[02:05] <shadeslayer> I'm not entirely sure how this is happening, but does anyone have kdelibs5 on their systems? kubuntu-desktop doesn't pull it in I think
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> kdelibs5 is a transitional package
[02:12] <JontheEchidna> or rather, it used to be. doesn't exist anymore
[05:00] <jlittle> over on KFN it's been suggested to drop in here to say thanks!  Kubuntu is fantastic, and really appreciated.
[05:38] <ScottK> jlittle: Thanks.
[09:46] <Martiini> 1. How do i delete all my submitted bugs on kde bugtracker? 2. how do i delete kde bugtracker account, please.  https://bugs.kde.org/userprefs.cgi
[09:53] <yofel_> Martiini: if that's possible someone in #kde-sysadmin should know how you can delete your account
[12:48] <apachelogger> rdieter: is that the thing that shows stuff via a kio slave that generates html?
[12:49] <apachelogger> oh yes, I find that totally scary, for reasons like connectDCOPSignal ^^
[12:49] <apachelogger> and the html one of course
[12:51] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug 1040259 actually breaks things?
[13:19] <apachelogger> ScottK, JontheEchidna, Riddell: thoughts on bug 1077538
[13:44]  * apachelogger thinks his kcm has too many frames :@
[13:44] <apachelogger> should have done it in qml, JontheEchidna was right after all -.-
[14:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ping
[15:14] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[15:43] <CQ> hello, I upgraded to quantal and can't log in, it jumps back to the login screen. Logging in on a console works fine, home is mounted... any ideas?
[15:44] <apachelogger> for support please use #kubuntu
[15:44] <CQ> Same thing happens with xfce and xubuntu-desktop and I"ve tried --reinstall'ing kdm and kubuntu-desktop
[15:44] <apachelogger> most likely something with your graphics driver is broken though, that behavior sounds like X is crashing
[15:44] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: pong
[15:44] <CQ> apachelogger: nobody answers there so I figured I'd try here before filing a bug
[15:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: now I forgot it all :P
[15:45] <CQ> the X logs show nothing weird though, I've looked there
[15:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: wouldn't it be better for kubuntu-notification-helper to actually use qapt rather than using qapt-batch?
[15:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also is there a way to track when qapt is doing stuff?
[15:46] <apachelogger> latter would be to prevent reboot notifications from popping up while stuff is still being installed
[15:46] <apachelogger> unless you have a better idea on how to achieve that
[15:46] <apachelogger> the update-notifier crap is somewhat underdocumented -.-
[15:46] <JontheEchidna> heh
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> So since k-n-h is a KDED module, it in theory should do as little as possible. That probably shouldn't include MMap-ing a 42 MiB cache file and spending 2-5 seconds (depending on how fast your computer is) building dependency caches
[15:48] <apachelogger> oh, that is a good point
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> delegating it to a detached process seems to be the proper way (tm) to do it
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> as for tracking
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> the best way would probably be to monitor the lock file in /var/lib/dpkg/
[15:51] <JontheEchidna> since a process installing something will hold that lock until they are finished
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> perhaps k-n-h should try to (briefly) grab it when it wants to do reboot notify, and only notify when it can grab it and release it
[15:52] <apachelogger> that sounds only remoetly spooky :P
[15:52] <JontheEchidna> welcome to 1998 :P
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> the good thing about that method is that it will work with anything using apt/dpkg, not just custom signals the qaptworker could emit
[15:54] <JontheEchidna> & also reboot notify stuff should probably get moved to the muon-notifier KDED
[15:54] <apachelogger> so should hooks then :P
[15:54] <apachelogger> they are part of the same 'spec'
[15:54] <apachelogger> also they are both in ubuntu's update-notifier thing
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> that actually only leaves k-n-h as a plugin installation notify thingy
[15:55] <apachelogger> incidentially that makes me then wonder whether the knh should remain a kded
[15:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: apport too
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah
[15:55] <apachelogger> although that one is broken beyond repair anyway
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> that silly thing
[15:55] <apachelogger> install could be a script though
[15:56] <apachelogger> as that is on-demand anyway
[15:56] <apachelogger> well script/tinyapp
[15:56] <JontheEchidna> in-GUI notifications (using KMessageWidget) would probably be better than popping up a tray icon/notification
[15:56] <apachelogger> obersavtion of the day
[15:56] <apachelogger> /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp is not actually touched when dpkg runs :P
[15:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: hm... would require some serious meta widgeting going on
[15:58] <apachelogger> even then you either patch that into kdecore or have to also patch cmakelists
[15:58] <apachelogger> :S
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> you'd have to patch each of the apps that wanted notifications for installing stuff to have a KMessageWidget in their main gui
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> so actually that's a bit invasive...
[15:58] <apachelogger> ~
[15:59] <apachelogger> ultimately it mostly amounts to KMW(visual parent)
[15:59] <apachelogger> most of the time visual parent is a layout, so you can hide most of the invasiveness
[16:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://paste.kde.org/603950/
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: reboot on kde major version change?
[16:08] <apachelogger> any upstream version
[16:08] <JontheEchidna> ah, k
[16:09] <apachelogger> IIRC bug 553182 was primarily about konqueror going all ninja on the user because it could not load the file plugin anymore in a minor update
[16:09] <apachelogger> minor/patch
[16:09] <apachelogger> (file plugin = file kio slave)
[16:09]  * apachelogger needs something to eat :O
[16:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: also I hope the muon notifier features better code
[16:10] <apachelogger> the module init code should have been refactored 3 times over
[16:10] <JontheEchidna> muon notifier is based on that Event class :P
[16:10] <apachelogger> line 8 of the patch being where it was made me go :'(
[16:11] <JontheEchidna> lol
[16:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well,my architecture is fine :P
[16:11] <apachelogger> only the implementation is spooky
[16:14] <apachelogger> also after having dealt with overload problems in phonon I'd not overload the event base functions/slots themselfs anymore but provide stubs that can be overloaded
[16:14] <apachelogger> the event functions ought to then call the stub
[16:15] <apachelogger> thus forcing the event code always to be executed prevent people from forgetting super::func
[16:15] <apachelogger> always fun to look at old code ^^
[16:15] <JontheEchidna> ^^
[16:16] <apachelogger> notify->setPixmap(KIcon(icon).pixmap(NOTIFICATION_ICON_SIZE));
[16:16] <apachelogger> knotification api is somewhat fail
[16:34] <apachelogger> oh now I forgot the lock file
[16:34] <apachelogger> meh
[16:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did I mention that we then need to keep checking?
[16:34] <freinhard> hi!
[16:35] <apachelogger> ahoy freinhard
[16:35] <freinhard> can one interface muon over dbus to trigger package installations?
[16:35] <freinhard> (easily?)
[16:36] <apachelogger> depends on whether it is a local deb file or not I think
[16:36] <freinhard> background: i once started a patch for kde-telepathy to install additional packages, but that one was depending on packagekit which kubuntu doesn't use
[16:37] <freinhard> no local file, something from an existing repository
[16:37] <apachelogger> IMHO it would be better to create a plugin infrastructure 
[16:38] <freinhard> were talking about packages like telepathy-gabble, telepathy-haze which are not part of kde-telepathy
[16:38] <apachelogger> well
[16:38] <apachelogger> freinhard: qapt-batch is your friend
[16:39] <freinhard> it's the same situation like with amarok: basic functionality is there but if you wan't to play mp3's install some more packages
[16:39] <apachelogger> I am still not sure this is a durable implemenation
[16:39] <freinhard> the one amarok uses?
[16:39] <apachelogger> nah, yours
[16:40] <apachelogger> then again I do not know the detaisl of your approach
[16:40] <apachelogger> but...
[16:40] <freinhard> at the moment there is none for kubuntu, i only did an proof of concept implementation for packagekit
[16:41] <apachelogger> phonon/gstreamer uses a distribution provided binary to install stuff, so it only calls gstreamer-codec-install with a well defined set of arguments and gstreamer-codec-install does all the distribution dependent work
[16:41] <freinhard> uah
[16:42] <freinhard> there should.. there needs to be a desktop standard
[16:42] <freinhard> thnks for the hint. i'll take a look at gstreamer-codec-install
[16:42] <apachelogger> freinhard: note that this is tricky to do on a global scale
[16:42] <apachelogger> foo in opensuse may be called bar in debian
[16:43] <freinhard> kate stays kate, kopete stays kopete. no need for a 100% solution if a simple one works for 99%
[16:44] <apachelogger> freinhard: systemsettings or system-settings? ;)
[16:45] <freinhard> packagers... ;)
[16:45] <apachelogger> just saying
[16:46] <freinhard> i know.. the other way would be to do it the microsoft way
[16:47] <freinhard> just install some kind of "standard" which, in that case, would be the package name for the distribution with the biggest userbase 
[16:47] <freinhard> so if some auto-install doesn't work, people can start yelling at the packagers of some distribution ;)
[16:48] <freinhard> or you use some magic with cmake and let the packager override some default package names
[16:49] <apachelogger> well, the up and coming trend is to map desktop files to packages
[16:49] <apachelogger> which makes sense given that most of the time you'd want to either install a service/plugin or another app
[16:49] <apachelogger> so that is a good enough solution for the important use cases
[16:50] <apachelogger> (of course that also does not work for gstreamer as codecs don't have desktop files though one could argue they should )
[16:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: update-notifier actually watches the apt cache, lib and dpkg lib dirs to detect activity Oo
[16:52] <apachelogger> really shitty
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> yup
[16:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I take it if the reboot stuff were to move to muon it'd be easier to check whether stuff is doing stuff?
[16:53] <JontheEchidna> muon-notifier is really just k-n-h with a different set of Event subclasses
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> so not really
[16:54] <apachelogger> meh
[16:54] <apachelogger> ohohoh
[16:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: don't you need to be root to lock the lockfile?
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[16:55] <apachelogger> no solution then
[16:55] <JontheEchidna> you could probably see if you could lock it with osstat?
[16:55] <apachelogger> unless we make a dbus helper :S
[16:55] <JontheEchidna> *os.stat
[16:55] <apachelogger> -rw-r----- 1 root root 0 Nov 11 17:25 /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[16:55] <apachelogger> you can't do anything with that file
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> aptdaemon has this fancy bit of pyth0rn to determine who holds the lock: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1351080/
[16:58] <apachelogger> hrrrhrr
[16:59] <apachelogger> to the hacking lab
[16:59]  * apachelogger wonders if one can kdirwatch that file
[17:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: looks fancier than it is :P
[17:17] <ScottK> apachelogger: re 1040259: Apparently if you're in Unity using Quassel the messaging stuff no longer works.
[17:17] <apachelogger> nice
[17:17] <apachelogger> post mortem seems appropriate :P
[17:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: doesn't help though, as I cannot open the file
[17:19] <ScottK> apachelogger: re 1077538, I think it's quite ugly as is and if it wouldn't be hard to make it nicer, it should be.
[17:19] <apachelogger> bug 1077538
[17:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: needs new strings though
[17:20]  * apachelogger notes that kdesudo probably should be refactored
[17:20] <apachelogger> really silly code at parts
[17:20] <apachelogger> like right after that kFatal there it runs exit(1) rather than qapp->exit()
[17:21] <ScottK> Right, but even if there's an nice box with an untranslated string, that's still better than a traceback.
[17:25] <apachelogger> users who don't speak english will go :? eitherway ;)
[17:25] <apachelogger> anywho, I guess I am saying .. I have no idea how kdesudo's l10n process works
[17:25] <ScottK> WIth a nice error box you can copy and paste the text into google translate.
[17:25] <apachelogger> *at all*
[17:25]  * ScottK neither.
[17:25] <apachelogger> also I have no clue why I have not moved it to kde
[17:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: why did I not force kdesudo onto kde infrastructure?
[17:26] <apachelogger> also the lock file business is a dead end
[17:26] <apachelogger> one needs to be able to open the file to check if it has locks
[17:27] <apachelogger> so either we also start watching every directory and the world or you need to make some nice thing in qapt
[17:27] <apachelogger> because really I only care about UI driven updates not triggering the reboot notification ^^
[17:27] <apachelogger> ScottK: you might want to review http://paste.kde.org/604016/ before I break raring
[17:28] <ScottK> Does postrm run on package upgrade?
[17:29] <apachelogger> yep
[17:29] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/604022/
[17:29] <apachelogger> from ppa2 to 3 that is
[17:30] <ScottK> OK.
[17:30] <ScottK> Next question: Since this is it's own trigger, can we have a different action to restart their session rather than a full reboot?  Reboot isn't actually required.
[17:30] <apachelogger> we can, that again requires a new string though
[17:31] <apachelogger> also somewhat excessive additions to kubuntu-notification-helper
[17:32] <ScottK> Yes, but I think it's a good point of differentiation from the competition.  One doesn't actually need to reboot.
[17:33] <apachelogger> primary issue is ... since we have no means to detect when a package manager is doing stuff we display the reboot notification when the trigger is touched, if we were to have a logout and a reboot we end up with both being displayed
[17:34] <ScottK> Also is a restart needed for point release changes, i.e. 4.9.2 -> 4.9.3 or is 4.8 -> 4.9 sufficient?
[17:34] <apachelogger> worst case kdelibs would get upgraded -> logout notification, dbus gets upgraded -> reboot notification
[17:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: all upstream changes
[17:34] <apachelogger> bug 553182 says so
[17:34] <ScottK> Right, so you'd have to make sure rebooting clears both the logout and reboot notifications.
[17:34] <ScottK> OK.
[17:35] <apachelogger> and IIRC it was about kio slaves become incompatible due to internal changes or something
[17:35] <ScottK> I see.
[17:35] <ScottK> Do you trust the bug reporter?
[17:35] <apachelogger> not really
[17:35] <apachelogger> but it sounds sane enough :P
[17:35] <ScottK> OK.
[17:36] <apachelogger> also regarding notification clearing ... if I am not mistaken you cannot clear notifications
[17:36] <apachelogger> tray icon wise it would work though
[17:36] <apachelogger> still a bit of a silly experience
[17:36] <ScottK> The reboot notification goes away when you reboot.
[17:36] <ScottK> Doesn't matter if you clicked on it or not.
[17:36] <apachelogger> nah I mean replace logout with reboot notification
[17:36] <apachelogger> once it becomes apparent that we need a reboot rather than a logout
[17:37] <apachelogger> as I said the UI experience there will not be sensible until we have found a way to detect when apt is actually done with doing stuff
[17:37] <apachelogger> then the helper just needs to evaluate which triggers are there and dispathc the appropiate notifications
[17:37] <ScottK> Right.
[17:38] <apachelogger> that however entirely depends on JontheEchidna giving me dbus api :P
[17:38] <ScottK> I'm sure JontheEchidna can tell you how to do that.  He's managed progress dialogues in Muon Updaters, so clearly he knows how to find 100%.
[17:38] <apachelogger> ^^
[17:39]  * apachelogger thinks we need a monochrome plasma theme version of the reboot icon
[17:39] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/11/11/plasma-desktopym2523.png
[17:39] <apachelogger> le ugly
[17:39] <ScottK> No.  I think the fact that's it's so visible is a feature.
[17:40] <apachelogger> can be achieved by more sensible means
[17:40] <ScottK> OK.
[17:40]  * ScottK will bbiab.
[17:41] <ScottK> Or maybe right now.
[17:42] <apachelogger> lol
[18:24] <apachelogger> http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Plasma/ThemeDetails#.22icons.22_folder
[18:24] <apachelogger> it's plasma because it is not working