[00:25] i just discovered final fantasy 7 has a large mod community [00:26] trouble is it's all for the PC version so unlikely to work correctly in wine [00:38] don't you run the PC version in wine? [00:42] the PC version was famous for being extremely crashy to start with [00:42] so i never tried it [00:42] i only own the playstation version anyway [00:43] heh, I remember it crashing on me when a friend lent me it [00:43] so never bothered trying it [00:43] :) [00:44] how far did you get before it crashed? [00:44] it never started [00:44] :/ [00:44] i've completed it in pcsx or epsxe [00:44] they're both basically perfect now [00:45] nice [00:45] you do have to use software graphics though [00:45] I keep meaning to try PSX emulators a go sometime again [00:45] as it is the last console I owned, so have a few games I used to love [00:45] :) [00:46] soul blade and puzzle fighter were the only two other games i had [00:47] well, the only ones i remember [00:48] last psx emulator was fine with the correct plugins [00:48] yeah [00:48] most modern emulators use a plugin system for audio, video, and controller support [00:49] sadly an open-source emulator may be best served by closed source windows-only plugins [00:49] i never had much luck with the GPU accelerated plugins [00:49] and the software graphics is pretty much pixel accurate and runs at full speed anyway [00:50] and the high res you get fromGPU plugins doesn't look that good anyway, cos the models aren't good enough [00:53] anyway, if you only play one FF game, it should be 7, cos it's the best one. === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [00:58] i've only ever half finished one FF game, that's the most i've done with the franchise [01:00] i've only finished 7 [01:01] i nearly finished 9 then i hit a showstopper bug in pcsx. it got fixed months later but by then i forgot about it [01:02] but 7 stands out because of the ways it subverts the standard plot mechanic in these games [01:05] directhex: I'm in the steam Linux beta now [01:05] :D [01:05] how'd you manage that? [01:05] Azelphur, you didn't get your buddy directhex in? :'( [01:05] I know valve people [01:05] directhex: sorry, that'd be pushing it :P [01:06] ali1234, i half finished 6, then quit when i hit an unfinishable blocker based on design flaws [01:06] wow, really? a bug in the actual game? [01:06] * Azelphur is installing tf2 [01:07] do tell. cos that's rare for an oldschool console game. unless it was the recent remake i guess... [01:12] one of the characters has a special skill where they throw an inventory item at the enemy [01:12] you threw an important key item at the enemy? [01:12] at one stage in the game, you split into several groups. managed to throw a plot-essential item from a different group when playing as the group with the tosspot in [01:13] multiple groups; shared inventory :p [01:13] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-07-011145_1000x660_scrot.png \o/ [01:13] key items usually go in a different inventory section, they do in 7, 8, 9 anyway. and you can't use them anywhere except where they are needed [01:14] but yeah that is a bit bad [01:22] whenever i play a RPG that has ethers for restoring MP i always think of that scene in fear and loathing in las vegas [01:33] squaresoft peaked when they shipped chrono trigger [01:33] yes [04:29] [Stuart Langridge] Purple map, 2012 edition - http://kryogenix.org/days/2012/11/07/purple-map-2012-edition === TheOpenSourcerer is now known as theopensourcerer [08:21] morning all [08:22] Morning all. Glas that the US managed to not elect Romney. [08:23] \Glad [08:23] popey: hi, I got in the Linux beta :D [08:23] * Azelphur is happy now [08:24] :) [08:24] ditto theopensourcerer [08:24] popey: you have dual screen right? [08:25] ya [08:25] do you get this issue with big picture mode? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/November/2012-11-07-063029_5120x1440_scrot.png [08:26] i have seen that in the past, yes [08:26] not got two screens on this machine right now [08:27] fun, yea I've seen it on a few things before, I can't run games in full screen either, it's not a major deal though as noborder and windowed mode work fine [08:27] flash player did that for ages, but recently it got fixed === mrevell_ is now known as mrevell [09:13] morning all [09:14] Morning all === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [09:28] good morning everyone. [09:34] hiya brobostigon [09:35] morning dwatkins [09:40] I'm in a good mood today, a certain country didn't destroy my faith in humanity [09:42] :) [09:42] yes, obama won. [09:47] morning [09:47] morning danfish [09:47] stayed up late watching the election. Feel somewhat tired today [09:48] anyone using amazon glacier with ubuntu? [10:05] looks handy, but I have about 500 GB to backup, which might take a while at 1 MBit. [10:08] Good morning all! :) [10:09] morning JamesTait :) [11:08] Blimey dead in 'ere today [11:09] everyone is playing with the steam beta [11:11] I'm not. D: [11:11] well maybe you should [11:11] I'm waiting for my lunch break [11:11] I'm not :( [11:12] I was away at sign up [11:12] you still can fill in the survey [11:12] and you'll still be in with a chance in the next round [11:13] not that it matters because it appears anyone can use it anyway [11:13] yeah just read that [11:13] I'm not even in Linux at the moment. :-( [11:13] Will take a look for the survey later [11:16] Oooh MS are closing msn messenger next year, I totally missed that peice of news [11:17] you would have known this if you'd listened to UUPC last night :D [11:17] first with all the news :) [11:17] "first" [11:18] I'm behind with uupc by about 6-7 episodes! [11:18] I'm glad they're switching to skype really [11:18] gosh [11:18] finally, we can all talk cross platform [11:18] It's disappointing, it will be one less protocol for people to not talk to me on [11:18] Actually let me correct that, I haven't watched/listened to ANY podcasts in a fair few months [11:18] SuperMatt: MSN had an XMPP interface, Skype does not [11:18] I know, but at least now we have an app which is open source form the off [11:18] I wish all my friends would use google chat or something [11:19] wait [11:19] not open source [11:19] I mean cross platform [11:19] But there are no third party clients that can properly talk to Skype, as far as I'm aware. [11:19] There are loads that can talk to MSN. [11:19] open protocols > cross platform apps [11:19] ejabberd++ :) [11:20] Been playing with that recently to add it into our ERP system [11:20] The fact that there's a native client is nice, but it's been neglected, and things like bitlbee have to rely on some Skype binary [11:20] * AlanBell logs into skype for the first time this month [11:20] I can't remember the last time I used Skype. [11:20] nobody ever contacts me on it [11:21] I'm normally signed in [11:21] (Not the same as using it though.) [11:21] it was popular 5 years ago [11:21] PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND [11:21] 6145 alan 20 0 737m 176m 22m R 30 2.2 86:28.49 chromium-browse [11:21] :( [11:21] I disabled it because of the constant login and logout messages I was seeing. [11:21] well, it is probably still popular. Maybe *I* was popular 5 years ago. [11:22] * Dave2 has never used Skype all that much [11:23] dwatkins, i turn those off [11:23] I was just thinking there should be an option for that, popey [11:24] its the first thing I disable [11:26] I used to use skype quite heavily in 2003-2005? [11:26] We used to use it for work webcam meetings but been using hangouts more recently as half of us use linux [11:28] I'd quite like everyone to switch to google talk too :( [11:29] I use google talk pretty much exclusively, if people aren't on it, they simply can't chat to me :) [11:30] I switch between Google Talk and Skype, although Talk's increasing. [11:31] Daviey: yeah, around that time it was the first thing that did voip and video reliably across assorted network configurations [11:37] right [13:52] This looks fun: http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/ Shame it's only on Windows/MAC [13:58] s/MAC/Mac/ [14:01] theopensourcerer, unity3d. they could rebuild in unity 4 & ship a linux binary if they wanted to [14:01] Chrome memory usage: 1.7GB :/ [14:02] Using memory is good, as long as you have some left [14:02] Using less is better, true [14:03] But not if it means things are slower [14:05] chrome has killed my DE many times [14:05] in fact, i think it's why i've had to switch to lxde [14:05] Are we talking Chrome or Chromium? [14:05] on a fast and RAMified machine [14:05] same probs with either [14:05] I don't seem to have that problem (quad core i7, 8GB of RAM) [14:06] Most of my RAM consumption comes from Eclipse :-( [14:06] tend to have around 30-40 tabs [14:07] and use some IBM stuff [14:07] I can't stand to have that many [14:07] it's work [14:07] (the nature of my) work [14:08] I think the most I ever have open would be about 15, but I tend to cull about every hour or so [14:08] see this? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ActiveDirectory [14:09] I can, yes [14:09] Yeah, Ubuntu should aim for that too [14:09] big time [14:09] agreed [14:09] The other thing it needs to sort out is HTTP proxy support [14:09] I have an idea for that [14:10] there should come a point when we can give users a choice over which OS they want, and it doesn't matter what the servers are running [14:10] Many corporate networks use PAC scripts but most apps besides browsers can't understand them [14:11] So I reckon the OS should run a proxy, and if you provide a PAC script, it configures that proxy, and everything else can just use dumb HTTP through it [14:11] theopensourcerer, it almost works in wine :) [14:12] This way you could use ISA with NTLM / SSPI or SSH + SOCKS or whatever and everything would work [14:12] there's an app that does that already [14:12] I don't think even Empathy works with PAC scripts (directing to SOCKS) and that's a core app - I've installed Pidgin just so I can run it through tsocks [14:12] popey, Are you thinking of ntlmaps? [14:12] Python program [14:12] ya [14:12] http://ntlmaps.sourceforge.net/ [14:13] well, does part of it [14:13] I use it on occasion but it's not perfect [14:13] Everything should be able to use your global proxy config [14:13] directhex, how did you know it was made with Unity 3D? [14:13] But until everything can use a PAC script, that won't happen, because it just hands the PAC URL to applications if it's configured [14:14] Much better for the OS to take the responsibility of interpreting PAC scripts and authentication, and provide a dumb HTTP proxy across a local socket for apps to use, or even make it transparent for those apps that don't understand proxies at all [14:27] awilkins: but everything should also be able to have its own [14:28] It's own config? It's own proxy arrangements? [14:28] yeah [14:29] I'm not sure of context here, but it infurates me that so much these days requires that I set up a global proxy [14:29] BigRedS, Well, that would be doable, most things that are aware of proxies and aware that the OS has proxy settings also have a manual option [14:29] On the flipside, a lot of programs are not aware of proxies, and of those that are, only a subset understand proxies other than HTTP, or PAC scripts [14:30] e.g. Ubuntu One - you'd think it was a core, flagship product, but I gave up on it and stuck with Dropbox because it doesn't understand PAC scripts or SOCKS proxies. [14:30] Empathy, likewise, doesn't work with a PAC script [14:31] So I install Pidgin and run it using tsocks [14:31] empathy doesn't support proxies at all [14:31] pidgin doesn't need tsocks - it has socks support built in [14:31] All the default apps that communicate via a network should work with all the possible proxy configurations you can feed into the OS proxy settings [14:31] Including SOCKS and PAC [14:31] probably doesn't support PAC but then i don't know what that is [14:32] is PAC like internet explorer automatic proxy config? [14:32] It's basically Javascript with a set library that lets you discover proxy config [14:32] anyway, i use pidgin because of socks5 proxy support that i use with ssh [14:32] IE auto proxy config is just "get me a PAC script from http://wpad/wpad.dat and configure the output from it" [14:33] PAC was originally a Netscape thing [14:34] One problem is that if you configure a PAC script as your proxy config it just hands the URL to the application when it asks for proxy config. If your app doesn't understand how to run Javascript PAC files, tough luck [14:35] Makes sense to take that and get the OS to do it and just return the result [14:35] But! PAC scripts are also used for load balancing. So makes even more sense to get the OS to run it's own proxy, and tell apps to use that, and the proxy runs the PAC script [14:36] And even better, if you have an app that i) doesn't do proxies or ii) doesn't understand all proxy types or iii ) Doesn't do the kind of auth the proxy demands [14:36] The OS proxy takes care of that and you just ask for sockets normally and it redirects them [14:37] Like tsocks, but more [14:37] Roll in modules for things like NTLM / SSPI (windows proxy auth) etc. [14:37] Everything benefits, Empathy works, Ubuntu One works, Ubuntu works much better in a corporate environment, 4) Profit, etc [14:40] With that kind of setup, Ubuntu One would beat Dropbox for ease of use, because Dropbox doesn't understand PAC scripts (despite there being Python libraries available for it and AFAIK the Dropbox client is written in Python) [14:40] i don't want every piece of software to use the proxy [14:41] i only want software which is blocked by a firewall to use it [14:41] ali1234, So you make it configurable on a per-app basis - we're having to mess with things to get them to use the proxy, so turn off the messing otherwise [14:42] Or write a PAC script that returns "DIRECT" for certain ports and addresses [14:42] (and presumably have a wee graphical widget for writing PAC scripts) [14:42] the thing is it's already configurable on a per-app basis, and look how well that works [14:42] i do like the idea of configuring proxy on a per port basis, almost firewall style but in reverse [14:42] ali1234, The problem isn't the apps that DO have proxy config, it's the ones that lack features [14:42] LIke even knowing about proxies at all [14:43] Or not supporting SOCKS [14:43] yeah, or the feature to tell it NOT to use the proxy [14:43] ali1234, That would be part of the OS proxy feature [14:43] ali1234, I'm thinking you'd only turn it on for things that don't have a "respect the OS proxy" setting in the first place [14:45] sounds complicted [14:46] I think it reduces the global level of complexity - no more separate config for all those apps, no more pestering them with bug fixes to include SOCKS support [14:46] No more apps that don't work because they don't grok PAC scripts and you have to read it and configure them manually and then change it when you move offices [14:48] it puts all the complexity in one place [14:49] there is infact already software that does this [14:50] it's a socket wrapper library. when program asks for a socket it transparently sends it through the proxy you configured [14:50] ali1234, Yup, there are things like ntlmaps that will do Windows proxy auth for you and be a local proxy (but no PAC scripts) [14:50] I think what it lacks is a single, standard, integrated version that works with the rest of the desktop platform [14:51] Integration and simplicity is one of the big things that Microsoft scores points on [14:51] And Apple [14:52] lol [14:52] Every time you go "Ah, but for THIS app, you do THIS" to a newbie, their affection for Linux dies inside a little [14:52] ever tried to connect an apple machine to a corporate VPN? [14:52] ali1234, Ok, I didn't mean specifically on proxy support for Apple [14:52] that simplicity is not a positive aspect [14:52] I just meant the "just works" impression you get from their products [14:52] i've never got that impression [14:52] (which I don't own or use, so I could be wrong) [14:53] i get the impression it "just works" as long as all you want to do is hand more money over to apple [14:53] they are just surrounded by a reality distortion field [14:53] other than that it is basically designed to fail [14:53] Well, it may just be the way they sell them, but it's obviously attractive or it wouldn't sell :-) [14:54] Arrgh, why does the VPN configuration forget my group password even though it's in the configuration entry? [14:54] i dunno. ever tried to connect a windows 8 machine to a VPN btw? [14:54] Seems to be a regression of a bug from 2007 *headdesk* [14:54] they made the wizard really hard to find [14:55] ali1234, No, we have Cisco VPN [14:55] if you search in the metro thing you won't find it [14:55] ali1234, And we're just migrating to Win7 at present, so most of us are still on XP [14:55] you have to search for control panel first and then go through the old style interface [14:57] i only work with small businesses [14:57] I work for the NHS [14:57] The central IT project [14:57] We only ditched IE6 this year [14:57] businesses with <20 people where they use whatever software came with the laptop they each personally decided to buy [14:58] Heh, we have a huge IT department that wants us to move to a model where we only install software they approve of [14:58] you have it easy with your centrally managed systems [14:58] And getting a new app approved costs £2,000 [14:58] BYOD is a PITA [14:59] i have to learn everything [14:59] i can't say "sorry that's not supported" [14:59] Agreed, but locked-down-to-the-max is really counter-innovative [14:59] Want to try processing your data with Cygwin and some shell scripts / awk / grep / sed? Sorry, you're not allowed Cygwin. [15:00] ha [15:00] i wish the people i support even knew what cygwin was [15:00] I work in stealth mode - because my Linux system isn't detectable by their Windows management software, it doesn't exists. [15:00] normally i get requests like "dave has made this cool excel spreadsheet and it doesn't work on my mac, can you convert it?" [15:01] "No, do it as a LibreOffice Calc sheet and then it will work on either" probably isn't a palatable answer [15:01] not at all [15:01] Bloody VBA [15:01] *spit* [15:02] it's not even the VBA [15:02] As the technical crew, we get all the VBA / Access / Excel abominations that people think up delivered to our door in a basket with a note that says "Please will you care for this application and raise it as your own" [15:02] Sharepoint *spit* [15:03] Whoever thought up the great idea to make Sharepoint support Access as a front end should be killed. [15:03] Sharepoint data tables have one numeric format, and it's floating point. [15:03] Foreign keys - what's that?? [15:03] yeah i don't even have to deal with that because none of the companies i have worked for has even had a central server of any kind [15:04] unless you count their hosted email [15:04] which they very much use as a file sharing platform [15:05] passing around a word document with annotations is commonplace [15:05] Yup [15:05] I hate that [15:05] then they send it to me and i ruin it by saving it in open office. lol [15:05] As soon as you mail documents around, it's a revision control nightmare [15:05] not to worry, they have 1,000,000 slightly different copies attached to various emails [15:06] And they try and design things this way *sob* [15:06] well the alternative is to try to coral all their different platforms onto a VPN or something [15:06] with zero budget of course [15:07] the good side of this is they are very receptive to open source solutions [15:09] as long as they don't have to actually use or know about them, basically [15:10] so a linux VPN + fileserver is fine, as long as it works with every version of windows ever made, and mac, and all smartphones and tablets [15:11] one good thing about this model is then never get a total system outage due to a virus on the network [15:11] it's so mixed that something always keeps working [15:12] Heheh [15:12] but the downside is you can never be sure what will be working today [15:12] Whereas we get stupid-assed decisions like "Hey, lets use Exchange as an email server for a million users!" [15:12] yeah they loooooove exchange [15:13] cos it works everywhere [15:13] Mail quotas numbered in megabytes are so last century. [15:13] but with few users it's not a probleem [15:13] and it's hosted anyway so even if it was it would be someone else's problem [15:14] Well, we have the new cabinet office directive to consider OSS solutions wherever possible and justify why we are not using them now [15:14] Well, open data standards [15:16] Heck , they even published the document as ODT (alongside Word Doc and PDF) [15:16] http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/Open-Standards-Principles-FINAL.odt [15:16] Notable that it's the smallest file [15:17] no plain text? [15:17] html? [15:17] No [15:17] boo [15:20] msg NickServ identify twager [15:20] oops [15:21] you might want to change your password [15:21] and also get an irc client that understands services [15:21] hunter2 [15:22] :) [15:25] What do people use for distributed and offline-accessible todo lists? I've been using tomboy/sparkleshare for a while, but I seem to spend more time making it resemble a todo list than I do getting stuff done [15:25] i use tomboy, but there's GTG ? [15:25] * popey uses tomboy [15:26] * BigRedS looks at GTG [15:26] "a notepad and pencil" [15:27] yeah, it got wet [15:27] http://gtg.fritalk.com/ [15:27] getting a new one might turn out to be simplest... [15:27] i'm actually using tinyissue for this [15:27] https://github.com/mikelbring/tinyissue [15:27] it really is tiny [15:28] also i sent in a patch and it was accepted in under 10 minutes [15:28] Oooh [15:28] But I'd like an easily-offline-accessible one [15:29] android phone? [15:29] well offline *or* distributed. pick one [15:29] yeah, but that's still online :) [15:29] I want both! Basically, Tomboy but with priority/ordering capabilities [15:29] for offline use a notepad [15:29] HTML5 local storage [15:30] does owncloud do it? [15:30] I mean, anything I can point at a filesystem's good [15:30] seems to do everything [15:30] also, if you write in the notepad in pencil, it will survive getting a bit damp [15:30] 'cause that I can distribute with sparkelshare or something, but I'm less sure about gitting MySQL data files... :) [15:30] BigRedS, a text document in dropbox / u1? [15:31] this ^ [15:31] yeah, I think that'll be it [15:31] this is same as tomboy [15:31] but not dropbox/u1. use git, because then it's actually distributed [15:31] I just stumbled across todo.txt which is basically that but markdowned [15:31] yeah, I'm using sparkleshare now [15:31] well, dropbox/u1 means you can easily use phone/tablet/pc/web etc [15:31] (though not really markdown) [15:31] as they have clients for most platforms [15:32] Freemind + Dropbox for me [15:32] got a symbian u1 client yet? [15:32] pass [15:32] aquarius, ^ [15:33] photo sync is actually the only thing i use [15:33] phones tend to not have plain text editors anyway [15:34] so you could put your todo list in it and get it on the phone, but not view or edit it [15:34] unless you can find an app and seriously who can be bothered with that? [15:34] most of what's on my todo list requires a computer of some sort anyway [15:34] as in one with a keyboard and a proper screen [15:34] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.madgag.agit&hl=en [15:35] yes, very much so [15:35] and in my case, an internet connection [15:35] either that or it requires none of the above in which case the notepad works fine [15:36] yeah, I suppose those are two distinct enough lists. Todo.txt looks fairly ideal, actually. Really tempted to write a bunch of scripts for talking to calendars and stuff [15:36] i'm thinking of writing a android todo list that uses plaintext/markdown/git as a backend [15:37] but i probably won't do it [15:39] haha [16:12] If I've a volume that I can see mounted in the GUI file browser thing, how do I find out which device it is and where it's actually mounted? I'm clicking around a mounted SD card but /media/avi/ is empty.... [16:18] which version are you running? [16:18] you can find out where something is mounted by typing mount at the command line [16:18] I know [16:18] But I don't know what Gnome calls that [16:19] 1210 [16:19] 12.10 [16:19] it may be in /run/user/BigRedS [16:19] I think that's one thing that's been steadily getting worse for a few releases. You used to be able to do it by going back and forward a few times and eventually ending up having browsed to the mount point rather than the //computer/SDCard or whatever [16:20] /run? Nothing there... I've just pulled the sd card out now, though, and there's an obvious sda so I can do it the old fashioned way :) [16:21] I'm actually confused about what you're doing :P [16:22] When I have a removable volume plugged in it shows up as some human-friendly name in the file browser. I want to know which actual device this is. Without unpluging it and plugging it in again and watching dmesg or stuff like that [16:22] it *must* be buried somewhere in this GUI, surely [16:22] yeah, you should be able to find it in disks [16:22] aha, was about to suggest dmesg [16:22] as in the application called disks [16:23] yeah disks was my next one [16:23] Ah, I can get the mountpoint out of the properties apparently [16:23] hahahaha, no [16:23] they've all got '/media/avi' as their location, but none say which directory under that they're mounted at [16:24] it'll be named with the Volume name [16:24] as listed in the properties [16:24] yeah, they're in disks, but disks doesn't use the names that the file browser does [16:25] that sucks :/ [16:25] ah yeah, I can click through each device and check for partitions on it to see which one has that label [16:25] Suddenly, D:/ isn't looking so bad [16:26] at least there everything uses the same name for it... [16:38] I find labelling filesystems helps a lot [16:38] Instead of some short hex ID the mountpoints then get named for their label [16:39] do they? [16:39] I gave up on using labels because everything seemed to prefer UUIDs [16:39]