[12:32] <ttoine> hi
[12:32] <ttoine> zequence, so you set my first job with editing menu tool to done ?
[13:01] <smartboyhw> ttoine, eh where is that tool?
[13:02] <ttoine> apt-get install alacarte
[13:02] <smartboyhw> ttoine, aren't that included in the live images?
[13:03] <ttoine> smartboyhw, perhaps, but not installed because we had user complain
[13:03] <smartboyhw> ttoine, eh I just reinstalled my Studio 12.10 and i have that....let me see
[13:04] <smartboyhw> ttoine, ah I know why now...Does that user use 12.04.1?
[13:04] <ttoine> smartboyhw, so ? alacarte is in Studio 12.10 ?
[13:05] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yes:P
[13:05] <ttoine> smartboyhw, I don't know
[13:05] <ttoine> so alacarte is not in 12.04 ?
[13:05] <smartboyhw> ttoine, look at here. It's not in 12.04
[13:05] <smartboyhw> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.04.1/release/ubuntustudio-12.04.1-dvd-amd64.manifest
[13:05] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yet though 
[13:05] <smartboyhw> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/ubuntustudio-12.10-dvd-amd64.manifest
[13:05] <smartboyhw> It is included in 12.10
[13:05] <ttoine> ok
[13:06] <smartboyhw> ttoine, probably you will have to SRU that to 12.04
[13:06] <ttoine> so perhaps it was a 12.04 user, yes. The aim was to check too that alacarte works well
[13:06] <ttoine> works well in XFCE, I mean
[13:11] <ttoine> smartboyhw, would it be possible to add it to default install for 12.04.2? (if there will be 12.04.2, of course)
[13:11] <smartboyhw> ttoine, yes. But then you either backport or SRU it
[13:24] <ttoine> ok. but it will not be ;-)
[13:31] <persia> Um, we really don't want to add stuff to the default install in an SRU, if we can avoid it.
[13:32] <persia> And backporting the metas is just raw madness, because it means that we'll have different sets of users on the same release with different sets of software.
[13:32] <persia> The rationale for not adding stuff is that the behaviour of adding a recommendation to a metapackage in an update depends on the tool used to perform the upgrade, so may not actually do what we want.
[13:33] <smartboyhw> Yeah I do agree
[13:33] <smartboyhw> ttoine, just tell that user to install 12.10
[13:33] <persia> Setting something as a dependency of a metapackage forces install for some tools, but will cause other tools to refuse to apply the update, which may cause users to not be able to confidently update anything else.
[13:33] <persia> Rather, just tell that user to install alacarte: it's present in 12.04, just not installed by default.
[13:34] <persia> Whether a user upgrades or not is a complex issue, but we should assume that nearly every user has some extra packages or has removed some packages from the default install.
[14:16]  * persia bzr up's ubiquity
[14:16] <smartboyhw> persia, where is it stored, that is MOST important
[14:18] <persia> It's not, precisely :)  xnox is explaining.
[14:19] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:23] <astraljava> If user is missing alacarte only, then why is installing it a solution to the problem?
[14:23] <astraljava> not a solution*
[14:23] <persia> smartboyhw: Hint: (i) is the current bug: we need to change ubuntustudio-icon-theme
[14:24] <smartboyhw> persia, yeah I do think
[14:24] <smartboyhw> so
[14:25] <ttoine> persia, why ?
[14:26] <persia> ttoine: ubiquity branding.
[14:26] <persia> It's confusing because we're chatting in two channels.
[14:26] <ttoine> ok
[14:26] <smartboyhw> ttoine, to join full discussion join #ubuntu-installer
[14:27] <ttoine> no no
[14:27] <ttoine> I just didn't understand why you spoke about that here
[14:28] <persia> Because I was away too long, and got asked to be quiet there: I need to commit a few things to ubiquity to regain credibility :)
[14:28] <smartboyhw> persia, LOL
[14:29] <smartboyhw> persia, you sure? In ubuntustudio-icon-theme I saw only a debian directory and in it only has five files...
[14:30] <persia> smartboyhw: Right: we need to provide the distribution-logo logo (or at least it's definition).
[14:30] <smartboyhw> !?
[14:30] <persia> When my ubiquity branch is up-to-date, I can tell you more.
[14:32] <smartboyhw> LOL
[14:35] <persia> Right.  The file "distributor-logo" in the icon path sets the icon shown there.
[14:35] <persia> Right now we probably depend on some xubuntu icon package that provides that.
[14:35] <persia> We'd need to provide something different, which might mean splitting/forking the relevant xubuntu icon package.
[14:37] <persia> I don't have a current raring install, but if you do, check which package provides the distributor-logo now, and that gives us a good path to find the thing to change.
[14:37] <smartboyhw> persia, ubuntustudio-look
[14:38] <smartboyhw> It has a distributor-logl.svg
[14:38] <persia> Provides distributor-logo?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> *-logo.svg
[14:38] <persia> Does any other package provide a distributor-logo file?
[14:38] <persia> Maybe we're just running into a cache order issue.
[14:38] <smartboyhw> persia, not so I think
[14:39] <smartboyhw> Ah distributor-logo.png actually in ubuntustudio-look
[14:39] <persia> Do you have a live image that boots with the wrong icon available?
[14:39] <smartboyhw> persia, simple. The 12.10 live image and the 12.04.1 live image
[14:39] <smartboyhw> They use the Xubuntu logo
[14:39] <persia> What happens if you run `find /usr/share -name distributor-logo* -print` in such an image?
[14:40] <smartboyhw> Oh wait then
[14:43] <smartboyhw> Ah persia I saw the problem. It uses the elementary-xfce distributor-logo's but they are the Xubuntu ones
[14:44] <smartboyhw> Hmm we should then probably create a elementary-studio thing
[14:44] <persia> Right.  So we need to either fork the icon themes, or split them differently so that the distributor-logo isn't in that package, but in the packages that depend upon it.
[14:44] <persia> I think it would be better for ubuntustudio-look to provide that one file, and depend on elementary-xfce.
[14:45] <persia> And for there to be a xubuntu-look package that also depended on elementary-xfce.
[14:45] <persia> Unless you think we want to maintain a completely separate icon theme.
[14:46] <smartboyhw> persia, no.1 should we say that ubuntustudio-look conflicts xubuntu-look?
[14:47] <persia> Yes, two packages that provide the same file must conflict.
[14:50] <smartboyhw> persia, OK I added xubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-icon-theme to conflct
[14:51] <persia> Um, that's not enough.
[14:52] <persia> You also need to make sure those packages aren't being pulled by default.
[14:52] <persia> And I thought you said that the package providing the offending file was elementary-xfce
[14:53] <persia> So you need to work with the xubuntu team to ensure that there is an agreed plan of where that file belongs.
[14:53] <persia> Otherwise the issue doesn't go away.
[14:53] <smartboyhw> persia, hmm 1. There is no elementary-xfce package
[14:53] <smartboyhw> They just include it in xubuntu-artwork package
[14:53] <persia> Ah, OK.
[14:54] <persia> So then there *should* be an elementary-xfce package that doesn't include xubuntu-specific stuff if we want to share.
[14:54] <smartboyhw> persia, OK then
[14:54] <smartboyhw> PING knome 
[14:54] <persia> So that xubuntu-artwork and ubuntustudio-look could depend upon it.
[14:54] <persia> But this can only happen if there is consensus with the xubuntu team: if they need the current structure for some reason, we need a different icon theme.
[14:54] <smartboyhw> yeah
[14:54] <persia> (which could be a trivial fork, with just that logo changed)
[14:55] <persia> *or* we need a way to replace *just that file* in that package sanely, which may be possible with close coordination.
[14:55] <smartboyhw> persia, so "aren't being pulled by default" I just add xubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-icon-theme to "Replaces:" I think
[14:56] <persia> No, that's a seed-level thing.
[14:56] <smartboyhw> persia, uh 
[14:56] <persia> Better than Conflicts: is Breaks:+Replaces:, but first we have to know the right version numbers.
[14:56] <smartboyhw> Actually I rather ubuntustudio-look depends on ubuntustudio-icon-theme
[14:57] <persia> Who maintains that icon theme?  Do you have the extra time?
[14:57] <persia> Or do you mean as a lightweight package just providing the logo, and in turn depending on a shared theme?
[14:57] <smartboyhw> persia, 1. I am not even a member of the dev team 
[14:57] <smartboyhw> and 2. ubuntustudio-icon-theme is just a placeholder to depend on elementary-icon-theme
[14:58] <persia> I like -look depending on -icon-theme also, as long as -icon-theme stays without significant content.
[14:58] <persia> But I think we'll both do better to discuss this when the sun is on our side of the world :)
[14:58] <smartboyhw> persia, I think ubuntustudio-icon-theme is abolished... Can't seem to find it in the 12.10 live image manifest
[14:59] <smartboyhw> persia, the sun is NOT on my side of the world it is 11:00 PM
[14:59] <persia> rmadison says it's in the archive.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> persia, yeah tell me it is in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.10/release/ubuntustudio-12.10-dvd-amd64.manifest
[14:59] <persia> Right: that's why I suggested we continue the conversation later: I'm an hour east of you.
[14:59] <smartboyhw> persia, ah alright:D
[15:00] <knome> smartboyhw, what?
[15:00] <persia> I believe you it's not in the image: I'm just saying it's in the archive, so it's not gone, just not being used.
[15:01] <smartboyhw> knome, we still have that "Xubuntu image is used when auto-partitioning in ubiquity in Ubuntu Studio live image"
[15:01] <persia> knome: We're tired, but briefly, there are two packages providing distributor-logo on the ubuntustudio images, and so we'd like to have a plan to split the xubuntu-artwork package differently so that each flavour can ship a different logo and still share most of the rest of the icons.
[15:01] <smartboyhw> persia, :D
[15:02]  * smartboyhw is starting to not understand which package should he report a bug at
[15:02] <knome> smartboyhw, persia: you might want to talk with mr_pouit who knows more of the packaging
[15:03] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:03] <persia> We probably do.  WHat are best days/times to catch him?
[15:03] <knome> i'm not sure why ubuntu studio is directly depending on xubuntu artwork either; they do share some stuff and they base the work on our stuff, but it's still completely different
[15:03] <persia> Someone got lazy :)
[15:04] <smartboyhw> and the packages got hooked
[15:04] <knome> he's GMT+1
[15:04] <smartboyhw> knome, persia I found xubuntu-icon-theme in the 12.10 live image manifest
[15:04] <persia> Does he usually hang around days or evenings, his time?
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Now that's a problem
[15:04] <knome> persia, day/eveningish, not too late usually
[15:05] <persia> knome: Thanks.  We'll try to catch him then.
[15:06] <persia> smartboyhw: Ping me in the morning, and we'll track down precisely where the bug should be filed.  If we're lucky, we'll have a plan by the time mr_pouit shows up.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> persia, sorry I am only on at night. School for me
[15:06] <persia> Then when you're done with school.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> persia, ok
[15:06] <smartboyhw> holefully
[15:06] <persia> (Sundays too?  That's a lot of school!!!)
[15:06] <smartboyhw> persia, tmr I have a fencing competition:P
[15:07] <persia> Ah, good luck.
[15:07] <knome> persia, another person you might have some luck with too (though probably not how it's split) is micah
[15:08] <knome> persia, not sure the timezones work any better for you though
[15:08] <persia> Yeah, it's the precise nature of what is split where and why that needs explanation.  We can do email if timing doesn't work.
[15:08] <smartboyhw> Oops actually ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme and ubuntustudio-desktop depends on xubuntu-icon-theme
[15:09] <persia> knome: The key is to dig through and figure out what we want to share and what we want to have separate, and how the current package split matches that.  I expect we'll ask for a slightly different split, but I don't have enough information to be sure yet.
[15:09] <knome> persia, what's the actual problem for you? the icon theme?
[15:09]  * persia calls it a night
[15:09] <knome> oh right. sleep tight and see you later
[15:10] <persia> knome: The content of the icon cache at install time, at least.  Potentially a couple other namespace clashes, but I don't know enough to say for sure right now.
[15:10] <smartboyhw> yeah IDK why but then UbuntuStudio LightDm Theme depends on xubuntu-icon-theme
[15:10] <smartboyhw> Grr
[15:10] <knome> smartboyhw, probably because it needs some icons from it.
[15:11] <smartboyhw> knome, no I think. Maybe because of the wallpaper but then it is also included in ubuntustudio-look
[15:11] <knome> persia, right
[15:11] <knome> xubuntu-icon-theme doesn't have any wallpapers in it
[15:12] <knome> if the lightdm theme is ripped off of xubuntu, the top panel in lightdm has some icons, and i believe those are the reason why you are depending on the xubuntu icon theme
[15:13] <smartboyhw> knome, yeah maybe
[15:14] <smartboyhw> knome, not maybe now. It is true (from the changelogs)
[15:14] <smartboyhw> The icon theme and icon = Greybird
[15:14] <smartboyhw> so.....
[15:14] <knome> yes
[15:15] <smartboyhw> God this problem is so complicated 
[15:15] <knome> it is not.
[15:16] <smartboyhw> Anyways
[15:20] <smartboyhw> Bug reported:
[15:20] <smartboyhw> Bug 1077372
[15:58] <len-dt> smartboyhw, Just read the above. We need an icon theme anyway.
[15:58] <smartboyhw> len-dt, oh ok
[15:58] <smartboyhw> Let's create one then!
[15:58] <len-dt> We have a set of icons that are ours we need to put somewhere.
[15:58] <smartboyhw> OK
[15:58] <len-dt> we need to create some more icons yet too.
[15:59] <len-dt> this is something we started (just barely) last cycle.
[15:59] <smartboyhw> Oh?
[15:59] <len-dt> We have a number of menu items that are ours that are using other peoples icons.
[16:00] <len-dt> Those icons may vanish if we no loner use those packages or they change the name of those icons in future releases.
[16:02] <len-dt> There is a utility for making a default-settings package that helps setting up an icon theme (and other things which we should not use) That would probably be helpful.
[16:03] <smartboyhw> len-dt, where is that utilty?
[16:04] <len-dt> let me look...
[16:04] <len-dt> ubuntu-defaults-builder maybe?
[16:05] <smartboyhw> len-dt, we alerady have a -default-settings you want to overwrite the whole thing?
[16:05] <len-dt> No, tyhe idea would be to use it to create n icon theme in /usr/share/icons
[16:06] <smartboyhw> len-dt, that's another package...
[16:06] <len-dt> then just grab that directory and either create a new meta just for that or add it to look
[16:06] <smartboyhw> Ooh
[16:07] <len-dt> There is lots of stuff in there we don't want at all too.
[16:08] <len-dt> There is actually a package called ubuntustudio-icon-theme too... probably from 11.10
[16:09] <smartboyhw> len-dt, my suggestion: Copy the xubuntu-icon-theme package code, delete those Xubuntu images and replace them with ours, then release it as ubuntustudio-icon-theme, then add it to the meta, then (yes) ditch xubuntu-icon-theme from dependency of xubuntu-lightdm-theme and replace with ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
[16:09] <smartboyhw> len-dt, actually ubuntustudio-icon-theme isn't in the 12.10 live images
[16:10] <len-dt> No it would have been in 11.10 only as a transitional package.
[16:10] <smartboyhw> len-dt, yes as a transitional.
[16:10] <smartboyhw> So we need to rewrite the WHOLE thing
[16:11] <len-dt> There is also a package called icontool.
[16:11] <len-dt> I would not replace xubuntu package.
[16:12] <len-dt> At least not without looking at it.
[16:12] <len-dt> We depend on too many things from xubuntu that may change from release to release.
[16:13] <smartboyhw> len-dt, yeah we just replace those things that shouldn't be in our ISO (e.g. their distributor-logo, which caused ubiquity to produce a Xubuntu image during a Studio install)
[16:13] <len-dt> It is better to have our icon theme depend on theirs.
[16:13] <smartboyhw> len-dt, yes:D
[16:13] <len-dt> We don't have to "replace" icons, just add our own 
[16:14] <smartboyhw> len-dt, at least the distributor-logo.....
[16:14] <len-dt> The icon tree starts at one theme and looks till it finds a name if it doesn't it goes down one level and tries again.
[16:14] <len-dt> It finally ends up at hi-color which everything depends on.
[16:15] <len-dt> So what I am saying is that we do not need to remove anything from the xubuntu version, just add the same filename to ours and that is what will be used.
[16:15] <smartboyhw> yeah
[16:16] <smartboyhw> len-dt, so you are gonna work on it?
[16:16] <len-dt> Maybe that is a good thing for me to do. I have been sort of at loose ends as to what I wanted to work on.
[16:17] <smartboyhw> len-dt, :D
[16:17] <len-dt> I am not a good artist, but I can at least set up the frame work so that when we get good icons we can just drop them in.
[16:18]  * len-dt made the icon for the photography menu.
[16:18] <smartboyhw> len-dt, wow
[16:19] <smartboyhw> len-dt, I am gonna assign that bug to you then
[16:19] <len-dt> I will also do some work on dual headedness. I put a second video card into my system last night.
[16:19] <smartboyhw> Why must it BE a team????/
[16:20] <len-dt> No worries... punch in te bug number again?
[16:20] <smartboyhw> Bug 1077372
[16:20] <smartboyhw> And strangely Launchpad can't even search for the Ubuntu Studio dev team
[16:20] <smartboyhw> to be the assignee
[16:21] <len-dt> there refresh and be happy
[16:21]  * len-dt is now assigned
[16:21] <smartboyhw> len-dt, yeah
[16:21] <smartboyhw> len-dt, add an workitem to the blueprint so EVERYONE can see
[16:22] <len-dt> smartboyhw, The work item on the BP should be worded different.
[16:22] <len-dt> Something about creating a theme
[16:22] <len-dt> *icon theme
[16:22] <smartboyhw> len-dt, like "Create an icon theme for Ubuntu Studio:
[16:23] <len-dt> Ya, do you have a link handy for the PB?
[16:23] <smartboyhw> len-dt, no:P
[16:23] <smartboyhw> Wait though
[16:24] <smartboyhw> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-r-flavor-ubuntustudio
[16:24] <smartboyhw> Wait broken link
[16:24] <smartboyhw> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-raring-flavor-ubuntustudio
[16:24] <smartboyhw> This one:P
[16:25] <smartboyhw> len-dt, the second link
[16:26] <smartboyhw> BTW it seems zequence's account is still not merged:P
[16:26] <len-dt> No prob, I will put in artwork
[16:26] <smartboyhw> len-dt, :D
[16:27] <smartboyhw> Bye gotcha sleep (12:30 AM with fencing competition tmr)
[16:52] <zequence> ttoine: I went through the alternatives for editing the XFCE menu
[16:52] <zequence> ttoine: I found different tools for editing menus, but none for XFCE (at least recent ones)
[16:52] <zequence> ttoine: And, I added a new user doc paget about the Ubuntu Studio Desktop
[16:52] <knome> zequence, menulibre
[16:53] <zequence> knome: I checked it out
[16:53] <zequence> Same as all the others
[16:53] <knome> zequence, it is recent, but works with xfce well
[16:53] <zequence> It doesn't see the XFCE menu structure
[16:53] <zequence> Or, at least not the custom one
[16:53] <knome> zequence, maybe you don't have a specific configuration file attribute
[16:53] <knome> zequence, alacarte started working much better after that too
[16:54] <knome> zequence, you probably should talk with sean (bluesabre), he's the author
[16:54] <knome> zequence, we're migrating to that in 13.04 if at all possible
[16:54] <knome> zequence, (sean is also a xubuntu developer)
[16:54] <knome> anyway, g2g
[16:54] <knome> see you later
[16:56] <zequence> knome: Ok, thanks
[17:01] <zequence> ttoine: I saw you added some text on the whiteboard for user docs on HW support. There's a link to a page I created about this a few months back https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/SupportedHardware
[17:01] <zequence> ttoine: Please do check it out
[17:02] <zequence> ttoine: You'll notice a lot of what you suggest is on that page already
[17:03] <zequence> ttoine: It is named a "resource", as it is a possible example (or a bad example) on how to create the Hardware Support page
[17:07] <Len-nb> zequence, why would xfce be different in menuing?
[17:08] <Len-nb> alacarte works fine so far as it tries to.
[17:09] <Len-nb> But xfce uses the standard open desktop stuff. Alacart sees the right menu as defined by the session
[17:09] <Len-nb> It is just that users expect more...
[17:11] <zequence> Len-nb: I have no problem with alacarte. It's not a XFCE menu editor
[17:11] <zequence> You can use it to create starters
[17:11] <zequence> Not XFCE menus
[17:11] <Len-nb> But it doesn't have to be
[17:11] <zequence> Who said it had to be?
[17:11] <zequence> I only asked the question was there a XFCE menu editor around
[17:11] <Len-nb> It seems to make xfce menus ok
[17:11] <zequence> It doesn't do anything with the XFCE menu
[17:12] <Len-nb> xfce uses the open desktop standarde
[17:12] <zequence> Yes, for the .desktop files
[17:12] <Len-nb> for .menu files too
[17:13] <zequence> Len-nb: Ok, so if you know a way to edit the XFCE menu with an editor, please do tell.
[17:13] <Len-nb> alacarte creates a standard menu overlay in .config/menus
[17:13] <Len-nb> when xfce starts up it finds it there and merges it with the main menu
[17:14] <Len-nb> It is not there to create new menus, but the make a pathc to the system menu
[17:14] <Len-nb> *patch
[17:15] <Len-nb> the patch is merged real time
[17:15] <zequence> Len-nb: The XFCE menu won't see alacarte created menus
[17:15] <Len-nb> Works here
[17:15] <zequence> Len-nb: Menus that you created with alacarte?
[17:15] <Len-nb> Changes I did
[17:16] <Len-nb> It is not a menu creator, but a patcher
[17:16] <zequence> Len-nb: Again, the only question I had about this was if there was a menu editor for the XFCE menu
[17:16] <zequence> And I have so far not found one
[17:17] <zequence> What alacarte can do is to me besides that point
[17:17] <zequence> As long as it's not editing the XFCE menu, as you see it
[17:18] <Len-nb> Ok, if I start alacarte up and uncheck the phoyography menu. it goes away on the main menu for that user.
[17:19] <Len-nb> The xfce main menu for that user has been changed/edited.
[17:19] <zequence> Len-nb: I suspect there is something different about my user files, since I don't see a Photography section in alacarte
[17:20] <Len-nb> 12.10 or 12.04?
[17:20] <zequence> 12.10
[17:20] <zequence> I also have Gnome3 installed
[17:20] <Len-nb> let me go downstairs.
[17:21] <zequence> I really need to start keeping very clean Ubuntu Studio releases installed
[17:22] <len-dt> I acn see photography there too in 12.10
[17:22] <len-dt> *can
[17:22] <zequence> I don't see any of the XFCE menu items
[17:22] <zequence> And in the XFCE menu, I don't see some of the alacarte menus
[17:22] <len-dt> Even logged in an xfce session?
[17:23] <zequence> I need to recheck a couple of things while logged into XFCE, but to do this right, I'll do some VB installs
[17:23] <len-dt> alacart would create different menu patches for different sessions (I think).
[17:24] <zequence> Would be a smart practice to start keeping snapshots of the install. Be it virtual or not
[17:24] <len-dt> So alacarte would allow you to have a different menu for xfce sessions and gnome2 sessions for example.
[17:25] <len-dt> BRB
[17:25] <zequence> Len-nb: For the Ubuntu Studio icons, we should create a Ubuntu Studio icon theme that inherits the icon theme in use
[17:27] <len-dt> Just checked... on my 12.04 machine the change happened immediately, but on 12.10 I had to logout and in
[17:27] <len-dt> That may be because that is the first time I used alacarte on here though.
[17:30] <len-dt> I'm not happy with the "Restore System Configuration" button in alacarte though. It leaves a menu stub around.
[17:31] <len-dt> xfce4.10 behaves differently than 4.8
[17:32] <len-dt> zequence, it seems xfce4.10 does not reread the menu files every time the main menu is selected, xfce4.8 does.
[17:33] <len-dt> That is, since 12.10, after alacarte has been used to change a menu, the user must log out and then in to see changes.
[17:33] <len-dt> This probably makes the main menu response quicker.
[21:20] <len-dt> I think I will give up on using my old S3trio as a second video card. Xorg seems to have problems with it. The device driver doesn't initialize the card... it relies on the bios to do that at boot... which means my other card does not get initialized. A USB adaptor seems the way to go.
[21:47] <len-dt> Wow, looking at USB2VGA adaptors and actually see that the manufacture's page list Linux support. Wish the audio ones did too.
[23:05] <zequence> Len-nb: I guess you don't have PCI-E slots on that MB. Would only cost you something like 30$ to get a new card
[23:05] <zequence> ..I imagine
[23:58] <ttoine> zequence, I was just testing Sound Converter, and I see that the version in Ubuntu is old and bugged
[23:59] <ttoine> I did a bug report. but would it be possible to update with the current version (the project is on Launchpad) ?