[00:00] <hamitron> yeh :/
[00:00] <hamitron> my laptop has USB 1.1, so understand
[00:00] <hamitron> ;)
[00:03] <pr0ph3t> just to be sure, Steam on Linux is really cool, can't wait to see it proper. I'm off now, night all!
[01:30] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] Evil, or why Douglas Crockford is harmful to Free Software - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/456/
[01:42] <ali1234> i have a suggestion
[01:43] <ali1234> when you're writing automated tests, run each test twice in a row
[01:43] <ali1234> i've been trying to record a screen cast for the past 2 hours and i've found several cases where something works only the first time you try to do it
[01:43] <ali1234> one of which was actually *in* the screencasting software
[01:57] <ali1234> ok so now that we install nvidia through "software-sources" there is a problem
[01:58] <ali1234> the way you access that dialog under the classic desktop is by opening synaptic and selecting the "repositories" menu item
[01:58] <ali1234> this doesn't work because jockey waits for synaptic to exit before installing packages
[01:58] <ali1234> but synaptic launched software sources, so you can't close it until you close software sources
[01:59] <ali1234> so it just hangs forever until you click cancel
[02:00] <ali1234> and of course there is no indication of what is happening
[02:01] <ali1234> also nouveau still locks this machine
[02:01] <ali1234> then watchdog timer resets it
[02:06] <directhex> proprietary drivers? EVIL! use intel!
[02:06]  * directhex flees
[02:06] <ali1234> lol
[02:06] <yellowwinner> ok...lol
[02:06] <ali1234> i thought you hated intel because it's so slow?
[02:07] <directhex> well, maybe
[02:08] <directhex> interestingly, if you run steam on intel, it pops up telling you to add a driver backport ppa to software sources
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076832
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076832 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Additional drivers" tab doesn't work when Software Sources was launched by synaptic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076832
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076830
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076830 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "panel crashes if you add, remove, then add the same applet" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076830
[02:08] <ali1234> bug 1076829
[02:08] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1076829 in kazam (Ubuntu) "Recording only works once" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076829
[02:08] <yellowwinner> UBUNTU
[02:09] <ali1234> i know right, i only installed it two hours ago
[02:09] <ali1234> well, THIS version anyway :)
[02:11] <ali1234> now i have to figure out why firefox never starts if you run it from the menu, but works fine if you run it from the terminal
[02:13] <yellowwinner> I have had that happen
[02:13] <ali1234> Exec=firefox -new-window
[02:13] <ali1234> nope, nothing to do with that
[02:14] <ali1234> it must be a bug from the past two days because the test install i did two days ago on identical hardware worked fine
[02:14] <ali1234> maybe it's nouveau
[02:14] <ali1234> rebooting to proper driver
[02:16] <yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:18] <yellowwinner> hello?
[02:18] <yellowwinner> ik there is 114 users on chat.
[02:24] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
[02:24] <ali1234> fail :(
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  use to make it or even a animation.
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  hello?
[02:30] <yellowwinner>  ik there is 114 users on chat.
[02:30] <yellowwinner> --> ali1234 (~ajbuxton@headfuzz.co.uk) has joined #ubuntu-uk
 http://askubuntu.com/questions/204103/firefox-16-wont-start-from-the-gnome-shell-in-12-10
[02:31] <yellowwinner> I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:31] <yellowwinner> srry
[02:33] <yellowwinner>  I need help with ubuntu,I am making a game and I dont know what program I can use to make it or even a animation.
[02:33] <ali1234> what kind of game are you making?
[02:35] <yellowwinner> Its a platform,weapon game
[02:36] <yellowwinner> look here http://www.thatbigforum.com/new-game-help-wanted-t206240.html
[02:36] <ali1234> like super smash bros?
[02:37] <Azelphur> python/pygame is quite easy to learn and should get you where you want to go
[02:37] <yellowwinner> well sortof like super mario bro and super smash bro.
[02:37] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMFUOUz2TZw <- or like this kind of thing?
[02:37] <Azelphur> and very well documented, too
[02:38] <ali1234> pygame is a bit old fashioned though
[02:38] <Azelphur> sounds like that's all he wanted *shrug*
[02:38] <Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiqIlCrAck
[02:39] <ali1234> lol stolen graphics
[02:39] <Azelphur> no day is complete without piracy
[02:41] <yellowwinner> sort of,but my game will be different
[02:42] <yellowwinner> do you have skype
[02:42] <ali1234> well if you use pygame you will have to learn a lot of stuff
[02:43] <yellowwinner> well I do code ALOT so...]
[02:45] <ali1234> pygame uses SDL so it is like old style DOS programming with framebuffers
[02:45] <ali1234> it can also use opengl but that isn't much better without support libraries
[02:45] <yellowwinner> k,ali1234 do u have skype?
[02:46] <ali1234> you might be better off with something like this: https://love2d.org/
[02:46] <ali1234> i don't have anything yet i just reinstalled
[02:46] <ali1234> i need to reinstall everything
[02:46] <yellowwinner> ok
[02:47] <yellowwinner> i just reinstaled from 12.04 presice becouse software center and update manager was brocken
[02:49] <yellowwinner> so now im ubuntu 12.04.1 and software center only crashed once whith only 1 Gig
[02:49] <yellowwinner> of ram
[02:51] <yellowwinner> whith love 2-d can I make guns and stores
[02:51] <ali1234> sure
[02:52] <yellowwinner> ok
[02:52] <ali1234> you still have to do a lot of work yourself though
[02:52] <ali1234> just less than with pygame
[02:52] <yellowwinner> ik
[02:53] <yellowwinner> I still need help with graphics etc but espesioly graphics becouse i was never a good drwler
[02:54] <yellowwinner> I* Drawler*
[03:04] <yellowwinner> just installed love 2d
[03:22] <ali1234> no skype on 12.10?
[03:28] <ali1234> "previous purchases" on software centre doesn't work
[03:28] <ali1234> it's just empty :(
[03:33] <yellowwinner> works on 12.04
[03:34] <yellowwinner> well just a sec i will pm you my skype id becouse I got to go
[03:37] <yellowwinner> also try going to skypes homepage
[03:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://bitcoinfriday.com/ tasty deals are tasty
[03:42] <ali1234> blockchain.info zero fees for pingit?
[03:42] <ali1234> there's your solution for buying bitcoins
[03:42] <ali1234> just get a barclays account
[03:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: I get cheaper than pingit, and you can buy from me :D
[03:44] <ali1234> i don't want to buy anyt ho
[03:44] <Azelphur> £6.89/btc ain't bad though
[03:45] <ali1234> i guess
[03:45] <ali1234> but i already have enough
[03:46] <Azelphur> up to 40% off bitcoin cloths sounds awesome though
[03:46] <Azelphur> gotta get me a bitcoin hat
[03:49] <ali1234> are you still selling that FPGA board?
[03:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: yup
[07:25] <Mr_Tinkles> hi, when I boot (even attempt to boot from Cd) I get rmr:2
[07:25] <Mr_Tinkles> and it doesn't boot
[08:04] <theopensourcerer> Morning worldlings
[08:05] <popey> Morning :D
[08:10] <diplo> Morning
[08:37] <danfish> morning
[08:37] <danfish> I have never been so glad it's a Friday :)
[08:38] <popey> *\o/* friday!
[08:38] <popey> -------8<--------
[08:38] <theopensourcerer> Good week then danfish ?
[08:39]  * theopensourcerer will be drinking beer, playing pool and eating curry this evening in Farnham
[08:40] <danfish> theopensourcerer: don't ask. Too many ill people, a load of python for a remote patient monitoring system 'broke'
[08:41] <danfish> but at least Matt Rooney wasn't elected!
[08:42] <danfish> and lxc containers have really come along well in the latest release
[09:08] <awilkins> Does Quantal fix the Unity bug where if you have two differently sized monitors, when you drag a window to the top margin of the smaller one and it has a dimension larger than the dimension on that monitor, it maximises to the larger monitor instead?
[09:08] <popey> awilkins, not yet, its in progress
[09:09] <AlanBell> awilkins: nope
[09:09] <popey> I'd like that fixed in raring and backported to q and p
[09:09] <AlanBell> fwiw, it isn't just vertical
[09:09] <awilkins> Yeah, it's horizontal as well AFAICT
[09:10] <popey> bug 751605
[09:10] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 751605 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Multi-monitor - Windows maximize on the wrong monitor" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751605
[09:10] <AlanBell> if you have a wide screen and a thin screen it jumps across if it would have fitted vertically
[09:10] <AlanBell> glad it is a bug though
[09:13] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
[09:13] <mungojerry> i notice a distinct lack of popy wearing in the east end
[09:13] <mungojerry> compared to the city
[09:14] <mungojerry> 10% vs ~90%
[09:14] <AlanBell> poppy sellers know where the returns are
[09:14]  * theopensourcerer hides in shame
[09:14]  * popey has no poppy
[09:14] <mungojerry> most of the east end was flattened
[09:15] <mungojerry> although the current population might not know that
[09:15] <AlanBell> I did buy a poppy from the first seller that came round, but I have not seen any others
[09:15] <mungojerry> outside supermarkets
[09:15] <awilkins> Or the working class now just regard war as a tool of the rich to extract a profit (Halliburton, etc)
[09:15]  * theopensourcerer will acquire one this lunchtime.
[09:15] <mungojerry> it's this time of year i commemorate my grandad getting bronchial pneumonia
[09:16] <awilkins> My granddad was an engineer, worked on munitions in the war.
[09:16] <mungojerry> he got really sick and sent to hospital to recover. meanwhile his unit got sent to a battle where the allies got masssacred
[09:16] <mungojerry> pneumonia saved his life
[09:16] <theopensourcerer> My dad was "called up" in 1946 (phew)
[09:17] <diplo> I was in a shop the other day in plymouth and woman wanted a pin because she was going to use last years poppy, don't think she gets it really
[09:17] <mungojerry> :-\
[09:17] <theopensourcerer> lol
[09:17] <awilkins> My wife accused me of being the sort of person who would have ended up at Bletchley Park yesterday
[09:18] <mungojerry> i dream about the idea of working at BP
[09:18] <mungojerry> guys, i recommend you watch episode 3 of this series http://www.channel5.com/shows/heroes-of-the-skies/episodes
[09:18] <mungojerry> amazing story
[09:18] <awilkins> I dreamed about Batman going paragliding on his cape by lassoing a mess of bats.
[09:18] <AlanBell> think I might swap monitors between home and the office
[09:19] <mungojerry> i was reading yesterady about the 2 guys to swam to a stricken u-boat to retrieve the naval enigma, which was critical for the war in the atlantic
[09:19] <AlanBell> I kind of like my home monitor in portrait mode 1152x2048
[09:19] <mungojerry> they managed to waterproof the code books and the enigma and get it out, but they died as the u-boat sank
[09:20] <mungojerry> you don't see that kind of bravery and selfessness much now
[09:21] <popey> you didnt then either
[09:21] <popey> we find out about these acts much later usually
[09:21] <mungojerry> also there is less call for it nowadays
[09:23] <mungojerry> very grateful to those guys in the war though, and the more i read about it (which is quite a lot) , the more grateful i am
[09:25] <diplo> Also probably wouldn't be allowed to do things now, H&S would disallow it in case someone got sued
[09:27] <popey> awilkins, just spoke to the developer assigned to it, he's going to take a look next week
[09:27] <mungojerry> Alan Turing at bletchley: "when the prospect of a Nazi invasion of Britain had receded, he began to absent himself from parades. The authorities were irritated by Turing’s apparently casual approach, insisting that since he had signed up for Home Guard duties, he was under military law. Turing calmly pointed out to the furious officers in question that ... he had stated as much on the form that he had signed. One of the qu
[09:27] <mungojerry> estions was: ‘Do you understand that by enrolling in the Home Guard, you place yourself liable to military law?’ Turing had written his answer: ‘No’. Naturally, no one had noticed"
[09:27] <awilkins> popey, That's reassuring... has been a paper cut for a long time
[09:28] <awilkins> (not an official "paper cut" just annoying and persistent)
[09:28] <popey> yeah, bugs me too :)
[09:38] <diplo> Just booted up an old 1u server I had, running 8.04
[09:38] <diplo> hmm not touched that in a while :D
[09:41] <mattmonkeymagic> Hi, anyone able to help with xrdp/LDAP/pam issue??
[09:42] <theopensourcerer> lol - We had an email from a very old customer that we thought had died or something the other day. We set up Squid, VirtualBox (WinXP) and some other stuff on a 8.04 server in early 2009. She emailed to ask for the password as they wanted to add a new user ;-)
[09:42] <diplo> Booting up the other one now, it's been in my garage for 5+ years
[09:42] <diplo> Noisey!
[09:43] <diplo> Oooh Grub 0.95
[09:43] <diplo> Running debian
[09:48] <diplo> Stuck on Starting system log daemon
[09:49] <diplo> See how long I can put up with the noise for to see if it goes past
[09:57] <diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/4CyssbA2E98d3lbUmh6hrl
[10:10] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:19] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:52] <mungojerry> hello
[10:54]  * mungojerry has found his old oolite save game files and is back in the elite groove
[10:55] <mungojerry> anyone else play oolite?
[10:56] <diplo> Never heard of it...
[10:57] <einonm> is that an elite clone?
[10:58] <mungojerry> yes, it's amazing
[10:58] <mungojerry> has all the fun of the the original series
[10:58] <mungojerry> quite similar to arc elite if you've played it
[10:59] <mungojerry> you can play stric classic mode, but the cool thing its the huge array of expansions that the community have made
[10:59] <mungojerry> generation ships, cool missions, bloomberg markets etc
[10:59] <einonm> I used to play frontier quite a bit, but I seem to remember oolite never worked for me, openGL issues or something
[10:59] <mungojerry> what distro you on?
[11:00] <bashrc> what about oolite?
[11:01] <mungojerry> its great :)
[11:03] <einonm> this was Fedora at the time
[11:03] <mungojerry> works pretty well on all linux i thnk
[11:04] <mungojerry> lightdm has been slighlty problematic for some, and some ubuntus too, but now there's a tar.gz that you just put in /opt/oolite
[11:04] <mungojerry> and extract
[11:04] <einonm> I may give it a try if I ever get time - it was a good few years ago
[11:05] <mungojerry> scooped up a few thargon robot craft last night :D
[11:05] <mungojerry> alien items :)
[11:06] <popey> i just apt-got it and it works nicely
[11:07] <mungojerry> not the most recent in the repos
[11:08] <mungojerry> check out the list of exapnsions http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/OXP_List
[11:08] <mungojerry> some of the stuff is from the novella
[11:09] <mungojerry> docking with a deep space dredger, and collecting escape pods for insurance payouts
[11:10] <mungojerry> obviously you can trade ships etc now
[11:24] <dwatkins> apt-get, apt-got, has apt-gotten
[11:24] <mungojerry> i'm not sure if a better game exists actually
[11:24] <bashrc> apt-grab?
[11:24] <mungojerry> apt-acquire
[11:24] <mungojerry> apt-peruse instead of apt-cache search
[11:59] <hoover> hi folks
[12:57] <yellowwinner> im back
[13:03] <yellowwinner> gtg
[13:05] <popey> ok!
[13:19] <Bassetts> well, I have not been here for a while
[13:19] <Bassetts> how are all you lovely people?
[13:20] <popey> BARK BARK BARK Bassetts BARK BARK BARK!
[13:21] <Bassetts> not as friendly as I remember then :-p
[13:22] <popey> its a friendly bark
[13:22]  * Bassetts pets popey
[13:22] <popey> like you get when you've been away on holiday, talk wagging furiously, that kind of thing

[13:22] <Bassetts> the kind where some dogs get so excited they pee all over you?
[13:23] <popey> yes, that
[13:23] <Bassetts> oh dear
[13:27] <christel> :o
[13:28] <Bassetts> does anyone have some towels or something?
[13:31] <diplo> :q
[13:31] <diplo> Oops
[13:31] <diplo> :@P
[13:32] <Bassetts> anyway, how have you been popey, been a long time since we chatted
[13:41] <mgdm> Bassetts!
[13:45] <popey> Bassetts, oh the usual :)
[13:46] <Bassetts> mgdm! :-)
[13:48] <Bassetts> popey, technology, lug, UDS, foss etc? :-p
[13:49] <popey> yup
[13:49] <popey> pate
[13:49] <Bassetts> sounds good :-)
[13:50] <popey> i made some with lambs liver I got from the co-op for 60p :)
[13:50] <popey> tis yum
[13:50] <Bassetts> awesome
[13:51] <Bassetts> does anyone have C++ experience?
[13:52] <Bassetts> I need a good resource to learn it
[14:20] <AlanBell> directhex: so, should all the JSON containing stuff go to Debian non-free?
[14:20] <AlanBell> and can it get into Ubuntu like that?
[14:59] <diplo> Anyone tried the Xorg Edgers ppa for the new nvidia drivers which are supposed t odouble performance ?
[15:04] <awilkins> Not me
[15:05] <awilkins> Although was pleased with the 304 version which makes my dear old Mum's computer actually work instead of going  DEEEERRRRRRRP
[15:06] <awilkins> Do they double the performance of Unity? Saw a number of comments about them improving OpenGL performance when Compiz is enabled
[15:09] <ali1234> nvidia driver optimizations typically only affect one specific program
[15:09] <ali1234> in this case L4D2
[15:09] <ali1234> which we can't even play yet if we're not in the beta
[15:09] <ali1234> they usually have a detrimental effect on... all other software
[15:16] <awilkins> ali1234, I think these ones are just optimizations
[15:17] <awilkins> It comes out to about 10% faster than the Windows build in the end
[15:17] <ali1234> in one game
[15:17] <awilkins> Think that was a combiation of driver updates and Source engine patches
[15:17] <awilkins> And it's 4% when they backported some of the optimizations to thw Windows build
[15:19] <awilkins> " dramatically reduce game loading times " sounds like they sorted out a load of the memory transfer stuff which would probably translate to universal performance improvements
[15:27] <awilkins> If it was 1/2 the performance of the Windows build before, sounds like there were some serious issues
[15:28] <ali1234> i've never had performance issues
[15:28] <ali1234> though we are talking about 150 fps vs 300 fps when your monitor probably only does 60 fps
[15:28] <awilkins> Well, yes, you'd not notice
[15:29] <awilkins> And I don't play games on Linux much (yet)
[15:29] <ali1234> what i did notice is that shaders never work properly
[15:29] <ali1234> play any game where there are windows which are supposed to be transparent
[15:29] <ali1234> they're not
[15:31] <directhex> AlanBell, the json.org license doesn't apply to all implementations, just the specific implementations under the json.org license
[15:31] <directhex> AlanBell, and i don't think the code is distributable in non-free/multiverse
[15:32] <AlanBell> yeah, python-simplejson is fine for example
[15:33] <AlanBell> did you see that it fails the tentacles of evil test
[15:33] <ali1234> that what now?
[15:35] <shauno> I'm not sure it's safe to google tentacles at work.  google knows me too well.
[15:41]  * danfish installs the cinnamon desktop to see what it's like
[15:42] <directhex> Uplink, Darwinia, Amnesia updated to use 64-bit builds on 64-bit distros (fixing dependency issue in amnesia)
[15:43] <diplo> danfish: I've used it lot's of times
[15:43] <diplo> just kept getting io lockups
[15:43] <diplo> So dod oimon
[15:43] <diplo> did*
[15:44] <danfish> oh. I'll give it a whizz anyway, just out of curiosity. I don't mind Unirty TBH and use xfce on remote desktops
[15:44] <danfish> which work well
[15:45] <diplo> I use unity most of the time now
[15:46] <diplo> Especially since 12.10
[16:01] <mungojerry> diplo, you called?
[16:02] <mungojerry> yeah, got lockups on cinnamon, and also gnome shell
[16:49] <BigRedS> isn't cinnamon gnome shell with a bunch of extensions?
[16:53] <NET||abuse> where would people recomend for dedicated server hosting?
[16:54] <NET||abuse> i'm used to using hetzner, but requirement is UK based datacenter this time.
[16:55] <ali1234> BigRedS: yes
[16:55] <Azelphur> NET||abuse: I think kimsufi.co.uk ain't too bad
[16:56] <ali1234> i've got a question about hetzner actually
[16:56] <ali1234> one of my users wants to send an email to about 150 people
[16:56] <ali1234> am i going to have problems?
[16:57] <NET||abuse> 150, not at all
[16:57] <AlanBell> ali1234: that is not many at all
[16:57] <ali1234> it's going to be sent from the wordpress running on a hetzner dedi
[16:57] <NET||abuse> legitimate distribution list yets?
[16:57] <NET||abuse> ali1234: ye, don't worry your little head.
[16:58] <ali1234> the plugin has an option "limit bcc to 30 addresses" and then it sends multiple emails
[16:58] <NET||abuse> :P condecention much..
[16:58] <theopensourcerer> NET||abuse: Try Bytemark
[16:58] <ali1234> i suppose that the email will get split up by the postfix running on the dedi anyway right?
[16:58] <NET||abuse> Bytmark, oh, they sponsor good stuff, so why not :)(
[16:58] <theopensourcerer> we use Hetzner a lot - very happy so far.
[16:58] <ali1234> which will then send it out to all the different servers itself
[16:58] <directhex> mythic!
[16:59] <directhex> for all your rack-mounted mac mini needs
[16:59] <theopensourcerer> I would not think 150 emails would be a problem at all.
[16:59] <ali1234> i don't understand how email servers work anyway
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: believe me, you don't want to
[16:59] <NET||abuse> ali1234: well sending more than 2 or 3k emails ina day then maybe you start to be suspicious :)
[16:59] <theopensourcerer> there be dragons...
[17:00] <ali1234> i believe that my local postfix contacts the receipient mailserver directly right?
[17:00] <NET||abuse> ali1234: ;yeh, be careful with postfix/other mta's, their channels are filled with meritocratic short tempered geeks.
[17:00] <NET||abuse> :P
[17:00] <NET||abuse> ali1234: meh, kinda
[17:01] <ali1234> so a mail from wordpress to @gmail.com goes wordpress/php -> postfix -> google smtp -> gmail
[17:01] <AlanBell> ali1234: it tries to, but might fail over to secondary MX
[17:01] <ali1234> it does not go through a hetzner smarthost first
[17:01] <AlanBell> no
[17:01] <NET||abuse> as long as you didn't configure it to, no
[17:01] <ali1234> so if there were a limit on my BCC, it would be in software that i control, basically
[17:01] <AlanBell> it goes to the MX which is possibly a relay to where it is going to be delivered in the end
[17:02] <ali1234> i've watched the postfix logs trying to debug another issue and seen it being greylisted by other random email servers etc
[17:02] <NET||abuse> ali1234: id' not use bcc lists, i'm not sure how your mta will deal with it, but if one address has issues, in a large list of them in a bcc, itj could block the other emails
[17:02] <ali1234> i think i need to set up SPF as well
[17:02] <ali1234> ah, so just send many individual emails?
[17:02] <NET||abuse> yes, if you are sending out even a moderate amount of mail, SPF records are good
[17:03] <NET||abuse> reveres that dns, baby..
[17:03] <ali1234> the plugin has an option for that so that's ok
[17:03] <NET||abuse> i'd use it
[17:03] <NET||abuse> go seperate, avoid clogging mta queues
[17:03] <ali1234> hmm, about SPF... i read that if i add a SPF record for the server it will make everything else look fake
[17:04] <NET||abuse> if it's a shared host, yes, that's annoying.
[17:04] <ali1234> my users got a gmail account configured to send as their domain
[17:04] <ali1234> also the server runs a load of other websites
[17:04] <NET||abuse> unless you actually have mx records for the other domains useing the named spf name as the mx record
[17:04] <NET||abuse> then it's fine.
[17:04] <ali1234> i don't want to break any of that stuff
[17:05] <NET||abuse> just add mx to the other domains on the box to use the spf name as an mx record.
[17:05] <NET||abuse> i think that satisfies most issues.
[17:05] <ali1234> nah, the server does not receive mail, it only sends it (ie sign up emails etc)
[17:08] <NET||abuse> yeh, but to have other servers say, your sending email for which domain, oh that one, ok
[17:08] <NET||abuse> your spf name appears in mx records for that domain, therefore we're ok with you sending email for that domain.
[17:08] <NET||abuse> basically.
[17:09] <ali1234> yeah, but i have to add an SPF record for gmail too or else it will stop working
[17:09] <NET||abuse> there's more to it than that i think, but more or less, that's why when you set MX ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM 5 for your mx records, it lets google send mail for your domain without issues.
[17:10] <NET||abuse> nooooooo
[17:10] <NET||abuse> hahahah
[17:10] <NET||abuse> everyone gets confused by this stuff
[17:10] <NET||abuse> at first
[17:10] <ali1234> yes.
[17:14] <shauno> setting google.com as an MX will make them receive for your domain too?
[17:14] <NET||abuse> yes, that's right,
[17:14] <NET||abuse> and setting an spf record allows them to be trusted, so sorry ali1234, I got completely mixed up in my head too,, seems i'm not clear on it myself.
[17:15] <ali1234> that's not what i want
[17:15] <shauno> for spf I have 'include:_spf.google.com' in the txt record
[17:15] <ali1234> i have a receiving mail server already, that forwards to gmail
[17:15] <shauno> descriptive text "v=spf1 a mx include:_spf.google.com -all"
[17:16] <shauno> A & MX refer to the dns records of the same type, the incdlue: delegates, and I don't remember what -all was for
[17:16] <ali1234> -all means "reject anything else"
[17:16] <NET||abuse> so don't do that :)
[17:17] <ali1234> that is - means fail, all means anything not already matched
[17:17] <shauno> well, for my site, anything that didn't come from my MX or google's delegate oughta fail
[17:17] <ali1234> yeah
[17:18] <ali1234> that's what i want
[17:19] <ali1234> so if i write a SPF record for a.com which mentions my MX IP, that won't affect it's abaility to send as b.com at all?
[17:20] <ali1234> this is why i always hate it when someone asks me "hey can i email all the users"
[17:23] <shauno> it shouldn't; that'd depend on b.com's record
[17:23] <ali1234> assuming sending mail works for b.com now, it should continue to work?
[17:24] <ali1234> i'll just try it :/
[17:24] <shauno> right.  the recieving end looks up the record for the from address, it doesn't go combing to see if anyone else on the planet has a record that matches
[17:24] <ali1234> yeah i guess that would allow ddos if i could say "i'm the only person allowed to send as gmail.com"
[17:24] <ali1234> that's just plain silly
[17:28] <ali1234> gandi zone file editor help: "You can leave comments, but they will not be saved."
[17:28] <ali1234> :(
[17:29] <ali1234> does this look reasonable: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345685/
[17:29] <shauno> seems silly.  I imagine it's just so you can paste in existing records without breaking things, but surely saving them isn't too difficult
[17:29] <ali1234> hmm need to change the timeout
[17:31] <shauno> I think you've misunderstood the include: clause.  that just includes the spf records that _spf.google.com provides, it doesn't allow _spf.google.com
[17:31] <ali1234> maybe
[17:31] <shauno> so including yourself is recursive
[17:32] <ali1234> nah, i'm not including myself there
[17:32] <ali1234> but point taken
[17:32] <shauno> that's what include:5.9.107.79 is trying to do
[17:33] <ali1234> "mx" should include gandi.net mail servers
[17:33] <ali1234> *allow
[17:33] <ali1234> actually it won't because reverse dns on that ip gives a different domain
[17:33] <shauno> right
[17:34] <ali1234> k,how about this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1345698/
[17:35] <shauno> I think it's just ip4:, but that's more like it, yeah
[17:35] <ali1234> oops, you're right
[17:35] <shauno> just looking at ' host -t txt _spf.google.com' and assuming theirs works :)
[17:39] <BigRedS> ~all means that it's not taken *that* seriously anyway
[17:41] <shauno> right.  ~all is soft, so I get a header injected but still receive it (but can junk it with procmail later)
[17:42] <BigRedS> yeah
[17:43] <BigRedS> most mailers will consider it, but not treat an spf fail as a reason to block the mail
[17:43] <shauno> probably a sane idea while you're testing though
[17:44] <BigRedS> yeah, definitely
[17:44] <BigRedS> almost everyone's spf records are ~all
[17:44]  * popey spies SuperMatt playing Serious Sam 3
[17:46] <shauno> I guess I can afford hardfails because it's just me on my mx :)
[18:30] <ali1234> my dns changes don't seem to be propagating even though i have TTL set to 300
[18:31] <brobostigon> 300, by what scale. ?
[18:31] <ali1234> seconds
[18:32] <brobostigon> ali1234: last week, i had mine set to 10 minutes, and in the end, it took, closer to an hour, for the changes to have worked on my end.
[18:32] <ali1234> i'm querying directly the host's DNS server
[18:32] <ali1234> even that has not updated
[18:32] <brobostigon> ok.
[18:33] <brobostigon> no idea then.
[18:33] <ali1234> the authority section (which i cannot edit) has timeout 10800 (3 hours)
[18:33] <jacobw> evening
[18:33] <ali1234> will that affect TXT records?
[18:34] <brobostigon> no idea.
[18:34] <jacobw> if they're cached, yes
[18:34] <ali1234> oh wait, it's working now
[18:34] <ali1234> dig TXT @a.dns.gandi.net drumoff.tv
[18:34] <directhex> ali1234, you incremented the serial number?
[18:34] <ali1234> wat
[18:35] <ali1234> what serial number? i am confused now
[18:36] <ali1234> i guess the TTL is a lower bound
[18:37] <ali1234> cool, spf is working
[18:40] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/ loving the design team's new blog layout. I now have *no* clue what order the posts are in
[18:41] <ali1234> is it pinterest style?
[18:41] <ali1234> it's not loading for me
[18:41] <AlanBell> october, january,october, september,november, august, august, october
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: target release order?
[18:42] <ali1234> form over function
[18:42] <ali1234> pretty much what you expect from designers
[18:42] <AlanBell> it is a page of stuff and I have to read all the dates and internally peform max(date) to figure out which to read
[19:00] <Azelphur> Is there any easy way to send out like 30 emails, where only one word in the email differs for each one?
[19:05] <ali1234> mail merge
[19:10] <jacobw> that's kind of the definition of mail merge
[19:14] <AlanBell> Azelphur: if you want to go up a few orders of magnitude from there you could use an email marketing platform like openemm
[19:14] <AlanBell> {email marketing platform/spam engine}
[19:22] <Azelphur> AlanBell: haha, nah, I might just use python+smtp to do it
[19:22] <Azelphur> done a contest for my game servers, need to hand out the goodies to the winners :)
[19:24] <jacobw> http://docs.python.org/2/library/email-examples.html
[19:24] <jacobw> don't bother with smtplib, just make a milter
[19:25] <jacobw> parse in to object → rewrite body → generate rfc822 back to postfix
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> 2822
[19:29]  * Seeker` wonders what is wrong with popey
[19:47] <kvarley> I have a Samsung 535U3C and am running 12.04 on it. The wifi keeps dropping every 5-10 minutes. How can I check if I'm on the right driver for the wifi chip in it?
[20:05] <directhex> by not /parting before receiving a reply.
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> jpc
[21:20] <yellowwinner> hello again