[00:00] <BigRedS> yeah, one morning I woke up incredibly hungover in Wales and decided to put the telly on. About an hour in someone pointed out that everyone was speaking Welsh
[00:00] <mgdm> heh heh
[00:03] <bittin> http://derpy.me/nxk9U
[00:07] <shauno> okay, perhaps not that mesmerising
[00:10] <mgdm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-5hII715_s
[00:11] <shauno> now I feel old.
[08:19] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[08:20]  * TheOpenSourcerer just added another applicant to our HR system.
[08:20] <AlanBell> yay
[08:21] <Azelphur> dumb question, what's the format for having an item delivered to an apartment? is it like "Flat 3 Number 14 London Road" or "14 London Road | Flat 3" ?
[08:21] <Azelphur> | being a newline :p
[08:23] <popey> depends what the form will let you fill in :)
[08:23] <Azelphur> typical address line 1 / address line 2
[08:24] <christel> GOOOD MORNING
[08:25] <Azelphur> Amazon is being a bright cookie
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: I think the general style is to put the smallest object first. So the Flat Number, then building number
[08:25] <Azelphur> it corrected Flat 2, 10 blah road, to "Flat 2 5", sense makes none
[08:25] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: fun :)
[08:25] <popey> morning btw
[08:25] <Azelphur> morning :)
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[08:29] <Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/November/2012-11-05-082554_1184x188_scrot.png
[08:29]  * Azelphur facepalms
[08:33] <Azelphur> also for anyone who hasn't seen the 24 hour super computer build, It's pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k32Bwy9rha4
[08:53] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: Aha! Cool!
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> what? BigRedS
[08:54] <diplo> Morning all
[08:54] <andyc> Silly question: When does rc.local get run?  Is it after all other upstart scripts?
[08:54] <andyc> And morning all!
[08:55] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: your hiring
[08:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah, thanks
[08:56] <BigRedS> andyc: it's after  all the othher init scripts traditionally. I guess thatt in an  upstart syysttem it'ss after all teh upstart stuff
[08:56] <andyc> BigRedS, thanks
[09:16] <mungojerry> got no data services on o2/giffgaff at the mo
[09:16] <mungojerry> anyone else?
[09:26] <AlanBell> mungojerry: o2 is fine
[09:26] <mungojerry> oh :(
[09:26] <mungojerry> rebooted my phone
[09:26] <mungojerry> still no data
[09:26] <AlanBell> well I am tethered to my phone in basingstoke right now
[09:27] <mungojerry> it's not a local issue since i travelled into london
[09:33] <diplo> mungojerry: Anything specific, will test now
[09:35] <diplo> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Help-Ask-the-community-got-stuck/How-is-the-Service-where-I-am/ta-p/5643472
[09:35] <mungojerry> a colleague has working GG and is next to me
[09:35] <diplo> yeah mines connected, albeit only getting gprs ( but that could be my office, only use wifi here so never checked before
[09:35] <diplo> )
[09:54] <JamesTait> Good morning, all!
[09:57] <BigRedS> Good Morning!
[10:00] <mungojerry> diplo, i downlaoded the giffgaff apn app from play store, and now fixed :D
[10:06] <Laney> how does facebook know where i've been?
[10:06] <Laney> does the android app report my location to it?
[10:08] <diplo> Laney: Isn't that an option in the settings to turn that off
[10:08] <Laney> no idea
[10:08] <diplo> ah yes I've had to reset mine before I think
[10:08] <Laney> i'm new to this
[10:09]  * diplo checks
[10:10] <diplo> yeah menu -> settings
[10:10] <Laney> i found some options
[10:10] <diplo> Messenger Location Service ( Location is on ) on mine
[10:10] <Laney> gps and wifi location
[10:13] <BigRedS> Laney: there's 'tinfoil for facebook' for the paranoid-but-still-using-facebook, which I gather sandboxes it and prompts you before telling it anything
[10:13] <Laney> I'll be alright without it knowing my location
[10:42] <BigRedS> Anyone know if there is some sane way of having a computer keep updated with googlebot's IP addresses
[10:43] <popey> run apache on it and grep the logs :)
[10:44] <BigRedS> haha
[10:44] <directhex> googlebot has more than one IP address
[10:44] <dwatkins> http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=80553
[10:44] <dwatkins> doesn't give you a way to track it, but at least reverse lookups can be used to verify it's 'genuine'
[10:46] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm looking at mod_evasive exclusions
[10:47] <BigRedS> I was hoping for an A record with all the currently-valid IPs in it or something, but I think there isn't one
[10:47] <dwatkins> if you're lucky they might all be within a particular network/subnet
[10:48] <BigRedS> I think I was up to seven subnets the last time I had to do this
[10:48] <dwatkins> (considering Google's diverse geographical locations, however, I doubt that)
[10:49] <BigRedS> Ah, right, that page says at the bottom that there's no official list posted by google
[10:49] <BigRedS> Bah. Bad google! Making me do work
[10:50] <dwatkins> I'm curious, what do you want to do with its IP address ultimately, BigRedS?
[10:50] <BigRedS> a customer wants to whitelist all of them in mod_evasive
[10:52] <dwatkins> All I can think of is grepping historical server logs.
[10:53] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:53] <BigRedS> I think I'm going to craft a cronjob to do that on a few shared servers
[10:53] <BigRedS> it's bonkers that there's no official list. Doesn't play well with my laziness
[10:54] <dwatkins> perhaps they move the daemon around, too - it might run on the same servers as the other stuff they run on their hardware
[10:55] <dwatkins> I like that they have a battery on each one, makes a lot of sense: http://www.epanorama.net/blog/2009/05/07/google-efficient-data-centers/
[10:55] <dwatkins> (I'm guessing most people here have seen this already)
[11:06] <BigRedS> I've long wondered why we don't all do that
[11:07] <BigRedS> But then I've rackmounted a laptop before, so I'm suspicious of my DC-related ideas :)
[11:07] <dwatkins> My server at home is a netbook, although it has external disks which aren't powered by its own built-in battery.
[11:08] <popey> I'd love to see those new samsung arm chromebooks as builders
[11:13] <ali1234> builders?
[11:13] <ali1234> like package building? or kits?
[11:14] <AlanBell> BigRedS: rackmounting laptops makes perfect sense to me
[11:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just saw that czajkowski has been in the UK for two years. Is that all? Seems like much longer than that ;-)
[11:15] <christel> haha
[11:16] <czajkowski> oi
[11:16] <czajkowski> :)
[11:16] <czajkowski> yup 2 years ago, christel came to LHR and collected a very jet lagged me and brought me to farnham
[11:17] <AlanBell> and you have picked up the cockney accent already
[11:17] <czajkowski> eh no
[11:20] <AlanBell> dwatkins: I have no idea why all servers don't have a UPS on the low voltage side
[11:21] <dwatkins> AlanBell: good question, as I implied, I get around this by using a netbook ;)
[11:21] <christel> :D
[11:21] <AlanBell> just seems nuts that they are all on the mains side, massively more complicated and inefficient
[11:21] <dwatkins> I can understand using a UPS if there are many diverse devices which need to be kept powered, I guess.
[11:22] <dwatkins> even then it's a single point of failure, though
[11:22] <AlanBell> yeah, but the standard use-case is to keep stuff spinning when someone pulls out the wrong wire, for long enough to put it back in again
[11:22] <AlanBell> and external UPS doesn't actually help with that much, just makes more wires
[11:22] <ali1234> well here's a thing
[11:23] <ali1234> if you have a laptop with external drives and the power goes out, what happens when you have a powered netbook with unpowered drives plugged in on the IDE port?
[11:24] <ali1234> on old PATA motherboards the answer was the drive attempted to pull all it's current through the IDE cable, resulting in smoke
[11:24] <dwatkins> I don't have a PATA port on my netbook. Sounds painful.
[11:24] <ali1234> i expect SATA is immune to this
[11:24] <ali1234> but it's worth finding out
[11:25] <ali1234> i hope you at least removed the battery from the netbook anyway
[11:25] <shauno> interestingly, this is the design google uses; 12V battery on each node
[11:26] <shauno> oh, and scrolling up, I discover I'm already redundant.  nm me then
[11:26] <AlanBell> shauno: yes, it is the obvious thing to do really
[11:27] <shauno> I don't know.  they're big, heavy, and don't tend to enjoy the heat.  but it has always puzzled me why we don't use DC for the last-leg distribution
[11:27] <ali1234> cos DC is very bad over more than a couple of meters
[11:29] <shauno> well, for instance, we have a ups sat in the bottom of each rack.  so it's doing ac->dc rectification for the battery.  and then dc->ac inverter & pump because it's of that particular design.  and that AC only has to reach the top of the rack at most, before the load turns it back into 12V again.
[11:29] <AlanBell> shauno: my laptop battery is not big, heavy and is fine with moderate heat
[11:29] <BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, so you do do your ac/dc in the middle of the rack
[11:30] <shauno> seems like many wasteful steps
[11:30] <BigRedS> wastes 1u but so much heat generation happens there, so you can cool it more efficiently
[11:30] <AlanBell> oh, 12v from the UPS to the servers would make sense too
[11:31] <AlanBell> given you are not pushing too many amps over it
[11:31] <BigRedS> but the problem is that few people design whole racks
[11:31] <BigRedS> so you have to assume that it's some standard coming in, and the only real standard for powering servers is a mains supply
[11:32] <BigRedS> but if the UPS in the rack only had to power the computers, and not a conversion to AC and then back again a meter later you'd probably get a noticeable increase in uptime on battery power
[11:34] <shauno> right.  higher efficiency, and you'd get to move a heatsource & fan out of each node
[11:34] <shauno> it's a very typical design (well, 24V I think) for telcomms, but IT hates it
[11:37] <dwatkins> I think some of SGI's racks are entirely 24 Volt.
[11:42] <shauno> as BigRedS said, it's just trying to get too many people to agree on one scheme.  we have enough fun with cisco doing cooling right-to-left instead of front-to-back.  no-one agrees on anything
[11:47] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:53] <BigRedS> G'morning!
[11:54] <bigcalm> Ahoy
[11:58] <bigcalm> My my. That pot noodle has helped me get my mind back on track. Might have added too much tobasco sauce though
[12:12] <BigRedS> Hm. I think my caffeine dependency has snuck up on me again :(
[14:02] <mungojerry> has anyone run mdadm /dev/md0 --remove detached before?
[14:02] <mungojerry> i.e. disk has been marked failed, but has been pulled
[14:02] <mungojerry> so cannot remove from array
[14:11] <popey> mungojerry, not sure, I have added and removed disks lots from md arrays
[14:11] <popey> but not anymore \o/ btrfs
[14:12] <xnox> mungojerry: there is an option to "fail" a removed disk.
[14:12]  * xnox recalls it was as if --fail
[14:12] <mungojerry> it was on a live server, i was scared
[14:12] <mungojerry> i've done it
[14:12] <mungojerry> the disk got pulled after it was failed but before it was removed from the md
[14:13] <mungojerry> so the remove instruction failed because /dev/sda no longer existed
[14:13] <mungojerry> it worked
[14:50] <diplo> popey: Do you recommend btrfs ? About to buy 2 more disks for my micro box and going to do it all over again
[14:51] <xnox> diplo: advices against btrfs in precise. The one in quantal is up to date.
[14:52] <diplo> Want to reinstall the Micro server as well, running natty atm
[14:52] <diplo> Do I go for precise for long term or quantal for newness :)
[14:55] <popey> diplo, I use btrfs with 12 disks on my microserver on 12.04 using the 3.6 kernel
[14:55] <popey> Linux homeserver 3.6.0-030600rc4-generic #201209011435 SMP Sat Sep 1 18:36:00 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[14:55] <popey> that one
[14:56] <diplo> No issues ?
[14:57] <xnox> popey: did you compile btrfs-tools from source?
[14:57] <mungojerry> anyone know how i change the flame logo for xscreensaver ?
[14:58] <mungojerry> when i'm unlocking the screen
[14:58] <diplo> directhex: More that cat pic is doing my head in :D
[14:58] <directhex> :D
[14:58] <diplo> No new tweets to scrool it down :P
[14:58] <directhex> i am the master of cat gifs
[14:58] <diplo> scroll*
[14:58] <directhex> you should retweet it.
[14:58] <diplo> hah, and then it'll be in my feed for longer
[14:58] <diplo> Well at least it'll annoy someone else :D
[14:58] <popey> xnox, I used to, now I use the package in quantal which was backported
[14:58] <directhex> depends on your client
[14:58] <popey> xnox, i rarely use the tools though
[14:59] <directhex> the main thing is how crazy my feed looks with multiple synchronized retweets
[14:59] <xnox> popey: they are used to boot the box ;-)
[14:59] <diplo> Done
[14:59] <popey>  15:01:15 up 25 days,  4:20,  1 user,  load average: 2.69, 2.98, 2.86
[14:59] <popey> like I say.. rarely
[14:59] <xnox> popey: kursk:~$ uptime
[14:59] <xnox>  14:59:37 up 278 days, 55 min,  3 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.03, 0.05
[14:59] <diplo> blimey, my load is always 0.*, what do you use yours for ?
[15:00] <popey> its doing backups
[15:00] <xnox> popey: =))) i am actually scared to reboot. Cause I don't have console access.
[15:00] <popey> heh
[15:03] <diplo> yay new tweets.. no more cat.gif
[15:03] <diplo> :P
[15:04] <popey> haha, love that gif
[15:11] <gord> i like this gif https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g6qJ8ljFMpw/ThpukKr9hrI/AAAAAAAAEyo/vrI1lrAblxo/Oprahs-Bees.gif
[15:12] <dwatkins> gord: a friend of mine says 'bees' when she says goodbye, as in byee[s]
[15:12] <dwatkins> I shall send her that next time she says it
[15:13] <diplo> not seen that one before gord :P
[15:13] <ali1234> lol that's amazing
[15:13] <BigRedS> that gif makes no sense to me. Is there a reference I'm not getting?
[15:14] <ali1234> makes no sense?
[15:14] <BigRedS> oh good
[15:14] <ali1234> there's nothing to explain. it's just oprah releasing bees on the audience, and the audience crying in fear while oprah does an evil dance.
[15:15] <ali1234> it is what it is.
[15:15] <BigRedS> Ah, good
[15:15] <BigRedS> that's sort-of what I got out of it
[15:24] <mungojerry> its brilliant
[15:25] <mungojerry> i can't imagine any other situation where you'd see those scenes unless a load of bees had been released
[16:15] <Guest71979> hello
[16:18] <popey> hi
[16:26] <SuperMatt> word.
[16:26] <SuperMatt> ooh, the oxford circus light are going on in half an hour and I'm stuck in my office only a 2 minute walk away
[16:27] <dwatkins> ooh, I wonder if they're turning on the lights in Edinburgh today too
[16:27] <shauno> lights?
[16:27] <SuperMatt> christmas lights
[16:27] <dwatkins> ah, 29th Nov here in Edinburgh
[16:28] <dwatkins> I guess it must be darker down south ;)
[16:45] <mgdm> they're putting Xmas lights on on the 5th of Nov?
[16:46] <mgdm> WTF?
[16:46] <SuperMatt> this is london
[16:46] <mgdm> loonies
[16:46] <SuperMatt> it's the centre of commercialism for the country, they have to get in there early
[16:48] <gord> its below 10 degrees, must be xmas
[16:49] <mungojerry> because halloween is finished
[16:49] <gord> most people tend to wait for fireworks night to be done with at least
[16:51] <SuperMatt> weeell, it's fireworks night tonight, technically, but most places did their stuff on saturday
[16:51] <directhex> argh, fireworks night /o\
[16:51] <SuperMatt> so it makes christmas fair game
[16:52] <SuperMatt> according to oxford circus
[16:53] <mungojerry> people forget that fworks night is about the death of a terrorist and the aversion of a plot
[16:55] <SuperMatt> it's about standing up to corrupt governments
[16:55] <SuperMatt> it can be seen many ways :P
[16:57] <daubers> mungojerry: remember remember the 5th of November
[16:58]  * daubers intends to sit down with a bag of popcorn and V for Vendetta this evneing
[17:00]  * popey suspects schwuk_uds isn't at UDS anymore
[17:01] <popey> :)
[17:03] <brobostigon> what is the syntax for using pastebinit, to pastebin the output from apt-get? i cant remember.
[17:04] <mgdm> apt-get install blah | pastebinit
[17:04] <mgdm> I would guess
[17:04] <mgdm> apt-get install blah 2>&1 | pastebinit
[17:05] <mgdm> might be better
[17:05] <brobostigon> ok, thank you mgdm
[17:08] <brobostigon> mgdm: that is showing me no output, is that normal. ?
[17:09] <brunogirin> brobostigon: that's probably because all the output was redirected to pastebinit
[17:09] <brobostigon> brunogirin: i never understood all this properly.
[17:11] <brunogirin> brobostigon: the pipe redirects all output of the command before it to the input of the command after it so what you see is the output of the last command in the chain, in this case pastebinit
[17:12] <mgdm> so pastebinit should just ive you a URL at the end
[17:12] <brobostigon> brunogirin: ok, ummm,
[17:12] <brobostigon> mgdm: yep, it just has.
[17:12] <brunogirin> and 2>&1 redirects standard error to standard output so that both are combined hence everything is given to pastebinit
[17:12] <brobostigon> ah.
[17:13] <brunogirin> so now your pastebin should have everything
[17:14] <brobostigon> http://paste.debian.net/206675/  thats the error output i am getting, it isnt ubuntu, it is debian, but someone might know.
[17:14] <brobostigon> brunogirin: it did yes, :)
[17:15] <brunogirin> \o/
[17:17] <AlanBell> evening all
[17:17] <brobostigon> evening AlanBell
[17:17] <AlanBell> are people exploding things today?
[17:18] <brobostigon> i think the most that will be exploding here, is the fizz, out of a beer bottle.
[17:20] <Laney> explodingly fizzy beer?
[17:20] <Laney> sounds not very nice :(
[17:20]  * brunogirin contemplating opening the bottle that's in the fridge when back home
[17:21] <brobostigon> thats not quite what i meant, i just meant the fizz coming out of the bottle when opened.
[18:45] <zleap> AlanBell, just wondered if you have sent any cd's yet,  if I get some before friday I can take em to the next exeter lug meet,  no rush though ?  If they are en route i know to also expect a parcel from the postman :)
[19:13] <AlanBell> oh, erm I posted all the envelopes on release day
[19:14] <AlanBell> hope they have not gone astray
[19:16] <zleap> ok
[19:16] <zleap> me too
[19:17] <zleap> i know they charged me for a parcel to send that large packet back, which they didn't before,  i am sure if they had squashed it a bit more it would have gone through their envelope measuring thingy
[19:17] <zleap> and fallen under letter packet
[19:20] <zleap> i will check to see if the cheque has been cashed too, if not my packet went astray, which is annoying if it was en-route to you
[19:21] <AlanBell> oh, hang on, that was the one with the cheque for postage, I probably put that to one side . . .
[19:21] <zleap> yeah
[19:21] <zleap> ok np :D
[19:22] <zleap> at least you got it :)
[19:22] <ali1234> should have used bitcoins
[19:23] <zleap> bitcoins ?
[19:23] <AlanBell> the year of bitcoin for buying stuff is scheduled to follow the year of Linux on the desktop
[19:24] <ali1234> actually the hardest part is getting bitcoins at the moment
[19:25] <AlanBell> have they all been found yet?
[19:25] <ali1234> they will never all be found
[19:25] <ali1234> reward decays exponentially
[19:25] <zleap> looks interesting btw
[19:25] <zleap> so its like paypal only using  open standards
[19:25] <AlanBell> oh, ok
[19:26] <AlanBell> not like paypal
[19:26] <ali1234> no, it is nothing at all like paypal with open standards. that's called open transactions
[19:26] <zleap> ok
[19:26] <AlanBell> it is like pounds but based on nothing, unlike pounds which are based on gold that we used to have, but sold
[19:27] <ali1234> it's even less like that
[19:27] <zleap> ok
[19:27] <bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, Any chance that you've got any stickers or release DVD's left ?
[19:29] <AlanBell> loads of release DVDs
[19:29] <einonm> ali1234: I believe there is a date for all bitcoins being found, it's sometime in the next century though. So get them while they're hot
[19:30] <ali1234> the rate will drop to a negligable amounteventually
[19:30] <bootlkjkgf> Cool . what was the company website ( and thereby address to send a return envelope) ??
[19:32] <AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[19:32] <AlanBell> zleap: I will send you a stack of them tomorrow
[19:35] <bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, One problem :; attaining UK stamps ?? ( IOM uses the wrong stamps for this )
[19:36] <AlanBell> erm, interesting question!
[19:36]  * bootlkjkgf hears the columns of ubuntu-uk free software distribution quaking.
[19:36] <ali1234> bitcoins
[19:37] <AlanBell> bootlkjkgf: just email me your address and I will sort it out
[19:37] <bootlkjkgf> screw bitcoins I use paypal or direct transfer .. anyway this is a stamp faire now.
[19:37] <bootlkjkgf> Oh Ok/..
[19:38] <bootlkjkgf> thanx <- Manx hack
[20:07] <zleap> AlanBell, thanks
[20:12] <Myrtti> no postcard yet?
[22:51] <bootlkjkgf> Hey the guy is a Pro ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTnfpcMiuww&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[22:59] <dogmatic69> I guess the US election is settled then.. bookies have Obama 2/9 vs Romney 3/1
[23:00] <shauno> oh that's tonight?
[23:00] <dogmatic69> tomorrowish
[23:02] <shauno> ah, of course, broken timezones
[23:05] <mgdm> not broken any more, no
[23:05] <mgdm> it's no longer daylight saving time
[23:06] <shauno> oh, I consider most timeszones broken
[23:06] <shauno> fancy having to wait until 4am for Homeland just because the americans haven't figured out how London Time works ;)
[23:09] <mgdm> heh
[23:09] <mgdm> 4am? Isn't it broadcast on C4?
[23:11] <shauno> silence may be my best policy there.  or mumble something vague about the channel lineup in the republic
[23:13] <mgdm> hehe
[23:34] <AlanBell> we find out the US election result on wednesday morning right?
[23:36] <ali1234> lolno
[23:36] <ali1234> if it's a landslide then maybe
[23:36] <ali1234> but it's likely they'll be doing recounts for days if not weeks
[23:37] <AlanBell> oh probably, plus legal challenges
[23:37] <shauno> the beeb are using the term 'cliffhanger'.  which usually means messy
[23:37] <ali1234> but yeah the voting will be done by wednesday morning
[23:38] <AlanBell> I vote we get Obama if America doesn't want him
[23:39] <shauno> I'm glad NJ isn't a 'battleground state'; they've implemented voting by email in a very short timespan, which is a fascinating precedent
[23:40] <shauno> that'd get dragged through the courts for months if it was actually a crucial vote
[23:40] <ali1234> i can't see mittens winning
[23:41] <ali1234> i think turnout will be low
[23:41] <shauno> low turnout is rarely a good thing
[23:42] <ali1234> sure. but i think more Rs will stay at home than Ds
[23:42] <shauno> if all the extremists show up with no sane people to counterbalance, that's a blessing for Romney
[23:54] <bootlkjkgf> SOME GUYS DONT VOTE FOOLS !!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd7c5tQCs1I