[00:10] <genii-around> The amd64+mac is also for non-Mac 64bit install?
[02:15] <ScottK> yofel: Not as far as I know.  I think component mismatches is your best bet if you can find someone that saves them (I don't).
[02:25] <pedahzur> Where would I go to check on the launchpad build queue? (specifically the 4.9.3 stuff from https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports)  I see the list on the right that shows pass/fail, but it doesn't show pending.
[02:26] <pedahzur> Also found https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/backports/+builds but that looks like just pass/fail again.
[02:29] <ScottK> launchpad.net/builders
[02:58] <robtygart> Is Kubuntu 13.04 out for testing yet? 
[05:15] <pedahzur> ScottK: Thanks.
[11:09] <apachelogger> afiestas: bug 1069333
[11:29] <afiestas> apachelogger: can you link that to bugs.kde.org ?
[11:29] <afiestas> I will need some feedback to fix that
[11:29] <apachelogger> afiestas: one can only link from kde to launchpad
[11:30] <apachelogger> I can file you one on bko with the url to launchpad though if that helps
[11:43] <kubotu> feed runtime-bugs had 14 updates, showing the latest 3
[11:43] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [979647] nepomukservicestub crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_cond_wait@@GLIBC_2.3.2() @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/979647 (by dysmann)
[11:43] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [980564] kcmshell4 crashed with AttributeError in maintenance_command(): 'GUI' object has no attribu... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/980564 (by Manfred Tillmanns)
[11:43] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [981466] nepomukservicestub crashed with SIGSEGV in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal() @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/981466 (by igor)
[12:16] <BluesKaj> Hey all
[12:46] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [972106] nepomukservicestub crashed with SIGSEGV in libraryPathMutex() @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/972106 (by vongoldi)
[12:46] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1035883] drkonqi crashed with SIGABRT in qt_message_output() @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1035883 (by R3vo tester)
[12:46] <kubotu> ::runtime-bugs:: [1071453] Dolphin doesn't store samba share password @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1071453 (by Pascal Korz)
[13:09] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1074978] [kubuntu 12.10] multiple pages per sheet options makes printer hang @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1074978 (by damahevi)
[14:38] <Quintasan> Uh
[14:38] <Quintasan> much better
[14:44] <Quintasan> yofel_: AFAIK jaintor in launchpad is borken
[14:46] <Quintasan> yofel_: bug 1071562
[14:46] <Quintasan> jaintor magic
[14:51] <yofel__> Quintasan: uh, the janitor has been broken for a week now
[14:52] <Quintasan> yofel_: I blame launchpad for every bad thing that falls upon us
[14:55] <yofel__> Quintasan: well, dunno. Feel free to stuff something into our PPA's though. Then you can go and tell the admins that we need more space. Limited offer
[14:55] <Quintasan> I somehow get the idea that this won't work
[14:57] <yofel__> building in that armhf pbuilder of mine doesn't work because automoc4 segfaults btw. Didn't yet have time for more in-depth debugging.
[14:58] <Quintasan> >automoc4
[14:58] <Quintasan> oh crap
[14:59] <yofel__> well, it works on hardware, so it sounds like a qemu issue
[15:03] <Quintasan> I blame LP
[15:03] <Quintasan> Works every time
[17:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: perhaps you want a go at closing bug 1074807
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> he's setting the policy wrong
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> needs to be <allow_active>yes</allow_active>
[17:49] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:49] <apachelogger> I'd not tell him though :P
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> too late
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> it'd be nice if that polkit kconfig module was being maintained
[17:51] <apachelogger> what would be nice when users woud not use launchpad bugs like support forums :P
[17:51] <JontheEchidna> that too
[18:02] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: btw, I sent a patch for the leak you found to ye olden APT mailing list
[18:03] <JontheEchidna> we'll see what they say
[18:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna++
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> you can really tell that the APT library was written for single-shot things like apt-get
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> after a commit, you have to throw everything away and rebuild all your dependency caches
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> (apt-get doesn't have to worry about that, any further operations, you start apt-get again)
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> leaks of 5MB in basic dependency error handling stick around for 10+ years
[18:07] <JontheEchidna> (apt-get users wouldn't notice, it would just get run once)
[18:07] <JontheEchidna> it's all kinds of horribleness designed for another decade :P
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> I'd take a stab at writing my own library if dpkg dependency resolution wasn't so scary
[18:09] <JontheEchidna> the sad thing is, I could bitch all day about APT, but in the end it provides a better user experience than the alternatives...
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> that's why I stuck with K/Ubuntu
[18:21] <apachelogger> software :D
[19:33] <SteveRiley> yofel: hmm... nexus 7 installer now appears to understand 32 GB -- http://i.imgur.com/swvdw.png
[19:34] <SteveRiley> did you see this option when you tried?
[19:34] <yofel> ype
[19:34] <yofel> *yep
[19:34] <SteveRiley> nice
[19:34] <yofel> I didn't check what that does though. (Or why they can't just use resize2fs)
[19:35] <xnox> ScottK: are you happy to drop CLI ndiswrapper utils from kubuntu seeds? kernel module is not shipped so they are useless...
[19:35] <SteveRiley> well i will let you know what happens when this finishes
[19:35] <yofel> SteveRiley: it works, I can tell you that much ;)
[19:35] <yofel> xnox: what's wrong with the module? Unsupported?
[19:36] <xnox> yofel: there is nothing wrong with the module. it's not shipped on the CDs, but the utils are.
[19:36] <xnox> yofel: so you need network to get the dkms module & you can as well get the utils.
[19:36] <yofel> oh, that sounds useless indeed
[19:53] <xnox> Riddell: you ok with dropping ndiswrapper utils? 
[19:53] <xnox> ^^^
[19:54] <yofel> xnox: he's on vacation
[19:55] <xnox> yofel: fair enough =))))
[19:56] <yofel> xnox: is there any way to build the module from the current live disk?
[19:56] <yofel> I'm wondering what people would do that need ndiswrapper and only have wireless
[19:57] <xnox> yofel: it's not on the live disk, so you cannot do it offline with live disk. But if you have network you can install dkms module over the network and it should persist in the install.
[19:57] <BluesKaj> buy some ethernet cable I guess :P
[19:58] <xnox> _no change_ if they only have wireless, they are already been screwed in precise & quantal. Did they complain?
[19:58] <yofel> well, if you can't build the module there's no point to have the userspace stuff on the disk
[19:58] <xnox> exactly my point =)
[19:58] <yofel> feel free to drop it, I doubt anyone would mind
[19:58] <yofel> either that or add the dkms package ot the image
[20:02] <xnox> ack.
[20:07] <SteveRiley> yofel: 32 GB detected, no resize2fs required.
[20:08] <yofel> yeah, but I'm wondering how they do that, as Quintasan said that there is a size limit when flashing
[20:11] <xnox> it's a sparse image
[20:11] <yofel> aaah
[20:11] <xnox> it's 32gb is size, but actually it's a 678MB tarball.
[20:11] <SteveRiley> at UDS, they told us there were images available. i suspect they figured out how to build the 32 GB image within the size limit
[20:12] <xnox> http://hwe.ubuntu.com/uds-r/nexus7/
[20:12] <xnox> &
[20:12] <xnox> mfisch blog post on ubuntu-planet =)
[20:12] <SteveRiley> right. the question they didn't have an answer for was whether the 32 GB image would shrink to a small enough tarball
[20:12] <xnox> clearly it did, as it's available for download.
[20:12] <SteveRiley> apparently they in fact did answer that question subsequent to uds
[20:12] <yofel> and works
[20:13] <yofel> now I need to get this stupid pbuilder to work
[20:13] <yofel> hm
[20:13] <yofel> I'll first make a scratch repo
[20:18] <SteveRiley> is the plasma-active stuff of sufficient quality for me to run tasksel kubuntu-active on this thing? or is this what you're working on now, yofel?
[20:18] <SteveRiley> can't stand unity, ugh
[20:18] <yofel> ask Quintasan, I only know there are issues. At least install plasma-active by hand as well to make sure it's installed
[20:19] <yofel> the quantal stuff hasn't gotten much love
[20:19] <yofel> NOW I'm trying to find out how we can make armhf packages and share them
[20:19] <yofel> as we can't get a PPA
[20:19] <yofel> setting up a shared repo isn't the hard part there :/
[20:20] <SteveRiley> well, apt-get install kubuntu-active gives you nothing, as that package is -- yes -- empty!
[20:20] <SteveRiley> but afiestas said it worked with tasksel
[20:20] <SteveRiley> weird
[20:20] <afiestas> I did what?
[20:20] <afiestas> *I said what?
[20:21] <SteveRiley> didn't you get kubuntu-active working with tasksel?
[20:21] <afiestas> I don't know what tasksel is
[20:21] <SteveRiley> how did you get plasma active on your nexus 7
[20:22] <SteveRiley> maybe it was quintasan who said that using the task worked, but not via apt-get
[20:23] <SteveRiley> i don't remember now. sigh :(
[20:23] <afiestas> aaaa
[20:23] <afiestas> using task yes
[20:23] <afiestas> apt-get install kubuntu-active^
[20:23] <afiestas> didn't knew that was called tasksel
[20:23]  * afiestas is a packaging nub
[20:25] <SteveRiley> it's linux. if there's one way to do a thing, there's more than one :)
[20:26] <afiestas> that's our cancer that will eat us alive if we don't react
[20:26] <afiestas> but anyway
[20:29] <apachelogger> afiestas: that is not a tasksel
[20:29] <apachelogger> tasksel is a part of the debian-installer that does what a meta package does
[20:30] <apachelogger> i.e. a task is comprised by a number of packages that will be installed to fullfill the task
[20:33] <apachelogger> oh and tasks support evaluated listing... e.g. a task may list ~pstandard which essentially means that every package with the priority standard would get installed as part of this task without having to statically list all packages that have priority standard
[20:33] <apachelogger> nifty magic, except not very useful on ubuntu ;)
[20:37] <SteveRiley> i think the difference was the commands alex and i had in mind. i was thinking to use the tasksel utility, alex used apt-get and specified the task name with the caret
[20:47] <apachelogger> (apt-get does not support tasks)
[20:48] <apachelogger> what afiestas did only worked because we actually have a real package called kubuntu-active
[20:49] <afiestas> apachelogger: I did what rohan told me
[20:49] <afiestas> I mean, I was not conscient of what I was doing xD
[20:49] <apachelogger> why I am explaining it :P
[20:50] <apachelogger> also FWIW ... one should not use taskel on ubuntu ... taskel uses aptitude for dep resolutoin etc and we do not QA against aptitude
[20:50] <apachelogger> so apt-get is in fact the right way to do it
[20:51] <apachelogger> even though from a functionality POV there is no difference
[20:55] <yofel> k, scratch repos setup done, now back to debugging qemu
[21:03] <SteveRiley> apachelogger: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
[21:03] <SteveRiley> check the "usage (alternative)" section
[21:04] <yofel> apachelogger: funny enough, aptitude usually does much more reasonable things to our packages that apt if something breaks
[21:04] <yofel> s/that apt/than apt/
[21:04] <kubotu> yofel meant: "apachelogger: funny enough, aptitude usually does much more reasonable things to our packages than apt if something breaks"
[21:09] <SteveRiley> and the output of apt-get -s install kubuntu-active is very different than the output of apt-get -s install kubuntu-active^
[21:40] <kubotu> ::qt-bugs:: [1057578] Vulnerable against "CRIME" attack @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1057578 (by Felix Geyer)
[21:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I swear to xenu that I will throw dirt at that guy
[22:00] <Riddell> evening
[22:00] <Riddell> did I miss anything?
[22:00]  * yofel has 0 idea how policykit works, but remembers him saying that it works in synaptic
[22:01] <shadeslayer> ohai Riddell
[22:01] <apachelogger> yofel: synaptic does not use polkit, it uses pkexec to do what sudo does using polkit
[22:01] <apachelogger> ahoy Riddell
[22:01] <yofel> ah, you might want to tell him thta
[22:02] <yofel> (Pedro is simplew on IRC btw. if you ever see him)
[22:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer: enjoying england?
[22:02] <yofel> worst case set the bug to won't fix
[22:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: it's chilly
[22:02] <yofel> he shouldn't be able to reopen it then
[22:02] <shadeslayer> So I'm mostly indoors :P
[22:02] <yofel> hi Riddell, you missed mostly the 4.9.3 release, otherwise it was rather quiet
[22:03] <Riddell> have merges started happening?
[22:04] <yofel> not for KDE at least as there's nothing to merge.
[22:04] <apachelogger> yofel: another nice bug I saw ... year old report about some compiz foo reported against runtime I believe, so I moved it to compiz and there it was closed as opinion as unity will bring supremacy to all and everything, the reporter subsequently moved it back to runtime and reopened on accounts of it being in a KDE path
[22:04] <apachelogger> I do have to tell you, bug triage makes you go mad
[22:05] <yofel> yeah, I know that :P
[22:06] <apachelogger> also there is this thing where apport is being smart and marks all and every crash report as private and medium
[22:06] <yofel> I think I'll open a bug about qemu-arm soon *-.-
[22:06]  * shadeslayer tries installing tf2
[22:06] <apachelogger> of course privates don't get a mail dispatched to kubuntu-bugs so we do not ever see that rubbish until somone heads to the actual page
[22:06] <apachelogger> so much for broken workflows
[22:06] <yofel> oh yeah, the mail sending is annoying
[22:07] <yofel> shadeslayer: got into the beta test?
[22:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you should install firefoo
[22:07] <shadeslayer> afaictl
[22:07] <apachelogger> whatever version I uploaded
[22:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: meh firefoo :P
[22:07]  * apachelogger has broken is le apt somehow
[22:08]  * apachelogger appears to be in typo state and perhaps should shutdown for the night
[22:08] <shadeslayer> drat
[22:08] <shadeslayer> no space on HDD
[22:08] <yofel> haha
[22:08] <shadeslayer> /dev/sda7                   134G  123G  4.6G  97% /home
[22:08] <apachelogger> actually... if someone feels particularly happy -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde4libs
[22:08] <apachelogger> I'd like to see that count at 0
[22:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: write script to invalidate all of them
[22:09] <shadeslayer> oh right, I have huge debugging shit in my /home
[22:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: there is valid bugs don't you know
[22:09] <yofel> hm, shadeslayer is forgetting bugs
[22:09] <apachelogger> like the bug you were supposed to fix :P
[22:09] <apachelogger> bug 1013442
[22:09] <yofel> right
[22:10] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: actually poke sune about that again
[22:10] <apachelogger> see if he followed up on promoting it to recommends in debian
[22:10] <shadeslayer> remind me again on Monday
[22:10] <shadeslayer> damnit steam
[22:10] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: put it on your todo :P
[22:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: here's what my TODO looks right now : HAVE FUN
[22:10] <shadeslayer> HAVE MORE FUN
[22:10] <apachelogger> oh btw, so I ordered a new PC from the mighty dell
[22:10] <shadeslayer> WATCH SKYFALL
[22:11] <apachelogger> turns out it takes 20 days to get a PC from dell nowadays
[22:11] <shadeslayer> HAVE FUN @ Science Museum
[22:11] <apachelogger> quite the let down
[22:11] <yofel> Suggests: media-player-info [linux-any]
[22:11] <yofel> not fixed in debian
[22:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I will not ask what a skyfall is
[22:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: best not to
[22:11] <shadeslayer> because I don't know what a skyfall is either
[22:12] <yofel> when you jump from space back to earth :P
[22:12] <apachelogger> yofel: yeah, I argued to sune that it should be recommends as that thing there is really more important than suggests as otherwise the detection behavior of solid is broken
[22:12] <shadeslayer> yofel: how does IMAX figure into that?
[22:12] <apachelogger> e.g. apparently my nokia phone is a camera
[22:12] <yofel> not at all but who cares
[22:12] <apachelogger> quite the surprise
[22:12] <apachelogger> yofel: only austrians are allowed to skyfall
[22:13] <apachelogger> also I think that guy got arrested for assulting someone
[22:13] <apachelogger> before I go to bed
[22:13] <apachelogger> I'd totally want to haxx0r bug 215383
[22:13] <apachelogger> so opinions on comment #2 plz
[22:14] <shadeslayer> I'm using kde4 and hardy beta.
[22:14] <shadeslayer> wat
[22:14] <apachelogger> actually add to that: create a KCM
[22:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: aka fix KInfoCenter
[22:14] <apachelogger> cuz in the gnomes they have a control center module to display that information
[22:14] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no
[22:14] <shadeslayer> yes
[22:14] <apachelogger> kic has too big a scope for that
[22:15] <shadeslayer> oic
[22:15] <yofel> +1 
[22:15] <yofel> some system info is ok, but only the basics
[22:15] <yofel> kic should should more than it currently does anyway
[22:15] <apachelogger> if we were to go the KCM route it would either be ... list it in systemsettings (Which I'd prefer) OR list it as app in the menu OR list it in the help menu of each app 
[22:16] <yofel> I'm not particulary happy about the idea of having BOTH 'about KDE' and 'about Kubuntu'
[22:16] <ScottK> yofel: We should.
[22:16] <ScottK> xnox: I'm all for removing useless things.
[22:17] <yofel> well... yeah, but...
[22:17] <apachelogger> yofel: well, long term we should make some plugable magic for upstream so that about KDE can contain additional distro info
[22:17] <yofel> apachelogger: that's about what I had in mind, but how would you call it then?
[22:17] <yofel> (I mean, you can just add a tab)
[22:18] <apachelogger> or actually that might not need to be pluggable but a simple desktop file or something would suffice, after all you should be able to get all the info from lsb-release and then throw in a url for the website and perhaps extra text or something
[22:18] <apachelogger> yofel: that dialog is a bit weird anyway
[22:18] <apachelogger> it's about the community yet it used to be about the product
[22:18] <apachelogger> all messed up
[22:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: but then what if you're offline
[22:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: doesnt compute
[22:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: how does that have impact on anything?
[22:19] <shadeslayer> "then throw in a url for the website and perhaps extra text or something"
[22:19] <apachelogger> [logo]
[22:20] <apachelogger> [distroname] [distroversion]
[22:20] <apachelogger> [distrourl]
[22:20] <apachelogger> [distrotext]
[22:20] <apachelogger> ^ content of dialog/kcm/widget/whatever
[22:20] <ScottK> xnox: Dropped.
[22:21] <apachelogger> our cd selection screen thing needs to be rdone
[22:21] <apachelogger> anyone remembers where that was stored?
[22:21] <apachelogger> debian-cd?
[22:21] <yofel> cd selection?
[22:21] <apachelogger> well the boot meny thingy that comes up on CD boot
[22:21] <yofel> you mean isolinux or syslinux how that was called?
[22:22] <apachelogger> CD/isoboot
[22:22] <yofel> ah
[22:22] <apachelogger> yofel: isolinux
[22:22] <apachelogger> it still uses le blue
[22:23] <ScottK> Maybe we should hide it by default like Ubuntu does?
[22:23] <apachelogger> also the grey between grub and plymouth is at war with the plymouth grey
[22:23]  * yofel wonders what people have against colors these days -.-
[22:23] <apachelogger> not sure where that comes from
[22:23] <ScottK> Go straight to eh ubiquity screen
[22:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: that's the plan
[22:23] <ScottK> OK.
[22:23] <apachelogger> once I found it ^^
[22:24] <ScottK> Did you find it yet?  If not, I'm sure xnox can tell you which knobs to turn.
[22:32] <apachelogger> yes
[22:32] <apachelogger> it's debian-cd
[22:32] <apachelogger> that's the good news, the bad is that I always get lost in the source base
[22:33]  * yofel gives up on debugging qemu-linaro for now
[22:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: should I reuse that artwork from ubuntu?
[22:35] <ScottK> Dunno.
[22:35] <apachelogger> I am having a hard time imagining a kde version in the limited color space
[22:36] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/11/08/access-new.png
[22:41] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: saw my emails
[22:42] <shadeslayer> erm sec
[22:42] <apachelogger> no
[22:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: saw my emails wrt ff-kde?
[22:42] <shadeslayer> meta package anotd what n
[22:42] <shadeslayer> *meta package and what not
[22:42] <shadeslayer> ( silly touchpad )
[22:44] <apachelogger> no clue what it means
[22:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: have a package called firefox-kde that has : Depends: firefox (>= 16.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.12.10.1+ppa1)
[22:45] <apachelogger> how does that change anything?
[22:46] <shadeslayer> people install firefox-kde , so when an upgrade comes along, it doesn't upgrade to the archive ff cleanly
[22:46] <shadeslayer> It'll complain
[22:46] <apachelogger> Depends: firefox (>= 16.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.12.10.1+ppa1)
[22:47] <yofel> >= will upgrade...
[22:47] <apachelogger> it will install cleanly
[22:47] <shadeslayer> bleh, I mean, = 16.0.2+build1-0ubuntu0.12.10.1+ppa1
[22:47] <apachelogger> also the complaining does not help much, does it?
[22:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: SteveRiley said that it'll help
[22:47] <yofel> shadeslayer: did you actually test that?
[22:47] <shadeslayer> yofel: nope, just a thought at the moment
[22:47] <yofel> as I know apt, it'll just go and remove firefox-kde
[22:48] <yofel> though maybe I'm wrong
[22:48] <shadeslayer> yeah, need to test that ...
[22:49] <shadeslayer> anywho, please reply to thread with thoughts :)
[22:50] <yofel> hm, maybe pinning firefox-kde with 1000 would work
[22:50] <shadeslayer> yofel: saw http://debuild.me/ ?
[22:50] <shadeslayer> yofel: that's what I want to avoid
[22:50] <yofel> shadeslayer: not yet
[22:50] <yofel> shadeslayer: why?
[22:51] <shadeslayer> Preferably want to completely hide pinning
[22:51] <yofel> I didn't mean pinning a specific version
[22:51] <yofel> ship the pin in the package?
[22:51] <shadeslayer> hm ... postinst scripts ....
[22:52] <shadeslayer> and postrm scripts
[22:53] <yofel> grrrrr, this is freakin' useless: http://paste.kde.org/600374/
[23:05] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/11/09/plasma-desktopvN2536.png
[23:06] <apachelogger> someone hold on to that screeny so you can give it to me when I start whining about how I forgot what the youbuntoo thing lists in 2 hours
[23:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: oh, btw, I think I'll wait with the coloring stuff
[23:08] <ScottK> OK.
[23:08] <apachelogger> IIRC nuno is planning a new wallpaper for 4.10
[23:09] <apachelogger> so I'll have to get him to show me the current version to decide whether grey is still the way to go
[23:09] <apachelogger> though I think there was talk of not being so grey ^^
[23:10] <ScottK> I'm in favor of not so grey.
[23:10] <apachelogger> yeah me too, it is gettig old :P
[23:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what desktop did you buy?