auto loads the fonts after being accepted after all. I don't know where the fonts them selves come from though.
[21:44] <zequence> len-dt: I think in the case of MS fonts, you get that cause not that whole package has that license, only MS fonts
[21:45] <len-dt> OK, but the fonts are a package. LS is a package. That package could come with a licence screen.
[21:46] <zequence> len-dt: YOu mean ttf-mscorefonts-installer?
[21:46] <ttoine> for some java packages, there was an EULA to accepts, too
[21:46] <ttoine> perhaps it could solve the proble
[21:46] <ttoine> problem
[21:47] <len-dt> back in a bit..
[21:47]  * len-dt is eating lunch
[21:54] <zequence> I suppose all packages called *-installer will download from a url. 
[21:55] <zequence> ttf-mscorefonts-installer gets the fonts from http://downloads.sourceforge.net/corefonts/
[21:56] <zequence> This is the url for flash-plugin-installer: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_11.2.202.243.orig.tar.gz
[22:09] <ttoine> yes
[22:09] <ttoine> perhaps we can do the same for linux-sampler
[22:10] <ttoine> I tried to do something like that with VST, a fex years ago. But Steinberg required the email of users, like when downloading from their website
[22:12] <zequence> A linux-sampler-installer would also be a linux-sampler-builder, I think. Seems like a weird solution, but if nothing else works, and that would, then why not
[22:12] <zequence> It's a bit more complicated
[22:12] <zequence> Needs build tools, and dev libs
[22:12] <ttoine> yes
[22:13] <ttoine> or perhaps the dev could provide compiled versions for 32 and 64 bits, so we can dowload them ?
[22:13] <zequence> Unless someone is willing to add *.deb packages somewhere, like their own website
[22:14] <ttoine> zequence, it will be only one package ? or a lot ?
[22:14] <zequence> ttoine: One for each arch, and release
[22:14] <zequence> At least arch
[22:14] <micahg> I would want something like that in Debian Multimedia if it's feasible
[22:15] <micahg> (i.e. not just in Ubuntu)
[22:15] <zequence> Absolutely
[22:16] <ttoine> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=linux+sampler
[22:16] <ttoine> is it possible that -installer package download from launchpad PPA ?
[22:18] <zequence> I would prefer the linux-sampler home url
[22:18] <ttoine> yes
[22:18] <micahg> -installer packages can't install debs
[22:19] <zequence> micahg: Why not?
[22:19] <micahg> maintainer scripts can't call dpkg
[22:21] <zequence> micahg: How much different would it be to just pack it in a tar file, and unpack it?
[22:21] <zequence> I mean, download a tar of the compiled files, and unpack it into the system
[22:21] <zequence> Sort of like installing a deb
[22:22] <micahg> zequence: that would mean it would have to be pre-built
[22:22] <zequence> micahg: Yea
[22:22] <micahg> and I don't think we'd want an installer installing binaries built by untrusted sources
[22:23] <micahg> anyways, I'm still not sure why it hasn't been packaged in at least Debian non-free
[22:23] <micahg> debian 561443 offers no hints either
[22:24] <zequence> Judging from that it's like someone lost interest
[22:27] <zequence> Yea, installing debs from a non distro url is not the way to do it. And besides, if they did put up debs on their website, it would just be a matter of downloading and installing manually
[22:37] <zequence> I'm getting tired apparently (forgetting why there is a system for uploading and maintaining packages for Debian). Time to log off
[22:37] <ttoine> good night.