[09:42] <teknico> buongiorno
[11:56] <bac> thanks for the review frankban
[11:56] <frankban> bac: my pleasure
[11:58] <bac> mattuk1972: i've landed your CSS button suggestions for deploy and cancel.  thanks for helping to get the colors right and spotting that text shadow.  have a look at http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/
[12:02] <mattuk1972> bac: nice one -will take a look when i get a mo
[12:03] <bac> mattuk1972: also, i talked to jovan yesterday about some question about the charm search results panel.  he was going to follow up with you.  let's chat about it when you have some time.
[12:04] <mattuk1972> sure -ill have some lunch and ping you
[12:04] <bac> i'll be here
[12:18] <bac> just noticed the codereview bot has been sending me G+ chat messages.  has that been happening a long time?
[12:44]  * benji fires up the coffee maker.
[13:03] <tveronezi> bcsaller.... I am reviewing you code.
[13:36] <gary_poster> tveronezi, bcsaller hi.  I was happy to see that tveronezi had a pre-imp on the code minification/aggregation branch.  It turns out benji and I had a shared observation/request that went against the pre-imp call discussion.  benji and I felt that the build tool belonged in the top-level bin directory, while tveronezi said that Ben asked to move the file into app/assets.  That seems like an odd choice to me, because 
[13:36] <gary_poster> the app is what we are supposed to serve, and this file is a build tool.  I thought it might be a good idea to talk that through so we understand where we are all coming from.  We could do that on a hangout or here.
[13:37] <gary_poster> I also was surprised to get pushback on trying to get the server simpler and the code tree we develop and debug more like what we intend to ship
[13:38] <gary_poster> an old saying benji and I have referred to for years is "fly what you test and test what you fly"
[13:38] <gary_poster> and if our goal is to ship static code, we should be moving ever closer to that in our dev environment, not farther
[13:39] <gary_poster> IMO
[13:39] <benji> +1
[13:40] <gary_poster> So, bcsaller and tveronezi, maybe let me know when you are both available and we can have a hopefully quick hangout
[13:41] <bcsaller> gary_poster: the build tool was supposed to go in lib and the assets in assets
[13:42] <tveronezi> gary_poster, benji, bcsaller: Ok... moving file...
[13:42] <gary_poster> bcsaller, ah!  ok.  I'd be much happier with that.  I'd still vote for bin more than lib, but I have much less of a philosophical concern with that :-)
[13:44] <bcsaller> if it was to go in bin I'd remove the .js from the name and add #!/usr/bin/env node at the top. I don't recall if the file exported any methods nodejs style though so it might not have had any reuse potential as it last stood
[13:45] <gary_poster> yeah that would make sense.  If it had reusable bits that would be fine.  In an ever more perfect world, I'd say have a bin file with a small shell that imports code from lib that has been tested nicely
[13:46] <gary_poster> even if it is not reusable, the lib code would be more naturally testable, I think
[13:46] <gary_poster> I'll say something like that in a follow-up review
[13:56] <mattuk1972> Hi gui'ers - assets layout guide and preview for notifications indicator have been uploaded to g drive
[13:57] <gary_poster> bcsaller, ^^^ thanks mattuk1972!  do you want review from us now?  Or what would be good now?
[13:58] <mattuk1972> gary_poster: the style is lifted directly from suru notifications -so if you guys are happy with what I've delivered its good to go
[13:58] <gary_poster> cool
[13:59] <mattuk1972> let me know
[14:00] <gary_poster> bcsaller, looks good to me for the growl-style notifications.  Is that all you were looking for, or were you also hoping for a design of the notifications drop-down?
[14:01] <bcsaller> gary_poster, mattuk1972, looking at the previews now
[14:02] <bcsaller> gary_poster: Yeah, the drop down and the 'view all page', The view all page has never seen any UX or design.
[14:03] <gary_poster> frankban, I am in the hangout from the calendar.  no rush, join when you are ready.  
[14:03] <gary_poster> bcsaller, cool.  So, we can make a card for growl notifications based on what mattuk1972 has provided, but we need to ask him for the designs of the other elements as well?
[14:04] <mattuk1972> yea i just did the pop up now but was going to move onto the alert panel next
[14:05] <bcsaller> The drop down doesn't include things like a limit on number to show or if we should include a scroll bar. I'm not even sure where we are with the growl style stuff. The design looks nice for growl, but I was never convinced it solved a problem at the UX level
[14:05] <bcsaller> its not clear to me if those persist till the user sees them or what
[14:05] <bcsaller> and what if many errors occur at once
[14:06] <bcsaller> I appreciate the problem that the current red icon doesn't tell the user enough.
[14:06] <bcsaller> If resolution around this was reached I might have forgotten, but I don't feel clear on it
[14:19] <mattuk1972> as far as i can tell from the ux -they just appear for a set amount of tim and then fade away 
[14:21] <mattuk1972> i think they serve a purpose - if you had a lot of units in a module and one more went wrong - it would not really be brought to your attention that another error had happened  without this kind of notification - also if an error happens outside of your field of view?
[14:24] <mattuk1972> bac: hi - reviewed your layout and i noticed something that I missed I'm my layout (sorry) its just a single pixel line thats missing from under the cell with the button in it - it should echo the spec I sent to frank ban in that respect - that gives it a small drop shadow
[14:25] <bac> mattuk1972: ok, i'll have a look
[14:26] <mattuk1972> shout me if its not clear
[14:33] <gary_poster> mattuk1972, bcsaller, sorry, was on call.  I think the growl notifications serve a purpose and are a significant improvement, particularly as a standard way to give mostly-immediate feedback.  If jovan and mattuk1972 are happy with them then I think we should proceed.  I can imagine a lot of polish we could talk about in the future--for instance, if there's no activity on the page then notifications might not start 
[14:33] <gary_poster> to time out, and if you have more than N notifications at once then they are collapsed and turned into a link to the full notifications page.  However, we can add those, or other changes, if we get user feedback about them.  So bcsaller, unless you think Kapil is going to reject this for some reason, I think we ought to treat it as commissioned.
[14:33] <gary_poster> TBH, I think this might be moot in the short term: we are going to switch to a deployment story next week. However, depending on what story we choose after that, we'll see.
[14:34] <bcsaller> gary_poster: I think Kapil would approve it and the design does look good
[14:34] <gary_poster> ok cool bcsaller, thank you.  I'll majke bug and card then
[14:50] <bac> mattuk1972: i'm confused as to what you're referring to.  is it the charm configure panel with the cancel and deploy buttons that needs the extra line below it?
[14:50] <mattuk1972> yes - ill send you some annotations -1 min
[14:51] <bac> ok
[14:51] <bac> mattuk1972: regarding the alternating colors, that's already done and on staging
[14:51] <mattuk1972> bac: ok cool - jovan just told me you needed it
[14:52] <bac> the alternating colors are very subtle.
[14:58] <mattuk1972> it should be in tabular info - doesn't need to slap you in the face but just helps to scan cells
[15:02] <gary_poster> teknico, in hangout from calendar
[15:02] <gary_poster> no rush
[15:03] <teknico> gary_poster, is it ok in half an hour?
[15:04] <gary_poster> teknico, absolutely. My fault for changing time without checking with you.  (Wanted to make sure we had enough time given new daily call time)
[15:04] <teknico> gary_poster, oh, did the time change? I got no email
[15:05] <gary_poster> teknico, do you want me to ping you then? or you'll join when you are available?  
[15:05] <gary_poster> yeah, sorry, I thought I asked for notifications to be sent but maybe did it wrong
[15:05] <teknico> gary_poster, no need, thanks, I'll be there in a while
[15:05] <gary_poster> cool
[15:07] <frankban> I appreciate border-radii, (latin is an undead) even if I usually use plural names for lists (and I don't really know what ~"6px / 7px" means). What do you think about refactoring border-radius directives into a single mixin in the css? I am going to do that. 
[15:08] <gary_poster> frankban, because we are having to do the same thing over and over again?
[15:08] <frankban> gary_poster: yes, each time we want something rounded we have to add 3 css rules
[15:10] <gary_poster> frankban, and for fun: ~"..." means "LESS! Don't touch this!" That's important because otherwise LESS thinks you want it to do math and so 3px / 6px would be converted to 2px.  We actually want the slash: it lets us make an ellipse (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/CSS/border-radius is one explanation)
[15:10] <gary_poster> frankban, single mixin: sounds great, thank you
[15:11] <frankban> gary_poster: ah! cool.
[15:12] <gary_poster> :-)
[15:13] <gary_poster> tveronezi, you available for a hangout?
[15:13] <tveronezi> yeap.
[15:14] <mattuk1972> bac: sent you a little annotation of what i meant
[15:16] <bac> thanks mattuk1972
[15:30] <teknico> gary_poster, I'm there, no rush :-)
[15:53] <bac> hi mattuk1972 i've made that changes and the branch is landing now.
[15:53] <bac> mattuk1972: did you look at the Cancel and Deploy buttons?
[15:58] <gary_poster> bac bcsaller benji frankban Makyo mattuk1972 teknico tveronezi call in 2
[16:01] <mattuk1972> I'm going to duck out today
[16:01] <gary_poster> cool
[16:12] <bac> gary_poster, benji: could benji and i swap our 1:1 call times?  currently mine extends past my EOD
[16:13] <benji> bac: hi
[16:13] <gary_poster> bac, benji fine by me.  can also move everything back half an hour
[16:13] <bac> benji: uh, it is 4:30 AST so that would be 3:30 EST
[16:13] <bac> benji: when was your old one?  an hour before?
[16:13] <gary_poster> or which is not even benji's time zone ;-)
[16:14] <benji> I have transended time zones.
[16:14] <bac> benji: you should switch to mars time
[16:14] <benji> heh
[16:14] <bac> they have a watch for that now
[16:15] <benji> My kids already think I am crazy because my phone uses a 24 hour clock.
[16:18] <bac> gary_poster: i changed our call on the calendar but it wouldn't let me move benji's
[16:19] <gary_poster> bac, so you and benji switched?
[16:19] <benji> yep
[16:19] <bac> gary_poster: yeah,
[16:19] <gary_poster> your call ok
[16:20] <gary_poster> ok done
[16:25]  * bac <- lunch
[16:25] <Makyo>  /me <- vet
[16:25] <Makyo> Dumb.
[16:25] <Makyo> Well, whatever, you all get it :)
[16:30] <frankban> gary_poster: re charm config panel: do you suggest leaving the "use config file" button inside service settings, and make the form disappear on upload? another option could be the button outside and the whole settings section disappearing on upload
[16:33] <gary_poster> frankban, I like the button inside the section because they are equivalent but I'm happy to defer to your judgement
[16:34] <frankban> gary_poster: ok thanks
[16:34] <gary_poster> welcome
[16:43] <tveronezi> lunch...
[17:37]  * tveronezi now knows how to refers to himself in the third person :)
[17:45] <benji> heh
[18:39] <benji> UPS, USPS, and FedEx deliveries today.  I think that is a new record.
[18:44] <gary_poster> benji, replied to your add-rel-improvements email.  Thank you!  I gave extremely detailed step-by-step action plan for your enjoyment
[18:44] <benji> gary_poster: heh, thanks
[18:45] <benji> gary_poster: re. updating rietveld, I did another "lbox propose" but it just created a new review.  What is the right way to send an update?
[18:45] <gary_poster> I think you have to do -cr again benji
[18:45] <bac> i thought you did propose -cr again
[18:45] <bac> too
[18:46] <benji> this is what I ran: lbox propose -cr -v -for=lp:juju-gui
[18:46] <gary_poster> :-/
[18:46] <bac> so on env view, it looks like the status bulls eye doesn't get redrawn when error states change
[18:46] <gary_poster> dunno
[18:47] <bac> mean to say, it deployed with lots of red and yellow, i removed all of the errored units, and the circle of doom is still red and yellow
[18:47] <benji> gary_poster: re. step-by-step instructions: LOL
[18:48] <gary_poster> :-)
[18:57] <Makyo> bac, does the unit count in the center change?
[18:57] <Makyo> Or is it still the old count?
[18:58] <bac> no it changes
[18:59] <Makyo> Weird...both of those are rendered at the same time.  Wonder if it's not redoing the aggregates or something.
[18:59] <bac> Makyo: and two relations between the same services are overlaid -- which i'm sure you're aware of
[19:00] <Makyo> bac, Yeah, that's still outstanding work..
[19:09]  * Makyo lunches.
[19:16] <gary_poster> tveronezi, I'm ready for a call follow-up whenever you are
[19:17] <tveronezi> ok...
[19:17] <gary_poster> and I only have 13 minutes actually so soon would be good :-P
[19:17] <tveronezi> now. :)
[19:17] <gary_poster> cool
[19:31] <bac> gary_poster: ping
[19:32] <gary_poster> yeah hey bac almost 2 or 3 more
[19:48] <bac> gary_poster: 2 or 3 more what?
[19:48] <gary_poster> bac, emus
[19:49] <bac> how long is an emu?
[20:30] <benji> gary_poster: call?
[20:30] <benji> I /think/ this is the new time.
[20:30] <gary_poster> benji, in a shocking turn of events, I am ready for you in the chat room as specified in the calendar, at approximately the correct time
[20:31]  * benji looks for the URL.
[21:40] <gary_poster> tveronezi, check in @ juju-ui?
[21:41] <tveronezi> ok.
[22:34]  * Makyo dogwalks